What to expect in the Senate over the next four days in Amy Coney Barrett's confirmation

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What to expect in the Senate over the next four days in Amy Coney Barrett's confirmation

The Senate Judiciary Committee sent the Supreme Court nomination to the floor this week; Chad Pergram reports.

Oct. 22, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto” October 22, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  All right, well, you can cut the tension with something, because we are about five hours away now from the final face-off of this presidential campaign.

It was supposed to be three debates, down to two. And the candidates will get a chance to check out the facilities and maybe get a final bit of homework in for the big gathering tonight.

We are told as well that, even though these are going to be a sort of a cut-mic affair, just in case these guys get out of hand, that does not mean it will be that way throughout the entire debate. We will explain.

We're going to be looking at this from all sides with a candidate including who is not going to be part of this process. The Libertarian candidate, Jo Jorgensen, will be joining us. She said she should be there, if the Federal Election Commission thought well of it to put her on all 50 state ballots.

She has a question: why I am not at the debate. She wants to know.

Fair and balanced, we have got Senator Rob Portman, Republican senator who says that this is a big night for the president, but more, he says, for the American people. We will also hear from Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen on the Democrats' move today to boycott that crucial Senate Judiciary Committee vote on Judge Barrett.

They have no part of it. They don't want any part of it on next Monday's full Senate vote.

Then Ken Langone, one of the richest people on the planet, who says of Joe Biden targeting guys like him, even if he attacks us at 100 percent, you're not going to get diddly-squat in the long term.

So, all of that coming up.

Right now, let's get the latest from John Roberts, as we count down to the big debate.

Hey, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, good afternoon to you.

And breaking this hour, we have learned -- and we actually learned about this about 11:00 this morning, but out of respect for a source, was holding it until this hour -- learned that Tony Bobulinski, who is the former CEO of a company that Hunter Biden and Jim Biden were involved in, along with a partnership with a Chinese energy company, is going to be one of President Trump's special guests at tonight's debate, so that when the president brings up Hunter Biden's business dealings, he will be able to point to Tony Bobulinski and say to Joe Biden, here's your former business partner, Tony Bobulinski.

Now, where does all of this stem from? This stems from an e-mail that came out of that laptop that was allegedly left at a computer repair shop in Wilmington, Delaware, by Hunter Biden, an e-mail that broke down what the percentage distribution would be of a $10 million deal with this Chinese energy company.

Ten percent of that money was designated to somebody known as the big guy.

In a statement to FOX News earlier today, Tony Bobulinski saying -- quote -

- "The reference to the big guy in the much publicized May 13, 2017, e-mail is, in fact, a reference to Joe Biden. Hunter Biden called his dad the big guy or my chairman and frequently referenced asking him for his sign-up or advice on various potential deals that we were discussing."

There's been all sorts of criticism and questioning by Republicans as to why Hunter Biden was cutting these big deals with energy companies in China, as well as Ukraine, because he didn't have any experience in the energy sector. And was he, in fact, selling influence?

Bobulinski suggests it was the latter and not the former, in his statement saying -- quote -- "I realized the Chinese were not really focused on a healthy financial return on investment. They were looking at this as a political or influence investment."

The Biden campaign not denying any of this, calling it a smear campaign, though, and in a campaign conference called, Kate Bedingfield, the deputy campaign manager, saying -- quote -- "We expect that Trump will attack Biden and his family. And every time he does that, all he's doing is reinforcing what we have said all along. He is acknowledging that he has no case for a second term."

But, again, not denying that all of this is true. The president has suggested that a special prosecutor should be appointed to look into Hunter Biden's business dealings and what, if anything, Joe Biden knew about them.

On that point, he got concurrence today from Missouri Senator Josh Hawley.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO):  Well, I do think a special prosecutor is absolutely appropriate.

This is the former vice president who may be involved in a money laundering scheme. This -- you have got e-mails now. It looks like he's getting kickbacks, Joe Biden getting kickbacks from China.

I mean, the American people deserve some answers here, and he needs to be asked about it at tonight's debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS:  Again, he will be asked about it in tonight's debate.

Again, Tony Bobulinski, the former CEO of the company that Hunter Biden was involved in, will be in the audience tonight.

But the president, Neil, is going to need more than just attacks against Hunter Biden if he hopes to win tonight's debate, because there's going to be a lot of pointed questioning as well on things like bread-and-butter issues, coronavirus, foreign policy, a lot of things to chew over this evening.

So this should be a pretty interesting tete-a-tete -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  To put it mildly.

All right, John Roberts, thank you very, very much.

In the meantime, you might have missed this, but Judge Amy Barrett cleared the Senate Judiciary Committee today on her way to full Senate confirmation, expected next Monday.

There was a little wrinkle here. And it's a historic one, at that.

Democrats boycotted the event, not a single Democrat there for the committee vote. All Democrats are being urged right now not to show up for the vote on Monday.

This would be the first time in American history we have seen something like this.

Chad Pergram with the latest -- Chad.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  Good afternoon, Neil.

Well, this is the first step to get this nominee, Amy Coney Barrett, on the Senate floor. The committee voted today to give her a favorable recommendation to report her nomination to the Senate floor, as you say Democrats boycotted that meeting today. They did not vote.

They argued that Republicans broke committee rules. They say that you have to have at least two Democrats there. Lindsey Graham, the chair of the committee. disagreed.

Here is Republican Senator Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX):  The boycott today, frankly, is a stunt to appease the left-wing activist base that's angry. They're angry that the Democrats are not able to stop this nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM:  Now, the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, he ripped his counterpart, the majority leader, Mitch McConnell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY):  McConnell is angry. Why? Because we Democrats have exposed that he has defiled the Senate as an institution more than any person in this generation and many generations, because we Democrats have exposed the hypocrisy of holding up Merrick Garland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM:  Here's the timetable.

The Senate must wait until Friday before putting the nomination on the floor. The Senate meets all weekend debating the nomination. There will be a procedural vote on Sunday afternoon to cut off a filibuster. That needs

51 yeas.

Then Barrett opponents are allowed to burn 30 more hours on the clock. That sets up a confirmation vote sometime on Monday night.

Now, also today, in the Judiciary Committee, the committee authorized subpoenas for big tech executives, Jack Dorsey of Twitter, also Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook. There are questions about how their firms curbed sharing the New York Post article regarding Hunter Biden -- back to you, Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, thank you, my friend, very much, Chad Pergram on all of this.

Let's go to Senator Rob Portman of Ohio, the Senate Finance, Homeland Security, Government Affairs, Foreign Relations committees, busy guy.

SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH):  Hey, Neil.

CAVUTO:  Senator, we do know right now that the president has as a crucial guest at that debate this Tony Bobulinski, this former Hunter Biden business partner.

That means he's obviously going to bring up these Biden e-mails of business dealings. Do you think that's a proper strategy? Some are worried in your party, Senator, that he's going to get sidetracked on this.

PORTMAN:  Well, I think you can walk and chew gum at the same time. In other words, these are obviously legitimate concerns that should be raised.

But you know what? John Roberts talking about bread-and-butter issues.

That's what I think the undecided voter really wants to hear about. I think that will be much more effective.

And the president's got a great message on that, because the economy going into COVID was incredible, not just in terms of the macroeconomic growth, but what it was doing to lift up people, give more people opportunity, close the wage gap, reduce the poverty rate to historic levels, lowest unemployment level for many, many decades for many groups that have been left out of the economic progress in the previous administration.

So, look, he's got a great story to tell about the economy. And it's a very simple one:  I did it before. I can do it again.

Let's not go to higher taxes and more regulations and trying to stop from using our energy in this country, because those are the things that created all this growth.

CAVUTO:  But, Senator, what if he does not -- what if he does not do that, and, in fact, spends a good deal of time on this Biden e-mail, business ties to Ukraine thing, maybe for quite legitimate reasons? He's infuriated about it, that the media has largely ignored it. I get that.

But the more time he spends on that, the less time he's spending on the issues that you just mentioned.

PORTMAN:  Well, I agree.

And look, ideally, Neil, the press would be asking Joe Biden about this, right? So, ideally, the moderator would be posing tough questions to Joe Biden, just as they have posed to President Trump, and he would have to respond, and that would be the appropriate way to get at it. But the issue has to come up.

My point is that I think the more important issue, frankly, to all Americans, but particularly to those voters who are yet undecided -- and it's not a big group, but there are some out there -- is the economy, one, and, two, the COVID response.

And I think the president has a good response to both. And he ought to be sure that people hear it.

With regard to the economy, I think it's particularly strong because of what Vice President Biden would want to do with the economy. In other words, he wants to do all the things that are going to make it harder for people to get ahead.

And the Trump economy going into the COVID-19, again, was really impressive, particularly for lower- and middle-income workers, and for families that have been struggling for years that had gotten back into the work force and seen higher wages and better benefits.

So, it's a good story. I mean, you have seen the story. You have looked at the new census data, I'm sure, and the new data from the Federal Reserve, along with the Labor Department data. It was really, truly an opportunity economy.

And that's what the president ought to talk about.

CAVUTO:  Do you think the stimulus thing should come up?

It looks like it's dead right now. I could be wrong. But, obviously, the Senate, through parliamentary measures, didn't get the 60 votes it needed to keep pushing this half-trillion-dollar package. They might be close to something in the House. We're told that has zero interest in the Senate.

Is it safe to say, Senator, that we are not going to see stimulus before the election, that's done, dead?

PORTMAN:  Well, it's now hard to imagine.

But I think that the biggest reason we're not going to see it is, I think that the speaker of the House is not willing to be flexible. And she's shown that repeatedly.

So, poor Steve Mnuchin. He's done everything he can to try to come up with an agreement here. The president wants an agreement. The president has said that repeatedly, publicly and privately.

But I think Democrats feel as though an agreement before the election is not in their interest. It's too bad, because we're not out of the woods yet, either on the economy or on the COVID-19 crisis. And we should be passing legislation.

We had a vote in the Senate yesterday that was incredible. It was a targeted package that had, frankly, mostly bipartisan measures in it to provide more money for schools...

CAVUTO:  All right.

PORTMAN:  ... to provide more money from the vaccine, to help with small businesses, PPP.

And Democrats refused even to get on the legislation to debate it. So, I mean, I -- that says it all. And I hope that we will be able to get to it before the election, but I don't see how it happens, when Democrats seem unwilling, especially Speaker Pelosi, to move that bill forward.

Right after the election, I think you will see a change of heart.

CAVUTO:  All right, we will see. We will see.

You should hear -- you should hear what they're saying about you. You wouldn't believe it.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  Senator Rob Portman, thank you very, very much.

PORTMAN:  Well, there it is. Look at the legislation. It's very bipartisan.

CAVUTO:  We will look at it. We will look at it. We will look at it.

PORTMAN:  It's very bipartisan.

CAVUTO:  Want to be fair to everybody.

I'm going to talk to your counterpart Chris Van Hollen, a Democrat, here on how he sees Democrats handling this issue, and this unusual boycott of today's vote on the part of Democrats for Judge Amy Barrett. They're promising to do the same when it goes to a full Senate vote.

We're on that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, to look at the polls, it's getting tight in some of the battleground states.

But to look at a single issue, like the economy, the president seems to have a sweeping advantage, not everywhere, but in a lot of those battleground states.

Ken Langone joins us right now, the Home Depot co-founder, who is not surprised by that.

But, Ken, always great having you.

The president so far isn't benefiting in a lot of these battleground polls.

So, while Americans seem to trust him more on the economy, depending on the state, they're not rewarding him.

Do you think something isn't connecting here?

KEN LANGONE, CO-FOUNDER, HOME DEPOT:  No, Neil, I think we have to be realistic about what the polls are saying.

I think there's a significant percentage of people that, for whatever reason, don't want to let people know where they are and where they're going to vote, how they're going to vote. And I think that's a big number out there.

The other thing, Neil, is, let's be honest. Look at the unemployment rate today, in the middle of this pandemic, and go back to 2008, when it was 10 percent. It's 7.4 now or 7.6 now, whatever it is. The point is, this economy, I believe, is performing dramatically well, in spite of the challenges that are -- we're being confronted with.

Look at the hotel sector, the entertainment sector. Go look right down the list at all these major industries, restaurants. Broadway is shot. New York. New York is in terrible shape.

But the fact is, overall, the numbers are pretty good. You know, we're not where we want to be, but I...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  So, if you were advising -- Ken, if you were advising the president, if you were advising the president, Ken, he is itching to look into these Biden e-mails. He's going to have this Tony Bobulinski, the former Hunter Biden business partner from the Ukraine.

He wants to force that issue, because he says the general media is not.

Some Republicans understand his anxiety over this and his fury that it hasn't had more traction, but they're concerned that he's going to miss out on a chance to mention the pickup in the economy and stuff you just did.

Do you agree with that?

LANGONE:  Neil, I'm not -- I'm not a politician, not a professional.

I know this, Neil, that it would seem to me that, with the accusations and the e-mails that are floating around this whole thing, we know that Hunter Biden got $3.5 million from the widow of the mayor of Russia. Why? Tell me why.

We know he got all that money from Burisma. He got a billion-and-a-half dollars for a hedge fund from China when he flew over with his father.

Look, Neil, let's understand something. The biggest skin in the game in this whole thing right now is the media. The media has thrown everything they can at Trump these last four years, three-and-a-half years.

First of all, he won the election. If Trump wins this election, for all intents and purposes -- and the media knows this -- the media is neutered in America, neutered. Why? Because, if they couldn't take it away from him with all they have done to him -- the willful effort on the part of the media not to give any press at all to this Hunter Biden situation, and this

-- and the -- and this computer, this -- whatever the fellow had down in Delaware, this is nuts.

This is a big story, and whether it's true or not, but the fact of the matter is...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  So, you would think it's a good idea for him to go ahead and mention, right?

If Ken Langone were advising Donald Trump, go ahead and mention it, sir, right?

LANGONE:  I would certainly ask the former vice president of the United States to explain, as best he can, his involvement...

CAVUTO:  All right.

LANGONE:  ... because these e-mails indicate he was involved directly.

The man thanked Hunter Biden in the introduction in meeting his father. I mean, this is serious stuff, Neil. This is serious stuff.

CAVUTO:  Now, let me ask you about this. We're so limited for time, Ken. I apologize.

But I did want to get your thoughts on something you expounded on not too long ago, Joe Biden's quest right now to tax guys like you, limiting it to just the $400,000-and-over crowd, and that, A, you can afford it, and you should be paying your fair share, and that will take care of a lot of the planned spending he's looking at that could amount to trillions of dollars over the next 10 years, only going after guys like you.

What do you say to that?

LANGONE:  Neil, that's nonsense.

The big numbers are in the middle-income people, middle-income people.

Therefore, the big numbers -- you can tax all of us what they call fat cats as much as you want. You don't move -- this is -- we're talking about trillions of dollars, not millions, not hundreds of millions, not billions, trillions of dollars.

You aren't going to move the needle at all, Neil. You know it and I know it and everybody knows it. The revenues come from the middle-income people.

That's where it comes from.

And that's -- unfortunately, if these people think they're not going to be touched, they're fooling themselves. I'm going to pay more taxes. I have no trouble paying more taxes.

Where is the courage of our leaders to take Social Security away from me?

What the hell am I doing getting Social Security? I don't need it, and I shouldn't have it. So why give it to me? They haven't even got the guts to do -- both parties, both of them.

Change the Social -- I didn't pay into this thing. I have benefited by this great country in more ways than I can imagine. Take it away from me. Take it away from everybody like me. Take it away from everybody making 400 grand a year or more.

You're still not going to move the needle, Neil. It's foolish.

CAVUTO:  Ken, we're just seeing -- Ken, we're just seeing Joe Biden's plane is arriving right now in Nashville, the site of the debate tonight.

I'm just wondering. President Trump has said that, if Joe Biden wins, you can kiss your 401(k) goodbye, there will be a market crash, it'll be devastating for the economy.

Real quickly, do you agree?

LANGONE:  I agree to the following, Neil.

In the condition the economy is in coming out of this terrible pandemic, the last thing in the world you want to do is raise taxes. If you want to exclusively do it to wealthy, wealthy people, that's fine.

But you aren't going to do anything effectively if you don't go get the middle-income people as well. That's too bad, but that's the facts. Those are the -- work the numbers. You will create a serious recession in America if you laden on the American people tax increases at a point in time when it's just recovering from one of the biggest challenges it's had in the last hundred years.

That's what I would tell Joe Biden.

CAVUTO:  Ken Langone, thank you very, very much.

LANGONE:  It's terribly destructive.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  And continued good health.

All right, I got it. Ken, thank you very much.

Apologize for the rudeness there and the time delay, but I did want to get a lot in with Ken.

Joe Biden has now arrived in Nashville, the scene of tonight's debate, speaking of which, FBN, FOX Business Network, which, if you don't get, you should demand, if you do have it, you should be happy, because, beginning at 8:00 p.m. tonight, we will be doing a bit of a pregamer on this.

The debate itself kicks off at 9:00, the only place you can get concurrently not only how foreign markets are responding, but our own futures market here.

It's all going to be on FOX Business, one-two punch, only on FBN.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, the podiums are set up right now in Nashville.

There's one missing, though. And Jo Jorgensen wonders why she's not there.

She's the 2020 Libertarian Party candidate. She's on all 50 state ballots.

She wants to be there.

She's coming up here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, well, the candidates are there, nearly there. We just saw Joe Biden's plane come in a little while ago.

Crucial for the debate tonight is really how sentiment is going on all of this right now. The president has made gains in Ohio. Joe Biden has gains of various sizes going on in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.

He could flip a state like Minnesota that he barely lost last time to make up for those losses, if they were to materialize.

Susan Ferrechio joins us right now of The Washington Examiner.

How much do you think, Susan, tonight will change things? I only ask because I think we're at close to, what, 43 million mail-in ballots already. That means millions more have just not made it to precincts to be counted.

But it also means that a lot of people have made up their minds. And when we look at general polls, those undecided, the tiniest sliver of such voters we have seen in recorded history. So, will this change the game tonight? What do you think?

SUSAN FERRECHIO, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER:  Depends how close the election is.

Those undecided voters right now, the people who haven't voted yet, could be extremely critical in some of these battleground states. And you see in the poll that came out yesterday that FOX put out, you see some bright moments there for President Trump. He's improved in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from the last round of polling.

And he's also doing better in Ohio, which is really important as well. So, it seems like there is movement in Trump's favor that he could seize on tonight at the debate by trying to reach out to this very small group of voters who hasn't voted yet.

And the issue I think that's paramount to them is handling of the coronavirus, if he can talk about that in a convincing manner, to show what he's done so far and about what he can is going to continue to do to kind of show himself as in command there, because he does poorly on that in the polls.

He does OK on the economy. He beats Joe Biden on that generally in these battleground states. But he needs to stay on message with that, very critical. For him, it shouldn't just be another debate where the two are interrupting each other so much that the voter doesn't get any message from the president.

So he's going to have to try to navigate that carefully, even though it seems very clear he wants to bring up the Hunter Biden situation with Vice President Joe Biden, which is completely understandable, because the media has basically ignored the entire story.

So he's going to feel compelled to bring it up, if the moderator doesn't bring it up. And a lot of people think that the moderator won't bring it up.

CAVUTO:  All right, so the president obviously will want to mention that.

Joe Biden, of course, has dismissed this story, as we see him arriving in Nashville.

I'm just curious. A little bit on this thing is what the president wants.

Some are afraid that he will -- he might go overboard, he might make this dominant part, or try to, of the debate.

Do you think that would be a mistake, that he has some other compelling issues that maybe the American people care about more? What do you think?

FERRECHIO:  Well, yes, just based on the polling.

It's going to be very hard in those battleground states. Let's face it, it's all going to boil down to those battlegrounds. That's where the election hinges on. He's got to reach those voters.

If they're all worried about coronavirus and their jobs and their health, Hunter Biden's laptops will frustrate them if that dominates the entire debate. His base is all over that story, but he already has their support.

So he needs to be strategic.

And he needs to think about what he needs to do to win over the people he needs to win to get where -- get across the finish line. I agree with your previous guest. I think we need to be wary of polls missing the hidden Trump voter. I think that was a big -- obviously, a big theme in 2016.

I think it actually, Neil, could end up being potentially a bigger theme in this 2020 election, just because of the backlash against the president.

People may be even more afraid or more hesitant to say who they're voting for, given how the country is so divided.

So, with that in mind, there's an opportunity for the president that he needs to keep in mind this is the chance to reach those voters. Same for Biden. He needs to hold the line. He's going to have to answer to Biden -- to Trump, if the moderate doesn't bring it up, how he's going to respond to that about his own son.

That's also important. There are Democrats who want answers to that story as well. And he needs to be -- he needs to navigate that very carefully.

The president letting Biden talk, that was your original strategy, because I think Biden tends to ramble on a little bit and sound less coherent as he answers a long question.

So, if Biden just -- if he just lets Biden talk, that may give more doubt to some of the undivided -- undecided voters about whether Biden's really ready for the task.

CAVUTO:  All right.

Susan, thank you very much. I know what you mean by getting older and getting rambling and incoherent. Story of my life, Susan.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  But thank you very much. Good seeing you again, Susan Ferrechio of The Washington Examiner.

We told you a little bit about the dust-up in the Senate right now on this Amy Barrett nomination, that Democratic senators were boycotting the Judiciary Committee vote. They're expected to do the same on Monday, when it -- her nomination goes up before the full Senate.

Chris Van Hollen, the Democrat of Maryland, on what he makes of that and why he says Democrats are doing that -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  Well, we have never seen anything like it in American history.

We have had close nomination battles before for an approaching or appointed Supreme Court associate justice, but, in the case of Judge Barrett, never has the opposition party just not opted to vote at all.

That was the case today in the Judiciary Committee, where it was all Republican signing off on her nomination to take Ruth Bader Ginsburg's place on the highest court in the land, setting up a stage where the whole Senate vote, which comes Monday, will go the same way, only Republicans voting on her, not a single Democrat.

Chris Van Hollen joins us right now on this. He's a Democrat of the beautiful state of Maryland.

Senator, are you afraid of the message that might be sending here? She's going to make it to the Supreme Court, and not a single Democrat will be involved in the process, yea or nay.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD):  Neil, no, I'm not, because this is also the first time in American history that a Supreme Court justice nominee has been rammed through or attempted to be rammed through the United States Senate this close to the election. That's never happened before.

And, of course, that comes after...

CAVUTO:  Well, maybe this close -- maybe this close to the election.

But, certainly, it's not unprecedented that we have in an election year.

VAN HOLLEN:  It's...

CAVUTO:  Is this really just a return to the favor of the way Merrick Garland was treated, and a tit for tat on that?

VAN HOLLEN:  As you know, Neil, a majority of Americans agree with the position that Senate Democrats have taken.

We have had 30 million Americans already vote in the presidential election.

We should wait until we have a newly elected president, who then can make the nomination.

That is exactly the rule that Senator McConnell and Lindsey Graham themselves laid down when Barack Obama was president back in 2016, much earlier in the year.

And so they need to apply the same rules.

CAVUTO:  But, Senator, if Democrats were -- no, I understand where you're coming from.

But if Democrats were in the exact same position in a situation like this, where they held the Senate, and the White House was under a different party, how would that be pursued?

VAN HOLLEN:  Well, Neil, as you know, the Democrats did object when Mitch McConnell blocked it much earlier in the year.

But once you establish a precedent, you need to apply that precedent equally. Otherwise, what you're doing is effectively jamming the court.

You're effectively packing the court through this illegitimate process, one process that you apply to Democratic presidents...

CAVUTO:  So, you mentioned packing the court, Senator.

That's the fear that some have, and maybe that the Republicans have raised, that, if you get the majority in the Senate or run the table, and Joe Biden wins, that's what you're going to pursue, that you won't let Republicans enjoy this day, they will rue the day they did this, and the return would be to pack the court.

Are you for packing the Supreme Court?

VAN HOLLEN:  Well, Neil, let's make no mistake. What Republicans in the Senate are doing now is packing the court by changing the rules in the United States Senate, again, one for Democrats, one...

CAVUTO:  No, I understand where you're coming from on that. We can agree or disagree with that.

VAN HOLLEN:  So, my view, I...

CAVUTO:  But are you, would you be for that?

VAN HOLLEN:  My view is that, after the election, depending on how this all turns out, we should review the entire process.

Look, Joe Biden, the vice president, just said today that what we should do is establish a bipartisan commission to look at this, because you should not allow the abuse of power to determine the balance of the court.

I think most Americans agree with that, that we shouldn't allow this to be purely a matter of chance and the issue of applying different rules to different presidents.

And so my view is, yes, we need to take a look at how we need to make sure that we have a balanced court. And that's exactly what Vice President Biden has done. And, as he said, he wants to put forward a bipartisan commission to take a look at it.

CAVUTO:  Real quickly, earlier on, I had Rob Portman of Ohio on, your colleague from Ohio, a Republican, who says that stimulus is dead, and it's going to be on Democrats.

What do you think of that?

VAN HOLLEN:  Well, that's interesting, because, just this Tuesday, Democrats tried to get a vote in the United States Senate on the second package the House has sent out, the HEROES Act 2.

And, as you well know, there have been ongoing discussions between the Trump administration and Speaker Pelosi. And they have gotten kind of close. They haven't finished them up.

But who threw the grenade into all of that? It was Senate Republicans. It was Mitch McConnell. I mean, we all know that he has told the Trump administration, don't you dare come up with a big, comprehensive plan, because we don't want that in the United States Senate.

When we say we, Senate Republicans don't want it.

Mitch McConnell has been very clear about that. So, it's interesting that Senator Portman, as one of senator -- colleagues -- his -- McConnell's colleagues, would try and give him cover, when McConnell's fingerprints are all over the death of this emergency package.

CAVUTO:  The president apparently, real quickly, Senator, is going to force this Ukrainian and the e-mail exchange issue over Hunter Biden with this Tony Bobulinski, the former Hunter Biden business partner on the Ukraine, that he is going to mention it, he is going to pound it.

Do you think he should? And do you think Joe Biden should respond? There are some curious developments here. Do they warrant attention tonight?

VAN HOLLEN:  You know, Neil, I think we're in the middle of a pandemic;

220,000 Americans have died. Millions others are suffering from the economic pain and fallout. That's why we have been pushing for a vote in the Senate on the HEROES 2 legislation.

I don't think the American people are going to have much patience for Donald Trump, the president, launching an attack against the vice president's son and family members.

Everybody who's looked into this -- and you can be sure lots of people have

-- have found that there's no there there.

We just learned that the intelligence community warned the White House that the Russians have targeted Rudy Giuliani as part of one of their intelligence operations.

CAVUTO:  All right.

VAN HOLLEN:  So, I think the president would do the country a favor if he stays away from it.

But I -- apparently, he can't resist.

CAVUTO:  We will see what happens.

Senator Chris Van Hollen, very good talking with you, sir. Appreciate it.

VAN HOLLEN:  Good to be with you.

CAVUTO:  The debate is to, the point here, tonight, and a lot of questions asked, including one person who won't be there, the Libertarian candidate for president of the United States.

She's on the ballot in all 50 states, good enough for the Federal Election Commission, not good enough for debate organizers, who have excluded her.

She is here, though, and she's upset -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  Joe Biden has arrived in Nashville.

And now we know without a doubt that he knows that this whole Ukrainian e- mail issue regarding his son Hunter Biden, it's going to come up. In fact, the business partner that Hunter Biden was dealing with is going to be there.

Peter Doocy has more.

Hey, Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, Joe Biden and Jill Biden are on the ground here in Nashville. They landed about 15 minutes ago at the International Airport, and they're making their way here for a walk- through.

And before Joe Biden even left Delaware, he was trying to get Donald Trump to stay within the lines tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  We will have plenty of time to talk when this is over, OK?

So, hopefully, he's going to play by the rules. Hopefully, everybody's been tested. Hopefully, it's all worked out, just the way the rules are. I'm looking forward to this.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY:  Biden hasn't done anything outside the house since midafternoon Monday, as he preps for tonight's debate, which senior staffers believe will focus on things President Trump could bring up, so that he doesn't have to speak so much about his response to the coronavirus pandemic, like Hunter Biden.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER:  We expect that Trump will attack Biden and his family.

And every time he does that, all he's doing is reinforcing what we have said all along. He is acknowledging that he has no case for a second term.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DOOCY:  The Biden campaign tells us he tested negative for coronavirus this morning. So, that is something that they did to send him on out of the house.

And I can hear the motorcade. I can see a bunch of people with their phones out. We think he is here now for that walk-through -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  He knows it's going to come up. Do we know whether he's got a strategy for it, assuming the moderator doesn't bring it up, and the president does?

DOOCY:  Right.

And we saw on the debate stage last time, and I have seen on the campaign trail throughout the primaries it is something where, no matter who brings it up, he answers in a very animated way.

So, whether or not Kristen Welker decides to go there or if it is upon Donald Trump to bring it up if he wants to talk about it, expect a response with a higher volume than if they're talking about something like the Green New Deal -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, Peter, thank you very, very much.

So, it will be Joe Biden vs. Donald Trump.

What it will not be is a third candidate on all ballots across the country, on all 50 state ballots. I'm talking about the 2020 Libertarian candidate, the first time we have seen a woman receive the Libertarian nomination, joins us right now, Jo Jorgensen.

Professor Jorgensen, very good to have you.

You're not there. How do you feel about that?

JO JORGENSEN, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Well, I'm more concerned about the American voter than the Libertarian Party, because I would be the only alternative for people to see.

We keep hearing, it's two old rich white guys, but that's the least of it.

The biggest problem is, they both want to spend our money, they both want to make our decisions, neither one has an answer to the crushing health care problems, and neither one is going to bring the troops home.

So, I can see why they don't want me on stage.

CAVUTO:  You know, you did reach the qualifications of the FEC, the Federal Election Commission, with 5 percent of the vote, to be on all 50 state ballots.

But the debates require you to be polling at 15 percent, so good enough for the FEC, not good enough for the Debate Commission.

JORGENSEN:  Well...

CAVUTO:  Are you angry at the commission?

JORGENSEN:  Well, but let me interrupt you there. I wasn't even included on the polls that I needed to score at 15 percent.

I think what happened was, last time, Gary Johnson got to 13.6 percent, and they thought, that's dangerously close, so, this year, let's not even put her in the polls.

Now, of course, I'm on some polls, but not the polls needed to get into the debate. So, it was impossible from the start for me to be on the debate stage.

CAVUTO:  All right, now, you have an eclectic background. You're a successful businesswoman, an entrepreneur. You are a lecturer at Clemson University.

I should fully disclose, you teach my son. He attends your class, your psychology class.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  So, I don't know how that's going to go. We will see how that goes, but want to get that all out there.

But let me ask you, though, Professor.

And the battle of third-party candidates has always been that they simply take away from one or the other main candidates. I know you said that that's not the case. But we have seen examples, in certain battleground states, where people like a Ralph Nader in the past move votes that otherwise would have gone, let's say, to Al Gore in that year, and do make a difference that way, but that's about the best they can hope for.

What do you say?

JORGENSEN:  Well, what I say is, I hope I can make a change.

And people have asked me about being a spoiler. And the only way I could be a spoiler is if the other two weren't doing their jobs. President Trump came in. He said:  I'm an outsider. I'm a businessman. I know how to balance the budget. I'm going to cut the deficit and the debt.

And he's done none of that. In fact, we have seen the debt go up higher than under Obama. So, had he done what he said he was going to do, then he wouldn't have to worry about me.

CAVUTO:  Let's talk about a couple -- where you stand on some of the key issues.

True to Libertarian thinking, you really are against over-government involvement or pushing their thumb on the will and the freedom of people.

But you raised some concerns when that included your opposition to lockdowns and even vaccine mandates. Are you saying, on the vaccine mandate issue, that, if one were to come up to deal with COVID-19, you don't think people should take it, or what did you mean by that?

JORGENSEN:  Well, I'm saying it should be up to the choice of the individual.

Now, let me mention, I vaccinated my children when they were young, and my daughter has vaccinated her son. However, if other people don't choose vaccinations, then they shouldn't be forced to by the government.

And a lot of things that Libertarians talk about, how we should be allowed to use any type of drug, including marijuana, that we should be able to gamble, or people should be able to engage in sex work, those are all things that the government is keeping us from doing.

But to have a discussion about the government forcibly putting something into our body is egregious. And I'm surprised it's even going on in a supposed free country. I mean, I'm surprised we're even having the discussion of having something forced into our bodies.

CAVUTO:  But should that be mandated in schools? There are stories, as you know, Professor where parents opt not to give their kids vaccinations which would help them, which would deal with everything from the flu to a host of other things.

I mean, it's one thing to leave it up to parents, but if parents don't want to do that, and it endangers the child's welfare, is that a step too far?

JORGENSEN:  And this is exactly the difference between Libertarians and the other two parties.

The other two parties gives us a one-size-fits-all. So, let's say I want vaccines, and my neighbor doesn't. We each have to pick her own candidate, donate money, get out and vote, get all her friends to vote.

And then, on Election Day, one of us is going to win and one of us is going to lose, and it's a one-size-fits-all. In a Libertarian society, we get to keep our resources and then vote with our feet or vote with our dollars.

So, I can send my kid to a school with vaccines, and my neighbor can send his kid to a school that doesn't require vaccines. And that's one of the reasons why I think we're so polarized, is because we're having to vote on everything.

I mean, it's getting to the point where, pretty soon, they're going to be asking us, do we all want to be vegetarians, or do we want to be steak eaters? And I would suggest that a decision so personal as vaccines is something as personal as what you eat.

CAVUTO:  Now, you're a professor as well.

You're quite aware, at Clemson, I guess they're going to look at virtual classes after Thanksgiving, and that they're concerned that this is spreading. Do schools push that too far? Do you think that virtual classes vs. in-person classes, it should be up to students and/or their parents to decide?

JORGENSEN:  Yes, education is a local issue. It should be decided among parents, teachers and students. And one thing I would do is get rid of the one-size-fits-all Department of Education from Washington.

And I heard President Trump earlier telling schools, you really should get back into school.

But it varies. The needs of rural Appalachia are much different than the needs of downtown New York City, much different than the needs of Arizona.

And it should be up to the localities to decide what they want to do, not the federal government.

And, as president, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't even give my opinion. I would say, it's up to you.

CAVUTO:  Let's say you were to become president.

Then I would ask you what your vision for America would be. You have often compared the way Switzerland operates, a successful country. They have a banking center. They do everything the way a country should.

The difference is -- quoting here -- "Switzerland doesn't get its nose in everyone else's business, and they try not to be the world's policeman. So, I would get out there, and I would say that we need to treat the world as our neighbors, not our combatants, and we need to bring the troops home."

JORGENSEN:  Right.

CAVUTO:  Is that your philosophy of what America should be?

JORGENSEN:  Well, you mentioned banking.

I'm looking toward Switzerland as a model for our national defense. And what I have said is, I want to turn America into one giant Switzerland, armed and neutral. We're in 150 different countries around the world, and we spend more than the next seven countries combined.

And it would be different if it were just the money. But it's actually making us less safe, not more safe, as we saw with 9/11.

So, I want to be, when it comes to military...

CAVUTO:  But we can be a Switzerland, Professor?

I mean, obviously, we're many times the size of Switzerland. What might work for a much smaller democracy here is a little different with a country like ours.

Does America have an obligation, when it comes -- I'm not saying intruding on conflicts -- I get that -- but to bear responsibility or help the rest of the world, given its sheer size and wealth?

JORGENSEN:  I would say that, because we're a larger company -- or a country, that that's even more reason to be neutral, because we are seen as a bully elsewhere.

And even President Trump has been touting his peace agreement. Not everybody is happy with it. It doesn't matter who you pick. Somebody is not going to be happy with it. So, that's why I want to remain neutral.

And, also, for instance, us being over in the Middle East, now, let me give a disclaimer. There's absolutely no reason, no justification for flying planes into buildings, but we made it easier on bin Laden because he went to his people there, and he said, look, they promised they would be gone.

They said they'd be here temporarily. They're still here. And, oh, by the way, they're trying to take over our religion and our laws.

And so it was much easier to convince them that they needed to attack us.

Now, again, we can't stop every madman, but we shouldn't make it easier on them or for them.

CAVUTO:  Would you dramatically cut our military budget?

JORGENSEN:  I would cut it so that we would have a strong defense for our shores. We need to absolutely defend our shores and defend our borders.

However, there's no reason for us to be in France, in Germany, Japan, and definitely not the Middle East.

And I have been jokingly saying, we keep hearing how great France is that they get five-week vacations. Well, maybe we'd get five-week vacations too if we weren't supporting their military and all the other militaries around the world.

CAVUTO:  All right, Jo Jorgensen, the 2020 Libertarian presidential candidate, by the way, the first time that honor has gone to a woman in American history.

We will see how things sort out, Professor. Thank you very much.

All right, we will be following the debate. And, of course, she will not be there, but the two main candidates, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, will be.

We know of some of the drama that has ensued since then, including bringing up this whole e-mail thing.

Don't forget to catch our coverage on FBN, beginning at 8:00 p.m., right through the end, foreign market reaction and our own futures market reaction in one fell swoop tonight.

Here's "The Five."

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