Trey Gowdy: Media complicit in 'blackout' of Hunter Biden story

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Trey Gowdy: Media complicit in 'blackout' of Hunter Biden story

Fox News correspondent discusses criminal probes into Biden family business deals on 'The Story'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum" December 10, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Hey there Bret. Good evening to you and
good evening everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is The Story.
Breaking tonight Hunter Biden is not the only member of the Biden family
whose business deals are under investigation from the DOJ. Politico now
reporting that federal agents in Pennsylvania are conducting a criminal
probe into a business deal that has ties to Jim Biden who you see here with
his brother.

Now you remember Tony Bobulinski said that Jim Biden was working with
Hunter to secure business deals in China so all of this got precious little
coverage before the election and those who did dig in, the New York Post
and Fox news were either mocked for stonewalled.

Here's our reporter outside of Jim Biden's home back in October.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Why did you involve Joe Biden in your China deal? Why did you and
Hunter Biden want Joe Biden to meet with Tony B?

JIM BIDEN, JOE BIDEN'S BROTHER: What are you talking about?

REPORTER: I wanted to ask you about the China deal.

JIM BIDEN: Would you please stop bothering me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, what did Joe Biden know and why are we only hearing about
some of these investigations now and what about the claims that Rudy
Giuliani has been making for months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: You'll see texts,
emails and photos that demonstrate crimes committed by the Biden crime
family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Rudy was dismissed as falling for Russian disinformation. The
same argument that we have been hearing for the past four years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Just as I said to the president, with him all
roads lead to Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But all along it appears it was not Russia working its ways into
the halls of Congress, it was China right under the noses of the Speaker of
the House and the Chair of the House Intel Committee who of course is Adam
Schiff. Ron Johnson, Republican Chairman of the House Homeland Security
Committee is here in a moment.

But first Trey Gowdy, Fox News contributor and author of `It Doesn't Hurt
to Ask.' Trey, good to have you here tonight. Thanks for being here.

TREY GOWDY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: You know your thoughts on, now we're learning that Jim Biden is
under a criminal probe in western Pennsylvania with regard to a hospital
business deal there. How serious is that?

GOWDY: Well, it's potentially very serious. I mean healthcare for all can
go up to 20 years but Martha you put your finger on. I mean think about all
the things we read and saw in the weeks leading up to the election. We saw
Donald Trump's tax returns in the New York Times.

We saw that Eric Trump was being deposed by the Attorney General. Ivanka
Trump's business dealings. Jared Kushner's business dealings, all of that
is fair game. Now think about how many leaks the New York Times has gotten
about ongoing investigations and not a word about Hunter Biden or any
member of the Biden family.

And for those who did write about it, for those who did investigate it, the
social media platforms punish you if you try to disseminate that
information so just think back to that Op-Ed written by The New York Times.
Donald Trump is the greatest threat to America says the evil axis, the axis
of evil since Hitler and Japan.

That's what the New York Times said so if do you believe that, of course
you're not going to do anything that hurts his opponent and I think that
explains why you saw nothing leading up to the election.

MACCALLUM: So you bring up a number of great points there one of them is
why we didn't learn about this and one of the things that's been put out
there by someone who's familiar with this case related to the Department of
Justice what says that it was in deference to the upcoming election.

Was that right or wrong in your mind?

GOWDY: No, I mean unless you know something I don't know Hunter Biden's not
on the ballot, neither are any of Biden's brothers so I mean Eric Trump -
Eric trump being deposed by the New York Attorney General was done right
before the election so if it's fair to do it to a member of Trump's family
then why the investigator blackout?

I mean I don't know any cops and prosecutors that just hit the pause
button. You're not supposed to leak. I'll say that, you're not supposed to
leak but the New York Times always gets leaks from the DOJ and the FBI when
it revolves - when it involves Republicans but in this case, they either
didn't ask or they didn't run with it when they got it.

MACCALLUM: Yes and it's my understanding that it wasn't ever paused but
that it was covert, meaning that the people involved were not aware of it
yet and then they waited until after the elections for it to become overt,
where they contact the people involved and they contact the lawyers of the
people involved, you know if that decision was made to stay out of the way
of the election, do you think that was wrong?

GOWDY: Of course, it was wrong. I mean, the American people are smart
enough to decide. First of all, we know you're presumed innocent. Second of
all, we don't attribute shortcomings of kids to their parents, but you know
Martha, I just read in the last week about a pardon investigation.

That there's certain people in the president's orbit that are being
investigated for pardon improprieties, OK? They're entitled to
confidentiality too, aren't they? Why are we reading about that in The New
York Times? Because the FBI and DOJ decide when to leak and when not to
leak so this is been going on since 2018 and you need to tell me the New
York Times didn't know about it or didn't ask about it. I think the reality
is they just didn't write about it.

They knew about it but they didn't want him to win the best way to hurt him
as number one print his tax returns which is a crime also by the way and to
cover up for his family.

MACCALLUM: And there was a very concerted effort on the part of the media
to squash this story anyway possible. This is the cover of the New York
Times, it says, "Censored: Facebook and Twitter block Post expose on Hunter
Biden files." And I just also want to mention with regards to New York that
the Southern District of New York is looking into Hunter Biden for
securities fraud.

Here is the November 17 judiciary hearing with Mark Zuckerberg and Jack
Dorsey of Twitter asked about why they blocked this story from the American
people. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK DORSEY, CEO, TWITTER: This is a policy around distribution of tax
materials. We do not want Twitter to be a distribution point for tax
returns.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: We try not to be arbiters of what's true
ourselves, but we have partnered with fact checkers around the world to
help assess that to prevent misinformation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: OK. Trey Gowdy, final thought on that before I let you go.

GOWDY: It's just laughable. They disseminate false information all the time
and think about all the classified information that you can retweet. That's
a crime by the way. Not of the stuff involved in the New York Post was a
crime so if they have a standard none of us knows what it is.

MACCALLUM: Trey Gowdy, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight, Trey.

GOWDY: Yes ma'am.

MACCALLUM: So now we turn to the active role that the Senate has taken on
this story led by Ron Johnson, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.
He published an 80 plus page report on Hunter Biden and Burisma several
months back and he joins me now. Senator Johnson, good to have you here
tonight.

You know your thoughts, is what you're learning now included in the
intelligence that you had when you wrote your report or is this - is this
above and beyond that?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Well, obviously we didn't know that the FBI was -
or the justice department's conducting investigation but I think it's all
part and parcel of the transactions we revealed.

The very troubling ones with the mainstream media completely dismissed,
completely ignored but you know Martha, when you take a look at the types
of people that Hunter Biden and now we know through Tony Bobulinski that
Joe Biden knew about these folks as well.

CESC $5 million to Hunter Biden directly, another $6 million through Rob
Walker who claimed to be a surrogate for the Biden family. This is a
company, the Chairman had ties to the Communist Party China, the People's
Liberation Army and this company that had $33 million of income in 2013
just went poof and the Chairman just disappeared.

These are the people that Hunter Biden and the Bidens had formed in
financial entanglements with. What else - what other connections do they
have into China? We may only just really be looking at the tip of the
iceberg.

MACCALLUM: Yes, so I mean some people listen to that and they want to know
why there wasn't a more forceful subpoena process. Why weren't these people
brought in front of Congress, in front of your committee before the
election?

JOHNSON: Well again, subpoenas are only as good as people are willing to
honor them and Congress has very little input or power to actually enforce
them, so we were first trying to just uncover and dig up the information.
That was difficult enough within these agencies and so we issued the
report. We're not prosecutors, we're not here to determine whether
something's legal or illegal, we're here to gain information.

And quite honestly, I needed support for my committee to issue subpoenas.
There's no way I would have done a subpoena for Hunter Biden.

MACCALLUM: I think some people just you know look at that and they wonder
you know how affected it is - even possible to be on Capitol Hill with
regard to some of these investigation but we know now as you say, the
Department of Justice was looking into it so what happens now is the big
question and here's what your colleague Senator Tom Cotton says should
happen now. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there needs to be a special counsel. We need to
dig into it.

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): These investigations span multiple jurisdictions
and if Joe Biden becomes president then all those prosecutors are in line
to be fired next month. If there are ever circumstances that create a
conflict of interest and called for a special counsel, I think the
circumstances are present here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So that seems pretty clear, but you have said earlier today that
you do not think there should be a special counsel called in in this
investigation. Why not Senator?

JOHNSON: No, I've said I'm not a real fan of special counsels and I'll give
these prosecutors benefit of doubt for the time being but look, I'm highly
concerned. Look, we did the investigation into the investigation of the
Hillary Clinton email scandal which was investigation not to uncover the
truth leading to prosecutions or convictions.

It's a prosecution to cover up the truth and exonerate. I want to make sure
that's not the case in terms of Hunter Biden as well but listen, I think
the Vice President has all kinds of legal jeopardy here. If it's a true
investigation, they're going to start opening up all these financial
transactions, you know, we saw the emails where the big guy gets 10 percent
of one particular deal where Hunter's complaining about having to always
include his father in the cut or whatever.

MACCALLUM: Exactly.

JOHNSON: So, this is very troubling but that's why we published our report-
-

MACCALLUM: But Senator--

JOHNSON: - at the end of September and the press, the media ignored it and
they had an enormous impact on our elections.

MACCALLUM: We didn't ignore it but listen, this is the problem and as Tom
Cotton lays it out, he's saying this is exactly the situation where you
need a special counsel. You're saying well, gee, I hope that you know they
don't treat the way they treated the Hillary Clinton email scandal, but
many people are still waiting for accountability in that story.

So isn't this a good moment to say let's protect it from the incoming
president because he - his son is involved in it, his brother is involved
in it so wouldn't this be the perfect situation, I know you don't like
special counsels but wouldn't this be the right time for that, given all
those circumstances?

It might be and there's time to call in the special counsel as well so
again I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not a real fond - not real fond of
the special counsel one.

MACCALLUM: OK, Senator Ron Johnson, thank you Sir. Good to have you here
tonight. So my next guest says that the media's dismissal of this story in
the weeks leading up to the election may have changed the outcome of the
race. Take a listen to some of that coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charges so heinous, I'm not even going to say them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talking about the Biden's personal corruption a little
bit about Hunter Biden, still most of those charges unverified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It whole a smear on Joe Biden comes from the Kremlin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peddling baseless conspiracy theories about Joe Biden
and his son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so obviously a Russian operation. It is so
obviously a story that was created by the Trump campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And these people so obviously didn't know what was going on
because they were in the middle of a federal investigation at the time.
Joining me now is Joe Concha, Media Opinion Analyst for The Hill and Lisa
Boothe, both are Fox news contributors. Great to have you all here this
evening as well and we've got Guy Benson there too.

Hi everybody.

GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Hey Martha.

MACCALLUM: So Joe, let me start with you. From a media perspective you know
it's really unconscionable when you look back at it given the fact that we
now know that there were not only federal - Delaware investigation, SDNY
Southern district of New York which is a very serious securities
investigation and Western Pennsylvania.

So what were all those people we just heard from basing that on? What were
they talking about?

JOE CONCHA, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: What they're talking about was their own
opinions, not following the facts. They said that the story couldn't be
verified because it's hard to verify something when you don't try to verify
it as a journalist or news organizations in the first place.

Let me give you some headlines Martha, from October. CNN, The Anatomy of
the New York Post dubious Hunter Biden Story. Washington Post: The Truth
behind the Hunter Biden Non Scandals. New York Times: Inside the White
House Secret Last Ditch Effort To Change The Narrative And The Election.

This thing was dismissed outright before anybody actually pursued the story
so a couple things to look for here. Mumble Joe Biden actually speak about
this, putting out a statement not good enough and these press conferences
that he has done where he only answers questions seemingly about President
Trump.

He's going to have to answer for this now in his own words because he said
there was no wrongdoing and he had no conversations with his son about his
business dealings despite flying God knows how many hours on the same plane
over to places like China. Who will the Attorney General be?

Dana Perino brought this up before. Great question. Are we getting another
Eric Holder, the President's wingman or Loretta Lynch or who we going to
have in here to carry out this federal investigation but I think the big
tell is who's going to book Tony Bobulinski from another news organization
besides Fox news or the New York Post in terms of doing an interview
because if anybody's really serious about pursuing this story and peeling
the onion off, I want to hear from Hunter Biden's business associate who
only spoke to Tucker Carlson just a couple of months ago, maybe a couple of
other outlets and seemed very credible at the time.

Let's see who pursues that interview because that's a big key right now,
Martha.

MACCALLUM: We got a lot of media organizations starting to cover their
tracks here and you also have to really continue to remind people about
what Twitter and Facebook did. What right did they have to slap a ban on
the New York Post story that broke this story about the laptop at that
point?

You know I mean who are they to do that? And Lisa Boothe, do you believe
there was any impact on people's ability to assess the election fairly?

LISA BOOTHE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, of course because that information
wasn't out there because the media made sure of it and we're at a really
dangerous place I believe because you have the media almost in its entirety
along with the left pushing the same narratives and then you have a Big
Tech coming along and censoring any opposing voices.

So how does that leave room for the truth and where we're now as we
potentially have a president that hasn't been vetted. Joe Biden was not
vetted by the media. You have someone despite the fact he was in office for
you know something like 47 years, he abandoned most of his core beliefs
along the campaign trail.

He abandoned most of it moderate beliefs in favor of a progressive agenda
and surrounded himself with progressives yet he wasn't vetted. Also we
potentially have a president who is entangled in this mess of his family,
who's entangled with these business dealings, potentially illegal with
foreign entities and foreign governments because as some of your previous
guests have pointed out Joe Biden was mentioned in some of the emails as
the big guy and getting cuts to some of these deals.

Tony Bobulinski said that he met with Joe Biden on a couple of occasions
about a business deal with China so that puts him in a precarious position,
particularly when we look at foreign policy moving forward and a position
of being compromised by somebody's foreign governments.

MACCALLUM: Yes, and we know that we have a lot to fear from China and we're
learning more about it every single day in fact. Guy, this is a moment from
the 60 Minutes interview that President Trump did with Leslie Stahl. Watch
this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I watch him walk out of
the store and he's walking with an ice cream and the question the media
asks him what kind of ice cream, what flavor ice cream do you have and he
is in the midst of a scandal.

LESLIE STAHL, CBS NEWS HOST: He's not.

TRUMP: Of course, he is, Leslie.

STAHL: He's not. No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I mean Guy, you know that no, he's not in the midst of a scandal
and you know there was a longer piece actually an exchange about this, that
60 Minutes cut out of the whole interview. They didn't even play that part.
What do you think about that all, Guy?

BENSON: Well Martha, I think it's even worse than what we've said so far in
this segment on the media's behalf and much of the mainstream press. They
not only decided collectively this was not a story, something that we were
not to discuss in any serious manner.

You mentioned Big Tech. I remember trying to just tweet the link out and
you couldn't do it which was to sort of astonishing. They all went a step
further in many cases where the Biden campaign came out and said this is
Russian disinformation. You played the clip of Nancy Pelosi at the top of
the show.

Democrats, the Biden campaign and the media, all just settled instantly on
the same talking point about Russia that had absolutely no basis for it in
actual fact and yet it was repeated, it was swallowed whole by the press,
repeated ad nauseam and to your point about the media's job here and it
actually goes back to President Trump complain about the ice cream sundae
and the types of questions that are asked of Joe Biden.

If the press wants to try to prove just a little bit that they're going to
try to attempt and attempt to hold Joe Biden accountable and ask tough
questions, pointed questions. Joe Biden is on the record in multiple
presidential debates in front of tens of millions of people claiming that
there was nothing to this story whatsoever. Hunter made no money from
China, he said that.

He famously told our colleague Peter Doocy, he had no knowledge whatsoever
of any of these business dealings. There are provably false things that the
president-elect has said on this very topic and I'd be very curious to see
if our brethren in the press will really hold his feet to the fire or are
they now embarrassed because they dismissed this story to try to help get
him elected so those sort of go through the motions a little bit and then
let it drop.

I know where I'd bet my money right now but it's a very sad state of
affairs.

MACCALLUM: Yes, and the truth is you know these are ongoing investigations.
If there's nothing there, there's nothing there and it doesn't hurt to ask
when it's your job to ask. Thank you very much. Guy, Joe Concha, Lisa
Boothe, great to see you all. Thanks guys.

BENSON: You bet.

BOOTHE: Thanks Martha. Have a good night.

MACCALLUM: You too. So how long will Nancy Pelosi continue to make excuses
for Congressman Eric Swalwell. A growing number of his colleagues want him
removed from the House Intelligence Committee. This is a big deal after
being compromised by this Chinese spy names Fang Fang.

Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik who now sits on the House Intel
committee. She's up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: I don't have any concerns that much for Swalwell. When that was
made known to the members of Congress, it was over. You know that was the
end of any communication with those people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So tonight, pressure's mounting to remove California congressman
Eric Swalwell from the Intelligence Committee after the story broke that he
allowed a suspected Chinese spy into his campaign and fundraising. She has
since fled the country back home to China but Fox news reporting reveals
that until yesterday she was still "friends" on Facebook with Swalwell's
father and his brother.

In fact, Swalwell's father liked a picture that she posted in March of this
year, in March of 2020. Both of those friendships have died ever since that
story broke though. Joining me now is Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, a
member of that House Intelligence Committee.

The Congresswoman sits on the same committee with Eric Swalwell.
Congresswoman, great to see you tonight. Thank you for being here.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Good to be with you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, do you believe that he should be removed from the committee
because of this? That's what Representative McCarthy says, leader McCarthy
says.

STEFANIK: 100 percent, he should be removed from the committee. He should
step down from his position on the House permanent select committee on
intelligence. Not only is it disturbing for any member of Congress to be
compromised by the Chinese Communist Party but particularly if you're a
member of Congress who sits on that very select committee that has
oversight over our intelligence agencies, that gets highly classified
briefings especially when it comes to adversaries like China, like Russia.

Eric Swalwell is compromised, and he needs to step down. Speaker Pelosi has
tried to brush this under the rug. This issue is not going away. There are
more questions that need to be answered. Not only should he step down, he
needs to appear before the Ethics committee.

MACCALLUM: Do you believe that the person should have briefed the gang of
8. She should have made sure that leadership was well aware of what was
going on. She says there's no problem with Eric Swalwell. He did nothing
wrong and there was no reason to alert anyone.

STEFANIK: I mean this is one of the most concerning piece of news I think
since I've been in office to learn about a colleague. We're talking about a
Chinese Communist Party official that infiltrated a member of Congress's
campaign that fund-raised money for him that also placed staff members and
interns into his official office.

MACCALLUM: That's right.

STEFANIK: That is very disturbing. Speaker Pelosi absolutely should have
briefed the gang of 8 and I know that Leader McCarthy is going to demand
answers for this. I also want to know when was Speaker Pelosi made aware of
this. She needs to come clean with her colleagues and the American people
why she didn't share that and why she didn't demand Eric Swalwell to step
down from the committee.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean given what we now know about how this all worked and
as you say, she placed an intern in one of his offices. She was bundling
for his finances. She obviously had at least an acquaintance friendship
with members of his family and here is what he said about spying back in
2019 with regard to Russia. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Stated plainly, the president's son met with a
Russian spy. We now have the best evidence of that in our minority report,
the Democrats put out that (inaudible) was going all over the world and
bumping into Dana Rohrabacher which is a sign of a spy which is sign of
someone who tries to create you know a coincidence encounter and now we
know that she was working at the behest of the Russian government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Uh-huh so that's how it works car so Congresswoman Stefanik, he
knows how it work.

STEFANIK: It's the height of hypocrisy and what is truly disturbing and
very sad irony that Eric Swalwell was the perpetrator of these baseless
accusations and the phony Russian hoax of Russian collusion. You can take
his own words and replace the word Russia with the Chinese Communist Party
and replaced the name of President Trump with Eric Swalwell and the
accusations he was lobbing that weren't based in fact are in fact true
about his coordination with the Chinese Communist Party asset in the United
States.

He owes his colleagues answers, he owes his constituents answers and he
should step down from the House Intelligence Committee.

MACCALLUM: I mean we know that this woman had - the reporting is that she
had at least two physical relationships with the people that she was also
getting to know here in United States. His office has refused to answer
that question with regard to him, so we do not know you know we have no
information that that's the case but more digging to come. Thank you so
much Congresswoman, great to see you tonight.

STEFANIK: Thanks Martha.

MACCALLUM: Elsie Stefanik from New York. All right so now to tonight's
other huge story. The COVID-19 vaccine has now been approved by the FDA
advisory panel for use in the United States following a vote. On Sunday the
full FDA is expected to follow the panel's recommendation within days it
could even happen tonight or tomorrow.

It's an amazing achievement for Operation Warp Speed which was originated
by the Trump administration so two big questions tonight, right? One is
practical and one is political. How do you get it now that it's almost out
there and will the Biden team take credit for the Trump-driven vaccine
which came in record time?

Joining me now Dr. Francis Collins, Director of the National Institutes of
Health. He is a member of the White House coronavirus task force. Doctor,
good to have you here this evening and I know that you will be primarily
interested in my first question which is what happens now? How long is it
going to take before these vials - you know we've seen in Canada and in the
U. K., it's going into people's arms so what's going on and when do we get
it?

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: Real soon so
the advisory committee did vote 17 to 4 with one abstention to approve
Pfizer's vaccine for COVID-19. That's an advisory committee. It goes to the
FDA and they will decide probably very soon whether to accept that
recommendation.

The Warp Speed team is ready to start distributing this vaccine to the
states and every state has already made a plan about how they would make
this allocated based upon what the priorities are.

So, what are the priorities? Because we don't have enough doses for
everybody right now so there are initial priorities are for health care
providers because they're on the front lines and also for people who are
very vulnerable that is residents of nursing homes and assisted living.

Those will be the people first in line. And then as more doses get
generated in the coming months, gradually we will work through people come
starting with the highest risk and eventually to everybody, hopefully by
the summer, we'll be at the point where all Americans --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But who is going to decide?

COLLINS: -- who wants to get this vaccine will get it.

MACCALLUM: So, who makes that decision? So, if you're, you know, in your
upper 80s, for example, like somebody that I know very well and love, my
dad, and you are in physically, you know, good health, when do those people
get in line? Do they call their doctor, do they go to CVS, what's going to
-- how do they get it?

COLLINS: So, it is the CDC's immunization practice committee that makes
these priority decisions. So, everybody should watch for those, and they
will be working through them over the course of the coming weeks. It will
certainly be the case that elderly people, who we know are at high risk, my
father-in-law is 98 and he is at home. He is not in a nursing home, so he
won't be in this first line, but I hope he'll get there pretty soon. We
will see those folks getting prioritized very soon after that.

And also, people who have chronic illnesses and who are not necessarily the
elderly --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

COLLINS: -- but who we know are at higher risk for severe disease.

MACCALLUM: So, when you say very soon and very soon, do you mean -- you
know, today is Thursday -- do you mean we might see shots injected on
Monday? Is that reasonable?

COLLINS: It's entirely possible. I don't want to preempt the FDA.

MACCALLUM: OK.

COLLINS: They are going to need to look at the comments that were made
today by this advisory committee, but I think it's quite reasonable. And
let me say, that is not the only vaccine of course.

MACCALLUM: Right.

COLLINS: There will be another meeting of the same group next Thursday
where they consider the Moderna vaccine. And let me say, Martha, that there
are four other vaccines that are in the midst of running trials.

MACCALLUM: Which is great.

COLLINS: We want all of them to succeed because then we'll have even more
doses, so people are interested in taking part in those trials, it's not
too late.

MACCALLUM: All right.

COLLINS: Combat COVID Dot HHS.GOV is the place to go to find out if you want to
join up. We need you.

MACCALLUM: All right. Dr. Collins, thank you very much. Good to see you
tonight.

COLLINS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up, the city of Minneapolis has now delivered on its
promise to defund the police. Shootings have doubled, carjackings are up
more than 300 percent. Haven't heard about those since the '80s, right? And
more than 100 police officers have quit their jobs.

My next guests are Minneapolis natives who say someone will pay, and we are
going to talk to them in a moment. Burgess Owens on the new leaked audio of
Joe Biden talking about defunding the police.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, after a month-long campaign to dismantle the police force
sparked by this tweet from Minneapolis counsel -- council president, excuse
me, member, Lisa Bender. Remember back in June? She wrote, yes, we are
going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a
transformative new model of public safety.

So, the council has now agreed to slash nearly $8 million from the police
budget and focus instead on violence prevention. As crime runs rampant
through the city. Gunshot victims have doubled in Minneapolis this year.
Carjackings are surging. Three hundred thirty-one percent since 2019. And
homicides are up 73 percent.

So here is how the debate unfolded among city officials and local
residents. Watch this.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

UNKNOWN: In my experience, more police do not equal safer communities.

UNKNOWN: Police do prevent crime. Police do provide safety.

UNKNOWN: Policing was set up originally and still operates to this day to
criminalize black people in the name of protecting white women, and I will
not allow you to keep doing this in my name.

(END VOICE CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So come in moments, Congressman-elect Burgess Owens who also
reacts to the leaked audio of Joe Biden talking about the defund the police
movement, but first we got to former city council member Dan Samuels and
Minneapolis resident Jonathan Lundberg who are suing their city over the
lack of police protection.

Gentlemen, thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight. Don, you are
a former council member, yourself, what do you make on what's going on, on
your formal council?

DAN SAMUELS, FORMER MEMBER, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL: Well, the citizens of
Minneapolis have been very concerned about both the murder of George Floyd
and the violence that has risen up after that, so both the police killing
and the violence after that.

We are concerned about both, and we want to have a both ends solution. Both
to get the police force corrected and fixed so that we have decent, just,
fair policing, and to have enough police officers acting right who are
going to police our communities to a level that will keep us safe.

MACCALLUM: It sounds like --

SAMUELS: But right now, the argument has been broken up too much into an
either-or situation. Either defund the police or have protection.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It sounds like a very logical goal to want your city to
achieve, and it seems achievable, but you look, Jonathan, at these crime
statistics, and they are soaring in Minneapolis in the wake of everything
that has unraveled since the death of George Floyd.

JONATHAN LUNDBERG, MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT: It has. I mean, I myself, we, I
have two bullet holes in my house. One that was six inches from my front
door, and one that was roughly a foot or so from going into my daughter's
bedroom window.

So, we have skin in the game here, and our city council has heard from us
on this, and a number of us have come to the city council, to the mayor,
with this lawsuit saying you are not doing what the law says you were going
to do, and that is have enough police officers to protect us on the
streets.

This both end approach is doable. It is doable. And we expect both. We
expect a police force that is just, that treats all people with dignity and
respect, regardless of the color of skin, and we expect that in numbers,
that will prevent crime, that will allow for safety. The safety of our
neighbors and our children. This is an adequate expectation --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LUNDBERG: -- of any citizen of any city.

MACCALLUM: Of any citizen in any city, yes, you are absolutely right. So,
Dan, what's the impact on the community on businesses, on stores -- I mean,
obviously we are in the middle of COVID-19 as well, which is another hammer
on everybody, but I can't imagine that a lot of businesses and people are
wanting to move to Minneapolis at this point?

SAMUELS: Right. The atmosphere is very challenging. You know, very blighted
commercial corridors and discouraged businesspeople. One of the challenges
is that Lake Street, where a lot of the looting took place, is a largely
immigrant community, and somebody says that immigrants take about nine
years to begin to fully engage.

So when you are talking about city council meetings, making calls to your
councilmember advocating on your behalf, the immigrant community is
typically going to be somewhat challenged in that way, and that's why the
part of the reasons why the city council was kind of deluded as to what the
will of the community was.

In addition, the rest of the community was not as organized as the
protesting, advocacy community, but slowly, we did get organized. And
actually, the changes in the budget were almost like moving cards around,
because even though $8 million or so was taken out of the budget, 11
million, $11.4 million was added back in in the reserve fund --

MACCALLUM: OK.

SAMUELS: -- for the chief to get $5 million for overtime and $6.7 million
for --

MACCALLUM: All right.

SAMUELS: -- to recruit classes. So, the will of the community to prevail.
And those adjustments were made at the last minute.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much, Dan
Samuels. Thank you, Jonathan Lundberg.

Joining me now is U.S. Representative-elect, former NFL player Burgess
Owens. Burgess, good to have you here tonight.

BURGESS OWENS (R-UT), REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: I remember seeing an interview with Lisa Bender, the head of
that city council, in the city of Minneapolis, where now over a hundred
police officers have left the force. They don't want to be any part of the
force anymore. And she said that, you know, the expectation that when you
call 911 and that the police would come to your aid was just sort of
smacked of white privilege, that that was, you know, not something that
should be expected, or that most people have the privilege of being able to
expect. What do you make of all this tonight, Burgess?

OWENS: Well, first of all, listening to statements like that is a total
lack of common sense. You know, what we have to understand is what has
happening right now, the hard left, they are very good at being empathy
free. They use misery as a political tool. I watched it happen 60 years in
my community where (Inaudible), 1960s, 50 to 60 percent of my community
were middle-class because 40 percent of them were business owners. We are
now down to 3.8 percent of business owners. It's totally flipped around.

So, I want -- I want everybody to understand what we are looking at across
our country, not just in Minneapolis, but across our country. We have the
hard left trying to destroy our middle class, they do that by attacking
small business owners. So, we -- it makes no sense, the things they are
doing right now. There is no science behind the lockdowns.

What Americans want very simply is freedom and security. What they want for
us is riots and lockdowns. They are two totally different ways of going at
it. One is the American way, and the other is the way of the hard left. We
need to understand what we're up against.

MACCALLUM: So, speaking of this movement, which definitely had an impact on
the election, here is Joe Biden recognizing that in this audio that was
leaked today. Let's listen to in and I'll get your thoughts on it on the
other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have already labeled
us as being defund the police. Anything we put forward in terms of the
organizational structure to change policing, which I promise you will
occur, I promise you, just think to yourself and give me advice whether we
should do that before January 5th because that's how they beat the living
hell out of us across the country, saying that we are talking about
defunding the police. We are not. We are talking about holding them
accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think about that, sir?

OWENS: It's interesting how they like to change the narrative. No. Don't
believe your lying ears. They want to defund the police. They want to piece
of the blanket. It was not the GOP that dip them in, it was the American
people. The reason why we have 14 seats and they lose a House seat is
because the American people drift toward the light. We love truth. We don't
like - -we don't like what Democrats are giving us.

And at the end of the day, just understand, we've just seen in Minneapolis,
is what they're trying to do across our country. Misery is a political
strategy for the left. Understand that. Look at every single blue city that
they run. It's misery, illiteracy, anger, riots, murder, is always
Democratic cities. We don't want that for the rest of our country, my
friends. Let's wake up and make sure we turn against this dark, darkness of
socialism.

MACCALLUM: Congressman-elect Burgess Owens from Salt Lake City, Utah, thank
you, sir. Good to see you tonight.

OWENS: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, President Trump moments ago tweeting this, 19 states are
fighting for us, almost unheard of, support. When we come back, details on
the Texas-led fight to take his election case to the United States Supreme
Court. Plus, Rush Limbaugh's biggest fear of the next stage of our divided
nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: I actually think that we are trending toward
secession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, more than 100 House Republicans are throwing
their support behind President Trump and the Texas lawsuit asking the
Supreme Court to overturn election results in several key battleground
states.

White House correspondent Kevin Corke has the breaking developments tonight
on this. Hi, Kevin.

KEVIN CORKE, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha.
There are 196 Republican House members, so with 106 of them signing on to
that amicus brief, that's a little more than half right around 54 percent.
Still, this last-ditch Hail Mary effort has frankly divided Republicans
over on Capitol Hill, including the Texas congressional delegation itself.

Representative Kay Granger, a top Republican on the powerful appropriations
committee has been telling the president for some time he should move on,
while Congressman Chip Roy, also of Texas, voiced his concern about the
suit on Twitter, opting not to sign on.

By the way, ditto for heavy hitters Kevin McCarthy and Liz Cheney. They
haven't sign on, either. Although for McCarthy, he says this. the president
has a right for every legal challenge to be heard. He has the right to go
the Supreme Court with that.

That suit, as you know, brought by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton aims
to block electors from Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia from
certifying that, certifying, that is, the Biden victory. Paxton also
alleges that the states mail-in voting efforts during the pandemic were
unconstitutional and attorneys general from 18 other red states have joined
in that lawsuit.

Now, to be clear here, and I want to make sure that I point this out for
you, Martha, critics of this case often suggest that simply violates the
principle of federalism and could frankly set a dangerous precedent by
having one state asking federal courts to police the voting procedures in
another state.

And just a button it up with this example, in his brief, Pennsylvania state
attorney, attorney general, that is, Josh Shapiro, he is a Democrat, he
called the Trump suit, quote, "a seditious abuse of the judicial process."
One that will play out for the entire nation to see very soon. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Indeed, it will. A lot of interesting legal questions there.
Thank you very much, Kevin.

So also, tonight, a Michigan lawmaker doubling down on her controversial
comments targeting Trump supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. CYNTHIA JOHNSON (D-MI), DETROIT: This is just a warning to you,
Trumpers. Be careful. Walk lightly. We are not playing with you. Enough of
the shenanigans. Enough is enough. And for those of you who are soldiers,
you know how to do it. Do it right. Be in order. Make them pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Michigan State Rep. Cynthia Johnson immediately faced backlash
for those comments. Within hours, she was stripped of her committee seats,
then late tonight, she just took to Twitter again to say this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I'm good. I'm OK. I'm not worried. I'm not going into -- I'm not
going underground, I'm not changing my (muted) phone number, I am not doing
none of that. Mind you, I never called anyone of their names, of course,
unless they are liars or dumb (muted).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, I mean, that's just one example of the anger and the
division, that is may be becoming even worse since the election. Fifty
percent of Republicans believe the election was fraudulent, that's a large
number of people that are unsatisfied with the outcome and you've got
Democrats who are outraged, that 75 million Americans voted for the
Republican.

People are moving out of blue states to red states, clashed between those
who believe the nation was founded on freedom and those who say that it was
built on systemic racism. The country used to have difference but a shared
vision over all of what it meant to be American. Even Rush Limbaugh warning
that he thinks we might be headed in a dangerous direction. An actual
separation of the states.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIMBAUGH: I actually think that we are trending toward secession. Can't go
on this way. There cannot be a peaceful coexistence of two completely
different theories of life, theories of government, theories of how we
manage our affairs. We can't be in this dire conflict. Without something
giving somewhere along the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That's a profound and challenging statement for our nation right
now.

So, joining me now, Brian Kilmeade, co-host of Fox & Friends and host of
the Brian Kilmeade show in Fox News radio, and Geraldo Rivera, Fox News
correspondent-at-large.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Hi, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Gentlemen, grateful to have you both with us.

You know, I have been hearing and reading things about this possibility
lately that it is not like it used to be, that there isn't sort of a vision
of what the country stands for, that everybody can sign onto, even when
they have different feelings about the way things should be done. But
secession, Geraldo? Do you think that is a possibility?

RIVERA: I think talk of secession is treason, Martha. I want to be very
clear. Rush Limbaugh is a powerhouse broadcaster. He is one in a zillion,
come along once in a generation, but that talk is reckless, it's
irresponsible. That Michigan lawmaker should be impeached. We are one
nation, indivisible.

I had a laugh, Rush goes on to say that people where he is, have no idea
what people in New York are thinking, they are so different they are like a
different species. Half of New York lives in Florida where Rush Limbaugh
lives. It's preposterous. Let's get over it. I live in Ohio, a red state.
Strongly supported President Trump, but I'm also a pro-gun control, pro-
immigration reform, I'm pro-choice. I think leaders who accentuate the
differences and exacerbate the divide are themselves responsible, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Well, I mean, that is a strong charge, and it is, as I said,
it's a discussion that I think is being had in a lot of places. There's a
piece by the Claremont Institute recently called the separation. We talked
about this. I mean, nobody wants this to be the case. And I'm sure that
Rush doesn't want secession to be where the country is headed.

But, Brian, we are in a place where, you know, people are moving to
neighborhoods where people think like them. They are leaving California to
move their businesses. Hewlett Packard, Elon Musk, to Texas for tax
reasons, and other reasons as well, cultural reasons. Where do we go from
here?

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, number one, we can get along, and
proof of that is Geraldo lives with Erica, his current wife who voted --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: That's right.

MACCALLUM: There's hope.

KILMEADE: -- so he know voted not for Donald Trump, how about that. So, you
are proof that there is a better day straight ahead.

RIVERA: Thank you.

KILMEADE: Number two -- right. And you know that's a fact. And I did, you
are on Wikipedia, Geraldo, so I was looking into your background.

RIVERA: Thank you.

KILMEADE: The 1619, 1776 bothers me the most.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

KILMEADE: Because we all should fundamentally understand how our country
started. We never thought we were perfect. We didn't need the 1619 project
with everyone poking holes in right now but is now part of the curriculum.
You know why? I remember in 1976, we had roots and that didn't make America
look great. Slavery was terrible. No one ever, ever that I know of in my
lifetime ever said well, those were the good old days. It's not. They were
terrible. But that doesn't mean America is awful. It means America fought a
war to be better.

In the 1960s, the unrest, we got better. And I just think that in the big
picture, I saw a stat that blew me away. In the 1960s with all of the
division, they were asked, parents, would be upset if your kid married
somebody who would support the other party. Only 5 percent for both parties
were upset.

Now, over 50 percent would be upset if you came home and said, mom, she's
perfect, but bad news, she is a Democrat. And then now, everything would be
crazy. I sense that once compromise starts, Martha, and I believe it will
start if the Republicans can hold the Senate, and if Joe Biden finds a way
to -- if he becomes president -- if he -- if they hold the Senate, they'll
have to compromise even to get somebody confirmed.

In the beginning, the deal starts to get made and everyone goes, well, they
got a better deal, no, they got a better deal, I think the temperature will
go down.

MACCALLUM: I thought that statistic was stunning too. When I was growing
up, I didn't know definitely, you know, how each of my family members were
voting or how the neighbors were voting. It's not like that anymore,
Geraldo, in this country, and I think that that's significant.

You know, Biden was -- you know, people who voted for Joe Biden, a lot of
them like, it's going to calm things down, the chaos will go away. So far,
we are not seeing that.

RIVERA: Well, my dad was a Republican, my mother a Democrat, so there was
precedent to my marriage with Erica. You know, I think that we'll get
through this. I was on the streets, 1968, 969. Cities were burning to the
ground. Things were so tense. They were like a war every day. You know,
this too shall pass, and I think that Biden will do fine with that
Republican Senate, and you know, and a House divided I think we'll be fine.

MACCALLUM: All right.

RIVERA: Because (Inaudible) said so.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you both. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

RIVERA: You too, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, a brand-new episode of the "Untold Story" podcast is
available at http://foxnews.com or wherever you listen this week. I walk to -- I
talk to a 100-year-old World War II veteran, James Smith, about his time
serving as a member of the first Marine Raider Battalion. Incredible Story.

That is our story for tonight. We thank you so much for being here. I look
forward to seeing you tomorrow night. Thanks, everybody. Good night.


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