Coons: Kavanaugh hearing should be paused for investigation

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," September 26, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Breaking tonight, there is a brand new allegation, we're just getting some details on this one. And we will get to that in a moment. It is a more recent late 1990s allegation. And when we get that, we'll bring that to you.

So, the president says that he will listen to what is said tomorrow at the hearing. And that he could change his mind about Brett Kavanaugh based on what he hears. But his feelings about the politics between all -- behind all of this, very clear.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is a big con job. And I would love to be in the room with the Democrats, close the door, you guys are all away outside waiting. And Schumer and his buddies are all in there laughing, how they fooled you all.


MACCALLUM: That as the hearing is on track to happen as we said, 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. It gets underway, our coverage starts at 9:00. And Dr. Ford's statement is now in. We have read through it.

And now a new accuser represented by Michael Avenatti, says Kavanaugh and Mark Judge, his friend, "Caused girls to become inebriated and disoriented so that they could then be gang-raped in a side room or a bedroom by a train of numerous boys.

Now, on Monday, I asked Judge Kavanaugh about these allegations from this accuser. Although at the time, we did not know her identity. Here's his answer.


BRETT KAVANAUGH, UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: That's totally false and outrageous. I never done any such thing, known about any such thing. When I was in high school and I went to an all-boys Catholic High School, a Jesuit High School where I was focused on academics and athletics. Going to church every Sunday at Little Flower. Working on my service projects and friendship. Friendship with my fellow classmates and friendship with girls from the local, all-girls Catholic schools.

And yes, there were parties. And the drinking age was 18 and yes, the seniors were legal and had beer there. And yes, people might have had too many beers on occasion and people generally in high school. I think all of us have probably done things. We look back on in high school and regret our cringe a bit.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about an allegation of sexual assault. I've never sexually assaulted anyone.


MACCALLUM: Expect that we will hear more along those lines tomorrow. So tonight, 60 men and women who went to school with Kavanaugh, this letter just came in today. They call these ideas, these allegations, nonsense and reprehensible. We're going to speak with one of them. A longtime classmate of his in just a few moments.

So, from sworn testimonies to secondhand accounts and polygraph tests, to handwritten calendars from 30 years ago, there's now a lot of evidence that is coming in to go through. Judge Jeanine Pirro has dealt with many similar cases of sexual assault in her many years as a prosecutor and as a judge. And she joins us now with her analysis.

So, judge, we are starting to get a more of a look at this. And just to keep all of these things separated, this is the most recent accusation that has come through, Michael Avenatti is representing this woman and she paints a really gruesome picture of what she says was going on at these highs school parties.

And here's a little bit of what she says, we're going to put it up on the wall. But I want to get your thoughts on how damning this is potentially.


MACCALLUM: She says that he attempted to remove or shift girl's clothing to expose private body parts. She's talking about Brett Kavanaugh, she says there. And she says, she's been told by other women that his conduct -- that also occurred during the summer months in Ocean City, Maryland, she said, she also witnessed such conduct on one occasion in Ocean City, Maryland during Beach Weeks.

So, ley -- let's put up Beach Week because we now have the calendar page from Judge Kavanagh, as well. This is from his own -- put up the calendar page from Judge Kavanaugh that shows his own markings of where he was and when. There it is.

All right, and you can see quite clearly in the second week thereof June. He says, he was at Beach Week. There's a lot more here, but as you look through this, how damning is it?

PIRRO: Well, look, anyone who listens to these alleged facts as you and I have, as mothers, I mean, as you said, I've been a prosecutor or a prosecutor for victims for 30 years. I started a sex crime, June. This is horrible stuff, its ugly stuff. But the question is, whether or not this stuff where -- look, he corroborates that -- you know, there was a Beach Week, maybe it was the same week, maybe it was the same year, I don't know.

What I do know that it's highly unusual to have one guy involved with three women all of whom have had repressed memories. And look, reporting rape and sexual assault is not at all unusual. But repressed memory is highly unusual, it's rare.

What are the coincidence of one guy picking three women all of whom have repressed memories? So, you have a context here of horrible sounding facts. But the question is, are they supported by corroborating witnesses?

He says, for example, or she says, you know, they were spiking the alcohol, they were spiking the punch bowl, they were taking women or women who were in the room, they were gang raping them.

Well, who are these women? Did you report to your friends that they were spiking the alcohol? If they were standing outside that room, what did you do about it, did you just sit and wait?

I mean, there is so much that a prosecutor is going to do with this. And as a prosecutor, my job was to represent the victims.

MACCALLUM: As you were.

PIRRO: But as an attorney looking at this in the context of the politics, the last minute sitting on it for six weeks, by a United States Senator. The removal of all the presumption of innocence, our time-honored traditions of the right of confrontation, cross-examination, the presumption of innocence by people in Congress who make our laws is stunning. And so, that stops me in my -- in my prosecutorial tracks.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, let me ask you, we're going to learn a little bit more about the woman who is going to be doing the questioning. She is from Arizona, she's a prosecutor in the next block. But, the questions that will be asked tomorrow, they'll ask whether or not they line up with what she has said before.

We know that there was a polygraph that was -- she wrote a handwritten statement on the polygraph. In that polygraph statement, she did not say that she thought that he inadvertently might kill her or that she thought that there was an attempted rape going on. She will say that tomorrow. We have her statement here.

She says that he -- I believed he was going to rape me and I tried to yell for help, and I thought that he was accidentally going to kill me. How much does it matter if these stories don't all line up exactly?

PIRRO: You never have stories completely line up by a victim. I mean, if a victim -- and I'm not calling her a victim yet. She's an alleged victim. But with victims, they rarely tell the same story all the time.

The lie detector is irrelevant. It has -- it's inconsequential. There is a reason we don't use them in criminal courtrooms, they are unreliable. You can trick a lie detector, you can fake a result of a lie detector. If you're a sociopath, you're not going to have an emotional response to a question that might incriminate you.

Well, all of this stuff doesn't help her. What helps her will be her credibility in explaining why in 36 years, it took her this long to mention the name, Kavanaugh.

MACCALLUM: You know it's pretty clear when you read through her account that she truly did not want to come forward. And she said I submitted this information -- basically, she thought to herself from what I'm reading here, I want this to be in the file -- you know, I feel very strongly about this, I want this to be in the file.

But then, an interesting thing happens, and it lands in a Congresswoman's office, and the next thing you know it's passed along to Dianne Feinstein. And my feeling is reading this that by the time that happens, there's no way that they are going to let go of this.

PIRRO: Right.

MACCALLUM: And it is absolutely going to be leaked to the press. Most likely, I would imagine by somebody in one of those offices.

PIRRO: Well, I don't think -- to me, I don't believe in coincidence. I agree with you. But that -- why did she take a lie detector test before this stuff was revealed and outed?

MACCALLUM: Yes, that's a great question.

PIRRO: You know, why did she need some corroboration of a lie detector and maybe someone who doesn't understand the law (INAUDIBLE) gee. Let's get her and take a lie detector. If man -- if she passes it, we're going full hock.

But then, when her witnesses are not corroborated or say no, it never happened or I don't remember any of this. Then, they go to victim -- alleged victim number two.


PIRRO: And you know, and they go on and on.

MACCALLUM: And the one woman that she mentions as being at the party and she's going to name this woman again tomorrow, Leland has said that she has no memory of any of this, and she can't corroborate it.

PIRRO: Exactly.

MACCALLUM: So, fascinating. Thank you so much, Jeanine. Great to have you with us tonight.

PIRRO: You're welcome. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, Senator Chris Coons is one of the Judiciary Committee's 10 Democrats, of course. And he will be questioning some of the witness both of them tomorrow and he's going to join us in a moment after this.

Oh, Chris Coons joins us right now. So, good to have you with us tonight, Senator. Tell me a little bit about your reaction to all of what is coming in here, and what your line of questioning will be tomorrow?

SEN. CHRIS COONS , D-DEL.: Well, Martha. My concern is that we're going ahead with a hearing tomorrow. Without having had the FBI involved to try and get to the bottom of the rapidly growing number of alarming allegations against Judge Kavanaugh.

As Judge Pirro suggested, some of this is evidence that really could be a better developed, better refined. I think we ought to take a weeklong pause, I'm speaking for myself and hold the hearing open until we've had an opportunity for some of the challenging or corroborating witnesses to be questioned.


MACCALLUM: Is there any chance in your mind -- So, you know, obviously, this has been going on a long time already. And you have to wonder if you keep moving it and delaying it are you just going to continue to get -- you know, more information coming in and will the hearing ever happen?

So, it's understandable on both sides that the delay is frustrating the Republicans and that -- you know, the Democrats feel like it should keep going on and on.

But you said something very interesting the other night which I -- which I --

COONS: Martha, let me -- Martha, let me be clear about my view. I don't think this should just continue going on and on. I think we ought to come to a date certain and agree that for one more period --


MACCALLUM: But that's happened a couple of times already, hasn't it?

COONS: No. Meaning that there was an agreement that we would have the FBI do a background check on the various people who are either supporting Judge Kavanaugh's assertions or denials or supporting a Dr. Ford's allegations that hasn't happened.

MACCALLUM: So, you want background checks done on all the people on both sides who are signing these letters?

COONS: Yes. Well, we've got three now. Different folks who have come forward with concerning allegations. And I know Judge Kavanaugh wants to clear his name, wants to be able to move forward if confirmed and served on the Supreme Court with his integrity restored.


COONS: I think the only way to get to a fair process is for the members of the committee to have more witnesses and more evidence beyond just Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh.

MACCALLUM: Are you --

COONS: My hope, Martha, is that tomorrow's hearing will be respectful, and fair, and appropriate. But the committee has very little to go on beyond just a he-said, she-said, tomorrow, and I don't think that's going to get to the bottom of this.

MACCALLUM: You know, you raise an interesting question. And I'm wondering if we're going to see a repeat of what we saw last time. So, when everybody sits down in this room, are we going to start hearing from Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, and perhaps, from you that this can't happen? "We're not doing this today, this is not going to go on. We want this investigation to be opened." Are we going to see a repeat of that tomorrow?

COONS: That's not what you're going to hear from me. I'm speaking for myself, I've got questions for Judge Kavanaugh and questions for Dr. Ford. I will tell you that I think it's a mistake for us to only do one round of five minutes of questioning of these two witnesses. There are other witnesses I wish were in front of us. Like Mark Judge, one of Judge Kavanaugh's close friends. Dr. Ford alleges that he was in the room for the assault. Why not have him also give sworn testimony.

But you're going to hear me participate in questioning both Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh tomorrow.

MACCALLUM: All right, I want to play a sound piece of sound that you said the other night. And I want to get your thoughts on this because it's raised a lot of questions. Let's play that.


COONS: It is Judge Kavanaugh who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, and who I think now bears the burden of disproving these allegations rather than Dr. Ford and Ms. Ramirez.


MACCALLUM: So, you say that it's his burden to prove that he is innocent. Here is what Lindsey Graham said about that.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C., SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: And here's what Kavanaugh said, I've never sexually assaulted anybody, anywhere, anytime. But under this construct, he'll have to prove 35 years ago, he wasn't at a party. And they won't tell him when it was and where it was. And how you're supposed to do that?


MACCALLUM: I mean, since when in this country is that the way this works?

COONS: Let's be clear, Martha. This is not a criminal trial.


COONS: So, neither Dr. Ford nor Judge Kavanaugh should be on trial tomorrow. But he does have the challenge of persuading the members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the members of the Senate.


MACCALLUM: And so, does she, correct? She also has the same challenge.

COONS: Hang in a minute, stop. Martha, Martha, his challenge is to persuade us that he has the judicial temperament and the integrity to serve on the Supreme Court. President Trump has other equally credentialed nominees who he could bring forward.

Dr. Ford, I'll remind you has nothing to gain from this. And has already suffered significant harm to herself and her family. I think she's come forward with credible allegations. And I do think the challenge now is for us to be persuaded that Judge Kavanaugh has addressed that.


MACCALLUM: But what -- can I just -- I have to -- I have to wrap it up, but I got to ask you one more time.

COONS: Sure.

MACCALLUM: Don't they both bear the burden of proving their own credibility and why would you walk into this situation having already decided that she's credible, what you just said, and that you don't think he is? How can -- how could you already be at that point?

COONS: What I've been calling for consistently, in this interview and in the last week is for the committee to have in front of them the evidence of the FBI questioning a whole series of additional witnesses.

Dr. Ford's going to come forward tomorrow with three more affidavits of folks to whom she disclosed this alleged sexual assault years ago. Before anyone knew, Judge Kavanaugh might be on the Supreme Court. And Judge Kavanaugh has come forward in your interview with him, and letters from folks who support his integrity.

I don't know how the committee will ultimately make a decision without more evidence. But frankly, that's the challenge we're going to face tomorrow.


MACCALLUM: But you've already made your decision, you said you believe that she is credible. So, you have made your decision on that. Is that correct?

COONS: Martha, I made my decision to vote against Judge Kavanaugh based on his legal jurisprudence. Based on my questioning of him about presidential power. That's a decision I reached last week before this became of a central issue.

MACCALLUM: You're not answering my question about whether or not you've already decided that she is credible.

COONS: I think she has brought forward credible allegations. And I think if she presents credible testimony tomorrow, that will leave a significant cloud hanging over Judge Kavanaugh --

MACCALLUM: Well, the President just said moments ago that he's going into --

COONS: -- that he's going to have a chance to clear his good name.

MACCALLUM: The President just said he's what -- he's going into this with an open mind he said. He could change his mind about Judge Kavanagh tomorrow so I don't really see much point to the whole exercise if that isn't the way everybody feels on both sides. So we'll see. Thank you very much, Senator. We'll be watching tomorrow. Thank you for being here tonight.

COONS: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So still ahead this evening, this Arizona prosecutor will ask the questions on behalf of Republicans. So who is she? Next.


MACCALLUM: So by tomorrow at this time we think this hearing, this historic hearing should be behind this but you never really know in this story but we will be more familiar with this person Arizona sex crimes prosecutor Rachel Mitchell who is tapped by the GOP to question both Judge Brett Kavanaugh and his accuser Christine Blasey Ford. Mitchell poised to face scrutiny as the battle surrounding the President's Supreme Court nominee becomes increasingly polarized. Kristin Fisher is live in Washington tonight with the backstory on who this prosecutor is. Good evening, Kristin.

KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, most Americans have never even heard of Rachel Mitchell, but that'll change tomorrow because she's expected to ask most of the questions for the Republicans on the committee. They're all men and she just finished meeting with them on Capitol Hill. Now, she is a powerhouse sex crimes prosecutor in Phoenix with a 26-year history of convicting police officers, doctors, teachers, and priests.

She's been named Arizona's outstanding sexual assault prosecutor, as well as the Maricopa County Attorney's Office Prosecutor of the Year. She's currently the head of the County Special Victims Division, a job she's held for the last 13 years. Senator Chuck Grassley the Chair of the Judiciary Committee says Mitchell has been recognized in the legal community for her experience and objectivity. And her boss, her current boss, Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery says the American people can be confident that Rachel Mitchell's experience as a conscientious prosecutor trained to seek justice, protect victims and pursue truth, will assist the Senate Judiciary Committee in performing its task.

Now, Christine Blasey Ford's legal team and Senate Democrats have opposed the hiring of an outside counsel from the very beginning. They want the Committee's Republicans to have to question Kavanaugh and Ford and they also don't like the fact that Mitchell is a registered Republican. But Martha, Mitchell's colleagues, they described her as a career prosecutor, one that's bound to the issues and not politics. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Kristin, thank you very much. So coming up next, Melissa Hennessy was also at those parties back in 1982 in that summer with her friend Brett Kavanaugh and she's here to answer some of the big questions about what she witnessed.


MACCALLUM: Reports tonight of a new allegation of misconduct against Brett Kavanaugh. This one is coming from 1998. It's being reported by NBC and it involves a "woman who was sort of shoved up against a wall aggressively and sexually she says, by Brett Kavanaugh after a night at a bar in Washington D.C. and this is a later allegation, as I said it's 1998. So we're going to bring you any new details as we get those.

Meanwhile, two women who knew Judge Brett Kavanaugh as teenagers defended him here exclusively on this story. Watch this. And now -- all right, just a second. And now a third accuser comes forward with allegations of misconduct. More are coming to his defense including 60 men and women who attended Georgetown Prep or sister school's out with a new letter of support to directly refute allegations released earlier today by Michael Avenatti saying "Brett Kavanaugh is a good man. He has always treated women through respect and decency. He is a man of honor, integrity, and compassion. These shameful attacks must end. This process is the disgrace and is harming good people."

There are also letters of support for Christine Blasey as well from her friends and supporters. My next guest Melissa Hennessy has known Judge Kavanaugh for more than 35 years. She was also at these parties that he describes when they were in high school. Melissa, good to have you with us today. Thank you very much for being here.


MACCALLUM: So you know, first of all, let's put the calendar up again because this calendar I think is going to become an interesting part of this equation. And he kept this calendar and he saved it and he turned it over to the investigators, and it details beach week which has now become an issue in this latest allegation by this woman who says that she witnessed this horrific behavior of gang rape and people waiting on line to go into bedrooms and she says that she saw Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh waiting on one of those lines. What do you say?

HENNESSY: I say there's no way that happened. Martha, I've known Brett for so long and we all went to beach week. All of the boys schools and the girls' schools and we would go as big groups and you know, these were typically three-bedroom condos we'd rent with twenty kids. I mean, there were people all over the place. There is no way any of that could have happened. I just think somebody would have seen it. And we all talked. We're very, very close.

MACCALLUM: So -- and when you look at these three women who have made these allegations, now Ramirez is different because she's at Yale. She's not making a high school accusation but the other two women are and maybe we can put their pictures up on the screen. Do you know either of these women? Do you recognize them?

HENNESSY: No, I don't -- I did not recognize them. I didn't even recognize their names quite frankly. Brett and I graduated 83 and I think Dr. Ford graduated in 84 so she would have been a year younger than us and I honestly just don't remember the name.

MACCALLUM: So this new allegation and it's very sketchy we're just getting this new allegation, but it's a woman who says that in 1998 she was out in Washington D.C. with him and she describes behavior that is somewhat similar to some of the other descriptions that we've gotten with this sort of aggressive you know, pushing up against a wall, and she claims that her daughter witnessed it. She was there with them and three other people who were also there witnessed it.

So you know, when you hear all of these different allegations and they have similarities in them, how do you -- how do you square the fact that it doesn't match up at all with the person that you know?

HENNESSY: I mean, when I first heard these, Martha, I couldn't even wrap my head around this. It was not the bread I knew. I mean, we dated. He was always so sweet and kind. I just -- I can't-- the whole group we ran with was so wonderful. We all got along.

MACCALLUM: What about Mark Judge? What can you tell me about Mark Judge?

HENNESSY: Oh, Mark Judge was kind of funny. He loved The Who, he loved Rock And Roll. But I can't even imagine him -- none of these guys. And I keep -- every time I open another newspaper or something, another name comes out and I feel like oh, for heaven's sakes, I -- there's no way any of this happened.

And I don't know why anyone would even accuse Brett of something like that. He was a great guy in high school and I even catch up with him kind of through college and post-college until I moved to Chicago. It was always wonderful seeing him. He was always so nice and respectful, and I can imagine that he was the same guy in the 90s when I was here in Chicago and he was still back in D.C. This is beyond belief.

MACCALLUM: I mean he referred to this latest allegation as ridiculous and he said he felt like he was in the twilight zone which kind of sounds like what you're saying as well that it just seems like completely divergent parallel realities which I guess everybody's going to try to figure out in some way to reconcile when this hearing happens tomorrow. But why do you think Mark Judge hasn't come forward to stand up for him more since he is the person who's placed in the room by Christine Blasey Ford?

HENNESSY: Well, you know, he's placed in the room by Dr. Ford, but you know Mark Judge -- I don't think had anything to do with this. So I feel like why does he need to step forward to defend himself or Judge Kavanagh if nothing even happened.

He probably feels if he says anything, they are going to attack him. And I would be a little bit nervous if I were him also. People make up these stories and now anyone is fair game. It's getting crazy, it really, really is.

MACCALLUM: Melissa, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here tonight. We will see where this whole thing goes. Good to have your side of the story. Thank you.

HENNESSY: Thank you, Martha, have a good evening.

MACCALLUM: You too. So joining me now Charlie Hurt, opinion editor at the Washington Times, and Jessica Tarlov, senior director of research at Both are Fox News contributors. Good to have both of you with us.

Jessica, you know, let me start with you. I mean, this is -- this is very tricky.



MACCALLUM: I mean, these people are giving completely diverging stories about the same -- the same person.

TARLOV: The same person, yes and also about Mark Ford -- Mark Judge--


TARLOV: -- which your last guest have referred to. He has an ex-girlfriend now who has come out and said that she can testify to the fact that these parties, these line up parties which is what today's new accuser the one who has a sworn affidavit and is being represented by Michael Avenatti said was going on at these parties. I think, you know--


MACCALLUM: But I just want to point out, I'm just going to interrupt, because this girlfriend from what I read today and you tell me if you, you know, heard something different, she says that Mark Judge talked about this but described as consensual.


TARLOV: It is consensual. Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: But he said I feel bad about some of these things that I did in high school but it was all consensual. There is a total big huge difference.

TARLOV: Well, there is an absolutely huge difference between that but there is also an absolutely huge difference between how Brett Kavanaugh has been portraying himself and the fact that these parties did exist and that he may have been in the quote, "lineup."

MACCALLUM: All right. Let's take a look at this sound bite and then I'm going to get Charlie in on this. Let's watch.


TRUMP: Women are very angry. You know, I got 52 percent with women. Everyone said this couldn't happen. Fifty two percent. Women are so angry. And I frankly think that I think they like what the Republicans are doing but I think they would have liked to have seen it go a lot faster.


MACCALLUM: So just to set that up he is talking about women who he says are speaking out on behalf of Judge Kavanaugh, Charlie. And he says that he is hearing from a lot of women. I've also heard from women who, you know, from both sides of the fence. But there are definitely a lot of women out there who think this process is horrific.

CHARLES HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, and I think that's really why the most troubling part of all of this, I mean, obviously the accusations are the most troubling part of it, but in terms of what's going on now.

The most troubling part of it is the fact that you have these very serious allegations that they're leveled, you know, and it's not the typical sort of high school stupidity that you would expect from under aged drinking kids. It's predatory behavior. It's disqualifying.

And you have a United States Senate where you have you -- you know, members out and out saying that the burden is on accused t prove that he's not guilty. And you have people dismissing the whole notion of due process.

And you have somebody like Senator Gillibrand going on the Senate floor today and start banging her desk talking about how, you know, we don't -- we're not looking to put him in jail to sit in a courtroom. We just want to get to the truth as if our entire court system isn't set up to do just that.

And it really does sort of begin to make a lot of people think that this is just turned into a partisan football like these people here in Washington do with everything. And this is far -- this is far too serious to be your typical partisan political football.

And I think Republicans have bent over backwards to make sure that they treat Dr. Ford with respect. Treat her allegations with respect. They do want to hear her story and that is ultimately what the president said today during the press conference was that, you know, he's open to listening. He wants to hear what she has to say.

But you know, Brett, none of this is in a vacuum. Brett Kavanaugh has built a sterling reputation for himself over a long period of time.


HURT: I would argue that a predator like that doesn't change his stripes when he grows up.

MACCALLUM: We will see. Thank you. I have to leave it there.

HURT: Sure.

MACCALLUM: You guys, I'm sorry. Thank you very much. We'll see you next time.

HURT: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to have you both tonight.

So President Trump took dozens of questions today at the U.N. on a wide ranging press conference. We're going to show you some of the highlights from that with U.S. Ambassador Ric Grenell who is back in the states today from Berlin and he joins me next.


TRUMP: He was saying that China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain. He said Donald Trump they don't know what to do.



MACCALLUM: So President Trump spared almost nobody at today's press event at the U.N. Unleashing on Canada, China and a slew of others. Watch.


TRUMP: Why has President Trump given so much to North Korea? I said if I wasn't elected, you would be in a war. And President Obama essentially said the same thing.

He was saying that China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain. He said, Donald Trump, they don't know what to do.


MACCALLUM: They don't know what to do. Here exclusively is Ric Grenell, the U.N. Ambassador to Germany. Ambassador, good to have you back on American soil from a bit. Nice to see you.


RICHARD GRENELL, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO GERMANY: Thanks. It feels really good to be here.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for being here. So, one of, you know, part of your job is representing the United States. It is your job and Germany and then other parts of the E.U. And the president talks about the relationship that he has with different countries. What do you see when you are out there speaking to other ambassadors and dignitaries about the president?

GRENELL: Look, I think the facts are speaking for themselves. In Germany, for instance, they are seeing that we have 33,000 American troops. We just announced 1500 more. So they're seeing the action of defense spending.

They can deal with some harsh words because they know that they don't have submarines that work. They know that they don't have transport helicopters that work. They have a military that is completely not ready and they've been reliant on the United States.

So when Donald Trump says you probably should have a military that's ready, they know that that's true. But no one has ever really said that that directly.

The interesting part is just NATO spending, for instance. That was the policy of President Bush who I work for. It was the policy of President Obama. Nothing changed. But, when there is a forceful hey, this isn't a fair relationship.

By the way, what I have been saying in Germany is we're not asking Russia and China to increase their military. We are asking our friends. We are asking the people that we want to serve side by side with which when there is a crisis.

So I'm trying to remind people, too, in Germany that when it comes to defense spending the American people are spending a lot of money on the 33,000 American men and women. But the American people don't have free healthcare. They don't have free college tuition like what the Germans and the Europeans have.

MACCALLUM: Great point.

GRENELL: So when I remind them and they get the context they start to come around.

MACCALLUM: And it's also a pretty tough message to Russia when you are building up NATO and you're building up all those forces on the border. It sends a pretty strong signal even though the president has been accused of being too soft on them.

Now one of the big focuses that you had is with Iran and was encouraging companies to stop doing business with them. We have a list of companies that we can put up on the board that have all cut their ties with Iran and you were instrumental in working on that.

GRENELL: They're not very happy about this but, look, this is a -- this is an issue for me that's very personal. I worked on this issue inside the Security Council for eight years. I've seen the evidence. Iran is very deceitful. They push gays off buildings. They are a regime that funds terrorism.

I would argue that Syria and Yemen are in chaos largely because of Iran funding. Largely because of Iran's chaos. What I have been making the case to the Germans is to say all of your migration problem, at least a large portion of it, you can blame on Iran and the chaos in Syria. So, you must stop funding the regime.

And when we talk to the CEOs and we say it very clearly, they choose, the United States, and by the way, we don't sell that.


MACCALLUM: Not that tough a choice really when you put it to them that way, is it?

GRENELL: Well, we tell them. Look, you get to choose where to do business. We're not telling you where--


MACCALLUM: With Iran or with the United States.

GRENELL: But you can't do both. You can pick one but you can't do both and we are watching. And so, I presented it to them to say you get to pick.

MACCALLUM: Do you think Angela Merkel will survive politically?

GRENELL: She, you know, it's really hard to say what happens next. There is a lot of maneuvering right now. She just lost a major vote yesterday. The parliamentary vote. It was a big hit. But I think that she is a survivor and I think that she knows how to adjust.

MACCALLUM: Do you think she respects President Trump?

GRENELL: Absolutely. I've been in the room actually where they've negotiated back and forth. President Trump respects the chancellor. He looks across the table and he sees someone who has the largest economy in all of Europe. That to President Trump speaks volumes.

And I've actually heard him say I don't blame you. I don't blame you for outmaneuvering us on the surplus. I don't blame you for outmaneuvering us on tariffs. I would have done the same thing if I was representing Germany.

MACCALLUM: Ambassador Grenell, thank you. Great to see you.

GRENELL: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: Good to have you back in the United States. We'll see you soon. So when we come back, President Obama and now Michelle Obama going head to head with President Trump as we get closer to the midterms.


TRUMP: He said what do you think of President Obama's speech? And I said I'm sorry, I watched it. But I fell asleep.



MACCALLUM: Former President Obama and the former first lady back on the world stage and taking advantage of the spotlight once again that turn a heat up a little bit on the current president.

Trace Gallagher has that story from our west coast newsroom tonight. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. The former President Obama didn't go after the current president by name but the context behind his comments certainly pointing that direction.

Remember, it was the Obama administration that ratified the Paris climate accord back in 2016, and President Trump who backed out of the agreement in 2017.

So when Mr. Obama addressed business leaders in Oslo, Norway, he drew a bright line between what he believes is happening now versus when he was in the Oval Office. Quoting now, "The single highest priority that I see globally at this point is the issue of environmental sustainability."

Obama then went on to say "The only way to achieve that sustainability is if leaders adopt newer technology," saying quote, "but that takes political and social commitment that right now is not forthcoming."

He ended by saying he now fears, quote, "rising protectionism and authoritarianism in the U.S." since he left office.

The former president's comments in Norway come just days after the former first lady tried to fire up a crowd in Las Vegas by berating the current state of U.S. politics.

Mrs. Obama is involved in an organization that promotes voter registration. And in a spirited call for people to get out and vote in the midterms, Michelle Obama took a swing at the administration saying, quote, "Believe me, I'm frustrated, too. I am sick of all the chaos and the nastiness of our politics. It's exhausting and, frankly, it's depressing. I understand wanting to shut it all out but democracy continues with or without you." Here she is. Watch.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Voting does not require any kind of special expertise. You know, you don't need to have some fancy degree to be qualified to vote. You don't have to read every news article to be qualified to vote.


GALLAGHER: By the way, we are told the first lady will also be attending other events aimed at trying to rally voters ahead of the midterm elections. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. So Murphy Brown becomes the latest in a long list of reboots but is the once beloved Murphy hoping to do a show that everyone will watch?


CANDICE BERGEN, ACTRESS: We haven't really articulated that we consider ourselves the resistance. But I think that's a subtext, certainly.


MACCALLUM: Jesse Watters ready to take on Murphy Brown and also the man spreading bleach attacker, watch out coming up next.


MACCALLUM: The iconic sitcom Murphy Brown making a comeback after 20 years and while the debut episode has yet to air I think it airs tomorrow night, the series is already falling flat with some critics partly due to the overt take on politics perhaps. Watch this.


BERGEN: We had to do something, get the old gang together, take on this crazy new world of alternative facts and fake news. It's our civic duty.


MACCALLUM: Even the New York Times writing, quote, "Murphy Brown returns but not for the better," is their take. We haven't seen it yet. So we'll see.

Here now from Wednesdays with Watters, he is co-host of The Five and host of Watters World, Jesse Watters. Hey, Jesse.


MACCALLUM: Good to see you.

WATTERS: You too.

MACCALLUM: Shall we play little piece of what is out there? Let's play this Murphy Brown and get Jesse's take.


BERGEN: We haven't really articulated that we consider ourselves the resistance but I think that's a subtext, certainly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Hillary had won, you guys probably wouldn't be here.

BERGEN: I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think so. We didn't feel like we should go back and revisit it unless there was a reason to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this was a reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it got us pretty close, you know, but when you look at what's going on on the front page of the newspaper every day, that's what put us over the top.


MACCALLUM: We just had to do it. We had to make sure that we got out there and alienated half of the country.

WATTERS: There are sitcom activists. They've admitted that. And this is a little--


MACCALLUM: Going to do it for free, I'm sure.

WATTERS: I'm sure. And this is the network sprinkled little propaganda before the midterms. I understand that. I did not watch in the 90's. I was a Seinfeld fan.


MACCALLUM: You were too young.

WATTERS: So I have no idea what they are doing. But if I wanted to watch someone with Trump derangement syndrome I just watch CNN.

I don't think this reboot is going to be as effective as Roseanne that had a lot more fresh edgy material with a lot more talent. This looks like just tired rethreaded conventional liberal jokes about Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Steve Bannon. So I don't think this is going to do very well.


MACCALLUM: It's a sitcom laugh track in the back.

WATTERS: Yes. Fake laughs from fake news.

MACCALLUM: Let's take a look at -- have you seen this woman who is on the subway in Russia and she is pouring bleach on men's pants. I think we have a little bit of video.


MACCALLUM: She pours, if they are manspreading--

WATTERS: Men spreading.

MACCALLUM: -- which I would call in some of these cases just sitting.

WATTERS: I would consider that sitting. That guy look as little spread.

MACCALLUM: This is insane.

WATTERS: I know.

MACCALLUM: What do you think?

WATTERS: I mean, if she tried that in New York City on the F train I don't think -- I don't think you would make it out of that car. But listen, I man spread on the train. I will admit it. But here's what I do. I unmanspread when someone is looking for a seat. So I'm a conscientious manspreader.

MACCALLUM: OK, that sounds good. Do we have time to do the other one? OK. So let's take a look at this video because this really disturbed me. Yo know, regardless of how you feel about Ted Cruz and people have all kinds of feelings about Ted Cruz. This is so horrible.


MACCALLUM: Even Beto O'Rourke was like, this is bad, guys. Surrounded him and his wife Heidi. She is a very nice woman. Chased him out of the restaurant. But what we learned today is that they went back after the restaurant corralled all these folks and got them out of there, they were able to come back in and finish their dinner. What do you make of that?

WATTERS: Well, I like how the restaurant owner handle it. He said it's like elbows, keep the politics off the table also. And I agree with that. I would send Maxine Waters the bill for the restaurant. Because these are her people. She wants people to go in the restaurants and go crazy.

And this happened to me one time, Martha. During the 2016 presidential election I was across the street eating steak, watching the returns come in and right after Trump won Wisconsin, a woman come up to me and threw a drink in my face.

MACCALLUM: You are kidding me?

WATTERS: And I was actually happy because the restaurant comp me the dinner. So, you know, I was OK with that. But, these things happen.


WATTERS: These things happen.

MACCALLUM: What kind of world do we live in?

WATTERS: Watters world.

MACCALLUM: Where people go -- well, you live in that world, which you know, we don't want (Inaudible). But that is -- it's just crazy.

WATTERS: Very uncivilized.

MACCALLUM: So now, you know, we are getting all of these accusations that continue to come out. A couple more tonight. What we're learning is that basically the Senate judiciary committee is doing an investigation. Which is exactly what they said they were going to do.

So the one story that I mentioned the other moment that came through from NBC about the woman who said she was having dinner with her daughter is one of the things that's been called in. So a number of these are anonymous. They are coming in. Is this ever going to end, do you think?

WATTERS: I don't know. I think you will probably see them still come in after tomorrow's hearing by the rate they are coming in now. And they're all unsubstantiated with no witnesses. So I was willing to give Ford the kind of the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to, you know, hear what she had to say and maybe she did believe something happened to her and I wanted to trust that.

But if you keep getting more allegations after allegations after allegations it looks likes, as the president said, a con job. Because the suspicious timing is a little too much for me.

MACCALLUM: We will see. Did your parents let you rent condos with 20 other kids when you were 14 or 15 years old and spend an entire week at the beach?


WATTERS: No, no. I was grounded most of the times.

MACCALLUM: I mean, aside from horrific allegations just the partying part and the beer.



WATTERS: Not in my high school, that did not happen.


WATTERS: You know, I was mostly at the library.

MACCALLUM: Yes, right.

WATTERS: Yes, I was behaving myself. Why are you laughing, Martha? What's so funny? You were too, right?

MACCALLUM: I just find that really hard to believe.

WATTERS: OK. My credibility is shot.

MACCALLUM: And I was thinking back to Brett Kavanaugh who is arguing exactly that. That he was studying and he was behaving himself the whole time.

So tune in tomorrow morning. We'll be watching. Jesse, thank you.

WATTERS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you as always. That's our story on this Wednesday night. I will be back in D.C. tomorrow morning to host live coverage of the Kavanaugh hearing alongside Bret Baier beginning at 9 a.m. tomorrow. And then "The Story" live from D.C. tomorrow night. Until then, please stay tuned for our good friend Tucker Carlson who is coming up next from Washington, D.C. Good night, everybody.

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