'Your World' on tax charges against Trump organization, Biden's visit to Surfside

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Trump Organization, CFO Allen Weisselberg plead not guilty to tax charges

Fox News contributor Jonathon Turley weighs in on the criminal charges on 'Your World'

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," July 1, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, work is stopped for the time being, as the president of the United States arrives at the Surfside area wreckage area.

Well, that's what it looks like right now, but they still hope the vine. Those who survive. The problem is right now the weather and tricky problems around the site itself, where they have been seeing some underlying materials collapsing.

We're waiting to hear from the president, who has already met with a number of families involved here, as well as those on the scene handling all of this. When he speaks, we will go to him, but all of this at a time when the count remains 18 dead and 145 still unaccounted for. And all of this in the wake of a storm that's miles off the Florida coast and posing a potential threat to those rescue efforts.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World," and a busy hour ahead. We will be hearing from President Biden shortly on his trip to this area. He couldn't get as close as he wanted to originally because of the tenuous nature of the -- and overall safety issues at the site.

Let's go to Phil Keating in Surfside with more -- Phil.

PHIL KEATING, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, President Biden and the first lady left Washington, flying in here early this morning, marking one week to the day that half of Surfside's Champlain Towers South condo building plummeted, pancaked right down to the ground.

Happened at 1:30 in the morning, while most of the residents were, of course, as you imagine sleeping. The first thing the presidential motorcade did was arrived about 12 blocks north of here in the neighboring town of Bal Harbour, where he received a command briefing of this desperate operation.

Meeting him were the Florida and federal leaders of the search-and-rescue mission, as well as the governor, Ron DeSantis, U.S. Senators Marco Rubio and Rick Scott, as well as the Surfside mayor and Miami-Dade County mayor.

He then met with first responders and search-and-rescue team members, the people doing the heroic work on the pile of rubble for the past week. After that, he then met with family members of the 145 condo residents who remain unaccounted, as well as residents of the building who survived, but have lost everything.

That part of Biden's day was closed to the press.

Here was his message to the first responders and search teams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We understand anybody (OFF- MIKE). What you're doing now (OFF-MIKE) psychologically.

And I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEATING: Now, the brown tower you see behind me, that's all that's left of the condo tower that collapsed. Roughly half of the building went down to the ground.

The president was possibly going to make his way to the disaster site himself and see it firsthand. But due to the danger that this remaining tower structure still remains, that was called off.

The first lady and the president will be departing Miami later this afternoon -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Phil Keating, thank you very much for that.

Here are a couple of things we're waiting for, besides just the president, as Phil outlined here, but any update on when the search in all of that wreckage can resume.

They're dealing with a number of elements, as Phil just outlined, including a major storm, a tropical storm not too far off the Florida coast and for which, at least at this time, it seems to be directly headed.

Then there is the issue of the loose footing around the site itself. And that adds some worry, because there was one rescue worker who dropped about 25 feet. He's OK. But that's how tenuous stuff is at the site itself.

There is a separate legal issue building among those who have already started writing class-action lawsuits and now calls for a grand jury investigation to take up what happened here and what could happen at other locales, if the city and the state don't move quickly.

Let's get the read on all of this with Charles Burkett. He's back with us, the mayor of Surfside, Florida, who was among those meeting with the president today.

Mayor, very good to have you back.

How are things looking there, sir?

CHARLES BURKETT, MAYOR OF SURFSIDE, FLORIDA: Good to be here, Neil.

Bad. We're stopped. And we're waiting for a report from engineers. The work had to stop at the site about 2:00 this morning because, apparently, there were some who reported movement in the building. The site had to be evacuated.

And we are looking now to our engineering teams to give us options on how to proceed.

CAVUTO: Now, I know you were with the president today. He wanted to personally thank first responders as well. How did that go?

BURKETT: It went well.

There were three separate meetings. The president met with about 20 of us in a private meeting. And we all gave him an update. We each spoke to him. I was fortunate enough to speak to him and talk to him about the little 12- year-old girl that I had met praying next to the rubble where her dad is missing.

And the president was kind enough to look at me and ask me to bring the girl, so he could meet and comfort her, which he did. And I'm very grateful for that.

He -- and it was super compassionate, super loving. He walked up to her and hugged her and told her he was going to do the best he could for her. So, I was grateful for that.

The president then went and met with the first responders. He congratulated them on their superior work. He told a few stories, which was really reassuring. Then we went in and met with the families. There were many, many, many tables full of families.

And the president went around to each and every one of them and comforted them, hugged them, and gave them reassuring messages. So it was, all in all, a very, very, very productive day and a heartwarming day and an uplifting day, except for this problem we're having here at the site.

CAVUTO: How long do you think that problem goes on, Mayor?

BURKETT: Well, you know, minutes and hours count.

And I met with Governor DeSantis this morning. And I had a private conversation with him about this very issue. And it's obvious that the building is a problem. And he and I talked about that issue. And I think we agreed that, if the building is a problem, we have to make the problem disappear.

And I -- to that end, I put my building official on alert to reach out to demolition companies and get the process started. So, if Mayor Cava makes the decision to take the building down, we're not further delayed.

The state of Florida also did the same thing, I believe. The director of emergency management, Kevin Guthrie, was also super helpful in that. And we stand by. We're ready. We're very eager to learn what Mayor Cava is going to decide to do, because the families are out of their minds with worry and fear and desperation. And we can't just be there doing nothing with all these teams ready to go.

CAVUTO: So what would that involve, then, Mayor, if you take the building down?

You want to clear the area, I would assume, but what is involved with that?

BURKETT: Well, I'll tell you, what is involved is, we wouldn't take it down towards the east, because that is the pile of rubble that we have victims in, and hopefully live victims.

CAVUTO: Right.

BURKETT: We wouldn't take it down to the south or the north because we have buildings there. The only possible direction to take it down is to east -- or west, rather, where we have Collins Avenue and we have got some tennis courts, all things that can be replaced.

So, you know, that is a distinct possibility. It's a possibility that I discussed with the governor and I also discussed it with both of our senators when I saw them a little while ago when we were talking with the president.

And I think the sentiment is that something has to be done, action needs to be taken. And waiting around is not an option.

CAVUTO: Mayor, there were reports -- and I heard it in the session earlier today that you were attending -- of rescue workers hearing a female voice.

I don't know if I got the whole thing right. And then, when they were trying to pinpoint exactly from where it was coming, they stopped hearing it. Could you update me on that, or any noise, sound at all that could be signs that there's life under there?

BURKETT: I heard the same thing, Neil.

But I remind you of a BBC report that I keep pointing to that talked about people surviving in building collapse scenarios and under the rubble. And there was one instance where a lady was pulled out of the rubble after 17 days crying, which gives us all hope and is lifting us up even in this difficult moment where we have stopped working.

So, as far as I'm concerned, we keep going until the last person is pulled out of there. We have no reason -- President Biden said that resources are not a problem. As I have said from the beginning, we don't have a resource problem. We have a luck problem.

And we just need to overcome that luck problem.

CAVUTO: Mayor, thank you very, very much, Charles Burkett, the mayor of Surfside, Florida.

He's been there every single day, early morning, late at night. We thank him for giving us an update on all of this.

In case you have just tuned in, there is no rescue work going on site right now. There are structural engineering issues, a couple of workers who've had some bad falls, one in particular a 25-foot fall. And now they're facing the prospect of a tropical storm barreling down directly on that area.

Matt Finn has been following all of these developments, because it's that structural issue that has halted any rescue efforts at all.

Matt Finn will be joining us very, very shortly. They're getting him set up on the site.

We are also hearing separately that those in the north tower who you hear so much about, the sister tower, most are staying in that tower. Now, we talked to one resident of that tower that said that he has been assured, despite concerns about cracks elsewhere that were there, we're told for some time -- maybe people are more aware of them -- that they have not been told to abandon the building.

So most of those residents in that sister building about a block away are staying there.

Now to Matt Finn with the latest of the site itself -- Matt.

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, this search-and-rescue site is already extremely dangerous, precarious and fragile, so much so that, overnight, it had to be entirely evacuated. You could see the remnants of the Champlain Towers in the distance.

Now we have the threat of Tropical Storm Elsa that has the potential to threaten this site some time around Monday. The governor said earlier today that they are not concerned about the time between now and Saturday. They're in the clear between now and Saturday.

Beginning around Monday, Tropical Storm Elsa could potentially threaten this area. As of right now, the death toll remains at 18 dead, including two children, 145 people still unaccounted for.

Heartbreaking news for the family and loved ones here, every second so critical. And the search-and-rescue right now has been brought to a standstill.

FOX News also spoke to a young woman here named Nicole Ortiz, whose sister and nephew died in the collapse, 46-year-old Anna and 26-year-old Luis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE ORTIZ, VICTIMS' RELATIVE: All days, I was there both times. Sometimes, I missed it because it's too much. It's really hard.

A lot of people are waiting. And it's really hard. It's really -- there's no way. There are no words to describe the waiting and the desperation. I mean, we want to go there and pick ourselves the rocks to take our family out, but we can't do that.

So it's really hard. There's a lot of emotions going on there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINN: Nicole lost two family members. And, sadly, she still has three missing in-laws who lived in the building. She tells us it's heartbreaking, as you heard her describe, not knowing if any of those family members could still be alive trapped in the rubble, subject to South Florida's brutal weather, extreme humidity, heat and intense rain on and off.

And right now, Neil, we spoke to officials a short while ago. No word on if the search-and-rescue will resume here. So we will keep you updated -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Thank you, Matt, very, very much.

As Matt touched on, the president of the United States is in the area, didn't get directly, and for the better part of valor and safety for all involved, not to the actual destruction area, but he is going to address those in the area and the nation shortly.

We will take him live when he does.

Stay with us. You're watching "Your World."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: After all these years and millions of dollars, it comes down to this, the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization getting slapped for not paying taxes on perks and benefits.

Maybe it's a little more involved than that, but a lot of Trump loyalists are saying, from this, they are gleeful.

Eric Shawn on what went down in a New York City courthouse today -- Eric.

ERIC SHAWN, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Neil.

Allen Weisselberg, 15 counts charge in a $1.7 million tax fraud scheme, according to prosecutors. Mr. Weisselberg has been a longtime employee, confidant and trusted official in the Trump Organization. And now he is charged with 15 counts in this alleged tax fraud scheme that prosecutors said also involved the Trump Organization.

Both Weisselberg and the Trump Organization pled not guilty to these charges. Weisselberg is 73 years old. He has been considered former President Trump's closest business adviser. He has worked for the Trump family for almost 50 years. He is accused of conspiracy, criminal tax fraud and other counts in what prosecutors said was an off-the-books tax fraud scheme designed by the company and Weisselberg to avoid paying taxes by giving Weisselberg and other executives of the Trump Organization secret pay raises.

The indictment says the company paid for Weisselberg's apartment, his electric, cable TV, Internet and phone bills, paid for a Mercedes-Benz, and even footed that $55,000 private school tuition for his grandchildren, with the company, they say, paying all of this off the books and Weisselberg, as is the, law, failing to declare the perks as income.

The charges, though, are seen as an attempt to try and pressure Weisselberg to cooperate in an ongoing probe of the Trump empire. But lawyers for the Trump Organization slam the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not appropriate. And, quite frankly, it sets a precedent. I think, in 244 years, we have not had a local prosecutor go after a former president of the United States or his employees or his company.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHAWN: Well, in a statement, former President Trump said -- quote -- "Radical left New York City and state prosecutors will do anything to stop the MAGA movement and me, even if it involved prosecutorial misconduct and harassment of a political opponent, which they are using at levels rarely seen before."

But, in court, the prosecutors said that politics plays no part in this case.

Meanwhile, Mr. Weisselberg left the courthouse behind me on his own recognizance. He had to give up his own passport. So I'm wondering if prosecutors are going to try to use this to try and pressure him to flip and cooperate with prosecutors in a wider investigation, or if he is the first of what could be more Trump Organization officials who will be caught in the prosecutors' crosshairs -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Eric Shawn, thank you very, very much.

Want to go to Charlie Gasparino, who has been following this case very, very closely over these many years.

Charlie, I kept scratching my head. We both did, I guess, earlier on, when -- that this would be the result, and maybe far more clever heads than my own are looking at this and saying, this is a means by which we get the CFO to flip or turn, because, if found guilty on something like this, it's to 15 years in prison.

I don't know if it would ever come to that. But what do you make of that and this whole drama today?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, they -- as we said on FOX Business earlier, your show on FOX Business, that a lot of people are thinking they may throw a grand larceny charge in there, because that could up the amount of years of jail time he faces.

And he did do that. So there's no doubt in my mind or anybody that is -- any lawyer that covers this stuff, white-collar attorneys, that's who I have been speaking to. There's no doubt that, in the Trump administration - - in the Trump people's minds. I mean, I have been speaking with people in the Trump Organization.

They believe that they want that -- that the prosecutor wants, Mr. Vance, the Manhattan DA, he wants Mr. Weisselberg to flip on the organization, on Donald Trump Jr., on Eric Trump, and on Mr. Trump himself, the former president, on a big -- much bigger tax fraud scheme case, tax fraud case, along the lines that the fixer Michael Cohen, when he was before Congress laid out, which said that they were playing with the books, inflating their assets when it's -- for insurance purposes to cover more stuff, deflating them for tax purposes to pay less taxes.

Now, the way this is so weird and falls apart when you talk to a lot of lawyers -- and I have been spending the last couple days talking to them -- just unpack this for me. If you have spent five years on a case like this, with all the documents and subpoenas that Mr. Vance has come up with, and Mr. Weisselberg would be part of that alleged scheme he's looking at, right, because he's the CFO.

The most you got on Mr. Weisselberg as part of that scheme, from the documents at least, is these perks. It seems like -- it seems penny-ante. It doesn't ring true.

Yes, they want him to flip. There's no doubt about that. Everybody knows that. But digest that for a minute, five years, looking at this alleged scheme. There's only four people that could be really in the scheme in a principal way, Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Mr. Trump himself, and Mr. Weisselberg, the CFO. I mean, there might be others, but those are the principals.

And...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But, today, it was only Weisselberg. Today, it was only Weisselberg. Is there anything that you're hearing...

GASPARINO: Yes, but the one guy you indict is on this.

CAVUTO: Right. Right. That's it.

GASPARINO: Yes. I mean, it's pretty penny-ante. And that's what people are saying.

They think it's weak tea. Clearly, Cy Vance, who's -- by the way, he's out of office by the end of the year. He's a longtime Democrat.

CAVUTO: Right.

GASPARINO: We should point out that he's joined by a very partisan Democrat in this case, Letitia James, the New York attorney general.

These are hardened political people. And it's -- I'm telling you, I spoke with academics today that have no horse in the race. They think it's political. If you talked to John Coffee over at Columbia, you talk to Charles Elson at the University of Delaware there, it looks political, because this is not -- this is not Watergate here.

They did not uncover something.

CAVUTO: Yes, it was not -- it was clearly -- to your point, my friend, was not what we thought.

Charlie Gasparino, thank you very, very much.

Again, I could be missing something. I'm not a lawyer. But I know a pretty good one who's coming up right now, Jonathan Turley, on all of this, a G.W. law professor.

What am I missing here, Jonathan?

This has been -- I don't want to play on an old expression -- five years, $10 million, and all I got was the lousy T-shirt that said I'm going to be fingered on not paying taxes on benefits. Is that what this comes down to? Or am I missing something?

JONATHAN TURLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No, you're not missing something. And we're all looking for something here.

It was bizarre to see James and Vance parading into the courthouse. And this isn't -- this is clearly sort of a trophy kill case for James. She ran on the pledge to bag Trump and his associates. But they paraded into the courthouse like they had a rhino on a spit. In fact, this is sort of pretty small game. It's not enough to mount.

And the question here is, they're obviously talking about nailing a 73- year-old glorified accountant for perk violations. This is almost never charged in a criminal case like this. It's usually handled civilly.

At most, he's probably looking at a year when you really boil it down, and probably not even that. He's a first offender, even if they were to convict him. So the question is, why are they doing this? And the answer is rather obvious. This would not have happened except for the political dimension.

These are prosecutors that pledged that they would bag Donald Trump or his associates. But what they came up with was basically benefits that should have been claimed on taxes for a car, an apartment, and Internet access, and tuition.

Now, those things may indeed be violations. But in terms of a trophy kill, this ain't much. And it really gets the feel more of a sort of a thrill kill. People love it. They love that someone associated with Trump is now being led in. Michael Cohen is saying, they got him.

There's a recreational thrill to this, which is really discomforting. I think people need to look at this and say, well, there is a person here. I don't know this person, nor do most other people. But we have gotten to a point in this country where we no longer treat these figures as human beings.

People get so much joy out of the thought of all of this, and they're going to hoist a wretch. And that's really sort of disconcerting.

CAVUTO: I know you're not an accountant and all, but you might be. You're so smart.

But some of these so-called crimes might have come at a time when you didn't have to pay taxes on a lot of the benefits or perks that a lot of companies gave you. The companies themselves would pay the taxes on that. So there's a lot we don't know about that.

But, again, it keeps coming back to, this is it? Am I missing something that could be leading to a separate kind of head-fake here?

TURLEY: Right. No.

CAVUTO: What do you think?

TURLEY: Right.

No, there -- that's true. That is, first of all, what they're investigating generally is ubiquitous among corporations, this idea that corporations undervalue assets for tax purposes, overvalue them for loan purposes. That is ubiquitous in the field.

And in terms of benefits, oh, my lord God, you would have to frog-march most of the corporate executives out of Manhattan if they were going to prosecute something like this. And so it is really -- this is really troubling, the degree of effort put into this, a bloated prosecution, a joint team.

They come up with this. They're obviously trying to pressure him to flip. But I'm not sure they came up with enough to really be as coercive as they would need to get him to do more than he has done, even if he has something that is worth offering.

CAVUTO: Yes, this didn't do it.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: We shall see.

TURLEY: By the way, what is...

CAVUTO: Go ahead.

TURLEY: Yes.

And this -- frankly, illegally this is similar to the crackdown on Major League pitchers for substances on their hats. The only difference is that they're not arresting these guys off the mound. I mean, this was a common practice of pitchers. These are common practices of businesses.

Is it a good practice? No. The question, though, is should it be the subject of a major criminal investigation?

CAVUTO: Or to chase a former president of the United States.

Jonathan Turley, thank you very much, my friend.

All right, we are up on a lot of things. Still waiting on President Biden. He is in Surfside. He is going to address those in the area, didn't get as close as he wanted to, to the site, the rescue site, but he is going to talk to them and address the nature and the greater whole.

We're also on top of developments about this defund the police movement, a worry for some progressives when no less than Jim Clyburn says that that kind of talk is akin to cutting the throats of the Democratic Party.

He's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, going to President Biden now.

He's addressing families, has spent the day doing so, and now the American people.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

BIDEN: ... leading this national effort

But Governor DeSantis, Senators Rubio and Scott, Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Major Cava, they have been -- they have all cooperated in ways that I haven't seen in a long time. And it's really a testament to just how difficult things are down here.

And it's what, quite frankly, we miss a lot. We all have been working in tandem from the moment we got the news of the collapse of the building.

And I think my colleagues will tell you, we cut through the bureaucracy. The one order I gave the federal folks was, no bureaucracy. Just cut through it. Get to whatever they need. That's why we decided to cover, for example, 100 percent of the search-and-rescue costs for the first 30 days. Not done often, but necessary here, in my view.

And FEMA is going to provide temporary housing and other urgent needs for the survivors. The State Department is expediting visas for family members from other countries. And there are from Latin America, South America, Europe, Israel.

And I want to give a special shout-out to first responders, International Association of the Firefighters, one of the best organizations in the country. And I particularly want to thank the president. Ed came down from Boston. And he's here with the entire group.

You know, these folks are -- these folks are always showing up no matter what. They're risking their lives. There's that old expression. And I know the press that travels with me is tired of hearing me say it, but I'm not tired of saying it. And that is that expression God made man, then he made a few firefighters.

They're remarkable, remarkable people, They're always risking their lives to save lives, as well as the police and other first responders. I got to meet with a whole bunch of them. And we were able to deploy nearly 500 personnel, including five other search-and-rescue teams on the ground today here, because our FEMA director ordered it.

I want to compliment FEMA, and I might add all those folks for risking their lives to save lives, but also holding out hope for those to be found. Hope springs eternal.

When I talked to the first responders, I pointed out that they're under a great deal of stress, and we should take advantage, they should take advantage of the mental health facilities that are going to be available, because, we talk about our military suffering from post-traumatic stress.

Well, seeing what they're seeing and doing what they're doing, understanding how much trauma is involved, I just don't want them thinking that they should walk away from help if it's needed.

You know, they stand together. And it's really impressive. And there's also the need, in addition to state and local assistance, to determine the cause of this collapse and the adjacent buildings, how safe they are. There are two outstanding concerns.

First, the remaining buildings may collapse -- the remainder of the building may collapse. We need to determine if it's safe for first responders to return to the site to continue their rescue mission. That's being done right now. And that's why I asked the National Institute of Standards and Technology, NIST, to investigate to see if it's safe to go back and what caused the building to collapse in the first place, because we're committed not only to recover, but to restore the safety across the board.

But the other reason I came down was to meet with the families. The whole nation is mourning with these families. They see it every day on television. They're going through hell, and those who survived the collapse, as well as those who are missing loved ones.

I realize I'm a little late because I spent a lot of time with the families, a whole lot of time. And I apologize for taking so long to get here, because I thought it was important to speak to every single person who wanted to speak to me.

So, after what you all covered when I opened up the meeting, I spent the remainder of the time. And I -- and such incredible people. I sat with one woman who had just lost her husband and her little baby boy, didn't know what to do.

I sat with another family that lost almost an entire family, cousins, brothers, sisters. And to watch them and to -- they're praying and pleading that, God, let there be a miracle. Let there be something happen for me that's good, because I have, like many of you do, some idea what it's like to suffer that kind of loss that so many of them are suffering.

They had basic, heart-wrenching questions. Will I be able to recover the body of my son or daughter, my husband, my cousin, my mom and dad? How can I have closure without being able to bury them if I don't get the body? What do I do?

Jill and I wanted them to know that we're with them and the country is with them. Our message today is that we're here for you as one nation, as one nation. And that's the message we communicated. We will be in touch with a lot of these families continuing through this process, but there's much more to be done. We're ready to do it.

And, again, I thank the governor. I thank my colleagues, my -- Senator Scott, Senator Rubio. I thank Debbie Wasserman Schultz for their total, complete cooperation. There's no disagreement, no bickering. Everybody is on the same team.

It's what America is all about. It's about pulling together, leaving nobody behind. And that's what made me feel -- the one thing that made me feel good about this is the cohesion that exists. There's no Democrat or Republican out there. There's just people wanting to do the right thing for their fellow Americans.

So, may God bless the victims and their families and may God protect our first responders. And I will take a couple questions right now.

QUESTION: Mr. President, what were you told about the likelihood -- you said hope springs eternal -- that somebody will be able to be pulled out alive from this? And what were you able to convey to the families about that possibility?

BIDEN: Well, look, first of all, the families are very realistic.

They know, the longer it goes -- and one of the things that the local FEMA personnel, as well as the local first responders did is, they took all of the families to the site to see, to see what it looked like up close. And they're all realists.

They all look and they see those floors, just literally feet -- cement upon cement upon cement. I -- when I talked to some of the families, some of the people who did escape, who survived, get out, they talked about watching the building collapse and watching as they were in the garage one floor come down, literally as a whole floor on top of another floor.

They know that the chances are, as each day goes by, diminished slightly. But, at a minimum, at a minimum, they want to recover the bodies. They want to recover the bodies.

There's a lot of very religious people who are in there, members of -- the rabbis in the Jewish community talking about the need that they recover the body and be able to bury them, give them -- and the -- anyway, so I think they're realistic, Mike.

But I don't think that that in any way suggests it's to -- that we should stop. I think that we should move on, continue to try to recover the bodies.

In the meantime, that's why NIST and others are determining whether or not it's safe to send the first responders back. When they would ask me about this, I would point out that the last thing they would want and we would want is, in the process of trying to recover -- and the possibility -- there's still a possibility someone could be alive, someone could still be breathing, someone could be there, that the last thing you want to have happen is have that building collapse and kill 10, 20, 30, 50 firefighters or wound them or first responders.

So -- but, Mike, they're realistic. I -- it just brought back so many memories. It's bad enough -- it's bad enough to lose somebody, but the hard part, the really hard part is to not know whether they are surviving or not, just not have any idea.

When the accident took my wife and my family, the hardest part was, were my boys going to get out? Were they going to make it? The not knowing, not knowing. When you're flying home from Washington to get the news, you just don't know.

So, it's -- but I was amazed. As you know, unfortunately, I have done a lot of these circumstances where I have met with families who have had great loss. And what amazed me about this group of people was the resilience, their absolute commitment, their willingness to do whatever it took to find an answer. I walked away impressed by their strength.

And Nancy at Bloomberg, do you have a question?

QUESTION: Thank you.

BIDEN: I was told.

QUESTION: Oh, thank you.

Yes. What did you learn, if anything, about the collapse of the building? Is there anything more you learned from investigators or the FEMA administrator?

BIDEN: No, it's under way. I don't -- the director of FEMA is with me here.

We don't have any firm proof of what's happened. There's all kinds of rational speculation about whether or not the rebars are -- were rusted, whether or not the cement, whether it was limestone or not, whether or not -- but a lot of the families who survived talked about how upset they were that, in the last years that they have been here, how there was one condominium complex built across the street, and a road was purchased.

And while they were living there, they would hear the drilling and they would feel their building moving and shaking. There are all kinds of discussions about whether or not they thought that water level rising, what impact it had.

And interesting to me -- I didn't raise it, but how many of the survivors and how many of the families talked about the impact of global warming, how much it -- and they didn't know exactly, but they talked sea levels rising and about how -- and the combination of that and the concern about incoming storms, incoming tropical storms.

And so -- but I don't think there is at this point any definitive judgment as to why it collapsed and what can be done to prevent it from happening and what other buildings may have to be inspected to determine if they have the same problems.

I'm supposed to head out and catch up with the governor.

So, I want to thank you all for taking the time.

QUESTION: Mr. President, can we ask you about two matters away from where we are now?

The first is, while you have been speaking, a top associate of the former president has been in a New York court pleading not guilty to various financial charges. Do you have a reaction to that?

And, secondarily, if I can, does the Supreme Court's ruling today on an important voting rights decision add to the sense of urgency you feel about pursuing voting rights legislation at this time?

BIDEN: I know nothing about the first circumstance, because I have been gone. I don't have any idea, so I'm not going to comment on that. And even if I did, I wouldn't comment on an ongoing case, if it's an ongoing case.

With regard to the second point, I think I did get a summary on the way down on the plane of a Supreme Court decision.

It is mildly positive, in the sense that there's a remedy available, based on the particular voting decision.

I think that it is critical that we make a distinction between voter suppression and suspension. The ability of a state legislative body to come along and vote, their legislature vote to change who is declared the winner, I find to be somewhat astounding.

But the Supreme Court rule -- did not rule that way today, to the best of my knowledge.

And -- but I will have much more to say about that, because I plan on speaking extensively on voting rights and as well as going on the road on this issue.

So, thank you all very much.

CAVUTO: All right, the only non-Surfside, Florida, issue to come up, again, on that voting rights measure, and, of course, the Supreme Court news on that.

But, more to the point, the president focused on meeting with members, families in this condo collapse, "We are here for you as one nation," and urging calm, also urging safety. Right now, there is no rescue operation going on, on the site at Surfside, simply because of some engineering issues and some giving -- ground that's been giving away around the site itself, and that it's that, an approaching storm, a tropical storm, that will be right now directly in sight of Southern Florida.

But, again, he is hoping and most are hoping to resume that rescue effort today.

We were talking to the mayor of Surfside a little bit earlier, who said that that is something that he is strongly urging local authorities to return to.

Sarah Gounder joins us right now, because there's another development here for which we're tapping her expertise as a top attorney, the lawsuits that are mounting after this horrific disaster.

And, Sarah, one of the things I was hearing -- and the president was echoing it too from families who had heard from their loved ones of issues that were coming up, cracks and leaks and noise that all seemed to telegraph something more serious.

They could never have envisioned something like this, but a number of lawsuits have already have been filed, separately, a grand jury to take up this whole issue to explore not only what happened here, but whether it could extend to other buildings.

So, legally, Sarah, where do you see this going?

SARAH GOUNDER, ATTORNEY: I see this going towards more lawsuits in the future, not just with the south tower, but other condominiums in the area.

The mayor yesterday was on your show, and he mentioned that there is an assessment being done on the north tower. And I think that's an important point to make, because, although it was prompted by the south tower collapse, I think condo associations are going to have to take note of what's going on here and be more proactive about the assessments and repairs that they're making.

Now, there's still an investigation as to what the exact cause was in terms of the actual cause of this incident. But I think that associations are going to have to make a note of what's happening here and be more proactive moving forward.

CAVUTO: More proactive generally means more expensive, right?

I mean, if you think about it, the condo association president in this south tower case had issued a report back in April, sending it out to residents there, look, we have got some major repairs due. I'm paraphrasing here, Sarah. But it was a $15 million assessment that would have unit owners paying anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000. And her plea was to get that money fast.

I mean, is that what we're looking at now, that condo boards, for the better part of valor here and caution, now have to start taking a hard look at these issues, and they find themselves liable if they don't?

GOUNDER: Yes, and I think it's important to note what the duty of the condo association legally is here.

And that is of a reasonably prudent association acting in the ordinary duty that it was. And so, as a part of that, they are going to oversee the control of the common areas of the building. And that includes the parking structure and the pool itself.

Now, you just mentioned on something very important. There was notification given to the condo owners here that there needed to be repairs, but they experienced a lot of pushback from the condo owners in regards to the fees that were going to be associated with this.

CAVUTO: Right. Right.

GOUNDER: So -- yes, so we're going to just wait for the investigation here for more information, and also the outcome of the grand jury as well.

CAVUTO: Got it.

Sarah, thank you very much.

And to your point here, we're -- obviously, lawsuits and then legal issues will come up. Right now, the focus, quite properly, in Surfside is to find survivors. They're still optimistic that there are -- there are living human beings under that rubble.

So, we will keep an eye on that.

I want to go to James Clyburn right now, the South Carolina Democrat, the House majority whip.

But I said, representing South Carolina, a beautiful state, it's a beautiful coastline, I was thinking, knowing that we were going to talk, Congressman -- always good to have you.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: That there's now an effort way beyond Florida to address these types of building codes for structures, particularly along coastal areas. You have a lot of beautiful ones in your state.

What do you think of that?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, I think that's something we need to really take a hard look at.

Thank you very much for having me.

So...

CAVUTO: Congressman, I'm sorry. We seem to be having some audio problems with you. That might be our fault on our end.

But we're going to try to patch them up.

We're going to take a quick break here and continue with Congressman Clyburn on these latest developments, as well as the defund the police movement. He's concerned about that too.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, back Congressman Clyburn.

I hope we have everything working now, sir. I'm sorry for the problems.

I was addressing what's happening with this nationwide movement to look at high-rise structures, particularly those along the coasts. You have quite a few in South Carolina.

Do you endorse that move, a nationwide look at and buildings and their structure and certification, particularly those near water?

CLYBURN: Absolutely. Absolutely.

(AUDIO GAP)

And (AUDIO GAP) still see signs...

CAVUTO: All right, Congressman, I cannot believe this, but we lost it again. It's not deliberate.

I apologize for that.

I do want to go to Congresswoman Nancy Mace, a Republican of the same state, South Carolina.

I will pick up, Congresswoman, with what I did with your colleague from your beautiful state.

This issue of reexamining building codes, safety codes for structures, particularly those on the water, what do you make of that?

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Well, certainly.

And Congressman Clyburn and I, we both have coastal areas and our districts are neighboring one another. When we have hurricanes and tropical storms, particularly in Charleston, South Carolina, and surrounding areas, flooding is an issue, whether there's a storm or not a storm.

So seeing the footage at Surfside, and some of the water issues that you saw previous to its collapse are very concerning, and all the other environmental factors that we have. And I'm particularly concerned with newer developments that haven't withstood the test of time or storms.

Those are very concerning. I do believe it's something we have to look at, which is why it's all the more important that we really focus on traditional infrastructure. We have enormous needs in this country right now.

CAVUTO: You know, a lot has been said about this rush to build on coastal areas themselves, sometimes within near feet of the ocean. I know it's an issue that's come up in your state.

And there are other locales where they keep buildings, residences, single- family or high-rises, a ways from the ocean itself. We don't know, Congresswoman, whether that was at issue here.

MACE: Right.

CAVUTO: And I don't want to jump the gun on that. But a lot of people are talking like that. Do we have to reassess that?

Do you think we do?

MACE: Well, I do think you're right that we need to take our time and see this site fully investigated, so that we know what is actually happening and what is actually going on.

And, in fact, just before I came on your program -- I just flew in from D.C. today. I read a headline online that there was another structure in D.C. that collapsed today. And so these are issues that will be top of mind. And once we see an investigation at Surfside, we will be able to know if it was environmental or if it was construction and engineering issues, rather.

CAVUTO: Got it.

Congresswoman, I would be remiss. I mean, I was speaking to your colleague House Majority Whip Clyburn. And one of the issues I wanted to bring up was a comment he made to The New York Times where he fears this defund the police movement that has sort of taken hold of some in the party is akin to cutting the throats of the Democratic Party. He's worried about it.

He had echoed concerns that I heard from Michael Dukakis, the former Democratic presidential candidate, who fears the same thing, that it's not a good strategy, in fact, a harmful one. What do you think of that?

MACE: Well, the polling behind that, Americans do not support defunding the police.

In fact, we should be defending the police. And defunding the police really hurts the communities that need the most protection. And, here, Jen Psaki earlier this week saying that Republicans want to defund the police, well, this is sort of brazen gaslighting.

And I think it's because they're trying to deflect from the increase in statistics we have seen of increased crime around the country. And then you have these far left progressives that are running campaigns based on defunding the police.

It's a very dangerous message, particularly when crime is up. Portland, Oregon, it's up over 800 percent. In D.C., we know it's over -- up over 35 percent. But all across the country, cities, Charleston, where I am right now, we have seen an increase, which is the same as everywhere across the country right now.

CAVUTO: Yes, Congresswoman, the White House is essentially -- that is, Jen Psaki, the White House spokeswoman, doubling down on her comments that Republicans are really to blame for this, pointing to the earlier spending package, and the $1.9 trillion spending package.

And I'm wondering. I don't see police referenced there. Or when you were voting on that, did you -- did you see anything about that in there?

MACE: Not until afterwards.

And, sometimes, there are all of these amendments. We're talking about thousands of pages -- $547 billion in a surface transportation bill this week, there's all sorts of goodies in there. And what I have learned in my first six months in Congress is that -- is that you try to get people on gotcha votes and messaging legislation, legislation for P.R. purposes.

And I'm sure that's where this is buried somewhere in there. But the truth of the matter is, we -- the infrastructure package itself is being held hostage by Democrats. And this, I believe, is just a deflection from bad legislation.

We saw what the continued COVID-19 package did. People were not going back to work because we're finding -- we're paying them to stay home through unemployment. The surface transportation bill is a lot of money. The larger overall infrastructure package, over a trillion dollars, possibly $2 trillion, that wasn't going anywhere.

They have got a lot of problems right now. And I get why they're pushing back, but this one isn't going to stick.

CAVUTO: All right, so when it comes to future spending initiatives, besides the infrastructure one that might or might not look good, is it fair to say that any follow-up spending to that, you would have serious, serious doubts about passing and approving?

MACE: Absolutely.

And one of the reasons that I don't support the infrastructure package right now and what's going on is that Senate Republicans and Democrats worked very hard for a very long time to put a bipartisan package together.

But, today and over the last few days, Nancy Pelosi has been trying to hold hostage that package to get $5 trillion more in spending on Green New Deal or art and sculptures and infrastructure, human infrastructure, and other wasteful spending.

And right now, especially coming out of the pandemic, where we have $28 trillion in debt, our deficit is approaching $3 trillion, we're talking about potentially $65 trillion of spending over the next 10 years.

We can't continue to do this. We can't continue to kick the can down the road. And, in fact, a year-and-a-half ago, the government, federal, state and local, literally shut businesses down and didn't do anything. They held businesses to a totally different standard.

And I just wish the government would live by the same standards it imposes on other businesses. And right now is not the time to be raising taxes or spending more. We should all be looking at our checkbooks.

CAVUTO: Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you very, very much, commenting on those developments.

We apologize again to her South Carolina colleague Jim Clyburn. Sometimes, that happens. Mics go out. Technical wires don't meet. We hope to get him back in soon.

By the way, the congresswoman was referring to another Washington building that collapsed today. It was on the 900 block Kennedy Street Avenue. It was a full collapse of the building that was apparently under construction.

One person is trapped. Several others are injured, on a day and at a time these things are getting a lot more scrutiny than they used to.

That'll do it here. Here comes "The Five."

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