'Your World' on 2022 economic outlook, COVID test supply shortage

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This is a rush transcript from "Your World," December 28, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JACKIE DEANGELIS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Apple now limiting in-person shopping at its New York City stores.

"Ain't Too Proud: The Life and Times of the Temptations" the latest Broadway show to announce that it will be closing. Goldman Sachs will require booster shots to enter its offices, as Omicron cases continue to surge across this country.

Welcome, everyone. I'm Jackie DeAngelis in for Neil Cavuto with a very special edition of "Your World."

First, let's get straight to Steve Harrigan in Atlanta with more -- Steve.

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Jackie, the CDC making it official that Omicron is now the dominant strain of COVID in the U.S. More than 58 percent of new cases have been determined to be Omicron. That is double the percentage of just one week ago.

And, as you mentioned, economy being hit hard. Multiple states, including New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, they're all setting records for the number of new cases in the past week, Broadway shows shutting down, number of stores either limited, business or no business at all.

Goldman Sachs, the bank making the case that, as of February, it will only allow staff and visitors into its U.S. offices who have the booster shot, not just fully vaccinated, but the booster as well, Israel experimenting with a fourth COVID vaccine, that experiment with about 150 medical personnel, all volunteers.

They might need that vaccine for population in danger, especially the elderly. U.S. medical officials say it is too early to tell whether the U.S. will need that fourth shot, and, finally, colleges extending winter break, dozens of them.

Princeton University going one step further, not only extending the break, but saying, once they return, undergraduates will not be allowed far from the campus, except in extraordinary circumstances -- Jackie, back to you.

DEANGELIS: Steve Harrigan, thank you so much for that.

Meantime, economists are warning that the economy could take a hit early next year, as COVID shuts down businesses and travelers cancel their plans.

The Wall Street Journal's John Bussey with me now on just how big of a hit.

Good to see you, John.

Your colleagues talked about this in The Journal today. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's, taking his first-quarter GDP estimate down from 5.2 percent to 2.2 percent, saying that the economic damage is mounting here.

JOHN BUSSEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: So, Harriet Torry has a good story on this WSJ.com right now.

As you say, Zandi took it down. And Zandi is in good company. A number of other forecasters are also saying that the robust expansion that they expected in the first quarter is probably going to be more sort of moderate. Still, a growing economy and an economy our size growing at 2.2 percent-plus is still a pretty good show.

We're going to have to see. Some of that also might be sales for companies that are pushed to the second quarter. In other words, you would see recouping of some of that growth in the second quarter if Omicron continues to affect the first quarter as much as they expect.

But that is -- that's a number that you're seeing kind of across the board of forecasters downgrading the first quarter, after a very robust economic growth in 2021.

DEANGELIS: There seems to be a tale of two markets here, if you will, what's happening actually in the economy, what's happening in the stock market as well.

The stock market feels pretty bullish. We have got a Santa Claus rally on our hands. And investors think that Omicron will blow over and then we will return back to our reopening phases and it will be business as usual.

At the same time, you look at some of these numbers, some of these forecasts are pretty scary.

BUSSEY: Yes, I don't think that Omicron is going to blow over. And I will bet you that most of the economists are pretty concerned about it as well.

But I think what you're seeing is, the disconnect is that the economy has, in some regards, learned how to adjust to the pandemic. And so you're seeing people not going to restaurants as much as they might have in the third quarter. Up to -- the week up to December 26, there was a -- in- restaurant seating was down about 27 percent, people saying, Omicron out there, I'm concerned, I'm not going to buy services, like going to the restaurant.

However, a lot of the economy has moved online. And we saw that over the last year to 18 months, that the consumer stays pretty active online. So, I think the economists are expecting the adjustment to take place, companies to say, work from home. We're going to retain these employees. We're not going to let them go.

It was a heck of a time getting them back on the payroll because of a tight labor market, so you're going to continue to be paid, and the consumer continuing to buy, but just different types of products...


BUSSEY: ... that will support the economy, but perhaps not be in the services area.

DEANGELIS: But it's interesting, because you see here in New York City specifically some actions to sort of close the city down in some ways, not fully, like we saw last time, but you have got limited service on the subways now.

There's a great article in The Post today talking about how restaurants are turning away families, tourists that are here because their children, small children, are unvaccinated and how people are walking away from the services. As you suggest, it's difficult to believe that this won't have an impact, at least on major cities like this one.

BUSSEY: Yes, and flight cancellations.

You saw that also over the holidays, planes not flying. Why? Because pilots were sick or flight attendants were sick. You're going to continue to see that. We have a lot of people who have still not gotten vaccinated in the U.S. That's going to disrupt the economy. That's going to disrupt health care.


BUSSEY: You're going to see hospitals filling again, not being able to take the surge. You're going to see a lot of elective surgery having to be postponed again because beds are taken up by COVID patients, people who, despite the all the good advice out there, have still not gotten vaccinated.

So there will be disruptions like that. But I think the economist, in looking at even 2 percent growth in the first quarter, that's pretty optimistic, given the circumstances. And that, I think, is a reflection of the fact that they feel that the economy has gotten resilient...


BUSSEY: ... has managed to find a way to operate productively through these surges of the pandemic.

DEANGELIS: We will see. We will be watching closely.

Thank you so much, John, for your insight. Always great to have you on the program.

BUSSEY: My pleasure.

DEANGELIS: All right, well, new COVID guidelines cutting quarantine times to five days. And the question is, will that get more people back to work quicker?

With me now, Dr. Kevin Campbell, cardiologist and CEO of K Roc Consulting.

So, Kevin, what do you think? Do you think that these quarantine -- the shrinkage of the quarantine times will help, that, to a certain extent, the CDC is saying, OK, this is very contagious, but, for most people, their symptoms are mild, so let's let them get back out there?

DR. KEVIN CAMPBELL, CARDIOLOGIST: Jackie, I think it was the right move.

I think that what we're seeing is what happens when you test asymptomatic people routinely. You have a lot of positive tests that are people who are really not sick. So I think limiting that quarantine makes sense. We know that the virus is most transmissible in the first couple of days after symptoms occur and a couple days after they occur.

So I think that this makes a lot of sense to me.

DEANGELIS: Yes, John kept talking about the economy. And he mentioned the fact that there are still people who are unvaccinated, but remember that two-thirds of this country is fully vaccinated.

I know so many people who are vaccinated and have a booster shot and they are getting Omicron. They are getting this strain of the coronavirus. And they are saying their symptoms -- their symptoms are mild. So, to a certain extent, it seems like the administration's focus on vaccination, vaccinations, I'm not necessarily sure that anybody was immune here.

CAMPBELL: Well, I do think that vaccination is a good strategy, because it has prevented severe illness and death.

What we know is, if folks aren't vaccinated, they're the ones that are going to the hospital and in the ICU and having complications from COVID- 19. The folks that have gotten two shots have about a 30 to 50 percent protection against the Omicron variant. If you get the booster, it's upwards toward 75 to 80 percent.

So I'm still a real proponent of getting vaccinated, because I think it's making a difference in the death rate with COVID.

DEANGELIS: Doctor, France reporting nearly 180,000 new COVID cases in a 24-hour period, this, of course, as cases are skyrocketing across this country as well.

Are we nearing a peak here? The question everybody has with this is, how much longer?

CAMPBELL: We tend to look towards the U.K. We tend to reflect. When they peak in England, we tend to seem to peak a few weeks later. So we're kind of looking at what's going on over there.

And I think we're probably getting close to that peak. But, again, the thing to remember is, this is usually mild and self-limited, unless you're unvaccinated. Then we see more severe illness. It's so important to get vaccinated.

DEANGELIS: In this city, we're very vaccinated. A lot of people have booster shots, and we're already talking about what the next booster shot will be.

CAMPBELL: I think it's important to remember that this is also an evolving science.

And I think a virus' whole job in the world is to replicate and continue to survive and adapt to whatever we throw at it. The key is to continue to evolve in the science and make sure that we have the appropriate vaccine.

You might recall, every year, we have to guess at what the flu vaccine is going to look like.


CAMPBELL: We do our best guess, and that's what we give folks.

And that may be something we see with COVID going forward.

DEANGELIS: Yes, yes, we have talked about these mutations.

Doctors like yourself have told us that they were on the way. And yet, somehow, we were somewhat caught off-guard by this one.

Doctor, great to see you today. Thank you so much for your time, sir.

CAMPBELL: Thank you for having me.

DEANGELIS: All right.

Well, talk about a nightmare after Christmas, travelers facing yet another day of flight delays and cancellations.

Our own Mike Tobin getting a firsthand look at the chaos -- Mike.

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the airlines are trying to get back to normal back on schedule, but the Omicron variant and a little bad weather are not helping.

I will have the details coming up.


DEANGELIS: Welcome back, everybody.

We have got flight fright, for a fifth straight day, travelers facing more cancellations, more delays, as airlines grapple with COVID-related staffing issues.

FOX's Mike Tobin is live from Chicago O'Hare International Airport -- Mike.

TOBIN: Well, Katie (sic), the airlines are trying to get back to normal.

If you look where I am right now, it's terminal three at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. And that is where American Airlines operates. America is not having such a rough go of it today, with less than 20 flights canceled. Not so for some of the airlines. Some of them are really getting clobbered today. And weather is playing a significant factor, as well as the Omicron variant.

Things really started getting bad on Christmas Eve. The staff for the airlines started to mimic what was going on in the general population with a spike with the Omicron variant and COVID cases. They started calling in sick. And pretty soon you didn't have enough staff to operate all of the flights.

Throw in some bad weather, and you got thousands of people stuck in the airports.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, my flight was canceled yesterday, yes, so...

QUESTION: Round two today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, unfortunately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had originally a five-hour layover, which turned into like an 11-hour layover, and then the flight got canceled. So I'm back today to try and get on another one out today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taxied all the way down the runway. They stopped and sat there for a second. The pilot comes on: "We got some bad news for you."

And everyone goes: "Ahh."


TOBIN: Now, yesterday, some 1,200 flights were canceled.

This morning, it looked like things were heading in the right direction with only 700 flight cancellations. But, as the day wore on, the flight cancellations climbed back over 1,000. Weather did play a significant role in that.

If you look at FlightAware.com and the Misery Map, the red indicates cancellations and delays. You can see places like O'Hare, they got some bad weather. Seattle-Tacoma got clobbered with weather, and they had a lot of cancellations out there.

Now, the CDC cut the isolation time in half for an employee who comes down with COVID or tests positive for COVID if they are asymptomatic. We will see moving forward what that will do in terms of getting the airlines back on track. And, of course, it'd be nice if weather would cooperate -- back to you in New York.

DEANGELIS: Mike Tobin, thank you so much for that.

Switching now from travel troubles in the skies to the seas, at least 86 cruise ships are now under CDC investigation following COVID outbreaks just as the industry was starting to make a comeback.

Joining me now to discuss, travel expert Mark Murphy.

Mark, fully vaccinated individuals, individuals who have their booster shot, as the doctor was saying in the segment before, are seeing mild symptoms when it comes to COVID. So is there any particular reason that people don't want to cruise, other than the fact that they're scared?

MARK MURPHY, TRAVEL EXPERT: Well, I think cruising has always had this hurdle, which is misperceptions about you will be bored, you will be trapped on the ship, et cetera. And that's always been a challenge for the cruise industry.

Then there was norovirus, which were those stomach flu outbreaks that they had, and you would have them on different ships throughout the years. And people get concerned about that. But they have a lot of hygiene and protocols on board prior to COVID ever happening.

What's really interesting is how every other major industry has been able to operate. I mean, you can fly in a plane, which is like flying in a beer can, for 16 hours to Asia. There haven't been any outbreaks that we know of trace back to air travel, yet you can't go on a cruise for about a year and change.

Then they finally start up, and the cruise lines unfortunately when with this, we have to have everybody vaccinated. And the reality is, the vaccine protects the user, the person who's vaccinated. It doesn't stop spread and it doesn't stop infection.

So you're still going to have these on an ongoing basis. The idea of COVID zero is never going to happen. The idea that everybody has to be vaccinated to go somewhere is never going to happen with natural immunity.

I think the travel industry has to get off their arses and say, hey, you know what? We're a business. We employ globally 10 percent of all workers. And the ancillary impact goes well beyond the people working in the cruise industry. It affects the ports they go to. It affects the hotel operators. It affects -- it impacts the Uber drivers, restaurants, you name it.

So it's really having a devastating impact, especially in countries that rely almost exclusively, like a lot of the Caribbean, on tourism.

DEANGELIS: Yes, you bring up a really good point there. People will get into the little sardine can in the sky. They will wear their masks, even though they're fighting about it, yet they're afraid to travel on a cruise ship.

MURPHY: Right.

DEANGELIS: And also the travel industry, I think there's just so much fear in general that's keeping people from doing things that they want to do at this point, and a lot of confusion about what the procedures should be also.

MURPHY: Well, look at the changes.

Florida was open basically over a year-and-a-half ago, and everyone was on the governor of Florida about the spike in cases. We're now talking about cases.

With the vaccine, no one's talking about we have had far more deaths under Biden with the vaccine than we ever had under Trump without a vaccine. But then they keep saying everybody's got to get vaccinated. So anybody who knows math can go, OK, we have had more deaths, we have had more issues, we have more cases, yet the same people that said, if you get vaccinated, it's going to go away...


MURPHY: ... are the same people that are saying, get vaccinated.

I have natural immunity. I'm not getting vaccinated. My doctors tell me I don't need to get vaccinated. Yet some nut on a plane is going to scream at me because I might not be vaccinated?


MURPHY: Or I can't go on a cruise because I'm not vaccinated?

It makes zero scientific sense. And I think the cruise industry has painted themselves into this corner. And they better figure out how to get out of it, because the entire travel industry is going to continue to get hammered as a result of these policies.

DEANGELIS: Yes, I hear you. They have taken a big hit. And it's going to be difficult to make a comeback at this point.

So great to see you. Always appreciate your insight.

MURPHY: Thanks.

DEANGELIS: All right, well, it's not just the lines at the airports as well, long waits for COVID tests also frustrating a lot of people out there.

Our next guest experiencing that firsthand. She's also the author of the book "An American Sickness: How Healthcare Became Big Business and How You Can Take It Back," Editor in chief of Kaiser Health News, Elisabeth Rosenthal.

Elisabeth, the fear in New York City, if you walk outside, you see these COVID testing stations, and the lines are still around the block. This is really frustrating, when we knew we were going to see spikes, when we knew we were going to see variants, and we don't have enough tests.


I'm here in D.C., and I called my quest for a test a kind of five-day scavenger hunt, the kind of that we were used to at the very beginning of the pandemic, where we were looking for toilet paper or masks or hand sanitizer.

And we really shouldn't be in this place again for testing, because it really is crucial.

DEANGELIS: Yes, tests are coming according to President Biden, but they won't be here until next month, and many people say it's just too late.

Anecdotally, I have spoken to people in the city who say these lines are too long. They're just not bothered to wait in line to get a test at this point.

ROSENTHAL: Well, in my case, I had multiple reasons for wanting a PCR test.

I'm -- we had upcoming Christmas plans, I didn't want to infect my husband. I knew I'd been -- had a serious exposure. And even more important that, I'm on an immunosuppressive drug, so I could be eligible for monoclonal oils. But I needed a pretty rapid-turnaround PCR test for any of those things to happen.

And I couldn't find one. I went online, and I found dozens of places saying that they did offer them. But that was the theory. These are mostly private places or some of the government sites in D.C. And the lines were either long.


ROSENTHAL: The turnaround was three to five days, which was useless, or, even more infuriating, there were commercial ventures -- you see them all over in New York -- where if you pay or if you -- you can get a pop-up test.


ROSENTHAL: But the turnaround is slow. And I even saw sites where it was like $300 if you want one-hour turnaround, $250 if you want 12.

And that just shouldn't be happening. And I think it's really good that President Biden has this plan for expanding testing for free. But, unfortunately for him Omicron, before that plan -- Omicron hit us before that plan could be enacted. So, here we are.

DEANGELIS: You mentioned the monoclonal antibodies.

And we did see two new pills coming out. We got the emergency use authorization from the FDA, but they're going to be out in limited supply. The antibodies are also not readily available.

And these are treatments and therapeutics that we have known about for the last two years. A lot of people are frustrated, if they do become infected with COVID, they can't get the treatments they need.

ROSENTHAL: Yes, and the important thing is, to get any of those treatments, you need a documented PCR-positive test.

And those treatments all work best if they're given quickly. So, if you're waiting five days for a PCR test result, you have missed the opportunity.

DEANGELIS: Yes. I totally understand. A lot of people very frustrated and hoping that things will change soon. This has been difficult, not just here in New York City, but across the country.

Thank you so much, and good to see you.

ROSENTHAL: Thank you for having me.

DEANGELIS: All right.

Coming up next: Progressives pushing to build back solo, but can President Biden go it alone on his social spending plan? Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell on that.

Plus, why you may want to make your New Year's resolution to walk more. And here's a hint. It's got nothing to do with exercise.


DEANGELIS: Oil prices gushing to a one-month high. Could we see a surge to $100 a barrel in the new year? One expert predicting it. We're going to talk to him about that next.

We're back in 60 seconds.



RUSSELL VOUGHT, FORMER OMB DIRECTOR: This is one part face-saving and one- part Hail Mary, trying to spook Joe Manchin possibly into thinking that somehow Biden administration is going to be able to wave a magic wand and enact $5 trillion of spending.

That's just not possible. There's a constitutional provision that requires Congress to appropriate money to be able to have spending. And there is no appropriations in this case.


DEANGELIS: That was former OMB Director Russell Vought questioning progressives' push for President Biden to take executive action on Build Back Better.

My next guest is the deputy whip of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell joins me now.

Congresswoman, welcome.

You heard that sound bite there. I ask your response.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So, first of all, I think the holidays came at a good time for the entire Congress. Everybody needed to take a deep breath and get some rest. And we will go back in January and go back to the table.

There are many things that a lot of people want in the Build Back Better bill, like lowering the cost of prescription drugs. Employers are desperate to get people into jobs, the child care issue.

There are some things that can be done by executive order. And I will give you an example. I worked very hard, because I never wanted the issue of CAFE, Corporate Average Fuel Economy, to go near the Hill.

But I worked with the auto companies, the union workers, the environmentalists, and people reached agreement. And the president held an announcement at the White House in August and, by executive order, set a target goal of 50 percent electric vehicles by the year 2030.

I think we got to do more getting everybody at a table, and less using talking points. And I do believe we're going to get some of the very critical programs we need. And the problem is, we're using Build Back Better to ascribe a lot of policies. And people don't know what the policies are.

DEANGELIS: Well, it's interesting, because you sound like you're saying, let's get back to the negotiating table, let's try to work on some sort of a bill. You probably can even get Joe Manchin on board if you cut certain things out of it.

But there are some in your party to the extreme left that are essentially saying, forget Build Back Better. President Biden, you start writing executive orders and just do some of this yourself.

And part of the problem there, Congresswoman, of course, is that the executive orders can be reversed. And you can't achieve the same goals with the executive orders either.

DINGELL: I agree with that.

It is always better when Congress tries to come together, find that common ground, and pass legislation. When we return, that's what I'm going to be focused on.

There are some things that -- look, I'm going to tell you something. If we could lower the cost of prescription drugs -- because I don't care who you are in America. Unless you're a billionaire, you care about the cost of prescription drugs. Quite frankly, they're just actions that the Congress has to take to do something about how much American people are paying for their prescriptions.

And we need to do it. I just -- I think that's one of the most important issues we have got to address.

DEANGELIS: I'm not going to disagree with you on that. There are definitely provisions in here that are important.

But I think what Manchin is saying, look, we have got a very hot economy right now. Inflation is soaring. If you just keep throwing money to stimulate the economy, which in part this bill would do, he is worried about that. And that's why one of his sentiments was, we need to pare it back a little.

And I like your approach, saying both sides should come together. That's what President Biden said he was going to do if elected, that he was going to pass bipartisan legislation. My question is, why couldn't that negotiation come to pass in the last few days?

DINGELL: Well, I was surprised.

Look, I have known Joe Manchin for a long time. He was a very good friend of my -- of my husband. And he's been good to me. He's a good friend to me. I was surprised when he made the announcement the way that he did that Sunday.

But I also think there's been a lot of intensity, a lot of emotion, a lot of passion. And while we need to add to get things done in this country, everybody needed to take a deep breath, get a break, and we got to go back, because there are too many things that matter in this bill that, when you talk about them as programs, and don't -- and really tell people what's in there, everybody agrees we need to get done.

DEANGELIS: Congresswoman, are you worried about inflation?

Because there are a lot of Americans seeing gas prices soar, up 60 percent from last year. They're paying 20 percent more for meat prices. And we're hearing from economists and experts that we will see another 5 to 6 percent inflation come the new year.

DINGELL: So, anybody who says they're not worried about inflation isn't somebody that's paying attention in the grocery store or at the gas pumps. In Michigan, my gasoline prices have been going down, but I clearly care about what's going to happen in the fall.

When I first got elected, I posted on Instagram every week, because I go to Kroger on Sundays, the price of milk, eggs and Diet Coke. I'm back to doing that, because I am tracking it.

I do think that you are starting to see the price of some goods go down. But I will tell you, the industry I care about a lot is the auto industry. And it's going to take a while to see those car prices go down. Used car prices are up more than they have been. So, of course, I'm worried about it.

But I'm looking at policies that are going to reduce inflation and help keep the economy strong. That's what we have all got to do.

DEANGELIS: That's the disconnect. That's the disconnect there, because progressives say spending more is going to reduce inflation. And, of course, you have got those on the other side that say spending more, more money chasing fewer goods, that actually increases inflation.

So explain to me from your point of view, because I can't see it.

DINGELL: Well, so first of all, it's not -- what's contributing to inflation is a lot of issues, supply and demand that we all will remember from our high school and college education.

We had a -- as we all know, COVID really -- the logistical system and the supply chain in this country got very significantly impacted. We're starting to see the ports open more. Quite frankly, one of the biggest issues I'm focused on is bringing the supply chain back to this country, so we are no longer dependent on other countries. That's a big issue.

So, it's not about spending more.


DEANGELIS: You're right. But it's not -- it's not happening. And that's the frustration that a lot of the American people...

DINGELL: Well, it's happening.

No, I will disagree with you on that. Look, I have -- look, I'm not going to say I haven't -- I have hunkered in for this week...


DINGELL: ... and went to the grocery store and filled my refrigerator. And I have to tell you, it's the highest grocery bill I have had in a long time.

But I have also -- as I say, there's a gas station on Michigan Avenue whose price is below $3 a gallon, and the lines are there. So you are starting to see...


DEANGELIS: And, in California, it's over $4 a gallon.

Unfortunately, we are out of time, Congresswoman. Would love to have you back on and continue this conversation.


DEANGELIS: It's nice to see you. Thank you.

DINGELL: Thanks, Jackie.


DINGELL: Happy, healthy new year.

DEANGELIS: Same to you and yours.

Well, if high oil and gas prices have you feeling down now, meet someone who says that you will feel even worse in 2022 -- next.


DEANGELIS: Oil prices hitting a one-month high today.

And, if my next guest is right, it'll keep heading higher in 2022. He's predicting $100 a barrel for oil in the new year, unless President Biden changes course in his energy policies.

Price Futures Group market analyst and FOX Business contributor Phil Flynn joins me now.

Phil, I want to be clear. A lot of people think gas prices came down 10 cents and oil prices came down because of some magic change in the air. It was fear over Omicron. It wasn't anything that this administration did. And I think you're right. Those prices are going higher.

PHIL FLYNN, FOX BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I think President Biden does not have the magic wand to make prices go down. But he definitely can stop them from going back up, for sure.

And one of the things that you and I have both talked about many, many times is that the Biden administration keeps biting the hand that feeds us. And that's the U.S. energy industry, the cleanest, most efficient energy in the world.

And because they have discouraged investment in U.S. energy, prices are going to go up because the world is underinvested in fossil fuels.

DEANGELIS: Yes. And we were talking about possibly using executive action to implement some of the policies that have been shut down, at least for now, for the Build Back Better bill.

And some of that would include energy policies also. If you keep tightening regulations, our country is going to be like California, where the average for a gallon of gas is over $4. But in some places, they're paying $7 a gallon. And, of course, a lot of people are saying, why? Why, President Biden, would you even consider trying to kill and shut down this industry right now?

Our alternative energy is just not ready yet.

FLYNN: They're not ready yet, right.

I mean, follow the science, and we're not there yet. And, to be honest, with President Biden, if he really wants to have a successful energy transition, he needs oil and gas people on his team. He has none. So I think there's a huge misunderstanding about the role that U.S. energy plays in the transition.

Listen, we're going to be on fossil fuels for 30, 50 years. I just heard that they want to get in on electric cars, 50 percent electric cars in a few years. How are you going to charge those electric cars? It's going to take even more energy.

You want to build back America better, you got to -- you got to use asphalt, right? You have got to build -- if you're building bridges.

So, at the end of the day, we want the U.S. to be the biggest producer in the world, because you're the cleanest, most efficient. And it's going to be the best for our economy. That's the only way we can transition successfully and do it smart.

DEANGELIS: You're right. And the president has talked about all these green energy jobs as well. They have yet to materialize. And yet you're going to see an industry that may have to lay off a lot of workers with nowhere to go. And that could be a big problem for the economy as well.

Phil Flynn, always great to see you, sir. Happy new year.

FLYNN: Thank you. Happy new year to you too.

DEANGELIS: Coming up: Is the eighth time the charm?

Talks resuming again with Iran over its nuclear program. What Iran is asking for now and the potential implications of that -- next.


DEANGELIS: Welcome back.

A new round of talks with Iran are under way. Iran is looking for sanction relief, saying that all U.S. sanctions on the country must be lifted before it will take steps on the nuclear side of the discussion.

FOX News correspondent Alex Hogan is live in London with the very latest on how these talks are progressing -- Alex.


As you mentioned, these talks are under way. Now, a longtime critic, Israel, says it won't automatically oppose any agreement of a nuclear deal with Iran. On the other hand, it says that it will step in if it doesn't see what it calls adequate negotiations.

These talks are under way in Vienna. They began on Monday with the U.S. and Iran both speaking indirectly. This is the eighth round of negotiations to restore the country's 2015 nuclear deal, Iran touting lifting sanctions on oil as a top priority.

Both Russia and the foreign minister of Iran today say that they are happy with the direction of this latest round of talks. It's not, however, without current instability between countries involved, Israel allegedly launching an airstrike early this morning on Syria's main commercial port.

The strike that fire to a storage container, shops and the side of a hospital, according to local reports. Israel has recently increased attacks in Syria, targeting Iran-backed fighters. And Syrian state media says that this is the second such strike this month.

Iran showing its own force, and it sent a message to Israel this week, armed forces simultaneously firing off 16 ballistic missiles, missiles that put Israel within reach, ranging up to 1,200 miles. Iran, however, says that its nuclear capabilities and goals would be peaceful.

Now, as far as these talks moving forward, negotiators say there's no set timeline, but they are calling this timetable very urgent -- Jackie.

DEANGELIS: Alex Hogan, thank you so much for that.

Let's get a read on all of this from Hudson Institute senior fellow research Rebeccah Heinrichs.

Rebeccah, always great to see you.

Alex is describing there the grip that Iran has on this region, right? It's not just militias in Syria, but pretty much throughout. And these people are very vicious and very disruptive.

And yet we're sitting down to the table and we're having these conversations where they're saying, lift the sanctions, and then we will talk about the nuclear stuff, whereas former President Trump would have never even had that kind of conversation. Sanctions are what will keep the Iranians in line. It's not that nuclear deal.

REBECCAH HEINRICHS, THE HUDSON INSTITUTE: Which is amazing, when you think about it, because the Iranians are the largest state sponsor of terrorism still.

As you mentioned, they are the ones that are funding the terrorism across the Middle East, and funding proxies, the Houthis in Yemen in that war with the Saudis. And the litany of -- goes on and on and on of all of the ways that they're disruptive throughout the Middle East.

The Biden administration is so desperate for a deal that they're the ones that -- any time you're the one who's desperate for the deal, it's going to be your side that doesn't get what you want, and the other party is going to have a more muscular position going into these negotiations.

The Iranians won't even talk directly with the United States. There's a conduit there, because the Iranians are insisting that there is one. So you can see the kind of position they are vis-a-vis the United States.

DEANGELIS: Yes, you bring up a great point.

And it's not just looking at Iran, but it's really looking at our enemies around the world. You look at Russia, you look at North Korea, and of course, Iran in this case as well, and you have got them sitting back these world leaders. And they're looking at this administration, essentially feeling like we're in a weak negotiating position.

And any time, as you mentioned, you're in that weak negotiating position, the results, the outcome is usually not good.


And one of my great mentors reminded me years ago. He said, Rebeccah, always look at major powers and who they align with, who they help. And if you look at who's helping Iran, it's China. China's importing Iranian oil, in violation of U.S. sanctions, and the Biden administration is just choosing not to enforce those sanctions.

Their reason is that they want to give -- quote, unquote -- "diplomacy" a chance in these deals. What does that mean? It means that, essentially, they're helping the Chinese by turning a blind eye and they're allowing the Iranians to have this boost to keep the regime alive. It's a mistake.

This -- the Biden administration, it's hard to overstate how badly they're assessing who our friends and enemies are and how to approach them properly.

DEANGELIS: Yes, that's a really good way to sum it up, Rebeccah.

Of course, when it comes to diplomacy, it's important to have conversations, but when diplomacy doesn't work, sanctions also send the direct message. And you know that Iran is reacting to the fact that the Trump administration really put a choke hold on them when it comes to their economic growth. And that really speaks volumes.

Great to see you. We are at a time. We will talk again soon.

Coming up: As crime keeps going up, more families hit by crime are speaking out about it. We're going to talk about that next.



NIKKI STERLING, SON'S ALLEGED KILLER WAS BAILED OUT: There is a lack of due diligence on the effort of the bailout project. They're now not only bailing out your individual who maybe shoplifted to support their family or feed their family.

They're bailing out very violent offenders and putting them back on the streets.


DEANGELIS: After learning her son's alleged killer was out on bail posted in part by a nonprofit group, Nikki Sterling is calling for change.

She's supporting a bill that would prevent charitable bail organizations from supporting people charged with felonies, in an effort to keep more violent offenders off the streets.

Former D.C. homicide detective, attorney and FOX News contributor Ted Williams is here to weigh in.

This is a horribly sad story, yet we have seen it so many times across the country, Ted.

TED WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Jackie, it's a very, very sad story.

From what we know, the Bail Project in Indianapolis bailed out this man who allegedly shot and killed this woman's son. And she now wants bail reform. The Bail Project gave money to the system in order to bail this person out.

There is definitely a need for bail reform in this country. And what I'm concerned about is the money aspect of it, Jackie, because, when it comes to bail reform, if you're rich and you want to get out on bail, you can. If you're poor, you don't have the money.

So they need to eradicate money from the bail reform act and they need to put this in the hands of the judges, I believe.

DEANGELIS: Yes, you make a very good point there.

But I want to pause for a moment and read you a statement that we got from the Bail Project. This is how they're responding, saying: "A portion of the original bail for Mr. Lang was paid by a bail bonds company. The Bail Project provided bail assistance to his family for the other portion because they could not afford the bondsman fee for the full amount. It is telling of how the tragedy of Mr. McGinnis' death is being exploited and politicize that no one is calling for restrictions on the bail bond industry, which routinely post bonds for whoever can afford their fees, regardless of the charge."

So, Ted, your reaction to that, because, clearly, the bail bondsman fee -- the bail bondsman wasn't going to cover the entire bail.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm calling for reformation in the entire bail bond system, not only on this bail bond project, but we must take and put under a microscope the entire system that let violent criminals back on the streets.

I don't have a problem if you have a misdemeanor and you want to get let that person back on the street. But when you have got people who have committed violence crimes like Mr. Lang, for instance, who had an assault on a police officer, and he had a burglary charge that was pending, that man should not have been back on the street, or in order to kill somebody, if he in fact is the killer of this person.

DEANGELIS: Yes, and so much news and attention paid to what happened in Waukesha before Christmas in Wisconsin, a similar type of situation there.

This is a story that just continues to repeat itself in a horrible way throughout the country.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

And it's a sad commentary on the criminal justice system. Look, we seem to be looking out for criminals, and not for law-abiding citizens, Jackie. And we need to thought looking out for law-abiding citizens in this country.

DEANGELIS: What has to be done -- in the last 30 seconds that we have together, what has to be done to make the changes? Who has to do it? Who is in charge here?

WILLIAMS: Jackie, I can tell you what needs to be done.

We need to get some of these politicians out of office, especially these politicians who favor criminals over their law-abiding citizens. I think you're going to find in the near future here law-abiding citizens are going to rise up, and we're going to be getting rid of a lot of these politicians who favor all the criminals over law-abiding citizens.

DEANGELIS: And it really underscores the point why people have to vote in their local elections, because that's where some of these changes are made.

Always great to see you, sir. Thank you so much.

We are going to leave it there for the moment. That is us -- it for us today. Thank you so much for joining us.

"The Five" starts now.

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