Why Trump should not focus on Hunter Biden emails at Nashville debate
Fox News contributor Marc Thiessen tells 'The Story' the election 'is not going to turn on Hunter Biden'
Oct. 20, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum” October 20, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Later tonight. See you there. Thank you, Bret. Good to have you in New York. Good evening, everybody. I am Martha MacCallum in New York. And this is THE STORY tonight. A Fox News alert with some brand-new developments.
A senior federal law enforcement official telling Fox News that the FBI does have Biden's laptop and that the emails are authentic and not part of a Russian disinformation campaign. We're also told that the contents may not have been looked at right away as we try to fill in the blanks on why we are just learning about this now.
So that all flies in the face of this other letter that was signed by over
50 former intelligence officials who say that the emails have all the earmarks, classic earmarks of a Russian information operation. Those officials include former CIA Director Panetta, Brennan, Hayden, Morrell, among others, though they do admit in their letter that they do not have evidence of Russian involvement, just their years of experience.
So, all of this as President Trump is about to hold a rally tonight in Erie, Pennsylvania. We're going to see if he has anything to say on these brand-new developments this evening on that story. The president trails Joe Biden in Pennsylvania by about four. Back in 2016, he won the state by a slim 44,000 votes, less than one percent. He faces headwinds there in the suburbs, which you've heard a lot about over the last several weeks, that's a big focus for the Trump campaign.
So that as the debate commission hits the mute button on the president and the former vice president before their match up in Nashville, seeking to control somewhat the dialogue between these candidates more closely. And Twitter and Facebook decide that they will mute what you can and cannot read about the Biden family business ventures. Reporter Glenn Greenwald, who advocates for a free and open press, clapped back at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN GREENWALD, CO-FOUNDING EDITOR, THE INTERCEPT: Information spreads all the time from our most influential media outlets. The danger of allowing a company like Facebook or Twitter or Google to make decisions about what information we as American citizens can and cannot hear, what journalism stories we can and cannot read in the weeks before a presidential election.
Those dangers are infinitely greater than any danger from allowing a particular news story like The New York Post just spread.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, joining me now is one of the House Republicans who's calling for a hearing into big tech, Oversight Committee Ranking Member Jim Jordan.
Congressman Jordan, good to have you with us tonight.
So, first of all, what do you make of all this, these latest developments?
The Department of Justice says, yes, we do have that laptop, have had it in their possession, I guess, for some time, might not have looked at it right away for reasons that we don't really know. But they say it is authentic and it's not Russian disinformation.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Well, I mean, first of all, the people who said it was Russian disinformation, these are the same people who told us the fake dossier was real. They're now trying to tell us that the real laptop is fake, and the real emails are fake. So, I don't put a whole lot of stock into those guys. They misled us for three and a half years and the whole Trump Russia investigation. So, we know what - they're confirming. The FBI is confirming what Director Ratcliffe told us two days ago.
This is not Russian disinformation. The Biden's haven't denied that this is their laptop. We've had calls our staff, Martha had calls with individuals, several calls over the weekend that confirmed to us that these emails are authentic. So, I think all of those issues plus Mike Emanuel, the story he reported, where you got the drop slip that Hunter Biden signed. So, all that points to this is in fact authentic, regardless of what these 50 former Intel people may have said.
MACCALLUM: All right. To dig into their letter a little bit more because this was really the focus of what these former intelligence officials were getting at. For the Russians at this point, with Trump down in the polls, there's incentive for Moscow to pull out the stops to do anything possible to help Trump win or to weaken Biden should he win. A laptop op fits the bill as the publication of the emails are clearly designed to discredit Biden. What's your reaction to that?
JORDAN: I mean, come on, look. Remember when Rick Grenell released all the transcripts that we had, Chris Wray wouldn't release, Rick Grenell released all the transcripts. And we have Clapper, Brennan, Yates, Susan Rice, all these people saying, we saw no collusion, no coordination between Russia.
We never saw any evidence of any coordination or any collusion. So, these are now the same people is telling us, the Russians are running some disinformation operation.
No one's buying it. Let's get to the facts. Let's figure out exactly how much Joe Biden knew about this, because it sure looks like, it sure looks like Joe Biden misled the American people when he said, I didn't have any contact with Hunter Biden about what my son was involved in his business dealings. It sure looks like he misled the entire country. Let's get to the bottom of that versus what these folks are now saying about some made up disinformation campaign.
MACCALLUM: One of the questions that I would like to ask is, are you the big guy in the email that describes the breakdown of who will get paid? It says 10 percent to be held by each for the big guy. Now, that's just an obvious question that would need to be asked now that we should point out that letter and that relationship took place after Joe Biden left the White House.
So, if the situation is that these business ventures were post-White House, post-service and they felt that they had every reason to be able to make some money and enter into business deals now that they were free citizens, would you have a problem with that?
JORDAN: Martha that misses the other point, which is why did Hunter Biden get these relationships and these business deals when Joe Biden was the vice president? I mean, why did he get--
MACCALLUM: That's a question.
JORDAN: We went through this back during the whole impeachment hoax. Why did you get that? Why do you get all the money from China for your travels to China with the vice president? So those are key questions. And frankly, the fact that you had the big tech companies trying to hide this information, censor this information from the American people just days before the election for the highest office in this lane--
MACCALLUM: So, what do you want to--
JORDAN: That is scary too.
MACCALLUM: No, I agree with you. And I think when Glenn Greenwald makes great points here. We all know that these same institutions had no problem pushing out things that turned out to be false last time around. I mean, you can go back to the Moscow hotel tape with all of this was put out as if it were gospel at that point. So, why did they decide that this is the time and maybe they feel like they have - that they feel like they have to get it right this time, that they got it wrong last time. So, they're going to be tougher and clamp down on what they see as Russian disinformation. What do you want to ask them?
JORDAN: No, no, the answer is simple why they're doing it, because they want Biden to win. Remember, they wanted Clinton to win in 2016. We know the email that Google sent out the day after the election where their head of multicultural marketing said that we try to configure our features in such a way to turn out the Latino vote. And the keywords were in key states. Those are the qualifying words. They try to turn out the Latino vote in Nevada and Florida, those swing states, because they thought it would help Clinton.
So, the reason they're doing this is they want to help Biden. That's pretty obvious, I think, for anyone who's got common sense. So that's what they're up to. But, yes, we would like to bring him in front of our committee.
Jerry Nadler won't do it. We try to get Jack Dorsey in just a few weeks ago when we had other big tech people in, Jerry Nadler wouldn't do it. I hope the Senate does.
MACCALLUM: All right. So, the president is pretty clear that he wants the attorney general to take this up. And here's what he said this morning when he was on with Fox and Friends. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We've got to get the attorney general to act. He's got to act, and he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption, and this has to be known about before the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So obviously, the president's been very frustrated that the Mueller report has not come out in a timely manner. And now he would like to see this pushed by the attorney general. Do you think there is - that that will happen? Is there any hope of that happening, do you think, for the president?
JORDAN: Well, I hope so. I hope so, Martha. I mean, there were a handful of us in the House calling for a second special counsel a few years ago to look at all this, to look at all the stuff that took place in the Obama, Biden, FBI, and DOJ. So, I certainly hope so.
We're 14 days before the biggest election in our country has 14 days. So, I think it's I think it's only fair that the American people have answers to these questions about what, in fact, was Vice President Biden's involvement with his son's business dealings. How did that work, what took place here?
And is he the big guy in that email?
MACCALLUM: We know from the impeachment hearings that there were people in the diplomacy wing of the United States government who were very concerned about what these business relationships were, why he was going on the plane. They wanted to press it with President Obama, but they were sort of told to stay back and not bring it up with him. It was an uncomfortable situation. Beau Biden was ill, all of that.
So, we know that they were concerned about it then. It does feel, though, that there's a real selectivity in terms of what gets into these investigations and what doesn't get into these investigations. There's not a bring it all in and figure it out on all sides that appears to be happening here.
One last question for you, this is a Washington Post headline from Thursday and says, the White House was warned that Giuliani was a target of Russian intelligence operations to feed misinformation of Trump. And it says that it was the national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, who was in there saying, you know, be careful what Rudy brings to you, because we are fearful that he is a magnet for some of this disinformation. What do you say about that?
JORDAN: Well, that may in fact, happen, I don't know, but what I do know is the four points I said, the Director of National Intelligence says that this is not Russian disinformation. The FBI now says this is not Russian disinformation. Our staff on the Judiciary Committee has talked to individuals over the weekend who say this is not Russian disinformation.
The Biden's haven't denied that this is, in fact, their laptop. And Mike Emanuel knows that their laptop, because he's got the drop slip that Hunter Biden signed when he left the laptop at the place in Delaware. So those are pretty solid facts. And if that is a kind of overwhelming evidence, I don't really know what is.
MACCALLUM: I think there's always going to be questions about how all of this got pushed out into the open. And there may be some nefarious elements who are trying to push it out or who held on to it until this moment, two weeks before an election. But what we see here is similar to what we saw with the DNC and the Hillary Clinton emails that it's not the actual substance of the emails that people question. Nobody said that those weren't theirs either. As I remember.
It's the question about how it got pushed into the ether at an opportune moment. That does remain a question mark.
Congressman Jordan, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.
JORDAN: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: You bet. Let's bring in Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute scholar and Fox News Contributor. Marc, good to have you here.
So, I know that you think that this is, regardless of what you may think of the merit of the whole conversation, you don't think it's where the president should be focused right now with 14 days to go?
MARC THIESSEN, AEI SCHOLAR: Well, first of all, it is an important story.
And it should be covered by the media. It should be investigated by Congress. I mean, with the facts that Jim Jordan just laid out is this is the and now we have the FBI, which is not a hotbed of Trump support by any means, saying that this is not Russian disinformation. It's a very serious story. If Joe Biden did in fact, take money from Hunter Biden, who was trading on his name and his official position, that is a huge, huge development.
However, Donald Trump needs to understand that this election is not going to turn on Hunter Biden, that this election is going to turn on whether the reluctant Trump supporters, people who supported him in 2016, but now are holding back their support a little bit, are going to vote for him. And so, he needs to handle this in a very careful way. He needs to, for example, in the other day, yesterday, he was on tarmac and he said when a reporter asked about this, he said Joe Biden's a criminal and you're a criminal for not asking him about it.
I understand his frustration. But if he comes out, Joe Biden like that in the debate on Thursday night, it's going to be a disaster. What he needs to do, he needs to do in a very prosecutorial calm way. Ask questions. Joe Biden, did you ever take money from your son, from his business dealings in China and Burisma? Mr. Vice President, who was Biden referring to when he said 10 percent for the big guy?
If the moderator doesn't bring it up, we're 10 minutes into this debate, you haven't asked Joe Biden about the biggest news story out there. Why are you not asking him? He has to do it in a different way, because if he's just starts coming out hot and attacking, it's going to turn off these reluctant Trump supporters who are just going to say, here we go again with another debate performance last night.
MACCALLUM: Yes, it's interesting that you bring that up, because I think, obviously the Trump campaign has been working on bringing out people who are in their base but who didn't vote last time. I read today that the largest non-participant voting group are white men without college degrees.
So, there are lots of those individuals who have not voted, who they are trying to find and identify and get them out to vote.
But, the other person, the suburban women that we talk a lot about, I think they probably look at this Hunter Biden thing and the base loves it.
They're going to eat it up. They're going to say keep digging in. But the people who are on the fence who may be voting for the president last time are going to look at and go, oh, gosh, here we go again. I just want to focus on what matters to me.
THIESSEN: No, exactly. Right, exactly. They're care more about their families than Hunter - than the Biden family. Right. And the Biden family's business problems. There are fascinating. Gallup Poll. 56 percent of Americans say they are better off now than they were four years ago, despite a pandemic, despite the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, worse racial unrest since the 1960s. That is a record that's better than George W. Bush when he run re-election, Obama, everybody else.
But you know what? Real Clear Politics average today, 42.4 percent of Americans are going to vote for Donald Trump. That's a gap of like 14 percent between the people who say Donald Trump has made my life better.
I'm better off now than I was under Obama Biden. But I'm not voting for him. Those are gettable voters. Those are reluctant Trump supporters who need to be given permission to vote in their self-interest.
And the president needs to spend the next 14 days going after those voters saying, you need to vote for - this is why you need to vote for me, because I'm going to restore the economy that with the pre-COVID economy, Joe Biden's going to destroy it with high taxes and socialism and doesn't mean he doesn't talk about Hunter Biden, but it's not the closing message of his campaign.
MACCALLUM: There's a fatigue factor and a desire, I think, for calm. And now I don't know if that's what people would get. And I'm not saying which they should do, but I think that's a force that we're seeing here. Speaking of that, this is President Bush, you were a speechwriter for President Bush. This is President Bush. I was on the floor when he gave this speech,
2004 RNC in New York City. And here's what he said to appeal to voters for a second term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Even when we don't agree, at least you know what I believe and where I stand, you may have noticed I have a few flaws too, now and then I come across as a little too blunt. One thing I've learned about the presidency is that whatever shortcomings you have, people are going to notice them. And whatever strengths you have, you're going to need them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Quick thought on that before we say goodbye.
THIESSEN: This is something that the Donald Trump has not done. George W.
Bush was going after the reluctant Bush voters, and he was basically what he was saying. Look, I get it. I know you don't like my style. I know you think I'm a little bit too brash, a little bit too swaggering. But I get it. But here's why you have to vote for me. Donald Trump needs to deliver that same message. There are a lot of people if he just not nods his head and says, I get it, I'm a New Yorker, I'm tough, I'm brash, I'm outspoken.
But here's what we're going to do together. We're going to bring back the economy. We're going to work it better than it was nine months ago. If you vote for me again, that's a message that will resonate with those reluctant voters.
MACCALLUM: Yes, that's a self-deprecation that we see in that and humor that we saw in George Bush. I don't know if it's a muscle that the president can flex or has, but we'll see. We'll see what happens at the debate. We will see. Marc, thank you.
THIESSEN: He did do it. He did do it when he joked about Fauci. And he said, I don't know why Fauci has better numbers than me. I guess it must be my personality. He can do that. He can do it if he tries.
MACCALLUM: And his wife did it at the RNC too, talking about her husband's style and why she felt that people should stick with them. So. Marc, thanks. We'll see you later.
THIESSEN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. So, coming up, we're keeping an eye on this rally in Pennsylvania where the opponent chose Joe Biden. The president's opponent, Joe Biden, is in some hot water with a local union for saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The Boilermakers Union has endorsed me because I sat down one on one with great detail, with leadership, exactly what I would do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: There's just one problem. They did not endorse him and now they want to know what he was talking about, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So, the campaigns roll on and President Trump's going to be in Pennsylvania, where local union leaders are calling out Joe Biden for claiming to have received their endorsement when they say he has not. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A member of the Boilermakers Local 154 Shawn Steffee was quoted in The New York Times today saying he can't have it both ways. He says you can't meet your goal to end fossil fuels without ending fracking.
What do you say to people like Shawn who doubt your denial because they think you want to keep that promise--
BIDEN: The Boilermakers Union has endorsed me because I sat down one on one in great detail with the leadership exactly what I would do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: OK, so they say that's odd because the Boilermakers Local 154 says that that is not true and that they actually endorsed President Trump.
So, joining me now is the man who was mentioned in that exchange, Shawn Steffee, Boilermaker Local 154 executive board trustee. Shawn, thanks for being here tonight. So how did you become aware of that exchange, were you were watching it when it happened and what went through your mind?
SHAWN STEFFEE, BOILERMAKER LOCAL 154: First, Martha, thanks for having me on the show. And I was at another political function and my phone started going off and I wasn't sure what was going on. And then I realized what happened. I could not believe what I was hearing because our more political chair on our lead committee, and I know that I was at the Latrobe Valley with my business manager, John Hughes, and 100 members when we gave President Donald Trump our endorsement out of local 154 in Pittsburgh.
MACCALLUM: So, what do you think he was talking about? He said he sat down with the boilermakers. Could it be another boilermaker group in Pennsylvania that is separate from yours?
STEFFEE: I could not tell you. I know he did not sit down with local 154. I know that local 237 In Connecticut, business manager Chris O'Neil endorsed President Trump and local 28 New Jersey James Chu endorsed Trump. Other than that, I don't know anyone else that has endorsed candidate Biden.
MACCALLUM: So, have you reached out to them to clarify this or did they reach out to you to get - did you ask for an apology, a retraction, a correction?
STEFFEE: No, we would just like to know who we talked to because he sure didn't talk to any of us. And I know we've talked to President Trump's staff, staff members and moving forward when we gave our endorsement to him.
MACCALLUM: All right. Well, I'm going to play this because I think, this is a little bit based on what you said at the heart of some of the decisions that have been made by unions like yourselves. This is a back and forth with Biden and Harris on the issue of fracking, which is obviously of great significance in West Pennsylvania. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Would there be any place for fossil fuels including coal and fracking in a Biden administration?
BIDEN: No, we would work it out. We would make sure it's eliminated and no more subsidies for either one of those.
HARRIS: There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking.
BIDEN: I make it clear; I did not propose banning fracking.
HARRIS: Joe Biden will not ban fracking. That is a fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, I mean that's little confusing. That's a confusing message that you heard there.
STEFFEE: It's real confusing, Martha, and listen the Boilermakers in Pittsburgh Local 154, we're fossil fuel driven, we build gas and coal-fired power plants, we maintain them, we play a large role in building petrochemical plants like the one in Monaca, we work on refineries, paper mills, so that's our bread and butter.
I don't know where vice president, former Vice President Biden stands on, where he hangs out with fossil fuels and his Green New deal, where a crucial framework he's calling it, but he has flip flopped. President Donald Trump is not flip flop. He's embraced the fossil fuels. He's embraced our energy, energy independence. And he knows what it takes to move forward in this country with manufacturing.
You cannot have manufacturing without a good, reliable electricity generation that's produced by fossil fuels. We got to have it. We can't have just renewables to make up the difference. It's just not possible. And for all the naysayers out there that want to tout the renewable industry, I'm not against solar and wind.
But let's face it, they cannot even be conceived or exist without fossil fuels. OK, we got to have it. We got this. Just take for instance, China.
They're building coal fired power plants right now and so is India and Asia, India, Japan, all these countries. It's not because they need electricity. It's because they need electricity to fuel their manufacturing. They got them. They are an economic leader in manufacturing.
And if we're going to bring it back to this country, we got to do the same.
And President Trump understands that. And he knows what we got to do here, and we've got to do it in Pennsylvania. We have the largest natural gas reserve. We've got coal. We can be doing it right here. And we can do it environmentally friendly with technologies like carbon capture and we can do to eliminate our CO2 emissions. It's possible.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask one more question before I let you go, sir. What's your sense of Pennsylvania? Right now, the former Vice President, Joe Biden, is pulling slightly ahead in Pennsylvania. What's your feel on the ground there?
STEFFEE: Well, Martha, I drive all over Western Pennsylvania and I live in rural Pennsylvania. And I mean, if any indication is like signs that you're seeing on houses, I don't see how President Trump is behind. I just don't see it. But I mean, I'm not a political analyst. I'm not an environmentalist. I know Boilermaker want to move forward in this country and bring back our jobs in the manufacturing sector. And it's going to take a good electricity, fossil fuels to make this happen. And we're ready to do that.
And I mean, moving forward, this is what everybody politically needs to figure out, because just - if you would just ask all these political figures that, want the Green New Deal, every one of them enjoys the luxury of fossil fuels. They enjoy it because their whole life depends on it down every day when they wake up and hit the light switch, it's because of fossil fuels from their makeup to their clothing to their vehicles, to the tires on their cars, they choose to antibiotics, medications, PPE.
Everything is derived from fossil fuels and the natural gas industry. So, what are we doing? Let's move forward. Let's go.
MACCALLUM: All right. Shawn Steffee, sir, thank you very much. Great to talk to you tonight. And we wish you well. We're going to be watching Pennsylvania this evening when the president is in Erie. And thank you for sharing your opinions and your thoughts with us on all of that tonight.
It's good to have you here.
STEFFEE: Thanks for having me, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Let us know if you hear back from the Biden campaign, if they respond, let us know, OK?
STEFFEE: Sure will.
MACCALLUM: All right. You bet. Thank you very much, Shawn Steffee of the Boilermakers 154 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Tonight, here's a look at Erie, Pennsylvania, president won Pennsylvania, as I said, by a razor thin margin last time around in a state where, of course, every vote counts. New polls suggest that there is a lot of ground that has been lost over the last four years with women in particular in the state of Pennsylvania.
Sarah Huckabee, Sanders, and Marie Harf are both women. And they will join me coming up next, they're experts on that. So, we're going to talk to them coming up. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Suburban women, will you please like me? Please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Update from the campaign trail. President Trump is now wheels down in Pennsylvania. He won that state by 44,000 votes, less than 1 percent in 2016 and it looks like it's going to be close this time again.
And so suburban women, obviously is one of the big issues in the Philadelphia suburbs, Pittsburgh suburbs.
A new national poll shows that the president has 43 percent support among white women compared to Joe Biden's 52 percent. That's a big shift from what we saw in 2016 when the president got more votes from white women than Hillary Clinton did.
So here now, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, former White House press secretary and author of "Speaking for Myself," and Marie Harf, executive director of Serve America Political Action committee. Both are Fox News contributors.
Great to have both of you with us tonight. So why, Sarah, why do you think that is? I mean it's pretty astounding when you look back that the president beat Hillary Clinton, who would have been the first female president of the United States with white women in this country and now Joe Biden is doing better than the president with that same group. What happened?
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think one of the key messages in what we've seen consistency in poll after poll is that the majority of Americans are better off now than they were four years ago, and that includes women.
I think at the end of the day when women step up into that ballot box and are making that decision, they have to remember are they wanting to continue down the path of prosperity and security under this president that we've seen over the last four years, or do we want to go down the way of the radical liberal mob that we will get if we follow Joe Biden --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: But I'm asking what happened?
SANDERS: -- into the presidency and into the White House.
MACCALLUM: I understand that that's the pitch of the campaign, but obviously you all look at these numbers and you try to figure out that deterioration and it seems like it's a behavior issue, it's the tweet issue, it's the things that, you know, they just get tired of hearing, and they've been worn down by it and they're tired of all the chaos, is what, you know, that's what I hear anecdotally when they talk to suburban women across the country.
SANDERS: Well, I still think at the end of the day that women are going to be voting not just on personality and whether they like the president or not. If they like what he has delivered on and I think they liked that he is delivered on the economy. They like that he is the person that's been talking about law and order in their communities and when they come time to make a decision over these next 10 days, I think that they are going to come down on the side of Donald Trump varied
MACCALLUM: You may be right.
SANDERS: Because those are the things that ultimately matter, it's the substance, not the style.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
SANDERS: They may not like everything but they do like what he has delivered on and what he is doing for the country, and that is apparent in every other poll --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: We'll see.
SANDERS: -- that indicates what matters.
MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, if that turns out to be a story, that those numbers were wrong about women voters, Marie, that will be a huge story on election night. What's your take?
MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, when women -- when suburban women went to the polls in 2018, they gave Democrats control of the House because they had already started moving away from the president and the Republican Party and in survey after survey, they say exactly what you just said, Martha.
They say that they are tired of the tweets and the name-calling. They are tired of the lack of empathy during this pandemic where we have 220,000 dead Americans. They're tired of a president who they can't let their kids watch his interviews because he doesn't have the same morals and values that they want to pass on to their children. Those aren't my words. Those are the words that suburban women voters.
MACCALLUM: Right. Well, let --
HARF: And so, it's odd to me that Donald Trump hasn't made an effort to smooth some of those edges heading into November given these numbers.
MACCALLUM: You know, I think he is who he is and I think that Sarah makes a good point, you both make good points in terms of what really matters to them when push comes to shove and they go in there to vote.
I want to play this. This is Kamala Harris -- Kamala Harris on the campaign trail this morning. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Climate justice is on the ballot in 2020. Healthcare justice is on the ballot in 2020.
Reproductive justice is on the ballot in 2020. Criminal justice reform is on the ballot in 2020. Climate reform is on the ballot in 2020. Everything is on the ballot in 2020. Joe Biden is on the ballot in 2020.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, a fired up Kamala Harris today, Sarah, your thoughts as women, you know, watch that candidate, the vice presidential candidate for the United States?
SANDERS: Well, I think one thing she got right is everything is on the ballot in 2020. The problem is, her campaign and that administration would come down on the wrong side of literally everything, whether it's on higher taxes, removing the child tax credit, which would absolutely hurt so many American families that the president and his administration fought for.
The idea that anybody would do better under the Biden administration is absurd. We know that under President Trump and his leadership, all Americans and all demographics are doing better.
Historically low unemployment for African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans. A massive number of women are now in the workforce that never were before.
There are so many areas were not just women, but all Americans are doing better. If we really want to talk about what is on the ballot and we want to get realistic, there's only one person that is capable of leading --
MACCALLUM: All right.
SANDERS: -- this country because he's been doing it for the last 40 years and cleaning up Joe Biden's mass --
MACCALLUM: All right. I want to --
SANDERS: -- that he created over the last 47 years.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Sarah. I want to sneak in one more quick question for Marie because I thought this was very interesting. This tweet by 50 Cent, the rapper endorsing President Trump, Marie, slamming the Biden tax plan. He says, yes, I don't want to be 20 cents. Sixty-two percent is a very, very bad idea. Then he goes on to say that he's going to go on to leave New York, he says the Knicks never win anyway. Marie, losing, Joe Biden looks like he's lost 50 Cent.
HARF: Well, I don't think that's one that they are particularly concerned about losing and I don't think 50 Cent not supporting Joe Biden will hurt with suburban women either. So, I think some rich people will have their taxes will go up, a majority of Americans will not under Joe Biden, as he has said.
But, you know, women, the number of women who are not in the workforce today because of President Trump's mishandling of COVID. You know, women have been at the forefront of taking care of their families during this pandemic --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: I think it's a very -- it's a strong point.
HARF: -- that Donald Trump has mishandled.
MACCALLUM: Yes. No, it's a strong point. And there are a lot of women --
(CROSSTALK)
HARF: And so, I think when they --
MACCALLUM: -- who have left their jobs, you know, for the foreseeable future because they couldn't -- they couldn't do it with COVID and having the kids at home and not in school and all of that. So that is THE STORY that's going to linger and linger.
Thank you very much, ladies.
HARF: That's right.
MACCALLUM: Sarah Huckabee Sanders, good to have you, Marie Harf, good to have you as well. Thank you.
So, we are moments away from the president doing a rally tonight in Pennsylvania. He trails Joe Biden there by less than four points. We are going to go to the president live after this when we come back. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: All right, here comes President Trump, just walked down the stairs of Air Force One, he is making his way over to the podium. We are now 14 days from the election. Two weeks from right now we will be sitting in this studio downstairs covering election night 2020.
It's pretty astounding that this is where we are, what a year it has been.
Struggling, obviously, the whole country with the coronavirus and the president's handling of that is one of the major issues of this campaign, it's something that's going to come up on Thursday night.
He is in Erie, Pennsylvania, tonight. This is a county that he carried by less than three points over Hillary Clinton. He won the state by a thin margin, as we have said, so obviously there's a lot of reasons for the concentration that we are seeing in Pennsylvania over the course of the last several weeks.
Let's bring in Marc Thiessen once again. American Enterprise Institute scholar, and we got Marie Harf to stick around, executive director of Serve America PAC, Fox News contributors as we watch the president get ready to speak tonight.
Marc, your thoughts on Pennsylvania on what's at stake here for both candidates and how they should carve out their time over the next 14 days?
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: He's got 14 days to make a closing argument and the argument has to be -- and it's a counter -- it's a counterintuitive question in the middle of a pandemic. He's got to say are you better off now than you were four years ago because the answer for 56 percent of Americans is yes, I am better off now than I was four years ago under Obama-Biden.
And who do, the second question is, who do you trust to bring this economy back to before the pandemic-induced recession? The answer is Donald Trump.
He's got to make that case. Joe Biden is going to ruin that economy by raising taxes with socialist spending policy.
MACCALLUM: You know, I think the economy does become, Marie, the number one issue, because we have suffered through this virus for a long time and you know, by all estimates, you know, by spring you're going to start to have a vaccine in the works, you're going to start to have things shifting and really the biggest thing is going to be the ripple effect that are going to continue to go through the economy for months and months and months.
HARF: That's right, and we'll see how much time Donald Trump actually spends talking about the economy. In the past few rallies, he's done his closing argument, he's focused a lot more on his personal grievances, sort of whether Joe Biden's son was involved in Ukraine and other things that really energize the base, but don't speak to those broader issues of the economy, of this election.
And look, the Biden campaign believes this election is closer than the polls may make it look. They know that this election is not, you know, by any means over, that this is a close race, but Donald Trump needs to focus in his last 14 days in a way he hasn't been in these rallies that we've seen in the past few weeks.
MACCALLUM: All right.
HARF: He's really been tripling down on a far-right base strategy, not a strategy to get that small sliver of voters he needs in a place like Pennsylvania.
MACCALLUM: Marie, thank you very much. Joe Biden not doing any appearances, we would cover them during this hour if he was. President Trump is on right now, let's listen in.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That's all we want. You know what we want to? Normal life.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Normal life will finally resume and next year will be the greatest economic year in the history of our country.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: This is an election between the Trump super recovery, which is happening right now, and a Biden depression. If he gets elected, you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: You know he's going to double, triple, and now quadruple your taxes. I don't think so.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: I think I know the people of Erie pretty well. They don't like that. It's a choice between our plan to kill the virus or Biden's plan to kill the American dream, and that's what he'd be doing.
Biden will delay therapies, postpone the vaccine, prolong the pandemic, close your schools, shut down our country and by the way, Pennsylvania has been shut down long enough.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: Get your governor to open up Pennsylvania. Get your governor to open it up. He will massively raise your taxes, bury you in regulations, dismantle your police departments, dissolve our borders, confiscate your guns, Second Amendment.
You're so lucky I'm president, you wouldn't have a Second Amendment.
Eliminate private health care, terminate religious liberty, destroy the suburbs. I'm saving the suburbs. I knocked out the regulation.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: You don't like projects being next to your beautiful house, your American dream. So much for the American dream. And Joe Biden will ban fracking and abolish Pennsylvania energy.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: How many times did he say your fracking and mining industries will be outlawed, exiled, eradicated and totally extinguished, and you know it, because it's not up to sleepy Joe. He's done so. It's up to the others and the party.
Joe Biden has repeatedly pledged to ban fracking, right? You've all heard it. Have you heard it? Until he got the nomination, then he came to Pennsylvania and he said, I guess it's OK. It's always what they say first.
His running mate, the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate --
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: -- sponsors $100 trillion -- think of that, 100 trillion. If we had a great year for 100 years, we couldn't make hundred trillion dollars. The
$100 trillion socialist Green New Deal, which would eliminate fossil fuels.
At this very moment Biden's web site includes a pledge to mandate net zero carbon emissions which means he would end all fracking. That's what he said. He said it for a year and a half he said it.
Under the Obama-Biden administration, more than 40 percent of all coal mining jobs will be destroyed, totally gone, and you know what happened? I mean, did you see what they did to West Virginia and other places including Pennsylvania when they were here?
Don't forget, they've been here for eight years before me. If they did a good job, I would have never run. I didn't need this. I didn't need this.
Although we are having a good time and we are doing a good job good job.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: No, but it's true. If they did a good job, I wouldn't have run.
Thank you. Thank you.
(CROWD CHANTING)
TRUMP: There's a lot of people. This is a lot of people. I always want the cameras to show, they never like to show. They don't like to talk about it.
You can hear how big these crowds are.
And by the way, you know, in all fairness to Erie, all over the country -- it makes you feel good, all over the country the biggest crowds anyone has ever had. Bigger than what we had four years ago. Bigger. And you have to watch -- you have to watch what we do to 60 Minutes. You'll get such a kick out of it. You're going to get a kick out of it. Lesley Stahl not going to be happy.
The Democrat Party hates fracking. They hate coal, good, beautiful clean coal. They hate American energy and Joe Biden will shut it all down. He's going to.
Tonight, I want to do something -- I want to give you -- this is an original Donald Trump Broadway play. And I had it done specifically. First time I've ever pulled it out. I had it done specifically for the people of Erie because you guys like energy. You like being energy independent. Do you like that? Energy --
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: We don't need all these faraway lands and everything else. We are now energy independent and we are going to keep it that way. Take a look at this clip. We had it made up and I think you'll like it. First time I've ever done this. Right? First time. Go ahead. Wherever it is, put it up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would there be any place for fossil fuels including coal and fracking in a Biden administration?
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. We would -- we would work it out. We would make sure it's eliminated and no more subsidies for either one of those.
I guarantee we are going to end fossil fuel. No more, no new fracking. I would gradually move away from fracking.
HARRIS: And I think it's critically important on day one that we end any fossil fuel leases on public lands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about safe stopping and fracking and stopping new pipeline infrastructure and --
BIDEN: Yes, new pipeline, exactly. They want to do the same thing (Inaudible). They want to phase out fossil fuels and we are going to phase out fossil fuels.
HARRIS: There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: And what we don't show is his more current version -- yes, we'll have fracking and the fake news, they don't do anything about it. They don't even talk to him about it.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: But right now, he's got bigger problems than fracking, I think. You know what it's called? You know it's called? It's called the laptop from hell. The laptop from hell.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: To all the people of Pennsylvania, here this warning. If Biden is elected, he will wipe out your energy industry. You have a million jobs.
Just like he wiped out your steel industry and I brought it back. I brought it back.
Only by voting for me can you save your fracking and Pennsylvania. We are going to have a great time because you are going to reject the radical left.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: The United States -- and I say it and I will say it a thousand times -- the United States will never be a socialist nation.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROWD CHANTING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you, President Trump.
TRUMP: Think of it, here we are in Erie. People as far as the eye can see.
Look at that. I mean, no, it's incredible. It's a great honor. It's a great honor. For all of us. We are all in this together. We're all in it.
As long as I'm president we will remain the number one producer of energy anywhere in the world. You know we are now number one in the world with Pennsylvania, you, Texas, we have some great -- how about North Dakota does a great job. North Dakota, Oklahoma. So many different -- Ohio does a phenomenal job. Phenomenal.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: We've got lot of Ohioans. And they have to have the fracking and they have to have the energy and we need the energy and, you know, you look your car -- when did you think you were going to see $2 a gallon and less?
You didn't think you were going to see that. That's like a tax cut.
And at the same time, our energy industry is vibrant. Last year I visited the Shell petrochemical plant in Beaver County, the largest investment in your state's history. Our opponents will put it out of business. They want to put it out of business. I don't think that's a great idea.
Joe Biden has made a corrupt bargain exchange for his party's nomination.
He's handed control of his party over to socialists. I added another word, communists, Marxists, left-wing extremists. And they are full of hate and rage and scorn for the middle class and for everybody.
Frankly, for the middle class and for everybody. The Biden-Harris -- Kamala. You like Kamala?
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: I'll tell you, did our vice president to a great job? What a great job. What a great job.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I said, Mike, that was too easy. But the Biden-Harris agenda is projected to slash the typical American's income by 6,500 -- it was in the Wall Street Journal today. A nightmare for Pennsylvania families, $6,500 and that's just cut it down. What you could be making if you do this and what we are doing, because for the last 47 years, Joe Biden has been outsourcing your jobs, off shoring your factories and selling out the American worker and who knows it better than Pennsylvania?
Look at all the empty (Inaudible) that you still have despite all the jobs we've brought back. America lost 10,000 factories while he was vice president. He has no clue, by the way.
(CROWD BOOING)
TRUMP: Just so you understand, he has no clue. How many? That's OK. He's a servant of the globalist lobbyist wealthy donors in Washington vultures who got rich bleeding America dream. You know I said the other day I never thought of it, because they are raising a lot of money, 300 million, I could be the king of all fund-raisers. I would be the greatest that ever lived, the President of the United States, all I have to do is give me a list of the top 100 countries, I'll call the president of everyone, they will pay me whatever I want. I will set every record.
The problem is I'd owe them because when they call and they have a problem for a lot more money than we are talking about, you know, it's like hard to say -- they were nice, they treated you good, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. We don't need the money. I don't want to do that.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: But when you see them raise 300, $350 million in a month and a half, you know deals are being made, just so you understand. Deals are being made, big deals. Bills. I mean, look at the deals that he's making for himself, OK? But deals are being made.
In 2016, Pennsylvania voted to --
MACCALLUM: President Trump in Erie, Pennsylvania, has a jam-packed schedule this week and then heads on Thursday night to the debate, of course, and we will watch it throughout.
That is THE STORY of Tuesday, October 20th, 2020, but THE STORY continues.
We'll see you back here tomorrow night at seven o'clock from Nashville, Tennessee as we kick off our special coverage of the final presidential debate. Good night, everybody.
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