Why the Brexit is 'wonderful news' for the UK and America
On 'The Kelly File,' former special adviser to British PM Margaret Thatcher Nile Gardiner explains the anti-EU movement
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 24, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, in a move sending shockwaves around the world. One of America's most important allies parts ways with the European Union in what appears to be a show of frustration over immigration, economic opportunity, and the inability to control their own lives. Sound familiar? Welcome to the "Kelly File." I'm Megyn Kelly.
This vote has divided Europe, caused a huge hit in stock markets around the world and raised new questions about global security and it hasn't even been 24 hours. Perhaps more importantly, it has sent a stunning message to political leaders, pollsters and pundits who never thought this would happen, happen. And part of that message is how the immigration issue drove the voters who were told by the so-called elites not to worry about immigration.
Britain is a relatively small country. With a population of just 65 million, they've never been completely comfortable with the E.U., but as immigration exploded, so did worries there about housing, medical care, jobs, and the changing British culture. Last year alone some 630,000 immigrants arrived, 630,000. If the trend continues, Britain's population will top 70 million over the next decade with about half of that coming from other countries.
While the folks who argued to stay with the E.U. said it's better for England's economy, that apparently did not match up with what some of these folks are experiencing in their daily lives.
In moments, we will here from Nile Gardiner who predicted some of this would happen. He served as special advisor to former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Frank Lutz is here just back in the U.K. with the message Americans should take away. His final poll predicted this exact result. He was one of the few. But we begin tonight with Benjamin Hall reporting from London on how all of this came to pass. Benjamin?
BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good evening, Megyn. Last night, Britain voted to take back control of their borders, their immigration policy, some even say their country and their economy from the nameless politicians in Brussels. It was the biggest voter turnout in U.K.
history. Seventy percent of people turned out and the result, although very close, has changed the face of Europe forever. At its core with the decision to leave the E.U., a body of 28 European countries with one shared government to which billions of dollars is paid every year. That unelected government set many of Britain's laws. Prime Minister David Cameron who had pushed to stay in and originally call this out was supposed to resign this morning after he lost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF UNITED KINGDOM: The British people have made a very clear decision to take a different path. And as such, I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: For years, a politician named Nigel Farage led a small group of British conservatives fighting against the growing power of the European government. Today, he was celebrating victory along with others.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIGEL FARAGE, BRITISH POLITICIAN AND HEAD OF THE U.K. INDEPENDENCE PARTY: It's the victory for ordinary people, decent people. It's a victory against the big merchant banks, against the big businesses and against big politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: One of the major issues was immigration. Millions of people have been flooding into Europe with access to benefits, yet it was the European government took control over Britain's immigrant policy. Even President Obama has had weighed in urging Britain to stay inside the European government, delivering what was widely seen as a veiled threat if they left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: And U.K. is going to be in the back of the queue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: There was a real backlash against this intervention. People were asking what right he had to come and tell the people of the U.K. how to vote. But other than that, there has been a downturn in the economy at the moment. But people are saying that that short-term trouble at the moment may be a price worth paying for freedom. Megyn?
KELLY: Benjamin, a lot of people are wondering why did the British Prime Minister have to step down. I mean he suffered a defeat, but why did he have to step down?
HALL: Well, he campaigned very strongly for this. He believed that Britain was better in. And now they voted to leave, there are negotiations going on with Europe which will redefine where England stands in the future and he felt he was not in a position having campaigned so strongly on behalf of Europe that he could no longer be in the position as prime minister and lead the country forward in the direction it had chosen to vote which was a different direction altogether. So this morning, he made that decision and he resigned.
KELLY: He's gone as of October. Benjamin, great to see you. Thank you.
So some of the folks who voted to remain with the European Union were pretty harsh in their reaction to the opposition calling them racist, stupid, and some other words we can't use on television.
Our next guest is one of the folks on the receiving end of some of that anger. Nile Gardiner is the Director of the Heritage Foundation's Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom. He served as a special advisor to Lady Thatcher and he was a big supporter of the effort to leave the E.U. Nile, good to see you.
So We've seen this today.
NILE GARDINER, DIRECTOR OF THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION'S MARGARET THATCHER CENTER FOR FREEDOM: Good to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: If you were in favor of leaving the E.U, you're stupid. And Charles Cook had an interesting piece out today talking about how his very smart friends have said, are you sure you would be in favor of leaving?
All the smart people are in favor of staying. And we've seen a lot of that same disdain in our country now depending on what political side of the spectrum you're on. So why did you think it was a good idea, and what do you think Margaret Thatcher would have wanted?
GARDINER: Well, Megyn, I think Brexit is a great development for Britain. It's very good for the U.K., it's good Europe, it's good for the United States. This is all about freedom and self-determination, British people retaking control of their own country. And after over 40 years as members of the European Union, it was time for Britain to declare its own independence.
The E.U. has become a separate national entity that suffocates sovereignty and freedom. And the British people voted in huge numbers yesterday to basically declare their independence from the E.U. That's a fantastic development. And this is all about, you know, retaking control for Britain, advancing democracy, advancing economic liberty and freedom, and it's also about, I think, the return of Great Britain on the world stage as a true world power. And I think .
KELLY: What about -- let's talk about the money.
GARDINER: . that Britain has a tremendous amount of benefit for the United Kingdom.
KELLY: The U.K. is one of 10-member states who pay more into the E.U. budget than they get out. Just only France and Germany contribute more. And so the E.U. is paying all these money into the, you know, the Great Britain is paying all this money into the E.U. budget, and Poland is getting all the benefit. Hungary is getting a lot of benefits. Greece is getting a lot of benefits. Why did the Britain -- why did the British folks who supported staying think that was OK?
GARDINER: Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, sort of beggar's belief that, you know, people would think that it's good for Britain to hand over 20 billion pounds a year and just get 10 billion pounds back. Basically, the European Union is a large sort of socialist style redistribution system. It's really an economic basket case in very deep decline. Britain has been subsidizing the European Union for many, many decades. And enough is enough.
As Margaret Thatcher said, you know, the European Project is perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And what the British people have done is basically throw a lifeboat off the Titanic and they jump on board in that lifeboat. And the Titanic is heading only in one direction, toward a massive iceberg. And that's where the E.U. is headed. It's an institution in very deep decline. It's run by faceless unaccountable bureaucrats, and there's a deep disillusionment with the, not only in Britain but across Europe as well. And I'm in no doubt that Brexit will spark a series of referendums across Europe, and you are going to see people all over the European continent expressing their disdain for the European Union.
KELLY: What about -- we're already hearing that there may be some disdain for England. You know, already, there's some rumblings that Scotland may now want out of the U.K, perhaps Northern Ireland. I mean, what kind of effect did that have if it happens, because they wanted to stay in the E.U?
GARDINER: Yeah, certainly. I think the Scotts are the most pro-E.U. among all of the British people. And certainly, there's a renewed call for referendum on Scottish independence. But I think the Scotts should bear this in mind that if they decide to leave the United Kingdom, they, of course, would have to, anyway, apply to join the European Union. They'd also have to apply to join the NATO alliance. And Spain has already said that they would definitely veto any Scottish application because of their own separatist internal problems. And the Scotts would be completely on their own.
But, you know, the vast majority of British people, I think, really want, you know, really want to see change. And, you know, this referendum of the European Union was all about, you know, political change, it's all about reasserting sovereignty and self-determination. These are, you know, universal principles that the American people are cherished so deeply. And I think that Brexit is, you know, is wonderful news for Britain. It's wonderful news for America as well. It's going to advance prosperity on both sides of the Atlantic based upon, you know, economic liberty and political freedom.
KELLY: Nile, great to see you. Thank you.
GARDINER: Great to see you, Megyn. Thank you.
KELLY: Well, the success of the leave E.U. movement is being traced to one of its leading voices. Nigel Farage is a wealthy businessman turned leader of the U.K.'s Independence Party. And he is the man credited with championing Britain's break from the E.U. Now parallels are being drawn between Farage and Donald Trump and the issues the two men put in front of the voters. Watch when we compared remarks from both men this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Our country lost its way when it stopped putting the American people really first.
FARAGE: Dare to dream that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom. This will be a victory for real people, a victory for ordinary people.
TRUMP: We got here because we switched from a policy of Americanism, focusing on what's good for America's middle class, to a policy of globalism.
FARAGE: We fought against the multinationals, we fought against the big merchant banks.
TRUMP: It's not just our economy that's been corrupted, but our foreign policy too.
FARAGE: We fought against big politics, we fought against lies, corruption and deceit. Let June the 23rd go down in our history as our independence day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Joining me now, someone who knows full well how messaging influences voters, pollster, Frank Luntz. Frank, good to see you. And so you actually were polling this thing. You actually had it right. You had the leavers two points ahead of the remainers. And that's exactly how it turned out. What was it? Why did all the other pollsters underestimate the strength of the leave movement?
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER: Two reasons, number one, they could not predict turnout. The fact that this the highest percentage of Brits that have ever voted in an election, even more than voted for prime minister last year, is significant. And the higher the turnout, the better the leave campaign did. And second is that they were unable to project those final
10 percent of 12 percent that were moving at the end.
Megyn, over 90 percent of the British population had decided more than two weeks in advance how they were going to vote. That last 10 % in the end voted with leave, and the reason why is because the remain campaign did not personalize, individualize, or humanize the election. They talked about Britain overall rather than talking about the average, hardworking taxpayer. The leave campaign was much more effective at personalizing it, and more emotional in its appeal.
KELLY: "The Wall Street Journal" had a write up today talking about some certain individuals who voted to leave including -- a lot of these were Democrats, it was working class Democrats who really made it happen. And they were talking about how it's socialized medicine over there, how they go into the hospitals. And one guy's wife had to wait 10 weeks to get a pain shot. She had to wait 10 weeks before she can get a shot to relieve the pain in her backs. These people are not -- understandably, they're not welcoming an influx of 650,000 immigrants. That's just more people on the roster, more people they have to fight for housing with. Forget jobs because they're doing OK on unemployment, but it's much more than jobs over there.
LUNTZ: Yes, and it's also about a government that has lost control, a European government that does not understand that its bureaucracy is destroying the hopes and dreams of the population that it supposed to serve. The number one complaint other than immigration was this faceless, nameless, European bureaucracy that just made life more difficult for the British people.
You'd be amazed that what I'm listening to over there, over the last 72 hours, is exactly what I'm hearing here in America. It is so much of the Trump campaign that the public has had enough. And I would say if I were advising the Clinton campaign, that you better not represent the status quo, because people across Europe and across America have had it, Megyn.
They're fed up with politics as usual, fed up with being ignored by the politicians and fed up with not having a voice and running their own lives.
KELLY: The messaging is, you know, very, very similar on both sides, although, I will say that the leavers in Great Britain, they don't have anything like Donald Trump's free trade policy. I mean they want more .
LUNTZ: But they have shirts like this either, I will tell you that.
KELLY: What does it say on the bottom? Vote leave?
LUNTZ: Vote leave. And, Megyn, I'm not even allowed to show you this.
And I'm not even sure if I should tell you this, but they were even .
KELLY: What's coming next?
LUNTZ: They were even giving away condoms that communicated the vote leave campaign. I won't tell you what they said, but we'll put it on your website so people can come and take a look after this is over.
KELLY: I'm going to have to consult my friend, Mr. Google. Pull out? OK.
James says he has the dirty reference because, you know, he has a dirty mind. It's great to see you, Frank. Thank you for that.
LUNTZ: Thank you. I'm glad he showed that because I thought it was just one of two fuzzy dice that Frank always -- you know, that's what he usually has underneath his coat. So tonight is different.
So what do the Clinton camps and the Trump camps think of this idea that the British vote carries a message for the White House race? David Wohl and Richard Fowler are next on that. Plus, what does this change mean for the terror threat in Europe and around the world? We're going to put that question to former extremis, Maajid Nawaz, and to General Joaquin (ph).
Don't go away. This is important.
CAMERON: This is worth asking the question, which -- you know, who would be happy if we left? Putin might be happy, I suspect al-Baghdadi might be happy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, new political fallout here at home after the Brits vote to leave the European Union. Remember, our reporter in London talked at the top of the hour about the backlash after President Obama weighed in with this just two months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Our focus is in negotiating with a big block of the European Union to get a trade agreement done. And U.K. is going to be in the back of a queue. Given the heavy lift on any trade agreement, us having access to a big market with a lot of countries rather than trying to do piecemeal trade agreements is hugely inefficient.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: They were not persuaded. Then today, Hillary Clinton suggesting the U.K. Vote is bad for the U.S and using the opportunity to make a case for her own presidency. Her statement reading, "This time of uncertainty only underscores the need for calm, steady, experienced leadership in the White House."
For his part, Donald Trump traveling in Scotland today, called the voter rejection of the policies about Mrs. Clinton and President Obama.
TRUMP: He's constantly dictating to the world what they should to do. The world doesn't listen to him. Obviously, you can see that by the vote. But he's constantly dictating to other countries. She shouldn't have done it. And I actually think that his recommendation, perhaps, caused it to fail.
What do you think this says about how Hillary Clinton maybe has misread the world?
Well, she has always misread everything. I mean, she misread this. And I was surprised that she was so bold and .
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining us now, David, an attorney and Donald Trump supporter, and Richard Fowler who's a nationally syndicated radio talk show host and senior fellow at the New Leaders Council. Good to see you both.
So, Richard, many people today have come out and said this bodes very well for Donald Trump, it doesn't bode well for Hillary Clinton, that Trump and his supporters are more aligned with, you know, the sentiment behind the leave moment -- movement which prevailed. Does it cause you any concern as a Hillary supporter?
RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST AND SENIOR FELLOW AT THE NEW LEADERS COUNCIL: For sure. I think this is a ripple effect. And I think the Lord speaks to us in sign that it's time for Democrats to stop thinking that, you know, Donald Trump is not this crazy -
- he is a crazy outsider and all of his policies are horrible. Mark Zandi told us that. But he has an opportunity here to win this thing if we don't get out there and get active. And what you're seeing from the party is not that.
I think today at the platform committee, they rejected a living wage amendment which is absolutely the opposite of what we should be doing. We should be promoting living wages. We should be talking to poor, middle class whites, poor middle class African-Americans, poor middle class Hispanics and saying get in the game, get in the process. Donald Trump's policies are horrible for you and this election matters. And I think that's what we've got to do absolutely immediately. And this should be a warning sign that Rome is indeed burning and it's time for Democrats to get up and get active, or Donald Trump will be the president. Scary.
KELLY: So that's a message we are hearing. It's not just Richard, David. He says Donald Trump is crazy. I think he calls Hillary crazy. I can't remember what his nickname is, corruptor or whatever. But she came out tonight with another statement that said, you know, pay attention, suggesting Donald Trump can win. And you're hearing this more and more from the left today saying, they need to take this as a warning to get behind her, and more particularly, to open up their pocketbooks to help her.
DAVID WOHL, ATTORNEY: Yeah, I mean, the Megyn, the Brexit vote was nothing short of a wholesale rejection of the Clinton, Cameron, Obama globalist agenda. I mean people are sick and tired that they're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore. How many people need to flood into the country, how many terrorist events like San Bernardino, Paris, Orlando, have to take place before people can finally say, OK, stop, enough? And this mirror's Mr. Trump's policy on immigration. He simply wants a system of vetting, a system of screening that is comprehensive, accurate, and will stop people from hot beds of Islamic terrorism who are predisposed to this type of behavior from coming to America. What a concept. The Britons had it right. They're not -- they're not protected by the E.U.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And what we've seen here though, Richard, you tell me because over there, the polling had it very tight although they thought that England would stay, you know, in the E.U. Here, Hillary Clinton has been beating Donald Trump steadily in virtually all of the polls. So if the pollsters have it wrong now, they're way wrong. I mean, they're all wrong. Granted we still have four months to the election, but does that give you any -- and does that make you feel better after you get over your concern?
FOWLER: I mean a little better. But here's the thing. You have to look -- it's too early to look at nationwide polls. You have to look at state by state polls, right? So you look at a state like Ohio where Donald Trump, even in his baddest week, is tied with Hillary Clinton. And the reason why, one, I think pollsters aren't talking to the right people. But, two, you have to make sure that the campaign is mobilizing the right people. You got to be mobilizing young people to go on a vote, a mistake that stay in E.U. team made over in London, right, or in United Kingdom. You got to make sure that .
KELLY: Yeah, people are still holding onto Bernie. They're not .
FOWLER: Yeah, exactly. They're holding onto Bernie because of his ideals which is what the party needs to shift to and the Hillary Clinton .
KELLY: Bernie is out there saying he's going to vote for Hillary, and the young people are like, no.
FOWLER: He is going to vote for Hillary but he was .
WOHL: His followers aren't going to go along with that. They don't buy into Hillary's platform.
FOWLER: But they're not so ever .
WOHL: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me .
KELLY: Let David finish. No, let David finish, let David finish. Go ahead, David.
WOHL: Yeah, I mean the followers of Bernie are radicals. They're sort of leftists. They're not going to jump on board. And I'm telling you what, when it comes down to some of the issues such as national security, I think they care about that. I really do, and the economics of keeping jobs.
They care about jobs. They are going to be -- in the last poll I saw something like 20 percent to 30 percent potentially jump will Mr. Trump. I think even Richard will by the end because Hillary is going to have so many problems with her federal investigation, Megyn. The guy who put her I.T. -
- the I.T. -- the server into her home just took a fifth a 130 times when they questioned Hillary. I'm her lawyer, I'm going to tell her to the fifth. If she does, that's the end of her campaign.
FOWLER: David, you're the .
KELLY: You will be .
FOWLER: David, you're the best I've seen. You're the best I've seen.
WOHL: Richard .
KELLY: If Richard goes to support Trump, he'll be in and I think it's a 4 percent of African-Americans who are in favor of Donald Trump. It's like
96 percent are against Donald Trump.
FOWLER: Don't worry. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen.
KELLY: You'll let us know.
FOWLER: It's not going to happen.
KELLY: All right, great to see you both.
FOWLER: Good to see you.
KELLY: So within hours of the vote, the Islamic state terror group was celebrating and calling for new attacks in Europe. Former extremists, Maajid Nawaz and General Joaquin (ph) are here on what this means for Europe and the United States and security.
Plus this drama may not end with Britain. Remember the women assaulted in Germany? The terror worries in Brussels? Up next, why more countries may bolt the E.U. and what that could mean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking today, a closer look at Great Britain's historic vote to leave the European Union. And this might not be the only farewell faced by the continent. Remember the anger after women were assaulted by immigrants in Germany, the worries about terror in the hot bed of Brussels? Could even more countries abandon the E.U., and what would that mean? Doug McKelway reports tonight from Washington. Doug?
DOUG MCKELWAY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Britain's exit from the European Union is already igniting a fire than has been smoldering across Europe.
Populous and right leaning forces in France, for example, have been gaining strength and are calling for their own exit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (TRANSLATED): The French as well must have the opportunity to choose the way to freedom that will give back to France its full and entire sovereignty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: Polls show a majority of the Dutch want to put an E.U. exit to a vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very jealous and I'm trying to achieve the same in The Netherlands next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: Interested in the European Union break up has spawned a tidal wave of Brexit variations including, 'Italeave, Szechout, Austria La Vista, Finish, Slovakout, and Departugal.'
As in the U.S., Europe is rebelling against what millions see as government by the elites. Critics say rather than simplify Europe's regulatory structure in its 23-year existence, the E.U. government in Brussels has added layers of bureaucracy and regulation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a sense of malaise that the European Union is not working. And part of the reason why it's not working is because Europe is overregulated. Power has been increasingly centralized in Brussels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: Europe is unease also mirrors U.S. worries over uncontrolled immigration, the result in crime, terror threats and failure by some population to assimilate into the broader cultures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: People want to see borders. They don't necessarily want people pouring into their country that they don't know who they and where they come from. They have no idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: There's a frustration over economic decline and influence, and resentment that the more productive E.U. economies like Britain and Germany have had to bail out the weaker ones like Greece. The votes that put the Brexit over the top, came from Britain's equivalent of the U.S. Midwestern rust belt. How many other nation ride this anti-elite wave were likely to depend on whether the British economy does well on its own over the long term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that happens, more and more countries will look at the British example and say, we can do that too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: Critics warn that Britain is risking its economy in today's competitive international market without the auspices of the E.U. But Britain has a very long history of thriving in international trade, having been its leader for parts of the 18th, 19th, and parts of 20th century.
Megyn, back to you.
KELLY: Doug, thank you. Joining me now with more, Rich Lowry, Fox News contributor and editor of National Review. And Alan Colmes who is host of the Alan Colmes show on Fox News radio.
Good to see you both.
ALAN COLMES, FOX NEWS RADIO HOST: Hi. Hi, Megyn.
KELLY: So, Rich, tell me how big a role, what we've seen in Europe with the immigration, and particularly from Syria and elsewhere, and Angela Merkel letting a million refugees come in, how much did that play?
RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR: I think it was a pretty big role.
Angela Merkel in effect issued an invitation to any migrant or refugee who can get to Europe to come on in. And because the E.U. has eliminated borders throughout much of Europe, once you set foot in one European country, you can walk into any other.
And we have learned from the experience of France that European countries are not particularly good at assimilating large numbers of Muslim immigrants, and the experience of France and Belgium is that ethnic enclaves not just terror at their fabric of civil society, they can actually be dangerous.
KELLY: Alan, the reports are that not only were, you know, some rich migrant migrants, this is from the Atlantic today, out buying British buys for the best properties, but poor migrants were willing to crowd much more densely into dwellings than British foreign people were.
And so, the neighborhoods were actually changing to the consternation of those who were British born.
COLMES: Well, that's the problem. And you're hitting on why this really happened. I think it was scare tactics, fear. The immigrants are coming.
The refugees are coming.
KELLY: But the scare tactics and fear or is it facts in a neighborhood that's irritating?
COLMES: It's fear. Because we found out in the United States, for example, people do assimilate. When Donald Trump says Muslims don't assimilate nor our culture. That's a lie. The FBI said it was a lie. People have assimilated certainly secondly generate to that.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Have you been to Paris recently?
COLMES: People assimilate over time. It doesn't happen right way.
Assimilation happens. And that's the way of the world. We don't live in a narrow society. We live in a global society and people have to get used to that.
LOWRY: Well, assimilation is not inevitable.
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: It is.
LOWRY: In the larger numbers you have, the harder it is to assimilate, and Alan, we've seen in these attacks in Paris and Belgium, very often it's second generation immigrants, which I assume you believe must have inevitably assimilated. But they didn't.
And there's a matter of principle here. Britain should get to decide whether they want more immigrants, less immigrants, same amount of immigrants, a different mix of immigrants. That is for Britain to decide itself, not to have it imposed by a European super state.
And what the leave forces were talking about is adapting an Australian style so-called points system where you get to choose the kind of immigrants that you think would help you and have the right skills for your economy.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: What about that, Alan?
LOWRY: There is nothing wrong with that. That's rational.
KELLY: Because what they're saying now today -- what they're saying now today is that if Hillary Clinton pursues a message that sounds anything like Angela Merkel, she's going to lose.
COLMES: This has nothing to do with the United States election. One was a vote on an issue. This is a vote on candidates. Donald Trump, for him to win, based on Brexit, would have to expand the people he's appealing to, and the appeal of Brexit just like the appeal of Trump is to older less educated white lower income people, and he's not expanding to blacks ro women to Hispanics, which is what he would need to do to brought...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And how about the lower educated.
COLMES: That's what the statistics...
KELLY: What about that, Rich, because it is true that England...
COLMES: That's what the Pew study show.
KELLY: ... it is true that England is I think 86 percent white. The United States is not 86 percent white. It has much higher population than minorities.
(CROSSTALK)
LOWRY: Yes, the demographics are -- the demographics are different.
There's no doubt about it.
KELLY: And so the election looks different.
LOWRY: But the left plays a double game. When working class folks vote the way they won't, they're all manta size as hard working, salt of the earth and all the rest of it. When they vote the wrong way, the way they did in Britain, because a lot of the folks who voted for Brexit are labor supporters of the working class, then they're these racist goons and these backwards people. I think that's frankly disgusting.
COLMES: I didn't say that. That's not my point of view.
LOWRY: The people that have -- that have patriotic impulses they want to defend their country and they want to have national decisions affecting Britain decided by the British Parliament.
COLMES: They're voting...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I got to leave it that.
COLMES: ... they're voting against their best interest. It happened to the United States. Look at the economy. Look at how the pound sank today. Look at the stock market...
LOWRY: It's one day.
COLMES: People's savings, their 401k's. They're hurting themselves.
KELLY: I'll get to get to that. I'm going to get to that later with Steven Moore. He's going to tell us whether we should all sell all of our retirement investments. Do you have any? I don't know. It's like you put it in a 401 and then you hope and pray. That's what you're supposed to do.
Great to see you both. We'll have more momentarily.
COLMES: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: So, we're also seeing new worries tonight about the fact that ISIS is now celebrating this vote and using it as call for more attacks. Former extremists Maajid Nawaz and General Jack Keane are here next on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Well, there's some growing terror concerns among some tonight with England leaving the E.U. Today, ISIS was reportedly expressing joy, ISIS expressing joy, and calling on its followers who carry out attacks to, quote, "paralyze Europe."
That has a lot of folks wondering how this move is going to affect global security.
Former Islamic extremist, Maajid Nawaz, and Fox News military analyst General Jack Keane are here in a moment. But first, we go to Trace Gallagher, live in the Europe with more. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, what ISIS is calling on its followers to strike at the heart of Europe. The European Union's law enforcement agency, Europol says Brexit has the potential to harm the U.K.'s ability to fight terrorism.
Because the Brits would no longer have direct access to the Schengen information system, that's the E.U.'s vast intelligence database. Europol claims to be actively working on more than 50 counterterrorism cases and says British police have come to rely heavily on their information.
But remember, the E.U. is vulnerable because one of its bedrock principles is to be able to cross borders without checkpoints, allowing some 400 million people to roam free. Last August, there were many calls for the E.U. to tighten its borders in the wake of an attempted terror attack on a Paris bound train. That attack was halted by three American tourists.
But the attackers themselves were able to freely cross two borders before getting on the train. Then in November, the ring leader of the Paris attacks that killed 130 was able to go from Belgium to Paris, conduct the attack then returned to his apartment in Brussels where he hold up for more than four months before being arrested.
Investigators believe the same terrorist cell that attacked Paris was behind the attacks in Brussels in March that killed 31. Experts also point out that European privacy laws often limit authorities in different countries from sharing information. In other words, while citizens can travel freely from country to country, their information often cannot.
Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining me now with reaction, Maajid Nawaz, a former Islamic extremist, and author of "Radical, My Journey out of Islamic Extremism". Maajid, good to see you tonight. So, do you think this makes us less secure, I mean, us meaning America and the U.K. less secure or more secure?
MAAJID NAWAZ, FORMER ISLAMIC EXTREMIST: Well, I think there's a potential.
I heard that word mentioned in the report. There is a potential, Megyn, that our cooperation with our European partners will suffer, and of course that has no effects.
However, I would like to emphasize my organization, Quilliam is a counter terrorism organization we just published prior to the vote, a report looking at this very question. And we interviewed people from security experts from across the spectrum of opinion on this.
What we found is actually primarily our counterterrorism efforts in the United Kingdom rely on three issues. The first is what's known as the five highest countries for cooperation. That's Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom, those English language speaking countries.
That's where the bulk of our intelligence sharing comes from. The second aspect is the bilateral cooperation with France because of the (Inaudible) Calais relationship at the border that is necessary, and the third, frankly, is the expertise of our security services.
The MI5 and MI6 that are some of the best in the world. So, though it may have an impact, I don't think it's going to have a lasting impact on our ability to defend off terror attacks. And in fact, I think the cooperation by sheer necessity is going to continue with continents in Europe.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Yes. I mean, the U.K. is among the best in the world at this. But what about culturally? What effect does this have, sort of the more isolationist principles and the pushback against immigrants, and sort of the retreat to, you know, within borders?
NAWAZ: Yes. Well, look, I voted for us to remain in the European Union. My primary reason was this point you just mentioned. I think that it won't have an effect long term on the economy nor counterterrorism as I just attempted to give my view on.
But I think culturally there's a danger that we, all of us across Europe begin to retreat into our comfortable identities of old that we become accustomed. Whether it's England, Scotland, Ireland, and we've heard about France and Sweden and other potential exits across Europe.
The danger there of course is that is has not only an effect on the United Kingdom, with now Nicola Sturgeon the head of the Scottish Nationalist Party that has the majority in Scotland declaring they will now call for a new referendum for Scotland to break away from the U.K. to rejoin the E.U.
Now we've also Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, saying that they will call for referendum to unite the Republic of Ireland and break away from the U.K. to join the E.U. And the worry here I have is that when we begin to retreat to retreat into these comfortable old nationalist identities, the far right gains from that, the far left will gain reciprocally from that as well.
And, of course, those who paddle the exclusive Muslim identity, and you mentioned ISIS, but not just ISIS. Generally, Islamic extremist across the board, they will also gain from that as we all begin identifying primarily whether by religion or race. And that can't be good for Europe and nor for the unity of the West against some existential threats that we face in these current times.
KELLY: It's such an interesting experiment, if you will, and the world is about to find out how it's going to work out. Maajid, great to see you. Thank you, sir.
NAWAZ: Thank you. My pleasure.
KELLY: Also with us tonight, General Jack Keane, chairman of the institute for the study of war. Great to see you, General.
JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you.
KELLY: So, what do you make of these ISIS threat that they're going -- that they are going to unleash more attacks? Is that just bluster?
KEANE: Well, they exploit any situation that comes on the horizon certainly. They still have the capacity to motivate people and kill all fellow citizens in Europe and they have the capacity to direct attacks in Europe, and they've expanded into 10 affiliates now and they still have a lot of cash.
So, yes, they're a threat and they're a danger. And they'll take advantage of anything that comes along. I think most of the -- most of this is propaganda but the threat is truly real.
KELLY: Who benefits, you know, in terms of security, national security? Who benefits from this move?
KEANE: Well, first of all, I agree with the Brits taking control of their own destiny, but believe me, the Kremlin is celebrating tonight. The vodka is flowing. And why is that? This is -- if this is what it looks like...
(CROSSTALK)-
KELLY: Because it's a day that ends in "y".
KEANE: Yes, this is -- it looks -- it looks like this could be the beginning of the end of the European Union, and back in '91, we saw a similar collapse of the Soviet Union, which many Russians, and particularly its current leader believes it's the most tragic event of the 21th century.
Shortly after the Soviet Union collapse then there are military alliance, the Warsaw Pact fell apart. What Putin has his eye on and always has his eye on, is the military alliance in Europe, NATO.
He wants to challenge it. He wants to force its collapse, and because he wants to dominate and control the strategic countries in Eastern Europe as a historic buffer to protect mother Russia. This has always been his game.
He's seeking -- he's seeking that kind of influence. He wants to be a world power, and he's dead serious about it, Megyn.
KELLY: And NATO stands in his way. So, does this affect NATO? I mean, realistically, does it?
KEANE: It doesn't affect NATO directly in terms of weakening its security. I mean, the Brits, clearly they're the second most powerful country in NATO. I don't believe this will in the near term affect the budgets that will support the British military. It possibly could.
But the real issue in NATO, Megyn, is we decapitated it in terms of military capabilities after the collapse of the Soviet Union. But the social democracies that have exited for 40 plus years now are an incredible burden as governments in these countries and their leaders are feckless in terms of their inability to ask their people to sacrifice, not only to protect themselves but to protect the outer security of Europe and have step up the global responsibilities.
That is the weakness of NATO. It's the political will is lacking in NATO. And Putin understands that. And believe me, for the last seven years, Megyn, there's been a lack of political will in the United States, in NATO, which is the strongest country in NATO and Putin has taken advantage of all of it.
KELLY: Fascinating. General, great to see you. Thank you, sir.
KEANE: Yes. Good seeing you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, global markets lost trillions, trillions in value today. Trillions with a "t." Up next, we'll take a look at the economic fallout for those of you not in the market.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, the Dow Jones Industrial average took a nose dive at the opening bell. Finishing down more than 600 points on the day, but the Brexit vote could have even bigger repercussions on your bottom line.
Joining me now, Stephen Moore, a Fox News contributor and former Wall Street Journal columnist. Steven, good to see you. So, down 600 is not good. What does it mean for the average American?
STEPHEN MOORE, HERITAGE FOUNDATION CHIEF ECONOMIST: Well, you know, Megyn, I've been doing this for a long time following financial markets in the economy. And I can't remember a 24 hours like we've seen in the last day.
And you're right, you know, this was a big, big selloff, so this wasn't expected that Brexit was going to pass.
And once it did, investors just sold, sold, sold. So, a lot of people are very nervous about their retirement accounts and the IRA accounts and I would simply say this, now is not a good time to sell. You never want to sell into a down market. You want to sell when the market is high.
I think the longer tell term implications of what happened in terms of how this is going to affect the economy, Megyn, I'd say this. The economy in the U.S. is already pretty fragile. We've got pretty bad jobs numbers in the last month. The GDP number for economic growth was really lousy that we had for the first quarter, so this couldn't come at a worse time.
KELLY: You know, I was looking how much better the dollar is doing against the pound and I was thinking, hey, that's good.
MOORE: Yes.
KELLY: But then all the reports said, no, that sucks, too. Explain why that's bad.
MOORE: No. This happens -- any time there's a crisis around the world, you know, whether it's come kind of a huge weather event or some kind of military event, people always flock to the dollar, Megyn. You know, they -- we're still the one source of safety around the world, so it's not surprising, to me, that people are buying dollars.
By the way, the other thing people bought was gold, and so the gold price went way up yesterday. That's where, you know, that's also a refuge for people.
But I am worried about the economy. I think that we just haven't had the kind of growth we wanted now for the last couple of years, and this just puts more stress on the economy right now.
KELLY: Yes.
MOORE: But again, I would tell people, you know, maybe take a deep breath, don't panic here and don't feel like, you know, your nest egg is in danger.
Because I don't think it is. This is not long lasting.
KELLY: Hold on. Don't sell, buy.
MOORE: Yes.
KELLY: And it is good time for a hotel stay in London. Stephen, great to see you.
MOORE: You know it.
KELLY: We'll be right back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: So, which of these do you like the best? 'Departugal, Italeave, Austria La Vista, Szechout, or Finish?' Facebook.com/thekellyfile, on Twitter, @megynkelly. Thanks for watching, everyone. See you on Monday.
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