Why is the White House playing word games with the Taliban?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 29, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and the Jokester Greg Gutfeld, it's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Just ahead, John Boehner exclusive interview with Bret Baier, what he said about the Tea Party might surprise you -- or might not. Also, we bring you new details on Hillary Clinton's potential 2016 run. But first, the United States does not negotiate with terrorists. That's what the Obama administration has said many times, then why did the White House swapped Bowe Bergdahl for five Gitmo detainees. Listen to Deputy Press Secretary Eric Schultz attempt to answer that question, and Charles Krauthammer's reaction.


ERIC SCHULTZ, DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I also point out that -- the Taliban is an armed insurgency. ISIL is a terrorist group, so we don't make concession to terrorist group. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think Taliban is a terrorist group?

SCHULTZ: I don't think that the Taliban -- the Taliban is an armed insurgency.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It (inaudible), it attacks buses, it drives car bombs into markets and it's not a terrorist group. Look, you can't parody this administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: Press Secretary Josh Earnest was back at the podium today, and attempted to clarify Shultz's comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the administration considered the Taliban a terrorist organization or not?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They do carry out, tactics, better akin to terrorism. They do pursue terror attacks in an effort to try to advance their agenda.


PERINO: Alright. So let's get this conversation started. They tried it again today. Eric, I have a theory. We float (ph) theories back and forth. I think that they are not making a political rationalization. They are trying to tell everybody that the war in Afghanistan is over. They don't want to call the Taliban terrorists because, they want to be able to say, see America, we said we would get out of these wars, even if it's premature and misguided and we're going -- you know, create the problem that they created in Iraq by leaving early because ISIS is already showing up in Afghanistan, but that's what they're trying to dance around here. They don't want to call the Taliban terrorists because they want to leave prematurely -- I mean, they want to leave prematurely.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: They want to leave and they want to make sure that something -- jumps up again, they want to say, we made a mistake. Is that what you -- I'm not gonna agree with that, but you would think that they would send -- was it Eric? Was -- Schultz --

PERINO: Eric Schultz.

BOLLING: Eric Schultz, not to be confused on Eric Schultz in Google. The other Eric Schultz --

PERINO: That's Eric Schmidt.

BOLLING: Oh yeah, OK. So, why would they send him out so unprepared for that question? I mean, that --

PERINO: Well --

BOLLING: It's amazing. He was lost -- well --

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: That was called a slaughter.

PERINO: That -- it would say no, he was prepared. I mean, I think that the -- just check in today. Because I've - I had empathy for him, I thought that was kind of a though thing but, they did anticipate the question. This is actually the White House's talking point. He was trying to deliver exactly what the guidance was, that he got from the National security --

BOLLING: So, so can I add to your, your -- I don't know -- speculation.

PERINO: Theory?

BOLLING: So the White House also said that they were gonna meet with some people who are loosely affiliated with the Muslim brotherhood -- we heard about that as well. So, maybe they just don't want you to call these people what they are, because they end up meeting with them for whatever reason, making deals, cutting deals down the road, putting people in places that they want to put them and they don't want to be associated with a terrorist organization. If you don't call Taliban terrorists, you don't call Muslim brother a terrorist -- then you can kind of deal with them.

PERINO: Well, it could be Kimberly, that they are trying also to make a distinction where there might not be. The state department has a list called foreign terrorist organizations. That means you're a state and that you are doing terrorism and you are a state sponsor of it. The Taliban are not on that specific list. However --

GUILFOYLE: They're not on the list? (ph)

PERINO: They are on the treasury list.


PERINO: Which basically means, if you are on that list, there are things that happened, like assets, freezes.


PERINO: And you can't do trading with them. Do you think they are trying to make a distinction without a difference?

GUILFOYLE: Of course they are. I mean, I don't believe anything they say. It's always what convenient semantically for them in the moment. Armed insurgency? Sounds like a bad case of constipation. I don't know what's wrong with these people, they really don't get it. And this poor guy shows up there and just makes a fool of himself. It's like -- it's just sad, and they're in charge of this country, and of our foreign policy, and of our national security, I don't get it. I mean, they have really proved themselves to be completely and wholeheartedly unworthy.

PERINO: Do you think Greg, that it matters if they say that Taliban are terrorists or not?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes, it matters in a big way, there's never been an administration more terrified of shadows and phantoms, while dismissing real threats. The alphabet is more threatening to them than the Taliban. You got to wonder where they get these guys like Eric Schultz, it's like they -- they approach the sales staff at Abercrombie & Fitch. They should be folding sweaters not trying to complete sentences.

PERINO: Well, it's not his fault that they have a bad policy or they have - -

GUTFELD: Oh, I blame him completely Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, it's his fault Dana.

GUTFELD: Dana, your passes --

PERINO: Press secretary alliance.

GUTFELD: Your -- let's, let's -- let's help them out, OK? Let's help them out. They need alternatives for the word terrorists. So why do we give them alternatives. Explosive engineer.


GUTFELD: Homicidal bombers, poisonous pals (ph), toxic travelers, how about Nirvana transition counselors.

GUILFOYLE: That's next.

GUTFELD: Because the fact is, the fact is, it's just mean to call somebody in the Taliban a terrorist, because they have feelings too, and you hurt their feelings every time you call them a terrorist, when in fact, it might be a medical disorder like a peanut allergy. They might just be allergic to sanity, and they need help. And we're sitting here making fun of them. The White House is right. We should be extending an olive branch to the Taliban and say we want to help you -- of course, they probably cut our heads off but, it's the thought that counts.

BOLLING: How about the facilitator.

GUILFOYLE: It's the branch that counts.

BOLLING: Facilitators have 72 virgins. (ph)

GUTFELD: There you go. They're the travel agent for Nirvana.

BOLLING: Beautiful.

PERINO: Now, Juan.


PERINO: They are not denying that -- today, what -- what the press secretary did today, he did not deny that the Taliban participate in terrorist activity, but he doesn't wanna say that they are terrorists. Do you think that they needing to have some clarity? So that we understand -- so that they don't have generals like the other day saying, we need a refresh policy, you need tell us where we are headed?

JAUN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, I don't think this -- and look, I think the reality is -- by the way Greg, the answer is man-made disasters, that's what they were calling terrorism.

GUTFELD: That's true, very good.

WILLIAMS: That's literally what they were calling.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I am a man-made disaster.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, alright. But, I think that what they want to do is to preserve the ability to negotiate and talk with the Taliban, which is what you said earlier. And, remember, the Taliban was in charge of Afghanistan before the United States went in and rousted them, because they were --

PERINO: Right, they kept safe haven to Al-Qaeda.

WILLIAMS: To Al-Qaeda, exactly. So, what you're dealing with here is something that was a state sponsored of terrorist activity at one point. And therefore, I think they see them more in those terms. And secondly, in terms of reconstructing Afghanistan, which is what we want to happen in order to keep the peace there and to keep control and influence, I think they don't want to alienate the Taliban unnecessarily. But, one final point, again, I think that you are on target and I think that having them on the global terrorism list at -- for the financial transactions is really what counts here. It does not matter in terms of what's fighting them. No, we -- does not makes no difference or whatever.

GUILFOYLE: But it's inconsistent.

WILLIAMS: Well, well --

GUILFOYLE: And it's hypocritical.

WILLIAMS: You are --

GUILFOYLE: They are their terrorists --

WILLIAMS: You are (inaudible) semantics.

GUILFOYLE: They are -- because semantics matter when you're fighting a war against --

WILLIAMS: We know who our enemy is.

GUILFOYLE: Which we are.

WILLIAMS: You have any doubt?

GUILFOYLE: It's a matter like who's next to get on the softball list? ISIS?

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on.

GUILFOYLE: I mean it's ridiculous.

PERINO: Well that is, like two things that who's the concern.

GUTFELD: I don't think you know who the enemy is.

GUILFOYLE: It is the concern Dana.

GUTFELD: I don't think you do.

PERINO: The ISIS has been showing up in Afghanistan, I think that's the problem. Will the Taliban allow ISIS to have safe haven --

WILLIAMS: We don't want it.

PERINO: Well. OK, that's why we should not leave prematurely.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

PERINO: Alright, we're gonna go on to the next topic. Bret Baier had an exclusive interview with House Speaker John Boehner last night, here's what he said about the Tea Party and setting realistic goals for the new Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRET BAIER, SPECIAL REPORT HOST: Do you think you can get more members and everybody working together on your side of the aisle?

JOHN BOEHNER, HOUSE SPEAKER: Yeah, I do, I do. Listen, I was the Tea Party before there was a Tea Party. I understand their concerns, I understand their frustrations. But we have a constitution that we abide by. Whether people like it or not, Barack Obama is gonna be the president for the next two years. We've got to find a way to hold him accountable and try to find common ground to get things done on behalf of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: A lot of that interview did talk about Obamacare Eric, but something else happened, and it just happens today. The Senate finally did pass.


PERINO: The Keystone pipeline bill, so there are changes on foot (ph) on the Congress and our president gonna have to deal with that.

BOLLING: That -- that was a great interview. And one of the questions of Bret Baier asked -- Boehner was what -- why you continuing to sue over Obamacare? Why do you continue to bring this lawsuit (ph) and he said, because we do, because we what this, this is what we want to what we represent. It's interesting when he said that, "I was the Tea Party before the Tea Party came." I'm not sure of that, I mean, he's on the right. I'm not sure if he's as far conservative or as conservative as the Tea Party would like him to be. And I think the tea Party calls him out and says, you need to continue to hound the president and Congress on Obamacare, on taxes, on Keystone -- but yeah, like you said, there's a change a foot but, again -- Obama's already said, he's gonna veto the Keystone pipeline bill if it comes to his desk, so this is gonna be great. They're setting it up a real interesting next couple of weeks.

PERINO: And that's what John Boehner I think was trying to do, Greg, and just say that we can do some things but there is a president that's gonna be there for two years. So he's talking about realistic goals, something you've mentioned before.

GUTFELD: I mentioned that many times --

PERINO: Yes you have. I've listened to it.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I think what he's trying to say, in a nice way is we have more in common among in our party than not. It's a necessary message to unify, and you need to unify in order to win. That this tendency in every party for people who want to say, I'm more conservative than they are. No, I'm more progressive than they are. No, I'm truly libertarian. It's a pointless contest of egos and holds no value. Every time you call somebody a rhino, a Democrat smiles, because they like to see the internal conflict, they like that. It's more important to say, we have our disagreements but at the end of the day --


GUTFELD: We come together.

WILLIAMS: Boehner phrase (ph)

GUTFELD: I know, Boehner phrase. (ph) We come together.

GUILFOYLE: Boehner phrase (ph)

GUTFELD: We come together like the wonder twins. We unite.

PERINO: Activate.

GUTFELD: We activate.

GUILFOYLE: Wonder twins activate, format --

BOLLING: What's the (inaudible) for using Boehner phrase (ph)

GUTFELD: I am flogged.

WILLIAMS: You are flogged.

GUTFELD: Yes, but I enjoy being flogged.



GUILFOYLE: He had a small role in Pulp Fiction if you recall.


PERINO: Very small.

GUTFELD: I was the gimp.


GUTFELD: That's me.

PERINO: Well -- I just -- just a short joke. It's just a short joke.


GUILFOYLE: Dana, that was really perfect.

PERINO: I was gonna -- you know what? We have one other topic that I really want to get to, do you mind if I look on that one, alright. There's been a lot of speculation on whether or not Hillary Clinton will run in 2016.

WILLIAMS: Terrible (ph)

PERINO: According to new reports, she's delaying a formal launch of her campaign until July, three months later than originally planned. Now, Juan, let me ask you, first, do you think that this is Hillary Clinton's team being worried that she doesn't have a message or that she could screw things up, or do you think they are -- or do you think they are so confident that she doesn't have to do anything until July?

WILLIAMS: Both are true, madam. I mean, they -- right now, don't have any real challenger. You know, challenger that would be there, looks like Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren, neither is in the game right now and both look are way down in the numbers, I think it's like 70 to 10, the best. So, what she's doing is giving herself more time out of the limelight, away from reporters, away from the scrutiny, and she can launch an exploratory committee to meet all the financial requirements that are necessary for raising money. So, on every front, it's a good move for her. It's just no reason for her to jump out early, and she said she's gonna even go talk to the Benghazi committee if they need to, right?

PERINO: Alright. I'm on another side of it and Kimberly, I think this is interesting. One of the things you'll find amongst any Clinton crew is that the internal debate and the arguments that happen internally end up in the paper, because they cannot help themselves. So this is -- they're, they're talking about launching a campaign six months from now, but they are already having fights in the newspapers over it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's not a good sign, is it?

PERINO: I don't think so.

GUILFOYLE: Leaks already in decision -- no, in the meantime, you have other people like forming committees, getting out in front, making key strategy - -

PERINO: Defining her.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. And define it -- by the time she gets around to pulling her crew together, what's gonna happen? Elizabeth Warren is like, cheese.


WILLIAMS: You know, I think it's not -- you know, Greg was talking before about the visions among the GOP. And which I think is just -- I mean, Boehner saying he was Tea Party before the Tea Party? Wow. His nose is getting as long as -- you know what I mean.

PERINO: No, I think I know what he may --

GUILFOYLE: As long as it (inaudible)

PERINO: If you go back to 1994 that is true.

Williams: That tan (ph) is like raspberry iced tea at this point though. BOLLING: Can I -- may I just jump in on Hillary? -- I think it's a brilliant strategy. I think she is so far out ahead of everyone, on every metric where there is money or popularity or -- anything, just put it out there. She -- has no reason to -- do some of the things that she's done, take chances on --

GUILFOYLE: Her next out there already.

BOLLING: Also, the Fox News poll came out, I believe last night. Shows that, it's not Elizabeth Warren who is on her heels, it's Joe Biden. So suddenly Hillary Clinton now she's got -- Hillary Clinton --

GUILFOYLE: I think we need to help Joe Biden out.

BOLLING: Yes, she's in no rush, and this means a lot --

PERINO: And also Former Senator Jim Webb who apparently has got some reason to run, alright? Some money, some -- maybe some information that he would like to.


PERINO: Impart?

GUTFELD: But we -- the obvious point here is that --

GUILFOYLE: Here to tell us?

GUTFELD: Hillary Clinton is incredibly lucky, because she's a Democratic candidate. A Democratic candidate could turn orphans into throw pillows and the media will compliment the stitching, because they -- they are immune to criticism. So the Republican has to stop really thinking about Hillary Clinton and start thinking about how -- they're gonna -- what kind of candidate they are gonna feel, because you are gonna fight two fronts. You're gonna fight the media front, who are going to defend the Democrat, and then you have your political adversary who's gonna try to ruin you. So the challenge her is to create a candidate that can fight and can win and could be charismatic and -- be able to -- with humor, refute the media who's going to try and vilify you with every corner.

WILLIAMS: And who would that bigot? Do you have any suggestions?

GUTFELD: Well, I just -- I'm not gonna say.

WILLIAMS: You're not gonna say because I'm thinking -- gosh, if only Dana would run.

PERINO: Oh yeah, right.

GUTFELD: I've been -- I've been saying that for 17 years.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: What a ticket, you know?

PERINO: That's right.


GUTFELD: I was there first, America.

WILLIAMS: That would be a ticket right?

PERINO: Well, at least we would get some you know what done.

GUTFELD: What, what do you got?


GUILFOYLE: There we go --


WILLIAMS: I was trying to --

BOLLING: There's your platform. That's your bumper sticker.

PERINO: There's our message.

GUTFELD: Perino, Allen West. (ph)

PERINO: That's our bumper sticker.

GUTFELD: Perino, Allen West. (ph) That's five tickets.


PERINO: Alright, here's the next ticket. Coming up, do illegal immigrants have a right to work in America? The woman who could very well replace Eric Holder as attorney general thinks so -- details on her comments, next.



GUILFOYLE: One of my nicknames. Should immigrants who come to America illegally have the right to work here? Well, they will, under Obama's executive action. According to Congressman Jeff Sessions and he pressed Attorney General Nominee Loretta Lynch on the topic at the hearing yesterday. Well, here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I believe that the right and the obligation to work is one that shared by everyone in this country. Regardless of how they came here and certainly if someone is here, regardless of status, I would prefer that they be participating the workplace, than not participating in the workplace.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Alright Dana, so immigration obviously a hot button issue that may be banned to -- this what already in there.

PERINO: I think -- right. So I think she -- I think she was a great choice by President Obama, to be the next attorney --

GUILFOYLE: And why is that?

PERINO: I think she's not objectionable. I think that as unreasonable to think that she's gonna agree with the Senators. They might choose to vote against her and I can understand why. That answer, whether people have a right to work, even if they came here illegally, I think that the follow-up question I would have asked is -- will you continue to uphold the law that says, that is it illegal for employers to hire somebody who is here illegally. Because then her point actually, she would have shown a real contradiction in her point because that law still is on the books. You cannot, as an employer, hire an illegal immigrant. You are not allowed to do that. I think that overall on immigration, the fight about the executive order is one that will go beyond this nomination. I think she will get confirmed, even if there are several Republicans who don't vote for him.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I think you're right about the outcome and she has some very good things in pursing people who are -- child abusers and child sex offenders. Eric, you're going to be particularly sad to see Eric Holder go, especially when you have the nice selfie (ph) of the two of you.


GUILFOYLE: At the office, but what are your thoughts about Ms. Loretta Lynch?

BOLLING: So a lot of people are saying it's gonna be a continuation of Eric Holder, I'm not sure, I think she's -- I think she'll be a lot more -- I think the right will like her a little better than they like Eric Holder. My only problem with what she said right there, or what might be the problem on what she said right there is that, it doesn't matter how you come here, you have a right.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: To work. Now, the word right to work is questionable. You may have the opportunity to work, we may have a policy that allows you to work, but you certainly by any definition, don't have a right toward in breaking the law. There's no one in the constitution that says you have that right to work.

GUILFOYLE: Right. So that --

BOLLING: So that -- that's a biggest --

GUILFOYLE: Very good point.

BOLLING: If the attorney general has a problem interpreting that law, that's trouble.

GUILFOYLE: That is --

WILLIAMS: Well, obviously I have a different understanding of what she say, because I think she said, everybody should have an obligation and right to work, like, I want people working. I want people to go and look for a job. And the second thing she said was that she would prefer that everybody will be participating in terms of going to work. So, you know, I don't want anybody laying around, I certainly hope --


BOLLING: So that you're -- you're being in two issues (ph)

WILLIAMS: Oh well --

BOLLING: The right part -- that's where you right to work means that there's a -- whatever, a civil right, a legal right, whatever and I don't see that --

WILIAMS: Well no. I don't think she was saying there's a legal right. I think she was trying to say there's an obligation. Go to work.

BOLLING: But why she --

WILLIAMS: And we want people working.

BOLLING: She's testifying on what her views are, how she's interpreting the law, right?

WILLIAMS: Well, she's talking about preferences. But I mean, it's to be her game because, you know what? She will be the chief law enforcement officer -- so I give you that, but I just don't think that's what she intended, and by the way, if there's somebody that you want to hold responsible, how about these employers? They won't -- you can't get them a job if you're an illegal immigrant, if the employer won't hire you.

GUILFOYLE: OK. She believes in capital punishment, so she would enforce death penalty laws. She believes that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol. She has some pretty strong prosecutorial-minded -- you know, viewpoints, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, I'm with her on the death penalty but not on the marijuana thing.

GUILFOYLE: We know that.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Can we step out of this theater for a minute? This is what Republicans do to Democrats and this is what Democrats do to Republicans, whenever there's a nominee. It's political ping-pong. And it's proven by the selection of witnesses whenever that happens. Like, for example, I like Sheriff Clarke, I love him, but I'm not sure -- if that was -- you, I don't know why he's there but I'm glad that he's there.

GUILFOYLE: (Inaudible) about that.

GUTFELD: But there's a tip for people who have a problem with her. Win the presidency. Then you can make the nominations. And then -- and I agree with Eric, she can't be worse than holder.

GUILFOYLE: I mean --

GUTFELD: You have to try really hard.

GUILFOYLE: You really have to do something, and yeah.

GUTFELD: But people question -- you know, -- people question her, because they always question the judgment of President Obama. If he had nominated a freshly reanimated Ronald Reagan, we rejected -- strictly out of suspicion.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh. The truth has been spoken.




GUTFELD: Because legitimately, President Obama has the judgment of a bitter grad student.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, you said --

PERINO: You said, I mean --

WILLIAMS: Wanna beat up on --

PERINO: It's like gearing for Michael Mukasey in 2007, was a Democrats -- Democrats are very aggressive.


GUILFOYLE: Real quick, I want to play this, since you brought up Sheriff Clark. We've got Atkinson, Turley and Sheriff Clarke in sort of a little montage sandwich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHARYL ATTKISSON, FORMER INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST FOR CBS: From much of history, the United States has held itself up as a model of freedom, democracy and open accountable government. Today, those freedoms are under assault.

JONATHAN TURLEY, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: We are watching the fundamental change in our constitutional system. It's changing in the very way that the framers warned us to avoid. The justice department has played a central and troubling role in those changes.

DAVID CLARKE JR., MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF: In my 36 years in law enforcement, I viewed the United States Department of Justice as an ally in the pursuit of justice. What I have witnessed from the Department Of Justice under the leadership of Attorney General Eric Holder has been almost hostility toward local law enforcement.


WILLIAMS: To me, this looks like a political blitz. It's like where Greg was trying to say so, we're gonna use this as a stage to launch a political attack on the Obama administration, had nothing to do with -- with Loretta Lynch.

GUTFELD: But what -- my point is, it's political ping-pong. You guys, Democrats do this.

WILLIAMS: Oh, are you kidding? This is what goes on Washington.


PERINO: I don't think Turley is there is?

WILLIAMS: Most Americans says --

GUILFOYLE: Turley is there is.

WILLIAMS: Those people are dysfunctional. They're wasting my time.

PERINO: You think Turley is a serious witness?

WILLIAMS: I say, not in this situation. He's not testifying about her, he's testifying about his lawsuit which he's representing John Boehner.

PERINO: No, he's testifying about the issue of executive orders and whether they are legal.

WILLIAMS: But that's --

PERINO: And if she's.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And if --

PERINO: Whether to agree with them.


WILLIAMS: That has not gonna do with her.

GUILFOYLE: And you have warnings about what she shouldn't do that would leave.

PERINO: Sure she does.

GUILFOYLE: An overstepped in terms of the office. So I think it is. It's relevant.

WILLIAMS: She have not file any, she hasn't taking --

PERINO: The question is whether she thinks it is legal. Are they legally binding when they come out of the -- executive box?

WILLIAMS: She -- she would ask the question, for example, about the immigration order and said she thought it was a reasonable resolution. So if we wanted that information Dana, we got it. We didn't need those guys.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, you know what? Come on. Don't be a party (inaudible) let them show up, OK. Ahead on The Five.


WILLIAMS: Why not.

GUILFOYLE: Was President Obama wrong, when he called the United States a tight-knit family? What Americans are actually saying about our country? That's next.


BOLLING: Alright, welcome back. According to a new Fox News poll, the country is as divided as ever, 73 percent of voters see America as a dysfunction family, rather than a tight-knit one. So early, I took to the - - to the polls of some Americans on the street of Manhattan, watch.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are a strong, tight-knit family who has made it through some very, very hard times.

BOLLING: So is America tight-knit or dysfunctional?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's highly dysfunctional.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tight-knit, come on.

BOLLING: Why do you say that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because no one is dysfunctional.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's some of both.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody is agreeing on anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, you bicker or whatever. When it comes down to it, we should all stick together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the working places are tighter knit. We do the grind every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're a tight-knit group. Absolutely.

BOLLING: We love America.


BOLLING: Are you trying to get me in trouble?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, I agree with you. I'm on board with it.


GUILFOYLE: Put clothes on, you bully (ph).

BOLLING: So K.G., you mentioned it sounds somewhat positive. People are optimistic. Almost everyone was like, you know what, when push comes to shove, Americans are tight-knit.

GUILFOYLE: Be honest, how can you not love America? Where else would you rather be? Think about it. Even in the middle of a storm.


GUILFOYLE: Well, no, everywhere you like to go.

BOLLING: But Juan, why would 73 percent of Americans say that we're dysfunctional, though?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think if you watch TV, you know, you can see every political argument in the book, right? I mean, what we do is we have large arguments. And I must say, even in my lovely family, we have large arguments. It doesn't mean we're not a family. But if you ask me on any given day...

GUILFOYLE: Because your son is American?

WILLIAMS: ... "Can you choke that guy?" Yes, I can choke him. He gets under my skin. I can't believe it.

GUILFOYLE: What's wrong with you? We're talking about your family.

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you, they make me crazy.

No, but I will tell you this, you go overseas in an instant, I don't care where you are, you know you're an American. I think Americas clump together overseas, because we're American.

BOLLING: Dana, that was one of the common themes you had. Americans, the people on the street, are tight-knit. But the politicians, quite divided.

PERINO: But every family is dysfunctional. And it's kind of like that's how we operate. Anyone who says their family is tight-knit is hiding something. Every family is dysfunctional. Everybody has got something going on.

BOLLING: Everyone does.

GUILFOYLE: My family is tight-knit, but it's this big.

BOLLING: Greg, what do you make of all this?

GUTFELD: Joe Biden's face is tightly knit. Did you see that picture of him?

GUILFOYLE: I love him.

GUTFELD: OK. This is another perversion of language. We are -- what we're saying is tightly knit means Patriotic, but we're not saying that. so this whole survey is flawed.

America is not a family, nor should it ever be a family. It's a sanctuary from madness, and it's protected by the world's greatest military. If it were a family, I would hope it would be the Corleones and not the Huxtables. But it shouldn't be a family at all.

We should -- our divisiveness is what makes our country great. Our dysfunctionality is a reflection of the fact that we have a democracy that allows for different opinions, and it's free. We can swear and we can hate and we can blaspheme. You can make fun of your religion. You can make fun of my sports team. You can call -- say my mother wears Army boots. You can do whatever you want, because that's what makes us -- the dysfunction is what makes this country great. So this survey was stupid.

BOLLING: You know what? Before we go...


BOLLING: ... the law enforcement and the firefighters we talked to were so pro-American, it was unbelievable; and they are awesome.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, because -- because they put it on the line every day. They're really living it.

PERINO: But if you say dysfunctional, that doesn't mean you're not pro- American. I mean, I'm pro-family even if I think I have a dysfunctional family.

GUTFELD: Your child is crazy, that little hairy thing.

Oh, wait. That's a dog.

GUILFOYLE: It's not. It's not a dog.

BOLLING: We're going to go.

Coming up, MSNBC News smears Chris Kyle. You will not believe what one of the reporters said about this American hero. The tape when we come right back.


GUTFELD: So earlier this week I mocked aging spinster Marilyn Manson's risk-free rebellion of mocking Christians, then saying of the murdered Paris editors that they might have asked for it. Look.


GUTFELD: He says that the murdered Paris editors shouldn't have offended the terrorists. Of "Charlie Hebdo," he says, "I can't say they didn't ask for it. It's kind of a dumb idea to do something like that."

The renegade who bravely made fun of Christians thinks you shouldn't confront radical Islam. Yes, only take a stand when there is no risk. Spoken like a true rebel.


GUTFELD: Smart guy, that kid.

So what was the mopey mascot's response? Of course, he tweets, saying, "I'm so sad that the racist Greg Gutfeld wasn't afraid what would happen when he opened his F-ing mouth. God bless you."

The faded fop then followed up with, "Have at it, kids. Whatever you do, make sure it's biblical."

So when this pale-faced Pop Tart realizes he has no argument, he tweets racist. Worse, when he can't fight his own battles, he asks his fans, all presumably still sleeping under Pokemon sheets, to do it for him.

Now, being called racist by Manson is devastating. Almost as bad as being called short by Kajagoogoo or fat by A-ha. And since he sicced his fans on me, a 6-year-old girls asked that Manson actually harm me. Now I'm wondering what Piercing Pagoda I should avoid. I'll never be able to shop at Spencer's Gifts again for faux leather wrist bands.

And frankly, I'm sad that Manson is mad. He's the only man in his 40s who can recommend a decent piercing for my eyebrow.

But here's the real point. He asked that his followers make their attack on me biblical. So demanding your rabid followers to exact retribution for an insult of blasphemy, doesn't that sound oddly familiar?

Can't say I didn't ask for it, right, Mary?


GUTFELD: Dana, you know, I know you're a big fan. Marilyn is playing tonight, I think in front of dozens in New York. If you want to go with me.

PERINO: Tickets are still available.

GUTFELD: They are available.

PERINO: It would be great if you just had a showdown with Marilyn Manson in the New York venue.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes. It would be sweet.

PERINO: How did you -- how did you know? Was there, like, an onslaught of tweets? Like an avalanche? Did you feel like you were under siege?

GUTFELD: No. He tweeted, like, twice in the morning, and they were really stupid. And so -- and then, I guess his fans sleep in until, like, 2 in the afternoon, because they live at home; and they've got to be -- his fans must be in their 30s by now. The makeup caked so thick on their face they can barely see. And then when they end up sleeping in the Dumpster of Applebee's.

Eric, I've gone off topic.

BOLLING: Is there really a question?

GUTFELD: No, there was no question. Is it pathetic that he introduced the race card?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's what I was going to get to. Because when we were having this discussion earlier in the week, I think you should put on that Marilyn Manson makeup. And what did you say? You said you would be accused of blackface.


WILLIAMS: And I said I'd give you a pass, because I would just be delighted to see it. You know, I like the whole transvestite thing, so I think it would be a treat.

GUTFELD: I hope nobody takes that out of context. Juan Williams likes the whole transvestite thing.

BOLLING: Is there another context?

GUILFOYLE: There's only one way to take that. I'm so sorry. Take it to the bank.

WILLIAMS: Wait, are you kidding? Kinky Boots over here.

GUTFELD: I told you to keep that off the show.

BOLLING: Guys, what's with the Goth people?

GUTFELD: I like Goth people.

BOLLING: Don't people defend them, please.

GUTFELD: You know, they're actually very nice. When you're over -- when you're over a certain age, it's got to stop.

BOLLING: Quick story. So I go to Zumiez. My son likes Van shoes.


BOLLING: So I say -- we try some on. It looks great, but the kid is a Goth kid selling it to him. He's got this Xanax necklace. I'm like this can't end well. Sure enough, I swear to God, true story, we get home, open the box, two right shoes. I'm not kidding.

GUILFOYLE: You always have to check the box. It's like the drive- throughs.

GUTFELD: No, he meant...

BOLLING: No, the person wearing the Xanax collar.

GUTFELD: He knew you worked for FOX. So he figured you'd like two right shoes.

BOLLING: Very good.

GUILFOYLE: I think that was it.

WILLIAMS: That was funny.

GUILFOYLE: True story.

GUTFELD: Thank you for that.

PERINO: What is Xanax color?

GUTFELD: Xanax is blue.

BOLLING: No, no, it's a necklace with things you like...

GUILFOYLE: He didn't mean the pill.

GUTFELD: Oh, you didn't mean the pill?

BOLLING: ... but you have to like Xanax. That's what it said.

WILLIAMS: It's a drug. A drug.

GUTFELD: An anti-anxiety drug that some people use when they're flying.

PERINO: I thought -- I thought it was, like, one of those candy necklaces.

GUILFOYLE: That would be you.

GUTFELD: Oh, it is. It's a candy necklace.

GUILFOYLE: Last time we flew you were taking that.

WILLIAMS: Like if you swallow a razor blade, that helps.

GUTFELD: Now we've heard that Juan likes transvestites, I take drugs when I fly. All right.

GUILFOYLE: Juan -- and Bob swallowed a bottle cap.

GUTFELD: K.G., when a celebrity cannot make an argument, what they often do is they galvanize their followers...


GUTFELD: ... to go after. It's kind of a cowardly move.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it is. I mean, it didn't even make any sense. I'm worried about his, like, mental health state, because that was nonsensical. "Get biblical."


GUILFOYLE: He's completely contradicted himself with every other movement. But you've actually given him the most press he'd had in a long time.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

GUTFELD: Yes. Well, I hope we...

GUILFOYLE: Hope you're happy.

GUTFELD: I hope we can kiss and make up.

Do you want me to do this next topic or not? OK. This is an NBC correspondent, talking about Chris Kyle. It's interesting. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of what people have described as his racist tendencies towards Iraqis and Muslims as he was going on some of these, you know, killing sprees in Iraq on assignment. So I think there are issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. Killing sprees? When Chris Kyle was going on killing sprees?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he was involved on assignments.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In terms of what he was doing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of the description that has come out from his book and some of the terminology that he has used.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have described as racist.


GUTFELD: He said people have described. Don't you love that? Not him but people.

BOLLING: Right. And so the headline was he -- this NBC reporter says Chris Kyle was racist and went on killing sprees. The reality is he said "people." But what -- you know, really, what's the difference? It's not that far, because it's not like he was reporting something that was going on. He literally took Chris Kyle and put "racist" and "killing spree" in the same sentence and, you know, kind of glossed it over. So the natural reaction is this guy is saying that Chris Kyle was a racist and -- once you get -- it's the old...


GUTFELD: The people say, I'm not saying it but people have said.

PERINO: Like a shield.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Some have said.

All right. We've got to go, because they're yelling. Coming up, Juan's impassioned plea for school choice got a lot of reaction yesterday. He'll keep the pressure on his fellow Democrats when we get back.


WILLIAMS: Yesterday, I got a lot of feedback after demanding that President Obama and my other fellow Democrats take action to change our education system, to start doing what is best for the kids, stop playing footsies with the unions.

Today, I'm not backing down. Neither are Americans all across the country who are fighting for the same thing. Here, take a listen.


REP. MIKE HUBBARD (R), ALABAMA: This is not a threat to public schools. This is a tool. This is the way that will help public schools.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're parents and we're educators; and we want the best for our kids. No one wants to see our children fail. We all want our kids to succeed at the end of the day.

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: We want to give more control to our parents, more comfort to the kids, and make sure that everybody feels like, in South Carolina, they can get the best education that best suits them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who knows what's best for a child than their own mom and dad? Certainly, one size does not fit all.


WILLIAMS: You know, this was the key point for me. That if you give power to parents, I think parents love their kids. And I think, no matter their social class or educational background, they're going to make a better choice than the bureaucrat. That's the way I feel about it. And certainly, the historical record would indicate, most often the parents do pretty good. So let the parent take more control -- Dana.

PERINO: Well, I was going to ask you, Juan, where is Hollywood on this?

GUTFELD: California.

PERINO: Where you yesterday described it as a civil rights issue of your generation. And it seems that Hollywood has so much sway in popular culture. Like, why isn't somebody emerging from Hollywood to be the champion of this issue?

WILLIAMS: You know, there have been efforts to make movies. I'm blocking on the name of one movie that was made where, you know, it was teachers who were standing up and fighting. It's, of course, the unions then took on the movie and made that movie to be a right-wing effort.


WILLIAMS: And essentially, I mean, that's why I couched it yesterday was as a Democrat. You know, I don't understand why Democrats wouldn't say we should have been ahead of this issue forever.

PERINO: Like, instead of climate change, it would be nice. Why not do this? If you're Beyonce or Jay-Z, or someone like -- why not make that your cause?

GUTFELD: Because it's not as glamorous. This is the new prohibition. Remember when you had politicians railing against evil booze, but then they'd return to well-stocked speakeasies and get wasted? It's the same with school choice. They come out against school choice, but they enroll all their kids in private schools. There should be a law that, if you vote against school choice, your children must go to a public school. They've got to have that law.

WILLIAMS: Yes. By the way, I think that movie was called "Don't Back Down" or "Won't Back Down."

GUILFOYLE: The sad thing is, is the children are losing at the expense of unions' profits, and it's very disturbing to me, because your party should be championing this cause.

WILLIAMS: That's what I think. Look, I think it should be out front, and I agree with you. And the thing is, it gets so heavily politicized because they say, well, you know, other groups get to the Republicans and these unions get to them -- but what about, forget it, the kids? What about actual education?


GUTFELD: What about the children?

BOLLING: But it's -- nothing will change because there's literally hundreds of millions of dollars that are going to 95 percent Democrat campaigns. So are you going to be a Democrat or say, "I'm going to walk away from $3 million or $4 million in my campaign..."

WILLIAMS: Well, you see this...

BOLLING: "... because I care about the children? No, I'm not going to do it."

WILLIAMS: I just think at some point you've got to be moral about it.

BOLLING: And that is what you -- you kind of distance yourself from the liberal left in that regard.

You said something I wanted to show about the teachers union is the biggest problem with our schools. People fell off their chair. They couldn't believe that you were championing an anti-teachers' union movement.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

BOLLING: But you're right. The problem is when there's hundreds of millions of dollars going to people who want to vote in favor of...

WILLIAMS: I just think it's all a distraction. We should -- it's like if I said what do you care about with regard to your kid, Eric? Do you care about his education or the money? I mean, you could say, "I want to educate my kid first and foremost."

BOLLING: True. But don't forget. Money's what makes campaigns now.

WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing" coming right at you. Stay with us.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." In unison with Greg. All right, Eric. Your turn first.

BOLLING: OK, I'll go first. So the -- there's a Senate Armed Services Committee meeting today. Former secretaries of state, Henry Kissinger, Madeline Albright and George Schultz, were there to testify. Look what happened and watch what happens after. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrest Henry Kissinger for war crimes! Arrest Henry Kissinger for war crimes!

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I have never seen anything as disgraceful and outrageous and despicable as the last demonstration that just took place about -- you know, you're going to have to shut up or I'm going to have you arrested. Get out of here, you low-life scum.



PERINO: Yes! Bringing it. I love it.

BOLLING: Good job.

PERINO: Make that your ring tone.

If Marilyn Manson calls, you can just play that.

GUTFELD: There you go. He calls me all the time, by the way.

PERINO: K.G., you're next.

GUILFOYLE: OK, so FOX 10 Arizona's morning weather man had a bit of a technical glitch, because instead of saying the weather was something, instead like thousands of degrees. And he handled it very well. It's Cory McCloskey. So take a look at this. It's pretty funny.


CORY MCCLOSKEY, FOX 10 METEOROLOGIST: One thousand two hundred seventy in Abutukie (ph). Now, I'm not authorized to evacuate Abutukie (ph), but this seems pretty high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cape Creek is pretty good.

MCCLOSKEY: Cape Creek, Fountain Hills, they don't look good either. And frankly, Wickenburg is a total loss. You might as well just get out.


GUILFOYLE: I love it.

WILLIAMS: Really. We're on fire here.

PERINO: Funny, funny, funny. And global warming.


WILLIAMS: It's burning.

PERINO: All right. Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: All right. Well, listen, if you were at the New England Patriots' hotel last night...


WILLIAMS: ... around 4:45 a.m. with Greg, guess what? A fire alarm went off, woke everybody up. Oh, my gosh, and this is the second time in three nights. Tuesday night it was at 1:30 a.m., they had a fire alarm and it woke everybody up.

GUILFOYLE: It was on purpose.

WILLIAMS: So what do we think? Well, they asked Rob Gronkowski, the Patriots' tight end, and here's what he said. He said, "I slept through it." Apparently, nothing wakes him up. He's totally cool. But I've got to wonder if those Seattle Seahawk fans aren't up to some tricks.

GUILFOYLE: Some shenanigans?

WILLIAMS: Shenanigans.

GUTFELD: Watch your mouth.

PERINO: Well, they're -- cheating is the name of the game.

GUILFOYLE: And there was Greg in the hallway in his shorty robe.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, wait, but it's the Patriots who...

PERINO: I know. Everybody's cheating.


PERINO: It's my point.

It is National Puzzle Day. And I know that you're excited about that. I love doing puzzles. And I found that, actually, it's a great way to get your family off their phones and on the puzzles. I think we have pictures of puzzles. Yes, that's my niece, Jessica Wilkerson, doing a puzzle with Jasper. So you understand how great it is to do puzzles. Your wife joined me in doing that puzzle. That was Elena's handiwork right there.


PERINO: That one was a very good one. I just encourage everyone to try a puzzle with your family. It is a really good way to spend a weekend.

WILLIAMS: My wife loves puzzles, I've got to tell you.

GUILFOYLE: "Star Wars" with Ronan.

PERINO: Everybody should do it. You will be a tight-knit family.

OK. Greg, you're last.

GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...


GUTFELD: I hate these fish.


GUTFELD: As you know, I hate seafood. The primary reason is that it looks -- when it's alive, looks no different than when it's dead. It's virtually identical. Check out what happened to this poor cat.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: See, he thought -- he's thinking, "Hey, this is a pretty good meal. I think I'll have this for dinner." And so he's stubborn. He keeps working, he keeps trying. It looks delicious. He won't -- don't wave me away. This show ain't over. And then all of a sudden, it's alive! This is what happens, because fish look disgusting.


PERINO: And that is a great lead in for "Special Report."

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