Why did Democrats vote for a barrier along the southern border in 2013, but won’t now?

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Why did Democrats vote for a barrier along the southern border in 2013, but won’t now?

Former U.S. Border Patrol Chief under former President Barack Obama Mark Morgan says that the border wall needs to be built.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," January 17, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: All right, welcome, everybody. I am Neil Cavuto.

And talk about drama, an unending drama at that. It all started with this letter from the president of the United States to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, saying -- and I quote -- "Due to the shutdown, I am sorry to inform you that your trip to Brussels, Egypt, and Afghanistan has been postponed. We will reschedule this seven-day excursion when the shutdown is over."

Nancy Pelosi's office just firing back this response: "The purpose of this trip was to express appreciation and thanks to our men and women in uniform for their service and dedication and to obtain critical national security and intelligence briefings from those on the front lines."

We're going to weigh in on this with Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul, who's here, in a moment.

First to John Roberts at the White House, where this battle apparently is only just getting started -- John,.

(LAUGHTER)

JOHN ROBERTS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's quite a back and forth.

Yesterday, Nancy Pelosi sent a letter over the president saying, we'd like you to post on the State of the Union. Today, the president said, well, we're postponing your CODEL to Brussels, Egypt and Afghanistan.

There's an old phrase that really describes this that involves the words me, you and some others that I can't say on TV, but you get the gist of what's going on here.

But here's what else the president said in his letter. He said -- quote -- "In light of the 800,000 great American workers not receiving pay, I'm sure you would agree that postponing this public relations event," he called it, is totally appropriate. I also feel that during this period, it would be better if you were in Washington negotiating with me."

This reaction in the past half-hour from Nancy Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill -- quote -- "The CODEL, congressional delegation, to Afghanistan included a required stop in Brussels for pilot rest. In Brussels, the delegation was scheduled to meet with top NATO commanders, U.S. military leaders and key allies to affirm the United States' ironclad commitment to the NATO alliance. This weekend visit to Afghanistan didn't include a stop in Egypt. The purpose of the trip was to express appreciation and thanks to our men and women in uniform for their service and dedication and to obtain critical national security and intelligence briefings from those on the front lines.

"The president traveled to Iraq during the Trump shutdown, as the Republican CODEL led by Representative Zeldin."

Now, the White House says all CODEL traffic -- travel on military aircraft has been postponed. Of course, the president said, listen, if Nancy Pelosi wants to travel via commercial airline to Afghanistan, she's more than welcome to do that.

Lindsey Graham, who is often a very moderating figure in all of these back and forths that go on between the House and the Senate and the White House in Congress, had this to say about all of it: "One sophomoric response doesn't deserve another. Speaker Pelosi's threat to cancel the State of the Union is very irresponsible and blatantly political. President Trump denying Speaker Pelosi military travel to visit our troops in Afghanistan, our allies in Egypt and NATO is also inappropriate."

So where are we right now with the shutdown? No further ahead than we were yesterday or the day before that or the day before that.

And, clearly, both sides here upping the ante in this back and forth, Neil. And it doesn't look like this logjam could be broken any time soon -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you my friend, very much, John Roberts at the White House.

Just a minute away here from Rand Paul, get him to weigh in on Graham's comments, Nancy Pelosi's comments, the president's comments and where this whole thing stands.

In the meantime, Peter Doocy on Capitol Hill, where a military bus that was supposed to take these lawmakers, well, out of town is still in town -- Peter.

PETER DOOCY, CORRESPONDENT: And, Neil, these Democratic lawmakers thought that, right now, they would be over, somewhere over the Mid- Atlantic heading for Brussels and their other stops further east.

But instead of on an Air Force jet today, they got an Air Force bus. And they were seated outside the House office buildings when the president sent his letter to the speaker of the House that said, this congressional delegation is canceled.

We have not yet seen Speaker Pelosi, but we did see the majority leader, Steny Hoyer. And he is not happy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STENY HOYER, D-MD, MAJORITY LEADER: It's petty. It's small. It's vindictive. It is unbecoming of a president of the United States, but it is, unfortunately, a daily occurrence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Some lawmakers remained on this bus behind me for about an hour, waiting to see if the trip was really off. We're told now that it has been postponed.

And according to the top Republican in Congress right now, Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader, that makes sense to them for this reason:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, R-CALIF., HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Being speaker of the House and leaving the country when it's shut down, I don't think that's appropriate, especially -- especially the speaker thinks we shouldn't even have the State of the Union?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: These members, who were basically stranded here on Capitol Hill, instead of going on their congressional delegation overseas, don't have anything to do now that they're back at the office, because many of their colleagues, dozens, if not hundreds, have already caught flights back to their home districts for the long weekend.

That's the reason that Democrats disagreed with a Republican idea earlier that maybe they should have a recorded vote today on one of these continuing resolutions to fund the government. The Democratic leader in there, Steny Hoyer, said, can't do it, not enough people here -- Neil.

CAVUTO: OK. At least the bus was operational. Thank you, Peter.

In the meantime, we have got Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul here watching all of this unfold.

Senator, good to see you in the flesh. How are you?

SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY.: Thanks, Neil. Thanks for having me.

CAVUTO: What do you make of all this?

PAUL: Well, I do think it's important that we try to open the government.

And the only way I see a way forward is for a compromise between Speaker Pelosi and the president. And you can't have a whole lot of compromise if she's not in town to have conversations.

The last conversation they had, she said she wasn't going to compromise at all, that she was offering zero. And so I really still think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I think they could split the difference.

The president's asking for $5.7 billion. Nancy Pelosi is offering zero. But she has to be willing to negotiate. If you keep saying zero, you're not willing to negotiate.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: She actually upped the ante, right, by saying the wall itself is immoral.

PAUL: Yes, and I think that's kind of crazy. She's voted for money for walls many times. Democrats last year in the Senate voted for $25 billion for walls, though I remain one who's for a wall, but not for unlimited funding for a wall.

So I actually think there should be some compromises on how much is spent. And then we will have other forms of barriers other than walls in some places, and, frankly, maybe electronic or other ways to have surveillance along the border, in big swathes of the border.

CAVUTO: What did you think of Lindsey Graham's characterization, that this is essentially a childish tit for tat?

PAUL: Well, I do think that it's petty partisanship to try to prevent the president from giving a State of the Union. To my knowledge, it's never, ever happened before. And so I do think that aspect of it is petty.

CAVUTO: Is it protocol for the speaker to invite you to speak?

PAUL: I think he's already been invited.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Can they disinvite you?

PAUL: That's a good question.

It's never, ever happened before. And what I have suggested is, if they're serious about it -- and they do run the House -- and they won't let the president come, I think the Senate should offer to have a State of the Union there. And I think that would be a fitting response to this.

I think, in the end, they may back down, because I think the public really doesn't want the partisanship to be so empty that they're saying, oh, we're no longer going to have the State of the Union because people don't like -- the Democrats don't like the Republicans?

CAVUTO: But it's not etched into our Constitution that we have it, right?

PAUL: No, it's not.

CAVUTO: So you don't have to do the address. You could just submit it in writing, if you do it at all.

But do you think that this has gotten so bad, Senator -- obviously, Lindsey Graham lumped the president in with this sophomoric behavior. Do you?

PAUL: Well, I would say the president's response at least is regarding negotiation.

If you're in town, you negotiate. If you're not in town, she's just sort of absconding, without doing any negotiating. And so really I think that's the way the discussion and debate should be framed.

Republicans, I think, are willing to compromise on this. I'm one who would split the difference. Other Republicans have said the same thing. The president hasn't yet said, but there isn't a negotiation because Nancy Pelosi is not willing to negotiate.

But I think that's a bad position for her to take, because you have got these workers with -- that are not being paid. And I think that's not a good situation.

CAVUTO: You think he should just declare an emergency and be done with it?

PAUL: I don't think that's the best way to run government either.

What I have offered is something called the Shutdown Prevention Act. And what it would do is, if we got to a cliff, we got to a date, and government funding wasn't taken care of, then government funding would continue, but with a 1 percent cut.

So, if you -- if you didn't pass your appropriation bills, it would be 99 percent funding for 90 days. And 90 days later, if you still hadn't passed your appropriation bills, it would go to 98 percent funding, 97 percent. And it would keep going down a percentage point every 90 days.

My guess is, they would get the appropriation bills done pretty quickly.

CAVUTO: Have others expressed interest in that?

PAUL: There have been. On the Republican side, there's been much talk of this.

CAVUTO: Any on the Democratic side?

PAUL: I don't think so. And I think that's why it would be an interesting vote, because Democrats say that they don't want the shutdown. They're blaming the president for it.

But what if they're given an opportunity to vote for something that would get rid of shutdowns for the rest of time? We would never have another shutdown. We'd never have another cliff. Half the drama every year in Congress is over shutdowns.

I think you could get to a point where there's no shutdown, but there has to be a hammer. You have to actually do something that maybe neither side wants. And that's to reduce spending.

And I frankly think it's a good idea to reduce spending either way, but I think it would also work to keep the government open.

CAVUTO: Senator, in light of what happened in Syria, the killing of four Americans and others in this ISIS-inspired attack -- we're told ISIS- inspired -- and ISIS-sympathetic groups...

PAUL: Right.

CAVUTO: ... in two regions of Africa over the last 48 hours, do you think the president and the vice president were premature to say that ISIS was destroyed?

PAUL: Well, I think, if you look at the evidence, we have taken 99 percent of ISIS' land, and they're basically destroyed.

Is there any remnants of radical Islam and the ideology that leads to this terrorism? Sure. It's everywhere.

If your argument is that we're going to wait until there's no threat of anyone ever organizing terroristic violence in the Middle East, you will wait forever. And so, frankly...

CAVUTO: But do you think that, by saying that about ISIS, Senator, it almost emboldened them to do this?

PAUL: No.

I think what happens is that there always will be remnants of every movement everywhere. So the same is said for Afghanistan. So I was in a meeting in the White House the other day, and one of the Republican senators said, we don't want to leave Afghanistan precipitously.

And I'm like, 17 years is not precipitously. But they keep saying it that way, as if every time we ever consider leaving...

CAVUTO: So, you're still comfortable with the plan to take our troops out?

PAUL: Absolutely.

What was the goal in Syria? Destruction of ISIS -- 99 percent of their land has been taken, 99 percent destroyed. They're on the run. And here's my point. If you always take care of people, they will never take care of themselves.

The Syrians need to step up, the Turks, everybody else. They live there. Can they not handle 1 percent of ISIS and finish off the job if it needs to be done?

CAVUTO: Well, a lot of your Republican colleagues -- and they know your history on this -- would be very leery of foreign entanglements and the like.

But Congressman Adam Kinzinger, the Republican representative from Illinois, had wondered aloud whether you are retreating from the Middle East.

PAUL: Yes, I think that's a bad way to put it.

I think the better way is to look at the overall scheme of things. People like that still think the Iraq War was a good idea. The president, myself and others say, you know what? The Iraq War was a big mistake, because it destabilized the Middle East. It allowed Iran to grow stronger.

Iraq, the country we liberated, is now most closely aligned with Iran.

CAVUTO: So, when a Steve Hoyer criticizes that move, as he has the shutdown, Nancy Pelosi, with whom we're going to be hearing very shortly, Chuck Schumer on the floor of the Senate saying much the same thing, that, no matter what the president is doing, no matter what Republicans are considering, it's a disaster, what do you say?

PAUL: You mean with regard to the shutdown?

CAVUTO: All of the above.

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL: I think that people sometimes get lost in partisanship.

And so, for example, the Democrats hate everything that is President Trump. And in hating everything that is him, they aren't having reasonable positions on anything. So, with Russia...

CAVUTO: Is this going to be the next two years, Senator?

PAUL: Maybe.

You know, for example, should we talk to Russia? I think Russia is a bad actor in many ways. And yet I would talk to Russia, because I think part of the solution to Ukraine's difficulty is talking to Russia.

CAVUTO: Even in this environment...

PAUL: Absolutely. Absolutely.

CAVUTO: ... where now the president's lawyer Rudy Giuliani is saying there might have been collusion at the lower levels, but not with the president?

PAUL: Yes. Yes.

CAVUTO: Are you getting different vibes on that?

PAUL: Well, absolutely we should talk to Russia, because they have nuclear arms. Absolutely we should have talked to Russia two or three years ago in Syria.

Two or three years ago, when Assad was -- Assad was on the run, he was losing battles, and the country was almost evenly split, I think we could have talked Russia into accepting Assad into exile.

CAVUTO: But is any discussion with Russia, Senator, compromised by this latest stuff in the Cuomo interview with Rudy Giuliani, in which he seemed to say, at the collusion level, it wasn't up to the president, but it happened prior at lower levels?

PAUL: I think discussion with -- I think discussion with Russia is made more difficult because people -- politics has entered into it on our side.

CAVUTO: But, if that were true, would that worry you?

PAUL: Well, yes, it worries me, because there used to be rational, reasonable minds in Washington who wanted to do everything we could to control nuclear arms.

Ronald Reagan was one of those.

CAVUTO: No, I'm talking about lower-level campaign officials talking to the Russians. If that is true, just not the president...

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL: Yes, I don't know what that would have to do with whether or not we would have diplomatic relations with the Russians. And it shouldn't.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: No, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. That that alone, these latest developments and revelations, if true...

PAUL: Right.

CAVUTO: ... does it change the whole perspective on this investigation?

PAUL: You know, I'm never really sure of what people are talking about.

The other day, there was a story saying Manafort gave polling data to the Russians. And it's like, you can look online and get polling data. Polling data is out there everywhere. Polling data is a dime a dozen.

So, to say that and to say, oh, no, low-level campaign officials in the Trump campaign gave polling data, it's like, and?

So, really, we have to think about what we're talking about here. Are we talking about espionage? Are we talking about people trading -- being traitors to their country? That is a big deal.

CAVUTO: Well, whatever that report is, and let's say Mr. Barr becomes the next attorney general, would you be for him releasing all this information, getting it all out there?

PAUL: I have been against the prosecutor, special -- idea of a special prosecutor completely. I don't like it at all.

I think what they did to General Flynn was scandalous and inappropriate.

CAVUTO: OK.

PAUL: And, really, every American is in danger of that. So I'm not big on the report, period.

CAVUTO: OK.

PAUL: I don't think the investigation should have proceeded this way at all.

CAVUTO: Senator, thank you very much.

I did want to talk. I know you're having some surgery done in Canada. You're paying cash for it. I wish you will. Feel well. Get better.

All right, Rand Paul.

We have a lot more coming up here.

We're getting word now that Nancy Pelosi is about to speak out on this, this tit for tat. To the senator's point, it is escalating, this sense that we're not making much progress on the shutdown that now goes into its 27th day.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, I want to take you to Adam Schiff speaking on Capitol Hill on this ongoing shutdown and the drama back and forth with canceled trips. You know the drill.

Listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: Certainly, the speaker's office has been in communication with the Defense Department about this.

And as far as we can gather, because we have been in communication with the Defense Department, until very recently, this came as news to them. And you would have to ask the White House when this decision was made.

It certainly sounds like it was another impetuous act of a president who has difficulty controlling his responses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last question.

QUESTION: Does any of this do anything to bring either side closer to solving the shutdown?

SCHIFF: Well, look, none of this has to be related to the shutdown.

The shutdown is completely unnecessary from beginning to end. Disputes over border security don't require us to shut down the government to resolve.

Whether this kind of fifth grade conduct is going to contribute, it's hard to see how it's very constructive. But, at the end of the day, whatever his motivation is, we're going to do our oversight.

Thank you.

CAVUTO: All right, and on we go, no resumption to any kind of talks that would open up the government again.

If it is weighing on investors, the market again, as I have been so repeatedly saying here, has a funny way of showing it, the Dow up 163 points today.

Market watchers Lenore Hawkins, Jonas Max Ferris.

Lenore, is this just a nonevent to the financial community, expecting, I guess, that it's not going to have reverberations beyond a lot of folks who are inconvenienced and a lot more folks who -- who are not getting paid? What do you think?

LENORE HAWKINS, TEMATICA RESEARCH: Well, I think we have actually two things going on in the stock markets.

One, I think it's a little bit of bad news is good news, because I think the market is expecting that this shutdown is going to have an effect on GDP, which is going to mean the Fed is more likely to be put on hold. And that was the thing that really had the stock market concerned.

The other thing I think that we're seeing in the stock market is kind of a bounce-back from seriously oversold conditions by the end of last year, because right now the stuff that did really badly towards the end of last year is doing the best so far this year. So it's more of a technical rebound.

CAVUTO: All right, so, Jonas, if this were to drag on much longer -- and everything I'm hearing from the principals involved and canceled trips, canceled speeches or delayed speeches or forcing to do the president to do the State of the Union address at an IHOP, I don't know, that this could be weeks, maybe months away from being resolved?

What do you think?

JONAS MAX FERRIS, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it could be.

And it's also been like probably the best market event in a shutdown and all the shutdowns we have had. It's hasn't weighed -- it's the opposite of weighing on stocks. It's been strong, maybe because people think the Federal Reserve won't raise rates with this shutdown going on.

I don't know. But it's also possibly why we saw this bounce late in the day, when there was news coming out that maybe we're going to be a little lighter on the China tariffs, maybe the president, maybe the White House doesn't want both the weight of a shutdown and an ongoing trade war at the same time, ruining what could be a turnaround in the market.

It's also the point in this shutdown where it could start getting bad. At this point, it's starting to look a little negative P.R. You have got famous Instagram rappers doing videos that are getting very popular about the unpaid workers.

So it's possibly tipping...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But I think it's even bigger than that, Jonas, as much as I feel for the federal workers involved, just innocent bystanders in all of this.

But you think about it, Lenore, I mean, we have got small business loans that are in limbo, FHA-related mortgage backed loans in limbo. You have got the TSA in limbo and the fears that lines there are going to get a lot longer, on that what used to be a recommendation to arrive an hour, hour- and-a-half for your flight now up to three hours.

And you got Delta saying it's going to cost probably us $25 million a month just to deal with this, and on and on, major brokerage houses fearing this could collapse growth in the quarter.

HAWKINS: Yes.

CAVUTO: I could go on, but those are headlines. What do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

HAWKINS: It's not good. It's really not good.

And I really hope that when we look back on this, we will think, OK, this was brilliant. It all turned out great. The economy rebounded. This was a really good move.

But, at the moment, the art of the deal is looking a little bit more like a Kandinsky.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right, Jonas, finally, would you recommend people keep an eye on this in looking at markets, or that there could be an economic impact, there could be more of a market impact, or is this just noise, this childish political tit for tat, back and forth, just noise for the time being?

FERRIS: I don't think it's become a market event yet. But it doesn't mean it won't all of a sudden become one.

I think -- I don't think behavioral changes have really kicked in.

CAVUTO: Right.

FERRIS: It's like -- like a short hurricane that comes through and maybe there's a little bit of change.

But if it's a hurricane that just hangs around for months, where people are not booking flights because they don't want to wait in the line, then there's going to be economic impacts. And if they don't have an endpoint in sight, then it's going to eventually weigh on the stock market.

Just a short-term thing, people putting off a trip they're going to do later, isn't going to derail the earnings necessarily for this.

(CROSSTALK)

FERRIS: But if it keeps going, yes. If it has no end in sight, it's going to start all of a sudden weighing on the market.

CAVUTO: All right, I want to thank you both very, very much.

And that hurricane analogy that Jonas had, that's the prevailing one here, that what you lose in one quarter, in one period is made up for when things are back, and the hurricane, or, in this case the shutdown, is over.

Good luck finding out when that's going to be.

FOX Business Network's Susan Li has been monitoring the far-flung fallout from all of this -- Susan.

SUSAN LI, CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

So, Neil, we know that the U.S. economy is starting to feel the impact of the longest ever government shutdown, which will be cutting growth by more than a 10th of one percent every week. There's also a human toll as well.

Although the Agricultural Department has enough money to pay food stamps through to February, some households could still run short. So to combat the hunger, many restaurants in and around Washington, D.C., offering free food and discounted prices for government workers until the shutdown ends.

Now, this one caught my attention. It comes from the Mad Fox Brewing Company, offering 20 percent off for federal workers, but charging 20 percent more for members of Congress. Isn't that smart?

Now, paying phone bills also a concern as well. Wireless carriers, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile, offering flexible payment plans for workers who are unable to pay their bills on time.

And with so many non-federal, federal workers being affected, taxi, Uber, Lyft drivers seeing a drop in their daily income, due to the shortage of people going to and from work. College students looking to file for a loan unable to do so because the IRS is closed, and they can't verify their income.

Housing for low-income households also being impacted. More than 1,000 contracts between the Department of Housing and Urban Development, HUD, and landlords who rent to the poor have been suspended, affecting 70,000 to 80,000 families, according to an advocacy coalition campaign for housing and community.

And guess what? The upcoming big game, the Super Bowl, could be affected, America's biggest sporting event taking place in Atlanta, Georgia, on February the 3rd. And with so many TSA agents not getting paid or calling in sick, it might be tough to handle the huge volume of flights and passenger numbers expected to nearly double during that time to over 100,000 federal security personnel might not be paid to work on game day, Neil.

And we don't want to impact the big game, do we?

CAVUTO: It's amazing how it spreads each day, the tentacles into businesses...

LI: Yes.

CAVUTO: ... you wouldn't think normally, right?

LI: Right. There is a multiplier effect definitely taking place at this point.

CAVUTO: And it is starting, because we have never seen something this long and drag on this substantially.

Susan, thank you very, very much.

In the meantime here, when it comes to what this whole -- is all about, it's about the border. It's about safety at the border. It's about building a wall. And you would think that border agents who are affected by this, because they're not getting paychecks, would be very much against what's going on here.

You would be wrong.

Mark Morgan, the former U.S. Border Patrol chief, who says, build that wall, no matter what.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, Border Patrol chiefs are saying, you know what, you got to build that wall, including the one who used to work for Barack Obama.

Why he says President Trump is right, the time is now, shutdown or no shutdown -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: He was a Border Patrol chief under President Barack Obama.

Now Mark Morgan is joining us now to say, at least when it comes to issues that are near and dear to him, like the border, this president is right, build that wall.

Mark Morgan, thank you for coming.

MARK MORGAN, FORMER BORDER PATROL CHIEF: Thank you for having me.

CAVUTO: So, your view is that this is not immoral, to Nancy Pelosi's argument. You say that it's important. Why?

MORGAN: Absolutely.

If you look back to 2006, when the bipartisan Secure Fence Act was passed, just look at what was said then, again, on a bipartisan nature. The same justifications that the current president is using was used back then from both sides of the aisle.

The wall is an important part of a multilayered approach that takes that avenue away from bad people and bad things entering. And it funnels it to the ports of entry, where we stand a heck of a lot better chance of interdicting those bad things and bad people.

CAVUTO: Do you think the president should just declare an emergency?

MORGAN: Neil, here's what I know, is that we are at a crossroads in this country.

The immigration crisis goes to the heart of our nation's safety, security and sovereignty. And this can has been kicked down the road for decades on both sides of the aisle. And what I support and where I think the president is right is, he is saying no more. We need to address this crisis now and stop kicking the can down the road. And he's right, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, now, a lot of those same Democrats who are opposing this, to your point, Mark, are the same ones who did vote for 130-plus miles of extra wall-building under Barack Obama.

Now, I don't know if you were there at that exact time. But there was a time when both parties agreed on this subject. Now, many remind me, yes, but, Neil, not 2,000 miles.

Do you think that a wall or whatever it would ultimately be called, if we start building this, is required for the entire border? Could it be a mix of different structure and details? What?

MORGAN: Neil, you have got it spot on.

The answer that is absolutely no. And there's been no expert -- and I think that's key -- if you listen to experts from the United States Border Patrol, you won't find a single Border Patrol agent that would say now or has ever said that we need a wall along all 2,000 miles of the southern border.

They have never said it, and they never will. And so we don't. There are certain locations, though, where that wall is part of a multilayered approach. We need it and it works.

And there's other areas where it just doesn't make sense, and we don't need it.

CAVUTO: A lot of your former Border Patrol workers, they're not getting paid. They're caught up in this waiting for a paycheck. What's their morale like?

MORGAN: Well, I tell you, I think it's similar to mine.

And, clearly, this is an incredible hardship for all those impacted. I have been through several governmental shutdowns myself in my career. Right now, I have family members that work for the government that are furloughed.

So I know this well. But here's what I know about the Border Patrol agents. And here's why they stood behind the president when he was touring McAllen and why they unanimously said, President, you're doing the right thing, keep going, is because they know we're at that critical crossroads.

They know that this immigration crisis goes to the heart of our nation's safety, security and absolute sovereignty. And that's why they're behind him. And their morale is just fine.

CAVUTO: Morgan, I want to thank you very much, the former U.S. Border Patrol chief, U.S. Border Patrol chief under Barack Obama, as a matter of fact, so his comments are extra weighty at this time.

Thank you, Mark, very, very much.

You know, imagine, as you get a little bit older -- not that I strike you as old -- you get used to these government shutdowns. I think I have seen at least a dozen of them over my 10 years in this business.

But, anyway, no, it's been a little longer.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But I always wonder how young people feel when they see it. Do they get blase say about it? Oh, we're shutting down the government again.

And I thought I would gather a few of them here, Internet radio host Mike Gunzelman. We have got entrepreneur Michael Parrish DuDell, and last, but not least, Kat Timpf, FOX News contributor.

Kat, do you just sort of shrug your shoulders and say, oh, shutting down again?

KATHERINE TIMPF, CONTRIBUTOR: I kind of do, yes, but that's because I am still getting paid at work.

If I was someone who was having to come in and I wasn't getting paid, then I might have a little bit of a problem with it. And we can see that it might be starting to impact the economy. There is a risk of it impacting the economy.

If that starts to happen, then I certainly will care. What bothers me the most is, I don't see anybody really looking at this with the aim of having a bipartisan solution.

Everyone seems, political -- politicians seem to be saying, what can I do to set myself up the best for the elections, or what can I do to stick it to Trump, or what can I do to stick it to Pelosi, when there's real results that we need to have a solution. We really need to actually have a solution.

CAVUTO: But we don't.

Michael, I wonder if this is -- young people in general, when you see the grownups doing this, right, I'm not going to let you speak in my chamber, well, I'm not going to let you go, use government planes to go abroad, does that get nutty to you?

MICHAEL PARRISH DUDELL, ENTREPRENEUR: It absolutely gets nutty.

It's a bad example to set. And to Kat's point about bipartisanship, you look at every generation, millennials, the younger generation, they are not necessarily attached to saying, oh, I'm a Republican, oh, I'm a Democrat.

TIMPF: Right. Right.

DUDELL: We are Americans. We live in America. Let's focus on improving our country. Who cares if it's conservative or liberal?

CAVUTO: So you're equally upset at both?

DUDELL: I'm equally upset at both. And I have been equally upset about for a long time.

It's time to act like adults. It's time to do what's right and work together. That's what it's about.

CAVUTO: What do you think, Gunz?

MIKE GUNZELMAN, INTERNET RADIO HOST: Well, I think because it is both people's fault.

I mean, when it comes down to it, Nancy Pelosi was going to go away for a week today to the Middle East, to Afghanistan, et cetera. Hello, there's people that are losing their jobs and not getting paid right now. That doesn't help that you're going overseas. What's going to get accomplished over there?

Now, granted, has the president been stubborn about this and acted childish? Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: Telling her to fly commercial, that was a zinger right there.

(CROSSTALK)

DUDELL: That was a zinger. It's just one after the next.

(CROSSTALK)

GUNZELMAN: But the thing is, like, I fly tomorrow, though. Like, TSA is going to be a mess. Am I showing up now three hours earlier? How much -- when does push comes to shove, until something eventually gets done?

CAVUTO: To be fair to Nancy Pelosi and the group she was going -- they were going to an area where people are shooting and killing each other. So, that -- I don't believe JetBlue services that area.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But, having said that, Kat, I'm just wondering how the middle ground will be.

You, as young people, tend to be pragmatic, a little bit more flexible on some stuff. It's always about saving face. I'm not saying young people aren't about saving face. But is there a way -- if you could advise the president and Nancy Pelosi of Chuck Schumer and all that, what would you tell them?

TIMPF: I would tell them to get over what it looks like to actually work together, and worrying that that's bad for their brand somehow, worrying about conceding...

CAVUTO: Or their base.

TIMPF: Exactly. Worrying about, oh, I conceded to Trump or, oh, I conceded to the Democrats, stop worrying about that and start thinking about actual solutions and actual results, rather than just what your political brand looks like, because it's becoming...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Do you trust government as a result?

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: No.

DUDELL: No, absolutely not.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Geez. I was just asking.

(CROSSTALK)

DUDELL: I want a politician that doesn't want to run for reelection. I want them to go in there and to do something and to not worry about making their base happy, about raising money. Go in there and don't worry about reelection.

I know that's hard for those career politicians, but that's what we're -- that's what I'm asking for.

GUNZELMAN: Right. That'd be a utopian right there, because clearly that's not the way it works.

But Congress is a joke. Congress is a joke right now. That's why their approval rating is so low year after year. But I think the younger people, we're just fed up with it. We're over it. We're really getting tired of it.

(CROSSTALK)

DUDELL: You look at every institution -- Pew did a great study on this couple years ago.

Every cultural institution, from politics, to schools, to the -- the distrust is every year more and more. There is a distrust with the institutions we have.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: We're told that young people poll more with the view that the Republicans and the president are making this bad.

But what I have noticed in shutdowns that go on a while is, it morphs into, a pox on both of you guys.

TIMPF: It's garbage. They need to do their jobs, right?

What other job could you just go and hurl insults and little zingers at your co-workers all day and then go home and kick your feet up?

(CROSSTALK)

GUNZELMAN: And then go on recess for like two months at a time.

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: Got some zingers in here, some zingers in there. All right, thanks for all your taxpayer money. I'm going to go home and have a beer.

CAVUTO: Did any of you ever want to go into government, politics?

DUDELL: You know, I used to want to. And, after the last few years, no.

Maybe that will change again, but just...

CAVUTO: Is it scary if Gunz said he would be interested?

GUNZELMAN: Listen...

DUDELL: Well, if we were going to go against each other, then I don't know. We could start this right now.

(CROSSTALK)

GUNZELMAN: I'm a man of the people, but there is a...

CAVUTO: Oh, stop.

(LAUGHTER)

GUNZELMAN: There is a reason a lot of them become lobbyists once they leave Congress. You know what I mean?

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Oh, there we go. there we go.

I take it's a no from you?

TIMPF: Yes, no. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. So I think I would have some trouble.

DUDELL: And that's where I am as well. I don't think we could win, because neither party supports us. We're right in the middle.

CAVUTO: Parties fall apart with this kind of stuff. So you never know.

DUDELL: Knock on wood.

CAVUTO: You never know.

GUNZELMAN: And, hopefully, the country doesn't fall apart.

DUDELL: Right.

CAVUTO: OK, not as long as you're in it.

All right, seriously, guys, I want to thank you very, very much. Good read on things.

I always just wonder, what's going on here? What are these hip kids interesting?

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right, I do know this.

More people in this neck of the woods are talking about the weather and a winter storm, not only one brewing just right now, but one that is coming our way, and, in fact, over much of the continental United States. And it's going to be a doozy -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, we're an earnings season right now. And Netflix just came out with earnings after the bell.

What gets closely scrutinized at Netflix, about whether they make the numbers, it isn't so much their earnings, which beat, or the sales, which were a little bit less than expected. It's all about subscribers, how many people they're signing up, and that what get to be increasingly higher rates.

Netflix saying that it's signed up an additional 8.8 million customers. They were expected to add about 9.4 million, so a little bit of a disappointment there. Also guided the markets slightly lower for future quarters here.

That isn't necessarily a death knell. Keep in mind it recently hiked prices up to 18 percent for subscribers. But this report has been deemed a disappointment. The stock is sliding about 4 percent in after-hours trading.

Also, we're focusing on developments with Mother Nature right now. Amtrak has already announced it's going to cancel Northeast U.S. trains and reduce service ahead of what is going to be a very, very big storm.

We don't know the exact time this is going to kick in, but they're taking no chances.

Rick Reichmuth, who has been monitoring this, where do we stand on this thing?

RICK REICHMUTH, METEOROLOGIST: Well, it's still a Saturday night, Sunday storm. So timing, I think, we know a little bit better. What we don't know is exactly where that line is between rain and snow.

And we probably won't know that still for a little bit. The bulk of the energy is still out here just off the shore of California. It's hard to get a sense of exactly where a center of a storm that's way over here is going to be by the time it gets towards the Eastern Seaboard.

But that's what we're dealing with. This is what the West looks like right now. We have had such an incredibly rainy and snowy week, which is great news ultimately for drought, great news for the ski areas, but unfortunately problematic when it comes for some of those mudslides, especially in some of the burn areas.

And then you go in across the Intermountain West, we will get a lot of snow across places like Wyoming and Utah and Colorado from this storm over the next couple of days. So, again, that's all good news.

Now, there was one storm that moved through yesterday. It's moving very quickly. It's already headed towards the Eastern Seaboard, this a quick mover. Because it's quick mover, it's not going to stick around that long and not going to cause any big snowfall totals.

But you might wake up tomorrow to about a half-an-inch or an inch of snow. It's this storm that's now moving in across parts of the West. It meets some energy in the upper Northwest, Upper Northern Plains. This is Sunday morning.

So we have got a situation here where we have got a very tight line between rain and snow. And, unfortunately, that tight line is right around the I- 95 Corridor that has so many people living in that area.

So the impacts are going to either be some pretty big rain or some icing or some snow, depending exactly where that goes, and one of these storms we don't know exactly where that happens.

Point out what the totals look like accumulating from this, this Friday storm not much of a big deal, but it's this Saturday-Sunday. Interior sections, parts of New England, northern New England is going to get a lot of snow for this, for sure. Right here on the coast, take a look at that. Neil, that's New York. That's Philadelphia, one side green, one side white, snow.

Somebody is going to get more so than rain than we thought. And we don't know exactly where that will be.

CAVUTO: Man, oh, man, it's going to be a doozy, I guess, right?

REICHMUTH: It is.

CAVUTO: Well, it depends, right?

REICHMUTH: And it happens on a weekend, so that helps.

CAVUTO: All right, unless you're working the weekend, like you and I are.

REICHMUTH: Yes. Exactly.

CAVUTO: OK, wonderful.

All right, thank you very much, my friend, Rick Reichmuth.

As Rick was chatting here, New Jersey becomes the latest state to have a $15 minimum wage, the governor announcing, Phil Murphy, that he and Democratic leaders of the legislature, they have the run of the table in the Garden State, have imposed a minimum wage of $15 an hour by 2024.

This continues a trend right now for higher minimum wages, some phased in quickly, others in this case through 2024. But it's official, making good on a campaign promise. Remember, he succeeded Chris Christie.

Then there are the markets that we have obsess about, then the day-to-day events like shutdowns, and all of this stuff. You know, there was a legendary investor who paid no heed to these crosscurrents. He knew what was going on, but he argued, don't obsess about the moment.

John Bogle, remembering a giant -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Think quick.

What is your first reaction when I say Wall Street? I'm betting money, or rich, or very rich, or maybe fat cats, an elite crowd, but not a very big crowd.

But you know what legendary investor John Bogle wanted folks to think when they heard the words Wall Street? Main Street, a place not just for the 1 percent, but the other 99 percent as well.

Thing is, John was saying this at a time when Wall Street was kind of like its own special amusement park, but a park only for the very rich, because only they could pay the very high fees to enter, until John came along with a special discounted fast pass that opened that park up to not nearly so rich, in fact, most not at all rich.

He offered them cheaper tickets to hop on the same rides. Put another way, John Bogle gave Main Street access to Wall Street, and not just to buy a stock, but lots of stock, not just a sector of the market, the whole market, just like the big guys.

You see, John invented something called the index fund that allowed regular, average folks to mimic the market without paying through the nose. Now they could all be players, investing in funds that track the performance of popular averages like the S&P 500.

And since John figured few money managers could consistently beat those averages, well, why pay all of those high fees?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOGLE, INVESTOR: The problem with mutual fund management, as you know, Neil, is that the more money the manager gets, the less the fund investor gets.

I mean, this is not a complicated financial situation.

CAVUTO: So, what do you do? You cut down their fees?

BOGLE: We have to cut down management fees, yes.

Mutual funds have had a big problem for a long, long time in putting the interest of their fund shareholders ahead of the interests of their management companies,. They have not done that, Neil, in my opinion.

The fund independent directors to take on the power and responsibility to negotiate with the managers for the best fees for the shareholders they're honor-bound to represent.

The term index fund is becoming useless. It's low-cost index fund.

CAVUTO: Yes.

BOGLE: If you want to make a lot of money, if the manager or sponsor wants to make a lot of money, they're putting costs that I think are grossly excessive on the funds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Let's just say those managers might not have been smitten, but average investors were.

Bogle was at the vanguard of that, and appropriately enough, Vanguard was the name he chose for the investment firm that would champion that, mimic the markets, but not the price.

Consider this. The average expense ratio for managed mutual funds these days is about 62 bucks for every $10,000 invested. Bogle got it down to 11 bucks. Now, average that in each year, every year for each $10,000, every $10,000, you're saving a lot of money, which means you are making a lot of money, and not for one stock, as I said, for lots of stocks.

Don't look for the needle in the haystack, John would famously remind me. Just buy the haystack. He not only democratized Wall Street, but created a financial juggernaut in Vanguard that manages five trillion bucks in assets today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOGLE: We know cost is important, and I try to recognize that at Vanguard.

We know low turnover is important. I try to recognize that at Vanguard. We know -- this is not a secret. Every Nobel laureate in economics will tell you to go to index funds.

I'm doing about 50 percent stocks, 50 percent bonds.

CAVUTO: Not a bad strategy of late.

BOGLE: It's not a bad strategy. It's a little conservative.

But, on the other hand, I'm probably, to say the least, a little bit older than most of your viewers.

CAVUTO: But you're also in the money, bottom line, and incredibly so.

BOGLE: Oh, yes.

I kind of go through life a little bit, Neil, to be honest with you, kind of with blinders on. We have got a job to do every day. And so you look straight ahead and go ahead and do the job.

And I build a company that is pretty much exempt from all the kinds of things that are going on out there. And I have also been talking about building a better industry since I wrote my senior thesis at Princeton a half-a-century ago.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: But here's the thing about telling average folks that Oz is just a guy behind a curtain charging you a lot of dough.

The guy behind that curtain gets more angry, then a lot angry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOGLE: One of the worst things that has happened to 401(k) is giving people a brokerage option. They can have their own private brokerage account in their 401(k).

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, you subscribe to the view that get an index fund, something like that, it's cheaper, and generally it always beats these other guys anyway.

I talk to a lot of these fund managers. They hate you for saying that, John.

BOGLE: Well, I mean, I don't know. Has anybody said I'm wrong?

CAVUTO: Well, some of them say that, depending on the time period, they can beat you.

BOGLE: Well, sure, some of them can. If you got 100 of them here, I'm sure all 100 of them will say that they can.

CAVUTO: Right.

BOGLE: But I think, probably, in a given year, one out of three will. And in 50 years, if any of them stay around that long, one out of 100 will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Bogle was a very reassuring presence during market crises too, famously saying of each and all, this too shall pass, and that those who obsess over short-term dips were kind of dips themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOGLE: Investors should keep their emotions the heck out of the way.

Calm down. Stay cool.

CAVUTO: All right, but everyone's getting antsy about this.

BOGLE: Yes.

CAVUTO: What do you say?

BOGLE: Well, first of all, times of -- this kind of news in the market, times of duress are terrible times to make investment decisions.

You want to -- you really do want to make investment decisions when you're cool, and not when you're hot.

The daily movements of the market are a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

CAVUTO: All right, well, seeing as I'm one of those idiots who has to do it every day, you're saying not to get too worried about the here and now, right?

BOGLE: No.

The long-run economics for stocks Neil, I think, are pretty good. We should be looking out for 10-year returns. That's the time frame you ought to have if you're an equity investor. Don't do something. Just stand there. And, above all, don't peek at your portfolio.

CAVUTO: Well, wait a minute John.

If you're dollar-cost averaging or putting the same amount in every month to a fund or an aggregate basket of stocks, I mean, should you just keep doing that or pull back?

BOGLE: Keep -- absolutely, always keep doing the same thing. Stay your course. It's the best advice, and ignore the bumps along the way.

No one knows what the stock market's going to do in the future. How would they know that?

CAVUTO: I thought you did.

(LAUGHTER)

BOGLE: Well, I think it's going to track the earnings and dividends of American business. And that's what this is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: I don't even remember the crises going on with each and one of those clips that we're looking at, though.

He never called himself a genius, even if he was, insisted he wasn't all that powerful, even though TIME magazine called him among the world's most powerful, famously cheap and remarkably humble.

The only thing I could ever recall John Bogle bragging about wasn't about flying private, God forbid, but the deal he just scored buying an economy seat flying commercial.

He was rich and famous. He just didn't like being called rich and famous, and God forbid hanging out in Davos with the rich and famous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: To, me it looks like a super cool club. That's it.

BOGLE: Yes.

Well, I mean, let's say it is a super cool club. I'm just not into super cool. And I'm not sure I'm rich, powerful or famous either.

But what it's turned out to be, I think, Neil, as I said in the -- in the Journal op-ed, is, what was once a global economic forum, of all things, called the Global Economic Forum, is now kind of a show of glitz and showoff, and, as I put the in the op-ed, star -- business stars and Hollywood starlets.

Somebody told me, I guess, on good authority, that if they don't give you a ticket to go, they send you one for $25,000.

CAVUTO: Right. You pay through the nose, right, right.

BOGLE: Neil, you know Bogle well enough to know $25,000 ain't going out of my pocket.

CAVUTO: I know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVUTO: Twenty-five thousand? How about 25 bucks?

That's why, when you went out to dinner with John Bogle, you knew he would not pick up the check, but you also knew you were the one being treated, so you didn't really care. It was a great dinner with a great man.

I'm going to miss him, a lot -- John Bogle dead at age 89.

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