Which candidate will stand out at the GOP debate?
Why all eyes will be on Trump and Carson; Insight on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," October 27, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." And tonight, we are less than 24 hours away from the third 2016 Republican debate that's taking place in Boulder, Colorado. It couldn't come at a more interesting time. A brand- new national poll has Dr. Ben Carson slightly ahead of Donald Trump.
On the ground with a preview of what we can expect, campaign Carl Cameron -- Carl.
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Sean. Welcome to Boulder.
Big battle tomorrow. And the race got a shake-up today. For the first time in three months, Donald Trump is not -- not -- the national front-runner. The CBS/New York Times poll, as you said there, shows that He is now second place to Ben Carson, who is at 26 percent and still rising.
Trump this morning took to the phones and started calling in to morning shows to beat up on Ben Carson, said he didn't understand the polls, didn't understand the polls nationally or in Iowa because, in his view, he's still the front-runner. And he took some shots at Ben Carson, suggesting that he has flip-flopped on issues and that there's some questions that have yet to be answered.
He actually suggested that Carson's position on abortion has evolved. And in the fact, Trump's position on abortion has also evolved.
The key to Carson's success and support appears to be with self- described Christian conservatives, born-again Christians in Iowa, social conservatives, religious conservatives and Tea Partiers across the board in the Iowa and in the national polls. It shows that Ben Carson has a hefty lead, in some cases more than 2 to 1 over Donald Trump when it comes to those key core primary voters in the Republican race.
That's the up-ballot part of this. The down-ballot part of it -- and it'll all be fought out on the debate stage tomorrow -- how Trump and Carson deal with one another will be very interesting. Carson has not been fighting back. Trump continues to attack.
But the undercard, if you will, on the top-tier primetime debate is the battle really between Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. Rubio has been showing some momentum and traction in the polls, sort of at the top of the second tier, if you will. Jeb's still having trouble. He downsized his campaign just last week, has to explain all of that all for the last couple of days. And Trump continues to pound him.
Now Jeb Bush has changed his focus and is focusing on Marco Rubio, saying that he's the GOP Obama -- meaning he's a freshman senator with limited experience and not a lot of achievements compared to Bush, as the former governor of Florida, who was a two-term governor but has been out of office for 10 years.
So Marco Rubio has already begun responding to that by saying, Hey, listen, it's time for change. We need a generational change in our politics and in the people in office.
So the battle's obviously raging today, Trump in second place, new territory for him, hasn't been in second place in three months. And they'll all be on stage tomorrow night here in Boulder -- Sean.
HANNITY: All right, thanks, Carl.
And here with reaction, from The Weekly Standard, Steve Hayes, from The Washington Times Charles Hurt, Fox News political analyst Juan Williams.
I'm not so sure I buy the full narrative. There's no doubt, Charles, that there's momentum, especially in Iowa, which I would argue probably on paper is not Donald Trump's best state. I mean, this is a state that Mike Huckabee won and Rick Santorum won. They didn't win the nomination. But the RealClearPolitics average, Including The New York Times, still has Trump ahead 4.8.
Don't you have to look at the aggregate?
CHARLES HURT, WASHINGTON TIMES: Yes, I think so. And of course, it's important to remember, in Iowa, you know, Christian conservatives getting behind a candidate -- there's a long history of that, you know, and then they often -- usually go on not to win much more beyond that. We saw it with Mike Huckabee last time and -- or Rick Santorum last time and Mike Huckabee before that.
And I agree with you. I think that the larger polls beyond Iowa are going to be very crucial. And if the GOP establishment is looking at this and thinking that they're now off the hook, well, Ben Carson is no more in the GOP establishment than Donald Trump is. And to me, that is the more -- the most important thing that we're looking at here.
HANNITY: Yes. I also think -- I don't know to the extent, and maybe you can help us out, Steve Hayes -- the amount of money that has been spent in Iowa against Donald Trump. I'd like to know that number. And I don't think Trump has responded to the ads. It might be having an effect. I know the Club for Growth was going to go up. So I think it's too early to tell, and I don't know if Iowa's going to be the biggest indicator anyway. I think I'm looking more towards New Hampshire, South Carolina. Your thoughts.
STEPHEN HAYES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, sounds like you're making excuses, Sean. Come on!
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: I'm not making excuses, I'm looking at the race realistically.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: What I see happening, though -- I'm reading one article after another where the GOP establishment is scared to death of Donald Trump and Ben Carson. That's what I'm seeing.
HAYES: Well, on that we can agree. I mean, I think, certainly, you know, Charlie's right. This is not necessarily good news. Nobody in the Republican establishment is opening champagne and clinking glasses at this point.
But I think we've very clear seen a trend. You've seen these three polls in Iowa over the past week. Now you've got this indication that this might be something broader than Iowa, outside of, Iowa with this CBS/New York Times poll.
I think the thing that has to concern Donald Trump is the CBS/New York Times poll which shows Ben Carson in first place for the first time, as Carl reported, in three months...
HANNITY: I think you should pay close attention to it. But here's the interesting thing. It's not an establishment guy taking the place of Trump. It's another outsider.
You know, I watched Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham said, On our side, you've got the number two guy who tried to kill someone at age 14. I think one of the most inspiring life stories is Ben Carson and how his mother changed his life around. So I thought that was a cheap shot.
Then he said, The number one guy is a high-energy guy that's crazy as hell. And I'm thinking, Hey, Lindsey, you're 1 percent in the polls. You know, really? Isn't that why so many people don't like the establishment candidates, Steve?
(CROSSTALK)
HAYES: I think that was out of (INAUDIBLE) out of line, particularly the shot against Ben Carson. I wouldn't have said it. I don't think -- I don't think he ought to be engaged in that kind of criticism.
But I think the thing that has to concern Trump about the New York Times poll in particular is that it comes at a time when people are increasingly paying attention to the campaign. Up just from September, 7 percent more people said that they're paying attention to the campaign this month...
HANNITY: That's all true.
HAYES: ... than last month...
HANNITY: But you know what?
HAYES: ... which I think has to concern Trump.
HANNITY: I would expect more volatility in a race at this point for the very reason you're describing...
HAYES: Yes, I agree.
HANNITY: ... more people paying attention. I think we're going to see a lot more movement. On your side, it looks things are -- looks like things are sewn up. Is there any one candidate you, Juan Williams, want the coronated candidate on your side to go up against?
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: On the Republican side?
HANNITY: Yes, who would you -- who do you want to win the Republican nomination, as a supporter of Hillary's?
WILLIAMS: You know, I've never thought of it in these terms. But I mean, you know...
HANNITY: I'm helping you out.
WILLIAMS: But I tell you, if I was a Republican, I'd be more of an establishment Republican. And clearly, as we just heard, you've got about half of the Republican electorate going for Trump or Carson.
HANNITY: Right.
WILLIAMS: So it's all about...
HANNITY: You think it's...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I want to pick up on something you said earlier.
HANNITY: Yes. Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: Because I don't think it got enough attention. Club for Growth has put a million into ads attacking Trump...
HANNITY: They work!
WILLIAMS: ... just in the last week or two, and the polls now are going down. So yes, Carson's doing well in terms of social values, but Carson's supporters are not saying, yes, he's definitely our guy. I think 80 percent say-
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: ... Oh, we're not sure. But on Trump's side, guess what? More than half say, We're definitely with Trump. And Trump has ground troops in Iowa right now.
HANNITY: Yes. And don't you think Trump's going to respond? And don't you think Ben Carson will be the next victim of the establishment attacks?
WILLIAMS: Oh, I think Ben -- you can see it coming already, I mean, because of the attacks, and coming from -- I mean, Trump's going to -- tomorrow night at the debate, you expect that Trump is going to go at Ben Carson. He's going to start talking about Ben Carson...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: ... on abortion and all these issues, past history.
HAYES: But what's he going to do? I mean, is he going to really -- is Donald Trump really going to criticize Ben Carson for inconsistency?
(LAUGHTER)
HAYES: I mean, that is hilarious!
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: We can add Hillary Clinton to the mix, too, Steve, here. I mean, she's changed...
(CROSSTALK)
HAYES: Look, a lot of politicians change their views. But I would say Trump -- that probably shouldn't be his leading argument.
HANNITY: All right, guys, we appreciate you being here. We got a busy news night tonight on "Hannity."
And coming up next...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's time to be honest. Fewer gun safety laws don't mean more freedom. They mean more danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Ah! Finally, the president goes to his home town of Chicago to talk about the city's out-of-control violence. I would argue too little, too late. We'll have a full report with Geraldo Rivera and Bo Dietl. They're here with reaction.
Then it's the video everyone in the country is talking about, a sheriff's deputy caught on tape aggressively arresting a high school student. Now the Department of Justice is investigating the incident. Is there more to the story than what you see on tape? We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." Gun violence and murders are surging in Chicago, according to The Tribune. Well, during this past weekend alone, multiple shootings left 28 people wounded, 6 more dead. And that's not all. The Chicago Tribune is also reporting that so far this year, over 2,500 people have been shot.
Now, for months right here on this program, we've been calling on the president to stop politicizing tragic mass shootings and called on him -- Go travel to your own home town, Mr. President, where gun violence is actually an epidemic.
Now, finally, earlier today, the president did just that, but he just called for more gun control. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We shouldn't sell military assault-style weapons to civilians. They don't need them. They don't need them to hunt a deer.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: It's time to be honest. Fewer gun safety laws don't mean more freedom, they mean more danger. So I'm going to keep calling on the folks in Congress to change the way that they think about gun safety.
Some of, you know, you are watching certain television stations or listening to certain radio programs. Please do not believe this notion that, somehow, I'm out to take everybody's guns away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Well, you keep mentioning Australia and Great Britain. Why would I ever think that?
Joining us now with reaction, former NYPD detective Bo Dietl, Fox News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera.
I got a license to carry -- New York, California, Rhode Island, Alabama, Georgia. I've carried my entire adult life. Now, under Obama's scenario, would I have the right to do that, do you believe?
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I do. I think that you're a responsible person. You've gone through all the training. Sean, you're exactly the person who the 2nd Amendment had in mind. What the president...
HANNITY: But what about every American in New York? You know how -- it took me three years and multiple death threats to get a permit, Geraldo!
RIVERA: It is difficult in New York, and for good reasons. But what the president was talking about there in his home town was the guns and gang epidemic. There is -- there is no doubt that there is a flood of illegal guns on the streets of this...
HANNITY: Short of confiscation...
RIVERA: ... of this country...
HANNITY: So wait!
RIVERA: ... and murder...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... you're not going to stop -- you're not going to make criminals obey the laws!
BO DIETL, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: You know, like in Chicago -- they have very tough gun laws in Chicago also. But the problem is -- and what the FBI director said was completely true. I talk to cops all the time out in front of our building, all over the city, other cities.
There is the Ferguson effect going on. That's why crime is rampant now. The cops -- and they're not going to admit it, of course. They're not going to say they're not doing their job. What they're doing is taking the report after the incident. They're not proactive.
When you have the disrespect that you have for a cop, like that punk that killed that hero cop that we're burying tomorrow in my old stomping grounds of East Harlem, where I was a cop and a detective up there, you know what? They're not afraid of cops.
The audacity to shoot this young man in between his eyes like that, a man in uniform...
HANNITY: (INAUDIBLE)
DIETL: ... is disgusting. And this is what's going on in our communities. And these kids all now carry guns, and they're not afraid to shoot a cop!
HANNITY: James Comey, the FBI director, talked about this Ferguson effect yesterday. And he said, I've spoken to officers in one big city. They describe being surrounded by young people with mobile phones and cameras taunting them the minute they get out of their car. Quote, "We feel like we're under siege, and we don't feel like getting out of our cars."
RIVERA: There is no doubt...
HANNITY: Here's one point.
RIVERA: OK.
HANNITY: Obama is partly responsible by jumping into the Ferguson case without facts, the Trayvon Martin case without facts. You know, where's -- where's his responsibility to cops?
RIVERA: I see it differently. I think there is a "blue flu" going on. I think there is cops now saying to themselves, Wait a second, let me stay in the car, I'll get out of the car, I'll get in trouble, maybe I'll lose my career. That is definitely happening.
But back to where the really aggravated violence is coming from -- it is guns in the hands of gang-bangers!
HANNITY: But -- but...
RIVERA: Let me finish, Sean! What we have...
HANNITY: How are we going to take them away?
RIVERA: ... hip-hop and gangsta rap, this whole -- has created an alternate universe!
HANNITY: How are you going to stop...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... wiseguys are celebrated and...
HANNITY: But here's my question...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: How do you stop it without taking away the rights of people like me...
DIETL: Yes, but when...
HANNITY: ... responsible, trained, law-abiding citizens?
DIETL: You know what? I think the gun control thing -- you're missing the point. When you take the New York City Police Department, one of the largest police departments, and now you've effectively taking stop and frisk away, where you're not -- they're not out there getting these guns off the street, that's when violence is going to increase. Shootings and murders are going to increase! The only way you can get these illegal guns -- not the NRA owners -- is by getting out there...
HANNITY: Taking them!
DIETL: ... tossing them! We had a thing...
HANNITY: Taking them!
DIETL: ... called tossing. And then you have a lawyer like my friend, Geraldo, saying, Well, you illegally searched them, Bo. Well, I want to get that gun off the street...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: You didn't answer my question!
RIVERA: ... Obama got a standing ovation from those cops!
HANNITY: Here's my question.
RIVERA: Sean, he got it from the cops.
HANNITY: How do you...
RIVERA: Not from Democrats.
HANNITY: ... stop criminals from getting guns and protect the rights of law-abiding citizens. Tell me how.
RIVERA: Prevent mass sales. Why should a person go and be able to buy a gun every week in Virginia? Why is that? There should be a record that says...
HANNITY: That's not going to stop it.
RIVERA: ... you bought a gun last week. How can you buy a gun this week? All these...
HANNITY: I'm a collector!
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... people have 30...
HANNITY: Am I allowed to buy guns?
RIVERA: Is it a collector, then you have a special certificate that you're a collector.
HANNITY: I need a special certificate?
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: If he wants to have 10 guns and he's a valid license holder and he's got them in a safe, it's your right!
HANNITY: But you know what? I will say this...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... the Jersey turnpike with trunks full of weapons selling them, dumping them in Newark, dumping them in Camden, New Jersey...
HANNITY: All right...
RIVERA: ... dumping them in New York...
DIETL: All I know is one thing...
HANNITY: Real quick.
DIETL: ... one thing real fast. I really love policemen. And when they can't do their jobs, the crime is going to spike!
HANNITY: Murder rate is going to go through the roof! And you know what? The president's rhetoric has contributed to an atmosphere where we have aligning with the Black Lives Matter movement, Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon. You know, what do we want, dead cops. It's disgusting.
DIETL: No, we want cops to protect us.
HANNITY: Protect. And they can't do their jobs because...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... feel that they're going to be handcuffed and tried!
All right, thank you both. Good to see you.
Coming -- a resolution has now been introduced to impeach the commissioner of the IRS. We'll talk to Congressman Jason Chaffetz and Congressman Jim Jordan. They'll explain why they're doing it.
But first tonight, outrage tonight over that video that shows a sheriff's deputy in South Carolina arresting a high school student. Was he justified in the use of that force? We'll explain.
Also, Shannon Bream is here tonight with a report on a new disturbing Planned Parenthood video that was just released earlier today. More coming up tonight on "Hannity."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." A Richland County sheriff's deputy in South Carolina was caught on tape forcefully removing a female student from a classroom. Now, the video went viral on social media, and like always, the left -- they rushed to judgment, quick to blame the cops for using excessive force.
Now, here's what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up. Just stand up for me. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now, it was announced earlier today that the FBI and the Department of Justice's Civil Rights division are now investigating the incident. But during a press conference this afternoon, a South Carolina sheriff said that earlier that there's another video that shows the student hitting the officer before that confrontation.
Here with reaction, former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman. Democratic strategist Jessica Tarlov is with us.
Mark, I might have a whole different take than you think here on this whole -- on this thing. I've always said I want armed retired policemen, former military guys in schools to protect the students. I don't see this is their role, if they're working there, if there's a discipline problem in the classroom, unless it's violent. Does that make sense?
MARK FUHRMAN, FMR. LAPD DETECTIVE: Well, it makes sense, Sean, but the resource officers is kind of a leftover from the late '80s, early '90s, the DARE program, where they brought officers onto campus mostly because of drugs and gangs, and they were there actually as an enforcement officer, as well as somebody to help the teachers maintain order. So that's left over.
And I think this is exactly what they do need to do. It's either this, or they call a uniformed unit, this armed patrol to come there, and then that amount of time, the situation could have got well -- well out of control by then.
HANNITY: And you know, Jessica, in some of these classrooms, it is so out of control, violence in the classroom. So you know, we don't know all the facts yet. Videos never tell all the story.
JESSICA TARLOV, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely.
HANNITY: It's all coming in. And everyone is quick to rush to judgment because there's never going to be an arrest or a physical confrontation that's going to ever look good on video!
TARLOV: Absolutely not. I mean, I think that anyone, when you look at it, when you look at the sheer size of the police officer and of the student, you know that this was not a fair fight in this way. There are ways that you could have approached this perhaps without hurling her out of her chair. When we see the other video, if she did strike him, that may change the dialogue to some degree. But I think...
HANNITY: Well, what are the -- what are the alternatives?
TARLOV: Well, I think an alternative would have actually been to clear the classroom and to talk to her one on one. We know that children become emboldened when they're around their friends. She was looking cool. She was talking back. So maybe if it was a one-on-one situation or one on three, because it was the teacher, the principal and the SRO (ph) officer, then maybe we would have had a better outcome.
HANNITY: And then at that point, nobody gets an education. Mark, what are your thoughts on that?
FUHRMAN: Well, you know, yes, you can clear the classroom. What happens on the street? Do you clear the street so you can talk to somebody? Let's not be ridiculous.
People need to actually be responsible for their own actions. And if you look at that video, do you notice that none of the other students get out of their desks? You don't hear anything. You don't hear any screaming. You don't hear them say, Stop, or anything else?
You kind of wonder if the students weren't on the side of the deputy, that she was that disruptive, that obnoxious that they didn't have any problem with what was going on.
And the other thing you said, Sean, the altercation doesn't look good, but those desks -- she was probably flailing about, and once she threw herself backwards, the officer is now in a position where he's got to get her out of that desk and get her in handcuffs because the situation has escalated by her choice.
HANNITY: Yes. In other words, her rhetoric, her talking back, et cetera...
TARLOV: But there was another...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: But the media never talks about what leads up to this, the whole story! You understand?
TARLOV: I understand completely. And we talked about this over the summer, the incident at Texas at the pool party, where we did talk about the entire story.
I think the fundamental issue here is about restoring civility in society. I understand the concerns of Black Lives Matter, of Blue Lives Matter, of all lives matter. I don't think that we're going to have a conversation that we're going to come together until incidents like this stop happening...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Who precipitated this?
TARLOV: She did, absolutely.
HANNITY: Who was noncompliant?
TARLOV: She was not. But that doesn't mean that if the officer used excessive force, then that justifies it. Adults are supposed to lead by example.
(CROSSTALK)
FUHRMAN: It wasn't excessive.
TARLOV: And we'll find -- you don't know if it was excessive yet.
FUHRMAN: It wasn't excessive.
TARLOV: The information -- we haven't seen the results of the investigation and...
(CROSSTALK)
FUHRMAN: I'll tell you why it's not -- I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why it's not excessive. He verbalized. He made contact. He verbalized. He was polite. He requested her, he verbally did that. The next level is he put a hand on her. She escalated it from there. He used soft control. He threw her on the ground. He handcuffed her. He didn't use mace. He didn't use a taser. He didn't use a stick. He didn't kick her. He didn't hit her. He didn't choke her.
He used the minimal amount of force necessary to effect an arrest. He'll be cleared of this.
HANNITY: All right, guys, thank you both for being with us. Appreciate it.
TARLOV: Thank you.
HANNITY: Coming up -- a new resolution has just been introduced to impeach the IRS commissioner. Congressman Jason Chaffetz and Congressman Jim Jordan -- they're here to explain what that's all about, also their positions on Paul Ryan.
Then later, Shannon Bream standing by in Washington with a disturbing new report about Planned Parenthood. A new undercover video has just been released. It shows a doctor talking about, once again, harvesting aborted fetuses. We have the tape straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So just days after the Justice Department announced it would not be filing charges against disgraced IRS official Lois Lerner for allegedly targeting conservative groups, a resolution introduced by House Oversight Committee Chair Jason Chaffetz was filed earlier tonight calling for the impeachment of the IRS commissioner, John Koskinen.
Joining us now to explain, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee members Congressman Jason Chaffetz who chairs the committee and Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio. Guys, good to see you both again. How did Lois Lerner, Congress Chaffetz, how did Lois Lerner get off in the first place? Don't we know she targeted these groups? Isn't there evidence proving she started these groups?
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, R-UTAH: We had months of investigations by the inspector general and he came and testified that indeed there was targeting. We know that for a fact. It's been well documented. And we also have documented that those documents in the possession of the IRS despite a subpoena were destroyed by IRS.
HANNITY: So we know that they targeted, the IRS, they destroyed evidence, and the Justice Department says no go. Is this a precursor of or a preview of coming attractions if the FBI were to find information about Benghazi, about the Clinton Foundation or confidential top secret information on the deleted e-mails? Does that mean it's politicized to that degree?
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: Sean, we have all kinds of confidence in the FBI. What we don't have confidence in is the Justice Department. Jason's exactly right. Look, Lois Lerner, there's all kinds of e-mail evidence where she says "Tea Party is dangerous." Where she says "We're going to start a C-4 project next year. We have to make sure it's not per se political," which is a nice way of saying it is political. We just have to try to hide the fact.
So there was all kinds of intent on Lois Lerner's part to target conservative groups, but yet this Justice Department said no to pressing and prosecuting Miss Lerner and anyone else at the IRS who may have done something wrong. That's unfortunate, but it's not the FBI. It's the Justice Department.
HANNITY: Congressman Chaffetz, walk us through the impeachment of the IRS commissioner. How do you do this?
CHAFFETZ: We filed this resolution. There were 19 members of us that filed it. It now gets referred to the Judiciary Committee. The heart of this concern, though, is that they have in their possession documents that were under subpoena and they destroyed those. Imagine, Sean, if the IRS had asked you for those documents and you said, well, I had them but I went ahead and destroyed them? What would happen to you?
HANNITY: You want an answer? I'd be handcuffed, fingerprinted, perp- walked, mugshotted and then thrown in a jail cell. That's what would happen to me.
CHAFFETZ: Yes. So we've done what hasn't been done since the late 1800s, and that is to file this resolution to impeach the IRS commissioner. And we intend to do that.
HANNITY: Moving on to some other things. Congressman Jordan, your group the freedom caucus met with Paul Ryan. Two-thirds, a supermajority, are supporting him. Jason Chaffetz standing next to you got out of the race. Dan Webster, as I understand, is still in. Tell us -- walk us through the process, the discussions you had with Congressman Paul Ryan. Were you given assurances things would change?
JORDAN: Yes.
HANNITY: Were you given assurances that they would use the power of the purse and not advance immigration reform, for example?
JORDAN: First of all, the first thing we were given is we're not going to change the motion to vacate. That's a right that's been around since Jefferson and we're not going to change that fundamental liberty that members of Congress have.
Second, Paul is the kind of guy who is an excellent messenger, who can talk about the big bold things we need to do that are going to help our constituents, help families, help the country get back on the right path. Talking about reform in the tax code, showing our replacement for Obamacare. Everyone knows Obamacare is terrible, our replacement, and talking about how to reform our social safety net system, our welfare system. So he talked about that.
He also assured us there's no way he's going to bring up an immigration bill. Maybe a border security bill that we actually do the right thing.
HANNITY: There won't be an amnesty bill. He assured no amnesty bill? He assured you no citizenship or path to citizenship?
JORDAN: He sure did. He sure did, because we met with him for an hour and every single one of our members was in that meeting, and I think just about every one of them asked questions, and that as certainly one of the questions that was asked and Paul assured that that was not going to be brought up.
HANNITY: Did he mention that he would use the power of the purse, which is your power under the constitution?
JORDAN: Yes.
HANNITY: With co-equal branches of government, that's an enumerated power that John Boehner was unwilling to use. Did that come up?
JORDAN: Sure did. And this is what we have to do better. You're seeing the worst kind of leadership right now where we get this bill thrown together at the last minute, a bill that I plan to oppose, a bill that our group is going to be against, you see it thrown together with all kinds of spending, all kinds of stuff, no real committee hearings, no real bringing people together and figuring out what's the best course of action how to move forward. He says we're not going to do that. We're not going to govern in a crisis to crisis type way. We're going to go early, come up with our position, send it to the Senate, and then most importantly, Sean, stand firm. And that's what our guys wanted to hear. That's why a supermajority of our group has endorsed Congressman Ryan.
HANNITY: Jason Chaffetz, as it relates to this budget deal, here we go, wait till the last minute once again. And $80 billion of more discretionary spending is part of the deal. Even Paul Ryan said that this is no way to do business. It's just not. Do you suspect it's going to change? Are you going to be supporting that Bill?
CHAFFETZ: I'm not. I worry about lifting the budget caps. I want to reprogram money. I do believe we need more money for our military and I support that aspect of it. But lifting the budget caps is not something I don't. Nor, if you are going to raise the debt ceiling you have to actually fix the problem so we don't have to keep coming back every several months and do that again.
I do believe Paul Ryan is the right agent of change. He has broad support. He is articulate on these issues. He probably knows more about budgeting and the appropriations process than anybody in this body. And I think it's time to give him a chance. I think he'll be a very good speaker.
HANNITY: Not that my advice matters much to anybody. But if I had any advice for the new speaker and Republicans, it's time to hit the reset button. When 60 percent of your base feels betrayed by you, I would put your vision, your promises on paper, let the conference sign it, and then you got to keep the promises to gain faith back in those people that you've lost faith with.
JORDAN: Well said, Sean. I think you're exactly right. Let's project our vision out there and let's fight hard for it and tell the American people how we're going to do what we told them we were going to do, how we're going to stand for those principles that we think make our country great.
HANNITY: All right, guys, thank you both for being with us, appreciate it.
CHAFFETZ: Thanks, Sean.
HANNITY: And coming up, the co-hosts of "The View" slamming Dr. Benjamin Carson for his stance on abortion. We're going to play you that tape. That's coming up next.
Plus another undercover video just released exposing new disturbing practices at Planned Parenthood. We'll check in with Shannon Bream. She's standing by in D.C. with a full report and more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." Yet another undercover video has been released by the Center for Medical Progress that exposes the very disturbing practices of Planned Parenthood. We must warn you, this one, like all the others, is extremely alarming. Standing by in D.C. tonight with all the details is our own Shannon Bream. Shannon?
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Sean, today there is yet another inside look at conversations with Planned Parenthood employees who describe exactly what they do. One doctor talking about aborting pregnancies at more than 21 weeks. And as you said, we should warn viewers they may find the video and the statements disturbing.
In the portion we're about to show you, a woman at the Center for Medical Progress, that's the group producing these vides identifies as Dr. Amna Dermish talks about attempt to perform and abortion while also keep the head or calvarium intact. It appears she thinks she is talking with potential buyers for the fetal body parts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven't been able to do that yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get the calvarium?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It will give me something to strive for.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: The woman says she trained with Dr. Deborah Nucatola, Planned Parenthood's senior director of medical services. You saw her in the first undercover video that was released talking about performing abortions in a way to best harvest organs buyers are most interested in. Doctors say that they can crush above and below specific points. CMP founder David Daleiden says the new video shows evidence in his opinion of two potential crimes, using procedures he says mirror partial birth abortion, which is banned, and discussing the possible sale of fetal organs and body parts. Since CMP began releasing these videos in July, Planned Parenthood maintained it has done nothing illegal, and that the videos have been dishonestly edited and doctored in order to discredit the organization. The raw video for all the video released so far is available online with the exception of material that CMP is under court order not to release to the public. Sean?
HANNITY: But Shannon, to be clear, those videos, I know the claim keeps going out there that they've been edited, but they've been releasing the entire tapes as available short of the court order, correct?
BREAM: They are. And the transcripts are online as well.
HANNITY: Shannon Bream in Washington, thank you.
Joining us the president of Live Action, Lila Rose, FOX News contributor Leslie Marshall. Lila, let's go through the list of laws that are broken here. It's illegal to alter the abortion procedure to save specific body parts, is it not.
LILA ROSE, PRESIDENT, LIVE ACTION: Sure. There's a federal law that you can't alter the abortion procedure in order to harvest body parts. The abortionist actually can't even know that body parts might be donated afterwards.
Secondly, illegal partial birth portions and the Dr. Amna Dermish in these tapes from this morning is explaining how she delivers the baby breach and then destroys maybe the baby by ripping its legs off or extracting the brain. That's a hallmark position of the illegal late-term abortion, partial-birth portion procedure. And then finally of course selling body parts violates federal law. So extremely disturbing, heartbreaking, and illegal.
HANNITY: Leslie, these tapes are just incontrovertible. The evidence is overwhelming. The lack of sensitivity stands out on its own. They're drinking wine and eating their salads and talking about buying Lamborghinis as they buy body parts for money. So I would assume that you are pretty disgusted by that.
But let's talk about the legality of it. Multiple crimes on that that they're admitting to breaking, including selling body parts, negotiating the price of body parts, altering abortion procedures, which is illegal, partial birth abortion, late-term abortions, which also is illegal. A lot of crimes we're talking about here. How do you defend this group? Why should they get one penny of taxpayer dollars?
LESLIE MARSHALL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, when we look at what has been or hasn't been done, I don't think that these videos are fair to look to, not only because of the edits but, two, because we do have --
HANNITY: But wait, they're released in their entirety. The ones that have been released, I've seen them --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Leslie, it was not taken out of context.
ROSE: Independent groups have validated the full footage and authenticated it, saying that nothing was taken out of context, nothing was unfairly edited out or spliced. It speaks for itself. And it's so horrific. And that's why you can't argue it away. You can't defend it. It's indefensible.
MARSHALL: Well, if it's indefensible, then where are the cuffs? How come there have been no cuffs on anybody from this doctor --
ROSE: And there should be.
MARSHALL: And there are investigations that are ongoing.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Exactly. And one of the problems that I have with this is -- is it uncomfortable? Absolutely. Are there many of us like me --
HANNITY: Is it gruesome? Leslie, would you use the word "gruesome" and "grotesque" and "heartless"?
MARSHALL: Of the procedure? Absolutely.
HANNITY: Not just that but the discussion of selling baby body parts.
MARSHALL: I'm not going to go as far to judge somebody else's decision.
(CROSSTALK)
ROSE: I think that's a copout, Leslie. We should be judging these decisions.
MARSHALL: With regards to legality, Lila.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: One at a time. Hang on.
ROSE: -- illegal activity on tape. And people across the country are expressing their outrage on both sides of the political spectrum. So that's why it's a shame that our Department of Justice is not doing a thorough investigation like many states are in order to ultimately lead into prosecution and convict where the crimes are taking place, convict these top level Planned Parenthood abortionists of selling body parts, of committing illegal late term abortion. I mean, crime after crime that's now public and the public can see it's a crime.
MARSHALL: First of all, I'd like to get a word in edgewise, and I'm going to right now. One, we don't have any evidence that they have been breaking the law with regard to body parts because there were fees for service which Planned Parenthood is no longer taking. Two, we do not know if IED was involved which is involved in partial birth abortion which is not a medical term but which is a political term.
And then, three, we do not know if a chemical other than the general chemical used by this physician, so we do not know that in fact she has violated a law.
ROSE: We know laws were broken.
MARSHALL: Then how come nobody --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I understand the difference that some people describe themselves as prochoice. This is indefensible. The tapes speak for themselves.
Let me move on, though, because Ben Carson took a position on abortion, and look how the ladies of "The View" treated him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Despicable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What can you say to that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, sir, no disrespect, truly no disrespect, but it's not your call. You don't get --
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't decide. You don't decide for what anybody's family care what they are going through and what they need.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what he said? He said during slavery a lot of slave owners had the right to do whatever they wanted to the slaves. So what if the abolitionists didn't speak up and say no, this is not wrong. Just go ahead and do whatever you want to, which doesn't make any sense. And he said that in regards to abortion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's identifying with the abolitionists to protect the fetus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he's doing the exact same thing that the slave owners did, saying and making choices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: So, Leslie, can't you be prolife? I take the position that is rape, insist, and mother's life. I want people if they're going to make decisions to be responsible. Is this is the language the left is going to use because somebody believes that life begins at conception, really? Do you find that nauseating?
MARSHALL: First of all, if you're going to run for president you're going to have people on either side --
HANNITY: I didn't ask you that. Isn't that language over the top?
ROSE: It's over the top.
MARSHALL: I don't think this is over the top.
ROSE: Way over the happen.
MARSHALL: This is a man who doesn't agree with you regarding rape and insist, Sean. How do we tell a child he's been raped by --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: All right, Lila gets the last word.
ROSE: I think we can do better for women who are victims of sex abuse and trauma to say that abortion is a pathway to healing. Abortion is not a pathway to healing. It's another violent act. And that's why we need to be holding Planned Parenthood accountable for the violent acts and the selling of baby body parts. And the ladies of "The View," by the way, do not speak for American women. American women are largely against many kinds of abortion and that is where we stand.
HANNITY: When we come back, our "Ask Sean" segment is next, and we need your help with our "Question of the Day." And I have a message for the liberal media that you don't want to miss, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Time for our "Question of the Day." So do you think the president's visit to Chicago maybe a little too little too late? Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think. Now it's time for our "Ask Sean" segment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question for you is, how are we, the American people, supposed to keep our elected officials accountable when those we elect whose job it is to hold them accountable refuse to do their jobs? And how can we change that? Thanks. Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: I think that is a great question and an important one. Of course we want to keep politicians accountable. One thing I would argue, I've been very critical of Republicans, but the Benghazi select committee did get to the fact that Hillary's State Department had to request over 600 times for security before the attack in Benghazi. And also she was telling us a lie while telling her daughter, the Libyan president, the Egyptian prime minister the truth. So I think they got to the bottom of it at least in that case. You have to give credit where credit is due.
A quick programming note. Tune in tomorrow night at 10:00. The debate ends tomorrow right at 10:00. Right after the debate tune in right here to this show. We'll have reaction from the candidates, highlights, analysis, and much more. A special program tomorrow at 10:00 eastern.
Now, before we go, I don't normally spend my time, waste my time responding to stupidly from liberal websites that spend their days attacking me. And, by the way, nor do I read conspiracy websites that apparently they do.
Now, there is a group out there called PolitiFact, and they have been attacking me and this program for a figure I used about refugees being welcomed into the United States. So this one time I'm going to break my rule. I'll spend some time fact checking the so called fact checkers. You can throw aside, by the way, your government calculators there at PolitiFact.
Let me teach you some simple addition. I was quoting an AP article entitled "U.S. to accept 85,000 refugees in 2016, 100,000 in 2017." Well, that equals 185,000, right? That's not all. According to the same report, the State Department is currently accepting 70,000 refugees in 2015, in other words they said the 85 on top of the 70 they took in this year. That equals 255,000. That is how I came to the number.
And, by the way, for the record if you listen to the radio, watch my TV show, I never said all of the refugees were Syrian. I have mentioned numerous times that they're coming from Iraq and other countries.
Now, refugee migration is a complex topic. I can understand how these left wing critics could become so easily confused. But this is as simple as one plus one equals two. And when you're only advocating a political agenda like PolitiFact, I understand, guys, where you're coming from. So PolitiFact, to use your words, "liar, liar, your pants are on fire," get yourself a good calculator.
That is all the time we have left this evening. As always, thank you for being with us. We'll see you from Los Angeles tomorrow night.
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