Tucker: The left continues to dismiss the caravan threat

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Tucker: The left continues to dismiss the caravan threat

Liberals say the caravan was all hype as migrants fill Tijuana shelters; Tucker takes on progressive radio host Chris Hahn.

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," November 16, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight."

What's interesting about so many of the people you see talking on television is not just that they tell you things that they know are not true. They do. They lie regularly and they shade the truth even more than that. You, of course, knew that. It's obvious.

What's amazing is how they do it in unison. One will say something false and then, within, what seems like, minutes, all the others are saying it too, the exact same thing, sometimes word-for-word. It's like they're all texting each other in commercial breaks, or maybe they just know instinctively what the latest Democratic Party talking points will be.

We could give you endless examples of this. But here's the most recent one. In the days since last week's midterm elections, all the geniuses on cable have simultaneously decided that the migrant Caravan marching toward the United States is a mirage. It's not real. It never has been real. It was always a fake threat created by unscrupulous Right-wing politicians to win the last election.

Watch them sing that tune in perfect harmony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CILLIZZA, POLITICS REPORTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, CNN: This was never an urgent issue. These people were a 1,000-plus miles away from the border.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN NEWSROOM HOST, CNN: To also further your point, if you are so concerned about invaders and very bad people, wouldn't you be on the border today instead of your--

CILLIZZA: Correct.

BALDWIN: --Secretary of Defense.

ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK CITY JOURNALIST, INSIDE CITY HALL HOST, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They've been running on an imaginary Caravan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY CO-ANCHOR, CNN: The President talked a lot. He could stop talking about the so-called Caravan heading toward the border.

BILL MAHER, REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER HOST, HBO: This stupid (BEEP) Caravan--

(CROWD LAUGHTER)

You know, it's a lie that this Caravan is a - is a problem of that magnitude.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: The so-called Caravan, the imaginary Caravan. That's what Jeff Zucker told them to say. Too bad we now have pictures. Reality is the enemy of propaganda. And the reality on our Southern border tonight is that a large number of migrants from that Caravan are now massed just south of San Diego, and they're trying to get into this country.

In the meantime, those same people are overwhelming city services in Tijuana and causing a crisis there. The people from the Caravan are doing all of this because they actually exist. They are a physical reality, no matter what they're telling you on CNN. Well apparently, nobody has alerted California Senator Kamala Harris. She believes that anyone worried about illegal immigration must be a dangerous racist. And that's why she just compared federal law enforcement officers to the Ku Klux Klan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD D. VITIELLO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Klan was a what we would call today a domestic terrorist group.

KAMALA DEVI HARRIS, AMERICAN ATTORNEY, JUNIOR UNITED STATES SENATOR, CALIFORNIA: Why? Why would - why would we call them domestic terrorist group?

VITIELLO: Because they tried to use fear and force to change political environment.

HARRIS: And what was the motivation for the use of fear and force?

VITIELLO: It's based on race and ethnicity.

HARRIS: Right.

Are you aware of the perception of many about how the - the - the power and the discretion at ICE is being used to enforce the laws? And do you see any parallels?

VITIELLO: I do not see any parallels between sworn--

HARRIS: I'm talking about perception.

VITIELLO: --officers and agents.

HARRIS: I'm talking about perception.

VITIELLO: I - I do not see a parallel.

Attacking people (ph)--

HARRIS: Are you aware that there's a perception--

VITIELLO: I see no perception that--

HARRIS: --are you aware that there's a perception--

VITIELLO: --puts ICE in the same category as the KKK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: American citizens trying to protect their country's borders, upholding laws, passed by our democratically-elected Congress are somehow like the KKK. It seems like an especially stupid and vicious thing to say. It's cruel, really.

How would you feel if you're an ICE officer or your brother was? Can you imagine throwing out that kind of slander at your fellow Americans just for doing their jobs? You'd have to be an awfully self-righteous person to talk like that. Harris is, so were a lot of them.

Listen to Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, a man who advocates for unrestricted late-term abortion explain that he's on Jesus' team and you aren't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERROD CAMPBELL BROWN, SENIOR UNITED STATES SENATOR, OHIO: Jesus said, "When I was hungry, you fed me. When I was thirsty, you gave me drink. When I was a stranger, you welcomed me. What you did for those who seemed less important, you did for me." Not the least of these, it's just society may - may act like they're less important but we don't because we - we understand the value of people. We understand the dignity of work. We understand the values this country stands for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: We understand the value of little people, Senator Brown says. Really, do you? How about the millions of American workers whose wages haven't risen in decades, thanks in part to mass immigration? Or how, by the way, since we've - we're on the topic, how about the people of Tijuana?

The Caravan came north because they knew they'd have a shot of getting into this country. Democrats told them that. They encouraged this whole thing from the very first day. Now, it's a disaster.

The Mayor of Tijuana says his city is buckling under the weight of the migrants. Many of them are criminals, the Mayor of Tijuana says. Violence has broken out. People have been hurt.

Dozens of migrants never even made it to the border, by the way. They are still missing, presumably kidnapped by drug cartels. The human cost has been very high. Democrats are not talking about that cost, somehow. It's not interesting to them. It won't win them elections.

We'd like to talk about it though. That's why we invited Chris Hahn on. He's an attorney, radio host and former aide to Senator Chuck Schumer. He joins us tonight.

So Chris, before we even get to all that, Sherrod Brown from Ohio, who's been endorsed by NARAL, by the way, is lecturing us on Jesus. Do you think Sherrod Brown's a little bit closer to Jesus than, say, I am?

CHRISTOPHER HAHN, AMERICAN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC PARTY ACTIVIST, RADIO SHOW HOST: Well Matthew 25 applies here, don't you think? I mean that's what he was quoting. We have people who are fleeing for their lives, who are in desperate need, who want to come to this country and seek asylum legally, by the way, by presenting themselves at the border, and we are sending troops.

And, by the way, we're sending troops to Texas when they're coming in in San Diego if (ph)--

CARLSON: OK. Before you roll right into your talking point--

HAHN: --the President watching right now is going to (ph) move those--

CARLSON: --hold on, before you - before you get to the scripts (ph)--

HAHN: --he's got to (ph) move those troops.

CARLSON: --let me just - if you could address (ph) my question though, I mean is that the new standard? You think it's a fair standard? This is not something that I have introduced into this (ph). This is Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio is lecturing us about how he's on Jesus' team and we're not. Is that a fair form of political discourse? Is this a theocracy--

HAHN: I--

CARLSON: --to assess what Jesus would do--

HAHN: --I--

CARLSON: --first?

HAHN: No. I think we're pointing out the hypocrisy on the Right that likes to--

CARLSON: What's the (ph)--

HAHN: --claim that they're Christian. Yet, they ignore the teachings of Christ--

CARLSON: Who's wait (ph) so--

HAHN: --which Mathew 25 clearly directs us--

CARLSON: --OK. So--

HAHN: --to help those in need.

CARLSON: --oh they - they're hypocrites. So, people who don't believe in God get--

HAHN: They are.

CARLSON: --to tell Christians what it is to be a Christian. So, let me just ask you--

HAHN: I--

CARLSON: --which - which--

HAHN: --I would--

CARLSON: --politicians would you say right now on the Right are invoking Jesus when they talk about building a wall, like what exactly are you talking about?

HAHN: How about Mike Pence? How about - how about--

CARLSON: What did Mike Pence say?

HAHN: --Mike Pence every single day, everything he does, every time Mike Pence talks--

CARLSON: Name (ph)--

HAHN: --he invokes Christ.

CARLSON: Really, so--

HAHN: Every single time. I'm not going to name--

CARLSON: So give me just how about--

HAHN: --one. Every time--

CARLSON: --just - just one example--

HAHN: --pull any clip of any speech he's ever given.

CARLSON: --OK every time (ph) tell me - tell me who this (ph)--

HAHN: How about the Convention? The first thing he said--

CARLSON: --OK--

HAHN: --at the Convention was I'm a Christian, a father, and a Conservative in that order--

CARLSON: Oh, so, so he's a Christian--

HAHN: --that's what Mike Pence says. So, if he's--

CARLSON: --so--

HAHN: --really a Christian he should be practicing what Jesus taught in Mathew 25--

CARLSON: And you think that Jesus would not--

HAHN: --that would say the teachings of (ph) the Christ.

CARLSON: --Jesus would have open borders? Is that what you're saying? I mean is it I guess--

HAHN: When I was hungry did you--

CARLSON: --I guess my point is, is it a little - is it a little much--

HAHN: --when I was hungry did you feed me?

CARLSON: --no (ph), I'm aware of the verse. Hold on, I'm aware of the verse. So, but--

HAHN: Yes.

CARLSON: --you're comfortable with this is what you're saying.

HAHN: I don't know that. Look, I--

CARLSON: Let me - let me tell you--

HAHN: --I mean you're aware of it but I don't know that you believe it if that's what it - that's what it says, Tucker. And that's what Mike Pence--

CARLSON: Do you see yourself--

HAHN: --pretends to acknowledge but he doesn't.

CARLSON: I'm trying not to end this interview right now because I'm getting offended. I wonder if you understand the extent to which you're playing with fire, introducing religious faith, appropriating someone else's religious faith, by the way, into a conversation about--

HAHN: Right.

CARLSON: --public policy. Do you think that's a wise thing to do? Do you think if Mike Pence got up and said--

HAHN: Oh, I - I--

CARLSON: --I'm for building a wall and I'm quoting this scripture to justify it, I know for a fact that I would say, "Whoa, settle down. It's a public policy question--

HAHN: Well--

CARLSON: --it's a multi-ethnic, multi-religious country. Don't start doing that. It's not a theocracy." But you're saying that now that that's OK.

HAHN: Here's the thing. One, I didn't mean to offend you on religious grounds. I take that back--

CARLSON: Well I mean come on now, come on now, I'm on Jesus' team--

HAHN: --if you're offended. But two--

CARLSON: --and you're not--

HAHN: --the two but - well (ph)--

CARLSON: --like what is that?

HAHN: --I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. I'm just pointing out that many on the Right have taken Christ up as their banner of how they want to govern. And yet, when it comes to doing something like this, they ignore the teachings of Christ. I do not think--

CARLSON: OK.

HAHN: --that religion or - or - or scripture should be the basis of our governance in this country.

CARLSON: But it's OK when Sherrod Brown, Mr. Late-term abortion does it--

HAHN: I believe that the founders did (ph) separation of church and state for a reason--

CARLSON: --lecturing me on Jesus. OK.

HAHN: Well, look, look--

CARLSON: Let - let me ask you think, do you think it's all - since I guess- -

HAHN: --I mean--

CARLSON: --everything is allowed now, doesn't matter like whatever it takes to get what we want, is it OK to compare federal law enforcement officials to the KKK as Senator Harris did, yesterday?

HAHN: Well, look I watched - I watched that whole clip, Tucker. And, frankly, she was not comparing them to the KKK. She was suggesting to the nominee that there is a perception among some and, she even said, probably wrongfully, that there are people out there--

CARLSON: Then why oh, I get it. That is the most feline thing--

HAHN: --who are doing things to create fear--

CARLSON: --I think of. That is so--

HAHN: --just as the KKK did. So, how are we going to correct--

CARLSON: --OK.

HAHN: --the perception?

CARLSON: So, I get it. I get it.

HAHN: How are we going to correct the perception--

CARLSON: I get it, Chris. They're, look--

HAHN: --was the question she was asking.

CARLSON: --I mean a lot of Hitler's closest staff wore blue ties. I'm not calling you a Nazi. I'm just saying a lot of people think you are. And now that I've raised it and linked you to the Nazis, what's your response?

I mean, no, she's comparing federal law enforcement officials to the Klan. And I just wonder like is there a limit to what you can say in public if you're a U.S. Senator before you drive the country into some kind of internal conflict like can you really--

HAHN: I - look--

CARLSON: --say things like that now?

HAHN: --you should not - you should not - you should not compare law enforcement people to the Klan and--

CARLSON: Yes.

HAHN: --that is not what she was doing. She was asking - she was engaging in a conversation with somebody who's seeking to run--

CARLSON: Oh.

HAHN: --ICE on how he would change the perception among some people in this country that they should fear ICE in the same way that they fear--

CARLSON: Do you have a - is there a - wait - is there - is there a - is there a--

HAHN: --other groups even if that perception was wrong.

CARLSON: --poll on this? Hold on. But how would Kamala Harris, who's lived in rich person worlds her entire life, how exactly would she, like how would she know this? Does she have some polls--

HAHN: Well--

CARLSON: --she's point to (ph) people think that ICE is like the Klan?

HAHN: She--

CARLSON: I don't think she does.

HAHN: --she's obviously--

CARLSON: No, she's trying to impugn--

HAHN: --she - she obviously heard from - she's heard from--

CARLSON: --the personal integrity of people serving the country on the border, like what is this, the Klan?

HAHN: She's heard from constituents. She's heard from groups that represent people who are fearful of ICE in her - in her state. I'm sure she's trying to correct that fear because some - Senator Harris is a very sensible person. And I--

CARLSON: Just a - accuses the law enforcement of being like the Klan--

HAHN: --watched that entire clip. And I encourage everybody else to do.

CARLSON: --really? I think she's--

HAHN: She wasn't accusing them of anything.

CARLSON: --of course, she is. I think she's totally irresponsible. I want her to be responsible. She could be President.

Finally, is it time to concede that the Caravan is real and that they're overwhelming Tijuana? The Mayor of Tijuana says that a lot of members of the Caravan are violent criminals and he's afraid of them. Is - is he a racist, do you think? It sounds like he might be.

HAHN: Nobody said it wasn't real. They said it wasn't a real threat. And even General Mattis, General Kelly--

CARLSON: But the Mayor of Tijuana sounds like a flat-out racist, maybe a Klansman--

HAHN: --the - the - the General - the President's--

CARLSON: --do you think he is?

HAHN: --own Generals acknowledge that this is not a real threat to our national security and it was--

CARLSON: But the Mayor of Tijuana says it's a threat to him.

HAHN: --hyped up--

CARLSON: Well, hold on, wait, I mean I'm wondering, would - would Jesus be OK with what the Mayor of Tijuana has said? Is he a racist?

HAHN: Let me ask you something. Is - is--

CARLSON: He said they're violent criminals.

HAHN: --is - is Tijuana analogous to the United States of America and what (ph)--

CARLSON: I'm just asking. I mean the Mayor of Tijuana--

HAHN: --we should be afraid of is Americans. I would imagine the tiny city of--

CARLSON: --sounds like a hardened bigot.

HAHN: --Tijuana has a lot less resources than the United States of America. We have more people--

CARLSON: Oh, so he gets to be a bigot or a Klansman--

HAHN: --along our border I would imagine--

CARLSON: --I get it.

HAHN: --than there are--

CARLSON: OK.

HAHN: --police officers in Tijuana.

CARLSON: I'm worried. I think Jesus would be very upset about the Mayor of Tijuana. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm going to call Sherrod Brown about it after this, Father Brown, or maybe I'll see him on Sunday, preaching from the--

HAHN: Stop.

CARLSON: --pulpit. Chris, great to see you--

HAHN: Knows to (ph) preach.

CARLSON: --thank you.

HAHN: Thank you, Tucker (ph).

CARLSON: For the time being, America continues to welcome millions of low- skilled workers. What does that mean for American workers in the age of automation? Jobs are going away. What is everyone going to do in 20 years? We'll address that after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Well the percentage of foreign-born in the United States is the highest it's been in a century, maybe ever. It's hard exactly to know. But it's still rising in any case. 67 million Americans, more than one in five, speak a language other than English at home.

Pretty much, everyone in Washington is fine with that number rising. Some of them want the U.S. to completely open its borders to the rest of the world. But what would the effect be if we did that? Who is coming here? What are they like? And where is all of this going?

For a look at these (ph) numbers, we are joined by Steven Camarota, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies. He joins us tonight. Steven, just the first obvious observation, people, when I was a kid, used to care about overpopulation. I guess nobody does anymore.

STEVEN CAMAROTA, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Yes. That's a - that's a fair question. The latest Census Bureau numbers indicate that immigration by 2060 will add 75 million people to the U.S. population. So, you'd think people concerned about the environment or traffic, pollution, congestion, sprawl would - would think about that but there's no--

CARLSON: Well but those are real concerns--

CAMAROTA: --discussion (ph).

CARLSON: --which, I will admit, as a kid--

CAMAROTA: Yes.

CARLSON: --I mocked (ph) Liberals for having. But as I got older, I realized--

CAMAROTA: They do (ph)--

CARLSON: --you don't want to live in crowded place--

CAMAROTA: --yes.

CARLSON: --everyone's unhappy. It's horrible--

CAMAROTA: Right.

CARLSON: --and it's dirty. So, does anyone on the Left still say that?

CAMAROTA: There are a few progressives out there, you may know the organization, NumbersUSA, they have a lot of progressive support, and they tend to focus a lot on the population growth.

But most mainstream people on the Left don't touch it with a 10-foot pole because it's all - in the United States, about 95 percent of population growth, long-term, is new immigrants and the children they have. And so, they don't want to touch the issue anymore (ph).

CARLSON: Wait. Wait. What percentage of population?

CAMAROTA: It's about 95 percent. Between now and 2060, about 95 percent of the increase in the U.S. population will come from future immigrants and the children and grandchildren they'll have.

CARLSON: So, that's almost a complete turnover in population, basically?

CAMAROTA: No. That's population growth. That's about 75 million people.

CARLSON: OK.

CAMAROTA: So, most of all the increase is coming from immigration, so from about 328 to 404 is about where we're headed, something like that.

CARLSON: So, the language numbers are really interesting to me. One in five--

CAMAROTA: Yes.

CARLSON: --people living in this country does not speak English at home. Has it ever been that high?

CAMAROTA: It's hard to say. But it may have been that high in the past. What's even more interesting or perhaps more troubling is how concentrated it is.

So, there are all kinds of areas where the Census Bureau divides the country into various areas, where 95 percent of the people or 85 percent of the people and 95 percent and 85 percent of the people in schools, kids in schools, speak a foreign language at home. That's what's truly extraordinary. One wonders how assimilation can work with that level of immigration and foreign language concentration.

CARLSON: So what - what are, broadly speaking, the education levels of the immigrants who are coming here?

CAMAROTA: It varies enormously.

CARLSON: Of course, of course it does--

CAMAROTA: It does (ph). So, you know, you're looking at a situation where 80 percent plus of immigrants from India come with a college degree or more and, then for, say, immigrants from Central America, it's less than 10 percent come with a college degree. And the same thing for immigrants--

CARLSON: So, how does that break down? So what percentage of our immigrants, are coming with no education versus those coming with high degrees of education?

CAMAROTA: Yes. Right now, somewhat over a fourth of all immigrants have less than a high school education when they come. A little over a fourth also have no more than a high school education. So, a high school education or less is a little over half and then a little less than half is some college or even college and more, so that's the very rough breakdown.

CARLSON: So, the majority have high school education or less?

CAMAROTA: Or less, right, so, no education beyond high school. And we know from a lot of research that their welfare use and poverty is quite high.

CARLSON: Of course, across the board. Steven Camarota, thank you very much.

CAMAROTA: Thanks for having me.

CARLSON: Appreciate it.

Well, you just heard as millions of people, many of them low-skilled, half continue to enter this country, an obvious question arises, what does that mean for our economy for America's working class, which is already having its jobs phased out by automation, but for a lot of other parts of our society?

Oren Cass is a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, Author of the book, The Once and Future Worker: A Vision for the Renewal of Work in America, a thoughtful look at that question, he joins us tonight.

Oren, thanks a lot for coming on.

OREN CASS, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE FOR POLICY RESEARCH SENIOR FELLOW, THE ONCE AND FUTURE WORKER AUTHOR: Thank you for having me, Tucker.

CARLSON: So, there's a debate over what automation is going to do long- term. Everyone seems agreed that it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs that we currently think of as real jobs, they'll be gone. But is there any scenario in the future as we perceive it now where you'd want more than half of all immigrants to have a high school diploma or less?

CASS: I think that's a concern we have to grapple with. If we already feel like we have an imbalance, too many unskilled workers relative to what the economy wants, adding more unskilled workers to that mix pushes us in the wrong direction.

CARLSON: How concerned are you about that?

CASS: I think it's a concern. I think it's - it's one among many. I think there are a lot of things we're doing that really hurt less-skilled workers, the way we approach immigration, the way we approach education.

I mean we don't care about education for less-skilled workers. We say college for all. And if you don't complete college, you just you fell out somewhere along the way, and all of our money goes to the folks who are actually completing college even though they're the ones who need the least help.

CARLSON: So, why wouldn't you, if you were thinking thoughtfully about who to let - if you started with the presumption that some immigration is good, that's where I start anyway, why wouldn't you be thoughtful about letting in more people who already have the education that you think your economy requires?

CASS: I think that's exactly what we should do. And I think, you know, most economists would look at the issue and say, if you want to benefit workers at the bottom, if you want to benefit their wages, pretty much, the models say high-skilled immigration is good for low-skilled workers. More low- skilled immigration, it can't be good for low-skilled workers. You're just adding more competition to the market.

CARLSON: Does any - I've had this debate a 100 times on this show over the past couple of years, and I often hear people say all the studies show that's not true. Bringing in millions more poor people makes us all richer. Is there such a study that shows that?

CASS: I'm not aware of a study that shows that. There are a lot of studies that show that the mix of immigrants we've had over time, which has been low-skilled and high-skilled has it's reflected roughly what's in the population.

CARLSON: Right.

CASS: And so, that's OK. But that's the wrong question to ask. The question to ask is which would be better? Given that we're going to have high- skilled immigration, is it good to also have a lot of low-skilled immigration or is it good to have less low-skilled immigration? And what you would say is the less low-skilled immigration you have, the better things are going to be for the low-skilled workers who are here.

CARLSON: So, I sort of alighted (ph) over the meat of your book, which is what would you, if you could do one thing to help people who are struggling to reap the benefits of our economy, what would it be?

CASS: Well, I think, conceptually, we have to actually value work. And we have to say it's not just about consumption and how much we all get to consume and how cheap stuff is.

CARLSON: Yes.

CASS: We actually have to realize that people having work is what's most important to them. And then--

CARLSON: Well, wait a second, paying everybody off with three grand a month won't be the answer?

CASS: No. It's a disaster. It's a great answer for the folks who are doing really well. The funny thing is the higher up the income ladder you go, the more people say, oh, not everyone needs a job, people we can send the money.

You go down to the bottom end of the ladder, that's where you find the people who say, "No, we don't just want money. We want the jobs," because they understand how critical work is not just to their own satisfaction, their own lives, to their families, to their communities.

And if we don't focus on that, if we just say, oh, we'll grow, we'll grow the pie what they say--

CARLSON: Right.

CASS: --and we'll just - we'll just send everyone a piece, right? You don't have to bake your own pie. We'll just give you a slice. That's not what people want and that's not a model for a good society.

CARLSON: That used to be really obvious.

CASS: It did, until about the middle of the last century. And then, we flipped, and we said, as long as - as long as consumption keeps going up, as long as everyone can have more stuff every year, we're going to call that success. But that's not success.

CARLSON: Brightly-colored crap made in China will make us happy. Did it?

CASS: I - I don't see a lot of that, no.

CARLSON: I don't, either. Oren Cass, really thoughtful. Thank you for that.

CASS: Thanks for having me.

CARLSON: Well Georgia's disputed election has finally ended. But in Florida, Democrats are still fighting to overturn the results. We'll have the very latest from both those races after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Democrat Stacey Abrams (ph) has finally conceded in the Governor's race in Georgia. Abrams had trailed the Republican there, Brian Kemp, by a big margin since Election Night. But she and her team of lawyers fought on.

Just this morning, they were considering a legal challenge that would have sought to order another round of voting on the grounds of alleged voter suppression and fraud. But this afternoon, bowing to reality, apparently, Abrams announced she'd be dropping her legal challenges and that effectively ended the race.

And yet, Abrams refused to actually concede. In fact, in her remarks, which are so Orwellian, you should go on the internet and watch them, the woman who got fewer votes than her opponent said that, we're quoting now, "Democracy failed in Georgia." OK.

Well, the Senate race in Florida is still dragging on though. Hand recounts of some ballots are continuing across the state. But the Democrat in the Senate race, Bill Nelson doesn't like he will win. His path to victory is getting very narrow at this point.

Craig Patrick is Political Editor and Chief Investigator for FOX 13 in Tampa Bay. He's been on (ph) every night this week. We're going to miss the recount because we're going to miss having him on, but he joins us tonight.

Craig, what is going on?

CRAIG PATRICK, FOX13 TAMPA BAY POLITICAL EDITOR AND CHIEF INVESTIGATOR: Well the hand recount is going to continue until Sunday. But we can tell you that Bill Nelson is surely doomed. And he is doomed, in large part, because he had placed his hopes and his trust in Broward County, which as we've seen a time or two, that's kind of like placing your - your trust and hope in Harry Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber.

But the irony here is that Bill Nelson thought that Broward County would be dumber and less effective than it actually was, because there were some 30,000 votes that had flown through the machines, not once, but twice, that did not register a vote, mostly Democrats in Broward County.

So Nelson was saying, "Oh, these machines! Broward, here you go again." But what we found out today is when election workers looked at those ballots by hand they discovered that the scanners didn't register votes because most of the voters, around 98 percent, left that race blank.

Maybe these Democrats didn't vote for Rick Scott because he's a Republican, maybe they didn't vote for Bill Nelson because he's Bill Nelson, who knows? But that's the fact of the matter here.

And with this, it puts Bill Nelson in an impossible position. There is chatter and speculation. Some Democrats say they couldn't see the race on the ballot because it had been tucked in the lower-left and perhaps a poor ballot designed by Broward County.

But even so, that's just tough luck for Nelson. There's - there's history for that too. Remember, Tucker, I know you do, in Palm Beach County when it designed the butterfly ballot in 2000 that that Democrats wound up tricking Democrats and voting for Pat Buchanan. And Democrats will never forgive themselves for that.

CARLSON: I do (ph).

PATRICK: I don't think they will ever forgive themselves for this. But either way, it doesn't matter because once all is said and done, it'll be certified on Tuesday, Rick - Rick Scott is going to Washington and Bill Nelson is going to get the Home version of the game.

CARLSON: Democrats voted for Pat Buchanan. Thank you for reminding me that. That was really a high point in the history of the State of Florida. I - I just - I just love that. Craig, thank you for that, and for all of your updates, this week. They've been great.

PATRICK: Thank you.

CARLSON: President Trump says he's ready to answer the Mueller investigation's questions but is Mueller ready to produce any evidence of collusion with Russia? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Well the President says he's finished writing his answers to questions he received from the Mueller team over at the Independent Counsel investigation. His lawyers say the answers will be turned over very soon.

Meanwhile, more than three dozen sealed indictments have been lodged in federal court here in Washington. Some speculate at least some of these could be from Mueller.

Dan Bongino was a former Secret Service Agent, NRATV contributor, Author of the book, Spygate: The Attempted Sabotage of Donald J. Trump, and he joins us tonight. Dan, thanks a lot for coming on.

DANIEL JOHN BONGINO, FORMER AGENT OF THE UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE, FORMER NYPD OFFICER, NRATV CONTRIBUTOR, SPYGATE AUTHOR: Sure (ph).

CARLSON: So, if in the - at some point, we're going to find out who's going to be indicted? Clearly, people are going to be indicted. And if those indictments are for crimes against the interests of this country, collusion with Russia, you know, treason, I'll applaud those indictments and root for convictions.

But if they're for something much less than that like lying in the course of the investigation that has nothing to do at all with the core crime, I and a lot of other people are going to think that this is really a reckless act. What will it do to the country if Mueller does that, do you think?

BONGINO: Yes. And think about it, Tucker, this has gone on for about 18 months. Think about all the lives that have been ruined.

CARLSON: Yes.

BONGINO: The country's been - its politics have been upended. There's very serious talk from the Left about impeachment over a crime, Tucker, that no one can produce a scintilla of evidence to this day it was even committed.

And let me just applaud you, I agree with you on that. If there ever is evidence that actually surfaces of treasonous acts against the United States government, Republican, Democrat or indifferent, then you deserve--

CARLSON: Exactly.

BONGINO: --to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Tucker, the problem is we live in a constitutional republic. None of that evidence is actually been produced. As a matter of fact, one, collusion isn't even a crime. And I don't say that as some kind of a - a word dance.

I say that because there is evidence of Russian collusion against the Hilary team that produced evidence from Russian sources, and people that showed up in the Trump Tower Meeting with Don Jr. that the Left makes such a stink about, were connected to people connected to the Hillary team. But no, the Left isn't interested in any of that. That's why I bring that up.

CARLSON: It just seems like we've lost sight of the purported goal, which was protecting the country from a foreign power. And no one's even really pretending that this is about anything other than settling your political grudges with the force of a prosecution. That doesn't seem like an American way to go about settling political differences. It seems like a totalitarian way to do it.

BONGINO: No. It's - it absolutely is, and think about it. Let's use the FBI, the senior management's own words. Their case was bed-rocked around this dossier, which was a political document. It's a dossier that the FBI Director, Tucker, called salacious and unverified.

The number two, Andy McCabe, said they wouldn't have a case without the dossier. Their words. These - these aren't mine. Bill Priestap, who was the Head of the Division investigating this case, when asked about verifying the dossier, Tucker, you know what he said? "Oh, it's in its infancy, the verification process."

The lead investigator in the case, Peter Strzok, when asked about the case, he said, "Hey, there could be no there, there."

And here's one more for you. Lisa Page, the lawyer in the case, the FBI lawyer, said to Congressional investigators, this is just months ago, not two years ago when it started. She said, "Hey, it still could be literally nothing." Literally nothing? We've upended the whole country--

CARLSON: I know.

BONGINO: --looking for this infamous Russian collusion and it could be literally nothing? I - I mean this is scary stuff. So, you're not just throwing around the - the tyrannical word lightly. There's actual backbone there.

CARLSON: The last Administration spied on its political enemies using our Intel agencies in violation of the law, and custom, and decency, the rules of politics, I mean it's disgusting. And - and I know everyone thinks it's fine because everyone hates Trump, but that's a really terrible precedent to put in place, I think, anyway.

BONGINO: Tucker, that's not even in dispute. And if you look up a - a CNN--

CARLSON: I know. Oh, I know it's not in dispute--

BONGINO: --of all places article--

CARLSON: --yes.

BONGINO: --April 14th of 2017, we not only spied on it using our - these people on our intelligence community, we used foreign intelligence operatives.

CARLSON: I know.

BONGINO: CNN wrote a piece about it, April 14th, 2017 about British Intel spying on people for the Obama Administration--

CARLSON: Exactly.

BONGINO: --on the Trump team.

CARLSON: If the George W. Bush Administration had done that to Obama--

BONGINO: Ah, forget it.

CARLSON: --as God watches, I would have - not have defended that. Dan, thank you very much.

BONGINO: Yes, me too. Yes, sir.

CARLSON: Great to see you.

Well the wildfires in California really are horrible. They're the deadliest in the state's history. Is the government losing its ability to handle natural disasters? That's one lesson, perhaps, of all this. Dave Rubin joins us after the break to discuss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Well it's the tale of leaders failing the people they're supposed to serve. The Camp Fire in Northern California is now the deadliest wildfire in California's history. More than 60 people have been confirmed dead. More than 600, amazingly, are still missing. Firefighters say it will take weeks to contain the blaze.

Meanwhile, across the country, in New York, a surprise snowstorm yesterday completely paralyzed the country's largest city. Thousands lost power that the mass system - transit system broke down. People spent the night in their cars. Mayor Bill de Blasio was left at a total loss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: I'm frustrated too. I'm frustrated as a New Yorker who was stuck in traffic like so many other people were.

In truth, this was a kind of perfect storm. It emerged bigger and later than anyone expected. Obviously affected the whole Tri-state area in a very severe way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: OK (ph). But it was still a snowstorm. Those happen every single year. And so, it raises the question, are American leaders still able to handle the basics of governing?

Dave Rubin, host of The Rubin Report on YouTube, he joins us now. Dave, thanks a lot for coming on.

So, I watch the fire in California, which, you know, no single person is responsible for, the snowstorm yesterday in New York, same thing, and then, the voting debacles in Broward County, and I'm thinking keeping the roads clear, the fires quenched, the votes counted, these are the core functions of government, and they can't do them, so what should I infer from that?

DAVID JOSHUA RUBIN, CREATOR AND HOST, THE RUBIN REPORT: Well we seem to have a lot of things that seem to be crumbling at the same time. I - I thought I would just quickly tell you something that's sort of personal here.

You know, you were on my show a couple weeks ago. And I had a good friend, who's a public person, a verified Twitter personality and a - and a public person apologize to me yesterday. He said that he couldn't share my interview with you because you're so controversial, it wouldn't - it would upset his friends and family and things like that.

I relate this to all of this because it seems that just our ability to talk about anything, whether it's how to deal with fires and how to deal with snow or how to talk--

CARLSON: Yes.

RUBIN: --about politics or everything else, really does seem to be crumbling. I mean look, you know me. I am - I'm a pretty limited government guy. I don't think the government has a lot of things that it should do and it gets its hands in all sorts of things--

CARLSON: Exactly.

RUBIN: --that it shouldn't get its hands in. But what the government should be able to do, and I say this as someone that lived in New York City most of my adult life, is the government should be able to handle a snowstorm even if it's a bit of a surprise snowstorm when it's, you know, six or eight inches, of course, they should be able to deal with that.

That being said, Mother Nature is going to do things all the time--

CARLSON: Right.

RUBIN: --that we cannot fully prepare for. There are - I mean this is - there - there are things that are out of humans' control. And I think part of the problem is that we think that we can control everything.

And we think that if only the government is funded a certain way or designed a certain way or acts a certain way that we can remove all acts of God or control all acts of God, I guess is a better way to say it, and we simply can't.

And then, of course, the answer for - for most of the people on the Left and the progressives or certainly guys like Bill de Blasio, it's like well then we just need more money and more money and more money, and it's not what you need - it's not more money that you need. It's more preparation. It's more understanding that some--

CARLSON: Yes.

RUBIN: --strange things are going to happen every now and again, and there might be a snowstorm that you didn't expect but your team has to be ready. You're - you're in charge. And you're the guy that's got to make sure that it's ready. And - and don't sit there and be surprised, and woe is (ph) me, I got stuck in traffic just like everybody else.

CARLSON: But you create, I think every person does, a hierarchy of responsibilities. Not all - not all the things you want to do are equal and important. So, before you curb carbon emissions and raise the self-esteem of school kids, shouldn't you make sure the roads aren't crumbling and they're plowed?

And it just seems like maybe these guys want a global reach and they're - they're forgetting their basic duties, which are like very ordinary, plow the roads, put out the fires.

RUBIN: Yes. I mean there's basic things that government needs to do. Put out the fires, plow the roads, make sure that we're safe, you know, make sure that--

CARLSON: Right.

RUBIN: --people aren't being mugged in the street and that sort of thing. You know, the California fires is a little bit different than a random snowstorm in New York. The California fires--

CARLSON: It is.

RUBIN: --I mean this thing was - this thing was absolutely massive. It was statewide. It's still going on, so it's almost a little uncomfortable to talk about as--

CARLSON: It is.

RUBIN: --I think it's (ph) around 600 people that are missing at the moment. But, you know, I've lived in L.A., it'll - just coming up on - on six years.

And if I tell you that in Los Angeles, in six years, I - I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we've had maybe 30 days of rain in about six years. You know, you get little drizzle here and there. But I don't even remember the last time it rained here.

Now, if you want to talk about why that is and does that have anything to do with climate change and whether that's--

CARLSON: Right.

RUBIN: --manmade etcetera, etcetera, that's a healthy conversation to have. But the idea that we can just manage and control all of this and that we always know exactly why it happened and that everyone--

CARLSON: Yes.

RUBIN: --who's not in charge suddenly knows that they would be in charge and - and keep more people safe, it's that sort of armchair quarterbacking that I think just kind of makes--

CARLSON: Right (ph).

RUBIN: --everybody go, "Ah, you know what, politics is - is just pointless." So we need leaders that--

CARLSON: Well that is totally true.

RUBIN: --that are a little more nuanced, a little - and a little brighter and a little more willing to go, it's not just about money all the time. It's about how do--

CARLSON: Well exactly.

RUBIN: --we really understand these issues.

CARLSON: And maybe there's a - there's a limit to human wisdom, worth remembering. Dave Rubin, thank you.

RUBIN: There absolutely is.

CARLSON: There certainly is. I bump up against it every day in my own life. Great to see you.

RUBIN: I hear you. Good to see you, Tucker.

CARLSON: President Trump has endorsed a Congressional effort to overhaul the country's prison system. The First Step Act would reduce criminal penalties, expand early release for convicted felons, and increase funding for anti-recidivism efforts. This bill is being supported by a wide coalition, Jared Kushner, the ACLU, the Fraternal Order of Police. What to think of this?

We call one of the people we trust most on this question, Bernie Kerik. He's a former New York Police Commissioner, also the book - Author of the book, From Jailer to Jailed: My Journey from Correction and Police Commissioner to Inmate, so he has seen both sides, and he joins us tonight. Bernie Kerik, thanks a lot for coming on.

BERNARD BAILEY KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: So, address the concerns of people like me who think that there're probably a lot of people who go to prison for longer than they need to go, and it - it doesn't help any of us when that happens, but are also worried about opening the gates and putting a lot of dangerous people back on the street.

KERIK: Well I think there's two things. Bad people that do bad things, they belong in prison, some need to be there longer than most, or longer than many, and the system deals with that.

But what you can't do, Tucker, is you can't put people in prison and expect them to be there, they'll learn how to steal, cheat, lie, manipulate, con, gamble, and fight, and then don't do anything for them, don't give them any programs, don't give them any work ethic, discipline, life skills, then send them back home and expect, as some Members of Congress do, that they're going to be better people because at the end of the day, you know, we have Congressmen now sitting around Washington in a circle jerk, basically saying why is the recidivism rate going up?

Well the recidivism rate's going up because you're not doing anything for the people in the system. This incentivizes good behavior. It gives them programs they need to be better citizens when they go out on the street.

And it reduces the recidivism because they don't have to revert to crime and go back, you know. And - and not to mention, you have 2.5 million kids in the country right now without fathers, without parents.

CARLSON: Yes. That's right.

KERIK: You know, that's another thing. The bill also brings parents and - and their kids closer together with the 500-mile rule that the bill is the best thing that's happened in criminal justice in probably two decades.

And you have a couple Senators out there that are opposing it. I challenge them to debate me or walk through a federal prison with me, and see what's in the system for yourself instead of listening to a staff member.

And I - and I'd really urge them. And - and I'd urge everybody watching, if you've been in the system or know somebody in the system and know what they've been through, call your Senators and tell them, "Get this thing done," because Mitch McConnell has the votes.

He has the votes. He said two weeks ago, if I have the votes after the election, we're going to do this and get it to the President. He has the votes. Now he's saying, "Well we may delay it till next year."

I'm here to predict, if they delay it till next year, it'll never happen. They did this in '16. They were going to delay it till next year, it never happened. He has the votes now.

To not do this now with the votes is an intentional attempt to embarrass the President, where (ph) it's some self-serving declaration by Mitch McConnell and the couple of people that is opposing it. I think it has to be done. We've never worked this hard to do it.

I've been in Washington D.C. briefing, testifying, and speaking since 2013. You have Newt Gingrich, Van Jones, Lindsey Graham--

CARLSON: Yes.

KERIK: --Cory Booker, everybody under the Sun is trying to get this done.

CARLSON: Interesting.

KERIK: They got to do it now. Mitch McConnell has to do it now.

CARLSON: Well you're one of the - there's so much noise about this. I just I wanted to talk to someone I trust on this subject. Bernie Kerik, thanks very much, great to see you tonight.

KERIK: Thanks, Tucker.

Well, a Christian woman in Pakistan needs to leave that country immediately or she's likely to be killed. One country's reaction to her plea says a lot about where the Modern West is heading at high speed. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Here's a name you may have heard recently. If you haven't, you should. Asia Bibi. Bibi is a Christian, a mother of five. She's a farm worker from Pakistan. Her saga began nine years ago when she went to get a drink of water and quarreled with several Muslim women who objected to drinking from the same cup as a Christian.

A mob leader descended on Bibi. They insulted her and then they accused her of insulting the Prophet Mohammed. They assaulted her. Afterward, she was arrested. She was convicted of blasphemy. She was sentenced to death.

Two weeks ago, Bibi got a break. The Pakistani Supreme Court decided there was not enough evidence that she had actually blasphemed anyone, so the Court vacated her conviction. But her ordeal is not over.

Islamists in Pakistan have staged massive riots demanding that she be executed. One cleric put a bounty on her head. A lawyer who defended Bibi has fled the country but Bibi herself has been forbidden to leave.

Her family has pleaded for asylum in the West. If their pleas are not answered, obviously, Bibi may be killed. Cases like this are why the West created asylum laws in the first place.

But the United Kingdom is taking a pass, so far. The U.K. has refused to shelter Bibi despite the fact it has accepted countless other immigrants from that region or, more precisely, because it has accepted those immigrants.

According to news accounts, the British government believes that accepting Asia Bibi would cause, quote, security concerns and unrest among certain sections of the community. Ponder that for a second.

The United Kingdom gave us the rights that Americans take for granted, the core rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, all of those freedoms are now dying in Britain. In their place remains fear, a fear of offending the very people who have made it impossible to sustain those ancient freedoms.

Well, not surprisingly, CNN has found a way to use this tragedy to attack the White House, somehow. A piece on CNN's website warns, quote, Trump, take notice. If you court religious extremists, you're in danger of letting mobs weaken democracy.

Right. But there's another lesson to be learned here, a lesson that Trump has accepted and CNN has not. The kind of religious extremists willing to behead you for apostasy should not be allowed into your country.

When we make room for him or people like him, we very soon run out of room for the values that made us proud to live here in the first place. That story is not yet over, by the way. It's developing, and we plan to follow it, and bring you updates, as we get them.

But first, a weekend, which I hope all of us can enjoy. We'll be back Monday night 8 P.M., the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink. We hope to see you there.

By the way, Mike Huckabee, up next, in for Sean. He'll be interviewing the White House Press Secretary whom he knows well. It's going to be a great show. Have a great weekend.

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