'Tucker Carlson Tonight' on Ghislaine Maxwell verdict, Omicron 'insanity'

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This is a rush transcript of "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on December 29, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

WILL CAIN, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. I'm Will Cain, in for Tucker.

We have some breaking news tonight. A verdict has been reached in the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell.

Maxwell has been found guilty on five counts for her role in sexually trafficking minors for her lover and accomplice, Jeffrey Epstein. She faces a maximum of 65 years in prison.

Jonathan Turley is a legal scholar, and he joins us immediately with his reaction.

Jonathan, great to see you this evening. Let's start with this.


CAIN: Was justice served?

TURLEY: It was. I think the jury got this right.

You know, from the outset, the defense was rather implausible. You know, this was a woman who was arranging the transport of young girls, including underage girls to Epstein's house. Also, there were flights to his island.

It's hard to imagine that anything was involved other than sex trafficking or the abuse of these girls. There was no explanation really offered by the defense as to why she was effectively harvesting girls from playgrounds and other locations.

So, I think they got it right. You know, the fact is that she didn't take the stand because I don't think she had anything to say when confronted with these facts.

So, she is now looking at a maximum of 65 years. Will, we're probably more towards the middle of that in terms of the guidelines. You know, if you do a quick back of the envelope calculation, you're probably around 12 or 15 years for a first offender, but she has aggravators because obviously, this involved underage girls and their abuse.

CAIN: So then the question becomes what happens next? You had a wonderful analogy on your Twitter feed where you said, this is like prosecuting the getaway driver in a bank robbery, but letting the bank robbers get away.

In other words, if she was trafficking young women, she was trafficking them to someone. And the question becomes, will she name names, Jonathan?

TURLEY: Yes, that's right. I mean, that's what I think the-disconnect for a lot of people will be in this case.

You know, we have a long list of famous people that were on the Lolita Express, that were in Epstein's homes, and those people were not prosecuted. And from the very beginning, the Department of Justice seemed eager to scuttle any serious investigation.

They gave Epstein an absolutely horrendously abusive plea deal where he got very little time and it effectively marginalized all these victims, and even today with the Southern District of New York saying that this is such a horrendous crime, they seem to be leaving out that part of well, yes, it was a crime of trafficking to who?

I mean, yes, there was Epstein, but there were other men involved. And so we don't know if she can name names, if she has evidence to give. But if she did, this would be the time to give them up because she needs a cooperation credit.

CAIN: Really quickly, Jonathan, everything about this trial and everything about Jeffrey Epstein's entire case has been at the very least abnormal and possibly conspiratorial. So maybe the question isn't will Ghislaine Maxwell name names, but will anybody ask her to, Jonathan? Will she be offered any type of plea to name names?

TURLEY: Yes, that's the weird thing, Will. You're absolutely right, is that for years we have had a striking disinterest in pursuing the people who were receiving these so-called benefits from Epstein and from Maxwell.

They're out there, and the question is, will anyone be asking who they are? What they did? And what evidence she might have?

CAIN: All right, Jonathan Turley, thank you for joining us immediately after this verdict and talking on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

All right, during Ghislaine Maxwell's trial, we got an inside look into Jeffrey Epstein's Manhattan mansion. Photographs taken by Federal investigators, which you can now see on your screen show Epstein had several boxes of hard drives that were oddly covered in evidence tape.

Investigators also took photos of numerous black binders and CDs, which contained additional evidence and in some cases allegedly child pornography.

The Federal Judge in the case ruled some of the labels on these binders were quote, "identifying information for third parties." So they were redacted. Investigators also found this completely bizarre painting on your screen now of Bill Clinton in a blue dress.

So, who should be most worried tonight? Is it Bill Clinton? Is it Prince Andrew?

Nancy Grace is the host of "Crime Stories" on FOX Nation, and she joins us now.

Nancy, thank you for jumping on with us. Who do you think sleeps uneasily tonight?

NANCY GRACE, FOX NATION HOST, "CRIME STORIES": Well, that's obvious to me. The person that is sleeping the least tonight is Ghislaine Maxwell because she is headed to a Federal Pen. Which one? I don't know. Her sentencing is coming up, and it's not been scheduled, but she's looking at 65 years behind bars.

So let me just take one moment and bask in the moment of justice finally handed down, long delayed. Now, will Ghislaine Maxwell sing for her supper? Will she name names? Possibly.

But remember, even with her naming names, that case has to be proven with victims that will come forward. And if you want to name a President, an ex- President, a wealthy individual, if you want to name Leon Black or whoever, that's got to be corroborated in court. Now, that will be the trick.

Will Ghislaine Maxwell rat people out? Very likely. Although she was pretty stoic in the courtroom today, one of her lawyers broke down in tears in front of God and everybody, but Maxwell stayed cool. One last look back at her family and she walked out of the courtroom.

I don't know if she's going to crack.

CAIN: So, on our screen right now is a picture of Chelsea Clinton's wedding. You can see Bill Clinton walking her down the aisle, highlighted in the background there is Ghislaine Maxwell at that wedding. There is also pictures on your screen of Bill Clinton at various times flashing up receiving a massage.

You know, it's true, as you said, Nancy, it is just as tonight that Ghislaine Maxwell sleeps uneasily behind bars. But I think everybody watching is concerned that justice stops here, which would be an injustice because clearly, she was trafficking these young women to other people, to individuals, and you would have to suspect beyond Jeffrey Epstein.

The prosecution has shown very little interest. In fact, they've discouraged any names coming out in his trial, quote-unquote, "third parties."

And so, I have to wonder with everything found in his apartment -- CDs, binders -- Nancy, will we get those names -- beyond whether or not they will be corroborated, will somebody ask, Nancy? Will we pursue that next step in justice?

GRACE: I believe with all the heat on Federal prosecutors right now that they will go forward, that they will explore the possibilities within all of those binders. It's hard to keep a secret like that. There were detectives, there were investigators. There were crime scene techs everywhere. They saw all of that.

I find it very difficult to believe that they would keep it all under their hat for what? Propriety? That's not going to happen if in fact, the evidence to which you are referring exists.

CAIN: Right. And in speaking of that evidence, Nancy, what do you make of what was catalogued inside of Jeffrey Epstein's apartment?

GRACE: Well, if they had anything to do with these particular victims, the four women that came forward very, very bravely, it wouldn't have been brought out at trial. If it's got to do with other alleged victims, they've got to be hunted down, tracked down, and coerced to testify -- let me say encouraged to move forward with a lot stacked against them and that's going to be a very daunting task.

But I believe, with so many people at the crime scene, it's very possible names will be named.

CAIN: It will be an injustice if this is the end of the story and not the beginning of the story.

GRACE: Yes, it will. If there are other perpetrators, no matter how prestigious they may be, no matter how wealthy they may be, if they are not sought out and prosecuted, that is an injustice.

Lady Justice wears the blindfold for a reason. She is not to care about your wealth or your education or your status. That's why she is depicted the way she is and it is an injustice if that investigation is not completed.

CAIN: Nancy Grace, thank you.

Jeffrey Epstein's victims may finally get some justice when Ghislaine Maxwell get sentenced, but they never really got justice with Epstein himself. He was found dead in jail while awaiting his own trial and it was ruled a suicide.

But one person who never believed that was Michael Baden. He is the former Chief Medical Examiner of New York City and says that Epstein's autopsy points to homicide, and he joins us now.

Mr. Baden, thank you so much for joining us tonight. You made that proclamation some time ago that this was not suicide in the case of Jeffrey Epstein, but it was homicide. Do you still stand by that that judgment you made?

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK CONTRIBUTOR: Will, yes. I was there at the autopsy and so findings and they were crush injuries to the neck -- three fractures in the neck, which is extremely unusual in a suicidal hanging.

Usually, there aren't any fractures in a suicidal hanging, and this is more typical of a homicidal strangulation type injury. The ligature on the floor, made from the sheet didn't match the ligature burrow in the neck.

The guards that slept, and didn't look at his cell for eight hours, they are supposed to look at least every 30 minutes and refused to say when they finally went there what his body was positioned in, were his feet on the ground? Was he on his knees? Was he on his abdomen? None of that came out from their statements. They refused to say anything.

And the F.B.I., which was investigating the case because it was a Federal jail, therefore, the New York City Police were not involved in the investigation, but the F.B.I. investigated and they haven't released anything, including why the videos of the cell and of the tier weren't working. They have the videos, I've looked at them. They haven't said whether they were manipulated.

So I think as Professor Turley said, there's a lot more to his death than has been released so far.

CAIN: No doubt. Video suddenly doesn't work, guards suddenly asleep. On our screen right now is a graphic of the hyoid bone in the throat.


CAIN: Will you help me understand? Now, you said there's a difference. You said there's a difference between the marks on a body who has been strangled versus the marks on a body that had died from a suicidal hanging. How do those two markings differ in an autopsy?

BADEN: The internal investigation, when -- the head weighs about 10 pounds, so when somebody hangs, the free hanging, there's -- the body weight less 10 pounds, say a 200-pound person would weigh 190 pounds pressure on the neck. That's not enough to cause a fracture of the hyoid bone, usually, almost always.

And you need an additional pressure, more than the body weight pressure to break the hyoid bone and the two bones underneath -- the thyroid -- Adam's apple -- the thyroid cartilage were also fractured and that is extremely unusual for a suicide.

So that points in that direction. It has to be investigated.

It was called a suicide. The doctor who did the autopsy, I was there. A doctor does the autopsy, says it is undetermined. She is overruled two or three days later by the Chief Medical Examiner who calls it a suicide before all of this information has been gotten together.

So I think there may have been a premature rush to judgment to call it a suicide for whatever the reason, because usually these things take weeks before they worked out at the earliest.

So the issue I had referred to earlier in the law is, how come certain things haven't been done legally? Well, how come certain things haven't been done in investigating the death of Epstein?

CAIN: Well, if your judgment is correct, that Epstein's death was not a suicide, but that it was a homicide, there is more than one reason that Glenn Maxwell should sleep uneasy in prison tonight.

Dr. Michael Baden, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

BADEN: Thank you.

CAIN: On your screen, by the way, as we say goodbye to Dr. Michael Baden, you see an image of Jeffrey Epstein's neck and there is some illustration of some of what he is describing there that appears suspicious in the ruling of a suicide.

Also, this tonight, instead of helping us in the pandemic, the mild omicron variant is breaking people's brains. The left's COVID cult is more unhinged than ever and that's straight ahead.


CAIN: Well, the omicron variant has largely turned out to be a bust. It hasn't turned into anything Anthony Fauci predicted, and it hasn't been the winter of death and destruction that Joe Biden predicted -- far from it. The omicron variant is mild.

So just when you thought America could finally turn the corner on this pandemic, a new wave is sweeping across the land -- insanity.

The unhinged meltdown on a Delta Air Lines flight by a former Baywatch actress, Patricia Cornwall wasn't a reminder of how far we have come during the pandemic. No, no. It was a sign of what is to come if the American people tolerate this insanity.

Fear and neurotic paranoia seem more rampant than ever even more so than the early days of 2020. And strangely, it comes from those who would ironically say they are the most protected, the thrice vaccinated, the double masked person, who also wears a face shield. The deranged lady who wears a mask outside by herself.

The vaccine hasn't given these people their freedom, neither has omicron. They've convinced themselves for months that mask wearing and vaccines would protect them from COVID. And now confronted with the reality that it will not, they seem even more willing than ever to double down on their crazy behaviors.

Some people even broadcast their insanity on national television.


NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Jason, you see how difficult this is for this administration. I mean, I'm a Fauci groupie. I'm a thrice vaccinated, mask adherent. I buy KN95 mask by the, you know, caseload, they're in every pocket. I wear them everywhere except when I sit down, and I am certain that this is not a variant I can outrun.


CAIN: By the caseload. They're in every pocket. Hypochondriacs are apparently common in the media.

Look at this, a CNN reporter, Chris Cillizza bragged on Twitter that he had bought COVID tests as a post-Christmas gift for himself. It appears he is literally hoarding dozens of coronavirus test during the worst testing shortage of the year.

Oprah Winfrey, by the way shamed her friend, Gayle King on Facebook for failing to adhere to her extreme COVID rules that she calls quote, "the policy."

It's not enough to be triple vaccinated for the Queen's policy, you must test and quarantine before seeing Oprah as well. And so because King did not do that, Oprah proclaimed that King was not invited to her Christmas celebration -- some friend.

Our elected officials, meanwhile, have done nothing to curb this insanity. In fact, they fanned the flames. Here's a sad image of the President of the United States and his wife, Jill Biden, walking alone on Rehoboth Beach, Delaware with masks on. It's clear, they are only obeying their handlers. And according to Joe Biden, he is obeying his medical team, too.

Just after Joe Biden told us there was no Federal solution to ending the pandemic, he changed his mind to tell us that if his medical team told him to recommend a vaccine mandate for domestic air travel, he would obey his medical team.


QUESTION: Mr. President, when might you make a decision on domestic travel vaccine requirements?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I get a recommendation from the medical team.


CAIN: Thanks, guys. Now, of course, the leader of Joe Biden's medical team is his holiness, Anthony Fauci. Fauci realizes he has got approximately 48 hours left to cancel New Year's celebrations. He is doing everything he can, everything in his power to make sure that happens.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If your plans are to go to a 40 to 50 person New Year's Eve party with all the bells and whistles and everybody hugging and kissing and wishing each other a Happy New Year, I would strongly recommend that this year we do not do that.


CAIN: At the center of all of this is the need for liberals to project their own virtue. As author, Fred deBoer wrote on "Substack," being fearful, being the most fearful of COVID, well, it's a virtue signal. Sharing irrational COVID fears is like putting a quote, "Black Lives Matter" sign in their window.

The reason it'll never end is because they see the pandemic like a war. It gives them meaning to their empty lives. They truly believe wearing a mask will save someone else's life. Well, them getting the vaccine is like saving their fellow soldier from dying in the trenches. In fact, they're already telling us that.

Just today, a "Washington Post' columnist named James Hohmann endorsed vaccine mandates for air travel because, quote, "We're in a global war."

After comparing the coronavirus to World War II, Hohmann also wrote that, quote, "We need to compel all Americans to join the war effort." But thankfully, not everyone is going along with this insanity. It's worth pointing out the brave Americans like Gianna Mullane who are standing up with some sanity.

Mullane is a police officer in Boston who is now being required to get the vaccine. But here's the deal, she is 30 weeks pregnant and concerned about the vaccine's potential effect on her unborn child. Very reasonable concern.

Mullane recently challenged Boston Mayor Michelle Wu with the following.


GIANNA MULLANE, BOSTON POLICE OFFICER: Do you understand what it's like losing a child and having to go through fertility treatments?

We are asking you, Mayor Wu, to understand where we're coming from. We care about our families.

Do you, right now, can put your feet, your person, everything that your research behind this vaccine right now and sign a document for us saying that you personally and the city will take full responsibility if something was to happen to us as mothers and our unborn children? Would you do that right now for all of us?

I deliver 10 weeks -- in 10 weeks. I'm supposed to have this vaccine, two doses of it a month before I deliver.


CAIN: Gianna Mullane is the author you saw in that video and she joins us now.

Gianna, I, first of all, appreciate you jumping on the show tonight. Did you get an answer to that question? Did you get a -- did you get the guarantee, the accountability you sought there in that question to the Mayor?

MULLANE: No, we did not. We got a lot of deflecting, and it's been almost a week, and we still haven't had a response from Mayor Wu.

CAIN: You know, it's a very reasonable concern. Your vaccine hesitancy is tied directly to your pregnancy, your approximately, I take it, five months pregnant, and from the video, I understand you've had complications in the past.

It's a very rational and reasonable concern, and your response from the city has been what?

MULLANE: Crickets at this point. I went through fertility treatment. I got pregnant six years ago with triplets. So being pregnant right now is almost a bit of a miracle. Thinking that, you know, I would never have any more children. And I think just like all Americans right now, we're all scared and nervous, and especially having an experimental vaccine being pushed on us in order to keep our livelihood.

CAIN: What are your doctors telling you about the vaccine in your stage of pregnancy?

MULLANE: So my doctor asked me, you know, my first appointment if I was interested in it, I told her no and I gave her my reasons why. And they asked again, I think it was my 20-week appointment, and that was it. They've respected my decisions.

And, you know, I make my -- we make our own medical decisions. You know, I refused a COVID vaccine, but I got a flu shot. I got the TDEP vaccine. I'm not one of those anti-vax people. But I'm going to do what I need to do to protect my unborn child, and I think a lot of people feel that way right now that they're trying to control their own health.

CAIN: And so what happens next? The city's vaccine mandate goes into effect, I believe in just a few weeks. Your job is on the line. So what happens next?

MULLANE: Yes, so Mayor Wu violated our collective bargaining agreement. I mean, Boston is a big union town. So, a lot of the city union sat with the previous administration and we came up with these MOAs and, you know, we had either vaccinate or weekly testing, and everyone was in compliance with either or, and then, you know, being a Democratic Mayor, we never expected Mayor Wu to just completely trash those agreements.

So we were kind of like left, you know, in the dust. Our unions are doing whatever they're doing right now, but they are certainly not vocal about it. So a group of City Boston employees started Boston First Responders United, and it has become like this umbrella that has encapsulated our city employees that feel this way and want to be in control of their own health.

So we are working together to maybe fight this and show them that, you know, we are still humans, like all Americans, and we want to be in control of what decisions and what goes into our bodies, especially where it's an experimental vaccine.

CAIN: Well, Gianna, bringing your child into this world is a celebratory moment. It's a blessing and you have our celebration with you, also our prayers that your child is born healthy, and we hope that you get to keep your job, which is an odd thing to ever tell an American.

But we hope that you get to keep your job because of your health choices, while you bring a child into this world, Gianna. Best of luck. Thank you for joining us tonight.

MULLANE: Thank you very much. Thank you.

CAIN: The Biden administration, which claims it is just trying to save lives recently announced it will pause shipments of life-saving monoclonal antibody treatments from two companies because they are not effective according to the Biden administration in fighting omicron.

Meanwhile, they push vaccines that don't protect you from getting COVID. Joseph Ladapo is the Surgeon General of Florida. He just wrote a letter to the Biden administration asking them to reverse their decision, and he joins us now.

Mr. Surgeon General, thank you for joining us tonight. Why? Why has the State of Florida been deprived for the monoclonal antibody therapeutic treatments?

DR. JOSEPH LADAPO, SURGEON GENERAL OF FLORIDA: You know, that's a great question and I don't know the answer to it. What I do know is that it was a terrible decision. I mean, it's actually a completely ridiculous decision.

You have a situation right now around the country where you're in the middle of a surge, and unfortunately, there's a lot of fear and panic out in the community again, and it's not all omicron, so there is still a lot of delta variants out there, and you take away an effective treatment for delta variant.

So it completely baffles me. It absolutely makes no sense. And it makes me wonder about who's running the agency because someone with a clinical background would never make this decision.

CAIN: What's the demand in Florida for these therapeutics? How many people how many patients are currently waiting for the kind of therapeutics that are being deprived of them from the Federal government?

LADAPO: Well that's another good question. So first, it's important to know that you know as you know, this is a wave that is affecting many parts of the country.

So we have a situation in Florida and other states where the demand for treatment is outpacing the supply. So, that's the bottom line. We have a number of sites throughout the state that were set up by Governor DeSantis's leadership early on in the pandemic, so Floridians fortunately, in this state, they know that, you know, if they test positive, and they have risk factors, they don't just go home, they should come and get treatment. And that's the message that we've shared with Floridians.

So right now, we still have enough supply for the capacity that we do have within our sites, but the demand exceeds that. So that's the situation here.

CAIN: So -- and how effective by the way, just as we count the numbers, in essence, as the demand is outpacing the supply, what you have is patients essentially in a life-saving situation, a life-threatening situation, hoping for therapeutics they are being deprived of them, it is fair to say, this will cost lives, this will cost people their lives -- this decision.

Is that fair in your estimation?

LADAPO: Well, yes, I mean, the bottom line is that if people need a treatment, and actually, you know, there's an even better example than Florida. There's the whole country. So there have been -- there has been evidence for monoclonal antibodies and other treatments that people can take outside of the hospital for COVID for at least a year.

And this includes fluvoxamine. It includes inhaled budesonide. There are randomized clinical trials, good evidence. You know, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are more controversial, but they've been so politicized that it's just hard to see what the science is actually saying.

But these have been available for over a year. And so yes, if you deprive people of treatment, it's the tragedy of this pandemic. If you deprive people of treatment, they're more likely to get severely ill. And that's unfortunately, the model that the leadership in this country at the public health level has stuck to.

CAIN: It seems that every therapeutic that's been pitted in some kind of - -

LADAPO: And so, in Florida -- so we're --

CAIN: Yes, it seems that every therapeutic has been pitted against the vaccine in some type of competitive environment and therefore been deprived to people and as we just discussed, that costs lives.

Joseph Ladapo, thank you for joining us tonight on the show and highlighting this important issue.

LADAPO: Yes, that is absolutely correct. That's absolutely correct.

CAIN: All right. Thank you.

LADAPO: Okay, thank you.

CAIN: All right, uttering the phrase, "Let's go Brandon" makes the left very angry. Now, they're saying anyone who uses it is part of, guess what? Insurrection.

That's next.


CAIN: Aside from fan-girling Tony Fauci on live television, there is nothing much Jeb Bush's former flack loves more than insurrection. It's all she talks about, she can't let it go. That's why with waning interest in the events of January 6th, Nicolle Wallace is identifying a new insurrection, saying, "Let's go Brandon."

This was her reaction to an Oregon man who uttered the phrase on a Christmas Eve call with Joe Biden.


WALLACE: I don't know where to start. Let me tell you why this matters. The asymmetry has always been what advantages the Trump right more than anything else and the asymmetry of saying "F you" to a sitting President on a call in front of your four kids don't look past this.

Don't look at this as a story about giving airtime to a MAGA guy. This is the slow motion insurrection, Jason, in full color.


CAIN: A slow motion insurrection. Victor Davis Hanson is with the Hoover Institution and he joins us live.

I see your smile, Victor. I spoke to you a little over a week ago and we talked about these fads, trends, verbal tics that seem to take over the human mind. Many times, the mind of the left, save our democracy, racial equity, social justice, and now insurrection seems to be the most frequent and recent mental tic earworm.

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Yes, I mean, if saying "Let's go Brandon" is insurrectionary, what would be a CNN contributor holding up the facsimile of Donald Trump's decapitated head? Or what was night after night in Central Park having a look alike Donald Trump as Julius Caesar being stabbed repeatedly to death? Or what was Hillary Clinton saying after the election that the elected President was not legitimate and urging Joe Biden not to concede under any circumstances?

Or for that matter, what was this Obama Pentagon lawyer writing in foreign policy 11 days into the Trump term that we should consider removing Trump either by the 25th Amendment, impeachment, or a military coup? A military coup was on the minds of a lot of retired generals. We had two that wrote letters that Mark Milley should intervene. We had another distinguished Admiral who said that Trump should leave the sooner the better.

So we know what it is really about, Will. We talked about it. That Donald Trump old horse has been beaten to death, so is January 6, and they're afraid of democracy. They're afraid that the people are going to speak. And so, a month ago, we would talking about the theme, democracy is broken in 2022.

There is going to be a coup in 2024, then we have military officers echoing that charge. And now we have the insurrection meme, but it's all a fear of what's going to happen in the midterms.

And if they were rational people, they would get around the table and say, this agenda is not good for the American people. It's not working, we need to reboot. And they can't do that because they're hardcore ideologues.

CAIN: You said something else that I found very fascinating. You said, this is a replacement for actually having a positive agenda, of actually doing something that helps solves the nation's problems. That in place of that, vilifying your political opponent at all times as insurrectionists or as racist, is the last political tool of a failing regime.

Tell me more about that. Because, you know, Victor, 10 years ago, the Obama administration prided itself on having a transformative agenda for America. Now, it's more about transforming your political opponent into the devil.

HANSON: It was, but even Barack Obama realized that when his agenda started to fail, he didn't reboot, but he did something else. He just disappeared, and he allowed the Democrats and Republicans to fight for the next administration on his last year, and he disappeared to the golf course.

And you know what his polls went up because he was just disengaged, and people didn't have to hear his sermons. And Joe Biden is President and he can't do that.

He was pretty good when he was in the basement, and he was not seen or heard very much, but the people around him are incapable, as all you know, as all ideologues and zealots, they are incapable of self-criticism and self-introspection, and they've hijacked the Democratic Party and the Democratic mainstream, such as it is, they're terrified of saying to them, "You have destroyed our party."

You either have got to retire or we're going to be defeated. Do something different on the border, regain deterrence after Afghanistan, stop this crazy inflationary policy. They could say that, but they can't. And so it's either don't Trump on Monday, January 6th on Tuesday are coup, coup, coup and democracy is destroyed on Wednesday.

And you're right, it would be racism or homophobia or sexism the rest of the week and people are sick of it, and they're going to pay a price in the midterms and they know it and they're scared of democracy.

CAIN: Right. Racism on Thursday, and apparently it's insurrection on Friday. Victor Davis Hanson, thank you so much for always putting it into perspective.

HANSON: Thank you.

CAIN: South Africa is reporting lower hospitalizations with the omicron variant. Is there something we can learn with how they've handled it? That's next.


CAIN: Let's be real, all of the data on the omicron variant tells us it's incredibly mild, the most mild COVID variant to date. And a study out of South Africa where omicron emerged found that risk of hospitalization was 80 percent less than other variants.

Dr. Marc Siegel is a FOX News Medical contributor, and he is out with a new op-ed saying, we should follow South Africa's example in how they handled omicron, he joins us now.

Dr. Siegel, always enjoy speaking with you. What should we learn from South Africa?

DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: We should learn, Will, what transparency is like and what science is like. We always hear about science here, but we see politics.

Let me tell you what science is like. They said at the very beginning of the pandemic, this is a ticking time bomb and the first to say that. Then they came out in November and said hey, we got a new variant and it's milder. And as you just said, it is leading to much less hospitalizations, very few.

And I interviewed Dr. Waasila Jassat who is a shining example of what science means? Listen to this, Will.

I talked to her about why it's mild. She said vaccines are helping, prior immunity from other variants is helping. She is flat out saying natural immunity is helping.

She said also, you know what? It's milder on its own. Scientifically, it's milder. They are studying it in all the labs in South Africa while we're busy politicizing. And then I said to her, you were punished. Travel bans, United Kingdom, European Union, United States travel bans -- punished. Would you do it again, Will? Would you do it again?

And I thought she was going to say to me, no way, because the economy is going to get killed here and tourism is going to get killed. She said, we, scientist here in South Africa would do it again tomorrow.

Our job is to warn the world about this variant and then to reassure the world that it's much milder and maybe the ticket out of the pandemic.

We're not shy and we're not going to succumb to politics. I was so blown away by that.

CAIN: Imagine that. Yes. And what a sad state that you were blown away, and I have to sit here and imagine a scientist embracing transparency and truth. That is not what we get for our public health leaders here in the United States.

Dr. Marc Siegel, thank you so much for showing us the lessons we can follow from South Africa.

SIEGEL: Thanks, Will.

CAIN: You bet.

SIEGEL: You bet. Absolutely. Thanks, Will.

CAIN: It's a clucking disaster. Pet chickens adopted during the pandemic, they're now being returned in record numbers. You can see two chickens adopted right there on your screen, and that's straight ahead.


CAIN: Pet chickens became popular during the pandemic. One report claims that demand for pet chickens increased by 260 percent. But now, people are returning them.

Rescue organizations are struggling to take them all in, and this show knows a little bit about pet chickens. We investigated the trend earlier this year.


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT: Someone was told me that chickens are so dumb if you face them in a corner, they can't get out. Is that true?

TIARA SOLEIM, CHICKEN ENTHUSIAST: Whoever made that up, has something against birds and is not sure at all. They know exactly what to do. Sometimes they get stuck in corners, but for the most part they can figure it out.

CARLSON: How many do you -- you're totally winning me over by the way -- I'm just going to be honest about it. How many chickens do you have?

SOLEIM: I have 30.


CAIN: Tiara Soleim is the woman you just saw in that clip. She is a chicken ambassador, and she joins us now with her two chickens on screen, Trish and Karen.

And they're here to tell Americans to stop abandoning chickens.

Tiara, can I just say, I was told you won Tucker over, and I feel like I should say at the outset, you might have to win me over as well. Chickens being abandoned? Why is this a major problem?

SOLEIM: You know, I kind of take offense to people that are getting chickens, planning to raise them, keeping them as pets and then changing their mind and deciding that they just want to put them in a box or surrender them at a shelter.

I don't think that's fair. People don't do that when they get dogs. They keep them till the end and I don't know why chickens should be treated any differently. They're super low maintenance. They're easy to take care of if you have the right setup. So, I'm not sure why people are surrendering their animals to shelters.

CAIN: Well, you know, you said something key there. You said people adopting them as pets and then surrendering them, I tend to think of the chicken as sort of a beast of burden. It's an animal that we have to lay eggs or eventually potentially serve as a meal.

But if you adopt it as a pet, then you should probably keep it as a pet. And yet that's not what's happening.

SOLEIM: Yes, and I don't know if it's because they're chickens, so they treat them differently and they're just like, oh, you know, whatever, they won't mind. They're just birds, they are not going to remember.

But chickens have facial recognition. They're actually a lot more intelligent than people think. And so for them to get them, raise them, have them as pets for eggs or whatever, and then to just kick them to the curb, I don't like it.

CAIN: On the screen while you're talking is a video of you. I believe this is you in the act of rescuing Tiara. I'm sorry, you are Tiara, excuse me, Tiara. In the act of rescuing Trish. Trish, I believe is -- is Trish the golden chicken there? Yes. That's sitting on your table. So that's Trish.


CAIN: Who you picked up on the side of the road?

SOLEIM: Yes, so I was driving down a local highway near my house, and I was with one of my friends and we drive by and I'm like, hold the phone, that's a chicken. And so we pulled over the speed limits like 55 to 60, and I'm like, I don't care.

I literally pulled over in the middle of the road and he got out first and then I got out and we basically just kind of like cornered her in some bushes. And I was like, "Girl, you're coming home with us." Like "I'm not going to leave you here to get run over or eaten."

So now she has lived with me for about three or four years and she's adorable. She's a great addition to my family.

CAIN: How many chickens do you have?

SOLEIM: I think, I have about 30.

CAIN: How many did you say one more time? How many did you say?

SOLEIM: Thirty.

CAIN: Oh wow. Wow.

SOLEIM: I know.

CAIN: You have a chicken coop, right? They don't just roam the house. You have a chicken coop surely.

SOLEIM: Yes, I have a coop that's connected to a stall in my barn, but I mean they come inside every now and then. No shame there.

CAIN: Tiara, last question for you, truly we're having a good time with this segment, but it is true whether or not it was dogs or apparently also chickens, people are abandoning animals they adopted during the pandemic and the future isn't bright for any animal that's abandoned and we appreciate you highlighting the plight of chickens here on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

Thank you so much.

SOLEIM: Thank you.

CAIN: All right, that's about it for us tonight. Tune in each night at eight to the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, and smugness, and groupthink.

Have a great evening.

My buddy, Pete Hegseth is hosting "Hannity" and in two nights, we will be hosting an All-American New Year, together, live from Nashville right here on the FOX News Channel -- Pete. It is all you.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL COHOST, "FOX AND FRIENDS" WEEKEND: Yes, we will, Will, but what if Trish wanted to be free. Who is Trish's advocate?

I mean, free range chickens are a thing. I mean, maybe that was an abduction. I am just saying. I was watching the segment. Trish should have an advocate, too.

CAIN: All of a sudden, I feel like my -- all of a sudden, I feel like my interview was a softball interview and inadequate and I feel like you should have cross examined her about whether or not Trish had a better life by the side of the road before she pulled over.

HEGSETH: I'm just asking. I'm just asking. That was TV gold. I love it, and Will, I can't wait to host New Year's Eve with you and Rachel in Nashville. Let's get to a free state and do it right. It's going to be a lot of fun, brother.

CAIN: It's going to be fun.

HEGSETH: Thank you.

CAIN: All right, bud. I'll see you.

HEGSETH: You've got it.

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