Trump vows to stop caravan from entering US

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Trump vows to stop caravan from entering US

President Trump tells members of the migrant caravan from Central America to turn back now and go home; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 27, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Morgan Ortagus, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld.  That's the guy. Animals are great. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

President Trump not backing down in the battle over how to deal with the caravan, the president saying he'll stop migrants from entering the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We are sending a simple message to the lawless caravans and to the illegal trespassers marching toward our border. It's very simple. Turn back now, go back home. We will not let you in. We're not going to let you in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: President Trump also accusing migrants in the caravan of using children as human shields after border patrol agents fired tear gas on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Why is a parent running up into an area where they know the tear gas is forming and it's going to be formed and they're running up with a child? And in some cases, you know, they're not the parents. These are people, they called them grabbers. They grab a child because they think they're going to have a certain -- they're going to have a certain status by having a child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And counselor to the president, Kellyanne Conway, blasting media coverage of the attempted border breach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The media -- mainstream media only wants you to see the children, the families. They're not telling you that most of the caravan are males traveling by themselves, that, of course, projectiles and rocks were thrown at our brave men and women at the border, and they used nonlethal force in response because they have a right to defend themselves and to make sure that others who are there are not harmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Meanwhile, a potential government shutdown now looming with President Trump reportedly demanding $5 billion to build a border wall.  We'll get to that in a moment. But, Greg, how are we going to wrap this up down there? You did -- I did have a report earlier today on The Daily Briefing, I'm sure you were watching --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: -- that there were two --

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Was Chris Stirewalt on?

PERINO: No he was not. Not today. There were two busloads of teenagers - -

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: -- who decided to go home. They turn around and went back.

GUTFELD: That's smart move. You know, one of the burdens of being a conservative is we're always siding with the constraint law and order perception, which means we'll always be accused of lacking compassion.  There's no way out of it. If you're a conservative or right winger or even a libertarian, you will always be seen as insensitive, and especially in situations like this, you'll be accused of being cruel because they'll have footage of tear gas and pepper spray and it makes everybody look bad. The problem is it's actually the opposite because who warned that this was going to happen? Us. And when we talked about this, we were accused of being exploitive. Exploitative or exploitive?

PERINO: I think --

GUTFELD: Both will work. So -- or this was just a right-wing figment that we were talking about. So, when we talked about this happening and saying it wouldn't end well, the other media laughed at us. And then when it actually happens and it doesn't end well, they blame us. So you can't win and it's actually wrong. I think if the conservatives and the people that are for law and order and constraint that were actually had the best interests for this group of manipulated souls. These are souls who are being manipulated by activists, and it's a persuasive left-wing ploy to do this kind of thing, but it never ends well for the people that are being used.

PERINO: Jesse, I talked to administration official at DHS who said that -- I asked the question, what does success look like to you in a month? And they said an orderly process for asylum claims taken place in Mexico, that they think that that's what they would like to get to and that's their goal.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: It's a good goal. I don't know if it's ever going to happen. Now that I'm a dog owner, Dana, I'm much more compassionate. I want to let the caravan in. I feel like these people deserve a chance, and then I listen to Greg talked and I think, you know what? You can be compassionate and be for law and order.

PERINO: You can be a compassionate conservative.

WATTERS: Did I just say compassionate conservative?

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: I've just walked right into that slogan. The perfect person to articulate that. So, listen, this has to be fixed and it has to be fixed soon because not only do the people on the northern side of the border dislike it, the people in Tijuana hate it.

PERINO: Yeah.

WATTERS: It's a huge crisis. And for some reason the people that are American citizens, the border patrol agents, they're our fellow patriots that are protecting our safety. They're the ones who are being villainized by the left. Yet, the people from Central America throwing rocks at their heads, they're the victims. They're the heroes. And it's completely backwards because this president believes in America first, and the left believes in blame America first. It's an underdog mentality. They're uncomfortable with being the world superpower. So whenever an underdog or a third world country or anybody not as powerful as America has any sort of assault on this country, the immediate thought is, hmm, what did we do to provoke this? Why are we to blame? How can we, you know, accept this assault in a polite way? Because we're so powerful we can just take it on the chin all the time. And that's the wrong way to think about it. And that is -- that mentality has really affected the thought process of many people on the left that are OK with what's going on at the border and I just think it's wrong.

PERINO: Juan, do you think that the Democrats are worried that they're being perceived as being OK with what's going-on on south of the border?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I think that what they worry about is how President Trump is trying to structure this as an invasion, as somehow these are people who constitute a threat to American security in some cases, or they're criminals or gang members. As opposed to the reality which is that they're a desperate bunch of people who are coming and seeking asylum. What we've done is at the moment, we've funneled them all in to one place and then we tell them to wait on the other side and, of course, there are long delays in terms of the processes that we were talking about. And so, then people get frustrated as human beings do, especially when they've been through a long journey, apparently, about a quarter to more with children. And so, the children are out of control.  Everybody is frustrated and anxious. And then --

GUTFELD: Who created this?

WILLIAMS: I think who created this was Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: He didn't start the caravan.

WILLIAMS: No, I didn't say that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All immigrants wait.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, you don't wait like this.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes, you do.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say that previously you have people wait. So what we've had with Trump, I mean, you stop and think about it, he had separation of families at the border --

GUTFELD: Obama did that.

WILLIAMS: No, he didn't.

GUTFELD: Yes, he did.

WILLIAMS: And secondly, you have things like, you know, gosh, go after -- close the border he's now talking about. This is again -- it's absurd.

WATTERS: How did Trump start the caravan?

WILLIAMS: I didn't say he started it --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He said, right now, the only way that he wants people, a federal judge has said he's wrong, but he said the only place you can apply is through existing ports of entry. You can't just come across the border, which has been the practice in the past for people who were seeking asylum.  So then you put people in jeopardy, you create anxiety, and then you say you're bad people. This is outrageous.

PERINO: Let's get Morgan in here because the sheer number of people that are coming over -- I think that has what definitely changed. And DHS has said that they were watching this. So, this is the biggest caravan.  There's another one behind this one and another one you have behind this one. And so, something else needs to happen. It can't just be status quo.

MORGAN ORTAGUS, GUEST CO-HOST: Actually, I think the last time I was on the show, Dana, you brought up a great point.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It's in her great point journal.

PERINO: Yeah, I have a great point journal.

ORTAGUS: We're not looking holistically about where the root of all of this is coming from in Central America. We're looking at all of these countries that are failed states. We need to look at a regional approach to this. And also, when you look at the border, it's not just about immigration or migrants coming in, you know 90 percent of the heroin, the majority of the fentanyl that's getting into this country gets in through the southern border. So, politically, you know, all we're seeing is -- because the media has decided it's politically correct to be on the side of the immigrants so we're seeing images of children and babies which is terrible.

I could also take you to every region of the world. I could take you to Syria. I could take you to Afghanistan. I could take you to the Middle East. I could take you to Africa and show you pictures of women and babies that would break our heart. But the whole world can't come here. So we have to figure out who do we help and why. We can't discount the national security aspect of this of an insecure border with drugs and many illicit things coming across. So, it's a much bigger problem but everyone is just taking political pot shots at each other right now.

WATTERS: I just want to double down on Greg's point because Juan said something that Trump is responsible for what we're seeing right here. A month ago, Donald Trump warned the Central American governments stop this.  We're going to pull away your aid. Please don't let them come. He warned Mexico, don't let them come. And then he said, you know what, if you come here, we're not going to give you asylum. And he said if you tried to cross the border, we're going to detain you, and so we process you and not do catch and release. And he has warned about this. He's said there's going to be violent clashes. He's tried to bolster the southern border.  And now when you have situation with all these warnings have been unheated by these people and by the media, they get there, they throw rocks, they dispersed them with sheer gas which is law enforcement 101 --

GUTFELD: Obama did it 80 times.

WATTERS: Obama did it 80 times, no one said a word. And then Trump is to blame, Juan? Trump has been trying to stop this from the jump.

WILLIAMS: No, I just said when you construct a situation where you force people into an untenable situation --

GUTFELD: But he didn't force them.

WILLIAMS: He did because of the ports of entry argument, which is why they're all, right now, stacked up in Tijuana.

PERINO: Well, or else they could be, you know, just crossing illegally over the border, and then you've got the coyote problem and dying in the desert --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And that would also be Trump's fault.

WATTERS: They choose this border problem.

PERINO: We've got to move on. President Trump is blasting Robert Mueller amidst a major new development in the Russia probe, more on that when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: President Trump unloading on who he's calling conflicted prosecutor Robert Mueller, claiming the special counsel is doing tremendous damage to our criminal justice system. This comes on the heels of new developments in the Russian investigation. First, Paul Manafort's legal team pushing back against the special counsel, saying that he torpedoed his plea deal by repeatedly lying to investigators. Also, Manafort and WikiLeaks are hammering The Guardian over a report the former Trump campaign chair met with Julian Assange, Manafort slamming the story as totally false. And constitutional law professor Alan Dershowitz is warning about a biased and potentially damaging report coming from Mueller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR EMERITUS: The president has to be ready and his team has to be ready because Mueller is not going to produce a neutral report. He's not going to be fair. He's going to produce what he believes is going to be a devastating attack. He's going to put together everything. He's going to use information from Manafort and others without necessarily disclosing that they're liars. And so the president's team has to be ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: All right, Juan, so this report in The Guardian says that Paul Manafort met several times at the Ecuadorian embassy in London with Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks guy. And the people at the place never logged the visits. There was no substantiation of the -- they have cameras all over London. None of the video footage shows him going in. They're saying it's totally false, this repost. What do you think?

WILLIAMS: How do we know? So, as you point out, there's reason to be skeptical. On the other hand, The Guardian says that they have seen, you know, evidence of Manafort flying from Ukraine into -- I think it's through Frankfurt to London. So, I don't know. I mean, that -- they put their credibility on the line. We'll have to judge when we find out more, Jesse.  But what is clear here is that if it was true, is it still -- does it still make a difference because it's early in the process. I think the last time they have him visiting is March of '16, which is before we know exactly about the relationship of the hacking of the Democratic emails, you know, and the like. So, if you have that, then do we really know that there was anything more than just chit-chat? Was it directly related to having Assange release the hacked emails in a way that undermines the Clinton campaign by playing into the whole Russian propaganda thing that said, you know, oh, Hillary is a thief. That's the real news of the day, as opposed to anything to do with Donald Trump.

WATTERS: All right. Well, they're calling it fake news and we have no idea. Lying to Mueller, that is the charge Manafort is facing. They're going to revoke his plea deal. Some people say, Dana, that, you know, he cut the plea deal and then he's not telling the special counsel what the special counsel wants to hear and that's the basis of this.

PERINO: Well, will have to find out because -- Mueller is moving for the sentencing to happen immediately and pulling the plea deal, so when you do that, you have to write a sentencing memo that explains why -- I don't think that they would go to these lengths and say we're pulling it because he's lying to us. We're not going to be able to show you why. You have to show why. So, when he does that you can judge whether or not it's just fake or if it was real. I mean, if you lied to the FBI, there are consequences for it.

WATTERS: I don't see this ever ending, Greg. This is now approaching two years. I mean, it doesn't show any signs of winding down, does it?

GUTFELD: It's like the Simpsons. You just have a new season. It's like 38 years going. Manafort -- I love the Manafort -- I agree with you, Juan.  The Manafort meeting is just to me hilarious that he met Assange in 2013 because he really thought there was a possibility of a Trump presidency.  He might have been the only person on the planet who believed there would be a Trump presidency in 2013. That would then -- a president who wouldn't extradite him. That makes absolutely no sense. Either that or Assange truly is a genius. I think that no matter what comes out of this while thing, it will be delicious chum for the mainstream media, but I don't think any of it will have legal conferences for Trump. And meanwhile, you got to have to look at these metrics which is war, compared to the past, not bad. Crime is declining globally. Poverty, eradicated most part of the world. Economy, GDP, jobs, wages, enough said. So you can have your scandal, but the world is going great.

WATTERS: So if Dershowitz is right, Morgan, and report comes out and there's nothing kind of criminal in it, but it's, as he calls it, politically devastating. I'm sure there's going to be people on one side that's going to say, see, no collusion. And then on the other side, they're going to see, see, Trump's a villain, you know. And they're just gonna go to their separate corners.

ORTAGUS: I think that's true. There's always a lot of moving parts to this story. And as it relates to Manafort, essentially what Mueller is saying is that he's no longer useful to the government. He's no longer cooperating witness. That's --

PERINO: We didn't say that he lied, which is different.

ORTAGUS: Right. There's saying -- but he's also not able to prove whatever narrative that they're trying to put out there. But who still is cooperating? We know Flynn is still cooperating. We know Cohen is still cooperating. We that because --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: But Flynn's sentencing is next Tuesday, December 4. That's why I do think this is starting to wrap up. And these developments started after President Trump turned in his answers, so that's why I think that you can see that they're like, OK, let's wind it on down then.

(CROSSTALK)

ORTAGUS: If you combined that with the Russians who have already been indicted for hacking and for the social media campaign, I think you can actually start to see what Mueller is trying to connect here. Did Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, any of these guys have any interactions with the Russians who have already been indicted? And the big thing that I'm looking for is will there be an Assange indictment coming out as well? We had that story a couple of weeks ago. That's in there. So, if you see an Assange indictment, you see the Russians on two different counts have already been indicted. Is there a way -- this is what the whole --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: There's another person that is cooperating, that's Robert Gates who is Manafort's partner. So how could Mueller know that Manafort was lying? Well, he's still talking to Gates. That's the possibility and that's how you show the connection in the sentencing --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Gates it's a known liar, too. I mean, he will say anything in order to save his tail, and he was proven a liar when he was under cross- examination.

WILLIAMS: And also, Trump has submitted some answers now. So that --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I don't understand how that works, but, you know, the question is was Trump's lawyers were they in touch with what was being said.

PERINO: Or may be Trump's answers get you to the part where you can start to wrap this up and concluded --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Let's wrap up this segment.

WILLIAMS: So what we see is, in fact, we have President Trump today going after --

WATTERS: On to the monologue.

WILLIAMS: He's going after Mueller in such a way that would suggest that we are about to wrap it up and its not going to be good news for him when he starts to say, oh, these people should be going after Hillary Clinton.  Oh, my gosh. Talk about distraction, big time. Gas lighting.

WATTERS: OK, Juan. Is twitter unfairly silencing conservatives while radical lefties get a free pass? Next on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So, after much outcry, twitter has reinstated the account of conservative Iraq war veteran Jesse Kelly after he was permanently banned, permanently for violating the platforms policies. Which policies? Not sure, since twitter really hasn't said. We do know it wasn't for being anti-Semitic because Louis Farrakhan is still welcome. Well, look, twitter is a company. It can toss anyone it wants. If I own a bar and you're being a jerk in that bar, you're gone. The question here though is who stays and who goes? If this guy was kick off for being a jerk, then let's kick off all the jerks, right? But then there goes twitter. But if the guy actually harassed someone, twitter should have said so. So it makes you wonder if twitter's treatment is fair. And would they have changed their minds if Jesse hadn't been on Tucker last night?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've given me no explanation as they told congress they would give explanations. All they said was an email that said you're permanently banned and you can't appeal it for repeated rules violations.  Only, I don't violate their rules. I don't cuss at people on there. I don't harass people on there. I don't do any of those ugly things that some people do. So, twitter is going to become what they are. All the sudden, my account vanished like a Hillary Clinton email.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Tucker did not blink once during that. Now, I don't know what Kelly -- Mr. Kelly said to get him in hot water, but the trend is larger than any one dude. It's part of a larger think culture where groupthink monitors and activist mainstream media websites and social justice mobsters target dissenters. And this attack typically goes in one direction, left to right. The right rarely titles, so twitter think they don't matter.  So, make a bad joke, use the wrong pronoun, God help you. You'll get doxed, annoyed at home, fired from Google, kicked off twitter. What's the solution? Well, to paraphrase writer Walter Kern, as twitter seems to limits expression, it started to feel like tacit approval to stay, so maybe it's time to move on and starts some freedom of our own.

So, I do think -- I'm ambivalent about this, Dana, because when I say like get off twitter, it's because we all have The Five. So we have a place that we can express our opinions. And so I say I hate twitter. Get off of it. But, like, if someone like Jesse Kelly is kicked off twitter, he doesn't have a place to go and shout like I do or you do.

PERINO: Right.

PERINO: Because you shout a lot.  PERINO: You make a good point about twitter. It's a private company, so it can make these decisions. But Tucker brought up last night that increasingly these private companies are acting like media companies.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: And media companies are actually regulated differently. And there's a lot of heat on all of Silicon Valley.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: But the regulatory pushes coming from the right and the left but for different reasons. And I don't think it will actually end up getting to any solution.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: But at this point, I think you're right. There's no other place to go for people to -- I guess there is. I mean, you can go to Facebook --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: -- then you've got those problems.

GUTFELD: Every place has a problem. Except here, Jesse.

WATTERS: And not Watters' World --

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: -- peace and harmony.

GUTFELD: Do you think twitter is actually acting as a bouncer? But the responding out of fear from focus pressure, like if three people get on twitter and they just bombarded them -- because that's how I feel --

WATTERS: Yeah. I think liberals might complain more and target conservative speech more actively. I don't think conservatives really care that much when liberals go off because they go off so often. Except someone as high-profile like Louise Farrakhan, that, I think, is a huge double standard. Jack Dorsey, the CEO, admitted there's a huge institutional problem at twitter. He says conservative employees, quote, don't feel safe to express their opinions at the company and it's a big problem. And I think over 90 percent of donations in the 2016 presidential cycle from twitter and other social media companies went to Hillary Clinton. And remember when twitter actually deactivated Donald Trump's account. Some guy -- some random dude in like, you know, the back of the company deactivated the President of the United States' account. Look at these other people, conservatives who've been deactivated or, you know, suspended, James Woods, Laura Loomer, Alex Jones, Candace Owens, Roger Stone, Anthony Cumia. I'm not defending anything these guys did -- you know, or said to get, you know, booted, but I can't find one prominent liberal that twitter --

GUTFELD: I know -- there's a feminist that just got thrown off for saying --

PERINO: She's from Canada?

GUTFELD: Yeah, that two Jenner's. And I would hasten to say that Alex Jones isn't a conservative. He's a conspiratorial.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: With all the list that Jesse just read off, Alex Jones and the likes, a lot of those people are conspiracy theorists --

GUTFELD: Not James Woods.

WILLIAMS: OK. And what we're experiencing in this country is a tremendous spike in hate crimes and the kind of --

GUTFELD: And fake hate crimes.

WILLIAMS: Well, but I'm saying most of it is coming from the right.

GUTFELD: Not exactly -- no the fake hate crimes are coming from the left.

WILLIAMS: I think -- I think most of it comes from the right. And I think as a country, but also as a company, for Twitter, to Dana's point, you have to figure out how to manage this, because there's one level at which you say, you know what, this is an open platform. Everybody has a right to say anything they want to say.

But when it's used to perpetuate hate, bullying, misogyny, anti-Semitism, as you point out by Farrakhan. I think that they do have some responsibility --

GUTFELD: Of course.

WILLIAMS: -- to say, "This is wrong."

GUTFELD: Of course.

ORTAGUS: I think Jack Dorsey, he should be asked about Farrakhan every single time anyone interviews him or he goes before Congress. I mean, that's the most egregious.

But I think that something else Twitter has done is it's completely taken the veil off the objectivity of reporters. I mean, when I logged on last night, I was looking at some of the reporters, political reporters, taking their time to make fun of Melania Trump, our first lady's White House Christmas decorations.

And I thought, you know, I actually go on Twitter to try to see what's breaking, what reporters -- what stories have been written, what my friends have written. But taking -- that's just one, like, microcosm of an example of how reporters are, like -- what are you doing, as a political reporter, making snarky comments about White House Christmas decorations? That's got no value to society.

GUTFELD: But isn't -- isn't it good for us to see it? I think it's a positive thing. What you're saying is true, but I'd like to know what those guys are thinking, to see what's behind them. You know, because they're actually telling you what they really think.

ORTAGUS: But Twitter is the one social media platform where I go on where I get really angry and pissed off when I go on it, when I see the stuff.  When I go on Instagram, I'm seeing people's, like -- I see Dana's dog. I see my my friends' dogs and kids. Same thing for Facebook.

GUTFELD: I'm the opposite.

ORTAGUS: Twitter has a value add, you know, if we want to learn things.  But there's no -- there's no sort of, like, rules of engagement, especially for people that are supposed to be unbiased.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Wait a second. Snark -- you didn't know reporters are a bunch of snarky jerks?

ORTAGUS: I do.

WILLIAMS: Well, I can tell you. I'm a snarky jerk. People who sit around, who cover powerful politicians --

ORTAGUS: I'm snarky, too. I don't mind snarky. But --

WILLIAMS: OK. But I'm just saying, that's the reality. So if you see it --

WATTERS, CO-HOST: The snark just goes in one direction.

WILLIAMS: I think -- no, it's not.

WATTERS: Juan, come on.

WILLIAMS: But I just think, when you look at something like -- you know, and this is the holiday season. People start talking about how people dress, who was at the party. This is what human beings do. I don't think that's of bounds.

GUTFELD: You know the one thing, though, that we don't talk about is that -- how Twitter operates under the illusion of being free, like, when in fact, we're the product, right? Because their advertising is based on our group, or followers. So it's like, it costs us nothing to be on Twitter, and we think it's free; but actually, we are their product. It's kind of - - it's kind of gross.

WILLIAMS: That's true of the whole Internet. Right?

WATTERS: And they're losing money --

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.

ORTAGUS: Yes, business model.

WATTERS: -- because they haven't figured out a way to profit.

GUTFELD: Yes. All right. Global outrage follows a scientist. New claims about designer babies. The controversy next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. Major new ethical questions being raised in the debate over so-called designer babies.

A Chinese scientist now claiming to have made the world's first genetically-edited human. The researcher saying he altered the DNA of twin girls born a few weeks ago to make them resistant to HIV and AIDS.

While many in the scientific community are doubting the development, others have been saying China has been doing this successfully for years.

What do you think, Morgan?

ORTAGUS: Well, I think so there's a big debate of, like, is it a designer baby when you're choosing the eye color or the hair color or something like that? Because you can already -- well, you can choose the gender if you're getting IVF in terms of which embryo you want to use.

I think this is actually interesting. I'm not totally sure where I stand on making babies resistant to HIV or any sort of terrible disease.

I do think with the Chinese, you have that awful aspect of -- of them prioritizing male ladies over female babies for so long and the abortions and things that happened that I thought is terrible.

So I don't actually know where I stand on ethically. Because part of me -- makes me think, I don't have children yet but if I have them and you could make my son or daughter resistant to cancer or HIV, why wouldn't I want that?

WILLIAMS: Well, in fact, in the polls, Jesse, what you see is, like, 80 percent of people say this is going too far. I mean, I think they may be they are thinking in Morgan's terms about eye color, I.Q., all that kind of stuff.

ORTAGUS: Which is a little creepy.

WILLIAMS: Right. But then when you ask the question if it's, in fact, helping a child that has an existing disease, people are much more open to it. It's the idea that you are going forward and saying, well, this will make you resistant to something that may happen. What do you think?

WATTERS: Yes, I agree with the public sentiment on that, except I think we need to get with the program. If the Chinese are going to outpace us -- and this is a competitive world, Juan -- and they're pumping out all these designer babies that are, you know, winning all these gold medals at the Olympics and inventing all these great things; and they're going to Mars and colonizing it. And we're sitting back with these regular babies that are just, like, hitting their heads on the sofa.

I mean, we've got to get with the program. You know? Let's go, America.

WILLIAMS: Wow, I thought you were a pro-American guy. Because I think we do pretty well at the Olympics.

WATTERS: Yes, we do. But I mean, if we need a leg up, we need a leg up.

WILLIAMS: A leg up. All right. I'll keep that puppy in mind.

But Dana, you know, what the supporters are saying is, hey, way back in the 1970s when we came up with in vitro fertilization, everybody thought, "Oh, my God. What's going on here?"

PERINO: So I went to a lecture, like, three years ago about this very issue; and the debate really centered for about 45 minutes about people raising their hands saying they think this is terrible. These were all Americans, by the way. Terrible. This is concerning. This is ethically a problem. What's going to happen to the gene pool? What about people that have disabilities? What will happen to them? And all of this angst.

And at the very end, the scientist from Google stood up and he said, "Yes, well, that's all very interesting, but the Chinese have been doing this for years. Like, this debate is over. It's already moved on."

So the scientific development has happened already. I don't know if this - - I don't know if this has actually happened. There are doubts about this particular scientist, but there is a race to get there.

WILLIAMS: Wow. And Greg, we don't know what happened to the twins.

GUTFELD: I know. This is why we have to be -- look at this with some cautious skepticism, a phrase I coined.

But I'm with Jesse. Edit the hell out of these babies. Because if I had the technology, and -- and we were expecting, I would want the baby born without the crying and pooping all over the place gene. A gene that said - - OK, imagine your wife gives birth to a baby that pops out, right, adorable as hell, that says (IN BRITISH ACCENT), "Oh, hello, Mom. Thank you for having me. I'm just going to pop to the loo."

(SPEAKING NORMALLY): So he has a British accent. He's adorable. He can use the bathroom.

ORTAGUS: It's called a nanny.

GUTFELD: Then you just skip all the bad stuff. You just manipulate the genes so you have a tiny little British adult in a baby body who's very polite and uses the bathroom.

WATTERS: Greg, you could make your baby tall.

GUTFELD: I could. Why would I? Why would I? Maybe I would want him to stay that size forever, because babies are so adorable. Especially with a British accent.

WILLIAMS: You could make Frankenstein. You could make Frankenstein.

GUTFELD: You can make anything.

WILLIAMS: But here's the thing. So what the researchers say is even if this guy had success and made the babies more resistant to disease --

GUTFELD: It's a good thing.

WILLIAMS: -- we don't know what it does to future generations, because we can't anticipate the consequences --

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: -- of the gene manipulation.

GUTFELD: I think we'd all want -- we'd all want a child that doesn't get, you know, HIV and doesn't get cancer and all that other stuff.

WILLIAMS: Well, we'll see where it goes.

GUTFELD: At least the rich would. You know for one thing --

PERINO: That's the other thing.

GUTFELD: -- if this is possible, the rich are going to do it.

PERINO: Well, that -- that was the other part of it.

GUTFELD: Because they want to live forever.

PERINO: The debate was about the ethical piece of it in terms of the inequality. Like, the rich will be able to afford this.

GUTFELD: Silicon Valley are already doing this.

PERINO: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Let me ask you. Do you think the rich have benefited from all this plastic surgery? I don't think so.

GUTFELD: I look great.

PERINO: Ask Jesse.

WATTERS: You manipulate -- you manipulate genes so you don't have to get plastic surgery.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. But I'm saying, you know, we talk about the economic inequality of who gets to use the DNA manipulation. But who gets to use plastic surgery? It's the rich. I don't think they --

WATTERS: I would rather aspire to be rich enough to have a designer baby.

WILLIAMS: Oh.

ORTAGUS: Did you see the movie "Idiocracy."

GUTFELD: Yes.

ORTAGUS: It's like, totally against your premise.

WILLIAMS: I think it's playing all around America at the moment.

ORTAGUS: All the idiots have it.

GUTFELD: Aww. Unnecessary, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Now, what were you saying, Morgan?

ORTAGUS: No, I was just saying the movie "Idiocracy," it's like -- it's a comedy. It's all about how, like, the idiots outnumber the smart people, because women like me -- I know, Mom -- we're too old to have children.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. Never too old.

ORTAGUS: Sorry, Mom.

PERINO: That's a Thanksgiving discussion.

ORTAGUS: Yes. My angst for Thanksgiving is coming out.

WILLIAMS: All right. Chick-Fil-A firing back at a campus crusade against the restaurant chain. Details are ahead right here on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ORTAGUS: OK. Chick-Fil-A hitting back against Ryder University after administrators remove the fast-food chain as a possible campus dining option -- because they're communists -- despite the students' wishes. The school is claiming that the restaurant isn't welcome because of its Christian values and attitudes towards the LGBTU [SIC] -- LGBTQ community.  Greg, can't speak today.

WATTERS: It's LGBTQ, Morgan. Seriously.

ORTAGUS: Sorry. Thank you.

The Chick-Fil-A denies this in a statement. Quote: "Our restaurants and licensed locations on college campuses welcome everyone. We have no policy of discrimination against any group, and we do not have a political or social agenda."

Juan, I'm very passionate about this, because I love Chick-Fil-A. And I think public funding should be taken away from any university who doesn't support Chick-Fil-A. What do you think?

WILLIAMS: I'll have an order of the grilled strips. I think they're delicious.

ORTAGUS: You know, only a Democrat would order grilled chicken.

WILLIAMS: Why? Oh, you -- because as a Southerner, you want fried.

ORTAGUS: It's got to be fried.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's possible.

ORTAGUS: God-fearing Americans order fried chicken.

WILLIAMS: If you want -- if you want great fried chicken, you would not be going to Chick-Fil-A. I mean, you would go -- you could go down south to, like, Gus's or in New Orleans. What is that, Annie May --

GUTFELD: Do you like Popeyes?

WILLIAMS: What?

GUTFELD: Do you like Popeyes?

WILLIAMS: Love Popeyes.

GUTFELD: Popeyes is pretty good. Dirty rice.

WILLIAMS: I think so. That's where you go if you want fried chicken.

But this conversation is an interesting one, because it seems to me that Dan Cathy, who's the head of Chick-Fil-A, he wants it both ways. He says that he is a devout Christian, and he has a biblical interpretation when it comes to LGBTQ. Did I get it, Jesse?

WATTERS: You got it, Juan.

ORTAGUS: I know, I screwed it up. I hear that.

WILLIAMS: So he says he has -- and in fact, they close on Sundays.  They've closed on Sundays because of his faith.

ORTAGUS: It's the most annoying thing ever. I always want Chick-Fil-A on Sundays, Dana, whenever it's closed.

WILLIAMS: So how can he -- so if somebody says, "Hey, Mr. Cathy" -- and this is what Boston has said, the city of Boston said they weren't even going to allow him in at one point. The city of Pittsburgh said, "We don't want you to sponsor our kids' stuff." Because they say, "What you're saying about gay people is going to hurt gay people and hurt their families, offensive to people. And as the government, we choose not to embrace it.

ORTAGUS: I don't see the CEO coming out and -- I mean, this controversy that he donated to traditional marriage causes was, like, 2013. What I see is a very well-run company where people are incredibly happy to work there.  When I go to Chick-Fil-A, all races, all genders.

PERINO: And great service. They have an amazing training program.

ORTAGUS: I'm sure there's plenty of gay people who work at Chick-Fil-A.

PERINO: And you don't see, like, students at Hillsdale College are not basically saying, "We don't want any of these other companies to come, because they donated to Nancy Pelosi." I mean, that just -- it doesn't happen the other way.

And David Brooks this morning in his column in The New York Times was talking about this difference between the new progressives, the younger progressives are quite militant. And it's frustrating, I imagine. We see it here with Juan sometimes, pulling your hair out, because you want to see -- you believe in the First Amendment, people's free rights, civility, all these things. But these younger people, they don't think that way.

ORTAGUS: No.

WATTERS: That was a great column in The Times, by the way.

PERINO: Thank you.

WATTERS: Joking (ph).

ORTAGUS: Jesse, the first argument that I hear is that whenever you start talking about Chick-Fil-A, people bring it back to the cake -- people who bake the cakes and say, "Oh, if you don't want to, you know, bake a cake for a gay couple," and how that's wrong. And they sort of always, I feel like, conflate these two issues. Whenever you just have plenty of private CEOs who have their own opinions about political issues.

WATTERS: Well, here's what's going on, I think. The students want it, because it's cheap and it's tasty. And the administration didn't want it because it's gauche; and they don't want to put on weight, because they're old.

If you're older than 40 or 50, you can't eat Chick-Fil-A. People don't like it. They think they're going to get fat. They think it's unhealthy.  So they're trying to deprive their own student body of unhealthy fried chicken, because they don't think it's very cool to, you know, say to their friends, "Oh, yes, my school has Chick-Fil-A. Can you believe it?" It's - - it's, you know, about P.R. for these people.

ORTAGUS: So what else, Greg, do you think that we should ban from --

PERINO: Did you read the packet?

ORTAGUS: -- universities? What other food groups?

GUTFELD: I think Jesse needs a show called "Jesse's Generalizations."  Because --

WATTERS: It's going to be on FOX Nation.

GUTFELD: FOX Nation. OK.

To -- to Dana's point, it's the tyranny of militant voices. You don't need very many. You only need four or five militant voices to fill a company or a college with fear. All right? "Oh, my God. They're targeting us. What can we do?" So it's the finks versus the cowards in a college.

And this goes back to the point I made a while ago that if we all shared the risk, they can't get us all. If everybody says, "You know what? You can't scare us. You can yell at us all we want. We're still going to have Chick-Fil-A."

The problem is, colleges, they're the weakest. They are the weakest. They don't want it. They don't want any trouble, man. And you see this in company H.R.s, as well. And their P.R., they all get scared. They all -- like, if they see something on Twitter, like a mob, they freak out.

Remember in Chicago, Rahm Emanuel? "I'll never have Chick-Fil-A here," while people are dying in his streets. I mean, talk about priorities.

WATTERS: Yes, but I mean, they didn't want this P.R. on this local story.  Now, "The Five" is covering Ryder University doing this.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: So I think it backfired.

And where is the Chick-Fil-A, producers?

GUTFELD: Yes

WATTERS: I'm serious. How can we do this segment without chicken?

ORTAGUS: Come on. We need some sweet tea.

WILLIAMS: Your sweet tea? Are you kidding? We had a birthday today here at "The Five." And you know what the prize was?

WATTERS: What?

PERINO: What?

WILLIAMS: Chick-Fil-A shakes.

WATTERS: Ooh!

GUTFELD: Made from live chickens.

ORTAGUS: The peach -- the peach milkshake is the best. OK. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Jesse.

WATTERS: OK. Chris Gursky, vacationing in Switzerland -- never been there -- he tried to give hang gliding a try, but Juan, it almost left him hanging on for his life. You see, the pilot forgot to attach this guy, so he's there unattached, hanging on -- hanging on for dear life.

PERINO: Oh, my gosh.

WATTERS: He actually describes how he stayed calm during the flight.  Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS GURSKY, SURVIVED HANG GLIDING MISHAP (via phone): Pretty much stayed -- tried to stay calm and focused and, you know, just decided that it wasn't my time. I'm going to hold on as long as I possibly could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: That's a very smart idea.

PERINO: Wow.

WATTERS: So he -- it took about 2 minutes. He glided it down and he tore his bicep and hurt his wrist. And he says he's going to still go hang gliding again.

And the president of the Swiss Hang Gliding Association describe the incident as horrifying. Who knew there was a Swiss Hang Gliding Association?

GUTFELD: They're great fun.

WATTERS: They are. Also, I'm on "Hannity," which also is kind of like hang gliding without a strap. There I am. That's tonight. Watters.

GUTFELD: Hanging with Hannity.

WATTERS: Hanging with Hannity. Generalizing all the way.

PERINO: OK. Today is Giving Tuesday. You might have heard about that.  This is the -- you know, 'tis the season, and Tuesday is the day where you can focus and do some good for other people before the end of the year. Of course, also, you get in there before the taxman cometh.

I chose three this year. Mercy Ships, of course. You know, I promise you, these people, they do all these great surgeries in West Africa. They never waste a dollar.

I also love Companions for Heroes. This is run by Dave Sharp. He is a veteran himself, and he figured out a way to match rescue dogs with veterans that have PTSD that need their help. So that's awesome.

And then I added a new one this year for me. Canine Companions for Independence. You might have seen Spike. He's being raised by the producer of "The Daily Briefing," Jen Williams.

So check it out. And FOX News is pretty amazing. They're matching employee donations, so think about that, guys.

GUTFELD: Only three, Dana? Wow.

PERINO: Three that I -- three that I mentioned.

WATTERS: You're a compassionate conservative?

GUTFELD: Three charities?

Anyway, you know, tomorrow is the premier of the FOX Nation show "One Smart Person and Greg Gutfeld." And you've got to check it -- check it out. I'm not going to tell you who the smart person is, although most of you people can probably predict who it might be. But it's great, 4 p.m. And it is not not Scott Adams.

PERINO: Can we drink now?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Scott Adams.

GUTFELD: No, it is.

WATTERS: It is, it is. Of course.

GUTFELD: All right. Time for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I can't believe you got a double "One More Thing" for this.

GUTFELD: You know animals are great, especially a French bulldog who sings along with his rubber ducky. Check this out. He squeaks -- look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FRENCH BULLDOG STEPS ON RUBBER CHICKEN AND THEN HOWLS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: He steps on it, gets the sound and then sings along with it. I don't know about you, but when I look at that, it makes me think one thought. You know what that thought is?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Nice hat.

PERINO: Juan.

WILLIAMS: Talk -- talk about free thinking. Oh, my goodness.

Anyway, a week after fires burned down much of Paradise, California, the local high school teams returned to the basketball court yesterday. Both the boys and girls teams played their rival, neighboring Chico High School.  The boys won. The girls team lost.

But the big story came before tip-off. Both teams stood together holding hands.

The deadliest American fire in a century killed at least 88 people. Every girl on the Paradise team, with one exception, lost her home.

GUTFELD: Wow.

ORTAGUS: Wow.

WILLIAMS: More than 200 people still missing. All the proceeds from the game are being donated to Paradise High School athletics. Go team, go.

PERINO: Indeed. Good job, girls.

Morgan, wrap us up.

ORTAGUS: OK, so this Thanksgiving weekend, we were able to also celebrate my grandmother's 80th birthday.

PERINO: She's beautiful.

WILLIAMS: Wow.

ORTAGUS: So my grandmother -- thank you. I hired a hair and makeup artist that came, and we took family pictures. I think that she looks absolutely amazing for 80. She's watching right now. She's going to be embarrassed that I am revealing her.

PERINO: She's gorgeous. I saw this on Instagram.

ORTAGUS: That's the make-up artist there. That's me and my granny. And so we're celebrating her birthday still this week. I just want to say Granny -- this is our whole family -- I love you more than anything in the world.

WILLIAMS: Very nice.

ORTAGUS: Happy 80th birthday. I'm tearing up now. You mean everything.

PERINO: Grandmothers are so special.

ORTAGUS: I love you, Granny.

WATTERS: She looks like one of those designer babies.

WILLIAMS: Oh, boy.

PERINO: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."  How could you? "Special Report" is up next.

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