Trump unveils tax reform plan after ObamaCare repeal fails

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 27, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. Its 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." Political stakes are high as President Trump and the GOP now try to tackle tax reform after failing to repeal Obamacare. Will they succeed? The president made his way to Indianapolis this afternoon to roll out a sweeping plan to overhaul the tax code.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're going to cut taxes for the middle class, make the tax code simpler and more fair for everyday Americans. And we are going to bring back the jobs and wealth that have left our country. And most people thought left our country for good. We want tax reform that is pro-growth, pro-jobs, pro-worker, pro- family, and yes, tax reform that is pro-American.


GUILFOYLE: The president's plan would slash the corporate tax rate to 20 percent from 35 percent, and lower the top individual tax rate from 39.6 percent to 35. Here's more from Mr. Trump a short while ago.


TRUMP: It's time from Washington to learn from the wisdom of Indiana, we need Washington to promote American jobs instead of obstructing them. That is what I've been working to achieve every day since I took office. That is what I talked about on the campaign trail. Already we're seeing the results of an economic policy that finally puts America first.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So Dana, now a lot of people have an opinion about this because they're people very strong supporters of the president, his campaign and the policies that he was planning. One of the big things was tax reform. They've definitely need to be able to achieve something because especially coming on the heels of yet another failed attempt with health care. How did you feel the president did today in terms of his messaging and what about the content?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think the rollout has been fairly good. I think that he had to give the speech on the teleprompter, but I hope he doesn't do a ton of them on them because I think -- tax reform hasn't been done really well in 30 years. And I think his ability to sell it in plain spoken words in the way that he does is actually probably one of the best things he has going for them. I think that the text of the plan and of the speech, you read it on paper, a little bit in the weed, but you can get -- basically gets the gist.

They're going to have obstacles. Already, the left is painting this as tax cuts for the rich and this only going to benefit the wealthy. That is not true, but it's hard to argue it on the other side. I think that he started to do that today. And I think based on what I've heard that the White House has a pretty good plan to get their coalition together in order to try to advance this. But I really do think the rich are going to end up paying more. So if you're in the tax code -- or the zip code where you really wanted Hillary Clinton to win, you should be glad because you thought the rich should pay more, and under this plan they're going to end up paying more.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So Greg, do you think they're going to get that, get the messaging, and actually understand the contents of this tax reform, or just be obstructionist? Say we don't like it no matter what it is. Even if you tax the rich because President Trump is putting it forward.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Whenever they say they're simplifying something, it's never truly simplified. They still use jargon that I don't understand. There's something about a tax -- you'll be tax at a rate of zero. What does that mean? You're not being taxed? Why don't you just say you're not going to be taxed? But taxed at a rate of zero goes way over my head. I'm not that bright on this stuff. Come on, just simplify it. Really simplified it. The problem I have with this is the order in which this administration tackle their issues. For example, it's like with Obamacare or tax reform, I would have loved it if they've done tax reform first. They chose the wrong lane at the supermarket. The Obamacare lane did not move. And here you go -- the tax reform line you would have just zoomed right through.

PERINO: Yes, three items or less.

GUTFELD: Three items or less

GUILFOYLE: I hate when that happens at the airport, too.

GUTFELD: You're always going, how did that happen? That's not there.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: And you're peeking over at the other line, and you're like, oh, you're already been there.

PERINO: Looking at your wife or your husband like, should we go, should we move?

GUTFELD: And you move.

WATTERS: And the other line opens up. Yeah, we do a lot of the grocery shopping.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I just tell them I'm on "The Five" and I get right through.


GUTFELD: That's "The Five" privilege, Juan.


PERINO: Check your privilege.

GUILFOYLE: Jesse, you were a little bit critical of the president before about tax reform. How did you feel about it today, because you wanted to see some, you know, meaty cuts?

WATTERS: I do. I still want to see those meaty cuts. I'm not happy about a few things. He's holding out the possibility of still raising taxes on the very wealthy. This is Obama's third term.

GUILFOYLE: And you plan to be one.

WATTERS: This is not what people signed up for. I don't know where he's coming off. I guess this is a populist thing or the deficit hawk deal. I don't get it.


WATTERS: I don't think a lot of his core base wants to soak the rich. I don't. I think they would like tax cuts for themselves, but I don't think they're in it to get back at the greedy billionaires. I also don't like that he's only cutting the top rate from 39 to 35. I think it's too timid. Reagan slashed the top rate in his two terms from 70 to 28. To sell it as this is a Reagan-esque tax cut I think is incorrect. Also, they should be cutting capital gains and dividend tax cuts -- taxes because I think that helps older Americans.

I do like somethings, though. I do like the income tax reductions as a general point. It's our money. It's not the government's money. The increasing of the child tax credit and the doubling of the center deduction I think that helps, kind of, lower middle income people and for Americans. Some of them will pay zero. Again, I don't understand what that means, but it sounds good. Eliminate the death tax. That's straight up communism. That should have been out a very long time ago.

The president really is selling this mostly as the corporate tax rate reduction is going to be the key driver to growth and to job creation and to wage growth. And then you're also going to bring back money from overseas as well and invest more in America. It's an America first tax cut. I think there's a lot of good things. There's some bad things, but on the whole, it's much better than what we have now.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So there's room for improvement you think, but it's definitely going in the right direction.

PERINO: But it's only going to get tougher. It's not -- if this is your opening bid, it's not going to get better for you.

WATTERS: That's what he wanted to open the bit at 15 percent on the corporate side.

PERINO: On the corporate side, I know.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So Juan, Dana said there's some things here that the Democrats and the liberal should be OK with it. It shouldn't be too displeasing to them. Are you feeling pleased or displeased, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I'm sort of curious because I don't know -- I think it would be great if we had tax reform in this country. I really do. I think people would like a more simple, direct way to know what taxes they're paying, why they're paying them, and to feel that they're going for a good use by the government. On all those things, I say great. And in fact, President Trump during the campaign promised that this would be tax reform, they wouldn't simply be about some tax cuts that would then open the door to what's been described here as tax cuts for the very rich.

And by the way, according to the polls, and NBC-Wall Street Journal it's like 55 percent of Americans oppose any kind of cut for the corporate tax rate, you know. And they also think that in fact the rich should pay more. So I don't know. But that's what the American people think. So when I'm looking at this, I'm thinking, oh, so the Republicans have given up on tax reform. Now all they want to do is tax cuts. And the driver, as Jesse was saying is corporate tax cuts. And the argument there, which is an interesting one, is, hey, this economy would be doing even better. We'd knock them out.

We would be the global titan if we could lower our tax rate to be competitive with tax rates in Europe and the rest of the world. So, but then when you look at it, you discover, hey, wait a second. Our tax rates aren't out of line. Guess what? You know, I mean, you look at the deductions and the write-offs and our corporate tax rate -- and that's what really galls me, Jesse, Mr. Populist, is that there's about half or more of American corporations that pay zero. If you're puzzled, Greg, this is your answer. Zero means you pay no tax.

WATTERS: Right, that's because all the corporate lobbyists down at the swamp sit in there in these rooms and then rewrite all of these things to carve out the loopholes and the incentives. That's how it all works.

WILLIAMS: It's troubling to me because I think the president wants something. He's given up on tax reform. He wants tax cuts. But he's open the door to Democrats having a very effective argument.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, this tax reform definitely comes right on the heels of another health care defeat, as we've discussed from Republicans. But the president -- he's not losing hope.


TRUMP: I was hoping this will be put on my desk right after we won the election and I'd come in and sign, but it didn't work that way. And a couple of people that -- I won't say anything. But early next year when reconciliation kicks back in at any event, long before the November election, we're going to have a vote and we're going to be able to get that through, and I think we'll actually get it through very easily.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So Greg, you were saying earlier that you take issue strongly. Not with the use of the term zero, but with the order in which the president tried to.

GUTFELD: It's like you're faced with two choices. A beautiful swimming pool and the La Brea tar pit. And it's like -- every time you go to health care, it's the La Brea tar pit. People in California know what that is. It's like just a big -- basically a.


GUTFELD: . tar pit, yes. We used to go there as kids. That was where my parents took me.

WATTERS: That explain so much.

PERINO: You're not supposed to eat it

GUTFELD: On summer vacations.

GUILFOYLE: That was your community pool?

GUTFELD: Here's the issue, what was so wrong with the Graham-Cassidy bill? Why does this thing have to be perfect? You're never going to get a perfect bill. So instead you're going to sit here and you're -- one person is not going to like this. The perfect bill will not exist. This will not happen.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second, did you just say you don't think tax reform will happen?

GUTFELD: No, I was talking about Graham-Cassidy.


GUILFOYLE: Dana, so it was interesting that the president mentioning this. He seemed a little bit, you know, upset that perhaps this was something he wanted to do.

PERINO: I like it that he's keeping the door open, because that's basically gives him a chance to sort of look ahead. Also, because he knows that a lot of Republican donors are sitting there and thinking, are you kidding me? Like we don't have anything at this point? He can blame the establishment and the people on Capitol Hill and the swamp. The truth is that he will have to pay the price for that. But I do think that the Democrats -- the Democrats still like play ball on tax reform. If the president continues to press in these red states that have Democratic senators that are up for election, he might be able to have enough in order to get tax reform done.

It might not be what Reagan was able to do, but that's because there's not that much room to cut. The tax rates aren't at 70 percent. You can go from 70 to 30 when you were in the 80's. Right now, you just can't raise enough revenue in order to pay for the things that we want. I also think that we're having a bigger discussion about health care and tax reform but we're not really having it here, but the people are having it, and that is what kind of government do you want? What do you expect them to be able to pay for? And how much do you think Americans should contribute to their government? Those are bigger issue questions.

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Why are children so special? Tax credits -- Dana, you get a tax credit for having a kid. I want a tax credit for my barbell because that's every bit as expensive as a child.

WILLIAMS: Who invited WC.

GUTFELD: If I disappeared from this earth, four or five bars would go out of business. So I want a tax credit for my barbell.

GUILFOYLE: OK, really relatable problems, Greg. OK, Jesse.

GUTFELD: No. It's a point about kids. Why do you get a tax break for a kid?


GUTFELD: Why should that be part of a tax plan? Oh, you're going to be rewarded. Maybe you shouldn't have kids.


WATTERS: Procreation is a good thing for most civilized countries.

WILLIAMS: I just think everybody was anti-kid. Man, come on.

GUTFELD: Oh, they're little monsters, Juan. They're little monsters.

GUILFOYLE: And some of them grow up to be bigger monsters.

GUTFELD: Exactly. I'm saving the world from future me.

WATTERS: I really hate to do this. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to bring this up, but I am. Dana predicted Graham-Cassidy was going to pass.


WATTERS: And she predicted (INAUDIBLE) was going to pass.

PERINO: I did. I had hope and faith. But the president left the door open.


PERINO: If it does pass next year, save this clip and we'll play it again.

WATTERS: OK, all right.

WILLIAMS: Hey, are you going to say, and Juan was right all along?

GUILFOYLE: He's not going to go that far. His therapy hasn't exceeded to that point.


GUILFOYLE: Listen, she's a glass, you know, half-full. Come on, people. Coming up, anti-establishment candidate Roy Moore scores a big victory over Luther Strange in Alabama. What does that mean for the GOP? What does it mean for the president? Stay with us.


WATTERS: We have a winner in Alabama. Roy Moore, the former chief justice of the state Supreme Court, beat President Trump's pick to fill for Jeff Sessions' former seat in the senate. He backed Moore's opponent, Luther Strange. The headlines on some of the major newspapers today call it a blow to the GOP establishment and the president's clout. Here's Roy's take.


ROY MOORE, NEWLY APPOINTED ALABAMA SENATOR: I think the people of Alabama know me and they understand what I stand for. And I certainly support President Trump's agenda. And that -- yes, I'm an outsider, not part of the establishment. I don't think the president knew me and I think that when he gets to know me, he'll understand that I do support a very conservative agenda for this country, and I think he will back me. And I've received a call from him, and that's what he said he would do.


WATTERS: Speaking earlier today, the president said Moore will be a great senator and everything is going to work out. It was a big loss for Mitch McConnell who also backed Strange. Moore said he'll get past the majority leader's snob if he wins in December with some conditions.


MOORE: As long as he stands for a conservative agenda on what we promised the people and Republicans, I'll work with anyone.


WATTERS: OK. So Kimberly.


WATTERS: I mean this guy is an interesting guy. West Point grad, Vietnam veteran, kick boxer, ranch hand, he dabbled in poerty.



WATTERS: What kind of splash do you see Moore making in the U.S. senate?

GUILFOYLE: You know, I think he's probably going to try and go in there and be respectful with his colleagues. But at the same time, he shows that he's somebody that's not afraid to stand up and speak his mind and, you know, buck the trend if he feels it when he's in the right. So, do I think it's a situation where McConnell and the rest that supported Strange like, oh, yeah, no. But never the less, they've got to be able to work together to achieve common goals.

Do I think that the president is heartbroken over it? No, I don't. I think that the president is like, look, this is no problem and I think he really means it. That he's going to work with them. And, of course, he's probably going to do everything he can. More than make up with it with some amazing, you know, rally that's going to go like 45 to an hour over in time about him. When he returns to Alabama to make sure to clinch the victory. It's like there's going to be a lot of money dumped in to make sure to try to see if the Democrat can win. But I think it's going to work out. I think it would have been better if they were all on the same team and unified and pick the same person. I'll be honest with you and say that. Didn't happen. But look, the sun rose again.

WATTERS: That's true. And it's still probably going to be a Republican senator from Alabama. McConnell didn't really fare well in this race. Pumped a whole lot of money in there, and his association with Strange probably hurt Strange. McConnell's got an 18 percent approval rating.

PERINO: I think that's true. And in addition to that, Luther Strange was appointed by the disgraced outgoing governor of Alabama. That story is a doozy.

WATTERS: Oh, that guy. Yeah.

PERINO: It's really bad. So there was an association there already that probably for most people in Alabama, like they wanted a clean break. I almost called him senator. Giving him a promotion. Mr. Moore was already very popular all throughout Alabama. So you might argue that they might have just gone with Moore from the beginning and save that money, but I do think that the agenda that Moore was talking about is pretty secure. I don't think Alabama is going to vote for a Democrat. So Juan is looking questioningly. Here is what I would say to Democrats, don't waste your money. If you think that Moore is so crazy town that he's going to be a problem for the Republicans, don't try to beat them. They're probably not going to beat him and just let him go. And then, if you want to tag other Republicans on whatever he says or does, go for it.

WATTERS: Do the Democrats have any money left after they sank about $50 million.

PERINO: They're raking in so much money they don't even know how to spend it.

WATTERS: The DNC is not raising a lot of money.

PERINO: The left wing.

WATTERS: All the organizations?


WATTERS: Gutfeld, this is the 10 Commandments guy.


WATTERS: You must love him.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's definitely old-school. He says -- did he once say you could go to jail for being gay? Was he that guy?

WATTERS: Perhaps.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah. Maybe he's grown, who knows? I think Donald Trump is a different kind of Republican. Trump was for gay marriage before Obama was. But Trump just did what we all did last year. He sat on the wrong horse. And we all bounced back. Probably is a strong candidate, but I don't think there's a huge message here saying this is a blow to the GOP establishment. I don't see that. I just see a group of people picking one guy over the other because they knew him more.


WATTERS: That's pretty simple.


WATTERS: Is he simplifying it too much? Or do you think there's more to this, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, to me, it's fascinating politics because I think that Donald Trump is the lead player in American politics by far.


WILLIAMS: And yet, Donald Trump could not beat populist politics as run by Bannon, Palin, Hannity, Ingram, I could go on, right?

PERINO: I think you've got to give Moore some credit. I mean, he did had a very high popularity in his state. He won all but like a handful of the 67 counties.

WILLIAMS: By the way, what was with pulling a gun out? I mean, this kind of stuff just.

PERINO: He was just proving that he was.

WATTERS: In Alabama, that might work.

WILLIAMS: I don't get it. He pulls a gun out at a press -- what is this? To say that he's a second amendment guy because he can't.


GUTFELD: What? Don't say what?


WILLIAMS: Don't mention it?

GUTFELD: I didn't mention it.

WILLIAMS: Let's pretend I didn't say a word. It didn't happen. I do want to make.

PERINO: We'll explain in the commercial break.

WILLIAMS: All right. I just want to make this point, that Doug Jones who's being so quickly dismissed at this table, the Democrat who will run against Strange in December was a former U.S. attorney under Bill Clinton. Joe Biden is already in there making robo-calls and all the rest.


WILLIAMS: . big money is going in. He's the guy that won -- finally won a conviction in the bombing of little girls in that Birmingham church. So he has some energy behind him at this moment. He says people in Alabama are tired of being embarrassed by the kind of politics practiced by a man who believes that the U.S. constitution.

GUTFELD: By the way, a Biden robo-call is just him in a robe.

(LAUGHTER) WATTERS: I also like how Trump deleted all the tweets where he endorsed big Luther. Like it never happen.

GUTFELD: Don't endorse based on height.

WATTERS: How do you know?

GUTFELD: I mean I could never win office.

WATTERS: He doesn't do it with tall people. Comey, big Luther. Not a good track record. Hillary Clinton launching one of the most irresponsible attacks to date on President Trump. We'll roll the tape next.


WILLIAMS: Thanks for staying with us. Inauguration day -- eight months ago, but a lot of folks on my side of the aisle are still having a very hard time coming to terms with Donald Trump's presidency, particularly that Hillary Clinton. Here is her latest dig at the man who got the job she wants.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't think he really values democracy, Charlie.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So he doesn't value democracy.

CLINTON: No, I don't. I think he.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: He's not a Democrat, little D.

CLINTON: No, he's not. He's a top down guy.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: He's an authoritarian.

CLINTON: He has tendencies towards authoritarianism.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: So he's no different than Putin?

CLINTON: Well, you know, hopefully hasn't ordered the killing of people and journalists and the like.


WILLIAMS: An authoritarian, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I mean, this is like groundhog day, right? I mean, I don't know what's going on with this book tour. It's like never- ending. And I get it. She wants to get out there. She's selling books, OK. But at a certain point, I mean, she lose any little bit of credibility left when you're sitting there comparing the president of the United States to Putin. I mean, where does she, kind of, get off doing that?

WILLIAMS: But do you buy at all the argument that he's a businessman who believes in top-down structures and not Democratic structures?

GUILFOYLE: I think that's very different than comparing him to Putin. That's more like -- OK, he has a philosophy, kind of, best practices, and being a CEO, and -- you know, that type of thing. So that's very different than saying he's somebody who murders people, and journalists, and whatever. Comparing to the conduct of Putin.

GUTFELD: But businessmen are evil. Remember that.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Wall Street movie, yes.

WILLIAMS: What do you think?

PERINO: Well, I think this. That Donald Trump has not tried to subvert the system. OK? So when you are Putin, basically you say, "Oh, yes, those term limit things, those don't exist anymore. The age limit, doesn't exist anymore. Things have to go through Congress? No." President Trump is working through the system.

If you look -- if you're concerned about anything -- any of his policies, you look at what happened with the travel ban. Initially rejected by the courts. They reworked it, put it forward.

Health care doesn't pass twice. Tax reform, he's going through Congress, doing all the things. I don't see the autocratic tendencies that she sees.

WILLIAMS: All right. Well, it's not only Hillary Clinton. Take a look at this interview, also by Charlie Rose, with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

GUTFELD: Ginsburg.


CHARLIE ROSE: Do you think sexism played a role in that campaign?


ROSE: Yes.

GINSBURG: I have no doubt that it did.

ROSE: Do you think it was decisive?

GINSBURG: That it was...?

ROSE: Decisive.

GINSBURG: There are so many things...

ROSE: In other words, if Hillary Clinton had been a man, she would have won that election going away?

GINSBURG: There are so many things that might have been decisive, but that was a major, major fact -- factor.


WILLIAMS: Now, I am afraid to do this, but you know, you've got to do it. So Jesse, is it the case that sexism decided this election?

WATTERS: What? I just fell asleep listening to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Wow, that was electrifying. And with Charlie Rose, too, the two of them. They should really go on tour together.

No, listen, she might have a point about sexism, but it might be the opposite point. What if Hillary benefited from sexism? What if more women voted for Hillary because she was a woman that wouldn't have otherwise?

And I don't think -- I don't think the country is sexist. And you can never quantify that either. Because what, someone in a legal polling booth and tell a pollster, "Yes, I don't want a woman in the White House," it will never happen. So it's pie in the sky.

A lot of women besides Hillary could run and probably get elected in this country. Oprah, Michelle Obama's popularity is, like, 80 percent. Marissa Mayer at Google, Diane Sawyer. I think there's a lock for the Democratic nominee.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes. But they haven't been attacked.

WATTERS: Well, I mean, I'll do some damage if she's the nominee, trust me. I'm saying, like, there's a lot of great women out there that could probably overperform Hillary.

GUILFOYLE: And on the other side, too: Condoleezza Rice, you know, for the Republicans.

WATTERS: Her name is out there. She's a great candidate.

WILLIAMS: All right. Greg, I mean, you watched Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and I know that you took her so seriously. I want to hear what you think.

GUTFELD: That was an amazing -- I mean, Charlie Rose and Ruth Bader Ginsburg talking to each other is amazing. It's like being at the early bird special at the Ground Round or something.

I don't know. Sexism did play a role. But it -- it helped Hillary get as far as she did. If Hillary wasn't female, there probably would have been a President Sanders or a nominee Sanders.

BASH: Or Biden.

GUTFELD: Or Biden. But she got it because she was owed it. It was her turn.

WATTERS: Her turn.

GUTFELD: It was her turn, her time. She had to be the historical first. And that created a shield around her, not from the Republicans but from her allies who could not criticize her. So you couldn't come after her, because she was the woman candidate. She deserved it.

GUILFOYLE: Her time.

GUTFELD: And it allowed women to help cheat her -- heat with her. Like, you had women giving her questions, because we're sisters. "Hey, this is - - I'm going to help you out here. I'm not going to help Sanders. I'm going to help you out with the questions for the debate."

GUILFOYLE: ... e-mails, the whole thing.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second, wait a second. You guys, you don't give any credence to the idea that it's difficult for a woman politician to win office?

PERINO: He said there was. You said there was some sexism.

GUTFELD: Yes but no. That's what helped her get as far. So I'm disagreeing. No, I think that it's easier now for a woman to run for office It's easier now for minorities to run for office than ever before.

WILLIAMS: Oh, well, that's true but I think that there is also, especially, among Republicans, conservatives, traditionalists, if you will, a real resistance. Like "I'm not sure..."

PERINO: But don't you think Sarah...

WATTERS: Well, not going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

PERINO: ... think Sarah Palin could say the same? That sexism played a role in her being attacked and that campaign not being successful?

GUILFOYLE: I don't think that's fair to label conservative Republicans and men and say that they would be sexist and not want to support a woman candidate. I think they want to support a strong candidate that holds their values, that's fiscally conservative, that believes in smaller government and supports our military. I mean, that...

WILLIAMS: So one last point to you then, Kimberly.


WILLIAMS: When you hear President Trump, as a campaigner, say "nasty woman" or talk about grabbing women, don't you think, "Well, gee, if I'm an evangelical, I don't think I can" -- but guess what? They went for President Trump.

GUILFOYLE: I'm sure that they didn't like that, that that wasn't -- they didn't feel it was appropriate. But maybe they believed, still on balance...

PERINO: On policy.

GUILFOYLE; ... that he was the best candidate based on his platform and his policies.

GUTFELD: Can I -- just to the point about the autocratic criticism. Which actually, I had mentioned a couple of times when Trump was running. I'm going, "This is a guy that -- he likes strong men. He talked about strong men. There is a possibility."

But when you watch what's happening now, you couldn't be further from the truth. You are seeing more protests, more criticism. Nobody is going to jail. The American public is learning more about checks and balances under Trump than ever before.


GUTFELD: And then when you think about under Obama, a filmmaker was put in jail.


GUTFELD: Journalists were investigated. FOX News journalist James Rosen. We had people -- that happened under Obama.

Under Trump, we know everything that's going on, because he's telling us everything.

WATTERS: And didn't Hillary tie up reporters? I remember seeing them all roped off.


GUILFOYLE: Isn't that funny?

GUTFELD: I think Bill did that, too, but that was at a party.

GUILFOYLE: That was consensual (ph).

WILLIAMS: I think you forget about the president's anxiety and anger at leaks at the moment in the investigations that are ongoing.

GUTFELD: But he's not doing anything about it.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's an investigation. He's got Sessions on it.

Ahead, North Korea is apparently stumped by President Trump. My man Gregory's monologue next.


GUTFELD: Side shots just depress me.

GUILFOYLE: I like them.

GUTFELD: It's bad.

So North Korea is started to sweat. Officials from that hermit hellhole have been reaching out to American experts to learn more about our president. According to The Washington Post, they contacted people who've worked under previous administrations.

Now, why would they do that? Are they curious or are they scared? Do they think maybe Trump could be reasoned with or do they wonder if he might push a button? The point is: They don't know. We don't know. I don't know. Who knows? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. And that's great. Nobody knows anything. It's like MSNBC.

Yes, if there's one promise that Trump really nailed, it's keeping our foes guessing. So now you have a tyrannical regime whose country is literally in the dark, now in the dark even more on Trump.

It's the odd charm of the president. His thoughts are well-known: He tweets about them daily. But his actions are unpredictable. He really is the guy at the end of the bar you don't want to tick off or make eye contact. And it's not that this guy might be nuts. It's that he means business and may be nuts. How refreshing is that to have the bad guys worry about us for once…


GUTFELD: ... rather than the reverse?

The question, "What if Trump is crazy?" now replaces "What if Kim Jong-un is crazy?" So now they're the ones wandering around town, frantically asking questions about the new sheriff, wondering if he will really shoot first.

If they asked me, I'd say yes but really, who knows?

OK, Dana, just a policy question. Are you allowed to take meet -- like, if the North Koreans contact you, Dana Perino, because you worked -- and they want -- would you take that meeting?

PERINO: If the government -- like a government official?


PERINO: I would -- I would take the meeting and call the State Department...


PERINO: ... at the same time. And I might even call before and say, "These guys have asked to meet with me. Do you want me to meet with them? I can. And you know, can I be helpful to you?"

I read the New Yorker cover story a couple weeks ago by Evan Osnos, I think is how you pronounce his name. It was fascinating. He got to go to North Korea with two handlers from the U.N.


PERINO: They take him there and, at every turn, they -- because their job is to explain Trump to Kim Jong-un...


PERINO: So instead of just basically taking him around to see all the sights, they keep asking him, "This thing in the paper here."

GUTFELD: Yes, yes, yes.

PERINO: "Is this normal?"


PERINO: And the reporter ends up being the one trying to explain. It's pretty interesting.


PERINO: I recommend the article.

GUTFELD: No one will read it. But anyway, Jesse, why do they need a call if they have Dennis Rodman? Don't you think Dennis Rodman, who's a friend of Trump, would already have insight into this, you know, interesting leader?

WATTERS: Yes. I'd say send Rodman back.


WATTERS: And needs to have him not come back.

Listen, the North Koreans and the Americans have something in common. We both can't understand Trump. He's just being unpredictable.


WATTERS: And he's keeping them on their toes, and that's a new challenge for the North Koreans. They're used to having to interpret, you know, this coded diplomatic language. And now the best part of the article is they have these experts at Trump tweets. And they can recite years and years of Trump tweets. And they have an encyclopedic knowledge of it. It's fantastic.

Meanwhile, Trump is just up there on Air Force One, knocking out tweets to Rocket Man in between taco bowls, and he's, like, throwing them for a loop. It's fantastic. I love it. I think it's great. They're finally off balance in North Korea.

GUILFOYLE: Dan Scavino, type this. Get this out there.

WATTERS: Yes, yes, yes.

GUTFELD: You've got to admit, Juan, it's good to keep your foes second- guessing. Right? You do that -- you do that, I'm sure.

WILLIAMS: Is that right? I don't know. I hope so. I don't know.

You know what? It would be nice. It would be nice, since we are the big boys; we're the super power, if in fact, people just have confidence in what we do.

It's so interesting to me, though, that they would do this. And by the way, it wasn't they were just going to every American or politician or expert. They were going to Republicans.


WILLIAMS: They wanted Republicans. And I guess they think Republicans more intimate, more knowledge. Of course, after Alabama, I don't know. I don't know if that's the case.

But to me, you know, it's so telling -- and this is contrary to my thought, so I'll just tell it to you, because I'm going to be fair -- that when the U.S. flew those fighter jets high in the sky over South Korea but close to North Korea, no response. Just a threat from the North Koreans.


WILLIAMS: As if, you know, we talk about how they are quick to anger.


WILLIAMS: Their whole -- they're not exactly being so quick at the moment. So I don't know.

GUTFELD: I think -- I think you just said that Trump is doing a fantastic job, in a very subtle way.

WILLIAMS: You see why I can't be fair? Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: So Kimberly...


GUTFELD: ... if North Korea contacted you, what would you tell them? If they said, "Can you tell us something? Can you tell us about..."

GUILFOYLE: OK, everyone thinks they won the lottery. What would I -- I would obviously contact the government, like Dana said, and the State Department.

GUTFELD: But what would you tell them? If you wanted to give an honest...

GUILFOYLE: Tell them?

PERINO: I love this question.

GUTFELD: If you would give advice to -- like, if North Korea goes, "What can you tell us of Trump? What do we need to know?" what would you say? Would you go, like...

PERINO: Give up your nuclear weapons.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, give up your nuclear weapons. This will please him. You want to talk to him, talk to him early in the morning or late at night when he's best. Like, you know, usually like Friday after the end of a long week and when he's up on the plane.

WATTERS: Compliment the wall.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, compliment the wall. Say it's big and beautiful. Tell him that he's like President Reagan.

GUTFELD: Yes. And there's a very big crowd out there.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and use words like "tremendous." Tremendous and -- yes.

Look, they are spending all of this time trying to understand him. But you know, I think -- Juan, I think you're right, OK? Let's go on the record here. Because I think he's actually doing a good job handling them, because this just is proof that they are, like, befuddled by the whole situation.

What North Korea wants, they want President Trump to forget that Otto Warmbier was tortured and essentially murdered by them.


GUILFOYLE: And they want to be recognized with the prestige nationally, internationally of a nuclear power. So they're frustrated, because they feel that the United States is, one, building coalitions against them. Two, President Trump is not afraid to call them out. They're getting the sanctions. Usually, they're used to people kissing their bootay and giving them what they want.

GUTFELD: Watch your mouth! All right.

GUILFOYLE: But it's true.

GUTFELD: It is true. Bootay.

Coming up, Twitter is doing something crazy, or maybe it's a good thing. Who knows? That's next.


PERINO: The best part about Twitter: 140 characters. Short, sweet and to the point. The worst part: this crazy idea by Twitter to expand the count to 280 characters.

Let's ask the former editor for his thoughts on this. Greg, you -- you're good at the pithy, witty, 140-character tweets.

GUTFELD: I don't like -- well, OK. There's no product on earth that so many people use and despise themselves for using it. It really is social pornography, is what Twitter is becoming. It makes you feel dirty inside.

The problem with this thing, doubling the size of a tweet is it doubles the chances of my firing by giving me twice the amount of space to screw up when I'm drinking. Because I'll sit there, and I mean, it's like -- I sit there, and I try to edit. But if I don't edit, I'm going to say something really bad, and then Sean Hannity is going to be mad at me.

PERINO: I think it's bad for President Trump. Because he has a rhythm with his tweets. You can remember the tweets, and they're funny. If you add -- if you double the length, it's just going to be not as good.

GUILFOYLE: Then it will be like "Sad," exclamation point. "Sad, sad, sad."

PERINO: So very sad.

GUTFELD: Do not double the length.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think that's the whole point, is the brevity of it. And now, then, it's going to be even more time editing, Greg.


GUILFOYLE: So you have, like, less -- half the time now to even be able to be offensive.

PERINO: Well, another controversy about this, Jesse, is whether Twitter should just try to get rid of the bots, which I think so. But should they add an "edit" function? Because you know, if you tweet something that has a misspelling, you can't go in and fix it, like you can on Facebook. Adding another 200 -- another 140 characters means you can just mess up a lot more.

WATTERS: Yes, I'm pro-bot. Bots love me, so I want to keep the bots. And apparently, the bots cost Hillary the election, so that's another reason to keep the bots alive.

You want to spell check your tweets? Is that what you're saying?

PERINO: Well, I want a chance to go back and fix them, if I...

WATTERS: Now, Dana, once you push "send," you push send. Jump off that bridge, baby.

PERINO: Covfefe. Covfefe.

WILLIAMS: Well, you could do what Trump did, you know, with Luther Strange this week.

WATTERS: Just delete the tweets.

WILLIAMS: Get them out of here. But Dana...

PERINO: Are you pro-expansion or ...?

WILLIAMS: I don't give a hoot. I mean, I just stopped -- I don't play that game. But I will say...

WATTERS: Yes, stay off Twitter, Juan. You don't want to go there.

WILLIAMS: I don't want to do it. So from what I've read, though, this is an experiment.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: Like, it's not everybody right now. They've got a very select audience, and it may be that part of their audience is Dana Perino. And if Dana doesn't like it...

PERINO: Right. I don't like it, and I also don't like the heart for the like button. Go back to the star, and everything will be fine. We'll get along just fine.

GUTFELD: I just -- I hate the whole place.

PERINO: You're done?

GUTFELD: Yes, I think I'm done. I think I'm going to walk away after my new book comes out.

PERINO: Yes, right. That's true.

All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing."

So I want to give you a little bit of an update on Puerto Rico. We've been covering it on this show. And to let you know, you know, one of the major issues that we've discussed is that only 11 of the island's 69 hospitals have fuel and power in addition to a lot of those professionals leaving for the mainland during the economic, you know, crisis there.

But thankfully, people are stepping up to help these patients, and our very own Dr. Manny Alvarez is there to provide medical assistance. Geraldo is there reporting and the American rapper known as Pitbull lent his private jet to Puerto Rico to transfer cancer patients from the island to the United States so that they can continue their chemotherapy treatment. He just said, "Thank God we're blessed to help. I'm just doing my part."

In addition, Mark Cuban lent the Dallas Mavericks team plane to one of his players, J.J. Barea, who's Puerto Rican, and they delivered supplies to his hometown where he and his wife raised up $140,000 to help the people of Puerto Rico recover. And as we reported, the president is on his way there, as well, next week.


WATTERS: That's great.

I want to say happy birthday to my man T-Roy, "Swamp People" star down in Texas. Hurricane Harvey ruined alligator season, but he salvaged it a little bit and went out there and got some nice gators. There he is with a bug 10-footer, it looks like. Unbelievable guy, happy birthday. Eighty never looked so good.

GUILFOYLE: Happy birthday, T-Roy. He sent me a picture of one. He's going to make something for me of one of them.

WATTERS: Yes, he wants to have you down in the swamp, J.J.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Greg. Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Thank God they saved the alligator season.

WATTERS: He makes a lot of money.

GUTFELD: I know, of all the things. That's -- let's go to this.


GUTFELD: "Greg's Sedentary News"


GUTFELD: As you know...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Roll the tape.




GUTFELD: As you know, ever since we were at 9 p.m., I -- my eating habits just went to pot, and I truly became a fat cat. This is me lounging, watching "Hannity" when I get home around 10:30. I just watch "Hannity." I eat a big bucket...

GUILFOYLE: He's on at 9 now.

GUTFELD: Nine, but he was on at 10 after us. And I just sit there, and I'd just be so -- I would be full of food and self-loathing. Look at me, how sad I am right now. But that's going to change now that we're at 5.

GUILFOYLE: Very honest self-reflection. And that is the first step for your recovery.

And it looks like Juan? I can't see.

WILLIAMS: So big sports news today. Rick Pitino, the legendary coach at the University of Louisville, is out. This comes after Pitino faced charges from the federal government of taking money, redirecting money from Adidas and agents to get two high school prospects to play for his team.

In addition, the athletic director at the university also put on paid leave.

And on top of that, if that's not enough, you have federal bribery and fraud charges now being brought against several coaches. Arizona, Auburn, Oklahoma State, University of South -- Southern California. Tragic day for American basketball.

PERINO: Not good.


PERINO: All right. So I'm going back to the Dog Video Awards with Jesse. Because check this little Vizsla out. It's not actually Jasper. This is Steve Jarvis' (ph) Vizsla. This guy goes by "@SteveGuy." What happens is the little girl sprays water on the fence, and the dog just goes crazy for it. And I love watching this video.

But I'll tell you what. If you like Vizslas, and you liked that "One More Thing," you're going to love the show on Friday.

GUILFOYLE: Beautiful. I love it. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next and Dana at 10.

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