This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," April 2, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Thank you, Tucker.
Welcome to the special edition of 'Hannity: America's Illegal Immigration Crisis.' I'm Katie Pavlich in Sean.
Tonight, for the hour, we'll focus on this growing problem that our country's leaders have failed to address for decades. President Trump is trying to fix these repeated failures by pushing forward border walls and stricter immigration laws while liberals are openly defying his administration on and the federal government. California, of course, is leading the way by fully embracing its sanctuary state status, but cracks are starting to show with some California counties and municipalities pushing back against the state's lawlessness.
We're going to cover all of that later tonight. But first, we start with President Trump slamming Mexico for not doing enough to prevent caravans of asylum-seeking migrants from heading towards American southern border.
Ed Henry has the latest from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Katie, good to see you.
The big picture here is that President Trump is trying to fire up his political vase, which propelled him to victory in 2016 in large part because of the fact that he focused so hard on illegal immigration. It's another issue that could come up obviously in the midterms and fire up conservative voters at a time when Republicans have an uphill battle.
And so, Democrats tonight are scuffing about all the president tweets about this caravan. But, in fact, that caravan is giving the president a lot of grief. It's about 1,100 people fleeing Central America. They were organized by the pro-migrant rights group People Without Borders. The name alone shows this nonprofit and their agenda is dramatically opposed to this administration.
It started out in Honduras then left the southern tip of Mexico on about March 25th, traveling over 1,000 miles by foot, boss, cargo, train, whatever they could get. They first want asylum in Mexico but at least some of them want to come to the United States. That drew the president's ire on Easter Sunday, as he walked into church with the first lady, amid a report in BuzzFeed that Mexican immigration officers are simply monitoring this caravan from afar because of its large size, rather than figuring out who has a valid passport and who doesn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mexico has got to help us at the border. If they're not going to help us at the border, it's a very sad thing between two countries. Mexico has got to help us at the border. And a lot of people are coming in because they want to take advantage of DACA. And we're going to have to really see.
We have a great chance, the Democrats blew it. They had a great, great chance but we'll have to take a look.
But Mexico has got to help us at the border. They flow right through Mexico. They step into the United States. It can't happen that way anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, PolitiFact noted that its misleading to conflate the caravan with DACA, because only people who have lived in the U.S. since June of 2007 were illegal for DACA, though we have seen illegal immigrants find ways to get all kinds of other benefits in California and other states, which is what the president sent this series of tweets, including a demand that Senate Republicans kill the 60-vote filibuster barrier on legislations so he can get the wall and other key priorities with just 51 votes, a simple majority.
Then tonight, the president sent these tweets, one saying: As ridiculous as it sounds, the laws of our country do not easily allow us to send those crossing our southern border back where they came from. A whole big wasted procedure must take place. Mexico and Canada have tough immigration laws, where is ours are an Obama joke, he tweeted. Act, Congress.
He then added: Honduras, Mexico, other countries, the U.S. is very generous to, sends many of their people to our country through our weak immigration policies. Caravans are heading here, he said. Must pass tough laws and build a wall. Democrats allow open borders.
Now, Democrat Dianne Feinstein did not take kindly to a lot of this today, saying that it's not fair for the president to be blaming Democrats for no DACA deal. In fact, the president saying today that DACA is dead.
Feinstein insists she can support funding for the wall but the president walked away saying, quote: President Trump is absolutely wrong on DACA. He unilaterally rescinded DACA for no reason and has rejected every other single bipartisan proposal that will protect Dreamers from deportation. It's simply false to say the Democrats walked away from the table.
Now, we should not the president also threatened again in the last 24 hours to kill NAFTA, that controversial trade deal, unless Mexico gets serious about the border -- Katie.
PAVLICH: Thank you, Ed. Lots to unpack there.
Joining us with more reaction from the Center for Immigration Studies, Mark Krikorian, and Fox News national security strategist, Sebastian Gorka.
Mark, I want to start with you first. What is this caravan and who are these people coming to our country?
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: They are a group of a thousand or so illegal immigrants mostly from Honduras who have been organized by a U.S.-based group, San Diego-based organization, that basically is an anti-borders group. So, what we are seeing here is a kind of test or challenge of the administration's willingness to enforce the law.
And there are two things that I think need to happen. The administration needs to make clear these people will not get past the border or if they get in, they're not going to get into the interior of the country. If that requires a tent city to be set up on the border, whatever it is, they have to be kept where they are to send the message that this is not going to work.
The other thing -- and this is something Congress has to do -- as it is now, if you are an illegal immigrant and walk up to our immigration inspector at a border, and say, hi, I want to claim political asylum, we have to take that seriously and let you in while we do that case.
KRIKORIAN: Instead, we need the law to change so that anyone who passes through a country that has its own asylum system, like Mexico, doesn't even get to apply. They just say, sorry, try Mexico. That's where you should have sought refuge, you are supposed to look forward in the first country you are not being persecuted in.
PAVLICH: So, Dr. Gorka, this has been framed as asylum seekers coming to America because they feel like they are being persecuted. The group that organized this is called People Without Borders, obviously, a leftist progressive group trying to make some kind of political statement.
But can you give us perspective on how this isn't just an immigration or illegal immigration issue, this is a broader, more comprehensive issue for the sovereignty of the country?
SEBASTIAN GORKA, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGIST: Absolutely, Katie. Absolutely.
So, you know, whether it's crushing ISIS, whether it's tariffs on aluminum or steel, or whether it's the wall, the Trump doctrine, the 'Make America Great Again' doctrine, is built on the platform of national sovereignty. And this is the most obvious one.
I know this will make liberal minds explode, but guess what? No foreign national has a right to come to America. No one does. If we don't have borders, the word 'America' ceases to have meaning.
We now know, thanks to the leaked speech that Hillary gave during the campaign, that her wish was to have a borderless hemisphere, meaning no borders from Canada all the way down to Central and South America. In that case, America ceases to exist, but these people -- Hillary may have lost but the ideologues, the ideological activists, haven't given up.
And this is a direct threat to national security because you can't have a porous border and keep Americans safe. It doesn't matter whether these people want asylum. That border is there to protect us from drugs, from coyotes, from illegal weapons and guess what, from terrorists as well.
PAVLICH: Mark, I want to go back to the point that you brought about how the law in America is actually working against us here. If an illegal alien is from Mexico or Canada, we can send them back. But if they are from Honduras, El Salvador, a number of other countries, we have to then put them into our court system, give them a court date, which the majority of them do not show up to.
So, how can Congress act, as the White House has called them on to do today, to change this so we have more control of who comes in and out of the country?
KRIKORIAN: Well, I mean, the difficulty in sending illegal immigrants back who aren't from Mexico or Canada, obviously mostly from Mexico, it's not that many Canadians sneaking across the border, is that with a Mexican, we just take them to the border, the Mexican authorities work with us. They do actually cooperate with us pretty well and we just send them right back.
If it's going to be anyone beyond that, Central America, or Africa, Asia, anything, those people need travel documents, passports, they got to be flown there, al of that stuff. And a lot of countries basically drag their feet or simply refused to take people back.
PAVLICH: But, Mark, what about this fact that coyotes, or drug cartels, or even maybe corrupt members of government that these migrants are passing through on their way to the U.S., are being trained to say that they are seeking asylum because they feel like their lives are endangered. What about changes to the law like the Trafficking Victims Protection Act? Obviously, that law had good intentions as it was implemented in 2008, but now we are seeing it being abused over and over again. For example, it was abused in 2014 during the child immigration crisis then.
How can Congress work today to actually make sure that people can just say they are seeking asylum when there is no background check for that to prove that they're actually here for that reason?
KRIKORIAN: And, unfortunately, there's no way to prove that really because it's not as though somebody persecuting you is going to send you an affidavit saying, yes, I persecuted you. But that law you referred to, the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, is for people who are minors, and who are trafficked.
Now, it's a jargon term but if you're smuggled, that means you are doing it voluntarily. You paid, maybe your parents paid you to be smuggled.
Trafficked is some kind of coercion or trickery. You are being used for sex slavery or something like that. The Obama administration used the law, that as you suggested, is a well-intentioned law, but misused it and said, well, these people are all being traffic so we will let them all in.
That points to a problem that Congress can't see and fix every eventuality. It does sort of matter who implements the law. If you have an administration like the Obama administration, they're going to take whatever law, however it's written, and distorted and interpreted anyway they want.
Dr. Gorka, Congress doesn't want to seem to move on anything when it comes to illegal immigration, criminal aliens. What can the president to in terms of his leverage here with Mexico? He threw out the idea of NAFTA being a negotiating peace, to encourage Mexico to help us stop illegal immigration into the United States from the southern border. What do you think that he's going to do moving forward to make sure that people are remind this is a hot issue during the 2016 presidential campaign, and it's a big reason why he won?
GORKA: Yes. So, it's not that Congress isn't doing anything. Half of them are actually making it easier to undermine on national sovereignty.
Let's just look at the recent hubbub on the census. The Democrats were screaming blue murder because we want to know if you're here as a citizen or not, and then they shouted, but that's going to lead to voter suppression. What does that mean, Katie? Whose votes are we going to suppress if we ask if you're a citizen or not? Only one group of people, illegal aliens.
So, you know, half of Congress wants to see these waves. The Democrats are losing the white vote in America, the middle class, the working class vote. They think the Hispanic vote is the future. So they are actively undermining the president and our national sovereignty.
The president could do a lot of things with his executive orders. We've got to stop the catch and release. We've already seen more than a 70 percent decrease in illegal migration across the southern borders.
So, you know, allowing our Customs and Border Patrol to do their job helps a lot. But it's not enough.
PAVLICH: Mark, isn't this a test for the Trump administration in terms of how they react here? Because they know this group of 1,000-plus people is coming. I think the way that they react is probably going to be watched by a number of other people who are may be planning on pulling one of these political stunts, as well.
KRIKORIAN: Absolutely. This is probably the most important aspect of what we are seeing with this caravan, is that it is test and an opportunity for the administration. Are they going to react the way, say, Angela Merkel did? Or the way Jimmy Carter did years ago, when Cubans started to being let out by Castro, and essentially result in a -- bring about a kind of avalanche of illegal immigrants?
Or will the administration draw the line and send that message, this is not going to be tolerated, you are not going to get into the United States if you pull this kind of stunt? So, it's going to be -- I hope they pass, obviously. I think they probably will pass the test.
But it's an important opportunity for them to send the message that it's not just bluster, there's actually something behind the bluster that we really are going to enforce our borders.
PAVLICH: Right. Well, Dr. Gorka, last word to you. But it's very clear that the bottom line is we have no idea who these people are, where they are coming from, what their history is. There are big questions about the protections of Americans here at home on thousands of people are just walking over the border.
GORKA: Yes, Katie, look, very simple. The United States is a house. It has a front door. You lock your door when you go to sleep at night.
We have a right to control who comes into our house. That's what the president is doing. I have a word for all these nations that are complicit in undermining our national sovereignty -- Donald J. Trump is not a president do you want to test.
PAVLICH: All right. Well, Dr. Gorka, Mark Krikorian, thank you so much.
KRIKORIAN: Thank you.
GORKA: Thanks, Katie.
PAVLICH: Coming up, if you thought California's dangerous actions on illegal immigration couldn't get worse, think again. We'll tell you what Governor Jerry Brown just did that has President Trump fired up, as this special edition of 'Hannity' continues.
PAVLICH: Welcome back to the special edition of 'Hannity.'
America's illegal immigration crisis. On Friday, California Governor Jerry Brown granted a series of pardons and commutations, including pardons for five ex-convicts facing possible deportation.
In reaction, President Trump tweeted over the weekend, quote: Governor Jerry 'Moonbeam' Brown pardoned five criminal illegal aliens whose crimes include, one, kidnapping and robbery, two, badly beating wife and threatening a crime with intent to terrorize, three, dealing drugs. Is this really what the great people of California want?
Joining us now live from Los Angeles with more, Trace Gallagher -- Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Katie, the president's tweet is clearly taking aim on how California has downplayed Governor Brown's pardoned of criminal illegal immigrants.
For example, the governor's office says the majority of those pardoned were convicted of drug related offenses and nonviolent crimes. Badly beating your spouse isn't exactly nonviolent, neither is kidnapping, robbery, or use of a firearm. Stealing a car may be nonviolent but it's not jaywalking. And law enforcement officers will tell you that saying eight convicted drug dealer has a drug-related offense is a bit of sugar coating.
The governor's office also says these illegal immigrants have changed their ways, which very well might be true but it's also true that they fall under homeland security's definition of criminal aliens.
And the list of counties and cities that may opt out of California's sanctuary loss is about to get longer. On Wednesday, the city of Escondido, northeast of San Diego, which is 50 percent Latino, will consider whether to join the Trump administration lawsuit against California. And on April 17th, San Diego County will discuss this a matter in a closed-door session.
Last month, the southern California of Los Alamitos voted to join the Department of Justice lawsuit and so did Orange County, and now Orange County Commissioner Sean Nelson explains part of the reasoning. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWN NELSON, R, ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: What California's laws are requiring is our sheriffs not even cooperating, which is resulting in people who have committed crimes ending up on the streets of every county, but certainly Orange County. We got involved because we don't think that's right. We are tired of this state trying to use these arguments to prevent us from keeping the citizens safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And even though Contra Costa County in the San Francisco Bay Area hasn't opted out of this state to sanctuary law yet, the sheriff is cooperating with immigration agents by posting the release dates of jail inmates, including those inmates in the country illegally -- Katie.
PAVLICH: Trace, thank you very much.
Joining us now with the reaction is that man challenging Governor Brown, California GOP gubernatorial candidate John Cox.
Mr. Cox, thanks so much for being here tonight. We appreciate it.
JOHN COX (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Katie. Great to be with you.
PAVLICH: How do you explain the anarchy in California? It seems like things are falling apart at the seams. The government in Sacramento is being pushed back on come, rightfully, by these local communities. How are you going to change this if you win the governorship?
COX: I applaud Orange County, I applaud my home county of San Diego for standing up to this. I mean, this is typical of the politicians who are running the state into the ground, Katie. Their first job ought to be to keep the residents of this state safe.
I'm getting involved, I'm leading the charge, to talk to other counties as well around the state about standing up for this, because the voters elect their county and state officials to protect them. That's the first job of government is to do that.
And the idea that Jerry Brown picks Easter weekend to pardon people that have committed crimes or let out of jail very recently, Katie, this isn't like these are people that served their time 30 years ago and have been upstanding members of the community. Quite the contrary. These -- a lot of these crimes were committed in 2003, 2004, 2005 --
COX: -- and they have recently gotten out of jail. I mean, they're a threat to the community and they're illegal aliens. And the government in this state ought to act to protect the people of the stage.
I'm a businessman, just like President Trump. I solve problems.
PAVLICH: OK. So, what --
COX: I think the president is trying to solve problems and keep people safe.
PAVLICH: your idea of solving the problem? You talk about speaking to these voters in California, but clearly, they are electing people who believe in these sanctuary city policies. So, when you're traveling around to certain parts of California, what are you hearing directly from people on the ground there? What are they saying to you about these sanctuary laws?
And polling shows that Californians don't want to be a sanctuary state. However, these politicians keep getting reelected in these blue counties to pass laws that make it easy for criminals and violent people to get away from law enforcement.
COX: Well, the people are rising up. I applaud the mayor of Escondido, Sam Abed, he's a friend of mine. The people are making their voices known to this, Katie. They are concerned. I mean, look at what Kate Steinle's parents went through.
There is a young woman in Sonoma county who is dead because the sheriff their incident inform ICE when they released a dangerous person out into the population. I mean, this can't happen.
The people of this state have been beaten down by the majority party in the state. We have the highest poverty rate. We have more people on welfare than any other state in the country. Our business climate is horrendous.
Our quality of life is suffering, Katie. We are 50th out of 50, for crying out loud.
COX: I think that people are going to rise up and continue this backlash all the way through November. They want better management. They are going to get it. I'm going to change the state. We're going to turn around and we're going to make it livable.
PAVLICH: If you win, if you win, which would be nice for Republican to win in that stage, just given a track record of Democrats for the last couple of decades, what exactly are you planning to do to work with the federal government to reverse this trend of criminal aliens operating in California? Cartel members operating in cities across that state? How are you going to actually approach that? Not from a talking points perspective, but from an actual managerial perspective of changing that perspective?
COX: I'm going to be meeting with every law enforcement agency in the state about working together.
PAVLICH: And with the feds.
COX: That's what people do when they vote. Absolutely. They want our public officials to work together, federal and state, hand in glove, I'm going to do that as a governor of the stage.
I think that is with the people want to. They don't want this anger and resentment stirred up. They want the law enforced. It's the rule of all that makes this state and this country different, Katie. You know that.
PAVLICH: Absolutely. Well, John Cox, thank you very much.
Joining me now but with more reaction, Foxa News legal analyst Gregg Jarrett, and senior fellow at the London Center for Policy Research, Monica Crowley.
Monica, I'm going to go to you first. California has been destroyed and ruined by leftist policies. This is just another example.
MONICA CROWLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, LONDON CENTER FOR POLICY RESEARCH: Yes. California, once a beautiful state, still a beautiful state, has been ruined over many decades by the left. And now, you have something of a civil war brewing because you have these counties like Orange County that are not going down the same path as Sacramento and Governor Brown saying we're going to enforce these sanctuary laws that make this state into a sanctuary state.
I think enforcement is critical, not just of our immigration laws, but also when you have folks like the Oakland mayor and others in states like California, who refused to enforce the law, and not just that, but put out calls to illegals to duck the law, putting federal agents at risk, putting the communities at risk, putting American citizens at risk.
Those folks should be held to account and laws should be applied to them so that they are held accountable and put up as an example.
PAVLICH: Gregg, the federal government, Justice Department, has filed two lawsuits against California now. One over federal landfill, the other over sanctuary cities. You think that it's time to start actually prosecuting people who are harboring illegal aliens in the state of California?
GREGG JARRETT, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. There is a federal statute passed by Congress which has plenary power over all immigration matters and it says, if you harbor, shield, or conceal somebody here illegally, it's a crime upon conviction, punishable by five years behind bars and if somebody dies as a consequence of your shielding someone, it's life behind bars.
It's about time the Department of Justice started prosecuting sheriffs, mayors, like the Oakland mayor, for violating that law, and in the Oakland mayor's case, for aiding and abetting people during an ICE raid and obstructing justice.
PAVLICH: Monica, the biggest problem with illegal immigration in this country is that there's been no accountability to the law. That is the reason we are in the situation in the first place, because the law has not been enforced for 30 years.
CROWLEY: That's right, by both sides.
CROWLEY: Both parties should be held accountable for the situation we're in right now. The Republicans wanted cheap labor, right, and the Democrats wanted to flood the zone -- the zone bring the country, but particular states like California, flood the zone for electoral purposes so that they could ultimately create a permanent Democrat voting majority.
So, you have both sides basically colluding with each other for different reasons to get us in this predicament. If I had to isolate the single reason why Donald Trump was elected, he was elected for many reasons, improve the economy and so on. But if I had to isolate one reason, I would say build a wall, OK?
CROWLEY: His mantra of building a wall and enforcing America's immigration laws, deporting those who are here illegally, protecting the American taxpayer, protecting the American worker, I would say that is the thing that carried him across the finish line, not just with Republicans and the conservative base, but with the disaffected Democrats as well who have seen their ways is depressed --
CROWLEY: -- who have seen this whole underground economy go to illegal immigration. They want to the borders enforced. They know this country is a country based on the rule of law or should be.
PAVLICH: Well, Gregg, what about the argument, to play devil's advocate, just a little bit, of people saying, well, California is just exercising their federalism and they are allowed to decide what they want to enforce and where they don't want to enforce?
JARRETT: They're not allowed.
PAVLICH: Right. Explain how they are breaking federal law.
JARRETT: Well, they passed laws, sanctuary city laws, and county and state laws, that are in clear violation of the Constitution. Under the Supremacy Clause, you can't pass a law that conflicts with federal law. They have done precisely that.
Look, I grew up in California, spent 30 years there. My family is still there. They are heartbroken over what's happened to the state. And they feel like the state and local officials that have passed these sanctuary laws are not -- they are breaching their duty by failing to protect them.
JARRETT: And that's the number one duty of government as public safety, to protect the citizenry. So, when Brown pardons all these people who had committed crimes, and the recidivism rate is extremely high, he is jeopardizing lives and livelihoods.
Monica, getting back to that issue of the criminal aspect of this. When the Oakland mayor gives heads up to those in her community about how ICE is coming -- they're targeting people with domestic violence, rape convictions, vehicle theft, carrying out violent crimes with a firearm, and yet, still, here we are. And I think people who do live in California, who want a solution to this problem, are starting to feel pretty helpless about the fact that Democrats in California keep getting reelected by people who don't really think that they care about the government actually protecting them from criminal aliens.
MONICA CROWLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, LONDON CENTER FOR POLICY RESEARCH: That's right. This is one of the difficulties with the situation, particularly in deep blue states like California, where you have a nearly monolithic political situation.
So while the people are saying, look, we look to our government basically for one major thing, which is to preserve our safety and security, and our state government, our local governments are not doing that.
So, yes, this is an incredibly serious issue and we -- you know, the illegal immigrants that you described, Katie, those who have been convicted of kidnapping, robbery, homicide, domestic violence, and they are the ones getting pardons by the governor?
CROWLEY: These should be the no-brainer cases, right? It's not like we're talking about the DACA children or something where there is a gray area.
PAVLICH: Right. Yes.
CROWLEY: This is pretty cut and dry. And California still can't handle them properly.
PAVLICH: So Gregg, moving forward as we continue to see these local jurisdictions like Orange County and other cities--
GREGG JARRETT, LEGAL ANALYST, FOX NEWS: Right.
PAVLICH: -- pushing back on Sacramento and saying, no, you have the attorney general of California, Javier Becerra, threatening to arrest the sheriff in Orange County for enforcing and complying with federal law. How do you see this playing out as more and more people go to the community leaders and say, enough is enough? We don't want to be harboring criminal illegal aliens in our communities?
JARRETT: There are two avenues. Civil law and criminal law. You've mentioned the criminal law, let's start prosecuting people. The feds need to prosecute people who are violating the law, officials, sheriff's, police department chiefs.
But civil law, as well. That means withholding federal funds in the federal government has the power to do that and litigating the illegality of these sanctuary laws in federal court. You know, you may lose the first couple of rounds among some liberal district court judges.
But they make mistakes all the time, which is why we have a U.S. Supreme Court. If they were perfect all the time, we would need a Supreme Court. In the end, these sanctuary laws will be struck down.
PAVLICH: All right. Well, thank you both for joining me tonight. I really appreciate it. More to come on that for sure.
But coming up here, the illegal immigration situation on our southern border, the clear and present danger to our country which is law enforcement have the resources to combat it. That and more as the special edition of Hannity continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mexico has got to help us at the border. If they are not going to help us at the border, it's a very sad thing between two countries. Mexico has got to help us at the border.
A lot of people are coming in because they want to take advantage of the DACA. But Mexico has got to help us at the border. They blow right through Mexico, they send them through the United States. It can't happen that way anymore. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: Welcome back to the special edition of Hannity.
America's illegal immigration crisis. President Trump is publicly calling up Mexico and pushing his government to do its part and help secure the border between our two countries. This comes as migrants from Central America are flowing through Mexico into the United States.
Just how bad the situation on our southern border? Joining us now is the president of the National Border Patrol Council and 20-year border patrol veteran Brandon Judd, and former sheriff from Pinal County, Arizona - Arizona is my home state - Paul Babeu. Thank you, gentlemen so much for being here tonight.
PAUL BABEU, FORMER PINAL COUNTY BORDER SHERIFF: Thank you.
PAVLICH: Brandon, I'll start with you. Your reaction on the president calling on Mexico to do more.
BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: He did the absolute right thing. When you look at it, Mexico is actually facilitating -- the government of Mexico is actually facilitating these individuals to come up to our borders and break U.S. law or the sovereignty of the United States.
He should absolutely call on the leaders of the Mexican government to put an end to this. They have very strict immigration laws, yet they are throwing their laws over their shoulder to allow these people to come up and break our laws. That cannot happen.
PAVLICH: Sheriff Babeu, I want to talk to you about the local law enforcement perspective of this. You were in charge of a county, Pinal County which is not a border county--
PAVLICH: -- but it's in a border state, has border county problems. So, talk about how when Mexico allows thousands of people to come through into the United States without stopping them or vetting them, how that affects deputies on the ground.
BABEU: Well, crime. One, you are adding criminal illegals besides it's not just the millions and millions of illegals who are here, many of them are, as President Trump has pointed out, have criminal records in their home countries. Never mind here. And it's figures as high as 30 percent of these millions and millions.
So there is a cost of that, not just in terms of incarceration and law enforcement but also with education, and medical care, it's estimated just for the state of Arizona, your home state, which we are very proud of you, is close to $2 billion every year.
So this is an extreme cost, not just in terms of the social and the law enforcement aspect but in terms of actual dollars and cents. So what's different here is that these aren't just illegals being escorted by coyotes or guides, this is an actual, almost as Brandon pointed out, sanctioned by the government of Mexico, 1,200 potentially marching towards the border.
And even though that may sound like a small number, how we deal with this sent a message to Mexico, to Central America.
BABEU: Because if we accept them as refugees or asylum-seekers, we are going to see tens and tens of thousands replicating this.
PAVLICH: Right. President Trump took a little bit of heat today, Brandon, for saying and arguing that these illegal aliens are coming to the United States to take advantage of DACA. What he should have said as they are coming to take advantage of any kind of amnesty that gets put on the table for people who get their feet on the ground here.
We saw this in 2014 with the child immigration, unaccompanied minor crisis, when people just send their kids up and knew that if they could go there and stay there, they would get sent to a family member in the United States and would never be sent back.
So talk about the fact that when anyone in Washington starts talking about some kind of amnesty, whether it's DACA or the DREAMer program, anything, citizenship, we see an increase of unaccompanied minors, illegal aliens coming across the border, and specifically in the last couple of months, family units making it across hoping to get to stay.
JUDD: All you have to do is go down and speak with the individuals that are impacted. The ranchers. I was out on a tour of the border with Senator Cornyn, Senator Heller, and a couple of other senators a couple of months ago. And we were at a ranch estate.
The owners of the estate specifically said every single time we start talking about immigration reform or an amnesty, we see hundreds of people come across our ranch. They find dead bodies on the ranch all the time.
And the increase is always when we start talking about an amnesty program. We cannot talk about any sort of amnesty, whether that's DACA or comprehensive immigration reform, unless we secure the border first. Once we secure the border, then we can start talking about things so that we don't put ourselves in this same situation 5, 10 years from now. IRCA of 1986 was supposed to fix that problem.
JUDD: And it didn't because they put the cart before the horse. They legalized everybody but they didn't put the border security measures in place. We have to put the border security measures in place first.
PAVLICH: All right. The White House has made it very clear that they want to solve this problem once and for all. They don't want to be dealing with it later on.
But sheriff, I want to talk to you about the human aspect of this.
PAVLICH: Because people who stand up for border security are accused of being inhumane, they're accused of being racist, they are accused of not being empathetic to those who are fleeing violent situations.
But what about the journey here? I've always said that open borders are inhumane borders. I'm sure that you've seen some terrible things as a result of people being told by these coyotes, we'll take care of you, we'll take you through the desert, we'll make sure it happens just fine, and it actually turns out to be a horrific experience for these people.
BABEU: It is. They are victimized. Not only it's brutal because of the barren deserts and they walking days upon days, many of them die, hundreds each year, it's estimated, and they are victimized as well. Not only they are spending their life savings, giving it to these escorts, these coyotes, they are robbing them. They are raping them.
We've had countless cases in my eight years of sheriff's where they have been raped multiple times, these are juveniles. And so, to your point, us and what some liberal say we're not compassionate or we're not being true to our proud of history as a land of immigrants, completely false.
We are the most compassionate, most generous nation still to this day, nearly one million illegal immigrants each and every year that we allow in far an excess of any other nation. So we are proud of that. But we can't just have open borders and whoever wants to get to the border, you're home free. Those where the Obama days and we're done with those.
PAVLICH: Yes. Brandon, sheriff, we are out of time unfortunately. But thank you so much for bringing you on the ground perspective to the show. We really appreciate it.
Well, coming up, President Trump saying that a deal on DACA deal is dead and Democrats are to blame. We'll debate that next on this special edition of Hannity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Democrats have really let them down. They've really let them down. They had this great opportunity. The Democrats have really let them down. It's a shame. And now people are taking advantage of DACA. That's a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: Welcome back to the special edition of 'Hannity.'
That was President Trump earlier today slamming Democrats for their failure to secure a deal on DACa. The president also taking to Twitter this morning, writing, quote, 'DACA is dead because the Democrats didn't care or act, and now everyone wants to get on to the DACA band wagon. No longer works. Must build walls and secure our border with proper border legislation. Democrats want no, hence drug and crime.'
Joining us now, two of my favorites for analysis, CPAC chairman, Matt Schlapp, and from Turning Point USA, the founder, Charlie Kirk. Hello, guys. Thanks for coming on tonight.
CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Great to be here.
PAVLICH: So I'm going to start with you, Matt. To me it looks like the president are shifting away from any kind of talk on amnesty, comprehensive illegal immigration reform, DACA, and completely focusing on border security.
MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, CPAC: Yes, I think there's some truth to that, Katie. I think he is also telling the Democrats that he's not just going to dance forever. Eventually, the music ends. And if they decide -- if they decide they want to just play politics over immigration, not get things done, he's got to focus on what he needs to do.
Now look, if his budget strategy gets him about 1.4 billion per year for the wall, it's going to take a long time, decades longer than his presidency, to ever build this wall. So he's also realizing he has to come up with new strategies, vis-a-vis funding the wall and dealing with Mexico as we continue to have the DACA two, and DACA three, DACA four as more and more people come to the border.
PAVLICH: Charlie, wasn't it obvious that Democrats were never going to give a Republican president a win on DACA because that would take away a political tool for them going into the midterm election on immigration?
KIRK: Precisely. The Democrats never wanted a deal on DACA. In fact, they want to perpetual immigration so they can use these people as political tools, both now and in the future. And look, we are going to have presidents in the future that are going to advocate for tax cuts and get conservative judges.
But President Trump is a once in a generation leader that actually wants to secure the border. From Reagan to Bush, we had Republican presidents in the past that have just said, you know what, we'll have open borders.
And you've seen the incalculable toll that that has done on this country, whether it be $115 billion a year, which is the cost of illegal immigration to the taxpayers. Or 98 percent of all heroin and fentanyl comes across the southern border.
And you're exactly right. The Democrats they don't want to solve this issue. They don't want border security. They want an unlimited illegal immigration. And finally, I always joke around that if illegal immigrants tended to vote more Republicans than Democrats, the Democrats would be saying build a wall and they would have massive deportations all the time.
PAVLICH: Yes, absolutely.
KIRK: They're not being honest in this discussion.
PAVLICH: I'm sure that is true. Absolutely. Matt, going into the midterms, the president has made it a little bit obvious that there is a little concern from Republicans about enthusiasm to get to the polls.
Immigration is a huge reason why he won in 2016, it's a lot of the reason why people switched from the left to the rights because they are fed up with this issue.
PAVLICH: How do Republicans use this now going into the midterms to get people to the polls to say if you want your promises from the president, you are going to have to make sure that the House and the Senate to remain in Republican hands?
SCHLAPP: Yes. Katie, I think that's true. I think basically with the Trump agenda, you ought to keep being aggressive with the agenda. If the policy is right, the politics will take care of themselves. When it comes to this question of immigration, one of the things that nontraditional Republican voters love about the president, is he is willing to speak the truth. He's willing to say it very clearly.
I think at this time in our politics that works very well. It works great for the president. If the Republicans in Congress follow along, I actually think the midterms could be a pretty good night. We're going to do great in the Senate and in these House races, you know, I think at the end of the day, if we get the policy right, the politics will work out.
PAVLICH: Yes. I mean, Republicans have been gaining on the generic ballot as a result of tax reform.
SCHLAPP: That's right.
PAVLICH: And I think that seeing this caravan of 1,000 plus people coming up through Mexico and into the United States because they're not helping us will certainly push that message.
But Charlie, when it comes to the president moving forward, he said today that the Democrats have let DACA recipients down. Politically, is he going to be able to score any points with that crowd of people? Because they are not happy with Democrats either. They stormed to Nancy Pelosi's town hall and surrounded her with chance because she is refused to do anything about this.
KIRK: Yes, he's going to. And look, the president was very generous. In fact, I think he was too generous in offering citizenship on the table for DACA recipients, something that even Obama was wrestling with back, you know, five or six years ago.
But look, here's the thing. When you incentivize bad behavior, you are going to get more of that behavior.
KIRK: And that's why you are seeing these caravans. And look, the window for DACA has passed. If you have a two-year discussion on DACA, you're going to have another three million illegal immigrants come across the southern borders. So you know what? The president's instincts are correct. No more. Build the wall, militarize our southern border, and then we can have a discussion on this.
The Democrats had their chance. But right now the southern border is a national security issue, it's a financial issue, and it's a cultural issue. And I don't think -- I don't think really the media or the Democratic Party is recognizing how significant the toll of illegal immigration is on southern states and also their whole country, whether it be the financial condition--
KIRK: -- or also the crime that has come into our cities. We have to build the wall; we have to secure the border.
PAVLICH: Nut Matt, looking at the calendar, the agenda, you are a political guy. As we saw, DACA couldn't get done even with President Trump's very generous offer on the table.
If the president ended DACA because it was unconstitutional, to do it through the executive branch, how much will actually we be able to get done on the issue of not just illegal immigration and reform, but border security?
SCHLAPP: Yes, I think, Katie, the real question is what will President Trump do with his executive power? The Senate has by and large punted its ability to pass any major legislation because they are not going to do a budget reconciliation.
So really it comes down to the president. From what I can see watching this president, he wants to get stuff done. So my guess is he's going to push the limits of executive power, not to help illegals, but to make sure that we, just as Charlie said, can secure our border.
And I would look in on every issue of the Trump agenda. Be it our relationship with China, be it trade, be in immigration, be it regulations, he is going to put the pedal put to the metal to get this economy going and secure our national security.
PAVLICH: Yes. Well, Charlie, Matt mentioned that he said this is the president likes to get things done. Just last week on Friday, the border patrol gave an update on the wall. They're replacing parts of the wall, building it, they're chosen prototypes that they are putting in.
The president has been frustrated with the fact that Congress only gave him $1.6 billion now and he said he's going to revisit it in September. How do you see this moving forward with the congressional agenda?
KIRK: Look, I mean, to get Congress to do this is nearly impossible. And you know what, they need to be called out. I have to question if the Republican Party, some leaders in the Republican Party actually want this wall to be built.
And look, there is no good argument to not want to secure our border. I'm actually going down to the southern border later this week to go see it myself because I think this is going to be the defining issue--
KIRK: -- of this presidency. I mean, he ran on it, he won on it, and we have to go with that--
PAVLICH: We are running out of time. As we say, we ran on that. So thank you, Matt.
SCHLAPP: Thank you.
PAVLICH: Charlie, thank you very much.
Coming up, more of the special edition of Hannity right after the break. Stay with us.
PAVLICH: Welcome back to the special edition of Hannity. I loved being able to talk to our border patrol Brandon Judd and Sheriff Paul Babeu on the ground perspective. It's super important. You can find me at townhall.com and on Twitter.
Unfortunately, that's all the time we have this evening. Thank you for joining us. Make sure you DVR so you never miss an opportunity to see Sean Hannity. He's back tomorrow. Have a great night. Jason Chaffetz is up next, he's filling in for Laura Ingraham tonight.
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