Trump set to announce US troop drawdown in Afghanistan, Sen. Lindsey Graham says
Afghanistan veterans Sen. Tom Cotton and Jason Church, a retired Army captain who lost his legs in an explosion, react on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," December 16, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
Martha MacCallum, host:
Good evening, everybody. A historic week is kicking off in Capitol Hill, as we get ready to gear up for the vote on the impeachment of President Donald Trump. And the Senate prepares for the trial that would follow. Now, after several iterations of why Democrats went from not wanting to impeach to now having it be really on fast forward, they have settled on imminent fear of foreign meddling in the coming election as the reason for the urgency.
[begin video clip]
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.:
This misconduct goes on, the threat to our election integrity coming up goes on. It’s a clear and present danger, I think, to our democracy.
[end video clip]
[begin video clip]
Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y.:
We cannot take the risk that the next election will be corrupted through foreign interference solicited by the president, which he is clearly trying to do.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
So, there's both chairmen of the relevant committees here. We’re going to dig into that reasoning. Also, tonight, the Wall Street Journal’s Kim Strassel analyzes the Jim Comey/Chris Wallace interview on Sunday. And news coming on a further drawdown of troops in Afghanistan. Senator Tom Cotton is here to weigh in on that. Joining him is retired Army captain, Jason Church, who lost both of his legs in combat while serving in Afghanistan. Now, he wants to be a member of Congress from Wisconsin. Also, tonight, former SNL star Joe Piscopo is joining us. He says, “You know what? Saturday Night Live is getting funny again.” And there is a very good reason for that. He will explain that coming up. But first to the top story as the House readies for impeachment this week, Republican Congressman Mark Meadows, member of the House Oversight Committee joining us this evening. Congressman, thank you very much. Great to have you with us tonight.
Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C.:
Great to be with you, Martha. Thanks.
Mark Meadows:
So, let’s start with the reason for the urgency--
Mark Meadows:
[laughs]
Martha MacCallum:
-- which you heard from Chairman Schiff and from Chairman Nadler. They say that that’s why it has to happen so quickly because the president is just going to do it again, bring in a foreign government to mess with our elections.
Mark Meadows:
Well, the fact of the matter is the president didn’t do that the first time. And it’s through focus groups that they continue to go out and get these focus groups and say, “What can we sell to the American people next?” If the American people are concerned about Ukraine meddling in their election, I can tell you that we had three, not once, not twice, but three different times that my Democratic colleagues voted for impeachment before there was ever a Ukrainian call. So, listen, the narrative continues to change. But one thing doesn’t change; this is all about a political process designed to impugn the president because they can’t beat him at the ballot box.
Martha MacCallum:
So, Chairman Schiff said this about what he sees as the significance and the egregiousness of this moment. Watch this.
[begin video clip]
Adam Schiff:
I don’t think any of us have any question that had Barack Obama engaged in the activity, the conduct, which is the subject of these articles of impeachment, every one of these Republicans would be voting to impeach him. And you know something? I have to hope to hell, George, if it were Barack Obama, I would vote to impeach him.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Do you think that would be the case?
Mark Meadows:
Well, I don’t think it would be the case. And it’s interesting. I’m still waiting on the evidence from Adam Schiff that he said that the president actually colluded with Russia. As you know, he came on Fox and other networks over and over again to say that he had all these concerns and all this evidence. And yet, it didn’t show up. I can tell you this. Here’s what we see, is we see a double standard. There’s not -- they’re not treating this president the same way they treated Barack Obama. In fact, they look the other way when it was Barack Obama sending cash, pallets of cash to Iranians. When you talk about, you know, really thwarting the will of Congress, we see what happened in previous administrations. This president is all about making sure that the American people’s tax dollar is accounted for and I’m glad he’s doing it. And quite frankly --
Martha MacCallum:
All right --
Mark Meadows:
-- most Americans are as well.
Martha MacCallum:
Well, let me ask you this. Because Adam Schiff would like to bring Mick Mulvaney, John Bolton, Robert Blair, the senior advisor to Mick Mulvaney, and Michael Duffy, associate director for national security, in as witnesses. He would like to see them as witnesses when this is on the Senate side. They -- the belief is that they had closer proximity to the parents -- to the president’s actual intentions in the phone call and that they would be able to explain that. So, why not? Why not have them do that?
Mark Meadows:
Well, there’s two different reasons. One, it doesn’t matter what any first-hand knowledge witness says. If they say that the president was innocent, my Democrat colleagues never believe it. You can’t get a better witness than the president of the Ukraine, the number one, and number two guy underneath him in Ukraine saying there was no linkage, there was no -- there was no crime, and yet, they’re wanting to hear from --
Martha MacCallum:
Well, you know what -- you know what the critics would say to you about that, that they needed that money. They needed that aid. They needed that money, they needed that aid, they understood what the deal was, and they’re not about to say that they felt pressed on it.
Mark Meadows:
Well, so, and we can call them liars. But I can tell you that not once, not twice, not three times, but four times, they’ve doubled down on that particular narrative. And so, normally a lie comes out. We get to see that. Here’s what we also know, is when Adam Schiff had the ability to call these witnesses and actually -- and force an impeachment, he didn’t go through the normal process. He didn’t allow the Judiciary to weigh in. Why? Because it’s a rush to impeach the president because they’re afraid November of 2020 will get here, and they will have not been able to impugn as much damage as they possibly could on the president. Listen, the American people see it for what it is. Real Clear Politics average poll now says there’s more people opposed to impeaching the president than support it. That’s moving in the president’s direction and it’ll continue to do that.
Martha MacCallum:
All right. I want to play this -- this is what the president said about Rudy Giuliani going back to Ukraine and then coming to him the other day to report on what he learned. Here’s the president.
[begin video clip]
Reporter Question:
How much has Giuliani shared with you about his recent trip to Ukraine?
President Donald Trump:
Not too much. But he’s a very great crime fighter. He was the best mayor in the history of the city of New York. He’s a great person who loves our country. And he does this out of love, believe me. He does it out of love. He knows what he’s doing.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Do you agree with that, Congressman?
Mark Meadows:
Well, I think that Rudy Giuliani, obviously, believes that he’s got enough evidence there. But let me circle back to something that you said earlier, Martha. And I think that this is a key telling point for my Democrat colleagues. They said they hoped if it were Barack Obama, they would do it. But God forbid it’s Joe Biden, they don’t want to look the other way. Over a dozen contacts between Joe Biden and President Poroshenko at the particular time when his son was on the board of a corrupt company. And yet, they’re not willing to even look at it. They say it’s debunked without even investigating it. I think the American people deserve to know the truth. And whether it’s Rudy Giuliani or anybody else getting there, I think most Americans believe that Hunter Biden was making a lot of money that he shouldn’t have been making --
Martha MacCallum:
We’re going to talk about that --
Mark Meadows:
-- based on his testimony.
Martha MacCallum:
-- in the next segment as well. Justin Amash, will he or should he be an impeachment manager?
Mark Meadows:
Well, I don’t see him being an impeachment manager. I mean, that’s a few freshman Democrats believing that he might bring credibility to this particular argument. I can tell you that Justin made up his mind long before he left the Republican Party. And at the same time, we’re going to have some people on the defense team where the president will finally get a fair shake over in the Senate. It won’t be secret down in the bunker of the Capitol. And he’ll eventually have due process.
Martha MacCallum:
Congressman Meadows, thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight.
Mark Meadows:
Thank you, Martha.
Martha MacCallum:
So, also here tonight, Chris Hahn, former aide to Senator Chuck Schumer and syndicated radio host. Chris, good to have you with us tonight.
Chris Hahn, former Schumer aide:
Great to be here.
Martha MacCallum:
Your thoughts on what the Congressman just had to say?
Chris Hahn:
Well, you know, the Republicans would have impeached Obama for wearing a campaign hat to the Army/Navy game. So, hearing him say that they would have just looked the other way if President Obama asked a foreign leader to investigate one of his political opponent is just such -- it’s so laughable. I tried not to laugh during your interview while I was sitting here. But it’s hilarious to me. These men were preparing impeachment charges against Hillary Clinton before she was even elected.
Martha MacCallum:
They didn’t try to impeach President Obama for starters --
[cross talk]
Chris Hahn:
No, they did not. But, no they did not. But they went crazy --
Martha MacCallum:
[laughs] So -- and he did promise -- he did promise Medvedev that he would go back, you know, “Just give me some time after the election. I’ll give you a little more room on the missile shield,” which put those same countries in Eastern Europe in more danger from Russia.
Chris Hahn:
Yeah, and we don’t really know what they were talking about there. And Obama probably shouldn’t have done that. And the Republicans controlled the Congress that time. And they were investigating --
Martha MacCallum:
Could you say the exact same sentences --
Chris Hahn:
[laughs]
Martha MacCallum:
-- about that Ukrainian phone call? We don’t really know for sure what they were talking about, and there could have been a reason --
Chris Hahn:
We -- we have a full transcript of that phone call.
Martha MacCallum:
I’m just saying --
Chris Hahn:
A full -- a full transcript.
Martha MacCallum:
-- you’ve got a full sound byte from President Obama --
Chris Hahn:
I mean --
Martha MacCallum:
-- and in both situations, I think it looks pretty clear what was going on.
Chris Hahn:
I encourage every single person to read the bottom of page three, and the top of page four of that transcript. And then take that with Ambassador Sondland’s testimony, Vindman’s, Hill’s, put that all together and you’ve got a president who is using his office to try to encourage a foreign power to investigate his political opponents. That is what our founders were most afraid of, foreign interventions in our elections. That is what this is about right now. That’s why the impeachment must go forward. The Senate must take this seriously. I know that you have Justice Roberts [unintelligible] as well --
[cross talk]
Martha MacCallum:
But there’s -- there’s no doubt that, you know, a lot of people in this country, when you look at these polls, absolutely agree with you.
Chris Hahn:
Yep.
Martha MacCallum:
They do not like what they heard on that call, and they don’t like that behavior. Now, there are a lot of people who feel that that is not impeachable.
Chris Hahn:
Right.
Martha MacCallum:
It’s something that they believe that they wish that the president hadn’t gone there --
Chris Hahn:
Yeah.
Martha MacCallum:
-- on the phone call, but they don’t think it’s impeachable. So, how concerned are you, politically, about where this whole thing has gone? And it does -- I mean, it’s really tough to dispute the fact that it feels like it’s being jammed down everybody’s throats very quickly.
Chris Hahn:
Well, you know, look, you can’t -- politics is -- and this country right now is so volatile and so fluid that you can't look at top lines and expect to know what's going on. I, of course, am worried about whatever's going to happen next year. We don't know -- if I was sitting here today and told you I could predict the future, I would be doing a lot better in life than I could. But I will say this. Here's the number I say. Even people who do not think he should be removed, 58 percent in that Fox poll, 56 or 58 percent in that --
Martha MacCallum:
54.
Chris Hahn:
-- Fox News poll said that this was something the president should not be engaged in. I'm not talking about people who said remove. There was a -- that was a high -- a lower number.
Martha MacCallum:
50 -- we have that poll. Let's put it up.
Chris Hahn:
But there was another.
Martha MacCallum:
It's 50 percent is "impeached and removed."
Chris Hahn:
Right.
Martha MacCallum:
So, half. "Impeach and not remove" was another 4 percent.
Chris Hahn:
Right. But there was another number. What did the president engage in activity that he should not have? Was it wrong for the president to ask for this information?
Martha MacCallum:
I think a lot of people would agree with that.
Chris Hahn:
And people -- and this is the thing: I don't understand how Republicans in Congress can't do what Democrats in Congress did during Clinton, say, the behavior was abhorrent, but we're not going to remove him over it.
Martha MacCallum:
That's exactly what Republicans are saying in many, many --
Chris Hahn:
That's not what Mark -- Mark Meadows is saying it's very good.
Martha MacCallum:
-- cases --
Chris Hahn:
This is fine. I mean, you can look at these people and --
Martha MacCallum:
No, that's not true. There's a lot of mixed opinion on that.
Chris Hahn:
Mark Meadows was just here. He's the [unintelligible].
Martha MacCallum:
Look at it and they say, "You know what? That was not what he should have said on the phone call, but we don't think it's impeachable."
Chris Hahn:
Well, you know, that is not the -- the echo you're hearing from major Republicans.
Martha MacCallum:
Well, you're not listening to everybody though.
Chris Hahn:
Well, not everybody. I mean, there are a couple back-benchers that are doing it, and Justice Amash, who was Republican until last year, was absolutely against everything the president's been doing in this -- in office and some of the things that happened even before the Ukrainian problem.
Martha MacCallum:
But that's the point. I thought that was an interesting point that Congressman Meadows made. He said most Democrats who are in favor of impeachment were in favor of impeachment before the phone call even happened.
Chris Hahn:
You know, there were a lot of people who were in favor of impeachment for things that they saw in the Mueller report and other behaviors, including what was going on at the border before the Ukrainian call. But the leadership of the Democratic party resisted that until they had this clear-cut case of abuse of power.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah. Well, judging by the skits on Saturday Night Live, you've lost the Saturday Night Live --
Chris Hahn:
Hey.
Martha MacCallum:
-- because they're making fun of what's going on.
Chris Hahn:
It was a very funny sketch.
Martha MacCallum:
We'll talk about that coming up. Thank you. Good to see you otherwise.
Chris Hahn:
Thank you.
Martha MacCallum:
Thanks for being here. So, days after James Comey claimed total vindication in the wake of Horowitz's report on FISA abuse, he is downplaying his role and what he knew about what was going on. He says, "I was seven layers above those folks who were doing that." Kimberly Strassel up next.
[begin video clip]
Male Speaker
You make it sound like you're a bystander, an eyewitness. You were the director of the FBI while a lot of this was going on, sir.
James Comey, former FBI director:
Sure. I'm responsible for -- that's why I'm telling you, I was wrong.
[end video clip]
[commercial break]
Martha MacCallum:
Days after the IG report confirmed FISA abuses when the FBI investigated the Trump campaign, former FBI director James Comey declared that he was vindicated and claiming that the FBI had done nothing wrong.
[begin video clip]
The Press:
Do you think this is vindication?
James Comey:
It is. I mean, the FBI's had to wait two years while the president and his followers lied about the institution. Finally, the truth gets told. I hope it's not too late. But on all the important things, it tells the truth.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
But then, he sat down with Chris Wallace and changed his tune a bit. Watch this.
[begin video clip]
James Comey:
He's right, I was wrong. I was overconfident in the procedures that the FBI and justice had built over 20 years. I thought they were robust enough. It's incredibly hard to get a FISA. I was overconfident in those, because he's right, there was real sloppiness. 17 things that either should have been in the applications or at least discussed and characterized differently. It was not acceptable. And so, he's right, I was wrong.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Here now, Kim Strassel, Wall Street Journal editorial board member, Fox News contributor, and author of “Resistance at All Costs: How Trump Haters are Breaking America.” Kim, good to see you tonight. Thank you for being here. You know, the thing that --
Kimberley Strassel, WSJ:
Hi, Martha.
Martha MacCallum:
-- that really struck me was that James Comey sort of kept kind of writing off these little, you know, sort of inconsistencies, these little mistakes, they're just sloppiness. There's nothing else behind them, minimizing them. And, you know, I'm not sure that that really adds up. Does that add up for you as just -- just sloppiness, just mistakes?
Kimberley Strassel:
Well, should it surprise anyone that this was how Jim Comey described this report? This is the same guy that, for two years, assured everyone that no one did anything wrong at the FBI, that all the FISA procedures were followed, that the Steele dossier was not really a very central part of the FISA warrant. All incorrect. And so now he comes out and says, "Sloppiness." Of course, that's not what this report was. This report was the inspector general finding that the FBI had deliberately gone around all of the safeguards that have been set up to protect the civil liberties of the United States, which is as big a violation as it gets when you're talking about law enforcement.
Martha MacCallum:
You know, it really struck me, too, that he said, it's incredibly hard to get a FISA -- to get FISA through. That is not true. It is incredibly easy. In fact, they -- they usually sign off on like 80 to 90 percent of the requests. So the FBI goes in there knowing, you know, whatever we put in front of these judges they're going to say yes because, you know, we're investigating scary things, and they don't want to be the person that stopped it. So I thought that was odd, you know, that he would say that, when --
Kimberley Strassel:
Untrue.
Martha MacCallum:
-- when we know that's not the case.
Kimberley Strassel:
It's untrue. Let's just say it, it's untrue. And, look, in fact, it gets to the heart of what we have in the IG report. The entire reason we depend on the FBI to be scrupulously honest in these applications is because it's an acknowledgment that the FISA court pretty much takes them at face value.
Martha MacCallum:
Absolutely.
Kimberley Strassel:
And there's no ex-parte -- right. There is no other side that gets to argue against it. So if the FBI says this is warranted, then the FISA court says it must be warranted. And this is what we found out, is that the FBI decided again to manipulate and deceive the court on that front. So it's --
Martha MacCallum:
And it was, you know --
Kimberley Strassel:
It's very easy to get one of these.
Martha MacCallum:
And then he says, "You know, poor Carter Page. Gee, we're really sorry, yeah. You know, actually we were wrong about that guy. Not a source is very different than is a source. That’s not something that would be just sort of -- you're telling me that's a typo? I mean, that is not a typo. And one other thing I want to ask you before I let you go is with regard to, you know, this whole idea that he was seven layers above. He said, "Oh, I'm like seven layers above. I'm the director. I don't really know what's going on in this thing." But go back to the moment when he decides to send FBI agents to the White House because it's chaotic over there and they can get them in to talk to Mike Flynn. Watch this.
[begin video clip]
James Comey:
Something we -- I probably wouldn't have done or maybe gotten away with in a more organized investigation, a more organized administration, so if the FBI wanted to send agents into the White House itself to interview a senior official you would work through the White House counsel and there would be discussions and approvals and who would be there and I thought it's early enough, let's just send a couple of guys over.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Sounds like he was pretty involved to me, Kimberley.
Kimberley Strassel:
Yeah. In fact, if you go through the report there's all kinds of reasons to wonder about Comey's claim that he was just very distant from this. There's another example in the IG report where the former attorney general, Loretta Lynch, tells the IG that in the spring of 2016 Comey and McCabe went out of their way to pull her aside and tell her that the FBI got a tip on Carter Page and that the Russians might be trying to use him for information. Now, you know, why would he know all about that if he was a guy who was just really distant? So, I think this sounds very convenient now that all the facts have come out.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah. Kimberley Strassel, Wall Street Journal, thank you very much. Great to see you tonight.
Kimberley Strassel:
Thank you.
Martha MacCallum:
Coming up next, Jill Biden comes to the defense of her son shutting down critics who say that it was wrong for him to make money from a Ukrainian gas company while his father was vice president.
[begin video clip]
Jill Biden, former second lady:
Hunter did nothing wrong and that's the bottom line.
[end video clip]
[commercial break]
Martha MacCallum:
Hunter Biden's business abroad has been a topic of his father's campaign that they can't seem to quite shake. His name is now being floated for a potential Senate impeachment trial witness and he's also fighting to keep his earnings from those deals in a paternity case which we've reported on in Arkansas often putting his family's campaign and his own family on defense. Here is Dr. Jill Biden asked about this this weekend.
[begin video clip]
Jill Biden:
I know my son. I know my son's character. Hunter did nothing wrong and that's the bottom line. Our family knew it was going to be tough, but we could never have imagined that it would turn into that Donald Trump would be asking a foreign government to get involved in our election. I think it just proves that he's afraid to run against my husband, Joe Biden.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
And her husband, Joe Biden, when asked about it used basically the same line of thinking. Watch.
[begin video clip]
He's a grown man and it turns out he did not do a single thing wrong as everybody's investigated.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Joining me now, Charlie Kirk, president of Turning Point, U.S.A. He's got a new book coming out, "MAGA Doctrine: The Only Ideas That Will Win the Future," and Richard Fowler, national syndicated radio show host and a Fox News contributor. Gentlemen, welcome to both of you. Charlie, let me start with you. Adam Schiff says that calling Hunter Biden would be a distraction and you say that it is a must. Why?
Charlie Kirk, Turning Point USA:
That's correct. He's critical and he's integral to the entire impeachment conversation. Just to be perfectly clear, without Hunter Biden taking $83,000 a month of a company that basically an industry he knew nothing -- next to nothing about that he got only because of his last name, this entire conversation about Ukraine in general would never have happened. And look, he did do something ethically questionable and the legal experts are still debating whether or not he did something illegal but remember, it was George Kent who testified against President Donald Trump who also first raised the caution and concern with the Obama White House back in 2015. Even he said I don't like the way this looks, and this guy is someone who is against Donald Trump, someone as an impartial, if someone anti-Trump to character testimony in the impeachment. So, Hunter Biden did do something wrong. He got rich using his last name while also the Obama/Biden White House was changing policy in Ukraine.
Martha MacCallum:
All right. Okay. So, Richard, would it make sense -- does it ever happen in any political world anymore for someone to just come forward and say you know what? That was a mistake. That was a lapse of judgment and we should've not done it. He -- we shouldn't have allowed him to do it and but there was, you know, nothing, no policy changes came forward because of it. Why don't they just do that instead of saying it was -- there was nothing wrong with it at all?
Richard Fowler, Fox News contributor:
Listen. I think what we saw in the Hunter Biden interview, he admitted himself that, you know, listen, was this a lapse in character? Absolutely. But I did nothing wrong here. But I want to make a point that Charlie brought up, which I think is a very interesting point, Martha. When he says the reason why we're here is because of Burisma or because of Hunter Biden being on the board proves the argument that Republicans -- that Democrats in the House have been making since the beginning of this investigation. Donald Trump got on that phone on July 25th because he wanted to find out about his political rival and his son and Charlie Kirk just admitted that.
Charlie Kirk:
No, that's not true. That is not true.
Richard Fowler:
That's what you just said.
Charlie Kirk:
Hold on a second.
Martha MacCallum:
Go ahead, Charlie.
Charlie Kirk:
First of all, the only reason this entire thing is happening because the president of the United States was doing his duty to make sure that taxpayer funds they were sending abroad is not going to be used in a corrupt fashion.
Richard Fowler:
Don't change your story now, Charlie.
Charlie Kirk:
But make no mistake. Just because the president of the United States wants to make sure that our taxpayer dollars is spent efficient -- efficiently and ethically doesn't change if that person is running for the presidency or not running for the presidency. That's the first thing. If under that logic --
Martha MacCallum:
Well, that’s the question.
Charlie Kirk:
-- then how’s the House --
Martha MacCallum:
What was the motivation for asking about it? That is what the -- that’s where the debate lies here. And you know what? The American people have to watch this whole story and decide what they think for themselves. Because that is -- I know that that is what is at the heart of this impeachment crush.
Richard Fowler:
Absolutely, Martha. And let me say this, Hunter Biden was on that board in 2014. 2015, 2016, 2017. Donald Trump said nothing about Burisma. It wasn’t until Joe Biden announced his candidacy in 2019 that we heard this term --
Martha MacCallum:
Well --
Richard Fowler:
-- “Burisma” come up.
Martha MacCallum:
-- to be fair, on the other side, that was also the first time that the President had an opportunity to decide whether or not Ukraine should be getting --
Charlie Kirk:
Right.
Martha MacCallum:
-- all of this money. And, you know, we know --
[cross talk]
Richard Fowler:
No, no, no. Because Ukraine aid was already approved --
Martha MacCallum:
-- how he does these things. He deals with every single country --
Richard Fowler:
But Martha --
Martha MacCallum:
-- on a country-by-country basis. And he says, “Where are we sending this money?”
Richard Fowler:
With all due respect, Martha --
Charlie Kirk:
Yes.
Martha MacCallum:
He has the absolute right. He has the absolute right to --
Richard Fowler:
We’ve had aid -- we had -- I agree.
Martha MacCallum:
-- consider --
Richard Fowler:
I agree.
Martha MacCallum:
-- whether or not the money should go. I know the money was approved in Congress.
Richard Fowler:
We had aid -- we had aid approved in Congress in 2017 and 2018. And the president didn’t say anything about an investigation. He said --
Martha MacCallum:
All right.
Richard Fowler:
-- nothing about corruption.
Martha MacCallum:
Well, like I said, the motive is --
Richard Fowler:
Well, wait --
Martha MacCallum:
-- the question. And that’s what this whole impeachment process is about. I want to just step aside from this for one second and play what I think is a very interesting sound bite from President Obama when it comes to the question of Joe Biden, who he does not mention specifically here. But listen to this and you can take from it what you like. Oh, it’s a quote. Let’s put it up. He says, “If you look at the world, and look at the problems, it’s usually old people, usually old men not getting out of the way. It is important for political leaders to try to remind themselves that you’re there to do a job, but you’re not there for life. You’re not there in order to prop up your own sense of self-importance or your own power.” Charlie?
Charlie Kirk:
Well, look. I just find this entire President Obama/Joe Biden relationship very interesting.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Charlie Kirk:
Because he’s been very hesitant to endorse him. Now, maybe there’s a strategy behind that or maybe, you know, he’s just waiting to see where the Democrat primary’s progressing. But there’s a lot of questions behind Joe Biden’s candidacy. And front and center was how his son got very, very rich while he was vice president --
Martha MacCallum:
Okay.
Charlie Kirk:
-- let’s not forget the China relationship and also Ukraine, of course.
Martha MacCallum:
All right, Richard. Quick thought on that. What do you think the president was getting to there and is Joe Biden, you know, part of that comment, do you think?
Richard Fowler:
Listen, I love President Obama like every other Democrat does, and I think like a lot of Americans do. And I think when he’s speaking to the fact is that our country is changing. And demographically, we’re changing. We look different. And having younger folks taking the helm, it’s probably time to do that in a lot of places. Now, we saw that happen in the 2018 election. We saw more young people elected to Congress --
Martha MacCallum:
[affirmative]
Richard Fowler:
-- than ever before. Because communities are changing. And the demands of communities are also changing. I think that’s what President Obama was speaking to in that quote.
Martha MacCallum:
If that’s the case, then you’re talking, maybe, Pete Buttigieg. I mean, you know, because you got Bernie --
Richard Fowler:
Hey, the primary is still young.
Martha MacCallum:
-- Sanders, you’ve got Michael Bloomberg, you’ve got Joe Biden, you’ve got Elizabeth Warren. So, the only person who might fit that category --
Richard Fowler:
It’s still a young primary. We still have a couple days before the Iowa caucus.
Martha MacCallum:
We sure do.
Richard Fowler:
Couple weeks before the Iowa caucus.
Martha MacCallum:
Couple weeks. Thank you guys. Good to see you both.
Richard Fowler:
Good to see you.
Charlie Kirk:
Thank you.
Martha MacCallum:
So, coming up next, the imminent announcement expected from the Trump administration on our troops in Afghanistan as we head one week from Christmas about. Senator Tom Cotton and Wisconsin Congressional Candidate Jason Church, both veterans, both here next.
[commercial break]
Martha MacCallum:
Senator Lindsey Graham expects a big announcement from President Trump on the war in Afghanistan this week. Graham says that the president is set to announce the drawdown of U.S. troops from the current 12,000 to roughly 8,600. And that is expected to begin next year.
[begin video clip]
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.:
It needs to be clear that our presence in Afghanistan will continue. And our goal is to withdraw our forces based on conditions that would warrant withdrawal. We cannot withdraw in a fashion to allow international terrorism to rear its ugly head again in Afghanistan.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
I’m joined now by two Afghanistan veterans, Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas and Jason Church, a retired Army captain who lost both of his legs in an explosion there. And he is now running for Congress in Wisconsin’s 7th district. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. Jason, let me start with you. How do you feel about this drawdown of troops? And you hear Lindsey Graham and his voice, very measured in terms of how it has to be conditions-based.
Jason Church, Army veteran:
Well, look. I grew up and I saw the 9/11 attacks. I remember when those towers were hit, and they fell. And we needed to go over there and clean that up. I mean, obviously, the Taliban facilitated the rise of Al Qaeda. They let Osama Bin Laden stay there. They conducted terrorist training camps. So, anything we do in Afghanistan needs to be catered towards the idea of never letting that happen again. That was the worst disaster for terrorism in U.S. history. And we have to do everything we can to prohibit that.
Martha MacCallum:
We thank you --
Jason Church:
We have spent --
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah. I was just going to say we thank you for your service in going over there and responding to what happened when those towers fell. If I may, I just want to get a quick thought from Tom Cotton because, you know, there was discussion about having the Taliban come to Camp David to work on an agreement. The Taliban has never renounced these ties to Al Qaeda. So, how’s this going to work?
Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark.:
They haven’t renounced ties, Martha. They need to do that if they’re going to be part of any kind of political solution, which is ultimately the only solution in Afghanistan. Jason, I support the president’s decision to try to bring all the parties to the table and have them kind of negotiate a solution, in the meantime keeping the pressure on the Taliban. That’s one reason I’m so pleased to be on with Jason tonight. He knows what it’s like to fight on the front lines in Afghanistan. The Taliban may have taken his legs. They can’t take his heart. They can’t take his fighting spirit. He’s got a heart for service. And we need reinforcements like Jason in Washington.
Martha MacCallum:
Well, I completely agree. And I’m sure most -- all Americans do. I want to play this from Rand Paul, who was on this show last week. He believes that we need to get out of Afghanistan, as you well know. Here’s what he said.
[begin video clip]
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky.:
In fact, I’ve yet to meet a general who actually can tell me succinctly what the current mission in Afghanistan is. I think after 19 years, the government of Afghanistan needs to step up; the people of Afghanistan need to step up; and ultimately, I think Islam needs to police Islam. It can’t be Americans always doing the job for everyone.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Jason Church, do you agree or disagree?
Jason Church:
Well, look, I think that we, you know, need to support the president’s decision to draw down troops. Because we really need to start putting the onus on the Afghans to actually start policing themselves. That being said though, we cannot allow Afghanistan to become another terrorist haven. That’s exactly why 9/11 happened. So, we need to make sure that we are always allocating the resources and manpower necessary to prohibit that. I think the president here is trying to make a strategic pivot towards Asia. I mean, obviously, we as Americans, we have limited time, limited resources, and limited soldiers. And for us to be able to allocate that over to a rising threat in China is huge. I mean, that’s why Secretary Esper said the other day that we are reprioritizing Centcom to the Asian region because of the rising threat of China.
Martha MacCallum:
Senator, final thought?
Tom Cotton:
Yeah. Jason and I agree with the president's decision to make our troops' presence in Afghanistan based on conditions. We just had General Scotty Miller, our commander in Afghanistan in front of the Armed Services Committee last week. He explained what his best professional military judgment was. I suspect the president will follow that. We aren't going to keep troops in Afghanistan on an arbitrary timeline or keep a large number of troops there if we don't need them. But as Jason said, and as the president has stated, we cannot let the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and ISIS use Afghanistan as a safe haven once again to attack Americans the way they did on 9/11.
Martha MacCallum:
Gentlemen, thank you for your service there, and thanks for coming on tonight. Good to see you both.
Male Speaker:
Thank you, Martha.
Martha MacCallum:
Coming up next, on a very different note. Did you see this over the weekend? A lot of people watched what Saturday Night Live did this weekend and said it was -- you know, it was funny. It was good-natured, and it was sort of even-handed. We're going to talk about why that is and what may be changing, next, former SNL star Joe Piscopo joins me come be up.
[begin video clip]
Male Speaker:
Who on earth could vote for Trump after this?
Female Speaker:
How could anyone not vote for Trump after this?
Male Speaker:
Who do you think's going to get voted off The Masked Singer next week?
[Laughter]
[end video clip]
[commercial break]
Martha MacCallum:
So for the first time in weeks, even years some might say, Saturday Night Live took a little bit of a break from going after the president and his party, hammer, hammer, hammer every single time, to the good-natured swing at all sides, and a lot of folks, anecdotally, said, you know what? It was funny. It was kind of the way it used to be. Watch.
[begin video clip]
Female Speaker:
They did it. They're impeaching Trump.
Female Speaker:
Mom, come on, we said no politics tonight.
Male Speaker:
I don't know what took them so long. Trump is a criminal.
Male Speaker:
Well, they did it. They're impeaching Trump.
Male Speaker:
Dad, stop.
Male Speaker:
I'm sorry. It's a disgrace. What crime did he even commit?
Female Speaker:
Well, I guess the crime of being an alpha male who actually gets things done.
Male Speaker:
Oh.
Male Speaker:
Come on, you're going to rile everybody up.
Male Speaker:
Well, I'm just asking. Do y'all think Bad Boys III is going to be good enough?
Male Speaker:
I hate to say this, but could we please talk about politics instead?
Male Speaker:
Oh, you mean how Trump is definitely getting impeached and then definitely getting re-elected? I'm good.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
So, Saturday Night Live is over heavy-handed one side of political comedy for the moment. What does it say about where the whole country is at this point? Joining me now, comedian and former SNL star, Joe Piscopo, who you hear on the radio all the time. Joe, great to have you here.
Joe Piscopo, actor:
Great to be with you, Martha.
Martha MacCallum:
I just want to start by playing another tail end of that because it's really funny. Watch this next part.
Joe Piscopo:
Okay.
[begin video clip]
Female Speaker:
I mean, I don't like all the Democratic candidates, but I'd take any of them over four more years of Trump.
Male Speaker:
I don't agree with everything Trump is doing, but he's way better than any of those Democrats.
Male Speaker:
You know who I'm starting to like a lot, that Pete Buttigieg. [Laughter] Well, I'm just saying. I'm just saying.
Female Speaker:
That was a good one, Ben.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
He's so funny.
Joe Piscopo:
Is he in a bikini top [unintelligible]? The cast is great.
Martha MacCallum:
Look at his face, and you just crack up.
Joe Piscopo:
Yes.
Martha MacCallum:
What do you think?
Joe Piscopo:
I think it's great. I think it -- I've been saying it for years. I always stick up for Saturday Night Live. It's my home.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
It's where I come from. It's all about loyalty. There's no loyalty anymore. They gave me everything that I have now. I could work now. Once you're off of SNL, you can pretty much work forever. Thank God. So, I will never say anything bad about it. But I always thought it was funny. You just have to pick and choose. What I like to see, what I -- what they're doing is watching Maya Rudolph do Kamala Harris; hysterical.
Martha MacCallum:
Very -- she's so funny.
Joe Piscopo:
Woody Harrelson is Joe Biden.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
The mic drop --
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
-- hysterical, with the -- with the teeth and everything like that. Will -- Will Farrell, you know, as Steyer -- as Steyer, he comes out as Steyer.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
And then Fred Armison comes out as Bloomberg. "I'm Michael Bloomberg." It's hysterical. You can't make it up. And then it goes back to the history of SNL when you always have to have fun with it and laugh with it.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah. And then you have to poke at both sides because what you want is just like -- you know, the great thing about that dinner table scene is that you're like, oh, my gosh --
Joe Piscopo:
Yes, exactly.
Martha MacCallum:
-- that looks like my family.
Joe Piscopo:
Exactly.
Martha MacCallum:
And that also looks like my family.
Joe Piscopo:
Very good.
Martha MacCallum:
And that also sounds like my --
Joe Piscopo:
It was so well written.
Martha MacCallum:
It has to resonate with everybody, I think.
Joe Piscopo:
And then -- and Danny Aykroyd wrote the book when he did Nixon --
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
And John Belushi did Henry Kissinger.
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
And Danny -- you know, "Pray with me, Henry. Pray. Pray with --" it's like you -- well, you can't make it up. It was great. It's great, and you've got to laugh. We've all got to laugh at each other, you know?
Martha MacCallum:
You know what? And it also got sort of woven through the whole show, which I thought was just sort of like really funny, even-handed. This is the -- this is from the --
Joe Piscopo:
Did you see the translator dog, the translator dog? Did you see that --
Martha MacCallum:
No.
Joe Piscopo:
-- where the dog talked? It was Scarlett Johansson.
Martha MacCallum:
Oh, I missed that part. Alison Staudinger had --
Joe Piscopo:
Yeah.
Martha MacCallum:
But watch this part. This is from the Weekend Update, which I loved.
Joe Piscopo:
Okay.
Martha MacCallum:
Watch.
[begin video clip]
Michael Che, 'SNL Weekend Update' anchor:
President Trump could become the first president to face impeachment while also running for re-election because only Democrats could figure out a way to lose twice in the same year.
Michael Che:
Kamala dropped out because she ran out of money. Rob a bank. Do y'all want this or not?
[Laughter]
[end video clip]
Joe Piscopo:
It's all -- it's all good fun, and you -- and I think the funny thing is, when they start doing both sides, it's a good sign.
Martha MacCallum:
But what does it tell you about what their assessment is --
Joe Piscopo:
That's a great question.
Martha MacCallum:
-- of what's going on out there right now?
Joe Piscopo:
They --
Martha MacCallum:
Because they always want to be a little ahead of where the country is.
Joe Piscopo:
Look, you know, I make no apologies. I support the president, you know. I've known Donald J. Trump for 40 years. Everything's great. We're in good shape, and people are happy, man. I work -- we did Fox & Friends downstairs on Friday. We did "Baby It's Cold Outside," politically correct version with Dena Martin. Saturday, I'm at the Rainbow Room. People are happy. They're standing up. It's a good time. But you know what? We can disagree, but we shouldn't divide. If we put aside the divide, we're all in this together --
Martha MacCallum:
Yeah.
Joe Piscopo:
-- you know?
Martha MacCallum:
I think -- I think you're so right. And here's you doing a little political humor --
Joe Piscopo:
Uh-oh.
Martha MacCallum:
Watch.
[begin video clip]
Joe Piscopo:
Yes, you'll receive all this, the economic recovery, the Ginsu knives, the magic cards, and the land-based missile system. Thousands sold in Europe already. The amazing TV president.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
You get all in the economic recover.
Joe Piscopo:
And he was my hero.
Martha MacCallum:
Your own Ginsu knife.
Joe Piscopo:
He was my hero, but I poked fun.
Martha MacCallum:
But you've got to poke fun. That's what we're all about.
Joe Piscopo:
Yeah.
Martha MacCallum:
As human beings, we need to laugh at ourselves. Thank you. Good to see you. Thanks, Joe.
Joe Piscopo:
Martha, always great to see you.
Martha MacCallum:
Great to see you too.
Joe Piscopo:
Thanks so much.
Martha MacCallum:
Thanks for coming in tonight. Don't be a stranger.
Joe Piscopo:
Live from New York --
Martha MacCallum:
So coming up next --
Joe Piscopo:
-- right here.
Martha MacCallum:
Live. The Story goes on the road with decorated heroes to bring a simple act of Christmas kindness to a purple heart recipient celebrating at home for the first time in 30 years.
[begin video clip]
Chris Dearing:
He missed Christmas' and stuff like that for his country and I couldn't be prouder to be his son and stand next to him.
[end video clip]
[commercial break]
Martha MacCallum:
On Friday we introduced you to air force veteran Derek Claflin who owns a lighting company in small town Illinois. Every year he brightens the lives of heroes and their families by volunteering to come and decorate their homes for the holidays. Recently the story caught up with Derek as he brought a simple act of Christmas kindness to a purple heart recipient celebrating at home for the first time in 30 years.
[begin video clip]
Derek Claflin:
Mason actually reached out to my wife on our Facebook page and I believe he was asking for an estimate for his house to be installed for Christmas lights after 30 years of service just returning home. My wife said, "Hey, Derek, I know we've already reached our eight that we had for this year for our decorated heroes, but you need to read his story." And I read it right away and we knew that we were going to come out here and surprise Mason and have him be our ninth decorated hero. It's the least we can do to give back to them after everything they've gone through for us.
Mason Dearing:
I'm Chief Warrant Officer IV Mason Dearing. I'm retired. I was responsible for the upkeep of all the ground equipment that the army has and ensure that they are fully mission capable at all times for the commanders and for the troops. We were down towards the Habbaniyah area getting ready to come back home to Ramadi and they said hey, go as fast as you can on this one. We got to this one area and they hit us with an IED, and it hit our vehicle. They checked me out. I had a little ringing in my ears and one of my eardrums was kind of messed up. And a little concussion, you know, from the explosion. It's minor things is what I thought. I laid down in bed just for a minute and it was like my heart was beating and then it would stop and then it would start back up again like 10 seconds later and I went into the cardiologist and they said you had a heart attack. They said, "You're lucky to be here." I thought it was going to end my career. But I fought through it. I followed the doctor's guidance and diet and they cleared me to go back again to Iraq. I loved the military when I was serving, and I love America and the American flag and I'll go back. I'll go back in the army right now if they ask me to.
Chris Dearing:
He missed Christmases and stuff like that for his country and I couldn't be prouder to be his son and stand next to him for everything he's done and to sit here and spend our first Christmas together, it's just -- it's the greatest thing ever. Derek came out and he decorated our house. Our goal was to get back from Hawaii after he retired and, you know, we wanted to come back here so bad, get back home where our family was, and spend the holidays together and be able to decorate our house and we didn't know if that was going to happen.
Mason Dearing:
We love Christmas lights and I told Chris, I said, "Hey, I said, I can't climb on that roof." I said, "There's no way I can get up there." I said, "But we need Christmas lights," because Christmas lights are -- we keep them on all year round. We always did. It's a sign of respect for all the soldiers and men and women out there fighting for our country. I don't know if it was a blessing, but I went out to get a few boxes of Christmas lights to put around the door and Chris called me up at Home Depot and said, "Hey, Derek's here." And I was like, "You're kidding?" It's just a blessing to see a business helping veterans out that can't physically get up on the roof anymore. I'm truly grateful that he did it. I saw the lights and he put them red, white, and blue and I was like that looks like an American flag. It's an amazing experience. This is the first time I've ever had anything like this happen. I'm happy to be home.
[end video clip]
Martha MacCallum:
Great story. Another great story. We thank him so much for his service and we wish his family a wonderful Christmas together back home. That's The Story today. We’ll see you back here tomorrow. Good night, everybody.
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