This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 18, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld.
It's 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." Today, Roger Ailes, the founder of this network sadly passed away at the age of 77, we will look back at his life, his career and share some personal stories later this hour.
But first, breaking news tonight. President Trump is speaking on camera for the first time about the Justice Department's decision to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate possible coordination between his campaign and the Russian government during the 2016 election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I respect the move but the entire thing has been a witch-hunt, and there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign, but I can always speak for myself and the Russians zero, I think it divides the country. I think we have a very divided country because of that and many other things. So I can tell you that we want to bring this great country of ours together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana, I'll go to you on the communications here in terms of the messaging from the President.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, so Dan Henninger of the Wall Street Journal wrote a piece this week where he said, "Just let Trump be Trump." And, you know, don't try to put him in a box, let him be his own press secretary, my advice yesterday was, when you had a Special Counsel, the best thing you can do is to say, nothing, don't comment on it and move on so you can actually focused on your agenda and talk about jobs, the economy and this great foreign trip concept that he has put together.
But the advice is useless, because he's going to do what he's going to do. So, when you decided the comment this morning by Twitter, and again here, I mean, it's a new way to deal with a Special Counsel, I don't think that they realize how serious this actually is. They'd like to just say, oh, this is all fake. It might be. It could very well turn out to be that there is absolutely nothing there. But I think that it is actually like walking on a high wire without helmet above the Grand Canyon.
GUILFOYLE: Woof, doesn't sound fast. Okay, Greg, what do you make of this? In terms of, you know, discussing it, there was one statement put out, then these statements today about the Special Counsel.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: By fair part is when he said, I can speak for myself and the Russians. I know what he meant but still pretty funny.
GUILFOYLE: Our president is awesome.
PERINO: We got this.
GUTFELD: I am also representing the Russians in this. Look, the great thing about this investigation is that they took the ball away from the kids playing in the street. So, they can no longer play with this ball. Of course though, they will find another ball because its investigation will never be enough. Instead of it being the right step, it will just be the first step. It won't be enough. We need more investigations. We needed more independents. But the thing is, you know, how many times a week counted this guy out, I counted him out. I don't know.
Six hundred and 37 times during the campaign, I get a sense that Donald Trump is the opposite of like Bill Clinton. He is a creature that drives on the antagonism on the fight which is why you can't count them out. Cat has nine lives. He's like three cats. He has 27 lives. And that's why when I see him up there, I don't see somebody that really gives a damn which is I think kind of refreshing and refreshing to me and scary to his critics. That makes sense?
GUILFOYLE: I like that. Okay, Jesse. What do you make of this?
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Yes. I agree with Greg. I think Trump has him exactly worry want some.
PERINO: It's brilliant.
WATTERS: This is a brilliant strategy. This has been mapped up for months.
GUTFELD: That's not what I said. That's not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth you crazy liberals.
WATTERS: I do agree to a certain extent that what you're saying is that, you know, Trump is not a traditional politician, he doesn't play by the traditional political rules and people are judging him by the traditional political rules and he was brought into DC to break the rules. So, that is one thing. In contacts and I hate to do this to Juan, but I want to just put this into perspective in terms of the other Obama scandals, you had people lying and dying and being bribed on countless occasions from IRS, to Benghazi to the Iran deal, to the Bergdahl trade, Hillary smashed blackberries with a hammer and deleted 30,000 emails that were under subpoena.
And even on domestic terrorist attacks, the FBI could have prevented those things and then the President comes out and makes it about guns and Islamaphobia. So, in all those things, there was no Special Counsel and the media had no appetite. Here, I guess whatever you called this, so- called Trump, Comey, Russia scandal, no one died, no one lied, no one destroyed hard drives and there is a special counsel all of a sudden and the media is bloodthirsty for impeachment. So, until I see a scandal, I think right now it just looks like an investigation.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I see --
GUILFOYLE: But Juan, wasn't the media and also the liberals kind of bloodthirsty for impeachment or something like that kind of from the beginning, because this wasn't somebody that they supported or thought that would be suitable to be president?
WILLIAMS: Who did they think was suitable to be president?
GUILFOYLE: Did not think was suitable.
WILLIAMS: Oh, did not? Well, yes, I think it's right when conservatives say that the liberals have never gotten over the election, I think that's true. But I don't think what you said was true, Jesse. No one lied? I think that we know that Mike Flynn lied. I think we know that Donald Trump has --
WATTERS: Not what the investigation is about.
WILLIAMS: Oh, I think the investigation -- I thought that's part of the investigation.
WATTERS: He was cleared nothing elicit happens in this conversation.
WILLIAMS: No, in fact --
PERINO: This investigation started last July even before the election ever took place into this counter intelligence investigation into possible collusion between Trump campaign officials and Russia. That started well before.
WATTERS: Who lied?
PERINO: I don't know. That's why there's an investigation. But to say --
WATTERS: Okay. So no one has -- so far.
PERINO: We also know that Michael Flynn lied before President Trump said that.
WATTERS: But that's not a part of the investigation.
WILLIAMS: Yes. It is part of the investigation.
WATTERS: He is being looked at right now for not registering as a foreign agent and collecting fees for foreign governments.
WILLIAMS: No. And that's a scandal in and of itself, that he had a million dollars from Turkey and then opposing any action that would not benefit Turkey as a U.S. official.
WATTERS: That is not the collusion aspect of the investigation.
WILLIAMS: Hang on! Jesse, you can't just, I mean, you know, Trump said this was a witch-hunt, you're doing the opposite. It's like, you remember when somebody said, I think it was McCarthy, Kevin McCarthy, the House whip said, it is a joke, where he says, I bet the Russians are paying Trump, this was last summer. Right? I don't want anybody to say that someone is paying me.
WILLIAMS: I don't know. But I am just telling you, there was big news today it seems to me when you have Rod Rosenstein who was the Deputy Attorney General and acting Attorney General in terms of the Russia probe because Jeff Sessions has recused himself tell people that in fact he knew Comey was going to be fired before he wrote the memo that was cited by the White House as the basis for Comey's firing.
GUTFELD: What's wrong with that?
WILLIAMS: What's wrong with that, means that he was set up and used like a stooge.
GUTFELD: No, that's what people do. No, it's like, I'm sorry, all of these errors are not political errors, their human errors. It's like, you know, when Trump says to Comey, hey, he's a good guy, you know, go easy on him, that's what a guy does. That's what a boss does.
PERINO: I want to ask you though. Why is that an error in the Rosenstein piece in particular?
GUTFELD: Hey, I don't like this guy, can you do a report on him? I don't know what the problem is there. I think I've done that many times at work.
GUILFOYLE: That's an error?
GUTFELD: I think it is. I think it's a non-political human error. It is what a guy does who's been a businessman.
WATTERS: It's not a criminal offense.
GUILFOYLE: But you're saying it's more loose semantics. I understand what he's saying as an editor, right? You're saying, it's more loose semantics versus intent.
GUTFELD: It's human behavior.
PERINO: It's a write memo that will cover me because I want to fire him.
GUTFELD: No, he says, the guy is firing him. Do something. Write about it.
WILLIAMS: Write about it. The press secretaries who said, oh, no, Trump was acting on Rosenstein's memo, he didn't say Trump told Rosenstein to write the memo. But anyway, it seems to me that when you also have Jessie, reports that the Trump campaign had 18 undisclosed contacts with the Russians in the last seven months, oh, gee, something's going on. And then you have Trump saying, this is the greatest witch-hunt ever. What is that do?
GUTFELD: You know what the opposite of a witch-hunt is? You know what the opposite --
WILLIAMS: Everybody on the defense including people who are trying to defend them.
GUTFELD: The opposite of a witch-hunt is, I guess the way you might have approached, you know, Lois Lerner or how the media approached Lois Lerner and the IRS scandal. That's the opposite of a witch-hunt. Nobody bothered to hunt anything.
WATTERS: Yes. And if you're on the defensive, your shredding documents and withholding information from Congress, which Holder was held in contempt of Congress for it. I mean, Hillary destroyed 30,000 emails, that's look a little defensive to me, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say, has Hillary been found guilty? After all of the Republican probes and hearings, anything?
GUILFOYLE: No, but that's --
WATTERS: That's why he was fired because he's botched that investigation.
WILLIAMS: You're never happy.
GUTFELD: But no, you're just using, you're laughing at the same argument you used on him.
WILLIAMS: Tell me.
GUTFELD: You're saying that, oh, there's nothing -- no there there because there hasn't been an investigation. That is just what you did to him.
WILLIAMS: No. I said there was an expensive endless investigation by Republicans of the Benghazi, IRS.
GUTFELD: It wasn't prosecuted.
GUILFOYLE: Flynn's investigation discussion is going so well. President Trump today also denied that he tried to shut down the FBI investigation against his former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you at any time urge former FBI Director James Comey in any way, shape or form to close or to back down the investigation into Michael Flynn? And also as you look back --
TRUMP: No, no. Next question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you had any recollection where you've wondered if anything you have done has been something that might be worthy of criminal charges and this investigations or impeachments as some on the left are implying?
TRUMP: I think it's totally ridiculous, everybody thinks so. And again, we have to get back to working our country properly so that we can take care of the problems that we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: What do you expect him to say?
GUTFELD: Do you think you're guilty of anything that was illegal? You know, you've got me there. Yes. Not guilty. You've got me. What do you expect them to say?
GUILFOYLE: On advised accounts. Yes. No, wrong.
GUTFELD: I mean, gee!
WILLIAMS: How about the old Al Gore, mistakes were made.
GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.
WILLIAMS: No totally authority, right? But I mean, he knows that mistakes were made, he knows in fact that now, that there's been an admission that the Trump team knew that Mike Flynn, right? Was under investigation when they put him in his National Security advisor?
GUILFOYLE: Dana, how would you advice the President to answer those questions --
PERINO: Well, I think that was right.
GUTFELD: -- if you knew he was going to take the podium and then --
PERINO: If you're going to get it and a lot of them again, I think referring it to the Special Counsel, it would be fine, I'm going to talk about whatever. If they know, fine, and just say nothing more. Just be quiet, and move on. You know what from jury.
PERINO: But I also think that we can do this whole thing about what about in the past and that it makes for good discussion and I do not like hypocrisy at all. And so, I actually like that part of the discussion but it doesn't matter a hill of beans when it comes to this actual investigation. And the investigation, they won't say, well, what about this, and what about that from eight years ago. They are going to try. And I don't think -- everybody should just want this real tight and get it over with as quickly as possible.
GUILFOYLE: What is the likelihood of that?
PERINO: Well, I don't know the facts, as more and more stuff comes out, as one we're describing, the whole $500,000 in the Turks, in the conversation with Susan Rice so far the administration, and the action that was not taken on Raqqa, on his advice that wasn't disclosed and then Mike Pence didn't know about that, and now we're seeing, now I did, nobody ever told me that he was actually under investigation, Michael Flynn's people say -- there's a lot here that I think will be cleared up pretty quickly by a professional like Bob Muller.
GUILFOYLE: All right.
WATTERS: I would have to give it to you. Flynn is a problem, he was a problem and he continues to be a problem, I definitely say that.
Greg, as much as it pains me to say made a great point the other day that hoping is not obstruction. If hoping was a crime, everybody would be in prison. You can't say, I hope this guy is clear and then start doing --
PERINO: When your boss says, I hope you do this, that's why you document things, if that includes harassment or something like this where you think there might be a problem with --
WATTERS: If someone says I hope these happens, I don't consider it harassment, maybe I have a lower threshold.
PERINO: Well, actually you might.
PERINO: But that's not what the law says. It will depend on what the law says.
WATTERS: I think the law has to be intense to undermine. And don't think that's a bar.
PERINO: And President Trump said, no, we now know he is saying, he's not under oath, but he's saying in public, in-front of the world, he say, no. So, that is his statement.
WATTERS: Right. And I'd hate to compare it to Obama, but he was pretty --
WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh!
WATTERS: -- outgoing when he was saying that Hillary didn't commit a crime --
WILLIAMS: Oh, get out.
WATTERS: -- over the emails or there was not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS.
WILLIAMS: Here's the problem with intent.
WILLIAMS: He tells Pence and he tells everyone else get out of the room, I just want to talk to Comey. Oh! And then he says, I hope.
WATTERS: Maybe it was a romantic dinner, Juan, you don't know.
GUILFOYLE: And Juan, you missed a point before. There is a businessman coming into the Oval Office and things are very different in terms of how president's -- and in the business boardroom, et cetera. So, I want to have a talk, you and I one on one, CEO to CEO, everybody leave the room. It's very different here and he needs to be advised as to what's proper to protect the President, to protect the United States and the Oval. Coming up. Yes, sweetie.
GUTFELD: I've been trying to politely try to interject. One of the key examples here is with Flynn whether it is right or wrong what he did, was not a political move on his part it's what's called a human move. If you're a non-political person, what do you rely on?
GUTFELD: Loyalty. So, he thinks this guy Flynn maybe made some mistakes but he's a good guy. Hey, that's a human response, it might not be the right response, it's not the political response, but it's a guy who defaults on loyalty which is kind of a human quality. That's all I'm saying.
GUILFOYLE: I'm glad we waited for that point. I appreciate it.
GUTFELD: Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: Coming up.
GUTFELD: We'll be right back.
GUILFOYLE: President Trump says, he's close to picking the new FBI director will tell you who the frontrunner is, up next. Stay with us.
PERINO: All right. Kimberly and I switch music today. I'm sure you can see that. Nine days after he dismissed James Comey as FBI director, President Trump says, his top choice to lead the bureau is former Senator Joe Lieberman, and his announcement could come at any moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to have a director who is going to be outstanding, I'll be announcing that director very soon. And I look forward to doing it. I think the people and the FBI will be very, very, very, very thrilled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Yes. I think Senator Joe Lieberman could be a very interesting choice. Again, you have people like Bob Mueller, Lieberman, these sort of giants of Washington, D.C., that have really good reputations, Kimberly, being willing to be public servants and maybe come back and do this. It's not a done deal and in fact we just found out that "The New York Times" is saying that the White House is signaling this announcement may not come before President Trump leaves on his foreign trip tomorrow.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. So, that's just came out. Look, Joe Lieberman is somebody who really both sides get along with very well, and admire, I spent time with him. He is very personable, he's bright, he's somebody that really in terms of his issues and policies, tends to identify more, you know, with Republicans, assist someone that Senate McCain had considered as a running mate as his vice presidential choice before he choose Sarah Palin and just the different things that I see in the tents in terms of the Hudson Institute or whatnot.
He's there. He's very smart as relates to foreign policy and National Security. I think he's a patriot. You know, very hardworking. So, I don't think he would be a bad choice. I think he would be a good choice. It just depends, you have to evaluate all the potential options and candidates who would be best suited for that particular organization which is a very important one and especially during this time.
PERINO: Democrats support him, Juan?
WILLIAMS: No. And I think --
WILLIAMS: Yes. No. So, this was a little bit of a surprise because like Kimberly, I've had just very positive experience to Senator Lieberman --
WILLIAMS: -- over the years. And I found him absolutely trustworthy. But here's the situation right now. Lieberman was with a law firm since he left the Senate, Dana. And law firm has represented Trump in some litigation and in addition to which, remember that he'd back John McCain who was his very close friend in the Senate. I mean, the three amigos, McCain, Lindsey Graham, as Senator Lieberman on so many issues. So, he backed McCain against Obama that didn't sit well of course with the hardline politics and the Democratic Party. And then subsequent to that, oppose the Iran nuclear deal that Obama was struggling to get passed in the face of strong Republican opposition. So, there are a lot of people who say, well, really --
PERINO: But this one wouldn't be about politics and Jesse, just because his law firm which was quite large, had done some work for Donald Trump who is a billionaire and now president, it doesn't mean that Joe Lieberman was actually working on any of that business, I guess you'd had to see if that's the case but doesn't seem he's be tainted in that way.
WATTERS: I don't think he would be tainted. I think he's a great choice to be FBI director.
WATTERS: I interned for Joe Lieberman when I was at Trinity College in Connecticut.
GUILFOYLE: This explains her greatness.
WATTERS: That's right. So, that explains everything.
GUILFOYLE: It's Lieberman's work.
WATTERS: That was after, that came afterwards. I also think he's smarter enough that Trump ever invites him over for dinner. He'll say no. He's also not when you've called him an electric speaker so I don't think he's going to be hot talking it's all over the place. But just remember what his background is, he was part of the recount and urged Gore to drop out to save the country and to heal the country. He was also someone that voted against impeaching Clinton, but really it took a lot of moral courage to say what he did in the office was reprehensible. And I think afterwards, he voted for the Iraq war.
PERINO: Right. Yes.
GUILFOYLE: He's a principled person.
WATTERS: He's a principled guy with integrity.
GUILFOYLE: Nonpartisan in so many respects.
WILLIAMS: Let me just quickly say. But he's never been a prosecutor, right? He's never been an FBI agent, he's never served in the Justice Department. Never handled a major agency.
PERINO: That is an interesting point. Greg, do you have any feelings either way on Joe Lieberman?
GUTFELD: Oh, absolutely not. Please go to the next segment.
Yes. Lieberman is a reasonable Democrat which is as rare as the captive barracks, worse than anything, he's an old, old white male and we've had enough of them. Right now, we're overlooking, no, we are overlooking the obvious choice, who is available right now, right now beloved by the media no matter what she does, Chelsea Manning.
WATTERS: Ah! Chelsea Manning.
GUTFELD: The biggest trader in history, beloved by the media who dumped probably the largest amount of classified documents in 35 years and everybody still loves her. You know how you hire a safe cracker to design a crack proof safe? Then, hire the biggest trader so you can fight espionage. That make sense to me, the media will love it because they're bunch of idiots.
WILLIAMS: You know, Jesse thought you were going to say Chelsea Clinton.
GUTFELD: I did. Chelsea Manning.
WILLIAMS: And then I thought, why not Hillary Clinton, she's available?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, Juan. Chelsea Clinton. Clinton Foundation.
GUTFELD: The only person with less expertise than Chelsea Manning is Chelsea Clinton.
PERINO: All right. Directly ahead. One of the most absurd comments about President Trump ever from the ladies at "The View," we will play the tape, next.
WATTERS: President Trump said yesterday that no politician in history has been treated worse by the press. One of the ladies on "The View" had a curious objection to the President's claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": I did want to point out, there have been a couple who have been perhaps treated more unfairly or as unfairly, let's talk about I don't know, Barack Obama.
GUILFOYLE: My gosh!
WATTERS: Barack Obama!
GUTFELD: Yes. She's right.
WATTERS: How so, Greg?
GUTFELD: Because the mainstream media was so obedient that he was left unchallenged and resulted in a mediocre president. He had the potential to become a good president but he never had to try, he never had to explain himself. Because if you requested that he explain himself, that would be construed as racist. Which then because if you criticized Obama, of course, you were a bigot, we went through that for years.
GUTFELD: And that assumption resulted in Trump because so many people were tired being smeared as racist when in fact they were just conservative.
WATTERS: So, he never faced any adversity, that he had to overcome and improve his presidency.
WATTERS: Wasn't it --
GUTFELD: Why is he shaking his head?
WILLIAMS: Well, you disagree with that? Like wow --
GUTFELD: It's true.
WILLIAMS: What is going on? I mean, Greg, you yourself, I can say, I can give testimony, I'm a witness. Greg Gutfeld going after Obama regularly.
WATTERS: One guy on one network.
WILLIAMS: One guy on one network. I see. Our network doesn't count, were not the biggest cable network in America.
WATTERS: Well, it's not CNN, not ABC --
WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.
GUILFOYLE: Can you say, in the world?
WILLIAMS: In the world. The biggest in the world, Miss Guilfoyle. But I just think, what an amazing claim, he opened himself up to such criticism that, you know, Senator McCain would say, oh, no, no, no, I was treated worse. If you think about President Clinton who was impeached, you think about Richard Nixon who was forced out of office, or you think about Jimmy Carter who was mocked for sailing or whatever he was doing, paddling with rabbits.
WILLIAMS: Oh, come on!
WATTERS: Oh, that is so mean. Paddling with the rabbits.
WATTERS: They called Trump a clan member.
WILLIAMS: No, it was Trump. It was Trump.
GUTFELD: They called him Hitler.
WATTERS: Yes. They called him Hitler.
GUILFOYLE: I'm nuts. And you're like, he would call the rabbits. I mean --
WILLIAMS: A rabbit --
GUILFOYLE: -- rabbit are --
GUTFELD: By the way, I think that was fake news, the rabbit story.
WILLIAMS: That was fake news.
GUTFELD: I don't know how many people at home know the rabbit story.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. Please tell.
GUTFELD: The rabbit was going to attack --
WILLIAMS: And he whacked the rabbit.
GUILFOYLE: I think he murdered it.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. But at least he was born in the country. Remember? Obama wasn't born here.
WATTERS: Wasn't it that Hillary Clinton campaign that started that?
WILLIAMS: Oh, get out of here.
WATTERS: Kimberly, can you knock him --
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Hillary Clinton, her campaign did raise this issue.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, that's true. That's true.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you. See, we can all agree.
GUTFELD: Just raising the question.
WATTERS: That's right.
GUTFELD: Where was he born?
WATTERS: I hope he was born in America.
PERINO: That whole birth tourism I think about total human error.
GUTFELD: That was a jab at me.
WATTERS: When she makes a comment like this on the view, people watch at home Obama was treated really poorly, they yelled at you lied during the state of the union and they hear about the birth certificate or two people just say you have to be kidding me.
GUILFOYLE: The mainstream liberal media liberals are like the laugh track, everybody cheered. That is what people believe. That is what she believes.
WILLIAMS: If you attached President Obama's name to any of the stuff that has happened to President Trump in the last month, don't you think that this network, Republicans would go ballistic?
GUILFOYLE: They loved him, he was there guy, and they would put them back in for a third term.
WATTERS: They called President Obama the messiah. They said he was a rock star.
PERINO: I think there's a distinction that Whoopi Goldberg is making. President Trump is saying no one is treated worse by the media. Whoopi is actually saying nobody's treating worse she means the Republicans. The media didn't treat President Obama badly. I think she think Republican obviously the media takes a shot at Republicans for decades, you have to factor that in. Do you remember that first press conference when President Obama as to what enchants you about the White House? There was actual news happening that day. I do think President Trump is much more accessible to the press even though he gets frustrated with them, he punches them and they punch back. He had lunch with them today, I bet he does a lot more -- they get to hear his direct thoughts from twitter.
GUTFELD: Who is more transparent, Trump or Obama?
PERINO: Trump is not even close.
WATTERS: Big shots Democrat makes a shocking admission about his own party.
WILLIAMS: One of the major reasons President Trump is in the White House is because he connected with middle-class voters. Many of whom it fed up with the typical ways of Washington. Now, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel a big shot in the Democratic Party has offered his diagnosis for why the Democrats seem so out of touch with regular America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, MAYOR OF CHICAGO: I think we don't talk about and fight for the middle class, if they don't hear we are for them, was not going to convince them that they are wrong. It's not just a set of values that respect who they are in their lives. I think they can come off as a party disdainful of them is the bedrock of this great country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Dana, do you agree with Rahm Emanuel?
PERINO: I think it would be wise to listen to him. If you think back to 2006 when Republicans lost all the seats in the midterm election during President Bush's second term, who led the Democratic effort for all those seats to be one? It was Rahm Emanuel. I think he absolutely understands politics and messaging very well. He is in the Midwest is not on one of the coastal states where he is cocooned. If the daily stories out of the White House weren't digging up all the oxygen in the room, I think the bigger story would be the Democrats six months, seven months after the election are still completely in disarray, they do not have a strong leader. They do not have a plan. They are running in all directions. They benefit from all of this Trump coverage so they can escape under the radar.
WILLIAMS: So Kimberly, what you hear which Rahm Emanuel says, he says Democratic values are ok, it's just that middle-class Americans aren't hearing it. Is he lying or is this real? It's a failure to communicate.
GUILFOYLE: How convenient for him to say they're the ones with the problem, they are not hearing it. The Democratic Party is perfect. He is not accepting actual responsibility to say that there needs to be transformative change within that party, because if you don't take this election as a complete wake-up call, working-class men and women and middle-class families across this country resoundingly made a choice to go with Donald Trump and not to go with the Democratic party, why? Because they are not resonating and speaking to their values come out to their pocketbook, to their dinner table at night to the gas in their car, to the job security that they hope and pray for, to be able to educate their children and they need to wake up, because this should have been an easy layup for them and it's not, instead Trump got it on a three-pointer shot.
WILLIAMS: And Rahm, by the way Gregg, he said this, President Trump goes after the big cities like Chicago for all the murders and Philadelphia and New York but he never goes after the suburbs where there's a real opioid crisis, never mentioned it.
GUTFELD: He is a little late to the party. I think he is going to tell us about a great new sitcom called Seinfeld we should be checking out. Where the hell is this guy from?
GUILFOYLE: No soup for you.
GUTFELD: He wouldn't know the middle class but sat in his lap. This is a guy in the middle of biweekly bloodshed in Chicago was taking time out to chick-fillet, his priorities are really based on the people that he hangs out with that charity auctions and cocktail events. He would break down it hypes if you want to Wal-Mart or a Fridays or Applebee's which have great ribs by the way. Not the one of the midtown area, but it's ok. My point is this, he is so irrelevant and far gone, I mean this is a story that we are talking about months ago. That was horrible to it, we could do better.
WILLIAMS: here is a solution. I saved this one for you because I think you would be the man to really think is this the right solution. Here's what Rahm says, he thinks that what we need to do is stop focusing on Trump's antics, Trump's statements, Trump's tweets and a focus on the issues, the policy debates.
WATTERS: Well I mean I'm not going to say Rahm is right, because -- he is right here. Even when he is right, he still speaks about Americans like they are a different species. He is speaking about us, and them, and they don't understand us. It comes off as snobby. No one wants to vote for a snob. He comes off as the pc police, they don't understand us, and he is like an anthropologist of studying some ancient tribe in order to gain their trust and trick them to sell them his land or something like that. Trump speaks to regular Americans, he doesn't need a translator. How do I talk to middle-class people? It's corny, I'm not buying it.
WILLIAMS: I think he is onto something with the economic message.
GUTFELD: He is on to something everyone else was onto two years ago.
WILLIAMS: Kimberly said it right and Dana said this too, Democrats are still in disarray largely after this and their approval numbers Gregg are down now to the point where there almost equal with Republicans.
GUTFELD: Everybody's down, let's face it.
WILLIAMS: All right some emotional news to discuss when the Five returns, were going to pay our respects to the founder of Fox News, Roger Ailes, he passed away, today, back in a moment.
GUTFELD: Welcome back, so Roger Ailes passed away today. Roger had a huge effect on this country, on the news, on all of us around the table. In every building where a Fox News employee has worked or works today.
But it wasn't just Fox News and its millions of viewers that benefited from Roger. All other news outlets were improved by him for he pushed them to rethink all of their biased views, he called them on it. Then sought to fight it with a profound idea that became a Fox News. You can see its effect not just in Fox News' wild success but among those to which there were no opposition to their views. Those outside the news may not have liked FNC, but their lives have also been improved by smarter analysis created by healthy competition. Roger created a more informed public by making our competition work for it, which probably that drove them nuts.
The mark of an achievement is that you can't imagine the world before it. What was news like before Fox News? I remember it was a place where diverse opinion was scarce, were millions of patriotic Americans were ignored by a mainstream media that dominated by a world of frightened, dull witted conformity. That era died when Fox News was born.
Personally, I wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for Roger. He gave me a show in the dead of night called "Red Eye" even though he had actually met me first. What was he thinking? I'm just one of hundreds of stories like that. He was a man who saw something in all of us -- potential, talent, edge -- things that other people didn't see. We will always be grateful for that, but we saw something in him too, something will likely never see again.
I'm going to start with you Dana, your thoughts?
PERINO: A lot, when you said you wouldn't be here, I think that is true possibly for everybody here at the table. For me, I had never expressed my own opinion in public before I came here. I had been on television before. I was speaking on somebody else's behalf. I don't know what he saw inmate that I thought I could do this, I remember when we first started "The Five" six years ago, were talked about legalization of drugs, what do you think? I don't know. With some time and space to develop your career is actually developed here for me. I saw this George W. Bush doesn't think he would've been president if it hasn't been for Roger Ailes and the political consultancy that he provided for him and the humor. I would say this so I don't take up all the time. If you're interested and communications or television or you want to improve your own presentation style, Roger Ailes wrote a book called you are the message and it really is the one that you should, if you haven't read it yet, put it on your list or reread it, because it really gives you the best insight in how to be a good communicator. Its technology agnostic, it is about how to actually be the best communicator as you, my sympathies for his family.
GUILFOYLE: That was also very instrumental in my life and I remember it was part of the assigned reading at UC Davis and my rhetoric and communication class. It was a public speaking class and I loved the book, and I underlined, I highlighted it, the whole deal. I never forget the day I was on CNN, Roger Ailes would like to speak to you I was like well. Like "the wizard of oz"." I want to tell you I think you're doing a great job on television, interested in coming to the Fox News channel. I was so excited I bought my book and it was all marked up and I was so happy to have him sign it. To meet somebody that had such an incredible, form of impact on so many people's lives. I came over here and he took a chance on me and developed me from a prosecutor into a talent, he saw something in all of us, each of us has a unique story. What I really loved most about him as he was such a loyal person. He was very devoted to his employees whether you were on camera, off-camera, we all mattered. He cared about our families, what my father was dying he was there for me. He became a second father to me and I hope people understand that, because we all have different unique experience. This is a complicated life I think that he lived. He made me a better person. Certainly a better co-host and on-air talent, very good to my son, we share Sunday's -- it was all part of the family even though my parents have passed away and I have no family here. My heart goes out to Beth and Zachary who was a lovely young man who's been raised incredibly well, bless him and his commitment to not only the channel and all of our lives and to this country.
WILLIAMS: Looking at it from a purely political standpoint, I think he had a key role in Nixon, I think he had a key role in Reagan that is where I met him. I think he had a key role in George HW Bush's presidency. He not only created the top cable news channel in America, but he also put powerful people in office I'm just as her talk about Mitch McConnell, he wouldn't be there without Roger Ailes the senate majority leader. His influence and power is so incredible, I do think you've got to discuss, he left here and very troubled circumstances. Terrible charges against him, it's just not the Roger I knew, not the Roger I loved. He was so great to me and my family and he persuaded my wife that I should come here back in 1996, 97 when I first signed a contract, just a great guy all around.
WATTERS: At I'm incredibly grateful to work for Roger Ailes for 15 years, one of the most patriotic people I ever met. I love his country very much. One of the funniest people, probably I ever met, very quick-witted. Great judge of talent really understood the TV screen, an excellent storyteller and I owe everything to him. Fox has been my whole life and career the last couple years and it is unfortunate that he left here in conjunction with some of the charges, inappropriate behavior. I just want to say he is been a great father, great husband, I feel terrible for them and I wish them all the best and he is a very influential American.
GUTFELD: Just one last thing, I was watching Sean Hannity on Tucker and he said something that was so -- it sounded just like me. When Hannity started he said he was terrible. I was actually worse. The fact that somebody would stick with you when you are bad, he stuck with Hannity when Hannity claims he was bad. You should have seen redeye in 2007, a sweaty mess like me? He stuck with it may be because he wasn't watching it, but he stuck with it. Once again, our deepest condolences to the family, "The Five" returns in a moment.
GUILFOYLE: Time now for one more thing. Roger Ailes the founder of the company died today at the age of 77. Roger was a patriot, he love this country, especially the men and women in uniform. On a personal note, he first hired me in 2006 and he saw something in me and gave me the best opportunity, honestly, of my life. I will be forever grateful. He was the most generous open hearted man who prided himself on loyalty and that is exactly how I will remember him. Roger saw something in each and every one of us who work here at the Fox News channel. His camaraderie and positive attitude made this place thrive. He taught all of us to push ourselves, to believe in ourselves, if we could reach high to retire. May he rest in peace and god bless his wife Beth and son Zach, Juan?
WILLIAMS: First of all, God bless Roger. But it's been another crazy week in Washington if you have been watching the news especially Trump. While everyone think partisanship is at an all-time high, take a look at this picture. Here you have ultraconservative Arkansas center Tom Cotton, a never Trumper and Senator Ben of Nebraska and the leading Democrat in defiance of Trump Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. Immediately people began capturing this photo. Who tweeted, holy molly, it looks like Schumer and I are smoking reefer outside of wedding. They were not smoking reefer but as you can see in the second shot, Senator McCain joined in it so maybe there were a talk legalizing reefer.
PERINO: Video shows use of the Turkish thugs who were beating up American citizens on embassy row. Actually there's no video does date shot by voice of America that shows that Erdogan himself, the leader of Turkey, got out of the car and saw what was happening, blessed it, turn around and walked back into the embassy. I would ask Mr. President when you see Erdogan at the NATO meeting, punch back verbally. If he is able to deliver a message like this committee should do that NATO in front of all of those leaders.
WATTERS: Address a scandal called tie gate, I wore a tie last night that was very, very controversial. It was from britches in Chappaqua New York, I am actually wearing another Bridgette's tie right here, I was as wandering the woods looking for Hillary which are good to see on my weekend show on 8:00 on Saturday night.
GUTFELD: You tied it in.
GUILFOYLE: All right Gregg I am sorry, we don't have enough time.
GUTFELD: I self survive.
GUILFOYLE: All right set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is next, good night from New York City.
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