Trump rips new Kavanaugh claim

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Trump rips new Kavanaugh claim

Book alleges second exposure incident at party.

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," September 15, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: Breaking news on the Buzz Meter this Sunday: Two New York Times reporters say there was a second alleged incident of Brett Kavanaugh exposing himself at a drunken college party but without interviewing the source making the claim. President Trump calls the new account lies and says the Supreme Court justice should sue for libel.

As ABC frames the democratic debate mainly around liberal issues, the pundits grudgingly call Joe Biden a winner and pile on Julian Castro for suggesting the former VP has a really bad memory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC ANCHOR: Castrol essentially implied that Biden is senile.

There are so many things wrong with that, Joe.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: I believe it.

BRZEZINSKI: Rookie, low blow.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Julian is an enormously accomplished person. He's really gifted. That was disgraceful. It was way too low.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: That was like a mugging. I didn't like it. I didn't appreciate it. It was rude. It was ill-mannered. I think it was factually incorrect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And should the network be embarrassed that moderator Jorge Ramos was blatantly crusading for illegal immigration and denigrating President Trump?

An all-out spin war as the president ousts John Bolton, his national security adviser, with leaks on both sides about the two men clashing on foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: John Bolton is reported to have been maybe the key player in stopping the Taliban visit to Camp David and that frustrated the president and now John Bolton is gone. This is what happens if you do tell the president the truth.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: It is great news for America, especially for the large number of young people who would have been killed in pointless wars if Bolton had stayed on the job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Was the press right all along about the former Fox News contributor being increasingly sidelined in the White House? I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."

This is a Fox News alert. The New York Times began by deleting a tasteless tweet about a book essay by two of its reporters on the Brett Kavanaugh nomination fight. It's an odd opinion section piece that waits until the ninth paragraph to describe what's called new information about the allegations by Deborah Ramirez. She is the woman who took six days to assess her memories before telling The New Yorker that Kavanaugh exposed himself to her at a party at Yale, which he has flatly denied.

The Times's authors in their book say they spoke to seven people who heard about the alleged incident many years ago, and they published a second allegation about another drunken dorm party at Yale where Kavanaugh supposedly pulled down his pants and friends pushed a woman into touching him. And yet reporters didn't talk to the former classmate, Max Stier, who is claiming that this happened, but to two officials who communicated with him.

President Trump tweeted about the story this morning. "Now, the radical left Democrats and their partner, the lamestream media, are after Brett Kavanaugh again, talking loudly of their favorite word, impeachment. He is an innocent man who has been treated horribly. Such lies about him. They want to scare him into turning liberal." And the president said, "Brett Kavanaugh should start suing people for libel, or the Justice Department should come to his rescue."

Joining us now to analyze the coverage of this and other issues: Ben Domenech, founder and publisher of The Federalist; Susan Ferrechio, chief congressional correspondent of The Washington Examiner; and Jeanne Zaino, professor of media and government at Iona College.

Ben, we haven't read the book, but is it fair for The New York Times to have the reporters, Robin Pogrebin and Kate Kelly, drop this into an analysis piece, a charge of this magnitude against a sitting Supreme Court justice without the backup that ordinarily is required of a hard news story?

BEN DOMENECH, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER, THE FEDERALIST: Absolutely not, Howie. There are a number of things that, frankly, they leave out. Things are in some cases included in the book in a very quiet way. They just kind of go right past the point that you made in your open that this accuser, the supposed second accuser, is not someone who actually is making this claim. This is being claimed by someone associated -- removed.

They also don't make clear about who Max Stier is, mainly that he and Brett Kavanaugh have been on the opposite sides doing battle in the past. He is not just some --

KURTZ: Specifically how?

DOMENECH: They've been on the opposite side of the Clinton/Lewinsky battle where they clearly had, you know, an experience of opposition. That's something that should be included in any story of this magnitude.

KURTZ: Jeanne, you teach media in college. If the Times says that a former classmate, this guy Max Stier, is making this allegation about another drunken party -- remember, this is more than three decades ago -- and he refuses to talk and they talk to two people who talked to him, is that second-hand information enough to go with?

JEANNE ZAINO, MEDIA AND GOVERNMENT PROFESSOR, IONA COLLEGE: It's not enough. You need at least two sources. They should. The second allegation is the one I have the problem with. They say there is this allegation out there but the person who's making it, we haven't been able to talk to, but we talked to officials who talked to this person. That is not enough to print it, particularly in the newspaper.

Part of the problem here is they are taking an excerpt from a book, that they are advertising on behalf of these reporters, sticking it into the newspaper in the opinion section and using that as a basis to make these allegations. I think both of those things are problematic journalistically.

KURTZ: Susan, these may be lies, as the president says, but we don't know. The book hasn't been released yet. But it's two journalists reporting a book. Is the president on solid ground in saying first of all these are lies, second of all in saying that they are trying to intimidate Kavanaugh into what, making more liberal rulings, and finally in suggesting that a sitting Supreme Court justice sue for libel?

SUSAN FERRECHIO, CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, you know, he's a public figure, Kavanaugh, so I don't know about suing for libel. But the president makes a point and that The New York Times or at least through this book is trying to again frame Kavanaugh as someone who was drunken, sexual offender in college.

From what we can tell from the book so far, it's not backed up even in the book. I think that maybe why, you know, you and I are reporters, why did they write the story this way? Maybe it's so far down in the story because it's really not backed up by facts. It's just implied. Can you really make that kind of accusation against somebody without real facts, saying witnesses saw this? It's not there.

So I don't understand why they framed it that way other than to back up what the president is saying, which is that they want to portray Kavanaugh as some kind of sexual offender.

KURTZ: I reached out to Kavanaugh for comment. His team is deciding not to comment at least for now. What I am surmising is they don't want to fuel this story, although the president has kind of done that for them.

I obtained the relevant pages from this forthcoming book which is "The Education of Brett Kavanaugh: An Investigation." The woman, the alleged victim here, the woman who supposedly had to touch Kavanaugh's private parts at this long ago Yale party, she is named, by the way, although according to this telling she's a sexual assault victim.

Here is what the book says: She refused to discuss the incident, though several of her friends say she does not recall it. Now, that was left out of what The New York Times published today. If this happened, wouldn't she be very, very likely to recall it? And how do you leave that out of an account about a Supreme Court justice, Ben?

DOMENECH: I just think that this is so irresponsible on the part of the Times. I mean, we kind of skipped past one of the things which is this was not a good week for The New York Times social media team in a lot of different respects. They had to delete and apologize for a couple of different tweets.

But I think in the context of this story, what you're talking about is essential to be included in it. You can't just, to Susan's point, make this kind of implication, this massive kind of claim without including all the necessary facts that people need to know in order to make a fair assessment of it and to know what they don't know about the claim and what details have been left out.

KURTZ: Jeanne, this woman, I'm not going to name her. The Times does identify her by name. The alleged victim here whose friends say she does not remember this long ago incident, she does have the Times -- the book by the two Times reporters, those "written statement by her."

It's not about this. It's about vouching for her friend, Deborah Ramirez, saying she's honest and has integrity. It is not clear whether the written statement was made to the authors or they obtained it from venue.

ZAINO: Yeah. And, you know, I think that, again, is part of the problem, that we haven't had the benefit of reading the entire book yet. I mean, you obviously have excerpts. We haven't read it. The Times pulled out sections of this book which to all of these points is the problem, because you have allegations that are unsubstantiated.

I do think we have to differentiate between the first allegations for which there are apparently seven people who are corroborating and the second for which there is no corroboration. And to Ben's point, the tweet is absolutely despicable. They apologized. But to describe, if it happened, to describe it as harmless fun, to do that to a young woman, is absolutely unacceptable and the Times is going to have to take action on them.

KURTZ: Just to be clear on the Deborah Ramirez original allegation, she of course did not end up testify in the hearings. The seven people, according to this book, have said they had heard about it, but they're not eyewitnesses.

ZAINO: They were not.

KURTZ: And so I'm left thinking they don't have the classmate directly who is claiming this, and they don't have an on the record comment from the woman herself and her friends say she doesn't remember it. What do they have?

FERRECHIO: OK, so it's the way you package the story. You write it as though it's fact and then you put the lack of facts further down the story where nobody reads it. So the public perception is that it's fact. I watched it all unfold last night on social media, the way it is going today. People are looking at this as yet another very likely true allegation against Kavanaugh backed up by zero facts.

It's changing the narrative, and it's really about the media's own accountability here. Are we going to keep writing stories like this, reporting stories like this based on our own political biases to target people or support people depending on whether we like them or hate them? Reporters need to write about facts, and that's what they were supposed to do here.

KURTZ: Right. Obviously, many of us will have more to say after we've actually seen the book. Let me turn now to John Bolton, ousted this week after 17 months as President Trump's national security adviser, former Fox News contributor. Here's what the president said. He made pretty clear in speaking to reporters that he was unhappy with Bolton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He made some very big mistakes when he talked about the Libyan model for Kim Jong-un. That was not a good statement to make. He is somebody that I actually had a very good relationship with, but he wasn't getting along with people in the administration that I consider very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Ben Domenech, there's obviously been an avalanche of reporting and commentary about President Trump's horrible manager, this is his third national security adviser, almost everyone in his orbit flames out eventually. Has that overshadowed their fundamental differences on several foreign policy issues?

DOMENECH: You know, it is always funny to me the way that these stories play out in the media because someone will join the White House team and immediately be criticized as a terrible choice, you know? John Bolton is this warmonger coming in, he is inconsistent --

KURTZ: The wild man.

DOMENECH: He's a wild man, he's going to lead us into war, and then as soon as he leaves, oh, strange new respect. It's, oh, no, he was a strong hand at the wheel, you know? The now the president is going to be even crazier. To me, it is kind of ridiculous. The president clearly has differences with a lot of different people that he brings around and adjudicating those differences is something that's very important for a manager to do.

In this case, I think the problem wasn't just that John Bolton didn't see eye to eye with the president, it's that he had a difficult relationship with Secretary Pompeo and with other members of the president's team and that made things more and more difficult to function. But the way that this was depicted, whenever someone leaves, it always cracks me up.

KURTZ: In particular, liberals were outraged by John Bolton's appointment because he does have this very hawkish record and all the things that he said on Fox over the years, former acting U.S. and ambassador. And now, many of the same liberals are saying this is a terrible thing that Trump pushed him out.

ZAINO: Yeah. You almost get whiplash, right? Because when he's appointed, it's bemoaning the fact that he would make this appointment of such a hawk and somebody who diametrically opposes him. And then all of a sudden, it's become being fired by the president is somehow a hallmark that you have moved up your status or retiring or resigning, however this came out.

But, you know, to me, it's really a non-story. The story here should be a story about the impact on our foreign policy and Donald Trump's approach to foreign policy and leading the nation. That should be the story, not the comings and goings of Bolton.

KURTZ: Well, in fairness, some have tried to deal with that. Look, if he does even a (INAUDIBLE) then he will be a hero to the press.

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: Look, the president has a lot of turnover in this White House, fact. The president does like to hire TV commentators, Larry Kudlow from CNBC. But Bolton has more aggressive approach than Donald Trump on Iran, on Russia, on Syria, and of course on Afghanistan summit at Camp David which got cancelled. It cannot have been a secret to Donald Trump.

FERRECHIO: I was surprised when he joined the administration just based on what the president campaigned on; getting troops out of Afghanistan, more focus on the United States versus trying to change the world abroad. I was surprised. I didn't think he would last long based on that, I knew once they got to Afghanistan, things would really start to clash.

But the president said something interesting this week. He said, I'm really easy to work for because I make all the decisions. It is a warning to whoever takes Bolton's place.

KURTZ: But everybody wants the job. A little more on this after the break, and we'll also look at the coverage of the democratic debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The democratic debate in a moment, but just to finish up our conversation here with the panel on John Bolton leaving the White House, the final straw, Ben, was Bolton being opposed to the president, inviting Taliban leaders to Camp David to sign a peace deal in Afghanistan. Of course, the president canceled it in the wake of a car bombing.

At the same time, there were a lot of tensions about leaking to the press. When Trump met with the Kim Jong-un in the DMZ, Bolton who was off in Mongolia, disputed a New York Times story about an interim deal with North Korea. He said this publicly, some were trying to box in the president. Then Bolton was accused of leaking reporters' notes from an off the record briefing. There was a whole lot of (INAUDIBLE) press going on here.

DOMENECH: You know, I think that the president is certainly someone who dislikes people on his team leaking. I think that, you know, John Bolton, you know, whatever you think of him, is someone who has somewhat of a cozy relationship with a lot of people in the media.

KURTZ: In the media for years.

DOMENECH: In the media for years and you tend to talk to people like that. I think this is something that the president needs to be cognizant of when he's hiring people from the media to go into his administration.

KURTZ: Just briefly, I mean, the media establishing clearly disapproves of the way the president is constantly shuffling aides, but why shouldn't he have somebody who agrees with him on the major foreign policy issues and somebody who he's comfortable with? It's not like other presidents haven't dumped cabinet members and other top aides for various political and policy reasons.

ZAINO: Brookings has done a fascinating tracking of the amount of turnover in the administration. It is higher in the first and second year. We are in the third year. It's even lower than Obama. Presidents turn over staff. They turn over appointments. That is their absolute right to do that.

KURTZ: The press is often accused, Susan, of palace intrigue. There are a lot of stories about tension with Bolton and the president and others. Washington Post reported on August 30th that the White House had sidelined Bolton on Afghanistan, that he trades relations with colleagues. An embassy spokesman at the Times said that this was a biased report based on unconfirmed leaks and there's more truth in the National Enquirer. Ten days later, he's gone.

FERRECHIO: This happens a lot, doesn't it, where the White House denies something only for it to really be confirmed later through the president's actions. I think their big problem with this president is so many leaks out of his own White House.

KURTZ: Right.

FERRECHIO: It is really unbelievable.

KURTZ: It has been the problem since day one. I want to get to the debate. I think ABC's George Stephanopoulos and David Muir did a solid and substantive job at Jorge Ramos of Univision who was on that panel. Just take a look at a couple of the questions that he asked the candidates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: Are you prepared to say tonight that you and President Obama made a mistake about deportations? Why should Latinos trust you?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We didn't lock people up in cages, we didn't separate families.

RAMOS: President Trump has called Mexican immigrants rapists and killers, tried to ban Muslims from entering the country. Do you think that people who support President Trump and his immigration policies are racists?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG, SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: Anyone who supports this is supporting racism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Do you think Trump supporters are racists? How is Jorge Ramos able to sit on that ABC panel and crusade? Is that kind of an embarrassment to the network?

DOMENECH: You know, in 2016, I think everyone would agree that the most embarrassing debate moderation was done by John Harwood of CNBC. It was insulting. He talked to now-president Trump, saying he was running a comic book campaign.

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: Jorge Ramos, I think, on the scale of 10 being Harwood, he was like a solid eight. It was a situation where he was saying all of these things that are so opinionated and so aggressive and suggesting, offering all these different defenses up. You can't put someone who is that strong of an advocacy role on a debate panel and expect it to go well.

KURTZ: Jeanne, ABC certainly knew what it was getting with Jorge Ramos. I don't see virtually anyone in the mainstream media saying, you know, Jorge went too far, he's over the top, he's biased, he is supposed to be neutral. Remember, Fox can't host a DNC debate because it's so biased.

ZAINO: Yeah. And, you know, I would even go further than Ben. My problem is having networks at all host these debates. There was a time when the league of women voters was hosting debates. And when they were pushed out of that position, they said this is a charade being pushed on the American public by institutions that are designed to make money. That is a problem. You need independent organizations running these debates, not networks.

KURTZ: Yeah. My point is that Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum and Chris Wallace would be a lot more solid journalists than opinionated person like Jorge Ramos. Let me ask you, Susan. I thought maybe he would just make an attempt to tone it down through the duration of the debate since he was known as a crusader. You know, how dare the Obama administration enforce the law by deporting people who were here illegally, three million of them, your take?

FERRECHIO: I think they wanted that. I think ABC was looking for some sparks, and they got them. I think the debates for the primaries, yeah, it is OK to have someone like him doing that. I mean, they don't hide it anymore. They don't hide the bias in these debates anymore. I say it all the time.

It's fine when you're just talking just to Democrats. My concern is what's going to happen when we get to the general debate. That's when we need to be very careful who we put up there. I know there were accusations of bias last time. I say let C-SPAN do it this time. We need someone who is a real neutral person in there. That is the main problem.

KURTZ: It's a great suggestion. I don't see it happening. We have more to say about this. I don't think that everyone (INAUDIBLE) what Jorge Ramos did, but of course, the decision was made to put him on. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The most talked about, most buzzed-about moment at the democratic debate, ABC in Houston, was Julian Castro taking on Joe Biden. We're going to play the exchange, and we'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN CASTRO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you forgetting what you said two minutes ago? Are you forgetting already what you said just two minutes ago? I can't believe that you said two minutes ago that they had to buy in, and now you're saying -- you're forgetting that.

BIDEN: I said anyone --

CASTRO: I mean, look --

BIDEN: -- grandmother who has no money.

CASTRO: -- health care system --

BIDEN: -- you're automatically enrolled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: This was a dispute about what Biden had said a couple of minutes early about his Medicare option, proposal and, in fact, the unanimous verdict, Susan, of journalists was that Castro got it wrong on the facts. We can debate that, but what also happened is that as we played at the top, the pundits just completely came down on Julian Castro for what was described as a low blow. Is this an example of journalists blowing the whistle as referees?

FERRECHIO: I don't think they should have blown the whistle on this one, because I thought it was right for him to question what really is in his plan here. Do they have to buy in? You just said they didn't, but now you're saying they do. That's part of the problem --

KURTZ: But that is not exactly what he did. I mean, by saying, are you forgetting, are you forgetting --

FERRECHIO: Well --

KURTZ: -- even though Castro later said, oh, I wasn't referring to --

FERRECHIO: OK.

KURTZ: He was clearly trying to say that the 76-year-old former vice president can't keep his facts straight.

FERRECHIO: The last people should be blowing the whistle on this or the media because they have been writing endlessly about bias, mixing up facts, forgetting stories, all these blunders along the way, questioning his age, so why shouldn't one of the candidates?

KURTZ: All right, maybe because he denied that he was doing that very thing. Ben, I'd like to hear you on this, but also in a broader sense. And, again, I think Stephanopoulos and Muir did a good job, but with ABC's heavy focus on racism, on immigration, universal health care, not even a challenge to Beto O'Rourke say, hell, yes, we'll take away your AR-15, was this a debate that was pretty much conducted in the left lane?

DOMENECH: It was entirely conducted in the left lane. I feel like there were so many questions that could have been asked that are extremely important that weren't. We didn't get a question about the economy. We didn't get a question about how a lot of these ambition plans that they have are ever going to be the passed or come to fruition given the makeup of the Congress. How would you make these impossible dreams a reality?

Those are things that are practical and real and completely ignored by the debate that focused on the most hot-button issues, trying to create the most hot moment, trying to create television as opposed to answers for the voters.

KURTZ: In fairness, they only had three hours.

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: And then Joe Biden was asked about a 40-year-old quote, essentially about slavery reparations. I'll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago. There was certainly time for it.

Jeanne, I think the consensus, certainly in my view, is that this was Joe Biden's most forceful debate. He had a lousy first debate. And he had missteps and the pundits kind of grudgingly said that he won. Isn't it clear that most of the reporters and commentators are not fans of this 76- year-old winning the nomination?

ZAINO: Yeah. I mean, of course, because he's been leading in the polls most of the time --

KURTZ: Despite all the, like, next week he's going to implode because this controversy happened or this bad debate happened or he made this mistake, and I'm not saying we shouldn't cover his misstatements and gaffes, but the media seems to think that he's going to slip on a banana peel any moment.

ZAINO: Well, I think that's what they're waiting for. And, you know, to Ben's point, I mean, because this is how you get ratings. You can't write that, you know. He's the front-runner, and he's made no mistakes. He's made no unforced errors.

KURTZ: Right, boring.

ZAINO: It's boring. You got to write something. The more mistakes he makes, the happier they are to report it, which is fine but it's not in the interest of democracy.

KURTZ: Democrats who like Biden told Politico that they think the many of the 20 and 30-something reporters who are covering Biden think he's just not cool enough, knows what is in the Constitution that you had to be --

ZAINO: He talked about record players, so --

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: Yes, he did talk about record players.

FERRECHIO: Those are cool again. They're cool again.

KURTZ: I don't know, I like mine. All right, Jeanne Zaino, Susan Ferrechio, Ben Domenech, thanks very much for covering so much ground with us. Ahead, NFL star Antonio Brown ready to debut the New England Patriots today. How is the press covering the sexual assault lawsuit against him? But first, the ouster John Bolton leads one paper to call Donald Trump (INAUDIBLE). Sean Spicer is up, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: And joining us now from Los Angeles, Sean Spicer, the former White House press secretary and senior advisor to the America First PAC. Sean, welcome.

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.

KURTZ: We were talking a few moments ago about -- good morning to you. We were talking a few moments ago about John Bolton being kind of pushed out of the White House. You had the experience of resigning from the White House.

And the president was unhappy with the press operation. After Bolton and Jim Mattis and Rex Tillerson and many others, the media verdict seems to be that the president eventually loses patience with almost everyone who works with him. Your thoughts?

SPICER: I think in this case it's a little bit different. I think, obviously, Ambassador Bolton has served this country well. But at some point, the president needs people surrounding him who want to implement his agenda and not theirs.

And there's clearly right now a divide between what Ambassador Bolton thought was the correct foreign policy particularly with respect to Syria and other Libyan or hot spots.

But Secretary Pompeo and the president think otherwise and I think the president clearly deserves to have people around him that agree with his foreign-policy. They may challenge him and bring up other ideas --

KURTZ: Right.

SPICER: -- but don't fundamentally have a different way of thinking.

KURTZ: Right. Now the Washington Post analysis of this is that the president sometimes has a Kafkaesque management style which he doesn't want his appointee to get bad press but he doesn't want them to get too much good press and he demands absolute fealty in the words of this article.

SPICER: Well, again, this is more of a policy thing than anything else. I don't think that John Bolton was on the cover of too many magazines or out in front of it.

But I think what press there was, was talking about the divergence that they had on the hot spots that currently exist particularly in North Korea and Syria and other places, Iran where Ambassador Bolton showed a difference of what he wanted or what he thought the right policy was.

And the president deserves to have people around him that understand his agenda and are ready to implement and not go in a different direction. It's one thing to challenge him to challenge him and bring up new ideas, it's another thing to not follow through in the direction once the president hears you out and makes a decision.

KURTZ: Right. Let's turn to the breaking news. New York Times story today to reporters who have written a book about Brett Kavanaugh nomination, saying that there is a second allege, and this is, you know, 35 years ago party at Yale, drunken dorm party which the now Supreme Court justices said to have exposed himself.

The problem with the story as we talked about earlier is that the former classmate who is making this claim didn't talk to the reporters. They say they talked to two people who talk to the classmates and the woman who allegedly was the victim of this supposed incident didn't talk at all and her friends say she doesn't remember it.

SPICER: Well, and they didn't talk to Kavanaugh either. So that's a big --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: But they did -- they did asked -- they did asked to speak to Kavanaugh and he declined.

SPICER: Correct.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: But your thoughts on whether the story should have been published.

SPICER: Correct. But there are two sources in this. One that clearly know. One is Kavanaugh, one is Ms. Ramirez. Neither one of them spoke to the Times. That seems problematic on its face that neither person who our primary sources in this particular story were spoken to that in itself.

I, actually, Howie, will go, and I know it's getting lost in the coverage the tweet that the Times put out was unbelievably well beyond the word insensitive and I don't even know what words come to mind right now. But the idea that there is not outrage on the left. Where's Kirsten Gillibrand? Where is Hillary Clinton?

The idea that they used the language that they did and I will not repeat it here on television, in that tweet and there's no outrage from these people who have stood up and talked about fighting for women and all of these inappropriate remarks is disgusting.

The idea that other colleagues at the New York Times who sit there and watch this happen aren't speaking out and saying this is not acceptable at the times.

Time and time again the New York Times has a pattern of doing inappropriate things. Last week, we saw the political editor reveal all of these anti- Semitic tweets and everyone at the New York Times that sits there and lets it goes by is complicit.

So, for all the talk about what Donald Trump says and does that coming from the New York Times they need to mind their own house first. They've got a problem with anti-Semitic comments from their own staff. This was clearly a highly inappropriate tweet that was put out.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Right. Here's to --

SPICER: Another example of the folks online doing stuff and the idea that everyone washes it away. The New York Times has a serious problem. And the idea that every one of those journalists that work there, their other colleagues and these folks on the left that claim to have this holier than thou attitude are silent just shows you the hypocrisy that goes on right now.

KURTZ: Let me jump in and clarify. The Times did delete the tweet. It began with, essentially a woman being confronted --

(CROSSTALK)

SPICER: Right. And by the way they said it was -- whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, Howie.

KURTZ: Sean, let me finish. Sean, let me finish.

SPICER: They said -- they said it was poorly worded then they got hit again, then they deleted it.

KURTZ: OK.

SPICER: Then they finally said they apologized.

KURTZ: All right. Without repeating it, it had to do with a woman being confronted with someone's genitals and it was utterly tasteless. The anti- Semitic comments by this editor were from 10 years ago but I agree with your overall point.

Let me turn finally to Andrew McCabe, the former -- the fired deputy director of the FBI. He was recently hired as a CNN contributor. He is now according to the many reports at Fox and elsewhere --

SPICER: Right.

KURTZ: -- facing a likely indictment. What position does that put CNN in which puts him on the air and colleagues are saying he's a great colleague but he could well be facing criminal charges?

SPICER: Look, I went on -- I'm about to go on Dancing with the Stars. Chris Cillizza and Brian Stelter at -- the online P.R. person for CNN literally had a meltdown that I was doing a dancing show, and yet they hire a guy that's about to be indicted for lying and they sit there and make excuses over and over again why that's acceptable.

Let's call it -- let's look at their story. He lacked candor. He was faulted. That all of the buzzwords except for lying. Everyone in the Trump world is a liar but when they hire someone that lacked candor or they weren't fully -- all of these other buzzwords.

CNN has two standards. One for everyone who is against Trump and one for everyone who works with Trump. But they can't have it both ways.

KURTZ: OK.

SPICER: They want to excuse everybody that supports this president but as long as you're lying to go against the president for this greater good that they're brought in on that's OK.

KURTZ: We got to go but tomorrow is your first tape show for Dancing with the Stars, are you going to win this thing?

SPICER: No, it's live.

KURTZ: It's live. Shall we boost expectations, are you planning on going all the way?

SPICER: Well, look, the Vegas odds have me at the bottom at 15 to one.

KURTZ: All right.

SPICER: So, if you're looking to make a couple of bucks you might -- you might want -- you might make a few shows. We'll see. I'm going for that mirror ball and the campaign starts.

KURTZ: All right. We'll see how that turns out. I'll save my money. Sean Spicer, thanks very much.

SPICER: Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ: And after the break, the CIA flatly denying a CNN story blaming the president in part for having the U.S. yank a Kremlin's spy out of Moscow. Steve Hayes is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The CNN spy story contains an explosive charge based on a single unnamed source in explaining why the U.S. pulled a high-level Russian spy out of Moscow back in 2017. The report was by anchor Jim Sciutto.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A person directly involved in the discussion said that the removal of the Russian was driven, in part, by concerns that President Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source as a spy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: But the New York Times pretty much knock that down citing formal intel officials saying, quote, "There was no public evidence that Trump directly endangered the source."

And the Washington Post agreed. CIA flatly denied the story as did its former chief, Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I've seen that reporting. The reporting is material and inaccurate and you should know. As a former CIA director, I don't talk about things like this very often. It is only the occasions when there's something that I think that puts people at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now, Steve Hayes, a Fox News contributor a former editor of the Weekly Standard who is launching a new media venture with Jonah Goldberg. Steve, welcome back.

STEVE HAYES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Howie, good to be back.

KURTZ: What do you make of CNN's single source story especially with two major newspapers saying the part about it, kind of, sort of, being Trump's fault isn't true.

HAYES: Yes. Well, I think not just the fact that the Times and the Post knockdown the story or at least dented it I think pretty significantly. It's significant but how they did it.

You read the comment from the New York Times knocking down part of the story that the Washington Post reported that the exfiltration was not the reason for the decision to remove the CIA source.

So that's a pretty categorical reputation of what Jim Sciutto had reported.

I think the question to me anyway is the timeframe. The original asset -- the asset was originally offered out of Russia in the late 2016.

KURTZ: Now I think that was before Trump was president.

HAYES: That is before Trump was president.

HAYES: That is before Trump was president.

KURTZ: Right.

HAYES: Six months before the meeting in the Oval Office where sensitive information was disclosed by President Trump to Russian.

KURTZ: The Russian ambassador --

(CROSSTALK)

HAYES: But the timing --

KURTZ: The Russian foreign minister. OK.

HAYES: Correct.

KURTZ: But Jim Sciutto says in the story. And so, the analysis (Ph) on part of it at the end of the Obama administration, U.S. intelligence officials had already expressed concerns about the safety of the spy.

What he doesn't mention is that he was a political appointee in the Obama administration. He doesn't mention on air, he doesn't mention on the online version. Does this cast a shadow over the report?

HAYES: Look, I think there's some really interesting question. I think one of the most interesting questions that we deal with as journalists, on one hand, you know, as somebody who's run a media organization, I think it would be tremendously valuable to have somebody with the kind of experience inside the administration that Jim Sciutto brings to reporting.

On the other hand, you're going to want to disclose that as often as is feasible, as often as possible to let news consumers know that this could be shaping the way that you are delivering the news.

KURTZ: Right. You take it into account. Obviously, all sorts of former administration people who appears as commentators on television and on op-ed pages but he is a reporter in this case, as well as an anchor, but I think that's a fair-minded answer.

Let me turn since we're on sort of foreign policy. The president, I mean this was a bombshell from last weekend revealing that he canceled this planned summit with Taliban leaders at Camp David days before the 9/11 anniversary to basically sign a peace deal with the Taliban.

That was vigorously opposed by John Bolton. It really was the triggering reason that the sort of final straw in him leaving the White House. Even some of your fellow conservatives were highly critical of the president for even considering this particularly the venue, Camp David.

HAYES: Yes. I mean, it's an incredible story. And I think the fact that the president had kept this secret suggest that this is a different way of operating for this president of the United States.

The news media was blindsided by this. Most people including intelligence folks that I have been talking to didn't have any idea that this was --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Well, raising the question how did it not leak?

HAYES: Right. How did it not leak?

KURTZ: Well, I think part of the reason is he didn't tell many of the people in his own administration to protect the security of it, and that's fine. I mean, presidents should be able to keep secrets.

(CROSSTALK)

HAYES: I think that's part of it. And I also think that if you look at the history of the president's decision-making, particularly on national securities like this like Iran, it's an ad hoc decision-making process. He changes his mind a lot. He will do sort of last-minute high drama --

KURTZ: Well --

HAYES: -- high-stakes news.

KURTZ: -- we were 10 minutes from bombing Iran and the president pulled back. And I know he often gets criticized for this but he just has a different manners and styles. I think the press doesn't like his management style. He doesn't like the last minute and even the things like trade negotiations and back and forth.

HAYES: Right.

KURTZ: But maybe it's time to stop grading him the way traditional previous presidents have run that office.

Let me ask you about the Bolton situation because it was such a huge new story. I mean, you know, John Bolton very high-profile guy with hawkish views that were no secret and particularly given his years as a Fox News contributor.

Do you think the story overall was overplayed? I mean, all these people are essentially just staff. On the other hand, the argument is well, he's the third national security adviser that the president has been throwing almost three years and it was kind of a messy exit, I would say then disputing I resigned, no, you were told to resign.

HAYES: No, I think actually, it was probably underplayed honestly. I mean, if you look at this in historical context and if this weren't the Trump presidency and something unfolded like what unfolded, I mean, it would be the only story. It would be the thing that we were talking about for --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: It was for a day, yes.

HAYES: -- a week but in this case, I think --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: So why was it underplayed?

HAYES: Because I think this is the way that the president, as you said, this is the way that he makes his decisions. We had such significant high- level turnover under President Trump. Fifty-one very senior administration officials have come and gone at a rate much higher than Barack Obama or George W. Bush or Bill Clinton.

KURTZ: Yes.

HAYES: That said --

KURTZ: So what?

HAYES: Well, I think it's significant. I think it tells us about the way the president makes decisions. And if I'm a reporter I want to know, I want to provide as much insight as I possibly can into how the president makes the decisions.

I think what was most interesting and I think what the media missed on this is the president's suggestion that he didn't know what John Bolton believes about these things. I mean, John Bolton has been making the same arguments for three decades on a lot of these issues.

KURTZ: I don't he suggested that. In fact, the president had publicly kind of joked about well, he'd be in four wars now according to an official who knew John Bolton. I have other voices. I think he wanted him in there as a dissenter but maybe the dissent has got to be too much and maybe, you know, it became abrasive over time.

HAYES: I mean, that's a plausible theory but I think if you look at what the president tweeted, he's basically saying this guy didn't agree with me. Well, if he didn't agree with you before he came in if you have the same views. I think Donald Trump is one whose views have changed more than John Bolton's.

KURTZ: Steve Hayes, I got to go. Thanks so much for joining us.

HAYES: Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ: Still to come, it was controversial for the New England Patriots to sign receiver Antonio Brown. How should the press cover this sexual assault lawsuit against the NFL star?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: It was rather controversial with the New England Patriots signed Antonio Brown, probably the best wide receiver in the NFL whose off-the-field clashes with coaches and teammates let his last two teams to dumped him but suddenly it became far more than a sports story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We begin this morning with a bombshell, though, in the world of sports.

One of the most prominent wide receivers in the NFL Antonio Brown has been accused of rape in a new lawsuit.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: This complaint from this woman against Antonio Brown is explicit, it's graphic, it sounds violent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And joining us now is Britt McHenry, a former ESPN reporter who hosts "Un-PC" on Fox Nation. So, how should the press cover this explosive lawsuit by Antonio Brown's former trainer Britney Taylor, incidents that she says happened in 2017, 2018 that just happened to be filed like the day after he joined the Patriots.

And Brown, of course, is denying these allegations and through his lawyer says there was at one encounter that was consensual.

BRITT MCHENRY, FOX NATION HOST: I think they need to stick to statements that have been said, to the facts of this case as they unfold.

I would like to believe and what I've noticed from several of my former colleagues in sports media is that they have done a good job up to this point. I wasn't satisfied with some pregame coverage today.

I think the NFL network was talking about how much of a great target he'll be for the New England Patriots, that's the team that's won six championships. Did they even need him? No.

ESPN got it right when (Inaudible) said, as a former captain of the Patriots I would not be happy with this man just coming on to the team and still playing and being in that locker room. And I agree with him.

KURTZ: Well, the NFL is investigating. The New England Patriots are waiting on that investigation so Brown is eligible to play today.

Here's a quick bite of Coach Bill Belichick kind of dodging the question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you aware of the lawsuit when you signed Antonio Brown?

BILL BELICHICK, GENERAL MANAGER, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: I'm not going to be expanding on the statements that I've already been given.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you think the fans deserve to hear a little more from you on --

(CROSSTALK)

BELICHICK: When we know more, we'll say more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Famously taciturn.

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: What about the way in which the whole sort of Brown saga has been covered all of the past problems and altercations but now this very serious allegation of rape and other forms of sexual assault?

MCHENRY: yes. It's been nothing short of a circus since he was what now seems campaigning actively to leave Oakland with his juvenile antics. I think the press as a whole could have been better at that time. It was an example of Twitter journalism where each insider wanted to break the next story and where is he going to next, does he is going to stay there.

I think in this case as I said, there's been thoughtful reporting about Britney Taylor's allegations. She speaking to the NFL tomorrow. They are fast tracking that.

KURTZ: So, the lawsuit includes --

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: -- some pretty ugly text --

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: -- to have been sent by Antonio Brown to his former trainer. So, Washington Post sports columnist Sally Jenkins says it's hard to give Brown the benefit of the doubt when he texted this woman that she was a weak b___h and a fake hoe. USA Today cites a lot of the incidents including shoving to the ground the mother of one of his children.

So, it's hard for the press, I think to separate his controversial history with whether these particular allegations are true.

MCHENRY: He set himself up to really have a wrestling heel persona in the worst kind of way leading into a very serious situation now. So, yes, I agree with you, Howard. He has not put himself in a great light.

It's disappointing. I think, personally, the Patriots could have decided to sit him for the game today at least until the woman is able to testify in front of NFL officials.

He won't get the benefit of the doubt in the media. He hasn't so far. But again, I think it's important for people not to speculate one way or the other and just report the facts.

KURTZ: Good advice. I'm not sure everybody, particularly in the sports media will follow it.

MCHENRY: Yes.

KURTZ: But great to see you, Britt McHenry.

MCHENRY: Good to be with you.

KURTZ: And that is it for this edition of "Media Buzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. Check out my podcast, "Media Buzz Meter." You can subscribe at foxnewspodcast.com, Apple iTunes or Google Play. We hope you also continue the conversation on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. Or check out our Facebook page. We post my daily columns and original videos there.

We had a lot of breaking news to deal with today but that's what's always challenging about the television business. We are back here next Sunday.

You know the time, 11 Eastern. See you then with the latest Buzz.

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