Trump rips Cohen after plea deal, cooperation with Mueller

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 29, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Emily Compagno, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York, and this is "The Five."

President Trump blasting Michael Cohen after his former lawyer pleads guilty to lying to Congress and agrees to cooperate with the special counsel. Cohen saying in court today that he misled Congress about the timeline of a potential Trump organization real estate deal in Moscow, Cohen originally telling lawmakers talks ended in January 2016, but he's now claiming they didn't wrap up until June of the same year. Trump slamming his former attorney in the wake of these developments.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He's a weak person and not a very smart person. He's got himself a big prison sentence and he's trying to get a much lesser prison sentence by making up a story. Now, here's the thing, even if he was right, it doesn't matter because I was allowed to do whatever I wanted during the campaign. Well, he's lying about a project that everybody knew about. I mean, we were very open with it. We were thinking about building a building. I decided, ultimately, not to do it. There would have been nothing wrong if I did do it.


WATTERS: Meanwhile, investigation-happy Democrats, like little Adam Schiff, are not satisfied with Trump providing written answers to Robert Mueller. Sherrod Brown also hinting the Russian investigation is only the beginning of what's coming.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: There really needs to be a live interview with the president because you need to be able to ask fault questions in real time.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: There will be investigations of the president using his office to enrich his family. There will be investigations on other things.


WATTERS: Trump is warning Democrats against what he's calling presidential harassment. The president saying he's a counter puncher and may declassify devastating Russia probe documents if they don't back down. What's so funny, Juan? You know those documents are devastating.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Devastating. Devastating.


WILLIAMS: You know, this is the thing about Trump, he always -- you know - - that the advertising, the hype, the Christmas season is here. But with Trump it's every day. It's bigger. It's grander. It's going to be the best --

WATTERS: Let's talk about the Michael Cohen situation. So, Trump's legal team is saying what he told Robert Mueller about the Russian deal -- it wasn't even a deal, it matches what -- with Cohen's statement in court today. And there's really no discrepancy.


WATTERS: So what's the big deal? Robert Mueller never asked him when the deal fell apart or when it ended, so what's the problem?

WILLIAMS: Listen, he -- Trump was tweeting in the middle of 2016 after the primaries that there was no deal, nothing going on, no relation, no business going on with Russia.

WATTERS: There was no deal.

WILLIAMS: And what we know now from Cohen's plea deal today, Jesse, is that, in fact, he was not only continuing to do this deal, not only continuing to brief Trump on it, but actually in touch with Vladimir Putin's office in order to try to get the deal done. So Trump was trying to make money while he's running for president, doesn't tell the American people this, which it says suggests that he's about his interests, his making money --

WATTERS: Everybody knows he was running the Trump organization when he was running for president --


WILLIAMS: OK. So why didn't he say straight up. Hey, I'm still trying to get a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. No, he didn't do that. He lied about it.

WATTERS: Well, there was no deal. I guess in your opinion, a deal happens before you sign it, but that's not --

WILLIAMS: No, no, what he said was he had nothing, no contact, no business dealings going on with Russia. That's what he said.

WATTERS: OK. Emily, if you are now working with people like Michael Cohen, who's lied a few times, and you're working with Manafort who's also lied, and Rick Gates who's also lied, are you now saying that when they're offering this new testimony that it's not believable because, you know, they're facing hard prison time? Because a lot people are saying that's the reason they've changed their stories.

EMILY COMPAGNO, GUEST CO-HOST: You can absolutely make that argument, right, that the reason that credibility is pierced is because, obviously, here's a career criminal liar. But that's when corroborating evidence comes into play. That's when the prosecution has to step up and do their job and say it doesn't matter whether you believe this person in this moment based on their history, here's why we are proving when they are lying and when they are telling the truth. So, it means that you need to take the step further in prosecution part. I want to point something else out as well. Just going back to Jim Corsi -- Jerome Corsi --

WATTERS: We know him as Jiff.

COMPAGNO: Yeah. I want to point out though that people continue predicting prosecution's behavior and kind of trying to ascribe a certain set of structure and parameters to what's going to happen next, not only this investigation but the ancillary ones with prosecutions. And you can never predict and you can never ascribe a certain set of rules, and the reason I'm bringing that up is because with Corsi, he gave them everything voluntarily. He literally sat down with them and said this is my password and here's my phone, here's everything I own and let me help you. And then they called him on something where he said --


COMPAGNO: He called them on something where he said, oh, I don't remember. And they then circled back and said here's evidence to the contrary. He then amended his answer formally and then they still threatened these felony charges of being untruthful under oath in this investigation. So the fact that the prosecution can do whatever they want. They can change their mind. They can make decisions that don't make sense to us or that suddenly represent a tangent in their development means that for all of us trying to kind of predict or read the tea leaves, anything is possible at this point.

WATTERS: Yeah, these are brass knuckle players. I mean, you saw the Ted Stevens situation. The same guys were involved in that. And the Enron situation --

WILLIAMS: You know, Jesse, I just want to interject -- I know we've been quick about it, but you're suggesting to Emily that, gee, these guys are liars. They lied about things in the past. But we know from Manafort, right, that in fact he is checked by the prosecutor and that's why the prosecutor broke the plea deal and that's why Trump is now floating the idea of a pardon for Manafort.

WATTERS: Did he float it?

WILLIAMS: I think he floated it.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I don't think he floated it.

WILLIAMS: He said it's not off the table, literary.

WATTERS: OK, so --

PERINO: That's not floating --

WILLIAMS: What is that? What's that? It's putting it out there.


WATTERS: Dana, so, you know, he's going overseas, just about to take off, and Mueller drops this thing -- in Helsinki, the same thing happened.

PERINO: Dana's rule of thumb --

WATTERS: What's that?

PERINO: -- any time the President of the United States, no matter who it is, travels overseas to one of these big meetings, something happens in domestic politics that keeps your attention divided, and it's frustrating because now you're on a time difference, you're trying to do things with all these other leaders, the G20 leaders, and get that done. So -- but they'll be fine. I actually think that President Trump should -- I think he should defer to Rudy Giuliani, say I'm going to be gone for three days. I want you to be the spokesperson on this. You handle it, and I'm going to focus on the business at hand as the President of the United States.

WATTERS: So no tweeting at all?

PERINO: I'm not going to tell him not to tweet. But I think that in terms of engaging -- like today, when he took all of those questions today, I don't think that he needs to do that. When he's in Argentina, he did that today he said what he had to say. And now he can go and do the important business that a President of the United States --

WILLIAMS: But, Dana, he canceled a meeting with Putin.

PERINO: Yes, he did. I think that's the right thing to do.

WATTERS: Well, maybe he's not in bed with Putin as everybody suggests. Greg, did today's developments make you more or less interested in the story?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I have a series of four points, and I don't know if I should do them all or just pick one. Let's do them all. All right. Number one, to Emily's point, I don't know Cohen at all, but these crimes seem to be created by an investigation of crimes they couldn't find. So when you find out there's not enough there, you start looking for something else. Or maybe it's just a crime of opportunity or a searching for a crime of opportunity, meaning to stop the guy for jaywalking hoping he has pot in his pocket. And I think when you pull somebody like Cohen in, you're kind of hoping maybe he's going to lie. And guess what? To quote Juan, he did lie, but that's because he likes to lie, and a lot of lawyers, and a lot of handlers, and a lot of muscle men, they lie.


GUTFELD: I'm sorry. Except for Emily. Now I'm with Trump on --

WATTERS: Best lawyer.

GUTFELD: -- working until you become president. I think -- if I were considering running in 2020, and I do TV for a living, I'm not going to turn down a lucrative gig selling caviar in St. Petersburg because, you know, I may lose.

PERINO: Might lose.

GUTFELD: So that's why -- he's saying like I've got a job. And by the way, it didn't work out. It doesn't mean he's lying. Now the timeline -- now here's the nut of this. It's about a timeline difference, about a real estate deal that happened before an election that never actually happened. You would find more meat at PETA headquarters. This is like really hard. So, again, in the absence of bad news about our great country, the media needs this story. Might have use a metaphor?

WATTERS: Please.

GUTFELD: If Donald Trump were like an amusement park, right? There's all of these great rides. You have the low unemployment log ride. You have the property and prosperity carousel. You have the wages waterslide. You have the peace pendulum. But where's the media? They're all at the worst ride there is, it's the Mueller teacups. They're spinning around, they vomit, inducing orgy, ignoring all the great rides that America is enjoying because we're having such a great time. They need Mueller.

WATTERS: All right. Heads explode on The View after finding out Obama treated migrants the same way President Trump --

GUTFELD: I have another point.


WATTERS: I think you've said enough. That's ahead.


WILLIAMS: Amid the continuing crisis with the migrant caravan, some on the left outraged over comparison to how President Trump's predecessor handled similar situations at the border.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last I've checked President Obama is no longer in office. Trump is in office. And this -- but Obama defense, you know, doesn't work for me. That's not to say using tear gas, I think it's immoral when you're using tear gas against children. But ProPublica just found that the Trump administration has secretly continued to separate kids from their families. The Obama administration, they never did that. You know, the ACLU says that kind of separation is unprecedented. So this whole, but Obama did it, but Obama did it, I don't care what Obama did. I care what Trump is doing right here, right now.


WILLIAMS: Meanwhile, Homeland Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen shooting down claims that all the migrants are asylum-seekers.


KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Ultimately, we only see about 9 percent, 10 percent of Central Americans who make an asylum claim actually be granted asylum by an immigration judge. If you're coming to get a job, that's not a claim for asylum. If you're coming to be with your family, that's not a claim for asylum.


WILLIAMS: So, Jesse, why don't you respond to what you just saw on The View. I think she was making the argument that this is what-about-ism and, of course, we've got a crisis now.

WATTERS: You came to the right person about what-about-ism, Juan. I'll get to that in a minute. I do want to say about the separating the children thing, someone was just brought over here with a young person and they found out that it wasn't a relationship at all. He was raping her and trafficking her. And also, the Obama administration was responsible for placing young people in human smuggling rings that brought them up to Ohio and were working like seven days a week, 16 hours a day. And, you know, if Trump had done that, can you imagine the outrage? Talk about what-about- ism. I want to do a little experiment.


WATTERS: Let's reverse the name Trump and Obama with Obama scandals, OK? Let's just see how you react.


WATTERS: Let's say there were alt-righters in MAGA hats with Billy clubs outside of a polling station intimidating black voters from voting. And then -- you know, A.G. at the time, Whitaker, let's say, just gives them a slap on the wrist, OK? How would you feel about that? Also, another one, what about if Trump sold Mexican cartels handguns and rifles, and those rifle shot a U.S. border patrol agent and then Whitaker wouldn't give any documents to Congress and was held in contempt. Outrageous. What if Trump bombed the bejesus out of Libya, you know, got the dictator out of there, created a failed state, then their ambassador died and then they blamed it on a filmmaker and arrested him and then lied about it. Imagine if Trump had done some of the things that Obama did, you guys would've been freaking out.

WILLIAMS: I think you're in a fever state, but I do think -- I do think when these things happen --


WILLIAMS: -- you absolutely went bonkers on Obama, am I right?

WATTERS: Justifiably.

WILLIAMS: Oh, OK. I just want to be clear. And so, Emily, the argument here, I think, comes down to this that there were incidents -- incidents in which the Obama administration used tear gas at the border. The question is, whether or not, and this is the argument coming from the left, they use them on children and people seeking asylum as opposed to people who were engaged in assault versus the customs and border patrol agents.

COMPAGNO: Right. I think that argument starts parsing and it gets beside the point, which is the fact that border skirmishes have decreased from the past administration to now. And that is notwithstanding the fact that drug and cartel involvement has increased in the last eight years by almost 40 percent, and smuggling seizures at the border have increased by a factor of ten. So what I'm trying to say is that the efficiency at the border now and the respect we should have for those who are securing our border physically for us at the southern line right now should be off the charts.

And to go and to respond to the comment on The View, to me it belies an ignorance. It's exactly the point. We should care what happened under the prior administration because we should know what the laws are and what the laws aren't, and where the confusion lies, and why a subsequent administration can do things just like a prior one did or didn't. So that we know and can lobby our legislators and stop talking about it on talk shows and actually --


COMPAGNO: -- have something substantive to say.

WILLIAMS: So, Dana --

PERINO: I'm going to yield my time to Emily.


WILLIAMS: But the question is, Dana, again, the use of tear gas or similar materials against children. I think that's what -- especially those pictures --

PERINO: Just remember --

WILLIAMS: -- caught the attention of the American people.

PERINO: Of course, this -- I go back to this. I don't think there's a single border patrol agent that wanted to use tear gas. They don't want to have to be in this position. And remember, teargas is a way to deal with crowds that are getting out of control in a way that doesn't have disproportionate force, right? You use teargas to disperse the crowd. It's not that they want to do it. That's why the Obama team did it. That is why it's happening. And remember, it's not that the border patrol or the Trump administration that brought the children up. One thing that I think is good is that you start hear reports today that some of the people there are realizing that they are not going to get asylum, this is not going to work, and they're deciding to turn back.

WILLIAMS: And, Greg, you know, we have is a situation there and saying -- you have now reports of squalid conditions for people. Long, long waits, which comes to Dana's point as to why people maybe just leaving. And the question is, are we, in fact -- there's a Trump administration, in fact, creating a situation where people don't even get to apply for a legal asylum.

GUTFELD: That's a easy question, of course, not. For one thing, they aren't gassing children. That is a -- what they're trying to do is say, under Obama, we only shot these things at adults, but the Trump administration, they're aiming at kids. That is not true. That's fake. OK, here's an uncomfortable truth about all of these. In terms of pepper spray and gas, Trump has actually -- sounds to me, Obama did it 80 times? That Trump uses less of it because Trump's stance on immigration was unambiguous. He was metaphorically the wall. He said don't come here. We're going to repel you. We do not believe that you're refugees. We believe you're cutting in line. Therefore, that gave a message fewer people were coming. And therefore, you didn't need to use these kinds of dispersing effects.

So, I think, President Obama may have seem more compassionate, but by being ambiguous about the border and not telling people right away what our stance is encouraged people to come, and then you have to disperse them. But the compassionate way is law and order and telling them, look, this is what's going to happen. If you come here, this is what's going to happen. But if you do it the right way because the best answer is compassion and order. That's what we have. That's why we let in hundreds of thousands of people every year because we're compassionate and we have an orderly process. When you violate the process and you rush and you threw bottles and rocks, they're going to shoot -- spray at you, but they're not going to shoot it at kids. They're trying to get the guys who are throwing the bottles, so that's a lie.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's a lie. In fact, if you look at this despite --

GUTFELD: So you're saying our border patrol were aiming at the kids. Let's get that little kid. You're insinuating that.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm saying there were kids there. But, anyway, the larger point to my mind --

GUTFELD: On which I'm right.


WILLIAMS: Well, that's always true. That's always true. But the larger point is that despite this recent thing with the caravan, in fact, border crossings long continued to go down. Are Stormy Daniels and Michael Avenatti headed for a split-up? Details next on The Five.


GUTFELD: All right, he was once her defender but now her offender. Stormy Daniels' blasting the hairless haggler Michael Avenatti, saying the court room cue ball sued Trump for defamation without her permission and is demanding answers about donations that she received from donors but she never saw. Quote, for months, I've asked Michael Avenatti to give me accounting information about the fund my supporter so generously donated to -- for my safety and legal defense. Come on, guys. He has repeatedly ignored those requests. So, we went to Mr. Avenatti for comment.




GUTFELD: Lost a lot of weight there. All right, Emily, you're the lawyer here, so you claim, I haven't seen any evidence of it.


GUTFELD: How is this guy -- tell me something. How is he not being investigated by the ABA or disbarred? I mean, a lot of the stuff he does is really shady.

COMPAGNO: I totally agree. He should be. And here's what viewers need to understand. So, first of all, not only does he come to the table already with the background being investigated for fraud, being accused of fraud, as well as bankruptcy and issues with funds with his client and his prior firm, but also these single -- or these dove tales, the single largest reason that attorneys are disciplined and or disbarred is for mingling funds. It's basically for being messy with finances and in any way doing anything wrong with client's dollars. Every single one has to be accounted for appropriately and in line with the contract. And he claims, well, the scope has changed and, therefore, you know, I'm sending up this new fund. Well, her contract didn't. And the other largest thing is that the ethics rules are clear. They are staunch that any type of material decision is a client's to make solely. It is never the attorneys. So the fact that he filed the suit on her behalf without her -- even input or knowledge is absolutely crazy. Of course, he should be referred for disbarment and sued for fraud and, probably, malpractice too.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second, disbarment?


WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Guys --


WILLIAMS: -- listen, I think he's got a lot of issues. I don't think there's any question. But the fact is he said all she's paid him is a hundred bucks and the money that come in and all these go-fund me or whatever, things that were set up was used for her security, used to help her deal with the situation. The one point that you made that struck me is that she says that the defamation suit filed against President Trump was not done with her consent, which would seem like crazy to me. You've got to have the client's consent. But how many lawyers are -- have unhappy clients? I don't think there's a shortage of them.

GUTFELD: That's true. We don't have time because we have a big surprise coming up.

PERINO: I know.


PERINO: I'm nervous about that.

GUTFELD: Yes, you should be. Dana, I don't think any woman who ends up in this guy's orbit comes out any better?

PERINO: Do you know what this is?


PERINO: It's a war on women.


PERINO: It's a war on women.


PERINO: That's right.

GUTFELD: That's all you've got to say?

PERINO: Yeah, I know we've got to go. I don't want to take up too much time. But really -- so she's in a situation, she's saying -- she's asking where's the money? And she, apparently, as from previous reporting we have heard, that she could use it. She needs it. And also, why does she need security? So that he could get on TV.


PERINO: That -- it's his fault.

GUTFELD: Right. You know what, she's in financial straits, I hope she doesn't turn to porn.


PERINO: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: You know, because it's not a good life, Jesse.

PERINO: War on women, too.

WATTERS: Yeah, I don't know anything about that life, Greg. But thanks for coming to me on that.

GUTFELD: What do you think in general about whatever?

WATTERS: I mean, I think security costs are cheap. I don't know how he's racked up 600 grand on security for this woman. It doesn't make sense to me. When you have multiple go-fund me pages popping up and shutting down - -


WATTERS: -- that's a really big red flag. And I also heard word in one of the reports that he tried to start representing members of the caravan and he was actually booted out because he was so ridiculous in his temperament and in his style that even the people in the caravan and the other lawyers around them are trying to do noble things, and dude, get the heck out of here.

GUTFELD: He's victim shopping.


GUTFELD: He presents himself as the rescuing white knight --


GUTFELD: -- and he ends up screwing the person he's representing.

WATTERS: Exactly, right.

GUTFELD: Metaphorically, that is. All right, controversy erupts over a Christmas classic, the left's ridiculous new problem with Rudolph, ahead.



CHEVY CHASE, COMEDIAN/ACTOR: Emma, I fixed it. Everybody come out quick. Look at the lights.


COMPAGNO: The left's new problem with Rudolph in just a second, but first, going full Griswold with a Christmas display could cost one homeowner an insane amount of money.

Local officials in New Jersey now threatening to fine a family -- get this -- $2,000 per day if they go forward with their massive Christmas spectacle. Neighbors complain that the attraction creates too many crowds, so now the town wants the family to pay for police security costs.

OK, you guys. First of all, I absolutely love Clark Griswold. I am that guy. And this weekend, on my steeped roof, I was on it like a spider, and I was trying to get lights along the gutter. I had my husband holding an electrical cord, which I improvised around me a safety harness. And he was -- like, my dog was barking. He was, like, "This isn't -- this is so not safe. This is so not safe!"

And I had -- I got halfway around before I had to give in and abort. So literally, my house right now is half Clark Griswold and half lights hanging off the side. I'm like the neighborhood dump today. But I love it.

So tell me, one of you.

WATTERS: You know what? I think we should use more movie clips in the show. It's a really good way, if, like, you're not funny enough, to get the audience to laugh a little bit more to kind of carry --

GUTFELD: I wonder where that came from?

WATTERS: I don't know, but I highly recommend it.

I actually did a story a few years ago where I went down to a town in Florida, and they had a similar thing where everything was lit up and there would just be massive amounts of people coming from all over.

GUTFELD: How surprising that it was in Florida. How was the weather?

WATTERS: It was beautiful.

GUTFELD: It was.

WATTERS: It was very -- I got a nice tan when I was down there.

GUTFELD: I was always interested why you went -- whenever you did these -- these packages, it was always in a nice beach.

WATTERS: Well, we knocked out some quizzes during spring break around the same time.

But -- yes, but neighbors have legit complaints about their streets getting crowded up. But you know what I say? Who cares? It's Christmas.

COMPAGNO: It is Christmas. And their -- the neighbor was the mayor, you guys. So the reason that the mayor is shaking down that poor guy is because he lives 200 feet away. He's probably jealous, and he has to wade through the crowd, like a grinch before he gets home.

GUTFELD: You don't know that. Maybe one of his relatives died through an electrocution of Christmas lights. And every day he comes home, and he sees those lights and he thinks of Uncle Steve, who fried in front of him; and he was never the same. You know, you are so cruel, Emily. It's disgusting.

WATTERS: Uncle Steve. God rest his soul.

GUTFELD: Uncle Steve, yes.

COMPAGNO: Pardon me, I am the Christmas elf.

OK, Juan, what would you do if that was your neighbor? Would you, like, go outside with hot chocolate, pass it around?

WILLIAMS: No, I would be upset, because the streets would be crowded. Everything would be a mess.

But you know what? I like it, because I want to go see it, so I love that stuff. But I must say, if it's in your neighborhood, and I know because I go into neighborhoods where they have big light displays. And I think this is great fun, but I know there's the throng of people all around.

GUTFELD: All high.

WILLIAMS: You can't get through. And I thought it was not fair of you to go after the mayor because he's the neighbor. He's not trying to -- so he's saying, "Hey, look, you can't get safety vehicles through. Nothing can get through."

And you know what happens in -- at least in D.C., like the big one, which is at a bishop's house, it ends at a certain hour so that they know that, basically, it's on from you know, nightfall, around 6, until 9, and then that's it. Nobody else. And they really do it.

COMPAGNO: It comports with local ordinances.


COMPAGNO: God bless that bishop.

Dana, Candy Cane Lane, is that you?

PERINO: Also, earlier this week, there was another story where a family -- I think it was either -- it was either in Utah or Idaho -- I think was Idaho -- where they -- the family was sued, because they had a similar situation. And guess what? They won on First Amendment grounds.

WATTERS: Guess what?

PERINO: So I think that we should take this war on Christmas to the Supreme Court, to the new conservative court --

WATTERS: Right. That's right.

PERINO: -- and see if we can end this war on Christmas once and for all.


COMPAGNO: I would take that case.

OK, another Christmas controversy we are following: Rudolph is under attack. The Huffington Post slamming the classic children's movie as, quote, "seriously problematic" for apparently promoting bullying, racism, sexism, bigotry, homophobia and lack of acceptance. Dana.

PERINO: This is my favorite Christmas show, and one of the reasons I liked it so much --

GUTFELD: Because you're hateful.

PERINO: -- is because it taught me about being kind to others. I mean, the lesson of the show is that you have to be inclusive of everyone and that some people go through a tough time, and you need to be nice to them.

GUTFELD: You know --

WATTERS: Is that why you keep telling me to watch that?

GUTFELD: You know what? Rudolph, you know why his nose is red. He was a drunk, OK?


GUTFELD: He had a substance abuse problem problem.


GUTFELD: This is how idiotic The Huffington Post is. OK? They're saying that it's about bullying. It's actually against bullying. If you used The Huffington Post logic, you could never have a book that talks about good versus evil, because it would contain evil in it.

And they also use that phrase [SIC] "problematic," which is the phrase [SIC] you use when you can't come up with a reason to explain what you think.

By the way, this -- The Huffington Post is owned by Verizon. So direct your letters to Verizon. They hate Christmas. They hate cute little deers [SIC].

PERINO: Oh, you just blew it. The P.R. -- P.R. office tonight.

COMPAGNO: But you're right. It's like they're saying about -- about fairy tales, right?


COMPAGNO: That -- that stories about dragons teach us that they can be overcome.


COMPAGNO: That that's why they have that place. So you're right.

So Juan, what do you think about the war on now Rudolph, too? You think there's --

WILLIAMS: This is silly. This is, like, ridiculous. I mean, who doesn't love Rudolph, the red-nosed reindeer?

I mean, the argument is that it's sort of an intellectual reductive argument about the fact that there's so much bullying going on, so much picking, not only on Rudolph but on his dad for having a son who has a red nose. And the shaming of the little guy. And then he overcomes. I understand the story.

I also understand that you don't want to celebrate things like shaming.

GUTFELD: But that's --

WILLIAMS: Like in Cinderella, you don't want to go on about that.

GUTFELD: That's the story.

WILLIAMS: But no, but that's -- you're right, Greg. But it's in the story, and I think what they're saying is look at this. And the way --

GUTFELD: They're insulting everybody who reads.

WILLIAMS: No, I don't think this is about reading. It's about TV and little kids watching --

GUTFELD: Little kids know.

WILLIAMS: -- and see somebody is being bullied and exploited.

GUTFELD: They love Rudolph. Everybody who watches it is on Rudolph's side --

PERINO: Everybody wants to be Rudolph.

GUTFELD: -- except The Huffington Post, because they're trying -- This is clickbait for a pathetic website owned by Verizon.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

COMPAGNO: Jesse, your take?

WATTERS: Well, I mean, I empathize with Rudolph. I was severely bullied as a child. And you know --

GUTFELD: You deserved it, though.


WILLIAMS: Was it over your hair?

WATTERS: Yes, my good looks, my intelligence. I was really cast aside. I had no friends.

COMPAGNO: Counterproductive.

WATTERS: So this was one of those things. I really can see the lessons here. And the point is you don't glorify the bulliers [SIC] when you watch this.


GUTFELD: Bullies.

WATTERS: The bulliers [SIC] end up being the bad guys.

GUTFELD: The bulliers [SIC]. Those are the French bullies.

WATTERS: The bully-ays.

GUTFELD: The bully-ays.

WATTERS: Oui-oui.

GUTFELD: The bully-ays.

WATTERS: The French always lose.

PERINO: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: The bulliers [SIC].

I'm surprised you corrected me, and Dana just sat there. Dana, where are you? Are you awake?

PERINO: I didn't want to bully you.


WATTERS: Good, good.

COMPAGNO: All right. Ahead, "The Five" faces off in an epic battle of trivia.

WATTERS: Bulliers [SIC].

COMPAGNO: Find out who will be crowned --

WATTERS: Stupid.

COMPAGNO: -- The Quiz Show champion.


PERINO: All right. As you know, I love trivia. After all, I've been on "Jeopardy," winning going into the commercial break. Then I lost.


PERINO: OK, I lost big-time.

Well, now, our good friend Tom Shillue is here and ready to test our knowledge on fun facts like he does on his new show on FOX Nation. It's called "The Quiz Show." You can catch it weekdays at 7 p.m.

Tom, take it away.

TOM SHILLUE, FOX NATION: Here's how it works, guys. Jesse is the only guy who has been on "The Quiz Show," but I hope you all come on. I answer questions. I ask questions. You answer them. You have an A, a B, and a C. OK? I will try to be articulate.

GUTFELD: I have a question. Why are you wearing what I wear?

SHILLUE: Greg, let me do the questions!

GUTFELD: This is mine!

SHILLUE: I am like -- I'm a poor man's Gutfeld. You know it, Greg. That's what you told me when I started working here.

PERINO: Why do you have abs (ph)?

SHILLUE: Question No. 1.

WATTERS: Poor man's Gutfeld, that's redundant.

COMPAGNO: Stop the mutiny.

SHILLUE: Question No. 1: In 1970, Richard Nixon signed a bill that prevented the television industry from doing what? A, showing full frontal nudity; B, advertising cigarettes; or C, promoting the gaming industry.


PERINO: Emily is too young.

SHILLUE: And Emily -- Emily says C. The answer is --



GUTFELD: I am in first place.

SHILLUE: Guys, don't gloat. They get tougher.

No. 2, what was the first toy to ever be advertised on television? Was it: A, the Slinky; B, Mr. Potato Head; or C, lawn darts?

GUTFELD: I love lawn darts.

SHILLUE: OK. Get your answers up. All different answers here. Greg, you're upside down. You know that?

The answer is B, Mr. Potato Head.

COMPAGNO: Yes, a pure guess.

PERINO: I went with A.

WILLIAMS: This is the advantage of having age on your side, Tom.

SHILLUE: Well, that's right. And I want you to know, the first Mr. Potato head, his name was "Make a Face."

GUTFELD: Really? I bet your parents wouldn't like that.

WILLIAMS: Make a Face? I thought -- I thought it was Shillue. It wasn't Shillue?


GUTFELD: Because you were always poking things into a man's face.

PERINO: You didn't have one?

GUTFELD: I had one.

COMPAGNO: You had one.

SHILLUE: It actually -- the first Mr. Potato Head, you needed to supply your own potato.

WATTERS: Mr. Potato Head?

GUTFELD: Yes, you did. Exactly.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so.

SHILLUE: Emily, you got that one right.

Greg, what, are you trying to hurry me up?


SHILLUE: Because this --

COMPAGNO: We've got to stay on time.

SHILLUE: Moving along, here we go. Question No. 3. The Nevada state prison used to have what available to its inmates? Was it: A, courses on dealing blackjack; B, monthly visits from magicians and face painters; or C, a casino?

Greg is still upside-down. B's. A lot of B's, a lot of C's. And the answer is C. A casino.


COMPAGNO: Yes. This is my jam.

PERINO: How do you keep everybody --

SHILLUE: We're keeping you honest. Because I think our producers are counting the votes, so we'll know who's the winner.

That's right. Between 1932 and 19 --

GUTFELD: We don't need to know.

SHILLUE: -- fifty-seven -- Greg, this is the great --

COMPAGNO: We need to know our history.

SHILLUE: Greg -- Greg, the following facts are what make "The Quiz Show" so special.

GUTFELD: It may be your sad life, Tom. But in my life, I like to move on.

SHILLUE: They had a casino in the Nevada State Prison. That's what I was going to tell you.

PERINO: OK, OK. We get it, we get it. Here we go.

SHILLUE: No. 3 -- No. 4. Which fast food mogul once shot a rival in the shoulder while fighting over advertising space? Was it: A, Dave Thomas, of Wendy's, as you know; B, Ray Kroc --

GUTFELD: Oh, that's tough.

SHILLUE: -- of McDonalds? Or C, Colonel Harlan Sanders from, yes, KFC? Your answers, please, ladies and gentlemen.

All cards are up. And the answer is C.

COMPAGNO: The Colonel with a gun! He's strapped. Mad. Yes. Yes.

WILLIAMS: You know, this is a family show. Don't you go -- OK.

PERINO: What did she do?

SHILLUE: Dana and Emily are --

GUTFELD: I don't know. I'm very close to swearing.

SHILLUE: Dana and Emily are in the lead --

WATTERS: Come on.

SHILLUE: -- with four points each.

COMPAGNO: Girl power.

PERINO: Women are achieving everywhere.

SHILLUE: Juan has three?

GUTFELD: Me, too.

SHILLUE: So you two are behind. You've got to -- you've got to catch up.

WATTERS: Let's start back the war on women, Greg.

COMPAGNO: You don't have to let them go on? Whose side are you on? Be objective.

SHILLUE: Colonel Sanders --

GUTFELD: We don't want to know about the facts!

SHILLUE: He shot a man in self-defense. His own business associate. And the man died. He died.

PERINO: Oh, wow.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Wait a second.

GUTFELD: That's not a good follow-up fact. That's a sad follow-up fact.

WILLIAMS: This is like -- that's like the Donner party. Did he end up in the bucket?

SHILLUE: Here we go, question No. 5.

COMPAGNO: Fried green tomatoes.

SHILLUE: What Grammy-winning rap superstar was born Curtis James Jackson? Was it: A, Eminem; B, 50 Cent; or C, Lou Dobbs?

WILLIAMS: You know, I want to say C, but I think Lou would be really mad at me. And then he'd say I was anti-Trump for calling him out.

SHILLUE: You're all B on this one, huh? Well, that's interesting, because the answer is B.


GUTFELD: By the way, he's been on FBN.

WATTERS: Has he?


SHILLUE: Dana won. And wait, that's it. That's -- I only have five questions.

WATTERS: Dana looked at my card, though.

SHILLUE: Dana, Juan and Emily, you all --

GUTFELD: She looked at the answers. You guys met before the show.

COMPAGNO: Do we have a champion round? Or --

WATTERS: Who won?

SHILLUE: There's a reason I only play --

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. How come you doubt that I won, dude? Come on. Come on.

SHILLUE: -- "The Quiz Show" with one guest at a time.

WATTERS: Juan won the "Supermarket Showcase" and --

COMPAGNO: Tom, make up a question off the top of your head. Make one up.

GUTFELD: How can people play this game themselves at home, Tom?

SHILLUE: If they subscribe to FOX Nation, they can watch it every night at 7 p.m. I'm the last show on FOX Nation.

GUTFELD: How do they subscribe. I'm curious, because I don't know, despite working here, how would one subscribe?

SHILLUE: Go to, and you can subscribe. It's -- also, it's a great deal. Greg, you have a show on it. And I just watched your wonderful interview with Scott Adams --


SHILLUE: -- on FOX Nation last night.

GUTFELD: We mentioned drug use.

COMPAGNO: I think you guys are deflecting the fact that Greg just got one point.

PERINO: Very good, Emily. I like that, Emily.


WATTERS: That was a poor performance. Not very smart, Greg.

WILLIAMS: I think that was -- that was an attempt by Emily at a cut-down or a putdown. Which was it? Which was it?

WATTERS: And you can also see almost every single "Watters' World" segment on FOX Nation.

GUTFELD: Which is --

WATTERS: Almost every single one.


SHILLUE: What were the ones they cut?

WILLIAMS: Yes. You got the right question, Tom. Which one? Which one did they --?

WATTERS: I lost the questions.

WILLIAMS: By the way -- by the way, do I get a little more respect, having won both the supermarket and the quiz.

PERINO: No, you don't get no respect.

WATTERS: Juan's the king of the quiz.

WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you.

WATTERS: It's the only time Juan is right.

PERINO: "One More Thing" is up next.

WILLIAMS: Call Trump now! Call Trump now!


WATTERS: Time now for "One More Thing." The winner of the quiz, Mr. Williams.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. Thank you.

COMPAGNO: Wait! Wait, wait.

WILLIAMS: It's time of year for Christmas miracles, and I've got one for you. Susie Rabaca of California, she's pregnant with twins, but the 36- year-old just found out she has blood cancer and needs a bone marrow transplant.

When no match could be found among 30 million people worldwide on the bone marrow registry, she went online and, with the help of country music superstar Carrie Underwood, more than 50,000 people signed up for the match registry.


WILLIAMS: No, here's the miracle. They found a match. Here's Rabaca.


SUSIE RABACA, PREGNANT MOTHER AND CANCER PATIENT: Thank you from the bottom of my heart to everybody. This is more than I could even ask for. It's my Christmas miracle.


WILLIAMS: Wow. Rabaca will deliver her twins before undergoing the transplant. All the best Hollywood happy miracles.

WATTERS: I think I Steve Harveyed you, Juan. You didn't win. Who was the winner?

WILLIAMS: I was the winner!

PERINO: Come on.

WILLIAMS: Come on.

PERINO: It was a tie.

WATTERS: Greg and I lost.

WILLIAMS: What is with you? You can't even say that I won? Holy smokes.

GUTFELD: -- keep talking about it.


PERINO: So you know if you watch this show I like to read books. I talk a lot about books. We are talking about FOX Nation and how you can see it. So I have a show there called "Dana's Book Club," and my first guest was Greg Gutfeld. And you can see a little clip here.


GUTFELD: I get to go with my -- with my notes and my laptop to one of 4 favorite bar restaurants, sit in the back. They know me. Open up the laptop and just start writing. And I drink. And I stop writing when I'm - - when I'm too buzzed -- when all of a sudden, it's not -- it's like I can't read.


PERINO: So it's about a 25-minute interview. It's very good, all about Greg's book.

WATTERS: That's 25 minutes?

GUTFELD: Yes, 25 minutes of that, I know.

PERINO: I mean, there's a lot.

WATTERS: Twenty-five.

GUTFELD: And you know, that's the best part of it, by the way.

WILLIAMS: Holy smokes.

GUTFELD: That's the apex.

WATTERS: Twenty-five whole minutes of that. Oh, my God. I can't wait.

All right, Greg.

PERINO: Apex. You know what? They said it's their most popular download --

GUTFELD: You are such a bullier [SIC].

WATTERS: Stop your bullying.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, he's Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

PERINO: Anyway,


GUTFELD: You know -- is it me?


GUTFELD: You know what it's time for?


WATTERS: Oh, no.


GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!


WATTERS: I'm sick of it.

GUTFELD: You're going to be so sick of this. That's the goal.

All right. You know, there are two animals in this video. Take a look at this. You've got a dog and a goat. Usually these types of films are disgusting, but not this one, because the goat just loves to jump over the dog. The dog doesn't seem to mind, because --


GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!


WATTERS: Oh, man. I think that's run its course.

GUTFELD: It's incurable.


GUTFELD: It's incurable.

WATTERS: All right. This is "Jesse's Workout Tip," everybody. Check this out.


WILLIAMS: What is that?

WATTERS: That's not real.

COMPAGNO: That looks like a straitjacket.

WATTERS: So a Chinese guy in Shanghai trying to do a poll up. Look what happens. Down he goes.


WATTERS: You know what? I'm going to make an analogy. Greg, do I have your permission?

GUTFELD: I'm afraid, but go ahead.

WATTERS: This was like the Chinese economy after the Trump tariffs.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

WATTERS: You know what? They're trying to hang on and boom, can't win.

WILLIAMS: Yes, really. It looks like GM.

WATTERS: Oh, cheap shot, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Is that the Chinese? I thought this was the Chinese.

WATTERS: All right. Emily.

COMPAGNO: OK, so Miss May was only a puppy when her owner, Cassandra Cabrera, who was a five-year Army soldier, was deployed to Africa. Now Soldier Cabrera came back after an 11-month deployment, and she was worried that while she was away, her pup wouldn't remember her.

On Thanksgiving she came back with only one day notice for her family. And we can see here that Miss May was jumping for joy. Absolutely adorable. I never get tired of these kinds of videos. Ever. It's beautiful.

WILLIAMS: You shouldn't. It's pretty --

PERINO: You know why? Because animals are great.

GUTFELD: Some animals are great, Dana. Some, not all. Some.

WATTERS: All right. Can we take us wide for a second? I just want to make sure everybody knows at home, Dana is actually wearing heels. She's even shorter --

PERINO: I am not wearing heels. I'll take them off.

WATTERS: She's even shorter than she appears on television.



WATTERS: That's Dana without any heels, amazing. Amazing.

And Greg is wearing heels. Greg, take your heels off.

GUTFELD: I always wear -- I'll take mine off. (SINKS DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF THE DESK)

WATTERS: Those are some stilettos over there.

WILLIAMS: You know what? You know what I have to say to that? Greg is great.

WATTERS (SINGING): Greg is great!

WILLIAMS (SINGING): Greg is great!

(SPEAKING): There is it.

WILLIAMS: Greg is -- or animals? No, Greg is great.

I don't know about sitting in the place, drinking while you're writing. But that's --

WATTERS: Yes. Everybody check out that on FOX Nation.

PERINO: Greg's got eight best-selling books.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next with Bret.

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