Trump impeachment trial likely to complicate Senate agenda

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Trump impeachment trial likely to complicate Senate agenda

Senate Foreign Relations Committee member Jeanne Shaheen weighs in.

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report with Bret Baier," December 17, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Bret Baier, anchor: The impeachment process is likely to head to the U.S. Senate. There's other work being done, as Mike mentioned, on Capitol Hill. Joining me from Capitol Hill to talk about it all, New Hampshire Democratic Senator, Jeanne Shaheen. Senator, thanks for being here.

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H.: Nice to be with you.

Bret Baier: I want to talk about the defense bill and all of the things that are passing. But first, I want to talk about impeachment.

Jeanne Shaheen: Sure.

Bret Baier: Senator, Republicans have criticized the House impeachment process as, really, nothing more than a partisan exercise. Do you have any expectation that something is going to be different on the Senate side, just with the roles reversed?

Jeanne Shaheen: Well, we don't know, yet, what the process is going to look like on the Senate side. But I do believe that the American people want to see a process that they don't believe is partisan. They want to see us get to the truth, try and get the information, to say whether the president did use his office of the presidency for his own personal gain. That's what this impeachment seems to be about. And so, I think it's important for us to hear from people who can shed some light on that, the people who were actually in the room, the documents that could tell us definitively what was said about withholding aid for Ukraine. And so, I'm disappointed that the president hasn't made those folks available to Congress, to let us know what they heard and that the documents have not been forthcoming.

Bret Baier: You know, Senator Mitch McConnell said today that it is not the job of the Senate to present the case. It is the job of the Senate to be the jury; he said the House has to make the case. What's your response to that?

Jeanne Shaheen: Well, clearly, the way the process is set out, the trial is held in the Senate. And so, we will, to some extent, be like jurors in a trial. And the House will present the case. But again, I think it would be helpful for us to be able to hear from some of those people who are close to the president, who could say what exchange happened around aid to Ukraine, why it was withheld, what the president said, what Mick Mulvaney said. That's what I think would really be helpful to us -- and to the public. The American public wants to know what the truth is here as well.

Bret Baier: You know, Senator, we've seen a lot of these hearings. We've carried them live, almost gavel-to-gavel, as they've -- the House Democrats have laid out their case. Yet, the Real Clear Politics average of polls continues to go in the other direction, opposing impeachment and removal. And actually, if you look at swing state polls, Senator, it's even greater, that disparity. Why do you think that's happening?

Jeanne Shaheen: You know, I don't know, Bret. But I think, again, the American people want to see a process that they don't view as partisan. And for me, as a senator, I need to be responsible to the oath of office that I've taken. And one of the most serious things we can do in Congress is to impeach the president. Next to declaring war, that's probably the most serious decision that we will make. And I believe the framers of the Constitution were very concerned about whether a president would use the office for their personal gain. And that's why they put in the impeachment clause. So, what I'm going to do is listen to the case that's presented to the Senate. I'm going to consider very carefully the facts that have been presented. And then I'm going to try and make the best decision I can based on the evidence that's been presented to us.

Bret Baier: Now, senator, when you were governor of New Hampshire, and another impeachment -- President Clinton's impeachment happened in 1998 -- you said this: "For too long, the impeachment process has distracted Congress from addressing many important issues facing the nation. It is time to put partisan politics behind us and get on with the business of the people." Do you have a different sense now?

Jeanne Shaheen: No. I actually don't believe that the impeachment is what's holding up a lot of decisions on legislation. Unfortunately, it's Senator Mitch McConnell who has kept bipartisan legislation, not just from the House that's come over, but from the Senate, from coming to the floor. And we've seen a real burst of activity in the last couple of weeks. We passed a defense bill that has a number of provisions in it that are really important: a 3 percent pay raise for men and women in the military, the parental leave -- 12 weeks of parental leave for those people who work for the federal government. It's got a provision to help the spouses of members of the military -- something that I worked on very closely with Tom Cotton and with Karen Pence, the second lady, to try and cut bureaucratic red tape for military spouses, who often bear the brunt when their spouse is transferred from station to station, and they have to pick up the family. They have to pack. They have to often change -- if they're teachers or nurses, they have to change where their licenses are, from state to state. And this is an effort to try and reduce that bureaucratic burden.

Bret Baier: So, you don't think that people at home are saying that the impeachment is taking away from the ability of Capitol Hill to get things done. I want to ask you, how long do you think a Senate trial should be?

Jeanne Shaheen: Oh, I don't have any idea. I think that will be determined as the result of discussions around the process. I hope it will be long enough to get information out that can help us determine what happened with the situation and aid to Ukraine, and what role the president played. And again --

Bret Baier: So, you don't think, Senator, that the case has been made yet by House Democrats?

Jeanne Shaheen: The case --

Bret Baier: Against --

Jeanne Shaheen: -- needs to be made in the Senate. I think, though, the articles of impeachment raise very serious concerns about what the president did, and that part of what we want to try to determine in the Senate is -- and what my responsibility is to look at that information and make a determination about whether I think --

Bret Baier: Yeah. But as you sit there --

Jeanne Shaheen: -- he was involved or not.

Bret Baier: -- now, you think it's incomplete. Because, you know, Democrats are -- in the House are saying it's an open-and-shut case from their point of view. But you're saying you need more, and that it's not complete? So, the House, as a prosecutor, has not finished its job, is what you're saying?

Jeanne Shaheen: Well, no. I'm saying that I need to see the information when it comes over to the Senate -- the way that the process works; the House decides whether they're going to develop articles of impeachment and whether the situation is serious enough. And then, they send that information to us in the Senate, and we make a determination about whether we think it is true or not.

Bret Baier: Yeah.

Jeanne Shaheen: And we haven't gotten to that part of the process yet.

Bret Baier: And --

Jeanne Shaheen: And that's what I'm waiting for. And I think it's incumbent on me, as a potential juror -- and all my colleagues in the Senate -- to take that responsibility very seriously, and to try and do the very best I can to look at the information that is sent to us, and then make a decision.

Bret Baier: I do want to put up the picture of the bill announcement -- of the National Defense Authorization Act. And as you mentioned, it was bipartisan, and your work with Senator Tom Cotton -- the 3.1 percent pay raise for military members, 12 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees, and the creation of this space force --

Jeanne Shaheen: Absolutely.

Bret Baier: -- a new military branch within the Air Force, which is a big deal.

Jeanne Shaheen: It is a big deal.

Bret Baier: Let me ask you this, though. Is there anyone up on Capitol Hill anymore, who is concerned about the deficit or the national debt?

Jeanne Shaheen: Sure. I think we should be concerned about it. You know, I didn't -- the tax bill that was passed in 2017 increased the national debt significantly, over a trillion dollars. Much more -- three trillion in the long-term. So, I have voted for a number of provisions, to try and reduce the debt. I supported the Simpson-Bowles Commission recommendations. So, I think it's something that we need to begin to see how we can address, but I think, in the short-term, we've got to fund this government. We've got to address the priorities of the American people. And that's what I've tried to support. And as you point out, the space force is significant, because, as we look at the future, the next area of combat between us and the other great powers -- China and Russia -- is going to be in space --

Bret Baier: Yeah.

Jeanne Shaheen: -- as we look at technology and the innovation that's occurring. That's happening in space. So, making sure we can compete is very important.

Bret Baier: Last thing. In New Hampshire, the unemployment rate down to 2.6 percent. Employment is up overall. The annual GDP is almost double what it was in 2017, to 2.3 percent in New Hampshire. Does that -- the economic success of your state -- make it tough or tougher to say to voters in New Hampshire, "We need to remove the president of the United States?"

Jeanne Shaheen: Well, I think the -- having a strong economy is very important. But we need to make sure that economy works for everyone, not just people in cities, not just people who are in high-end jobs, but people in rural areas. Farmers. People who are in wage jobs. And that's what I'm interested in, and I hope we're all going to work together to do that.

Bret Baier: Senator Shaheen, we appreciate your time.

Jeanne Shaheen: Thanks very much.

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