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Trump administration to begin distributing new rapid COVID test to states

This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto," September 2, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're here to show our support for Kenosha and Wisconsin. The state of Wisconsin has been very good to me. I love the people. We have done a lot for the state. And we will continue to do a lot for the state.

We're all in this together. And this was an example of what can happen when you do it right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, the president wrapping up his visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin, a few minutes ago.

He will be leaving shortly, heading back to Washington, D.C., but not before reminding Wisconsinites and those in Kenosha in particular that the government has their back, that it will be looking after them, and great respect for the police who will continue doing the same.

He spoke in favor of peaceful protesters, but not when they cross the line and get into something decidedly different, something he says that has been playing out across this country, and not just in Kenosha.

Busy day. Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is YOUR WORLD.

So, for the president of the United States, who went ahead to Kenosha, despite the mayor there saying he shouldn't have, the governor saying, now is not the time. There were many others who did want to see him today, were grateful for that opportunity.

Mark Meredith with more on the President's day -- Mark.  MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good afternoon to you.

The president and the attorney general had a chance to meet with some of the law enforcement officers that are trying to keep the peace here on the ground in Kenosha. The president also offered more than praise, promising some financial relief to this community that's been rocked by violence the last several days.

While he was here, he also had a chance to meet face to face with some of these small business owners that are really picking up the pieces after the violence that has really rocked this community. These small business owners are really trying to decide what they're going to do from here after their businesses were either destroyed or severely damaged.

The president also put out some tough words for the people responsible. This is what he had to say during a roundtable within the last hour:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: These are not acts of peaceful protests, but really domestic terror. My administration coordinated with the state and local authorities to very, very swiftly deploy the National Guard, surge federal law enforcement to Kenosha and stop the violence.

And I strongly support the use of the National Guard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MEREDITH: But Wisconsin's Democratic governor made it clear he did not think that President Trump should make this trip, the governor saying the decision to travel would tie up resources and also prevent the community from having a chance to heal.

Back on the ground, as you can imagine, the businesses around Kenosha are waiting to see how quickly that federal relief will reach them. The state is also offering some small business loans to help them in the short term.

And we know that Kenosha, the city, at least, is expecting that the damage from all of this is expected to cost them at least $2 million. And those numbers, Neil, as you can imagine, are expected to grow -- Neil.

CAVUTO: I'm sure.

Mark, thank you very much, Mark Meredith on all of this.

So, those business owners to whom Mark was referring obviously do need some help. Many of them have seen their businesses and livelihoods destroyed in the process.

Linda Tolliver is a Kenosha business owner whose property right now was among those that might have been targeted here, maybe could use some help. Ed's Used Tires of Kenosha is the store, Linda in charge.

Very good to have you. Thank you for taking the time.

LINDA TOLLIVER, ED'S USED TIRES: Thank you.

CAVUTO: The president was talking about help on the way, support for those whose businesses were hurt by this. What do you think of that? Are you open to that?

TOLLIVER: I am open to that.

I really -- we're hardworking people. We will take care of ourselves, but there's only so much we can do. Insurance covers some of it, but we could use the help.

CAVUTO: I'm sure.

Linda, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what happened to your store.

TOLLIVER: Well, I was watching a live feed on a social network. And I saw that they were coming towards my shop. And I literally live a few minutes away.

So, I quickly came. And by the time I got here, they busted out windows. They stole the safe. They stole the register. They stole an ATM that wasn't even mine. They terrorized my animals. I have birds here. They tried to light the place on fire, but I got here before that happened.

And then I spent the night here with broken windows and no power. They -- all the power was shut off. It was horrible. It was really horrible.

CAVUTO: Was this in the beginning, Linda, when -- soon after Jacob Blake's shooting?

TOLLIVER: Jacob Blake got shot on Sunday. And, Monday, there was some vandalism downtown. But Tuesday night, they went all over town.

CAVUTO: Right.

TOLLIVER: And I'm just a little bit outside of the downtown area on one of the main thoroughfares.

And they came up my street, and they busted up cars and car lots and started the furniture store (INAUDIBLE) fire. The probation office was set on fire. There were 50 fires that night.

CAVUTO: Now -- right.

Now, had things calmed down once more National Guardsmen came in, Linda? How did that all go down?

TOLLIVER: That was a godsend. I mean, it was combination of things.

A lot of the -- see, these people that were protesting were not our people. They were from out of town. And when they left to go to a march in Washington, D.C., and the National Guard came in, by the time they got back from doing their march and whatnot, we were all settled in. We got the National Guard here.

I'm very confident that things will go a lot more smoother now. And I'm very grateful for the National Guard.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: If there that many National Guardsmen around when your -- right.

If they were around at the time your store was hit, you think things would have ended up differently?

TOLLIVER: Yes.

I really honestly believe that my store would not have been damaged, at least nowhere near as much. I think that my neighbors whose building completely burned down would not have burned down.

I think our whole uptown area, which was completely destroyed, would not have been destroyed. There was a car lot that one gentleman has three different lots, and all these cars were started on fire. And that would not have happened.

They maybe would have smashed the windows here or there, but then they would have been stopped. I don't think it would have gone that far.

CAVUTO: How are you doing now?

TOLLIVER: I'm taking it day by day.

I'm having limited hours. There's a curfew. And I got to make sure my men have a chance when they get off work to go and do the -- what they need to do before they go home for their curfew. My business has been drastically cut.

I had to close for the first week. I couldn't even imagine being open. Have had a lot of support. Everybody from all over the country has called or sent tides of support. And I can't tell you how much that means, not feeling alone.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Linda, you hang in there. It was an honor. No, it was an honor talking to you and to have the strength to talk to us.

But, as they say, hope is on the way. Linda, thank you so much. Be well. Things will get better. I'm convinced.

TOLLIVER: Thank you. Thank you so much.

CAVUTO: All right, Linda Tolliver among the shop owners -- no, thank you - - was damaged in all of that. Very curious that things improved mightily, too late for her, when more Guardsmen came into the city of Kenosha.

Be that as it may, Joe Biden, who spoke out against the violence that's occurring in cities like Kenosha, has yet to visit Kenosha, though he says he will.

Jacqui Heinrich with more on that -- Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, the Biden campaign held a press call today literally titled "How Trump Made America Less Safe," flipping the script on Republican messaging about people not being safe in Joe Biden's America.

On that call, Democrats slammed President Trump's trip to Kenosha, despite the objection of the governor and the mayor, saying he's not there in a healing capacity. He's not meeting with the Blake family.

But Biden campaign officials said today the former vice president will go to Kenosha when the timing is right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYMONE SANDERS, BIDEN CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Vice President Biden is looking forward to getting to Wisconsin very soon. It's a priority for us.

Look, he doesn't want to do anything that would create a tussle, if you will, on the ground. He doesn't want to do anything to upset kind of the -- as you noted in your opening, the peaceful nature of what is currently happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: Democrats say President Trump is advocating violence against peaceful protesters, rather than condemning the racial violence that caused the protests in the first place.

And they again called on President Trump to condemn the violence. Yesterday, Biden said -- quote -- "The president declined to rebuke violence. He wouldn't even repudiate one of his supporters who is charged with murder because of his attacks on others. He is too weak, too scared of the hatred he has stirred to put an end to it."

Also, today, Biden and Harris released a previously recorded conversation on coronavirus, systemic racism and voter suppression. That conversation was taped back on August 21. That was before the shooting of Jacob Blake and all this unrest in Kenosha.

However, that conversation notably also didn't touch on ongoing unrest in other American cities like Seattle, Chicago and Portland that were really happening at that time, Neil.

CAVUTO: Jacqui Heinrich.

Thank you very much, Jacqui. Always good catching up with you on that.

In the meantime, a quick peek at the corner Wall and Broad today. This concern about law and order has not jostled traders, who are convinced that better days are ahead, and that this will get better, as well as the virus situation.

The Dow in positive territory on the year. The S&P hit a record today. The Nasdaq hit a record today.

But not everything is hunky-dory. Right now, we have got two competing worlds across the Hudson River. On the West Side, we have got Hoboken, New Jersey. Across the river from there, you have got New York City. On Friday, indoor dining will resume in New Jersey. Just across the river in Manhattan, it will not.

Food for thought that has some in a big old food fight in the biggest city in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, they're so close, if you wanted to, you could swim to them on the Hudson River. On the East Side, of course, you have Manhattan. On the West Side, you have Hoboken, New Jersey. There's also a convenient tunnel to avoid getting wet.

But the point is, they're close. But they're far apart when it comes to a crucial decision that's been made, at least in New Jersey, to open up indoor dining on Friday. Still waiting for it in New York City, perhaps for the rest of this year.

The environment just doesn't look good. Even the governor has talked about the possibility that a lot of people will simply hop a train, or swim, to go over to New Jersey to dine out, when, in fact, that is taking business away from restaurants that are still waiting to open, at least for indoor dining.

Zane Tankel with us right now, the Apple-Metro chairman and CEO, a lot of restaurants under his ownership, even though he's thin and fit. I don't know how he quite does that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But, Zane, I'm curious. This is going to put New Jersey at a distinct advantage to New York, isn't it?

ZANE TANKEL, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, APPLE-METRO: I'm not sure about that, Neil.

All that glitters is not gold in the sense that 25 percent seating is very limited seating, correct? And how long will it take you to get a seat in a restaurant that's...

CAVUTO: Right. But it's 25 percent more than zero, isn't it?

TANKEL: It is. It is. But it's 75 percent less than it used to be.

CAVUTO: Good point. Good point.

What do you think happens here? The governor was worried. I wonder whether he was teeing up, Zane, a potential rift with the mayor, that he's going too far, indicating that these restaurants could remain closed, indoor dining, for the rest of the year. What do you think?

TANKEL: Yes. Yes, of course. They're good friends. They go drinking every Saturday night together.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: I don't think so, right.

TANKEL: So, we know the political climate here in New York City, and we're always the victims of it.

But I'm not sure -- I don't want to be a cockeyed optimist that opening 25 percent in New Jersey is as meaningful as it may sound. I wouldn't want to open at 25 percent-only seating. We got to hire the same staff. You got to hire servers. You got to hire a manager for the front of the house.

There's a whole bunch of dynamics if you're going to service it properly operationally that you have as challenges. So, I'm not sure. I think we can get a longer season by getting outdoor heaters.

In New York City, you made the point earlier, I believe -- or someone did - - that gas-fired heaters are not allowed. They're illegal, but there -- electrical heaters are. It'll require some electrical installation, required some -- but restaurant tours, by nature, we're up to challenges.

And this is a challenge, one more New. Jersey opening for -- I wish my brethren across the river -- we have always had it, by the way, Neil, in Long Island. You could go to Long Island. They started, I believe, at 50 percent seating back in May.

CAVUTO: True. True.

TANKEL: And you have it in Westchester County. We started that in July in our Westchester -- we have five restaurants in Westchester doing it.

And that's 50 percent seating. So, I'm not sure it's a whole lot of nothing, you know, a nothing ball that they're throwing to make the restaurant...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So, you don't -- do you have any restaurants -- do you have any restaurants in New Jersey at all, or do you just hate New Jersey? Because I live in New Jersey. I'm just curious.

(LAUGHTER)

TANKEL: I know you happen to live there, so I love it.

I know you happen to be a New Jerseyite, but I live in New Jersey as well.

I -- no, I just...

(CROSSTALK)

TANKEL: No. The answer is, no, I don't have any.

CAVUTO: No, the only reason why I would ask, I mean, it's interesting what you say. I mean, there are surveys out that say one out of four restaurants could be out of business by the end of this year, all the more so in the New York area, if they stick to a lot of this.

Do you think that's accurate?

TANKEL: I believe that's very possible. Yes, that's very accurate. It may even be more. I have heard bigger numbers.

CAVUTO: Yes. Yes.

TANKEL: Yes, it's very scary.

And I -- restaurant tours traditionally are small margin businesses. You're very aware of that, I know.

And so there was not a lot of dry powder, so to speak, on the sidelines when all this came from nowhere. And now we're put to the test. And I view it as a challenge. I view it as a test.

And I think we're strong enough and big enough to work our way through this. So far -- we have 20 restaurants. We opened our 20th restaurant this last week. And the 20 restaurants, we're doing things different.

It's a different business, Neil. It's a different world.

CAVUTO: Yes.

TANKEL: And we just got to get used to it.

As hard as it is to believe that this is actually occurring, it's occurring. And here we are.

CAVUTO: It is. It is.

TANKEL: And as soon as we all come to recognize that -- we're figuring it out.

I can't tell you that I have the magic formula. I was on a call with my banks this morning. They want some hard data. They want to know what's my projections, what's it -- I said, I can't tell you what tomorrow looks like with a lot of credibility.

I can tell you what I think it might be. And I just wrote a memo to everybody in our company, saying, you just got to make decisions. There are no bad decisions. There are decisions we will change the next.

CAVUTO: Right.

TANKEL: But we just have to make decisions, in the light of this opacity that we're facing.

CAVUTO: Well, keep making that great food, and do not, do not go cheap on the sliders. They're your magic secret weapon.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: So, Zane, keep at it, my friend. Keep thin.

TANKEL: Thank you, Neil.

CAVUTO: Gain some weight, for God's sake, Zane Tankel, the Apple-Metro chairman and CEO, has restaurants all over the place, but apparently not New Jersey.

I don't take that too personally.

By the way, it's unexpected developments that oftentimes dictate the course of the election. David Rubenstein, The Carlyle Group founder and CEO, he's out with a great new book that takes a look at how unexpected developments test leaders of all sorts, including the guys running for president -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, a great deal of attention right now paid to the rise in cases with the virus.

Here's another disturbing trend, the rise in divorces -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Maybe it's just the phenomena that happens after both conventions are over. Maybe it's the law and order issue, maybe the improving markets. Maybe it's just the way things go as we get into the fold.

The race is tightening up right now, a trend in national polls that saw Joe Biden still leading, but not as much, and in battleground states that also show him leading, but, again, not nearly as much. And we have still got 63 days to go in this process.

Let's get into this a little bit and see what's at stake and how things might or might not change in the days and weeks ahead.

Emily Larsen with us of The Washington Examiner. We have also got Jessica Tarlov, Democratic strategist, FOX News contributor, and last, but not least, Joseph Pinion, Republican strategist.

Joe, end it with you. Maybe help me out on this. The Republicans probably are thinking, maybe it's the law and order thing we have been pounding on. Maybe it's just a natural tightening of the polls at this point in a race. What do you think?

JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think the fact remains that, whatever the media says, the RNC did have an effective week. It was not doom and loathing.

It was really about focusing on humanizing the fears of everyday Americans. And I think the fact that there were many people who finally felt heard, after a week of messaging that talked about bringing prosperity back, talked about an economy that looked more like what happened pre-COVID that what's been happening post COVID, those are the types of messages that I think get Americans excited when they start trying to look at a future that Democrats tried to paint as bleak, and that Republicans talked about being what America has always been, a land of opportunity and boundless potential.

CAVUTO: You know, Jessica, if we're to read Joe Biden's actions and statements on some of the violence, they're obviously much more prevalent this week than they were during the Democratic Convention week.

JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

CAVUTO: And the fact that he's even talking today about the possibility of going to Kenosha himself and the speech he gave yesterday in Pittsburgh, obviously, someone's getting to him. Others around him are saying, we have got to get on this issue.

What do you think?

TARLOV: I am definitely think people close to him said, we have got to get on this issue. And people who are on his circle went on national television and said it, like Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who's from Michigan.

She's from a state that we lost in 2016 that we did not need to lose. And I think Joe Biden's entire team is acutely aware of the fact that President Trump is running a law and order campaign. And whether you own it or not, this violence is going on. The looting and the rioting is unacceptable. And it's clearly separate from the peaceful protesting that we all support, or should support.

We also saw a tightening with independents. And this was a key issue that they were talking about. Those independent voters are the ones that are going to sway this race. We know where Democrats are going. We know where Republicans are going, though there's that never-Trumper group who are on the Democratic side, though I don't really know how many people that is.

So it's those independents that are going to decide this election. And they are paying attention to the rioting. And they want to see the kind of strong response that we got from Joe Biden yesterday in Pittsburgh.

CAVUTO: Emily, let me ask you about that, because, you think about it, in all the battleground states, the cities that are problems are, by definition, the battleground states.

And I'm wondering, if the president is ahead of visiting all of them in- person than Joe Biden, who I guess is after Labor Day, is that too late for the former vice president? Is he behind the sort of working-my-tuchus-off curve?

(LAUGHTER)

EMILY LARSEN, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, I think that this is -- oh, did you call on me?

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: I did.

LARSEN: I think that this is just the time that Joe Biden is really getting into the swing of the campaign season. He's supposed to start traveling after Labor Day to swing states, things that we haven't really seen from Joe Biden all summer.

And so, as the race is tightening, there's a lot of talk about was there a convention bounce for either party. Well, President Trump's campaign manager said today that he hasn't seen the tightening of the race so much a response to the convention as it is just a whole bunch of voters tuning in right now.

And so with the riots and the violence that has gone on, that is certainly getting a lot of attention and heightening awareness of the race. And that's something that -- of course, that's why we saw Vice President Biden step up and address it, because this is something that voters are paying attention to.

Exactly how much this is going to affect things and which message is going to end up being victorious, I think it's a little bit too early to tell which party has the edge there.

CAVUTO: Joe, it's naturally going to be a tighter race than it would have appeared to have been a few months ago.

I mean, then what this decides this going forward? The resolution of a lot of this violence, progress on the virus, a vaccine? What do you think ultimately decides it?

PINION: Look, I think we have two parties that both in many ways have their head stuck in the sand.

And I think the ostrich that takes their head out of the sand first will be the one that wins.

CAVUTO: I'm so glad you said stuck in the sand.

PINION: President Trump is going to press on.

CAVUTO: I thought you were going somewhere else.

(LAUGHTER)

PINION: Oh, yes.

Oh, no, look, I think the reality is that President Trump is leaning into law and order. I think the reality is that it's -- every time a business burns, a Trump voter is born.

But the fine print to that is that we have to be able to find a way to give dignity and to affirm the identity of individuals who feel as if they haven't been heard. I think every time we have somebody on TV equivocating on what happened in Kenosha, we lose not only a voter, we lose an entire subset of soccer moms in Pennsylvania.

And so I think that we can understand that law and order and justice can go hand in hand. There is a Justice for Breonna Taylor Act waiting for President Trump to lean into it and demand Congress sign it. There is a lot of justice reform bill that Tim Scott has authored waiting for President Trump to demand Congress do their job and get it enacted.

So I think that there is a way for President Trump to actually carry the day, to tell the Republican Party and to tell America that, if you're in the streets for justice, that justice will not be deferred at the hand of the Republicans and certainly not in the name of Donald J. Trump.

And he can call America to come together around those things that I think will hand him reelection and, in the process, bring a fractured nation back together.

CAVUTO: Jessica, real quickly, what do you think of it?

TARLOV: I mean, I would love to live in Joe's America. I just don't think that it's going to happen.

He's absolutely correct that there are a bunch of bills sitting on President Trump's desk and those that have come out of the House and not passed the Senate yet that would do a lot of good in advancing the causes that matter to all Americans who are concerned with racial justice and social justice.

CAVUTO: All right.

TARLOV: I just don't think that this president, the man who won't even properly just talk about what Kyle Rittenhouse did, for instance, is going to be the guy to get it done.

But I remain hopeful and optimistic. But I do think that the coronavirus is going to be the central issue for this election, 185,000 Americans dead. That's what people are going to be voting on, especially in the midst of a potential second wave come November.

CAVUTO: You could say the same about Democrats who haven't really talked about this far right victim of a killing in Portland, right? Both sides can kind of select and choose their victims.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Guys, I want to thank you both very much.

Stay with us. We will have more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, forget about the polls where they are now.

Who is working harder to close the deal and get the job, either Donald Trump, who wants to be reelected president, or Joe Biden, who wants to be president? Both have to work hard to get the job.

David Rubenstein, who has a great new book on how to lead, in which he chronicles some of the most successful people in the world, that a common theme among them is, the hard worker gets the spoils. It's good to have luck going your way, good to have talent, but working hard, that's crucial.

Howard Ruben -- I'm sorry -- David Rubenstein with me earlier today on FOX Business.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID RUBENSTEIN, FOUNDER AND CO-EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, THE CARLYLE GROUP: I think there are a couple of criteria that are very important.

Hard work is one. Luck is another. Focus is another. Persistence is another. Integrity is important as well, rising to the occasion. But on hard work, I don't think anybody ever won a Nobel Prize working five days a week 9:00 to 5:00.

If you want to do something significant with your life, and really make a real mark in the world, I think you have to work a little bit longer than 9:00 to 5:00 five days a week. That doesn't mean you can't do other outside activities.

But you have to really work hard. And hard work is the end that's going to pay off more than anything else. You make your own luck by working hard.

CAVUTO: So, let me be clear, David. Then, if I wanted to work less than 9:00 to 5:00, since you didn't stipulate that, would that get in the way of success?

RUBENSTEIN: I think, if you work less than 9:00 to 5:00 five days a week, you might have a very enjoyable life, you might play a lot of golf and tennis, but I don't think you're likely to make a big mark on the world.

Now, there's obviously some people that would disagree. And some people have written one book, that's all they have ever done, and they had a big mark on the world. But, as a general rule of thumb, I think working harder is better than not working hard.

I don't think you have to be brilliant. I don't think you have to be creative. I think you have to be reasonably intelligent. But working hard is very important.

But, again, there are other criteria. I think focus is important. You can't try to do 1,000 things at once. You got to focus on one or two things. You also have to know how to communicate with people. You can't lead people if you don't have followers. You have to learn how to communicate with them by good writing or good oral communication or by leading by example.

The most effective thing is leading by example. So, if you want to be a leader -- and not everybody wants to be a leader -- but if you want to be a leader, I have tried to outline what some of the most famous leaders in our country have done.

They didn't do things perfectly. They'd all say they make mistakes. But most of them would say they had some luck, they worked hard, they had a persistence, and they overcame a lot of obstacles in their youth.

CAVUTO: You know, one thing that's interesting, too, in a lot of your conversations, that some of them, it's not about themselves.

They have become very, very successful at what they do, but they readily share the credit with other people. And I'm -- and that is not among everyone you profile, but certainly most. What did you make of that?

RUBENSTEIN: Yes.

Ronald Reagan famously said, there's no limit to what humans can accomplish if they're willing to share the credit. And that's certainly true.

So, to me, the most important thing, if you're a leader, is trying not to convince everybody that you're the superstar and you're making all the decisions. You got to convince them that they are helping you, and if they follow you, they will be better off. And that's a key to leadership.

But I do think that sharing the credit is very important. As President Kennedy said, victory has 1,000 fathers and defeat is an orphan.

CAVUTO: Right.

RUBENSTEIN: So, there's no doubt that everybody likes to take credit for things, but, in the end, when things don't work out, people are looking around in their shoes, and they're kind of pointing fingers elsewhere.

That's not the mark of a real leader. When President Kennedy made the mistake of Bay of Pigs, he went on television and said: I made a mistake. I bear the responsibility.

CAVUTO: Yes.

RUBENSTEIN: And his popularity went up.

CAVUTO: No, I think you're right. We try to tell our kids the same thing.

But you know what I found fascinating, David, in looking at some of these people is, they overcame enormous doubters, naysayers, Jeff Bezos literally laughed at, some of the ideas that were imparted by President Clinton early on, that you could be a sort of a moderate Democrat and swing and entice more people into the party.

That was dismissed pretty readily here.

RUBENSTEIN: Right.

CAVUTO: But they had the courage of their convictions of all stripes, even George W. Bush, profiling him and how he was dismissed, and almost he relished the dismissiveness.

And I'm wondering if there are lessons for all of us here.

RUBENSTEIN: Well, yes.

John Kenneth Galbraith, the famous economist, once said, the conventional wisdom is almost always wrong. And he's right, because when people say you can't do something, in the end, they're probably wrong. And somebody comes along and does what Jeff Bezos did or Bill Gates did or Steve Jobs did proves that you can overcome conventional wisdom.

And that's what really marks a great leader, overcoming conventional wisdom, and persisting, persisting, persisting. If people tell you no, no, no, you should be more inspired to go ahead and try to do it. Not everything will work that way. But, generally, the people I have written about and other leaders are people that overcame people who said they couldn't do what they wanted to do.

CAVUTO: How did they get to the point of still working so hard? I could ask the same of you, David. When -- I don't know, when you...

RUBENSTEIN: Right. Right.

CAVUTO: When you netted your first billion dollars, you could have just said, I'm done. I can kind of slow down.

But you haven't. You didn't. And I'm thinking the same about Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Tim Cook, where you could -- you could argue with the success - - look at Tim Cook of late, post your book, coming out. His wealth has gone up fivefold, and Jeff Bezos now the $200 billion-plus man.

But that doesn't -- I'm not saying it's unimportant to them, but it does not take the fire out of their belly.

RUBENSTEIN: Well, the implication of the question is, work is not as much fun as not work.

But, actually, for people who really are driven, work is the most pleasurable thing they can do. The trick is to make sure they have some time to do something else, because you want a more balanced life. But I think Jeff Bezos loves what he's doing. Bill Gates loves what he's doing. Steve Jobs loved what he was doing.

And so I love what I'm doing. So I don't really want to just play golf or play tennis, neither of which I'm very good at. I want to do something that I think is making a contribution. And I would say that those people who build great companies think that they're making a contribution to the world. And I think they probably are.

So, it's not -- just in your own career for example, you work very hard, and do you think that this is work, or is it pleasure? You enjoy doing it. If you enjoy doing it, it's not work. It's pleasure.

CAVUTO: Then again, I just found out the other anchors at FOX are paid, David. That's something else I'm looking into here.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But let me ask you.

One thing I -- and I don't want to sound fawning, but I'm going to sound fawning because I'm a great admirer of yours. I like the way you can criticize yourself. I think my dad used to say that, if you can't laugh at yourself, you're going to miss the fun others are having doing it for you.

But I think, in your case, even joking about -- your financial acumen is never in doubt. Yet you were among those saying, Carlyle invested in this up-and-coming company Amazon as soon as it went public, cashed out, or I think it was soon after it went public.

RUBENSTEIN: Right.

CAVUTO: And you got whatever it was, I think, what was it, about $80 million. That same $80 million might be worth, what, $4 billion today.

But I thought that was a very humanizing moment to say, woulda, shoulda, coulda, even you.

RUBENSTEIN: There's some people that never look back, and there's some people that always look back.

And I guess maybe, for whatever reason, I always look back and say, these are the mistakes I made, I should have done something better. Maybe it's not an endearing quality, but I can't resist it.

In some cases, it's easy to say, I never made a mistake, but I don't think that's the right thing to do. I think people should look back and be honest about the mistakes they made, so you can learn from those mistakes.

And, believe me, I made many of them, in addition to passing on the Facebook. When my daughter was at Harvard, and she met a young man that she's now married to, I heard about Facebook and I said, this was never going anywhere. And that was a mistake.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Well, I think the successes by far outnumbered any problems.

Real quick, while I have you, what do you think of what's going on with the market right now? The Dow wants to complete the hat trick, I guess. It's only a few percentage points from a record itself, S&P and Nasdaq already there. What is the market telling us?

Does it get you worried? Does it get you psyched? What?

RUBENSTEIN: I think the market is getting near a peak.

The markets are very frothy right now. I know, in our own business, we see prices are very expensive. Inevitably, there will be some correction. And when that happens, people say, I knew it was coming, whether they actually acted on it or not.

CAVUTO: Right.

RUBENSTEIN: I do feel that, at some point, the market will correct. Whether it's right before the election or after the election, I don't know.

But I don't think it can keep going on like this forever. I just think something will change. As Herb Stein, the famous head of Council of Economic Advisers under President Nixon said, if something can't keep going on forever, it won't.

And I just don't know if this can keep going on forever. I think the economy's in reasonably good shape because of the Fed and other things that Congress has done. But, at some point, I think the markets will take a breather.

CAVUTO: David, real quickly, the president said, just echoed again today before hopping a plane to go to Kenosha, that if you elect Joe Biden, market is going to crash, your 401(k) is going to be decimated.

What do you think of that?

RUBENSTEIN: I think trying to predict what the market is going to do is very different.

So, as I have said, I think the market will take a breather. But I don't really know exactly when that's going to be. If I did, I would take some action relating to it, but I don't really know.

So it's just hard to say. I would say that the markets are probably going to tolerate whoever is elected president, but whoever is elected president will probably have to deal with very high deficits and debt. And, at some point, I suspect we will have to address the fact that right now half of our budget is coming from borrowing.

CAVUTO: Yes.

RUBENSTEIN: And over the course of the United States' history, we have never been able to sustain a situation where the entire budget, or half of it, is being -- is being financed.

At some point, we will have to either increase taxes or get higher growth. And it's not easy to do either of those things.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVUTO: All right, David Rubenstein, the billionaire co-founder of Carlyle Group, "How to Lead: Wisdom from the World's Greatest CEOs, Founders, and Game Changers."

He makes you think about what they all have in common from all fields. It really comes down to working their heinies off. They never ever, ever, ever stop.

More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, so what's the latest on that stimulus relief, whatever you want to call it, to address the virus situation?

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin maybe gave some clues.

Chad Pergram on that -- Chad.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there haven't been talks in weeks.

This was the first time in a couple of weeks that Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, had been on Capitol Hill, testifying today, and he's confident they can get a deal. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I do not support $2.2 trillion. But what's more important is, what is the breakdown in getting money to American workers, American families, kids, where we can agree on money?

There is tremendous areas of agreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Now, Mnuchin said there was surprisingly common ground on money for the Postal Service if the sides would set aside their differences.

Mnuchin promised lawmakers he would call House Speaker Nancy Pelosi later today. But Pelosi's spokesman, Drew Hammill, says Democrats already compromised, and the administration -- quote -- "must meet us in the middle."

Now, something else that the Treasury secretary testified to today, that there would be more information forthcoming about the eviction moratorium. We're told that that should come some time after 5:00 Eastern time -- Neil, back to you.

CAVUTO: All right, Chad, thank you very much, my friend, Chad Pergram on all of that.

Well, I guess the laws of nature, right? After the lockdown, lawyering up - - when couples file for divorce after filing out of their homes.

It's happening in waves -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, after the sheltering, the divorcing? Some disturbing statistics on life after COVID-19.

Susan Li has more.

Hey, Susan.

SUSAN LI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Frank Sinatra saying, love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage.

But when you throw in COVID and lockdowns in the middle, it's led to a spike in divorce rates. Couples were forced to stay home together, some homeschooling their kids. Throw in the stress of income loss and work from home, and it was just too much for some.

Divorces jumped by 34 percent compared to last year, according to one survey, while interest in separation skyrocketed by 57 percent in April from February, with newer marriages of five years or less accounting for more than half of the divorces.

Now, across America, couples in Southern states were far more likely to seek a breakup, highest divorce rates in Mississippi, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, and Louisiana, and a spike in uncoupling during coronavirus, a trend seen around the rest of the world.

For instance, in China, divorce rates hit records in some cities, while cases of domestic violence also jumped. Tough times, Neil.

CAVUTO: Man, oh, man. Susan, thank you very, very much.

Susan keeps track of every everything.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right, Kat Timpf is with us.

Kat.

I wanted to Kat to come on because this young lady just got engaged. And she's hearing this, going, oh, my gosh.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Kat, I don't want you to be alarmed by this, but what do you make of it?

KATHERINE TIMPF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, I think my engagement is probably a touch of me maybe be cashing in on some karma that I have been owed for a while, because, my 20s, I was in exclusively horrible relationships.

I mean, if you put all those guys in a room together, you probably wouldn't be able to find even a single redeeming quality.

But there's a host of things...

(CROSSTALK)

TIMPF: Trust me.

CAVUTO: Wow.

TIMPF: There's also things that you can do to make things easier in quarantine.

I think something that helps me the most is, just because this person is the person who's around me all the time physically, and other people aren't, you got to remind yourself you should not be depending on that person exclusively to meet your emotional needs, because, especially if you're me, there's no one person that could bear that burden.

So, still talk to your friends, family, though it's a bit harder.

CAVUTO: That's a heavy burden right there.

TIMPF: Yes. You have no idea.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But a lot of this is just the pressure.

I can understand one or the other worrying about the stability of their job, other issues that come up, maybe the kids and all that. You're not there yet.

But I do wonder whether it's tough under pressure for couples to deal with, well, pressure.

TIMPF: I think that's absolutely true.

Communication is important. Thankfully, I don't struggle with that, because I just blurt things out, kind of, so I'm not keeping them inside. But if I was someone who was capable of keeping things inside, maybe I would struggle and wait and be like, OK, this person's around me all the time. Got to be careful, not upset them.

And then things can blow up that way. I think that's key.

And another thing that's key is multiple televisions in the home.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: What's the biggest sacrifice you think you make for him?

TIMPF: The biggest sacrifice that I make for him?

CAVUTO: Yes.

TIMPF: I would say that I am most really, really, really, really sloppy, messy person. I don't even think about it.

And now I'm really trying to make an effort to clean up and be less disgusting. Sounds basic, but it's pretty revolutionary for me.

CAVUTO: Really?

And what's he doing for you?

TIMPF: He's very patient. He's the most patient man in the world.

CAVUTO: There you go.

(LAUGHTER)

TIMPF: Yes. He would have to be.

CAVUTO: That, I agree with you. He is a saint. He is a wonderful human being.

TIMPF: He really is.

CAVUTO: And so are you, Kat.

TIMPF: Thank you.

CAVUTO: I don't want you to be dissuaded by all this stuff going on. I should talk to your future husband and just say, in the future, everything you say is right, everything he says is wrong.

(LAUGHTER)

TIMPF: I like that.

CAVUTO: Just start out that way. It can only go well.

All right, thank you, Kat, very, very much.

TIMPF: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Kat Timpf on all of that.

It is sad, though, in this environment, you see spikes in divorces and that sort of thing. But, hopefully, they kind of de-spike, people calm down. We all just got to either get back to our lives. That's a lot easier said than done, restaurants that won't open in New York City, and, once they do, they're at limited capacity.

It's pressure city. We understand that. And we're at each other's throats. Some people send nasty e-mails. They have a different way of handling it. But we will get through it. We always do.

Here comes "THE FIVE."

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