Uncut: Trump the Romney running mate?
'The Donald' on why 'ObamaCare' is bad for business and the country, whether he'd ever be Mitt Romney's VP, gas prices, daughter Ivanka and why people like him
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," March 28, 2012. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Now to Donald Trump. He says "ObamaCare," if it stands, is very, very bad for business and may even force some businesses to shut down. Why? Well, we spoke with Donald Trump earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, nice to see you.
DONALD TRUMP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Nice to see you.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Donald, the health care debate in the Supreme Court. There are a number of issues. One is, of course, whether or not it's constitutional, but then there are these sub-issues, whether it's a good idea for the country, whether it's good for business and how it actually affects business people.
So I'm curious, how do you anticipate the health care act, should it be enacted in full, be constitutional -- what would it do to you business-wise?
TRUMP: Well, it's not good for business. It's probably therefore not good for the country. It looks like it's not doing very well from the Obama side. It seems as though the lawyer had a very, very tough time in Court. And it'll be interesting to see what happens.
You can't always read that. A lot of times, you'll have a Justice come out and say all these things, you walk out, you think you won, and you didn't win. But it sounds like the various judges and actually numerous judges seem to be opposed to it.
VAN SUSTEREN: As a practical matter, though, with all the uncertainty, whether it's going to be constitutional or not constitutional and sort of the rolled-out implementation of it -- does it create uncertainty in business so that business people are sitting there, trying to figure out what to do, wasting time or not making investment decisions or whatever, waiting to see how it'll develop?
TRUMP: Nobody knows what to do. Nobody knows where we're going. Nobody knows what's happening with the country. Nobody knows what the replacement will be. But they figure any replacement is better.
It's really a disaster for the country, and it does leave great uncertainty. But the fact is that it was uncertain even if it got approved because nobody can understand it.
It's thousands of pages of jarble. Nobody knows what they're supposed to be doing. And it's truly a bad law that, hopefully, these judges, some of whom I know and are very smart people -- they're going to have the sense to say, Let's start all over again because it's no good.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have a sense of the cost effect on business?
TRUMP: A tremendous cost effect. Not only the uncertainty -- and the uncertainty that you mention's a very big thing, but a tremendous cost. I have a friend who's got a business. He's been sort of a medium-sized businessman for a long time. He thinks he's going to be closing up his business because of "ObamaCare."
He says, If it gets approved, I'm going to have to close up my business. He can't afford it. And you have that a lot. You have a lot of people saying that.
Another person I know who runs a major company is saying the cost to that company is going to be astronomical. He doesn't know what he's going to do.
Now, what does that mean? That means we're not going to compete successfully against China and other countries because they don't have this. So I think it's going to be very catastrophic for the country, if it gets approved.
Now, already, billions and billions of dollars have been spent, and it would be a tremendous shock to Obama, I think, and a tremendous negative if it didn't because he devoted almost his entire presidency, if you think about it, to "Obama care."
But "ObamaCare" is very, very bad for the country and very, very bad for business. There's no question about it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the numbers that we hear are 30, 40 million people uninsured, don't have health insurance. If they do need health care, they go to the hospital. Somebody picks up the freight. So in some ways, it seems like the health care law is a cost shift, trying to create more responsibility of people, but also shift the cost. I mean, it's not like -- like it's -- would be free without it. I mean, there is still a cost to the system even without the health care.
TRUMP: Well, that's true. And frankly, I'm a person that believes in taking care of people. People have to be taken care of. I often wonder, What do they do? They get sick. They have a problem. What do they do? And there are methods.
And you know, if they would allow free enterprise where -- as an example, if I want health care for my company, I can't go outside of the lines of New York state. That's done so that people within New York have a monopoly. This is federal. You can't go -- you can't cross state lines.
If you open this up to all states, to all places, to maybe all countries, you know, they have to have tremendous net worths and tremendous values -- but if you opened it up, I mean, you'd have -- you'd be able to make -- get better health care at a much reduced price.
And I want to take care of my people and we do take good care of my people. But the Obama situation is going to be horrible for business, and it won't be great health care, which is very important. If they would open it up so that many, many companies, really good companies -- you have to qualify, you have to have certain net worths and all of that because you don't want, you know, newly formed companies that have 2 cents in the bank.
But if they'd open it up so that you could go beyond New York state, if you happen to be -- but right now, if you're in New York state, I can't buy health insurance from somebody outside of the state!
VAN SUSTEREN: I hear that from so many business...
TRUMP: It's crazy!
VAN SUSTEREN: I hear that from so many business people. I mean, the insurance industry has a lock on it. They've gotten a monopoly on this. And there's been -- I don't see any sort of effort to sort of dislodge that historically. I mean...
TRUMP: The insurance industry has hired every single lobbyist in Washington and beyond. And they have a lock and it's disgusting. Frankly, if you opened it up so that 50 companies could compete for my insurance, numbers would come down and care would go up and you wouldn't need government involvement.
VAN SUSTEREN: If the...
TRUMP: Just that one thing alone would be fantastic.
VAN SUSTEREN: So -- and you think the reason we don't is because of the lobbyists, the power of the lobby.
TRUMP: Absolutely. The lobbyists. Everything's about the lobbyists.
VAN SUSTEREN: Washington for sale?
TRUMP: Well, it is, I mean, to a large extent. But in this case, it's terrible. And it's so basic. You know, I mention that to people, like you were saying, like, I've heard that from others. If you opened it up -- and even to other countries. I mean, if England has a great, great, powerful, wealthy, you know, wonderful insurance company that wants to bid in New York, let them bid.
You open it up to the world. Let China come in and bid, frankly, as far as I'm concerned. But you open it up so that people can go out -- I'd like to get 20 bids. I can't get 20 bids. You get no bids. So it's really terrible. And it's all because of the lobbyists and the insurance companies.
VAN SUSTEREN: If the...
TRUMP: And by the way, you wouldn't need "ObamaCare." You wouldn't need -- you know, I'm hearing that "ObamaCare" might cost a trillion dollars more and I even heard $1.8 trillion, than what we're paying right now in terms of the country. That's catastrophic for the country! The country can't afford it!
The judges -- the Supreme Court would do a tremendous service to the survival of the United States if they reject "ObamaCare." It cannot afford this. And it's not good care. I'm one for believing in good care. Number one, it's not good care. Number two, it's not affordable.
VAN SUSTEREN: What would you do with the 30 or 40 million people who are uninsured if we take away the national health care? What's your thought about those people?
TRUMP: Well, things can be done and things can be done much better than "ObamaCare." But money would be saved so much if you would do just what I said, that things could be done to take care of other people.
And I'm all for that. I mean, you know, I often say, I see people and they have no care, no medical care whatsoever. You -- what do they do? But they're really not going to be taken care of very well under this "ObamaCare" system.
And things could be done because we'd save so much money if we just let people bid, let all of these companies come in and bid. I would love - - as an example, I have a very wonderful company. I have a nice plan. I'd love to be able to go out to 20 different companies.
I'll tell you what. Over a period of -- a short period of time, my numbers would go way, way down, and the country's numbers would be reduced to peanuts by comparison to what we're talking about right now. So I'm hearing it's going to cost a trillion dollars more. I heard $1.8 trillion more. We cannot afford it. The country can't afford it. And it's lousy care.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, can I sort of bring this down to the sort of very common denominators in the -- you think it's a good idea to take care of people, but the way it's being executed with this health care is just a dumb idea.
TRUMP: Well, it'll ruin the country and...
VAN SUSTEREN: So it's worse than dumb. It's -- it's...
TRUMP: Well, it's ruinous. And it will destroy the country. The country's in deep trouble now. We owe $16 trillion. You know, a little while ago, it was $15 trillion. Now it's $16 trillion.
VAN SUSTEREN: Every time I come see you...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Every time, it's up another trillion, right? It just changes, you know? You don't even have to look anymore. You just know it's gone to $16 trillion. And it'll be $21 trillion pretty soon. It will be catastrophic if that gets approved by the Supreme Court, catastrophic. And the health care will not be good.
VAN SUSTEREN: If this is held unconstitutional by the end of June -- we expect the decision by the Supreme Court by the end of June -- what impact do you see that as having on the election for President Obama or even any of -- the Republican nominee, whoever that might be?
TRUMP: Well, I think it would be a huge positive impact for the country. I think that a lot of people in a lot of companies that are like my friend that was going to close up his shop, if he has to, he's going to probably end up closing. A lot of companies are going to stay in business. They won't be subject to, like, closure.
And I think that for Obama, obviously, I don't think it would be good. I mean, I've heard both sides of it. Somebody is trying to spin because it went so bad yesterday, that they're trying to say, Oh, gee, maybe it wouldn't be so bad for Obama if they lost.
No, I think it would be catastrophic. He spent a year-and-a-half of his political -- of his presidency doing nothing but focusing on this. I mean, if you consider it, it's really his hole because he's been focusing on this since he got in office. So I think it would be very catastrophic for Obama, but it would be more catastrophic for the country.
VAN SUSTEREN: If, though, under your theory, I'm thinking is that if -- if it would improve the economy because there'd be certainty in the economy if there's no national health care...
TRUMP: Good point.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... in some ways, that might help him because going into November, if the numbers are trending up in the economy...
TRUMP: Good point. If it loses, I think the economy will start getting better much more rapidly, and that would be actually -- very good, Greta. I'm very proud of you. That would be very good for Obama. So maybe he should just say, Let it be lost.
The Justices, if you listen to what they were saying yesterday, were really bringing out the salient points. And if they go that way, which doesn't always happen, it will be a great thing for the country. And you know what? If it's a great thing for the country and if things start getting better and the uncertainty is gone and lots of other things happen and the economy gets better, that's a really great thing for Obama. So in one sense, Obama would benefit.
VAN SUSTEREN: One of the things that I hear from some wealthy people in the Democratic Party -- and I'm wondering -- you have a lot of friends who are wealthy people who are Democrats -- is they -- they do not like that they have been insulted by the administration about, quote, "paying their fair share," as though they're cheats.
I'm curious whether you know any -- and I'm not (INAUDIBLE) whether you know wealthy Democrats, if they have soured on the president, or whether they're embracing him as much as '08?
TRUMP: Well, I think many people have soured, not just wealthy people, obviously. Many people have soured. You just have to look at his poll numbers and look at his popularity. Even his popularity is down. So many people have soured on the president.
I have many friends that are wealthy -- not only Democrats -- I mean, I have a lot of people that were wealthy that voted for him. You know, they believed in change. Look what we got with change. Not much. In fact, it was negative.
You know, the word "change" was beautiful four years ago. It sounded so great, change. But it wasn't change that was good. And I have many, many friends that are Democrats that are wealthy that will not be -- they can't even -- they can't even hear the name Obama without getting angry. So they feel very, very let down and disappointed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Straight ahead: Donald Trump will be back. He says President Obama and Energy Secretary Stephen Chu are making comments that the GOP should cash in on. So which comments? Donald Trump will tell you himself. That's coming up.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does Donald Trump want to be vice president of the United States? He talks about that, the election, skyrocketing gas prices. Once again here is Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Any thoughts on where those are headed?
TRUMP: Well, I think that's the big determinant of the election. I believe that Mitt Romney, who is a very good man, will get the nomination. I believe that gasoline prices will have a huge impact. If they don't start coming down, I don't think it's possible for Obama to win the election, personally. I think it will be a bigger victory that most people think. The polls are very early right now, and right now it's showing fairly even. But I will tell you that if gasoline goes up to $5 a gallon, which it could, could go up to $6 a gallon, you have OPEC laughing at how stupid this country is, how stupid we are. The sad part is that they think that all of us -- we have our leaders that are so stupid. Then you hear the head of energy say I want $7 and $8 fuel. And I am saying, where is this man coming from?
I think that statement is one of the -- two sound bites I would use if I were running for president as a Republican. Number one would be the secretary of energy's sound bite about $7 and $8 fuel. The other would be Obama saying very strongly that the president has absolutely no power over the price of gasoline or the price of oil, which is totally false, by the way, totally false. He has tremendous power over it, tremendous power, including doing a number on OPCE like they wouldn't even be there if it weren't for us. So the president has tremendous power over the price of energy, over the price of oil and gasoline.
But his sound bite that he has absolutely nothing to do and no power over the price of gasoline is a disaster for him. When he made that statement, I said, boy, they have to copy that one. And the other one is the secretary of energy, totally disastrous.
VAN SUSTEREN: Looking at the administration, how do you think the vice president has done? Biden, although, being a vice-president is not a job that is very visible, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, I'm curious what you think about those two.
TRUMP: I think Biden has been a very loyal person, to be honest with you. I think he has been a good vice president for the agenda that they set and he has been a very, very loyal person. I respect him for that.
Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman. I am biased because I have known her for years. I live in New York. She lives in New York. I really like her and her husband both a lot. I think she really works hard. And I think, again, she's given an agenda, it is not all of her, but I think she really works hard and I think she does a good job. I like her.
VAN SUSTEREN: She says she's out at the end of this term. Do you think we will see her again running for office?
TRUMP: I think so. Assuming she is healthy, I think she probably runs after the next four years, I would imagine.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you support her?
TRUMP: I don't want to get into this because I will get myself into trouble --
VAN SUSTEREN: That's why I asked you.
TRUMP: I just like her. I like her husband. Her husband made a speech on Monday and was very well received. He is -- he is a really good guy, and she's a really good person and woman.
VAN SUSTEREN: How does your nominee, Governor Mitt Romney, get around the Massachusetts health care in a general election if he is named the nominee, because the Obama administration says he's the godfather of health care?
TRUMP: They make a big point of saying that. But it is different. He has explained that so many times.
VAN SUSTEREN: But is it an explanation that you think will be persuasive?
TRUMP: It's a whole different area of the country. It's a different income group. It's a different state. And there are lots of reasons and there are differences, and he has really explained it.
And I don't think it's having much of an impact. I'll be honest. He has been using -- he has been talking about this for a year. He could have disclaimed it and said, I made a mistake. He chose not to do that. I think that was very smart. Instead, he said, why he did it there in that little section, why he did it and why it's different and how it's different from Obama and ObamaCare. And I think that he explained it very well. And obviously he's leading by a substantial margin, so it hasn't had the effect a lot of people hoped it would. He's winning.
VAN SUSTEREN: You made a lot of robo-calls, and the Romney campaign credits you with an impact there. I am curious what your strategic thoughts are if Mitt Romney is the nominee. Who should he look forward to as a vice president. Who would be effective contribution to help him win?
TRUMP: I think Chris Christie is a terrific guy. I think Senator Rubio would be very good. Florida is very important, a total swing state. I really think he could win Florida anyway because they are not happy with Obama, but I think Senator Rubio would be very good. I hear a lot about Portman, Senator, Portman. I hear he is very talented and a good man, but I don't know him at all. And of course his number one choice would be Donald Trump, but I am only kidding.
VAN SUSTEREN: Would you take it?
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I think he can do much better.
VAN SUSTEREN: Seriously, would you take it?
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. But I think that -- people like me. You know, people like me because I say it like it is. It is not -- it is not me. I say, China's ripping us off. Nobody else says it. Romney's been saying it. I say, OPEC is laughing at us. Fuel is $5, $6, in Chicago. I am driving to the airport and look at the gas stations where it is close to $5 in Chicago, close to $5, which is the highest place in the nation. But I am looking at the numbers and it almost looks surreal. I do say it like it is. I tell people this.
And I made a lot of predictions. We go into these countries, we fight a war, we spend trillions of dollars, our soldiers are killed and hurt so badly, and we leave. What do we get out of it? We get nothing. I said in Iraq, why don't we keep the oil? I said With Gadhafi, keep the oil. We are going in there, they asked for our help. The rebels, they don't even talk to us anymore. We spend billions on the rebels, getting rid of Gadhafi. We could have said to the rebels, listen, we will help you, we want 50 percent of your oil. You know what they would have done? Where do we sign? People hear this and they like me. What can I say?
VAN SUSTEREN: I know people like you.
TRUMP: You like me.
VAN SUSTEREN: But I tell you who a lot of people really like is your daughter.
TRUMP: That's true. Me, too.
VAN SUSTEREN: What I didn't know coming in here, I said, what are the cameras for, thinking we had competition for an interview, she has a new clothing line. Ready Wear is coming out tonight.
TRUMP: That's right, at Lord & Taylor and Macy's. She's doing great. She's a fabulous person. She is very philanthropic. She gives so much of my money away and her money away. She's just a great person. She's a nice person.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is it fun to watch? I mean, I actually met her five or six years ago when she was in her early 20s, but she's involved in your business in the development side. But she's also branched off to do her own thing.
TRUMP: She is. And it's sort of like a sideline. But it does very well. People respect her and they got to know her through "The Apprentice" and they really respect her. She has a great design sense.
VAN SUSTEREN: Last night on Jay Leno, he asked Governor Romney for one-word description of names he threw out. One name was Donald Trump. And he said, "Huge."
TRUMP: Well, I think that's -- I hope that's not a comment as to my weight.
VAN SUSTEREN: I am pretty sure it wasn't. What's your thought?
TRUMP: I think he meant it in a positive way. I'm a fan. I think he's a terrific man. I don't think he's quite understood, to be honest. I think that people don't understand how good he is. He's an excellent guy. He's solid as a rock. And that's what this country needs. He has great business insight. And I really don't think they get the true picture of Mitt Romney. I think his wife Ann is a fabulous woman.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does keeping Senator Santorum and Gingrich in make him a better candidate? Or is it over?
TRUMP: It's time to say, let's unite behind somebody, and that somebody has to be Mitt Romney. It's time.
VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, nice to see you, thank you.
TRUMP: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: If you want to see more of our interview, there is more. Just go to GretaWire. You can watch the entire interview there.
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