The Governor of Wisconsin and Prof. Ward Churchill

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," Feb. 18, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the "Unresolved Problem" segment tonight, right now the only college that has not canceled radical professor Ward Churchill (search) as a speaker is the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater (search). Churchill is set to speak there March 1st. He will be paid $4,000.

Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle (search) has been strangely silent about the entire situation. And some believe it's because he's indebted to some Native Americans in Wisconsin.— As you may know, Churchill flies under the Native American banner.

Joining us now from Madison is the former governor of Wisconsin, Scott McCallum, who was narrowly defeated by Doyle last November.

You know, all — Owens, the governor of Colorado is all over this. And I know he's a Republican conservative, Owens, and doesn't like politics that Churchill puts out... But Doyle, I mean, we must have called this guy 20 times. He's just not going to say a word. I'm not getting it. Are you?

SCOTT MCCALLUM, FMR. WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: No, it's embarrassing to the state of Wisconsin. This is representative, we've seen not only Bill Owens, who has done a very fine job in Colorado speaking out, we've seen in New York, Hamilton College (search), where they are not having this person speak.

So it's embarrassing to the state of Wisconsin to have this type of conversation going on. There are a number of reasons he may, far be it from me to delve into his thinking. It may be — I mean, I was there in 9/11. I was governor during 9/11, and maybe Governor Doyle doesn't understand the depth of feeling in this country towards terrorism and what is going on. Maybe there are other reasons.

O'REILLY: All right. Now our investigation shows that the reason that Churchill was invited to Wisconsin-Whitewater to begin with was because they wanted him to talk on Native American issues, and then, in the campaign that you waged against Doyle, Doyle took a lot of money from Native American casino interests. Is that correct?

MCCALLUM: Well, that is correct, took a lot, and it came right down towards the end of what was going to happen. But the big money in campaigns in Wisconsin — and I suspect is occurring in many states throughout the country — We used to think it was the teachers union, but there's a tremendous amount of money in gaming, and they've become major players in Wisconsin politics.

O'REILLY: Sure. Well, I mean, I'm trying to make a linkage there that Doyle's not going to say anything because he doesn't want to tee off Native Americans who put him into office by all the money. Is that beyond belief? Am I crazy here or what?

MCCALLUM: There — Doyle did receive a great deal of money from the tribes, and it came in right at the end, based on compacts and discussions of compacts. I had compacts agreed to, but not signed, and was told in a meeting that there was a lot of money involved if I would just allow the compacts to be in perpetuity and reduce the take for the State of Wisconsin.

O'REILLY: All right. They came to you as well, and you didn't...

MCCALLUM: That's correct.

O'REILLY: You wouldn't make the deal, but, apparently, Doyle did make the deal. Now...

MCCALLUM: Well, wait a second...

O'REILLY: You know this guy, Doyle. You ran against him, you debated him, and — is he not — is he a shy guy? I mean, is this something that he wouldn't pay attention to, this Churchill thing?

MCCALLUM: Well, Bill, I don't think you're going to find many shy people that are in the political business. Of course, not. He knows what is going on. And, unfortunately, he won't respond to you. The important thing is...

O'REILLY: Well, he won't respond anybody, will he? Have you seen him talk to the Milwaukee paper or the Madison paper? Has he been on record about this Churchill thing anywhere?

MCCALLUM: I haven't seen anything. It's beyond me.

O'REILLY: He's not. I mean, what...

MCCALLUM: It's beyond me because...

O'REILLY: He wouldn't say a word.

MCCALLUM: This is the state of Wisconsin. It is very important to our reputation, what we are trying to project, and yet our governor is silent.

O'REILLY: He's MIA on a huge story.

Now what about the folks of Wisconsin? You know, it's a very closely divided state between Democrats and Republicans. It went for Kerry, but by a very small margin. How do they see this guy Churchill? I mean, are they happy he's coming to the university?

MCCALLUM: Well, you're right. It did go for a Kerry in a very small margin, but let me say I've written some small articles as a senior fellow. I think there can be some disagreement as to whether Kerry really won Wisconsin or not.

But the state is split. You've got the traditional left that are saying let the guy go on, this is fine, and I think you've got most hard-working Wisconsinites — because what this fellow has said really is not just an attack on those that were in the Twin Towers— it's an attack on working Americans, and we've got a...

O'REILLY: Yes. I mean, anybody who...

MCCALLUM: ... hardworking, blue-collar class in the State of Wisconsin.

O'REILLY: And — well, it isn't the blue-collar he's just after, anybody who sells insurance or sells bonds or stocks, and they're little Nazis, and that's what he said.

Well, look, if you see Doyle around, tell him I'd like to know what he thinks. I mean...

MCCALLUM: He hasn't been calling and ask for my advice.

O'REILLY: I mean, it's ridiculous. It's a huge story. We'll continue to follow it. And, you know, Churchill's supposed to show up March 1.

Governor, thanks very much.

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