Ted Cruz: Heidi Cruz is not remotely scared of Donald Trump
Republican presidential candidate addresses attacks from his rival, National Enquirer report in an exclusive 'Kelly File' interview
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," April 4, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: And welcome to "The Kelly File: Face to Face With the Candidates."
I'm Megyn Kelly. We are coming to you tonight from the Madison Masonic Center in Wisconsin where at this time tomorrow night, the polls will be closing in the latest contest to help determine who the Republican standard bearer will be. You can see the enthusiasm in the room. Tonight's broadcast is part of a Fox News primetime lineup of town halls with the Republican presidential candidates. Including Greta van Susteren who interviewed Ohio Governor John Kasich earlier this evening.
Donald Trump is coming up with Sean Hannity. And right now, I am here with Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
A little later in the hour, we will also be joined by Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker who recently endorsed Senator Cruz. Tonight's interview comes at a critical time for the candidates as Donald Trump looks to lock up this nomination, but he's facing tough competition from his rivals who are hoping to derail the Trump train. Forty two delegates are at stake in tomorrow's open primary here in Wisconsin and the latest polling shows Senator Cruz in the lead among Wisconsin voters.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
So let's get right to it. Great to see you, Senator. Thank you for being here.
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Great to be with you, Megyn.
KELLY: So Donald Trump is predicting victory for him in Wisconsin.
CRUZ: I'm shocked.
KELLY: Are you doing the same for you?
CRUZ: Listen, that's going to be up to the men and women of Wisconsin. I have learned to under promise and over deliver. What I will say is, I could not be more encouraged by the enthusiasm, the energy we're seeing across the state. We've been barnstorming the state. We've been on a bus tour traveling the state and we've been -- Scott Walker has been with us, Carly Fiorina has been with us, Mike Lee has been with us. And the passion and the excitement. I think the people of Wisconsin are fed up with the direction we're going. They're fed up with the Obama/Clinton economy. And they're ready for a strong, principled, positive, optimistic, forward- looking agenda to bring jobs back to America. That's my focus. I'm very encouraged what I'm seeing here.
KELLY: All right. Let's talk about some of the events on the campaign trail recently. As most of America now knows, last week, a week and a half ago, Donald Trump retweeted a nasty tweet about your wife, Heidi. And it an unfavorable, unflattering screen grab of her next to a nicer picture of his wife, Melania, and he this weekend did something we don't see Trump do a lot which was he came out and said that was a mistake and that he probably shouldn't have done it. At the time he did it, you called him a sniveling coward. Does this admission that it was a mistake change your feelings?
CRUZ: Well, listen, Donald saying he made a mistake, I suppose miracles can happen.
(LAUGHTER)
But to be honest, it's gotten to the point, as this campaign has gone on, the silliness, the personal attacks, the nastiness, the cursing from Donald, you know, my reaction is who cares. I don't care what he says anymore. I don't care what he tweets. What I'm focused on is how do we solve the real problems of this country? America has real challenges and these are serious times. This is not the time for a circus sideshow. This is the time for a leader to step up and say, we are going to take the boot of the federal government off the backs of small businesses, we're going to bring jobs back to America, we're going to defend the constitution and bill of rights and we'll going to keep America safe from radical Islamic terrorism.
So, listen, Donald doesn't have real answers on any of those issues, so his response whenever he gets upset is he yells and he screams and he curses and he insults people. That's his natural safe zone. You know something about that personally, Megyn, but that's how he treats everybody is when he's nervous, when he's scared, his security blanket is to insult people. I haven't responded in kind. I'm not going to. I'm going to focus on the issues that I think matter to the American people.
KELLY: This had to affect you because you are a presidential candidate, you are a U.S. senator but you're also a human being. You love your wife. And there's been no apology. The question is, should there be? And what are the other threat that he has made against her that you need to watch it or he will, quote, he wrote, spill the beans on her.
CRUZ: Listen, I know Donald, it makes him feel really tough. It makes him feel like a very, very big man to threaten people and in particular he seems to have a problem with strong women. I don't know why that is, but it seems to really bother him. There are no beans to spill, and when he engages in his threats, you know, the great thing -- I love Heidi with all my heart. You've gotten to know Heidi in the course of this campaign. She is brilliant, she is beautiful. You know, she's been in the business world for 20 years. She's been working at a number of different places in the business world.
Listen, finance is tough. It's rough and tumble. She has dealt with bullies. She's dealt with people who think that they can just, you know, yell and scream at a strong woman and make her cower. Let me tell you, Heidi Cruz is not remotely scared of Donald Trump and so her attitude, she just laughs this off and says, listen, everyone knows what Donald says has little to no bearing on reality.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
CRUZ: Our focus, our focus is on our little girls. You know, we're traveling through Wisconsin right now. We've got both Caroline and Catherine. They're seven and five. We're in the bus, we're going out, we're meeting with the people of Wisconsin, we're focused on the challenges. The real challenges in this country. Not silliness of whatever Donald late at night -- when his fears are racking at him, whatever he decides to tweet. I don't think people care anymore. And I think one of the things we're seeing as every day goes on is his own conduct is demonstrating who this man is.
KELLY: Last question on that and I'll move on. You mentioned you were not looking forward to talking to your daughters about that kind of tweeting and that kind of direct attack on their mother. Have you? Have you had to explain that?
CRUZ: You know, their reaction -- they've been through this whole circus and they have grown, I mean, they've always loved and admired their mommy. But they look at mommy now, they see her standing, they see bullies attacking her. And, you know, it's one of the things I'm really proud of is, our girls are seeing a strong woman who knows what she believes, who stands up and can do anything. That's the message I really hope little girls and little boys all across the country see.
KELLY: And now speaking of the ugliness on the campaign trail, there was a nasty report in the "National Enquirer" that went everywhere and that's how it works in today's media, right, you can have an organization like that pretty it once and then everybody runs with it. That suggested you had committed adultery, that you had had five affairs in the course of your marriage. So I'll ask you to get it out of the way, have you committed adultery in your marriage?
CRUZ: I have not. That attack was complete and utter garbage. It was complete lies. And it came from Donald Trump and his henchmen. You know, you look at the story, the one person it quoted was Roger Stone, a man who's been Donald's chief political adviser.
KELLY: They severed relations officially.
CRUZ: But no, they haven't. If you look at what Roger Stone is doing every day, he planned Donald's political campaign, he organized it, he brought it together and today Roger --
KELLY: He left it in October.
CRUZ: But every day Roger is the attack dog for the Trump campaign. Roger spends every day attacking me, spreading attacks. It's what he did for Richard Nixon 40 years ago. He is a -- his entire business has been dirty tricks, has been lies, has been personal smears and the CEO of the National Enquirer, a guy named David Pecker, which I have to say is a name right out of "Charles Dickens" --
KELLY: Oh, boy.
(LAUGHTER)
CRUZ: -- is close friends with Donald Trump. They are close friends and, indeed, Donald Trump suggested that David Pecker, the head of the National Enquirer should be the new editor of Time magazine. I mean, how ludicrous is that? The National Enquirer has endorsed Donald Trump and so the Enquirer is Donald's pet attack machine, so what it does is spreads rumors and lies attacking every other candidate and then it just praises Donald and it's just garbage. Look, Megyn, people are tired. Those reports, they are not -- they are not a little bit true, they're not slightly true, they're utter and complete made up lies. I'll tell you.
KELLY: They are not going to be any e-mails or texts or videos surfacing --
CRUZ: It's completely made up nonsense. It's simply not true. I have always been faithful to my wife. I love my wife. She is my best friend in the whole world and this is the kind of garbage that the Trump campaign engages in, and you know why? Because they can't debate substance. As you know, Donald Trump --
KELLY: They say the Rubio campaign has been shopping this rumor for months.
CRUZ: It is utter nonsense. The Trump campaign was e-mailing it out. They were sending it out. Donald's own social media director was tweeting out these attacks.
KELLY: Should we be caring about this? I mean, Trump has, you know, infamously had an extramarital affair that made all the papers when he was married to Ivana. Should the American voters care about this or is this a personal issue? What's your take on it?
CRUZ: Listen, I don't think it is a state secret that Donald's personal life has not been immaculate but I have no interest in going there.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
CRUZ: I haven't gone there. I'm not going to go there. I don't care what Donald does in his personal life. What I care about, you know, you asked earlier about an apology, I don't care who Donald Trump apologizes to. You know the apology I want, I want to see an apology from Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to the millions of people who are suffering right now, to the single moms who've had their hours forcibly reduced because of ObamaCare. That's the apology I want to see. Enough with this silliness. Let's focus on turning the country around.
KELLY: Very good. Now we're going to get to the issues and the voters who are here in this room, some of whom have questions for Senator Cruz. Stay with us. We've got that right after this break. Much more with Senator Ted Cruz coming up here from Madison, Wisconsin.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
KELLY: And welcome back to Madison, Wisconsin, with Texas Senator and Republican presidential candidate, Ted Cruz. Want to get right now to our audience. Some of whom have questions for the good senator. And I want to take it first to Lee Myer of Madison who has a question about abortion.
LEE MYER, MODERATE REPUBLICAN: Thank you. I consider myself a moderate Republican and I'm pro-choice. One of my fears and concerns is that if you become president, you may make abortion illegal nationwide. So, what's your message to me and other women and men regarding that issue and that fear?
CRUZ: Well, Lee, thank for joining us, thank you for coming out. You know, the issue of life has been an issue that has torn this country apart for many, many decades. And my view, I'm pro-life, I believe that we should protect every human life and we should protect every life from the moment of consumption. And --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
And I will say, there is more and more consensus we're seeing on this issue, as we see people coming together to bar extreme practices, things like partial-birth abortion, where we're saying large consensuses of American people saying this practice is gruesome, it's barbaric. It is my hope that we see people's hearts and minds change but this is an issue where it's going to take time for people's hearts and minds to change. That if you're going to change a major issue of public policy, the way to do so, I believe, is at the ballot box. You know, I have -- my whole life I have been a passionate defender of the constitution and I think judicial activism is wrong. One of the worst things about the Supreme Court in 1973 --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
-- stepping in and seizing this issue is it took it out of control of the people. It said that five unelected judges will decide this issue, rather than 330 million Americans. I believe under our constitution we have a Democratic society, and that if someone wants to pass legislation, limiting or expanding abortion, the way to do that is to convince your fellow citizens to make the case at the ballot box and I think that ultimately is the check for both your views and my views that you've got to convince our fellow citizens, but I think all of us should agree that it's a much better system to have important public policy issues decided by the people at the ballot box rather than five unelected lawyers just imposing their views on everybody else.
KELLY: So is Roe v. Wade settled law in your view?
CRUZ: No. And I think it was -- it was a classic example of activism. It was a --
KELLY: Even if that's true, though, here we are some 40 years later. What would President Cruz do about it?
CRUZ: Well, look, I think there's a great deal, you can do one of the things you can do for example. And I intend to do is re-impose what are called the Mexico City rules that Ronald Reagan put in place that prohibit federal taxpayer dollars from funding abortions, funding abortions overseas, funding organizations --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
KELLY: What was domestic -- there's this whole dustup this week where Donald Trump came out and said he believed that women should be punished if abortion were made illegal and a woman had an abortion, that he believed women should be punished. Then he dialed that back and reversed himself on it. What's your view?
CRUZ: Well, look, I think the statement Donald Trump made this week really illustrates -- I mean, it was a bizarre statement saying that he believed women should be punished. It showed that he's not considered seriously, this issue or many of the issues facing this country, that he's really just willing to say whatever he can say to try to win votes. You know, part of being pro-life is valuing every human life, the unborn child, but also valuing the mother, celebrating the mother. I'll tell you, many times the victims of abortion are not just the unborn children who never get a chance to live, but it's the moms who are racked with guilt and it is a --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
-- it has, a great many women have suffered because of the tragedy of abortion, and we need to be celebrating and protecting all human life. And it was interesting, I thought one of the most insightful observations on this came from Jonah Goldberg at "National Review" where he was talking about Donald's comments on abortion and he said, these comments are the comments of a liberal who is trying to say what he thinks conservatives want to hear. So from a Liberal's perspective, Donald, Jonah was speculating, believes that conservatives want to hear, punish women. No conservative actually believes that, but if you're trying to pretend to be something you're not, you get the rhetoric wrong, you don't understand it and Jonah analogized it to the KKK.
You know, when Donald was doing an interview on CNN and was asked about David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan supporting him and Donald refused to denounce the KKK in that interview and Jonah said, listen, that's a liberal who thinks, well, gosh, conservatives don't want me to denounce the Klan. Now, listen, anyone who's actually a conservative is perfectly happy saying the Klan is evil, it is bigoted, it's wrong, it has no place in society and if you --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
-- if you're speaking from poor conviction, you know that because you're speaking from the heart.
KELLY: In defense of Mr. Trump, he had denounced it online and at a press conference the previous Friday and then went on to do it again. But wait, I want to ask you just to follow up because you don't favor a rape or an incest exception to abortion and for people like me, this may be a problem in getting behind President Ted Cruz. They think you may be too far right on social issues.
CRUZ: Well, listen, let's talk -- you know, when it comes to rape, I've spent a lot of years in law enforcement. I was the solicitor general in the state of Texas and I have handled cases with horrific cases of rape, of people who committed child rain, people -- I went before the U.S. Supreme Court and argued in defense of state laws imposing capital punishment for the very worst child rapists. And when it comes to rape, rape is a horrific crime against the humanity of a person and needs to be punished and punished severely but at the same time, as horrible as that crime is, I don't believe it's the child's fault. And we weep at the crime. We want to do everything we can to prevent the crime on the front end and to punish the criminal, but I don't believe it makes sense to blame the child.
KELLY: You know what the people who favor these exceptions say, they say you'd be forcing the mother to go through unspeakable trauma to carry her rapist's baby for nine months.
CRUZ: Well, I'll tell you as a practical matter, Megyn, as I mentioned before and visiting with Lee, in order for any legislation to be passed on this topic, you have to convince your fellow citizens. That's ultimately the check in a Democratic society is you've got to convince 330 million Americans -- and you know, before Roe versus Wade, it was a question state by state. So, here it would be a question for Wisconsin. What should the laws be governing abortion? If Roe versus Wade was not the law, it would be up to the people of Wisconsin to decide and the people of Wisconsin might decide to allow some exceptions or not allow some exceptions.
Everyone agrees that you always want to protect the life of the mother, but if you trust the people -- it's one of the reasons why the constitution and bill of rights can be such a unifying document and approach because ultimately the constitution entrusts the people with making these decisions, not having them forced on us by an elected judges.
KELLY: I want to get this in. We have another questioner who wants to ask you about ObamaCare. But we'll do that after the break. Let me ask you about religion. Because you recently said the following, quote, "Those in politics have an obligation not to wear their faith on their sleeve. And a lot of people said, huh, come again, Ted Cruz? Right? Because you've been out there regularly asking voters to pray, that God will, quote, "continue this awaking in this campaign," you're regularly quote from scripture on the stump and you actually told your volunteers that they need to, quote, "strap on the full armor of God." So, how is that not wearing your religion on your sleeve?
CRUZ: Well, listen, number one, this is the point I've made for many, many years, that politicians, you know, there are far too many politicians who use religion as a cloak to hide who they are. And I think that's wrong. I think you have to be particularly careful against that. Now, I recognize that many in the media try to paint anyone who's a conservative, anyone who's actually a Christian, to paint them as some sort of crazy nut. I'm not going to hide my faith. I am a Christian. I'm going to acknowledge it. I am not going to be ashamed of Jesus.
KELLY: What's wearing it on your sleeve if not, you know, put on the full armor of God?
CRUZ: Well, let me give you an example. What I talk about every day on the campaign trail, I talk about jobs, I talk about freedom, I talk about security. I'm not running to be pastor in chief. I'm not asking you to elect me to be your pastor. It's not the job of the president to stand up and give a sermon, to evangelize. It's not the job of the president to tell people you're going to hell. That is not a president's job. No one wants to see a president trying to do that. It is the job of the president to be commander-in-chief, to defend this nation, to keep us safe, to defeat radical Islamic terrorism. It is the job of the President to fight against taxes and regulations that are killing small businesses and destroying jobs.
KELLY: Informed by your faith, inspired by it.
CRUZ: Look, my faith is integral to who I am. But, you know, the great thing about the bill of rights, actually we were talking a minute ago about the bill of rights. So, I've done town halls where people stand up and say I'm an atheist, why should I support you? And you know what? The First Amendment religious liberty, it's the very first liberty protected in the First Amendment in the bill of rights, it applies to everybody, it applies to Christians --
KELLY: And you know what you're going to say, the atheists say, I don't want to have to sit there in the school setting and so on, and have to participate or even watch as everyone stands up around me and says the pledge which mentioned God or says a prayer after some function at school.
CRUZ: But the constitution doesn't give you a heckler's veto. You don't have the right -- no one forces you to participate in anything. You have the right not to participate, but you don't have the right to silence everybody else.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
The First Amendment protects the -- liberty of Christians, of Jews, of Muslims, of atheists, every one of us, we have a right to seek out and worship God, to live according to our own faith and conscience. If that is religious faith, you have the right to live according to that. If you're an atheist, you have the right to live according to that. And, you know, the amazing thing is, the left loves to preach tolerance and diversity. There is nothing so intolerant as a leftist who says, don't you dare say Jesus around me, I will not tolerate the name of Jesus. You know what? Live and let live. And recognize that Americans can choose to follow our own path.
KELLY: Let's leave it at that. Because we want to get to ObamaCare right after this break with another voter question. More with Texas Senator Ted Cruz when we come back.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Welcome back to the Madison Masonic Center here in Madison, Wisconsin.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
I'm here with Texas Senator and republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz, and some of his supporters. We want to get to another audience question. This one comes from Marley Bell, she's a Wisconsin Native and she is a nurse practitioner. Hi, Marley
MARLEY BELL, NURSE PRACTITIONER: Hi. I would like to welcome you, Senator Cruz, and Megyn as well, to the great State of Wisconsin. Senator Cruz, in the past, you stated that you intend to repeal and replace Obamacare.
CRUZ: Right.
BELL: When you become president of the United States, how do you specifically plan to do this? And how quickly can those changes be enacted?
CRUZ: Well, Marley, thank you for that question and thank you for your hard work as a nurse practitioners. Thank you for the difference you make in the lives of so many patients.
The question you raise is incredibly important. If you look at ObamaCare; ObamaCare is the biggest job killer in this country. Millions of Americans are hurting under it, have lost their jobs, have been forced into part-time work. Millions of Americans have lost their health insurance, have lost their doctors, have seen their premiums skyrocket.
And I'm sure you're seeing in the practice of medicine the incredibly harmful impact, increased government involvement is having with doctors and nurses being able to provide the medical care that all of us want.
If I'm elected president, we will repeal every word of it, but you're exactly right, we're not done with that. Everyone agrees we need health care reform. And I think health care reform should follow some principles. It should expand competition. It should empower patients to make health care decisions in consultation with their doctors. And it should disempower government from getting in between us and our doctors.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: Thank you, Marley. So, let's talk about ObamaCare just a bit. You recently said that you believe -- maybe you could have been a little less hard charging on a couple of your battles on Capitol Hill because you are known as hard charging, that you don't back down from a fight which some people love about you. Other people say how's he going to get anything done?
And I thought it was interesting you actually admitted, you came out and said maybe I should have pulled back in some of my fights on Capitol Hill. Which ones?
CRUZ: Listen, I'm passionate. It is who I am. I believe -- you know, the thing with me, you know exactly what you're going to get. I spent my whole life literally from when I was a teenager fighting to defend the Constitution, fighting to defend free market principles.
So, on the battle against ObamaCare, I'm proud of having stood with many Americans against the bipartisan Washington elites in fighting to stop ObamaCare. But you know, I mean, I wrote a book last year called "A Time for Truth" and it's a very candid reflection on my life including the battles in the Senate. And I talk about, for example, the fight over ObamaCare.
That I wish in hindsight I'd done a better job of reaching out to a lot of the key thought leaders, of looping people in on our strategy, on building a broader coalition at first. That I thought what we were trying to do was evident and it wasn't nearly as evident with people who should have been our allies who weren't.
And listen, any rational person you look at battles and try to learn, OK, how could we have fought this better. And that's an example of something where there's no doubt we need to bring together and unify people. Now, I will note, fast forwarding to today, if you look at where the republican primary is right now, we're seeing that unity behind this campaign.
What is amazing, we're seeing the 65 percent to 70 percent of republicans who recognize Donald Trump would be a disaster as our nominee, that nominating Donald Trump would elect Hillary Clinton. Hillary beats Donald by double digits.
KELLY: She beats you by three digits.
CRUZ: Depends on the poll.
KELLY: Real Clear Politics average.
CRUZ: Well, but according to Fox News, which I think you think has some credible, Fox News last week...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: With all due respect from our polling unit.
(APPLAUSE)
CRUZ: Last week, Fox News' poll had Donald losing to Hillary Clinton by double digits, had me beating Hillary 47 to 44. And let me tell you the most important thing about that poll, among young people, it had me beating Hillary Clinton by 14 points.
KELLY: But if you just want to go with electability, then John Kasich should be the nominee, beating her by 11 points.
CRUZ: Except someone is not electable if they can't get elected. John Kasich...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: That's what Donald Trump says about you.
(APPLAUSE)
CRUZ: John Kasich has lost 30 states. He's lost every state other than his home state and he's mathematically eliminated from the race. He cannot be the republican nominee. He can't beat Donald Trump.
KELLY: Because there is a rule in the RNC, sort of rulebook that says you have to win a majority in at least eight states to even get on the ballot from the vote.
CRUZ: That's true but it's even simpler than that. If you lose 49 states, you are not going to be the republican nominee.
(APPLAUSE)
Our campaign to date as of yesterday, we have now beaten Donald Trump in 11 states across the country. I am very hopeful after Wisconsin votes tomorrow that that will be 12 states across the country.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: All right. Let's leave it there for now. Stay with us. We have much more with Texas Senator Ted Cruz right after this break as he makes his final push in Wisconsin ahead of tomorrow's crucial primary. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: And we are back now with Senator Ted Cruz in beautiful Madison, Wisconsin, just hours before the voters go to the polls in this critical state.
(APPLAUSE)
Want to give it over to another voter who is here with a question on the deficit. Carol Ross of Fitchburg, Wisconsin. Take it away, Carol.
CAROL ROSS, WISCONSIN RESIDENT: Good morning, Senator.
CRUZ: Good morning.
ROSS: My question concern, has been for a long time, the rate of our debt that's growing with the country, it's approached $20 trillion as I understand recently.
What will you do as president to stop this growth and to end the addictive spending our country has or our lawmakers have, and to ensure our children's future?
CRUZ: Well, Carol, thank you for that question. It's very, very important.
You know, I'm reminded of a few years back in 2012, I was speaking at the republican national convention and I talked about the national debt then. And I talked about our two little girls, Caroline and Catherine. And that night, Heidi and I went back to the hotel room, and I pulled out my iPhone and began looking at Twitter.
And Paula Poundstone, a comedian, it turns out she was watching that night. I guess she had nothing better to do. But she sent a tweet, she said, "Ted Cruz just said when his daughter was born, the national debt was $10 trillion. Now it's $16 trillion. What the heck did she do?"
Heidi and I laughed pretty hard, but, you know, Caroline, as we talked about earlier in the show, Caroline is turning 8 in two weeks. In Caroline's short life our national debt it's gone from 10 trillion to it's now over $19 trillion.
I mean, what we're doing is wrong. It is immoral. And no generation in American history has ever done this. Our parents didn't do it to us. Their parents didn't do it to them. If we don't stop, our kids will spend their whole lives not working to meet the challenges of the future, not working to meet their priorities but simply paying off the debts of their deadbeat parents and grandparents.
I think that's one of the things that the core of this election, is we need serious leadership to fix it. And let me tell you how we fix it. The most important tool to turning around the debt is economic growth. If you look at numbers, I'm a numbers guy. The dominant variable that impacts the federal budget is growth.
From World War II to today, our economy has grown on average 3.3 percent a year. From 2008 until today, it's grown only 1.2 percent a year. If we stay in the stagnant Obama growth of 1 and 2 percent, we can't fix these problems.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: Let me ask you, picking up on our conversation before the break, you say that you're a numbers guy, that you're a numbers guy. But here are some numbers for you. Going forward in this race, California, Donald Trump is up over you eight points. Pennsylvania he's up over you 16.7. Maryland, he's up over you nine points. New York, up 39 points over Ted Cruz.
Your support according to the polls now gets weaker, not stronger going forward. So, how do you possibly avoid a contested convention at this point, Senator?
CRUZ: Well, let's go through those numbers. I'll tell you in California, the latest poll in California showed Donald and me tied. I can tell you 538, who are the numbers gurus who are at The New York Times give me a 55 percent chance of winning the State of California in their primary.
I believe we're going to do very, very well there, but let's not talk about predictions in the past. Let's talk about the last two weeks. You know, one of the things that the media has not covered is in the last two weeks Donald Trump has gotten his rear end whipped over and over and over again for a straight two weeks.
(APPLAUSE)
Let's start with Utah. Utah two weeks ago, we won 69 percent of the vote. Nearly 70 percent of the vote. We got all of the delegates, all 40 delegates in Utah. It was a landslide victory for us in Utah. Let's fast forward to two nights ago. Two night ago in Colorado. Colorado, two congressional districts voted. They voted on six delegates. We won all six. We sent six for six. Donald Trump went 0 for six in Colorado.
Yesterday, in North Dakota. Yesterday, they had their convention in North Dakota, they selected their delegates. Of the delegates who have declared who they're supporting, we got 18. Donald got one. Now, 18 to 1, I'll take that ratio all day long.
(APPLAUSE)
And then tomorrow night here in Wisconsin, listen, let me point out the media had been saying for weeks and weeks and weeks that Wisconsin was not going to be a good state for us, that this was a natural state for Donald Trump, that Wisconsin was a purple to blue state, that Wisconsin, there weren't that many Evangelicals here, that it's a heavily manufacturing blue collar state.
I can't tell you how many media analysts I heard saying, well, Donald Trump is going to run away with Wisconsin. One thing they forgot is the actual voters of Wisconsin. I believe tomorrow night we're going to have a terrific victory here in Wisconsin.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: We're going to have theory to a man who has endorsed Senator Ted Cruz, Governor Scott Walker. When we come back after this break, the Wisconsin governor and one-time candidate in this very race. Scott Walker will join us for a final round of questions. Don't go away.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Well, at one time they were rivals.
(APPLAUSE)
But last week, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker made a big-time endorsement of Senator Ted Cruz for president. He joins us now. Great to see you, Governor. Thank you so much for being here.
GOV. SCOTT WALKER, R-WIS.: Great to be here. Welcome to Wisconsin.
KELLY: Thank you. It's great to be with you. So, why did you endorse Senator Cruz? Because Donald Trump has come out and said you did it because he said he killed your presidential aspirations in about two minutes.
WALKER: Well, here in the Midwest we value people who are for something, not against something. And Ted Cruz is for a better future for my children and all the other children you see here in the State of Wisconsin. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: OK. With respect, that's just, that's like a platitude.
WALKER: Well, there's three specific reasons. I've mentioned when I've been out and about. One is, this constitutional conservative. Why that matters for me here and a lot of the lawmakers who serve just around the block at the Capitol.
So, we want someone who understands, as our founders did, that the Constitution clear relays the power not in Washington, but in the states and with the people, that's the first reason. The second reason, we really, the people here know this, they helped us some four years ago, battle against that recall.
We love someone who's willing to stand up for what they believe in, stick to their guns even against incredible pressure taking the power out of the hands of the big government special interests, putting it firmly in the hands of the hardworking taxpayers.
And third, practically, we're very practical people here in the Midwest as am I. I want someone who can both win the nomination and defeat Hillary Clinton in November. The only person left in this race who can do that is Ted Cruz.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: What are you predicting for what's going to happen tomorrow night?
WALKER: I think Ted -- I think Ted is going to win. And not only is he going to win, as we showed four years ago, we want to recall here, I think Ted's victory is going to show the nation a pivot point and we're going to see him well on his way towards the nomination. Bringing our party together in Cleveland, and then going to on to defeat the real opponent Hillary Clinton in the point.
KELLY: A pivot point. All right. I want to -- stand by because we have Larry Paik (ph) is here, who is a retired dentist and he has with a question for you, Senator, about unity.
CRUZ: OK.
KELLY: Go ahead, Larry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, good morning, Senator.
CRUZ: Good morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The past 10 years this country has been totally divided and torn apart and what concerns me on seeing this carried over into the Republican Party with the adversity between all of the candidates...
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... following. And I was wondering, what will you do to unite this party? Because it has going to be united in order to sustain the election in November.
CRUZ: Well, Larry, thank you for that question.
Let me observe my father-in-law, Heidi's dad, is also a retired dentist, so I'm working hard to earn the retired dentist vote.
You know, I think you are absolutely right. We've got to see unity, we've got see the party coming together. It's what I'm working to do every day. You know, I mentioned before of the 17 candidates who started this race a year ago, 5 of those candidates are now supporting our campaign.
That is a powerful demonstration of unity to see candidates across the ideological spectrum coming together, uniting and you know what? We're saying is we're seeing incredible support here in Wisconsin, we're seeing incredible support among women. We've got a double digit lead among women here in the State of Wisconsin.
We're seeing incredible support among young people. And I think one of the keys to unity is not engaging in the personal attacks and the insults and going to the mud that other candidates have. And so, when Donald or anyone else attacks me, attacks my family, attacks me personally, I don't respond in kind. You've never heard me disparage him personally attack his family. I don't intend to.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: For the record -- you did call Donald Trump a sniveling coward. In your defense, it was after he attacked your wife but there was one time.
CRUZ: I will take that as a fair correction and as I said then, not much ticks me off but if you attack my wife and if you attack my family and my kids, that does it.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: I want to ask you, though, because there is a question about whether you will support him if he becomes the nominee. You've been a little reluctant to answer that in recent days. Will you do so now explicitly? I know you say he's not going to be. If he is, will you support him?
CRUZ: Well, listen, I don't make a practice of supporting people that attack my wife and attack my family, and I believe Donald as the nominee is a disaster. That it hands the election to Hillary Clinton.
KELLY: Right. But that's a dodge. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: So, let me give you the very direct answer. I don't want to see Donald as the nominee so we are going to beat him. We are working every minute of every day.
(APPLAUSE)
KELLY: That's isn't a direct answer. That is not a direct answer.
CRUZ: It's as direct as you're going do get.
KELLY: No. Because here's what people say. Understanding that you would be upset he attacked your wife, you know, Trump has done many controversial things in this election which have cost him some republican votes.
And so, there some out there who say is it just about your wife or there are greater issues that you have that could potentially stand in the way of you supporting him if he becomes the nominee? And I have the same for you, Governor Walker, whether you would support him if he were the nominee.
CRUZ: Well, listen. I am campaigning because our country I think is hanging in the balance. If Hillary is the president we'll lose the Supreme Court for a generation. The Bill of Right, religious liberty, the Second Amendment will be put in profound jeopardy. Our kids will be trapped in debt and stagnation and misery.
That's what this election is about. I think Donald Trump gift wraps that to Hillary. And so, the answer, if you agree with me, and, you know, 70 percent of republican's donation wide, you know, what Scott said a minute ago is exactly right.
You can't be against something, you can't just be anti-Trump. The only way to beat Trump is with a strong, positive campaign. That's why we're bringing together and unifying republicans who say, we got to win. We can't forfeit this election.
KELLY: OK.
(APPLAUSE)
I'll give it to you. If Donald Trump becomes the nominee, will you support him?
WALKER: It's a lot easier to support the nominee of our party when it's Ted Cruz.
KELLY: You're dodging, too. Look the vote outside of the ring. Why won't you say it? Why is it so hard for you to just say, no I won't or yes I will.
(APPLAUSE)
WALKER: Well, why would be campaigning for Ted if we're worried about who else might be in the race?
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Well, because that's the fundamental question right now in the Republican Party which is so divided between Trump supporters who are so fervently behind him and some in the rest of the field who are against.
WALKER: Well, I think -- I think there's a lot of Trump supporters and a little fewer and fewer here in Wisconsin, who are frustrated with Washington, who are upset with the status quo. I get that. I feel that. I understand their concern. But that's part of the reason why I came out forcefully last week and said I'm with Ted Cruz.
Because in the state where we've taken on the big government special interest against unbelievable pressure, we understand, we appreciate someone who sticks to their gun, who doesn't just talk about it, who's actually done it.
(APPLAUSE)
The only person in the race that's done it is Ted Cruz.
KELLY: We are in Wisconsin so we will let the Wisconsin governor have the last word tonight. Thank you both so much.
CRUZ: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: We'll be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: And don't forget to tune in to "The Kelly File" for an early start tomorrow, 8.50 p.m. Eastern Time. We'll be in the air to pool schools right here in Wisconsin and the results come in. Thank you, Madison! Thank you, viewers. I'm Megyn Kelly. Thanks for watching.
(APPLAUSE)
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