Updated

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," May 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, we have a YOUR WORLD pop quiz for you.

Do any of you, any of you at all, remember inflation? Well, get ready. It is back.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is YOUR WORLD.

And what in the world is going on with prices? They are moving up, up and up. And now a lot of people are beginning to say, yeah, I see it too. It used to be just at the gas pump and I saw I was paying a little bit more every time I filled up. I was seeing it and some other costs, but not that many costs.

But now take a look at what's going on. We see price hikes across the board, seafood and eggs and oranges and lettuce. And I could go on and on to talk about things like, well, gasoline and appliances, chicken and, well, you name it, still more vegetables. The latter part with vegetables, that can still happen. It's a nonevent, but I'm sure, for the healthy among you, it's a big event to you.

This got to be such a big event today that no less than Janet Yellen, the Treasury secretary of the United States, was hinting at the possibility that interest rates might have to go up to deal with this, the mirror opposite the Federal Reserve Chairman was saying just last week.

So, is there a bit of a tempest in the teapot on all of this?

I'm going to go to first Edward Lawrence, who's been chronicling this as, well, the neighborhood grocery store.

Hey, Edward.

EDWARD LAWRENCE, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

Yes, you have noticed then the prices going up. Again, you could see it at the pump, pretty steadily there at the pump. But in the grocery store, it's starting to go up a little by little by little.

For example, I bought this loaf of bread at the grocery store. It cost me 30 cents more today than it did a year ago. Doesn't sound like a lot. But when you start compounding that and everything you buy is a little bit more, then that gets -- adds up a little bit.

Now, the data is showing that 3.5 percent year-over-year increase in the stuff we buy, in average, on average, in the grocery store, is more expensive. Now, within that, some very interesting things. Take a look at this, cereal and bakery products, 2.6 percent more from last year to this year, meat, poultry, fish eggs, 5.4 percent increase in prices, dairy, 1.6 percent, fruits and vegetables 3.8 percent, non-alcoholic beverages 3.2 percent.

Now it is not an increase enough to affect the shoppers that I talk with. But that's only because they are being smart in the way they shop.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, for example, if one week they have buy one, get one free bread, then I will do the two bread.

And then, the next week, they may have buy one get one free bagels. So, one week, I'm probably have sandwiches. The next week, I'm probably having bagels and coffee or something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: And she tells me that she knows the increases overall are going to eventually affect her budget.

Now, the Federal Reserve believes that inflation will spike this year. It'll go up and then come back down. I have talked to a number of economists who believe that, once you get that inflation up, it's very hard to get back down on its own -- back to you, Neil.

CAVUTO: Edward Lawrence, thank you very, very much.

Edward, you're a man of many talents, going to the grocery store and fielding questions of the Federal Reserve. You do it all.

All right, do does Susan Li. She was monitoring the crazy market reaction to all of this today, because that's been the bane of the markets' existence, this fear of that inflation could take hold. So many traders, and, by the way, anchors like yourself, Susan, don't even remember what that was like in this country.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Because it's been that long, but now it's beginning to fester. And that could change things, right?

SUSAN LI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

But it was also highly unusual, don't you think, Neil, for the Treasury secretary to be talking about interest rate policy?

CAVUTO: Absolutely. Out of the blue.

LI: Yes, but Janet Yellen said that -- she said rates would go up if the White House spent trillions of dollars more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: It may be that interest rates will have to rise somewhat to make sure that our economy doesn't overheat, even though the additional spending is relatively small relative to the size of the economy.

So it could cause some very modest increases in interest rates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LI: Yes, so Yellen's comments really goes against the efforts by the Federal Reserve chairman, Jay Powell, who has been trying to talk down interest rate expectations.

And he just told "60 Minutes" less than a month ago that interest rates were highly unlikely to go up this year. So, Wall Street was a bit confused. And you saw the selling accelerates after Yellen's comments.

We saw the worst day for the Nasdaq since March, worst day for the S&P and the Dow in just about a week's time or so. Now, investors were busy ditching the large technology companies like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, and Google, stocks have really dominated over the past year.

And, meantime, you did see it, though. Prices are going up for energy, for instance, highest that we have seen in seven weeks for oil, which means Americans are paying $2.91 now at the pump for a gallon. And the higher jet fuel costs also hurts airlines, which all tumbled today on the back of higher oil prices.

Now, while money was coming out of stock markets, Neil, average Joes, even the pros, they're going crazy over cryptocurrency, not just Bitcoin. Take a look at Ether, which is the second largest cryptocurrency in the world, hitting a record high.

And so did -- Elon Musk promoted Dogecoin. Dogecoin started off as a joke back in 2012, up more than 11000 percent this year. So, yes, Neil, prices are going up.

CAVUTO: Yes, and the question is, how much are they going up?

Susan Li, great job reviewing that.

Now, I know a lot of you are looking at this and saying, oh, my gosh, you're losing your head. How bad does this all get? I have to remind you that this is still relatively contained. And for those of you who are getting a little nervous about a 3 percent something mortgage, did I ever tell you the time my wife and I got our first mortgage and it was over 13 percent?

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: My point is, my point is that it has been a lot higher and a lot worse.

But, again, it's the trend that has some folks worried on Wall Street, and that could eat into earnings and real gains that we have been seeing and be competition for stocks as well.

After all, if you can buy a Treasury bond or note from Uncle Sam fully guaranteed, why would you risk it in the market? That's, again, one of the fears, even though those rates are still very, very low.

Let's get the read from Danielle DiMartino Booth, a former Dallas Fed adviser, I might point out, and our own Scott Martin wasn't even alive when we had the last inflation spiral.

So, Scott, that makes you a perfect guy to talk about what's happening right now. I think there's a generation of people who don't remember this, but are freaking out about it, because they have heard people talk about when it was much higher. They just know that it's higher than what they're used to. What do you tell them?

SCOTT MARTIN, FOX BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR: I agree.

And I think the pace of the higherness, let's say, Neil, is really what's scaring folks, because you're right. We have been facing this inflation bugaboo now for, say, three decades, since the '70s at least.

And so if you look at the pace at which, though, inflation is starting to increase, and now we're getting that pickup in economic growth -- obviously, we have a lot of government spending behind that as well -- you're starting to see some of the inflation numbers catch up.

And you make a good point. Even though inflation may double from here, let's say, and get up say, oh, my gosh, close to 4 percent, that's nothing like we have seen in past decades. But it still is going to feel like a lot different of an environment than we have had in the last several years, where basically we were growing for free, without inflation and without much wage growth either.

CAVUTO: And we're spending like crazy.

Danielle, you know these figures far better than I, but I was reading that, for the next couple of quarters, it looks like we're going to be borrowing upwards of at least $1.25 trillion to support the spending already committed. Forget about the trillions more the president is planning on.

So, that generally means still higher rates. What do you think?

DANIELLE DIMARTINO BOOTH, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE ADVISER: Neil, if you're asking me, sorry. I thought you were addressing Edward.

If you're asking me, I think that that's one of the reasons that Janet Yellen stepped into her old self, as former head of the Federal Reserve today, and mentioned the specter of rising interest rates, which is, by the way, not under her purview.

That is strictly Jay Powell's world. But if she's advocating...

CAVUTO: Why did she do that? Danielle, why did she do that?

Now, she's a former Federal Reserve chairman. I get that. But she was stomping on someone else's turf. And I wonder if that was by design, or what did you read into that?

DIMARTINO BOOTH: There is -- look, Neil, there is no way in the world that she did not understand the weight and the magnitude of what she was saying.

In theory, the Federal Reserve official leaders should not talk about the U.S. dollar. That is the place of the U.S. Treasury secretary. Vice versa, the U.S. Treasury secretary is not supposed to be talking about interest rate policy, which is supposed to be set by an independent, apolitical, unelected group of individuals.

Jay Powell has spent the last part -- the better part of the last week insisting that they're not even thinking about thinking about slowing the growth of the Federal Reserve's balance sheet, which, by the way, is step one before they can even contemplate raising interest rates.

And she just beat him well over the finish line and slaughtered all of the messaging that he has carefully crafted for the past weeks and months. So, this was very unusual, and, I would add, highly inappropriate.

CAVUTO: You know, Scott, if you think about it, the backdrop for this is all good news, companies earning money hand over fist. They're doing much better than thought. The technology companies, the very ones getting beaten down yesterday and today, are the ones that are reporting these off-the- chart numbers, retail sales soaring, car sales doing very, very well, consumer confidence the highest in years.

So, that's the backdrop. I guess the balance to that backdrop is, people fear rates go still higher, and it could be a short-lived good market environment. What do you think?

MARTIN: Well, rates are going to go higher. And I think, at some point, we want to see that interest rate curve normalize.

And, two, Neil, inflation isn't a bad thing, as long as it's not out of control. And we will actually see that show up in stock prices if these companies have pricing power, which they're starting to get.

So, as long as this pace doesn't go out of control, some normalization of the interest rate curve, some normalization of interest -- of inflation rates, rather, should be good for this market, and it should be able to tolerate it.

CAVUTO: All right, final word on that.

I wish I could have more time with you guys to regale you on when my wife and I got our first mortgage in the '80s.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: And -- oh, you have heard that 100 to 200 times?

DIMARTINO BOOTH: You have never said that one before, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, guy -- yeah, right, right, right. All right, thank you, guys, very, very much on that.

And I do want to put in perspective here that this is all still pretty low -- low-hanging inflation for the time being, but it starts somewhere and it goes somewhere. What the markets were digesting today is, they don't know where all this is going.

And we don't know where taxes are going. Remember when there was a big kerfuffle about a top capital gains rate of 43.4 percent? Well, now a figure to beat, that 61 percent. For some looking at inherited wealth, you're going to pay through the nose.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: The question is whether or not a 61 percent tax bill is reasonable. Does the White House believe that's reasonable?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'd have to talk to our number crunchers about the specific example you gave.

I don't know what percentage of people have $100 million in capital gains. Maybe you know. That sounds like quite a lot to me.

But the fundamental value here the president is conveying is that his proposals are about and making a historic investment in education, in childcare. That's going to make us more competitive to compete with China, to bring more women back into the work force.

He's proposed a way to pay for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, and that way to pay for it might be, for some of the wealthiest families, their heirs to pay a rate north of 61 percent.

It comes little more than a week that we learned that the top capital gains rate could balloon to 43.4 percent. So, the advertised rates you often hear are done in by higher rates that are pretty much in the ready.

The read on all of this from Scott Hodge, The Tax Foundation. He's the president there. They were the ones who crunched these numbers and came up with these numbers.

And, Scott, to hear the White House spokesman put it, this is really for the ultra-rich, essentially, so no need to worry. You say?

SCOTT HODGE, PRESIDENT, TAX FOUNDATION: Well, no. She said, oh, I don't know how many people that would affect.

Oh, quite a few, actually. What we're talking about is really our privately owned car dealerships, our small hotel chains, restaurant chains, a successful manufacturer of PPEs, for instance, who built up a business over a lifetime, and then their estate gets hit twice under the Biden plan.

Of course, it gets hit by capital gains. Say, if you have a $100 million business that you have you have left, and you have built it up from zero, so it's $100 million with a capital gains, they want to hit you with that 43.4 percent tax right off the bat.

And then there's the estate tax, which is a tax rate of 40 percent. And so, once you have done the math and taken account of the exemptions, you're down to a tax rate, an effective tax rate of over 61 percent.

And so now your heirs are left with just a small fraction of that successful fortune that you put together over a lifetime.

CAVUTO: All right, now, you know their argument will be it affects the view, it won't spill over to the many. They understand maybe the business argument you make and those that will go ahead and apply under the individual rate.

But we are seeing a pattern here to a lot of these numbers that are not as advertised, in other words, provisions that could easily send -- for those who pay the top rate, and depending on the state in which they live, well over 50, 55, in some cases close to 60 percent.

So, the trend is up. The question is how far up, because, even with all these record tax increases the president plans, they don't come close to paying for all the money he wants to spend. So, they either go up still more on the wealthy, or we expand the pool of those who will pay taxes.

What do you think?

HODGE: Well, he talks about trying to make sure that he's protecting people who earn under $400,000 a year.

Well, that's not so easy. You can direct where the tax bill is paid, but you can't protect or insulate the rest of the economy and regular folk from the economic harm of those decisions. We estimate that those provisions alone would raise about $215 billion over the next decade.

And, overall, the tax increases that he's proposing would have serious harm to the economy and overwhelming any of the economic benefits that might come from some of those other transfer payments or any of the infrastructure that he's talking about.

And so what you have got is a smaller economy, fewer jobs, less investment, and yet a whole bunch of government spending that doesn't make up for the harm that is done by the taxes.

CAVUTO: You know, he's very popular on these initiatives, though. Most Americans support him on this, maybe because most Americans think they won't be paying for any of this.

You think that's misguided. Why?

HODGE: Well, I do.

I think, number one, there's not enough wealth at the top in order to pay for everything they're talking about. But he is handing out a lot of goodies. Look, we estimate that, because of the expansion of the child tax credit, that some 58 million Americans will pay zero income taxes this year.

And many will get an actual refund even if they pay nothing because of the generosity of these credits. And so there's a lot of goodies being handed out here that are kind of blindfolding people to the possible economic harm of the tax increases on both corporations and the rich.

Now what we're going to have is a small -- smaller economy that's less competitive globally, because he's trying to pay for his infrastructure and spending programs with the most harmful taxes possible. Those are tax increases on corporations and successful individuals.

These are really success taxes that he's trying to fund his programs with.

CAVUTO: But, even for all their records and eye-popping amounts, they don't come close to paying for all of this. So we will have to watch it.

HODGE: Not at all.

CAVUTO: Scott Hodge, the Tax Foundation president, thank you very, very much for that.

Some good news that I want to relay, certainly on the vaccine front, that we're churning them out fast and furiously right now, so much so, the president's optimistic that, by July 4, 70 percent of Americans will have been vaccinated.

That's very doable. Some of the fallout from that might not be expected -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Well, all of a sudden, one of the world's richest couples is breaking up. And a lot of people want to know, will this sound anything like what happened with Jeff Bezos and MacKenzie Bezos?

Not even close -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, the supply of vaccines is increasing at a rapid rate, so rapid, the president is very optimistic that, by July 4, fully seven out of 10 Americans will have been vaccinated.

Kristin Fisher at the White House with more on that.

Hey, Kristin.

KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

President Biden announcing today that the country's vaccination program is entering a new phase. First, there was too little supply. Now he says there's almost too little demand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have enough vaccines. Now that we have the vaccine supply, we are focused on convincing even more Americans to show up and get the vaccine that is available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: So, President Biden has a new goal. He wants 70 percent of American adults at least partially vaccinated by July 4.

And to do that, he's focusing on making it easier to get vaccinated by winding down those large mass vaccination sites in favor of smaller, more convenient locations, and by directing all federal pharmacy partners to begin providing walk-in hours, so that you no longer need an appointment.

The president's also trying to make it more fun to get vaccinated by bribing those reluctant with discounts at grocery stores for shoppers to get vaccinated on site and by teaming up with major sports leagues to provide special promotions for fans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Things like ticket giveaways, in-stadium vaccination programs, discounts on merchandise, and other creative ways to make it easier and more fun to get vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: Now, another big change announced today, a shift in the way that vaccines are allocated and distributed among the states.

Governors will now be able to turn down doses that they no longer want or need. And those leftover doses will then be put in a federal pool and redistributed among the states that need them most. So, Neil, that's really just one more sign that the U.S. is entering this new phase, as more and more Americans continue to get vaccinated -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you very much for that, Kristin Fisher, at the White House.

So, it might not matter whether we ever reach that herd immunity you hear so much talk about.

Admiral Brett Giroir joins us right now, the former HHS assistant secretary.

Secretary, it seems like we're well on our way to having at least seven out of 10 Americans adequately vaccinated. Herd immunity then becomes a moot point, doesn't it?

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Well, we are well on our way.

And this is exactly what we predicted back in September, October, November, that, by mid-June, everyone who wants a vaccine could get a vaccine. We set up 70,000 sites, including 40,000 pharmacies. This is what it looks like.

And let me emphasize that 70 percent is not a magic number. But what we're seeing right now in 39 out of 50 states is the R -- not to get geeky -- but the R is less than one, means -- meaning that cases are continuing to decline, even in places like Texas, that are fully open with 100 percent occupancy, with everybody going around their daily business.

So, we are -- really, that light is almost at -- we're at the end of the tunnel right now. We're seeing it, and, again, very achievable by July 4 to get that percentage of 70 percent done.

CAVUTO: Then there are cases, as you know Admiral, in India, where they just can't get out of their own way handling this. It's gone from bad to worse. It's affected a number of other developing countries, including Laos and Nepal and Thailand.

Any fear that any of that could get here?

GIROIR: Well, we have to be cognizant of that. But our vaccines will protect against all of those strains.

So the best thing we can do is become fully vaccinated as a country. And then we are going to be immune from what's going on there. The one danger is that, given the extreme spread, like in India, the numbers of people, the sheer volumes, that we could pop a strain that would be difficult for the vaccines to overcome.

So, right now, I think we need to support everyone. It is a catastrophe in India and many countries. But, right now, if we vaccinate ourselves, take care of our own business, we're going to be absolutely fine.

CAVUTO: Can we do without the masks now, Admiral? How would you advise people?

GIROIR: So, what do I advise people?

Let me tell you what I do. If you're fully vaccinated, and you're around other people that are vaccinated, whether that's in a party or a cruise ship, you don't need to wear a mask. You just really don't. The chances are so low of you having it, of you transmitting it, of you giving it to someone, that you really don't need that.

We didn't need to wear masks outside anyway. It was a big non-moment last week when the CDC said, if you're vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask outside. We didn't need to do that the entire time. I still do wear a mask when I'm in close public places, because not everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

There are people at risk. And even though I'm fully vaccinated, I still have a small percent chance of harboring virus and potentially giving it. So I do wear a mask and comply with all regulations.

But, look, where the president is talking us about being in July 4, most of the country is there already. Texas, Florida, we're open. The economy's booming. Nationally, we're only 14 percent down in mobility from pre-COVID. So we are almost back to normal, except for those few states that are still reluctant to do the normal things like open businesses and get kids back to school.

CAVUTO: Well, increasingly, states are moving rapidly. Look at New York, where it seems to be almost instantaneous, out of the blue.

Admiral, thank you very much. Very good seeing you again. We appreciate your input.

GIROIR: Of course. Thank you.

CAVUTO: All right.

In the meantime, a pop quiz for you too. We started with one at the beginning of the hour. What do Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida and Kristi Noem have in common? Well, they have been very aggressive keeping their states largely open and expanding that in the middle of this whole pandemic, but they share something else as well.

We will tell you all about it -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, welcome, everybody.

There's been a bit of a kerfuffle in the media about what House Leader Kevin McCarthy had to say when he thought he was all fair on a hot mic when discussing the state of affairs right now with Liz Cheney in the House leadership on "FOX & Friends" this morning.

I'm far more focused right now on what he said on air, realizing he was very much on air, when talking to "FOX & Friends," saying that he's heard from members concerning Liz Cheney, concerned about her ability to carry out the job, as a conference chair, to carry out the message.

He said: "We all need to be working as one." And he made it clear, if we're -- if we're able to win the majority, remember, majorities are not a given, he said. They are earned. And that's about the message about going forward.

So, clearly, very little appetite among those Republicans in power for Liz Cheney, who has constantly gone back at Donald Trump and the big lie, as she called it, addressing it earlier this week at a conference.

And it has separated the party between those who want to move on from Donald Trump and those who have long memories regarding the treatment of Donald Trump.

I want to explore that in more detail with Amanda Makki, the Republican strategist, Michael Starr Hopkins, Democratic strategist. We have also Tiana Lowe with us of The Washington Examiner.

So, Tiana, I end it with you. Let me begin with you and the reaction a good deal two off mic comments attributed to Kevin McCarthy, which are blistering, but it's what he has said publicly even on air, when he thought he was on air, on "FOX & Friends" that are almost as damning, that she might not be welcome in leadership.

What do you make of that?

TIANA LOWE, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: So it's not very promising for Liz Cheney, considering that McCarthy did have her back to an extent during that first initiative to try and oust her from House leadership.

That being said, this is a really political dicey situation for Republicans, because, if they punish Liz Cheney more for saying the truth, that the election was not stolen from Donald Trump, than they punished Marjorie Taylor Greene for spreading QAnon insanity and saying previously anti-Semitic remarks, that's not a great calculus.

That being said, having leadership that is not united is not great for anyone in the GOP.

CAVUTO: Well, Amanda, GOP strategist, why is it OK then for Donald Trump to attack Liz Cheney and others, but if they dare respond in kind, they're dead meat? That doesn't jibe.

AMANDA MAKKI, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think it just shows you who the leader of the party is.

They're following, like Kevin McCarthy is, Donald Trump's lead on this. And, certainly, President Trump has made no bones about it who he is going to primary and who is going to be personally involved with in their races.

And Liz Cheney is someone who has fought back against President Trump. And he -- she has said all along that what happened on the 6th, the insurrection, was his fault, and she has never backed off from that.

And I think that has caused the situation to escalate. And Kevin McCarthy, kind of being backed in a corner right now, is doing what he thinks he has to do, which is follow Trump's lead.

CAVUTO: But it's gotten to be more prominent this week.

And I know, Michael Starr Hopkins, Democrats love this sort of thing, there's division among the party, just as Republicans would if they saw the same in yours. But we have seen Mitt Romney booed at a Utah party event. We have seen Senator Collins criticized for criticizing those who booed him, and on and on we go.

I'm just wondering what you make of this and how far Democrats go to try to capitalize on this.

MICHAEL STARR HOPKINS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know, at the end of the day, I got to say Democrats aren't happy about this, because when there's a strong Republican Party, it makes Democrats better. We need a strong Republican Party to be able to combat ideas and have a back-and-forth.

And we have a Republican Party that's in a cultish...

CAVUTO: You have got to be kidding. You have got to be kidding me. You have got to be kidding me.

HOPKINS: No, absolutely. Absolutely.

CAVUTO: You don't want a strong Republican Party.

I mean, the fact of the matter is, they're not strong in the face of this, and they're unable to put any input on any of the spending going on. There's no cooperation on infrastructure. There was very little on any of these other efforts the president has orchestrated.

So, strong or not, it's just not happening.

HOPKINS: We can disagree on policy. That's what makes this country great, is that we have a Republican Party and a Democratic Party, and we come together and debate.

CAVUTO: Right.

HOPKINS: But when you have a party right now that's going through a cultish phase, one that isn't acknowledging facts, the same facts that people on January 6, Republicans like Lindsey Graham, got on the floor of the Senate and talked about how horrible it was that we had people like Donald Trump putting together this big lie, and now we have people like Lindsey Graham doing fund-raisers with him, Kevin McCarthy, going down to Mar-a-Lago and meeting with him.

That's a problem. And that's insidious. And it's rotting the party.

CAVUTO: But what's more cultish -- what's more cultish and obnoxious, Michael? That one could argue the progressive influence over your party has certainly...

HOPKINS: Oh, come on.

CAVUTO: ... been cultish in terms of ignoring basic math, right, and how things add up?

HOPKINS: No. There's no comparison.

CAVUTO: I'm not comparing or conflating the two.

HOPKINS: Yes.

CAVUTO: I am saying that what -- do you not believe that Democrats have their own problem with progressives that are calling the tune and costing trillions?

HOPKINS: No, I don't think we have a problem within the party. I think we have a debate. That's a healthy debate, which we need to have inside the party, the same debate that's not occurring within the Republican Party.

And I think Republicans are worse off for it, because, rather than having actual philosophical debates, this is more of an ideological/cultish mentality, that it's hurting the party. And by hurting the party, it's hurting our democracy, and it hurts the voters.

We're seeing it all over the country in places like Florida...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Yes. Well, there are two sides to this.

And whether it's cultish on one end -- no, no, you're right -- and there are two sides to whether Republicans, it's cultish on one end being loyal to Donald Trump, and another part of the party saying, well, cool it with the Donald Trump fixation.

But, Tiana, I'd be curious about where you see it all going, because you could look at the rising fortunes of Ron DeSantis or a Kristi Noem in Florida and South Dakota respectively, that they are rising figures in the party precisely because of their handling of the pandemic, and might be credible candidates whether or not Donald Trump decides to run.

What do you think?

LOWE: Yes, I mean, I think that, if the Republican Party wants to win elections in the future, Ron DeSantis really should be one of those leaders. He really shouldn't be the future of the party.

Donald Trump's legacy could have been adding -- making major gains with Hispanics, that he did improve vastly over the past GOP. Ron DeSantis outperformed Donald Trump among Hispanics. This is a viable, working coalition that can bring in some of the populist base, bring in some of the good of Trumpism, while expunging the bad.

Ron DeSantis, he will have discipline. He will not just bring a knife to gunfights, like Donald Trump used to.

CAVUTO: So, I just wonder what the future, then, is of the party, Amanda, in that event.

And you had those who are very, very loyal to Donald Trump and would do anything and everything for him and those who are not. And I wonder whether this, to Michael's point, gets to be such a divisive issue that the party will be grabbing defeat from the jaws of otherwise victory.

What do you think?

MAKKI: Well, I do think there is a divide in the party. There are a lot of people who would support someone like Governor Ron DeSantis.

There are also a lot of people that still support Donald Trump and believe he is the leader of the party. Look at the CPAC poll, just as an example. President Trump won that. And so I think people look at him still as the de facto leader, with very little media coverage. He has no social platforms anymore. He's still out there quite a bit, and he is still revered.

He's still a kingmaker. And so I think those things are all very important factors. But who is a distant second? Ron DeSantis. And if you look at what Governor DeSantis has done in the state of Florida, really betting on Floridians to make the best decisions for themselves, taking away that mask mandate yesterday was hugely important for businesses here and for all Floridians.

I think this is really important, what he's done and the steps he's taken.

CAVUTO: All right, guys, I want to thank you all.

So, bottom line here, you don't really have to focus on what someone is saying off mic to hear very clearly what he was saying on mic, when he thought he was on air, that he has problems with Liz Cheney. And now Liz Cheney presumably has problems with the powers that be in the Republican Party.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Your friend Warren Buffett has said that their goal is essentially to die broke, that they want to give it all away.

And I'm wondering, with your three children, have you told them that's your goal, too, and that, if they're looking at a huge inheritance, it ain't coming?

BILL GATES, CO-CHAIR, BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: Well, we have certainly talked to the kids about the fact that the vast majority of the wealth is going to the foundation.

Our foundation is set up so, after the last -- Melinda and I are gone, our foundation will spend its money within 20 years. And our kids are excited about the foundation work. They will get a great college education and some support.

So they're very, very lucky. But I think...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But they're set for life. I don't think -- do any of them have to worry that I'm going to have to work at a 7-Eleven here?

GATES: Absolutely. No, not at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, now, that was from Bill Gates back all of eight years ago, do you believe that, when he was the world's second richest man.

Of course, for year after year after year, he was the world's richest man, now the fourth richest. But he and his wife, Melinda Gates, are splitting up after 27 years, dividing an empire that, between them, under Washington state law, I guess, where they're technically domiciled, would have to be split 50/50.

Mercedes Colwin, FOX News legal eagle, expert all things law.

How do you think that goes, Mercedes? What are the requirements in Washington state as far as separating property after you separate?

MERCEDES COLWIN, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Couple goes down the tubes.

How awful was this news, Neil? This came completely out of the blue. And you're exactly right. It is a community property state. Usually, there's really no math, there's no formula. It says 50/50 down the middle.

But, here, the Gateses did something a little differently. They have a private agreement. They have a separation agreement. They are dividing the assets in the property pursuant to the agreement. In the formal filing, they actually refer to the agreement. They have now filed the agreement.

And so there's all this buzz whether there was prenup, postnup. We don't know. What we do know from the public filing that has been made available is that they do have the separation agreement, and all of the property will be divided pursuant to that agreement.

The agreement has not been filed.

CAVUTO: Now, the difference with Jeff Bezos when he and his wife, MacKenzie, split up, it's that she took the money and left. She didn't want any role...

COLWIN: Right.

CAVUTO: ... or voting role in the stock that she was given.

So, it was split up that way. It seemed to be very amicable in the end. We do know that, in the case of the Gateses, that they share this passion for the Gates Foundation, which has helped people the world over.

COLWIN: Yes.

CAVUTO: Started with $17 billion, now north of $50 billion, that has drawn the attention and the money of Warren Buffett, among others.

So, I imagine it's in both their interests to both stay involved in that, right?

COLWIN: And they are.

I mean, to their credit, they are both going to continue on the board. It is a passion. These are two absolutely brilliant individuals that have this enormous compassion and passion for this foundation and all the great work that they do globally.

So they are continuing to do it, which I think is -- which is wonderful for the foundation to have these two individuals continue in the foundation. And it does -- and you're right about -- there is -- seems to be a very amicable split. Doesn't seem that there's any sort of animosity.

We have not heard at all that there's a third party involved. In fact, we do know that Bill Gates had mentioned -- had stepped out of the board for Microsoft back in March of 2020, saying that he was going to focus on his family. So, perhaps that was the -- just the work/life balance was continuing to be a challenge for him.

So, he stepped away from the board and continued to focus on family. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, and here we are.

But, to their credit here, they're going to work together to the foundation. And we will just have to see where it goes. But it certainly seems that it's -- there's a bright future with the two of them at the helm.

CAVUTO: Yes, they have made that just a model for all philanthropy across the globe. So, I think their interests go well beyond themselves. And they seem to have indicated that. So I hope it all works out.

Mercedes Colwin, thank you so much. Very good seeing you again.

COLWIN: Great to see you, Neil. Always a pleasure.

CAVUTO: All right, same here, Mercedes.

Did you hear the one about the Chinese rocket that detached a little too early and is going to come crashing down to Earth, and no one knows where the hell it's going to land?

Well, it's true -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, do any of you remember when Skylab came crashing and burning down to Earth? It was in the late 1970s.

It ultimately landed somewhere in the middle of Australia. It didn't hurt anyone. But the fear was that it might, because they couldn't tell where the heck it would land. Fast-forward to today, where a Chinese rocket that detached from a space station could make an uncontrollable reentry somewhere on Earth.

Clayton Anderson joins us right now, the former NASA astronaut.

I guess there's no way to tell where this thing will land. But it's pretty big, right, Clayton?

CLAYTON ANDERSON, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Yes, I understand it's pretty big.

It was part of their first stage of the rocket that took their base block module for their new space station. So, unfortunately, it made it into orbit, which, in America, we typically design the trajectories to not allow those big pieces to get to orbit, so they can drop safely in the Pacific Ocean somewhere.

So who knows where this one's going to hit?

CAVUTO: Yes.

Another thing, Clayton, I heard, they're going to have a couple of more launches, the Chinese, with similar type setups. So we will have maybe a couple of these down the road that will do this, because the Chinese are not saying this is a problem at all.

And some have said it's very akin to the way we did things in the early days of the space program. I have no idea. But are you worried that this could be intact or do a lot of damage, giving its sheer size, especially if it were to fall on land?

ANDERSON: Well, obviously, there's a greater than zero chance that it might hit somewhere on Earth where it could do some damage.

But I talked to the folks in Mission Control earlier today. And they assured me that there's no concern for this item at this time. The issue with these things is that, depending on how big they are, and whether they're tumbling or not, that creates uncertainty in the ability to track their trajectories.

But we have a lot of folks around the world that track that sort of thing. So it looks like it's not going to be an issue to anyone, and hopefully it'll fall safely and quietly somewhere where nobody cares.

CAVUTO: Is it substantially bigger than Skylab was, Clayton? Do you know?

ANDERSON: I -- that, I do not know, Neil.

I know that the rocket that they shot to get their base block up there was pretty good size. And I read on the Internet some of the -- it's like 23,000 pounds or something. And I don't remember what Skylab was.

But the good thing is, when this thing starts to come through the atmosphere, pieces will burn up, hopefully start to disintegrate. So that makes it a little better, in that it becomes smaller, but then you have more pieces that you have to worry about tracking.

But, typically, those things create a footprint that -- where the first piece will hit here. And if it's breaking up, the last piece will hit within that foot. And that's the piece -- the foot -- is what we have to worry about.

CAVUTO: So, the closest we have ever come to something like this that was not manmade was a meteorite that fell in Russia, right?

I mean, and that's the closest experience we'd had to something like that in modern time, right?

ANDERSON: Yes.

And that meteor over Russia, that did burn up in the atmosphere and it created -- exploded, basically, and created a big pressure wave. And that pressure wave did some damage. I don't think -- when this one explodes, I think it'll be high enough up that there won't be any issue from a pressure wave. It may just be the pieces that fall to the ground.

But I don't think that it's going to be an issue. The Earth is a pretty big place.

CAVUTO: Yes, you might be right. But I have such lousy luck, Clayton.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: I'm going to keep looking up, you know, because I have no idea.

Clayton Anderson, former NASA astronaut, thanks for all you have done for this country and inspiring us, and calming us down right now. We needed -- we needed to hear that.

But just in case, by the way, for all of you at home, just keep looking up.

Here's "THE FIVE."

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