'Special Report' on All-Star Panel on debate over congressional spending package

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Ben Domenech reveals opportunity Pelosi may have missed over spending bill debate

'Special Report' All-Star panel analyzes the debate over the congressional spending package

This is a rush transcript of "Special Report" on September 30, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA) HOUSE SPEAKER:  Doubt in anyone's mind that we will not have a reconciliation. We will have a reconciliation bill. That is for sure.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, ENERGY SECRETARY:  It is not some major cataclysm if there isn't a vote today.

Mark my words, the infrastructure bill will be passed, and a version of the reconciliation bill will be as well.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL, (D-WA) HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE:  We will not be able to vote for the infrastructure bill until the reconciliation bill has passed. So we're in the same place.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D-WV):  It's a shame for that, because no two bills should ever be linked together to the point that we're going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER:  Senator Joe Manchin there. At this hour we are told that the House will not have any votes before 9:00 p.m. We don't know the status of whether the infrastructure bill is coming up, whether there's a deal on the reconciliation bill.

We do know this -- Joe Manchin laid down a marker today, and "The Washington Post" took note, saying "Joe Manchin delivers a dagger to the heart of the progressive cause. They can huff and puff all they want, but they won't blow down the West Virginia Democrat's House because he correctly read public opinion. Reengineering the fabric of American life is modern progressivism's whole point. Its adherents believe that the nation is in crisis. Crises demand immediately and wide-ranging action, not incremental change or tinkering around the edges. Their ambitions, however, can only prevail in a democracy if they are supported by public opinion."

That's where we are at this hour. Let's bring in our panel, Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist," Mara Liasson, national political correspondent of National Public Radio, and Trey Gowdy, former Congressman from South Carolina. Mara, we don't know where this is going. We do know that it's going to be less than $3.5 trillion in the reconciliation bill, if it happens.

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: 
Yes, it's definitely going to be less. I think we've known that for quite some time. But we just didn't know the actual parameters of the negotiation. And I think the big progress that was made today is that Joe Manchin said in public before a camera what he's been saying in private and actually on paper in this memo that he and Chuck Schumer signed, that his number, top line number is $1.5 trillion. He has some other substantive demands. He wants new entitled programs, social safety net programs to be means tested. He wants to roll back the Trump tax cuts, including carried interest. So he has a whole lot of things that he cares about.

Now, he did not say that this was a hard and fast number and he wasn't flexible at all. He said, we're going to negotiate. So, somewhere between
$3.5 trillion and $1.5 trillion is where they'll end up if they can get a deal among themselves.

BAIER:  And that's a big if, Trey, listening to progressives saying, listen, we're going to vote against this, the infrastructure, bipartisan infrastructure bill, if we don't have a deal, a vote on reconciliation.

TREY GOWDY, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA REPRESENTATIVE:  Yes, Bret. I give credit to the progressives in the House. They watched very carefully as the Freedom Caucus on the Republican side proved that you can get a lot more famous opposing your own leadership than you can fighting with the other side. And fame has become the ultimate political virtue.

I will say this. Jen Psaki used the word "democracy." "The Washington Post"
used the world "democracy." Let's lay aside the fact that they tried to ram it through with a parliamentarian and put everything in one bill. Let's give them credit for liking democracy.

Bret, you and I won the same number of counties in West Virginia that Joe Biden did. And Arizona was less than one half of a percentage point. So don't be lecturing Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema about democracy.

BAIER:  Speaking of Jen Psaki, she was asked about the White House potentially losing control of this whole deal today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  This is how democracy works. I know it feels foreign because there wasn't much that happened over the last couple of years. But how it works is the American people elect their elected officials. The president of the United States puts forward a bold and ambitious proposal, and everybody negotiates about it. And they have different points of view. That's how democracy should work. We're in the midst of it right now. We're not trying to paint over how messy it looks from the outside. We know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER:  Ben?

BEN DOMENECH, PUBLISHER, "THE FEDERALIST":  Well, we're not actually a democracy, just to point that out for a point of clarification. If we were, then we would be fine with majorities running pell-mell toward all of these types of extreme steps, even if they were slimmest of majorities. There's an important reason, and the founders really believed in it, that we are not that way, and our government does not work that way.

And that's why Joe Manchin is so important in this moment. Look, he reads the politics very well. Not just in his own state, but in, I think, the broader dynamic. And I think in this moment there ought to be a lot of critiques of the approach that Nancy Pelosi used, because at the end of the day, she may have missed an opportunity to achieve a package that could be much more perhaps than what Manchin's number would be, but far less than what progressives are currently demanding. Taking the step that she did in terms of linking these measures together in the way that I think was politically unwise is coming back to bite her in a big way today.

BAIER:  We always knew that Senator Manchin was going to be crucial in this whole thing. We've talked to him here on this show many times and asked him specific questions. Today, Mara, you're right. With the $1.5 trillion top line that he talked about, take a listen to this and reaction on the progressive side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D-WV):  I guess for them to get theirs, elect more liberals. But I'm not asking them to change. I'm willing to come from zero to $1.5 trillion.

My top line has been $1.5 trillion because I believe in my heart that what we can do and with the needs we have right now and what we can afford to do without basically changing our whole society to an entitlement mentality.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, (D-NY):  Which senator are we negotiating with? Is this June Manchin? Is it September Manchin? Is it August Manchin?
Will December Manchin be a different -- will this be a different Senator that pops up?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIASSON:  It's actually July 28th Manchin. That's the date of the memo.

BAIER:  Yes, that's right.

LIASSON:  And it hasn't changed since then.

But look, what he said was just basic facts. The reason Democrats are in this fix is because they have a gigantic agenda and a miniscule majority.
And they failed to win the extra seats in the House and Senate that they thought they were going to win in 2020, that Republicans thought they were going to win in 2020, and that's just reality. And as Joe Manchin said today, I have never been a liberal. He's representing a state that Trump won by, what, 29 points? So like that song in "Hamilton," they don't have the votes, and they're going to have to compromise. And that's just the way it is.

BAIER:  Trey, you've seen this play before. And Speaker Pelosi has pulled rabbits out of hats legislatively before. We don't know what's going to happen tonight. Do you think she could cobble this together?

GOWDY:  It depends. It depends on how many Republican senators continue to call Republican members of the House and ask them to vote for the infrastructure bill. So Kevin McCarthy has a job to do here, too, which is keep the Republicans coalesced. I love AOC's political strategy, which is insult the person whose vote you need. I just don't think it's going to work.

BAIER:  But let's take you to the flipside, Ben. What about those moderate Republicans who look at the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill and say, this is a chance to finally build that bridge, to finally fix that road that I have been talk about fixing to my constituents forever. Maybe I should vote for it. Is the politics of the moment more important than the bridge at home?

DOMENECH:  I think that's the big question, but headed into a midterm year, delivery of that bridge is going to become less and less of their priority.

And one more note on this. The kind of jabs that we've seen not just at Joe Manchin but today from some progressives at Arizona Senator Sinema have really become more and more aggressive during this point. The idea said by one member today that she hasn't shown us anything but a designer purse.
That's not the kind of insult that's going to go across very well with someone who is navigating a situation and who, last I checked has, 40 percent popularity among Republicans in Arizona.

BAIER:  And either one of them could become Republicans and change the dynamic. You get Senate Majority Leader McConnell. All right, thank you all. When we come back, a look at the newly renovated Washington Bureau.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BAIER:  Fancy. Finally tonight, FOX News is marking the 25th anniversary this year. We've covered a lot of stories in that time, and a lot have come from here in our Washington Bureau, where this program originates. As we look back on the past quarter century, we're also moving forward with a special ceremony here just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

(APPLAUSE)

BAIER:  A state-of-the-art, all-digital newsroom, the FOX News Washington Bureau reopened after a major renovation. Two new flagship studios, a super high resolution technology platform for video and graphics, and our newsroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  David is replacing on two, right. 

BAIER:  Reconfigured to allow producers and editors to easily monitor the ever-growing number of satellite video feeds on 75-inch TV screens. FOX Corporation CEO Lachlan Murdoch calls it an investment in the future for the top-rated news channel.

LACHLAN MURDOCH, FOX CORPORATION CEO:  And the reason is to give all of you the space and environment to continue to do your very best work.

BAIER:  Another behind the scenes feature of our new bureau, two very special places honoring two very special people. First, the Charles Krauthammer Green Room. If you've watched SPECIAL REPORT, you know how important he was to the show and the channel. We miss his words of wisdom every day. This plaque says in memory of our beloved colleague, friend, and patriot.

This is the Tony Snow Radio Studio in honor of our friend who passed away
13 years ago, the host of FOX News Sunday. This is to remember him every day.

JAY WALLACE, FOX NEWS MEDIA PRESIDENT:  The heartbeat of the news operation since FOX News Sunday kicked off 25 years ago this past spring.

SUZANNE SCOTT, FOX NEWS MEDIA CEO:  This is also a moment to remember an extraordinary voice and gentle giant in our business.

BAIER:  This renovation was long in the planning. The original FOX News Washington Bureau was our home through the major news events of our time -- impeachments, wars, congressional fights, Bush v Gore, and 9/11. But an ever-evolving news environment has inspired us to redesign our new offices bigger and better to complement the latest technology along with our solid storytelling and reporting.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BAIER:  It's great digs, 25 years later, we'll be looking back over the next couple of weeks.


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