Sorry, Chuck Todd. On media bias, the science is settled

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 20, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: So Chuck Todd, a guy so adorable he has two first names doesn't believe there is liberal bias in the media. I can only respond by saying I don't believe there is a Chuck Todd. He explains why righties don't do talk shows.


CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: I think that the mythology of the big bad, non-conservative media has gotten in to some offices and so that there is the sphere of we can't do anything -- it's -- I feel like it's a mythology that now younger staffers believe. And then it infuses them in these guys. They actually believe the spin that's out there. Oh, my God, that's what the mainstream media does. They do anything to disrupt the conservative agenda. The mythology of the media out to get conservatives is believed among more and more actual staffers.


GUTFELD: Nice goatee.

All right. Look, denying media bias at this point has to be like denying science. You're worse than a flat-Earther. You are a no Earther. Because if you don't believe in media bias, what else do you believe in? That men once rode dinosaurs? That Bill Maher is edgy?

In order to deny media bias, you'd got to deny studies of voting practices of journalists, which reveal liberty purity, the frothy leftism of the journalistic launching pad that is the leafy campus, the scandals where the journalists conspire to smear righties as racist, that journalistic whistle blowing is always left on right and it's never the reverse, see Benghazi as opposed to Plame, the threesome that occurs whenever a lefty shows up on "60 Minutes."

But I guess if you believe in that objected media, you believe in anything, like a whistle is better than a gun, redistribution beats opportunity, black conservatives are Uncle Toms, and female conservatives are scold, that being born white is racist, that tolerance requires calling terror workplace violence, that our country's energy can be found in Griffin lint, that the Tea Party is more harmful than drug lords, that Occupy Wall Streeters were cuddly muppets, that choice matters before birth, not after, that a border is selfish, that every tenet of the left hasn't saddled most young Americans with a toxic notion of entitlement without achievement, drowning in disposable culture as China rifles through our wallets and our hard drives.

But it's easy to miss media bias. The quote Madge from Palmolive, "You don't see it, my dear, because you're soaking in it."


GUTFELD: Do you like that, Kimberly?



GUTFELD: You know what? Anybody born in our era will know who Madge is, I believe.

GUILFOYLE: Hello, Madge.

GUTFELD: Madge was great. She makes you rest in peace. Not sure if she's dead, but I'm assuming.

GUILFOYLE: Just in case.

GUTFELD: Hey, Bob. Is it a mythology? He calls it a mythology that the mainstream media is hostile to conservatives. You are on the other side here --


GUTFELD: -- but you must agree.


BECKEL: I must agree?

GUTFELD: Yes, with me?

BECKEL: Sitting in this seat everybody and you'll begin to agree very quickly. I'm not sure what -- I'm getting lost in what the mainstream media is. As far as I can tell, it's everything but Fox.


BECKEL: I mean, is that right?


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: And National Review.



BECKEL: But I mean, when you talk about the television business, OK, or cable, you're really coming down to this network, is the way I assume they're talking about it. And everybody else, now, CNN is mainstream media, MSNBC is mainstream media. Everything is mainstream media. So I guess we are out here on an island unto ourselves.

GUTFELD: We are.

BECKEL: Do I think people should come on here, more liberals ought to come on here? I have been fighting for this since I've been here. I think it's a good wide audience that they ought to talk to.

Do I think that there is some bias in some of our people and some of those shows? Sure. Do I think there is on the other side? Absolutely.

I mean, you know, you can't go to MSNBC and listen to that and not say that there is some bias on the other side.


Andrea, he's saying no one will do the shows where they feel like they are under attack. Do you buy that?

TANTAROS: I do. As a former Hill press secretary, why would you want to go on a show that could be hostile to your boss and you could take the footage of that, it could end up in a campaign ad against your boss?

Also, a lot of people aren't watching these networks. Look, if you are a Republican member, you are probably from Republican district. Your constituents aren't watching MSNBC. So, why put your person you work for in that situation?

If you are a member of Congress, why would you even do it? So, yes, I actually agree. It's not a mythology, though. There is a bias there, and that's they don't tend to do these more liberal shows.

GUTFELD: Do you think, Dana, somebody in the media can be liberal but keep their bias from affecting their shows? I don't think --

PERINO: Yes, I do.

GUTFELD: You do?

PERINO: My experience --

GUTFELD: I'm not talking to you anymore.

PERINO: -- in the press office was I thought that the reporters in the press room tried really hard to be fair.


PERINO: And maybe that was just because there was a Republican administration, so they are getting information from us directly. And so, they would fight for that. But I found the bias was in other places, but not necessarily in the White House briefing room. I didn't think so.

GUTFELD: K.G., what do you think?

GUILFOYLE: It's very positive.

GUTFELD: I know.

GUILFOYLE: Look, I think that Obama obviously has enjoyed one of the most, you know, charming, romantic presidencies of all time. He's highly managed. They don't put him in front of an interview for sure that anyone can ask a follow-up question or probing question or something that sounds in any way to be critical.

The mainstream media bias is very real. It's very prevalent. I don't know what Chuck Todd is talking about. I think he knows he doesn't know what he is talking about that. That makes no sense to me what he said.

PERINO: I don't think he's not even answering that question. I think that what they should do is just do their jobs, do it well and let the chips fall where they may. When Gallup does their poll of who do you trust, institutions and they take various ones, and they always do the president's one and Congress. And Congress is low.

But television media, well, news media, not just television is down in the 20s. Like 20 percent. So, I don't know who he is trying to convince.

BECKEL: Well, there's polarization taking place in the media, too. People watching, you could tend to watch what you want to hear, right? It's the same thing going to blogs and places on the Internet. But I'm not so sure that -- I think you are right. I think these reporters do try for the most part. You know, you can't indict everybody because of Candy Crowley or, you know, what's his name? Gregory. They're all not like that.

I think -- but also keep in mind a lot of them did go to Columbia School of Journalism. Are they more liberal? Of course they are. I don't know if right ought to get more people in journalism schools, I don't know.


GUTFELD: Go ahead.

TANTAROS: I'm just surprised that Chuck Todd made that comment after NBC was accused of editing a video. It's a little weird.


TANTAROS: I mean, it was obvious that they did it. So, for him to say that shortly after doesn't make a lot sense. Also, on the heels of the president's State of the Union speech, it was Chuck Todd that actually came out and said, I think that the minimum wage, what the president is proposing, is a good idea and here's why.

That's what we do. That's not what he does. He's supposed to report the facts. If he is going to be on the other side, they should do it differently.

PERINO: But it has morphed, I think. I think we all need to realize that if you work in the business, it's like, OK, look, you know where he is going to come from. You don't always know. I think that somebody like a Jonathan Karl of ABC News, when you go to him to get a question, you're like you don't know where it's going to necessarily come from. He's really good on the policy side of things. He understands it really well. What drives me crazy is that the media loves to put itself on the couch and self-analyze and aggrandize, of course. You know, they have to give -- they give themselves more award ceremonies than Hollywood does.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's true.

I want to talk about the reporters that have been complaining about access to the president and others, this idea that they are scared to get in the face of the president for fear that that will actually hurt their chances more. This is Jay Carney, defending press access or lack thereof.


WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY JAY CARNEY: I'm completely sympathetic, having covered two White Houses, to the difficulties of the job, covering any White House and the desire for more and more access. And I'm -- we work every day with you and others to provide that.


GUTFELD: Kimberly, here's my thing. The media has been liberal, by far. And I think President Obama knows this. So, is there a feeling of disrespect toward the media because he knows they are pushovers, don't have to talk to him?

GUILFOYLE: Isn't that interesting?

GUTFELD: It is interesting, Kimberly.

GUILFOLYLE: Yes. I don't know if he thinks they're pushovers. I think he's very used to kind of getting his way, getting favorable coverage. And they like him. I think they genuinely like him and his presidency and what he stands for because his core belief matched up with their core ideologies.

PERINO: And sometimes in the press -- in the rare instance where there are questions taken, you can see the reporter sometimes will say, OK, sir, I almost apologize for asking you this question.


PERINO: Please don't rip my head off or embarrass me in front of the world because I'm going to ask you if your stimulus program was the right thing to do. That's what I think about.

BECKEL: The other thing I'd say is that, these Sunday talk shows, which take a lot of heat about all of this, they take journalists and put them on panels.

PERINO: I know.

BECKEL: Dana was talking about morphing. You asked a question, right?


BECKEL: And your question is a political question. Yes or no, do you think this person this way or that way, and you almost force them to become an analyst that way, and you're going to disclose your bias that way.

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

BECKEL: So, you sort of setting yourself up to expose yourself as you were.

GUTFELD: Yes, which I do often.

Andrea, Al Jazeera, which is making their major U.S. expansion, I'm excited. I'd switch over to Al Jazeera when I get tired of MSNBC's anti- Americanism.

Is this going to be good for America?

TANTAROS: Al Jazeera is incredibly biased. I don't think it's great for any cable network that carries them. I don't think there's a huge market emerging, a lot of people are going to watch it.

Can I just jump quickly back to your question --


TANTAROS: -- on whether or not the president goes around the media now. I think he absolutely does. After Jay Carney said those remarks, he said we have given 541 interviews. Yes, but to whom? "The View," the Pimp with the Limp, People magazine, "Entertainment Tonight".

He has cut off access to the press. The press is very open about that. He's gone around them because he doesn't -- to your point -- need them anymore. He's got what he wanted from them. He whined and dined them and dumped them.

And now, he goes to local media today.

BECKEL: But those are outlets available to them. And anybody who's in the business of promoting your president is going to use the best outlet you could possibly get.

GUILFOYLE: That's their job. That's their job, right? They're not going to put them up for an interview that they think is going to be a tough one, like one on this network where he's actually going to be asked questions about the economy, the staff and, you know, figures, and actual math.

What are you doing about it? No, why would he? He wants to look good.

GUTFELD: So, that's what, you just -- what Chuck Todd was saying was he basically reflecting --

TANTAROS: Projecting.

GUTFELD: -- projecting what Obama was saying. Obama wasn't doing this for fear of being attacked. And he was saying that's what conservative politicians do.

I think we solved something here.

TANTAROS: You are just like Freud, Greg.

GUTFELD: I am, I am, without the cigar.

PERINO: Put ourselves on a couch.

Content and Programming Copyright 2013 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2013 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.