This is a rush transcript from "The Story," July 13, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Hi there, Mike. Thank you very much. So, tonight, the president is now in Scotland having schooled NATO and given the Brits a two-part Trump lesson on Brexit. The first was heavy- handed and roundly criticized. The second today at Chequers was the patch up effort. But still left the door open for a later rebuke.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I actually told Theresa May how to do it, but she didn't agree. She didn't listen to me. She wanted to go a different route. I would actually say she probably went the opposite way. She probably went the opposite way and that's fine, you know, and she should negotiate the best way she knows how. But it's too bad what's going on.
I gave her suggestion, not advice. I wouldn't want to give her advice. I gave her a suggestion. I could fully understand why she thought it was a little bit tough. And maybe it someday she'll do that. If they don't make the right deal, she might very well do what I suggested that she might want to do. But it is not an easy thing.
Once the Brexit process is concluded, and perhaps, the U.K. has left the E.U. I don't know what they're going to do, but whatever you do is OK with me. That's your decision. Whatever you are going to do is OK with us. Just make sure we can trade together, that's all that matters.
She's a very smart, very tough, very capable person. And I would much rather have her as my friend than my enemy, that I can tell you. I would give our relationship with the U.K. And now, especially after this two days with your prime minister, I would say the highest level of special.
MACCALLUM: The highest level of special. Also tonight, Rod Rosenstein indicts 12 Russian Intel and military officers for hacking the DNC and the Clinton campaign. Giving President Trump a fist full of evidence to use in his meeting with Vladimir Putin, where he said he would discuss election meddling but said this.
TRUMP: There won't be a Perry Mason here, I don't think. But you never know what happens, right? But I will absolutely, firmly ask the question.
MACCALLUM: There is a lot to talk about tonight. So, let's bring in Senator Lindsey Graham, who we are very happy to have with us live tonight in London. Senator Graham, always good to see you.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-SOUTH CAROLINA: We are in London?
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much for being here. We are in London.
GRAHAM: What time is it?
MACCALLUM: Its midnight here. But it's 7:00 p.m. East Coast Time, and I'm thrilled that you are able to go over to all of this with -- because it was just a very, very full day. Which we translate down there, and sure what.
GRAHAM: Thank you so much. It was a Trump day, it was a fascinating day.
MACCALLUM: So, what did you make of -- let's start first with the sort of the flip-flop that we demonstrated there with what we said to the Sun. I -- you know, "I gave her advice and she didn't take it, and oh, it wasn't really advice. It was more of a suggestion.
GRAHAM: I think it ended very well. So, NATO, he goes into NATO saying a bunch of slackers, so you need to pay more. And at the end, they had a joint communique where they said this is a vital strategic important relationship to the United States and the world. And they're paying more. He leaves here tonight, I think, with probably the best relationship I have seen with him and Prime Minister May. And he goes to Russia with a wind to his back.
MACCALLUM: Do you think she was sad that it was over though? Or you think she was waving for the tarmac, like, "Bye, see you soon. See you next time."
GRAHAM: Presidents -- it's always good to see the president's probably good to see him leave. Quite frankly, I think his performance with her today was the most presidential news conference he's had. It did get a little rocky with the Sun interview.
But I feel good about what he said regarding her and about her relationship. You know, special on steroids. But I really feel good about how NATO ended.
You know, we're going to meet Putin now, with NATO stronger than it was before. And we're going to go in to meet Putin with May's blessing and a firm relationship between us and the United Kingdom. That's a pretty good way to approach Putin.
MACCALLUM: It was interesting reading some of the comments by the MPs.
MACCALLUM: And as we have seen in those parliament meetings they go after each other pretty hard.
GRAHAM: Unlike Congress, we are always so nice.
MACCALLUM: Exactly. You know, my good friend from South Carolina, right?
GRAHAM: Who's the E.U.?
MACCALLUM: So, one of the Conservative MP's said that "The president was determined to insult her that he was -- it was a divisive dog-whistle rhetoric that was repulsive when he talked about changing -- how immigration is changing the fabric of Europe." So, all that could mean that Theresa May, although, she had a good relationship, I guess, at the end president.
GRAHAM: Yes, yes.
MACCALLUM: She's going to face a tough audience at home.
GRAHAM: You know, I think she handled herself very well. And I think, it ended on a good note. They talked -- they went to see a joint military exercise.
GRAHAM: They talked about a special relationship at the highest level. So, at the end of the day, I think these were too successful engagements even though they were rocky. NATO is going to pay more, we leave here, the United Kingdom firmly together, and now we're going to Putin.
MACCALLUM: I want to play before we move on from the Brexit and London part of the story. What he said about Boris Johnson, who at this point is a man waiting in the wings.
MACCALLUM: And I would hazard to guess that the president had some input from Boris Johnson before he came here in terms of -- you know, well, this is what I think is going on here. Let's play the sound bite on Boris Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was very saddened to see that he was leaving government, and I hope he goes back in at some point. Because I think he's a very -- I think he's a great representative for your country. Well, I am not pitting one against the other. I am just saying I think he would be a great Prime Minister. I think he's got what it takes.
And they asked about Boris Johnson, I said, yes, if they -- how would it be as a Prime Minister? I said, he'll be a great Prime Minister. He's been very nice to me. He's been saying very good things about me as president. I think he thinks, I'm doing the great job. I am doing the great job that I can tell you, just in case you haven't notice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Guess what? It came back to him at the end, isn't that surprising?
GRAHAM: Well, I like Boris Johnson. He is really is one of my best friends in politics throughout the world, and I think he would be a good prime minister.
But we're talking about Theresa May, today, I thought, the president gave her a high praise so that she was tough. He'd rather have her own his side than her being enemy. I thought he was very gracious to her, and now on the Putin.
We got NATO stronger, not weaker. We've got a good sendoff here in Great Britain. And people back home who say that he should meet with Putin, our president, I agree with Theresa May, he should go to Russia. He should meet go to Finland and meet with Putin, and he should define what a better relationship looks like.
MACCALLUM: Well, let's take a look he was asked a little bit about -- you know, what he was going to be discussing when he went to the Putin meeting.
MACCALLUM: Can we play that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know, you'll ask will would be talking about meddling? And I will absolutely bring that up. I don't think you'll have any, gee, I did it -- I did it you got me. There won't be a Perry Mason here, I don't think. But you never know what happens, right? But I will absolutely, firmly ask the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: The Perry Mason reference might have been lost on some of the folks in the -- in the British audience.
GRAHAM: Yes, right, right, right.
MACCALLUM: But everybody else knew what the president meant there.
GRAHAM: Yes, well, here's the bottom line. Russia didn't beat Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump did. Russia did interfere in our election, and if I were the president, I would not ask Putin, did you do it? I would reject his denial. I know you did it, and if you continue to do it, we'll never have a good relationship. I desire a good relationship, but you got to stop meddling in our elections. You got to stop helping the Taliban and Afghanistan. You got to stop propping up Hassan and helping Iran. You've got to be a better world citizen.
MACCALLUM: He's a very difficult person to deal with, Vladimir Putin. When the president goes in there, and you've been very outspoken in your message to the president on this.
MACCALLUM: You say, he is not your friend.
MACCALLUM: And if you don't go in there with that perspective, he could engineer the conversation in a very different way.
GRAHAM: You know, I have a lot of faith in President Trump. You know, Bush misread Putin. Putin ran over Obama because he was so weak in the eyes of President Putin. President Trump needs to convince President Putin that he wants a better relationship but things have to change to get it.
And at the end of the day, Putin doesn't respect Trump, this will be a failed summit. I believe that President Trump is going to lay out what a good relationship will look like, and challenge Putin to get there. And if he fails to get there that Trump's going to convince him, unlike Bush, unlike Obama, you'll pay a price on my watch. That's what I predict.
MACCALLUM: So, the big question is what's the goal with Putin? What does he want to get out of it? What's the leverage? What's the exchange? How do you see that working?
GRAHAM: To tell him, if you continue to meddle in elections in the United States, they'll never be a good relationship. Help me contain Iran because Iran is a menace to the Mideast. Stop helping the Taliban, let's fight Isis together. Get Assad out of Syria and put somebody in Syria that both-- we both can work with. Change your behavior to get a good relationship, be tough.
When he met Kim Jong-un, the only reason he met him is I think, Kim Jong-un believes that military force will be used by Trump if he had to. He's got to convince Putin that there's a better relationship available between the United States and Russia. But here, the terms and conditions, and if he fail to meet those terms and conditions, I'm going to be your worst enemy. I could be your best friend but I could be your worst enemy. And if Putin doesn't believe that, that will be a mistake.
MACCALLUM: All right, Rod Rosenstein came out today and leveled an indictment against 12 members of the Russian intelligence agencies and the military.
MACCALLUM: It happened right as the president was landing in Windsor. What's the impact of that news on this meeting?
GRAHAM: It means nothing to me. I know the Russians did it. It was the Russians that hacked into the DNC that got Clinton's e-mails, that got Podesta's e-mails. People in your business are going to have to decide. Do you empower a foreign government when they hack into a political party in the United States going forward? So, I didn't know -- learn anything. I want President Trump to go to meet Putin. I want a better relationship.
But when Putin, says "I didn't do it." I want President Trump to say, "I reject that denial, you did do it. And my friend, if you continue to do it." And they're coming after Republicans in 2018, nothing would please Russia more than chaos in America, the Democrats get the House and we -- with each other's throats. So I worry about their meddling in 2018.
MACCALLUM: Do you think that Russians are meddling in the midterm election in order to -- for the Republicans to lose the House.
GRAHAM: I know they are. I am. Well, we could lose without Russia being involved. But just think about it, there is fake news being pushed -- truly fake news. In these competitive seats, our Intelligence Agency says that Russia is still up to it.
And I think President Trump has got to let him know that if you keep doing this, we'll never have a good relationship. Russia didn't beat Clinton Trump beat Clinton. But President Trump, I want you to understand, Putin's not your friend. He's not the friend of Democracy. He needs to fear you and respect you for us to have a good relationship.
MACCALLUM: Interesting. Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Very good to have you laugh with us.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: I knew, we're lucky that you happen to be here, and always good to see you. Thank you, sir.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, still to come tonight, President Trump getting the royal treatment as he met Britain's Queen Elizabeth for the very first time. And we're going to talk to a royal expert about what happens behind the closed doors at this event.
And while the two heads of state met, tens of thousands of anti-Trump protesters flooded the streets in London. Benjamin Hall was out there. He has a live report from two from Trafalgar Square, coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out to politics. Go back to T.V. that's what I'd like to say to Trump. What it really like to say to Trump, I can't say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So tens of thousands of people took to the streets today in London's Trafalgar Square protesting President Trump as he met with Queen Elizabeth and Prime Minister Theresa May. Benjamin Hall was there and he joins us live with the story. Good evening, Ben.
BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. Well yes, as you say just about an hour away from where President Trump was meeting and having Queen -- tea with Queen Elizabeth, here in central London in Trafalgar Square was the largest rally we've seen in about 15 years. But we got to speak to people both inside the protest and also outside the protest and what we heard actually conveyed two very different points. Have a look.
HALL: Tens of thousands rallied on the streets of London today to vent their anger at President Trump's visits of the U.K. It was the largest protest in 15 years, brought parts of central London to a standstill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's important in the show of strength what has been today really. We're talking over 100,000 people that turn out today to campaign against Donald Trump's visit in the U.K.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'd really like him to just disappear, actually. I think he's completely unsuitable to be President of the United States.
HALL: It was a protest about many other issues though and the crowd was led in various chance to fight against climate change, fight for Palestine, fights as socialism, even fight for Muslim rights. This is now the biggest protest the U.K. has seen since 2003 but it's more than anti-capitalist anti-imperialist, anti-Brexit as it is about anti-President Trump and sadly many of the protests against the president are personal, not political.
Among them a 20-foot tall blimp that depicted the President as a baby holding a cell phone which was the centerpiece for demonstrators. Controversially, Sadiq Khan, the London Mayor gave his express permission for it to fly in Parliament Square citing freedom of speech but many others said this was the worst way to welcome the U.K.'s closest ally. There were also heated exchanges as a small group of far-right ring supporters engaged the anti-Trump supporters leading to scuffles. The two sides were eventually separated. But away from the protest many voices to their objection. The Trump arms once just a small local pub in London was rebranded to commemorate the President's visit and staff there were pulling pints in his honor. It's also where supporters gathered from across the U.K. to discuss the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good on you. Keep on going. You know, despite the media trashing him, he's -- he stands strong.
HALL: And outside parliament, others supported the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's President of the United States and you know he should be respected as such. I support him.
HALL: While others thought the media should look past the protests.
Do you think that it's maybe harming the special relationship to be having these kinds of protests?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's stronger than that. It was built on other things. It's not even political. I think it's just built up insecurity in history and culture, things that are timeless.
HALL: So there was also quite a lot of anger here at the process directed at Theresa May and her government than anger that she had reached out to President Trump and invited him and rolled out the red carpet. But that is exactly what they did because the U.K. is in quite a precarious political situation at the moment. They are so divided over Brexit that they say they need the special relationship. They need the support of their closest ally, the U.S. And so despite what we saw here in Central London, there really is a feeling at government level that that bond is as strong as ever. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Very interesting to see that mix of opinions out there and you captured it so well. Ben, thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight. So here now Tom Rogan, Commentary Writer for the Washington Examiner who was born and raised in England, Adam Boulton Editor-at-Large for Sky News who has served as Political Editor for 25 years and you have seen a lot along the way, both Of you have. Good to have you here tonight, gentlemen. So Adam, let me start with you. What's your reaction when you listen to those voices in the City of London today reflecting on this moment in time with President Trump here?
ADAM BOULTON, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, SKY NEWS: I would say that probably the relationship, the personal relationship between the President and the Prime Minister is more precarious and there has been for 50 years and that frankly Mrs. May will be breathing a sigh of relief that the visitors passed off without too much damage although his interview in The Sun was a massive breach of diplomatic norms and also hugely damaging to her at this stage over Brexit. As far as the people speaking there, overwhelmingly the mood of the British people it's reflected in opinion polls is that personally, they don't like Donald Trump very much. They disagree with his policies on many things ranging from the environment to his attitude towards Muslims and that's why they were demonstrated on the streets today. But you know demonstrations come and go. After all, there was a bigger demonstration against President Bush in Washington the day after the inauguration than there was at the time of the inauguration.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, Tom, when you look at what we saw today out there, how much do you think it reflects what's going on with people in this country because we've heard a lot about a mood being somewhat different in London than it is in middle England and other parts of the U.K.
TOM ROGAN, COMMENTARY WRITER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, I think as Adam says the polling data suggests that President Trump is personally unpopular but beyond that in terms of the relationship of the United States in the United Kingdom, I think is one of the gentlemen Ben interviewed -- was interviewing there said the systemic nature of the cooperation on defense intelligence industry really means that actually most -- a lot of those people who had been out on the streets today would favor a strong relationship with the United States. And so broadly when it matters in those areas, the relationship is strong and I think you know, these protests as Adam says, they do come and go and frankly, then they're not really that important.
BOULTON: Although it has to be said they were quite widespread. It wasn't just the City of London. They were protests in Manchester, in Sheffield, in Glasgow, even in Windsor outside Windsor Castle there were protests. So you know, Donald Trump has such a big figure that everyone has an opinion on him. They don't always have a really strong opinion about an American president.
MACCALLUM: I mean, I can only imagine, Theresa May must have been quite an emotional whipsaw over the last 24 hours, right? She invites President Trump. He's here for this trip. We know one minute he's criticizing her, the next minute he's bending over backwards to try to make sure that she -- that he's complimenting her. You know, where do you think they go from here in that relationship because he clearly left the door open to support Boris Johnson?
BOULTON: Well, yes. I mean, it needs the equivalent of you know, Mrs. May going and doing an interview with a mainstream media in America on a visit and saying actually I think America should sign up to NAFTA and TTIP and by the way I think Ted Cruz would be a great president.
BOULTON: I mean, it's quite an extraordinary -- quite an extraordinary thing to say. She, however, is pretty stoical. She has taken a lot of punishment and she would say and I think her advisers would say that by the end of the day, I mean Donald Trump came close to apologizing for those remarks so --
MACCALLUM: Oh, I would say so.
BOULTON: -- personally, going forward if these relationships matter between the President and the Prime Minister, she has done badly at the end.
MACCALLUM: What do you think, Tom?
ROGAN: No, I agree. I actually think it's incredibly striking, historically striking actually the sea change in attitude. And I think that was to be expected based on -- I think the President does have personal admiration for Theresa May even if he might prefer Boris Johnson to be in Downing Street. But broadly I think Theresa made doing -- you know the President said this that as much as Xi Jinping put on the pageantry in Beijing and Macron with Bastille Day in 2017, I think with the Blenheim Palace and the SAS and Delta Force at Sandhurst, that stuff works for Trump and it plays to what he is briefed on which is those systemic relationships. So ultimately think Downing Street will be OK. Great that he's out there playing golf now but also OK, thank you, Mr. President, for sort of recovering --
MACCALLUM: Well, I remember when he came back from France, he said, we should have military praise like that at home so I'm wondering if he's going to come back to America and say we actually should have a queen. I kind of like that idea.
BOULTON: And got a bit muddled with the Queen on the -- expecting the guard of honor, he didn't know what to do and he kind of blocked her out which is a pretty good --
MACCALLUM: I think everyone's kind of holding their breath hoping that that was -- the physical dynamic was going to work there. And she took a turn at one point and then he was kind of in front of her. I --it's interesting because he's not a person who's intimidated very easily but I think he was nervous about meeting the Queen.
BOULTON: Yes, I think the Queen puts on those displays just to remind people.
MACCALLUM: What do you think she thinks of him?
BOULTON: Well, we will -- we will never know. She doesn't write her memoirs. She doesn't give interviews. I shouldn't imagine she's very impressed. I mean, to be honest, although he's retired, I think the fact that Prince Philip didn't turn up was a subtle message that perhaps they're not as looking for his close relationship with the Trump's as perhaps they had with the Obamas.
ROGAN: But they do know that that the importance of the relationship you know, the defense side, the intelligence side, is absolutely critical, I mean in terms of counterterrorism and that is why you see even with officials who are not really predisposed to President Trump which I think is the norm in the establishment they are very happy this trip took place and it didn't go off without a bat. It go -- it went up with a side bang and then a sort of recovery. And so they will say, OK, we'll take that --
MACCALLUM: Big sigh of relief and maybe --
BOULTON: And also, you shouldn't take it away from the First Lady. I mean Melania has gone down fantastically well. Everyone loved the pictures of her meeting the kids and their -- and the Chelsea pensioners so she's been a real --
MACCALLUM: She's a nice moderating factor. Yes, she does a lovely job with all that. Thank you so much both of you. It's really good to have you here.
ROGAN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Adam Boulton and Tom Rogan, our British experts this evening. Thank you, gentlemen. So the White House is said to be widening the circle of who can get a look at the evidence that the FBI put an informant in the Trump campaign and why? Alan Dershowitz is here with what it might mean for the case. And a warning for President Trump from a man with first-hand knowledge of the brutality of Vladimir Putin. Bill Browder who calls himself Putin's number one foreign enemy here with his sobering analysis next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think I'd have a very good relationship with President Putin if we spend time together and I may be wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going in with high expectations but we may come out with some very surprising. We met at the G20. And if we could develop a relationship which is good for Russia, good for us, good for everybody, that will be great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: President Trump saying that he is entering Monday's one-on-one with Vladimir Putin with his eyes open. And my next guest wants to make sure of that having experienced firsthand the brutality of the Russian strong man.
Bill Browder ran an highly successful investment fund in Russia until 2005 when he was abruptly expelled and his company was used to perpetrate a massive tax fraud. He hired Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky to find out what was going on with his company and this infiltration.
Magnitsky was then thrown into a Russian prison where he died in 2009 after being beaten and denied medical care. He was 37 years old. And he left behind a wife and two children.
Ever since Browder has campaigned to punish Russia and he says that as a result of this he has become Putin's target himself.
Bill Browder joins us now with a reality check into this man and how his mind works and what he likely wants to get out of this meeting with President Trump. Bill, good to see you back on the program tonight. Thank you very much for being here.
BILL BROWDER, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Great to be here.
MACCALLUM: You recently were arrested in Spain and you believe that that was put upon you by Russian intelligence there. Right?
BROWDER: Yes. So, about a month ago I was arrested in Madrid, Spain, I was in Madrid to provide evidence to the Spanish prosecutor about money from the crime that my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky uncovered and was killed over going to Spain.
And about an hour and a half before the meeting was scheduled to start, some Spanish police officer showed up at my hotel room and took me in on a Russian Interpol arrest warrant. Now, thankfully, I was able to tweet out, this tweet out that I was being arrested.
And by the time I got to the station they were getting so many telephone calls from politicians and journalists they realized that they had made a big mistake. And about two hours later, Interpol called them up and told them to release me.
But this was a seventh time that Russia had used Interpol to try to get me arrested to get me sent back to Russia so they could kill me like they did Sergei Magnitsky, my lawyer.
MACCALLUM: What about, does the FBI contact you about this? Are they in touch with the fact that everywhere you go you run the possibility of being arrested by a Russian warrant essentially?
BROWDER: Well, I mean, there is a lot of different people on my side from different law enforcement agencies around the world. But, I always have to be careful. There is a lot of countries that I don't travel to because I know that the governments in those countries are weak and would potentially hand me over to do a favor for Vladimir Putin.
Putin is a cold-blooded killer and Putin would love to get rid of me. The reason he hates me so much is that I was the person responsible for the Magnitsky Act which imposes sanctions, freezes assets and bans visas for Russian human rights violators. And because Putin and all of his cronies have so much money that they've stolen in Russia that they keep in the west, they really hate that more than anything.
MACCALLUM: You know, everybody remembers the discussion about the Magnitsky Act and lifting it from that June 12th Trump tower meeting that Donald Trump, Jr. took with some of these officials who were connected to it.
But, the sort of common knowledge is, that's not really what they wanted to talk about. They really wanted to talk about dirt on Hillary. Do you believe they were really there because they were hoping to get some end to get that lifted?
BROWDER: Yes. So, I mean, the one thing that everybody from that meeting that Trump tower meeting could agree on in their depositions and I've read all the depositions is that the purpose of the meeting from the Russian side was to get the Magnitsky Act repealed. That was the main purpose of that meeting.
We don't know what they offered to have that done. And we don't know if anything -- what else was said. But we know that that's what they wanted, that's what the Russians wanted from that meeting.
MACCALLUM: This is a sound, a quote, rather, from the New York Times quoting Susan Rice from the Obama administration. Let's take a look at this. And I want to get your thoughts on what she said, "His coming summit with Mr. Putin in Helsinki is a dangerous and counterproductive undertaking. The risks are many and the benefits, if any, are difficult to discern." Do you agree with that?
BROWDER: Well, I don't think that there should be a summit at all. I don't think, I mean, I know I was just in Washington. I was just meeting with Democrats and Republicans and there is not a single member of Congress that thinks that there should be a summit taking place. It just doesn't make sense to dignify Vladimir Putin with a meeting with the most important man in the free world.
Vladimir Putin is running an economy the size of the State of New York, his military budget is 90 percent less than the United States. And is he making trouble all over the world. He shouldn't be dignified. He shouldn't be rewarded with this type of recognition.
MACCALLUM: There are -- Senator Graham was just here. He does think that the meeting should take place, so there are certainly some who believe that it would be a good idea.
You have called Vladimir Putin Pablo Escobar with nukes as you just said a cold-blooded killer, a bald faced liar. What would you tell President Trump as he goes into this meeting? What is he to understand about this man and how to read him?
BROWDER: Well, I would say that, so when he goes into that meeting, he shouldn't be asking Putin for anything. Because there is nothing that we can get from Putin. He should be telling Putin that he should stop doing the bad stuff that he is doing. He should pull out of Ukraine. He should stop all this nonsense in Syria. He should stop meddling in elections in the United States and the U.K. and France and Germany and he should just become a properly behaved world citizen.
If he does that, then he should be recognized as being a player, a normal player in the western world. And if he doesn't, we should come down on him like a ton of bricks which we have the capacity to do as the United States, as U.K., as France, in the west we're bigger, more powerful than Vladimir Putin. And he should understand that we will act if he doesn't behave himself.
MACCALLUM: Very interesting, Bill. Thank you so much. Good to have you here tonight.
BROWDER: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So Rudy Giuliani says that the Peter Strzok hearing should signal the end of the investigation into the Trump campaign.
Alan Dershowitz is here with the new developments and what they might actually mean. Plus, President Trump was very excited to meet Queen Elizabeth today at Windsor Castle. So what did she likely say to him when the cameras stopped rolling? That's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: All you have to do is look at the basics and you will see. It looks like a very serious event. But we'll find out. When they look at the documents, I think people are going to see a lot of bad things happened. I hope it's not so. Because, if it is, there has never been anything like it in the history of our country. We now call it spy gate. You are calling it spy gate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So new tonight, we could see what evidence there is on that FBI informant who reportedly tried to infiltrate the Trump campaign in the lead up to the 2016 election.
Now, according to New York Times, the White House has now ordered wider access for the classified documents that detail that investigation. In other words, files ones only accessible to the gang of eight will soon be available to all the members of the House and Senate intelligence committees to take a look at.
Here now Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law professor emeritus and author of the new book "The Case Against Impeaching Trump." Alan, great to see you tonight. Thank you very much for being here.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: What do you think is the significance of the fact that the White House is now going to expand the number of people who can look into this issue of when this informant was hired and what the timing of that tells us about what initiated this investigation in the first place?
DERSHOWITZ: Well, I think it's a good development. And think ultimately the American public has to know what went on here. We may not be able to know some of the specifics, which are classified. But we ought to learn the general parameters of what happened.
You remember, I went through the situation in my life where the government put spies in the antiwar movement. The Civil Rights movement. So, every civil libertarian should be concerned about even if there is a possibility that an informer has intruded into a political campaign. That's just not right. That's just not American.
And you know, that's why I called for an independent, nonpartisan commission to investigate the whole election. Because Mueller is not going to look into this because it's not a crime.
And the congressional committees are going to bicker against each other, Republicans and Democrats. There's Republican truth, there's Democrat truth. If had you a nonpartisan expert commission there would be real truth. And that's what the American public is entitled to. To find out what actually happened in this election.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I think everybody should want to know the answer to that question. With regard to Peter Strzok's testimony this week, here is Rudy Giuliani, lawyer to the president talking about this last night. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Mueller should be ashamed of himself. Those Democrats trying to protect that liar Strzok today should be ashamed of themselves. And every FBI agent I know wants to see this guy drummed out of the bureau.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DERSHOWITZ: Well, he should be dump--
MACCALLUM: What do you think of that, Alan? He's -- go ahead.
DERSHOWITZ: He should be dumped out of the bureau. The idea that a man would make those kinds of statements while he is involved in an investigation and not recuse himself he should have recused himself and he's telling us yes, I was biased but the bias didn't influence his decisions.
We all know as lawyers that bias influence his decisions even unconsciously. Even if you don't know. That's why no lawyer would ever allow a person like Peter Strzok to serve on a jury against somebody with whom he had that kind of a biased approach.
So, you know, this a serious issue. And both Democrats and Republicans did not look good yesterday. But the lowest of the low points came with Congressman Cohen of, I think, Tennessee where he offered this guy a medal, you know, a medal, a Purple Heart.
I mean, what an insult to the men and women who have been wounded and hurt to the rest of their lives and earn a Purple Heart to give this guy a Purple Heart because he had some hard questions drone to him by some belligerent congressman? What an insult to American soldiers, sailors, and service people.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Highly, highly inappropriate. This is a tweet that Rudy Giuliani put out with regard to these indictments that Rod Rosenstein announced. He says of the Russian intelligence operatives. He says "The indictments Rod Rosenstein announce are good news for all Americans. The Russians are nailed. No Americans are involved. Time for Mueller to end this pursuit of the president and say President Trump is completely innocent." Your thoughts?
DERSHOWITZ: Well, you know, it proves -- this indictment proves that we never needed a special counsel. This indictment could have been brought by ordinary prosecutors, ordinary FBI agents. There's no conflict here. It's Russians they are going after.
There is no president. There is no people around the president. There is no conflict between the attorney general, the deputy attorney general and Americans.
It's all Russians. Why do we need to spend 20, 30, $40 million, have special counsel appointed to do a routine national security investigation, number one.
Number two, we will never find out the extent of the guilt of these people because of course they are never going to go on trial. They are indicted but they'll never go on trial. Do you think the Russians are going to extradite them? Do you think they are going to travel to the United States to Disneyland to get arrested? Of course that's not going to happen.
So it will be the end of the process. And indictments are just one sided allegations. They are not proof.
MACCALLUM: Alan Dershowitz, always good to see you, sir. Thank you very much for being here tonight.
DERSHOWITZ: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
MACCALLUM: You bet. So coming up next, the Queen of England meets Donald Trump. You don't see that every day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you think of it for so many years she has represented her country. She has really never made a mistake. You don't see like anything embarrassing. You don't -- she is just an incredible woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So that was President Trump praising Queen Elizabeth in that controversial interview with The Sun newspaper. Today, her majesty welcomed the president and first lady Melania Trump to Windsor Castle in royal fashion.
Earlier I spoke with Ingrid Seward who is the long time editor in chief of Majesty magazine about what usually happens when the queen meets with a U.S. president.
MACCALLUM: So talk to us about why the queen meets with all the American presidents and what today means.
INGRID SEWARD, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAJESTY: Well, the queen is head of state as well as being our queen. And she is in that role that she meets with every other head of state because she has been on the throne for so long.
She has met I think 11 out of the 12 presidents that have been around since she has been queen. She was very, very fond of Reagan and Nancy. And she actually had them here to stay. And it wasn't a state visit. It was very much like this.
But then President Reagan and the queen went riding. And what the queen had forgotten was that the president is used to chatting to the press. And she was really annoyed. You should have seen her face. Because he stopped talking to her and talked to the press.
MACCALLUM: Right. She thought they were riding together.
MACCALLUM: And he thought it was a press opportunity.
MACCALLUM: That's fascinating. So in terms of what is happening here today, and the ceremony of it, and the importance of reviewing the guards and all of the elements of this, including the tea, tell us about that.
SEWARD: The queen and Trump as you would have seen stood under a dias and reviewed the Coldstream Guards which is a Guard of Honour. Then obviously she took him in to tea. And then they had an official photograph taken in the Grand Corridor. And when it says Grand Corridor it really is a Grand Corridor.
MACCALLUM: In terms of their time together, you know, there was in the U.S. press please don't hug the queen. You know, the kind of protocol that he needs to understand going in there about bowing or not bowing and hugging or not hugging which we have seen a couple of times. I believe Michelle Obama hugged the queen, right.
SEWARD: Well, Michelle Obama just put her arm around the queen because they were talking about high heeled shoes. And I think she was showing the queen her shoes. But heads of state don't bow to each other, it's as simple as that.
MACCALLUM: Does anything in the history of the family sort of guide how she might feel about things like Brexit or how she might feel about the current government in the U.K.?
SEWARD: The only thing we know is that she certainly was keen for Scotland when they had a referendum Scotland to remain united with the United -- with Britain. And we think, but we don't know, that the queen was in favor of Brexit. Probably for all the reasons, you know, she thought it would be better for her children and great grandchildren. But we don't know that. And if Trump asked her about it, she certainly wouldn't pass any opinions.
MACCALLUM: As she has met all these presidents over the years were there some that she liked more than others? Because we know that her relationships with the prime ministers, have some been closer than others.
SEWARD: I think she really liked the Obamas. I'm not talking about their political views, but she felt that they were very young couple and incredibly responsible job. And she sort of likened them to when she first became queen. And she was, you know, she was 25. And she was married to Prince Philip and they had two young children.
And I think she just liked the Obamas. I mean, I'm not -- I don't what she thought about their political views. So we know they were fond of them because they have been back for tea. They have been to Windsor. They have been to Buckingham Palace. She also liked George W. Bush. She liked Reagan. You know, she has to be very careful not to allow any personal preferences come in on these visits.
MACCALLUM: You know, some people in the United States will often ask well, why doesn't she -- you talk about Prince Philip sort of stepping back from his official duties. Why doesn't she pass it on to Charles? Explain why that is just simply not possible and absolutely not the way it works?
SEWARD: When the queen was crowned, she was ordained by God. And as she is the head of the church and the defender of the faith. And she will reign as queen until she is no longer fit and able to do so. Because she was ordained by God. And that's the dropping of the holy oil on her forehead, which is an extraordinary moment in the coronation. So, as long as her marbles are there, she won't go.
MACCALLUM: And her marbles are certainly there. She was incredible today. Ninety two years old. Coming up next, a quote of the night. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The United Kingdom and the United States are bound together by a common historic heritage, language, and heroes. The traditions of freedom, sovereignty and the true rule of law were our shared gift to the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That is our story for tonight from London. We'll see you back in New York on Monday night. Good night, everybody.
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