Sen. Paul: We must have in-person voting to limit potential for fraud

close

Video

Sen. Paul: We must have in-person voting to limit potential for fraud

Kentucky Republican joins 'The Story' to discuss the integrity of the 2020 presidential election

This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum" November 23, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Bret. Good to see you
tonight. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is THE
STORY. Breaking tonight, Michigan has now certified their election results.
We're waiting now for Pennsylvania. We expect that likely tomorrow. And big
news tonight as the General Services Administration has reached out now to
President-elect Biden to formally begin the transition process. And they do
that with this tweet from President Trump just moments ago.

He writes, I want to thank Emily Murphy at GSA for her steadfast dedication
and her loyalty to our country. She's been harassed, threatened, and
abused. And I do not want to see this happen to her, her family, or
employees of GSA. Our case strongly continues. We will keep up the good
fight and I believe we will prevail. Nevertheless, in the best interests of
our country, I'm recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be
done with regard to initial protocols and I've told my team to do the same.

Now, Joe Biden has promised a return to normalcy. We're beginning to see
what that looks like piece-by-piece as the old guard establishment is
essentially re-established, dubbed dole by design today by Axios as mostly
familiar faces start to their return to Washington and with it perhaps a
vastly different level of transparency. We're going to talk about that in a
moment.

But Biden is likely to have another big factor to confront as President
Trump looks to be fighting to stay in the picture and potentially lead the
massive movement that he has built, which is still ardently supportive and
believes that they and he were wronged.

The Washington Post reports the president is seriously contemplating life
beyond the White House, telling advisers that he wants to remain an
omnipresent force in politics and the media, perhaps by running for the
White House again.

Here now, Joe Concha, the Hill media opinion columnist, and Fox News
Contributor. Bill McGurn, Wall Street Journal columnist and editorial board
member, and Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and Fox
News Contributor. Welcome to all of you. It's good to have all of you with
us tonight.

BILL MCGURN, WALL STREET JOURNAL COLUMNIST: Good to be with you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Bill. Let me begin with you, Bill, on this breaking news. It's a
very - it's a real move and it's a symbolic move that the president has now
said that the GSA should begin this transition preparation process.

MCGURN: Yes, I think it's as close as we may get to a concession and an
acknowledgement that the wheels are turning, the space is running out for
his appeals. And my own view is I think the president is entitled to make
whatever legal challenge he wants so long as it's constitutional. But I
didn't think it would change the results. It doesn't look to have been
successful in that direction anywhere.

And I think he - I don't know whether he really will run again in 2024, but
I would say he has a much more immediate interest, and that is in having
those Senate races in Georgia go Republican, because if they don't, a lot
of his achievements, the judges, revive of the economy to tax cuts and
deregulation, his vaccine to warp speed. Brother Thiessen here calls it the
single greatest public health victory in modern times.

All that is threatened if the Republicans lose to Georgia and some of the
lawyers, Lin Wood has said maybe we should not vote Republican in Georgia.
I think that would be disastrous. I think it would be disastrous for Donald
Trump for his record of real and considerable achievements. And I think
it'd be disastrous if he does have plans for 2024.

MACCALLUM: Let's hear from Brother Marc Thiessen over there. Your reaction
to this move by the president. There have been a lot of forces kind of
moving in this direction in the past 24, 48 hours. Marc, what do you think
about this GSA move? How significant is it tonight?

MARC THIESSEN, AEI SCHOLAR: Well, first of all, I associate myself with
everything Brother Bill just said, I agree with him 100 percent. And
looking forward, the president - I think, first of all, he needed to do
this. He needed to cooperate. He can't be - if he does want to run in 2024,
he can't be seen as a sore loser. And certainly, the press conference the
other day put him in danger of these lawyers were making him into a
laughingstock. And that's something it's very hard to recover from.

So, he needs to start looking forward away from the last election and
towards the next election. And the way to do that is to cooperate with the
transition, to be gracious and have a dignified transition of power and at
the same time, go and win a victory in Georgia and do it by looking
forward, say to the people of Georgia, I'm coming back in four years. And
if the Democrats get control of the Senate, they're going to get rid of the
filibuster. They're going to pass all the most radical legislation that
they possibly can. They're going to change. They're going to pack the
Supreme Court and undo all my judicial nominations.

They're going to pack the Senate, make it harder for us to take back the
Senate. And so, they're going to do stuff that I won't be able to undo in
four years. So, I'm going to make this Biden years, a brief interregnum
between two Trump terms. But you've got to protect our progress so that I
can come back and move us forward.

MACCALLUM: Yes, very well said, and I want to read this from Liz Peek
today, which I think echoes some of what Bill and Marc have said here and
says it quite well as well. She says tens of millions of Americans have
lost faith in our institutions, our media and now in our elections.

After months of Democrats rewriting the voting rules, extending deadlines,
pushing mail-in-voting, only 44 percent of Republicans a month before the
election thought that the ballots would be accurately cast and counted
nationwide, a record low. But now, she writes, to maintain his powerful
voice and leadership, he needs to concede, he cannot allow this to be his
legacy. The presidency has been so much bigger than that. Trump should
confound the Left, as he has done on so many occasions by calling off the
shaky legal battles and stepping aside, if only for now.

Joe, your thoughts on all of these developments tonight.

JOE CONCHA, THE HILL MEDIA OPINION COLUMNIST: Well, my brothers and
sisters, let's include Martha in this conversation as well, we're being
chummy here.

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

CONCHA: 68 percent of Trump supporters want him to run again in 2024.
That's a Reuters Ipsos poll. So, yes, he could still be gigantic in terms
of his presence in media going forward, because remember, he's got this
little megaphone called a Twitter account that has 89 million followers.
That's more than the population of Germany. So, he's not going away. He's
not going to be silent. And the media is going to keep him front and center
because he has generated clicks and ratings like no public figure in
history.

On the other hand, you're going to have a risk adverse and packaged Joe
Biden doing very little in terms of press conferences where he actually has
to have his staff call on a predetermined list of reporters. Imagine that
the leader of the free world can't even call on any reporters on his own
that he thinks may deal a tough question like a Peter Doocy or a Bo
Erickson of CBS who had to yell a question at him over the weekend. And it
was a very fair question, by the way.

He said, will you encourage teacher unions to get kids back in school,
because the science supports that. It says it's safe. And look, as a guy
who has a daughter in an elementary school that you may have attended,
Martha, by the way, I'm waiting for them to name it after I think it was
about 20 years ago or so if I'm doing my math.

MACCALLUM: I wouldn't count on that.

CONCHA: It's nice. But they're doing a great job there. And she's back five
days a week and they barely had any positive tests. And that's a good
question right from Joe Biden. If you're sure about unity, are you going to
talk to teacher unions about this? And Erickson had to yell it because he
doesn't get called on because he's boxed out. So that's a preview of things
to come where Joe Biden, the only thing you said back was why are you the
only reporter that shouts questions? Because you're never calling on him.
That's why. And that's a preview of the next four years.

MACCALLUM: Let me show that moment actually, Joe, I have that moment. Let's
take a look at that. It's pretty interesting. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BO ERICKSON, CBS REPORTER: Mr. Biden, the COVID task force said it's safe
for students to be in class. Are you going to encourage unions to cooperate
in order to bring kids back to classroom, sir?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Why are you the only
guy who always shouts out questions?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, he just basically rearranged the water bottles on the table
and said, why are you so rude, essentially? But one thing that I find
fascinating about this that Joe laid out so well, Bill, is that you're
going to have - this is not going to be the classic sort of, if the
president leaves the White House and he wants to sort of stay quiet. He
wants to let the next president sort of have his room to run and be
respectful of that. That's what we've seen my whole life basically.

I do not expect that we will see anything even similar to that. And
President Trump will continue to tweet. He talks to the American people; I
don't know an average of 28 or 29 minutes a day by someone's recent count.
This is going to be a day in, day out battle that Joe Biden is going to
have to deal with, with Donald Trump, isn't he, Bill?

MCGURN: Yes, I agree. Look, during the campaign, he sat in the basement,
came up and answered questions about his favorite flavor of ice cream and
very seldom got a question like the one he just had and ignored. And I
don't think you could do that as president. You can, of course, limit your
press conference as people used to complain about President Obama. I think
he had an average of like 1.6 press conferences per month on the lower end
of the scale.

You could do that, but you're going to have to - you are now the man
responsible for the results. You can't just criticize and blame on someone
else. So, I'd say I don't blame Joe Biden for this. He and Kamala Harris
settled on a plan where they basically didn't take any tough questions
because it worked for them. It worked well. I blame the press for letting
them get away with it.

It was really outrageous. And we'll see now, in 2016, The New York Times
announced that objectivity was a luxury that couldn't be afforded in the
Trump age. Are we going to go back to trying to be objective and holding
both sides accountable? I'm very curious to see. There'll obviously be a
honeymoon period and so forth.

But, if Joe Biden wants the plans that he says he wants from his platform,
kind of Green New Deal kind of thing and some of the other big spending
things, there's going to be a lot of ferment and a lot of questions asked.
And I think, look, if the Republicans keep the Senate, that's another
thing. Ron Johnson looking into Hunter Biden, I mean, it's not going to go
away. It sorts of becomes a little more important.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Marc, what role do you see President Trump playing in a
Biden presidency from the outside?

THIESSEN: It's going to be fascinating because normally what happens in the
presidency is the president, the president who loses goes away. There's a
period where there's really no opposition or to the Commander-in-Chief.
Then there's a period where they field sorts itself out and then you
finally get a nominee and that takes three and a half years. I wouldn't be
surprised if Donald Trump declares his candidacy before Biden is
inaugurated. So, we're literally going to move straight into the next
campaign.

The challenge for Trump is that what appeal to a lot of people liked what
Trump did but didn't like what he said. But they put up with what he said
because of what he did. Right. They liked his policies. They liked the
economy. They liked its pro-life policies, whatever you name the policy and
that's it. He's not going to have that. He's not going to be able to do,
he's only going to be able to say.

So, in the eyes of those swing voters, Trump is going to - he's not going
to have the levers of power to be able to deliver the things that attract
them to him. But he's going to be there from the very beginning. He's not
going away, he's not going to be like George W. Bush saying, I owe my
success and my silence. He's going to be running for a second term like
from January 21st on.

MACCALLUM: And Joe, before we go, how does the media handle that? Because
they've tried in many ways to sort of shut President Trump out and now,
they're giving all these softball questions to Joe Biden. And you're going
to have this peppering from President Trump from the sidelines. How are
they going to deal with that?

CONCHA: In a way, Martha, it's kind of a break for Joe Biden if Donald
Trump stays in the spotlight because you'll see a continuation of the
questions that Joe Biden got during the campaign, which is Donald Trump
said this or Donald Trump tweeted that. What is your message? How do you
respond? And he's never asked about his actual policy or world view or
strategy. I'll leave it here.

I went back and looked at President Trump's first press conference as
President-elect after he was elected four years ago, and 13 times reporters
broached Russia or Vladimir Putin. In other words, you couldn't have won
this on your own, either you had to have had help from an adversary. And
that was a preview of things to come for four years. I have a feeling that,
as it was mentioned before, there will be an extended honeymoon period for
Joe Biden when he takes office in January if these legal challenges don't
work out for the president.

MACCALLUM: Well, I for one, would like to ask him the question about the
teacher's union and the statistics on COVID-19 and schools and what is the
best place for kids to be during all of this. So, hopefully we'll get an
answer to that and soon. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Bill. Thank
you, Marc. Great to see you tonight.

MCGURN: Thanks, guys.

CONCHA: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up, President Trump fought for a vaccine by Election
Day. It now looks like it may be here for some by Christmas time. And the
experimental antibody treatment that was given to the president is now
approved for emergency use. It was an experimental drug at the time. Dr.
Tom Inglesby on what he calls the best news we've had since the start of
this pandemic. He joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, the other big news tonight is on the vaccine front, as cases
spike and hospitalizations rise in nearly every state in the nation,
Operation Warp Speed Chief is now saying that we are just weeks away from
the first immunizations, which could speed up the herd immunity process, he
says, in the coming months. Listen to Dr. Slaoui.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, OPERATION WARP SPEED CHIEF ADVISER: So, I would expect
maybe on day two, after approval on the 11th or on the 12th of December,
hopefully the first people will be immunized across the United States,
across all states. With the level of efficacy, we have, 95 percent, 70
percent or so of the population being immunized would allow for true herd
immunity to take place. That is likely to happen somewhere in the month of
May or something like that based on our plans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, joining me now, Dr. Tom Inglesby, Director of the Johns
Hopkins Center for Health Security. Doctor, great to have you back on the
show. Thank you for being here tonight. What do you think about what you
just heard from Dr. Slaoui of Operation Warp Speed? Do you agree with him?

DR. TOM INGLESBY, HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: Well, I certainly
respect Dr. Slaoui and think he's been very effective at this program. I
don't know enough details to really understand the timeline, but it seems
possible, given the information that we've been hearing and it's very
exciting news, I think we need to see the actual results of the FDA review
process and the external committee that reviews the information.

But we'll know that in a few weeks. And if at all, if it's all as we've
heard so far, then that really is the best news we've had since this
pandemic started. One vaccine, possibly two or three vaccines close to
follow that have very high effectiveness and so far, good safety profiles.

And what about the idea that if they do get out into the country and people
start the immunization process as early as mid-December, that you could see
some kind of immunity built up in the country to even 70 percent, he said
potentially by May? Does that add up for you?

INGLESBY: It does if we can vaccinate that quickly, I mean, 70 percent of
the population is something on the order of 230 million people, which is a
huge number of people, we've never done anything like that in the United
States at that scale, at this speed. In a normal flu season, we don't
vaccinate even really 50 percent of the country. And we only have one shot
and is very familiar. This would be two shots and faster and many more
people. And it's unfamiliar to people and they have to really understand it
and trust it.

So, it's a huge effort that we need to take place between now and then. But
I know there are literally tens of thousands of people working to try and
get these plans into place around the country. And so, I think it's
possible, but it's going to require a lot of work. It's going to be
complicated. And my understanding at this point is that the states haven't
received funding for implementing the vaccine program, getting it to people
from Washington yet. So that's going be really important.

MACCALLUM: Yes, the logistics. I mean, it's very impressive when you listen
to General Perna in terms of the process they have for getting it out
there. And we certainly hope that it goes as smoothly as they want it to
and as they have been working on to achieve that. What about the vaccine
itself? What do you say to your friends and family when they say, I'm not
sure I want to take it?

INGLESBY: Yes, I understand that because it's been a complicated process,
we've heard a lot in the news. There's been some - it occurred during a
very complicated time in the fall. I think when the information is finally
presented, the full information presented and we hear it from the
scientists who do this for a living, they review vaccine candidates for a
living. When they come through with the information and describe it, I
think people will get more confidence.

I hope people will get more confidence. I will have confidence if the FDA
that the career scientists FDA and the external committee and the other
leaders, the scientific leaders in and out of the government that look at
this, if they say it's safe and effective, I will have confidence in it.
And so far, what I've heard, I do have confidence. We just need to hear the
final details.

MACCALLUM: OK. One of the things that now that so many more people get
tested, we just got some news from Kelly Loeffler, the senator's team, she
tested positive a few days ago and then she had two negative tests right
after that. That kind of thing seems to happen more and more. Is that that
the tests are not accurate or is it something else?

INGLESBY: Yes, I mean, the tests have different profiles, some of them can
detect disease a little earlier, some of them had a lower sensitivity
overall and can't quite pick up a positive test. So, there are going to be
moments when tests disagree with each other. I think in general tests, the
tests that we're using are accurate for the most part, but we will have
false positives, false negatives.

And if there's uncertainty, then testing a second time makes sense. But I
don't think people should lose heart in the testing process overall. I
think it's generally going - it's generally accurate. But there are moments
when the tests aren't perfect. No test is perfect, but they're pretty good.

MACCALLUM: OK, so the Regeneron treatment that's getting a lot of attention
is going to be more widely available for people who are very sick. That
obviously sounds like a very positive development as well, right?

INGLESBY: It is a positive, definitely a positive development. I think it's
much more complicated than the vaccine. I mean, the vaccine is going to be
available eventually to everyone who wants it overtime, I think, with the
antibody treatment. It's really only authorized for people who aren't sick
enough to be in the hospital. It's for mild or moderate cases. It's not for
people who are hospitalized.

So, for it to be useful, people who get a positive test have to then move
relatively quickly to get the antibody treatment. And really, it's for
people who are at highest risk of progressing to severe disease. So, there
are logistical complexities there. They have to go to an infusion center.
It has to be - it can't be an infusion center that's used for other
purposes like cancer treatment, because we can't have people together.

So, I think it's just going to require states to really figure out the
logistics. It's going to be somewhat complicated. But I think if people who
are at high risk can get this treatment, then I think it has been shown to
decrease the percent of people that need to go to the emergency department
or get hospitalized.

MACCALLUM: Yes, it's going to take a good doctor to figure out, you're the
person who needs this. Let's figure out how to get it to you quickly. Dr.
Inglesby, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight. Thanks for coming
back.

INGLESBY: OK, bye-bye.

MACCALLUM: So, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul says that he doesn't believe that
human behavior can stop the spread of the virus. Pretty controversial
approach to that. We're going to talk to him about that later in the hour
with Thanksgiving coming up. And next, KT McFarland on the return of the
team that discouraged things like the bin Laden raid and referred to ISIS
as the JV team. And are they ready to handle what's coming from China?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible).

BIDEN: Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).

BIDEN: Because that's national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, who are the people who will have the daunting job of keeping
us safe? The President-elect is building a cabinet to return to normalcy,
as he often says. Most will be quite familiar with the White House and are
poise to reverse some of President Trump's America first agenda.

Biden's secretary of state pick is long-time aide Tony Blinken, described
by the U.K.'s Independent as, quote, "a veteran of Washington's old school
foreign policy elite."

He's a far cry from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo known for his bluntness
and background in the military and the United States Senate.

Joining me now to compare all of these folks is K.T. McFarland, former
deputy national security advisor for the Trump administration and author of
"Revolution:  Trump Washington and We the People."

K.T., great to see you tonight, thank you for being here. Tell me a little
bit about Antony Blinken and the choices and decisions that he made in the
last administration that might help people understand where his -- where he
comes from, what his frame of references.

K.T. MCFARLAND, AUTHOR, REVOLUTION:  Well, Antony Blinken, as well as all
of the other appointments that president-elect, if we call him that, Biden
has talked about there are people who have the same jobs, same offices in
the Obama administration. They were all just stepping up one more notch on
the wrong.

The problem with all of them is this is the group who, you know, initially
failed to understand the crisis in the Middle East. They failed to
understand the threat posed by the Islamic state, by ISIS. But most
importantly, as they were focused on the Middle East, they took their eye
off the ball on China.

Now this is globalism writ large and the first thing that's going to go out
the window is, as you just pointed out, America first. These guys are going
to get out the American checkbook, they're going to rejoin all the
international organizations which we underwrite and pay for, and the
problem is that none of them are going to stand up to China if the past is
any indication of where they're going in the future.

These are the people, Martha, who looked at scans and just didn't think
China was a threat. As China started building a maritime trade route to
challenge our own, a land-based trade route to challenge our own that
started as, you know, stealing American technology trying to command the
dominating heights of the technology revolution.

China is making no secret now that it plans to replace the United States as
the world's dominant power within a few years and the worry is, for me,
that the Biden administration, particularly someone like Blinken and John
Kerry and others are just going to let them do it.

MACCALLUM:  Yes. I mean, I think all Americans hope that there is a clear
eyed sense of the threats that we face around the world and when you look
back to the serious situation and a lot of this team was in placed when
President Obama said, you know, chemical weapons would be a red line for us
if we started seeing that happening, we would have to act.

And then the decision was made not to act and we also remember what
happened right after President Trump took office and that was that missiles
were fired in retaliation for those actions.

So, I mean, clearly, you know, just based on their own history and what we
know about the decision that they made in the past, it does seem like a
group that is going to be much more interested in diplomacy. Is that fair?

MCFARLAND:  Yes. But diplomacy, here's the problem with diplomacy. If you
don't have leverage, if you're not negotiating from a position of strength,
you're not really negotiating, you're just begging. You're just pleading
with some other country to do your bidding.

Without the leverage and without the leverage of the economic leverage,
without the technological leverage, without the energy leverage, all of
which they are going to give up, then I don't think that diplomacy matters
one single bit. Diplomacy is just a bunch of guys sitting around a table
sort of hoping for the best.

The one thing you can say for President Trump, tough and sometimes rough as
he is, he was a strong leader, has been a very strong leader and he is the
first American president of both parties to stand up to the Chinese. And my
concern, again, is that we are running out of time.

You know, it used to be the Chinese thought well, by midcentury they're
going to dominate American -- dominate world politics and then rewrite the
international rules of order. Their -- the pandemic has speed up their
timeline. They plan to get there within five years.

MACCALLUM:  K.T., always good to have you here. Thank you very much, K.T.
McFarland for weighing in tonight.

MCFARLAND:  Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM (voice over):  Coming up next, we will talk to an Ivy League
educated mathematician who was raised in an interesting article over the
weekend. He crunched some of the data that he was given and he assessed
that about 100,000 ballots could potentially be in question in
Pennsylvania. He will explain his thinking as he looks at that data when he
joins us next, and then reaction from Senator Rand Paul as Joe Biden
prepares to stump in Georgia for the Senate runoffs next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  Breaking just moments ago, Philadelphia County announcing that
it has certified its election results for Joe Biden. Today is the deadline
for all Pennsylvania counties to certify as the Trump legal team is
continuing their fight despite suffering another loss in the courts in that
state today.

The team also just cut ties with one of its most prominent members,
attorney Sidney Powell, days after she made claims of voter fraud that
included a conspiracy involving Venezuela and Cuba and implicating the
governor of Georgia.

So, while there are a lot of theories that are floating around out there,
many of which are unsubstantiated, there are also real concerns that need
to be ironed out about mail-in voting for the future and even for this
Georgia election coming up in January.

So, my next guest is a mathematician who analyzed some of the data from --
of the Pennsylvania voters and he's here to share some of his takeaways.

Steven Miller is an Ivy League educated professor of mathematics at
Williams College in Massachusetts. Professor, thank you very much for being
here tonight.

Most of us are not mathematicians, so if you can tell us in civilian terms
sort of what you analyzed the data that was given to you. You did not
harvest this data yourself, so you took their numbers from the voter
integrity project, which is Trump affiliated but you looked at their
numbers and what did you find in them?

STEVEN MILLER, MATHEMATICS PROFESSOR, WILLIAMS COLLEGE:  Sure. So it began
-- I've been looking at a lot of election data sets and you know, various
analyses were being done and Matt Brainard (Ph) was kind enough to send me
some data he had taken from Pennsylvania and from some other states.

So, let me talk about Pennsylvania. So, then he had a lot of mail-in
requests from people who had, according to the state, requested an absentee
ballot, but no absentee ballot from them had arrived by November 16th to be
counted.

So, there's a couple of belated questions. The first is, are the people
that Matt called representative sample of this population and now the
answer is accurate? And so, Matt (Ph) have to talk about how this data was
gathered and why he believes that the answers to this is yes.

The second, which is what I did, is what are the consequences of this data?
So, I answer that question in isolation. I should have answered them
together and included the discussion of the data collection methods. I did
this because the consequences -- because if true, the consequences are so
troubling for our election integrity. (Inaudible) recollection more on the
data, which again Matt is happy to provide. So briefly what I was able to
do is --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM:  OK. So, you said that you estimated that the number of ballots
requested by someone other than the registered Republican is between 37,001
and 58,914 and almost surely the number of ballots requested by registered
Republicans and returned but not counted is in the range of 38,910 to
56,483. So, combined you're in an area that is somewhere around 100,000
ballots that appear to be difficult to pin down what happened to them? Is
that true?

MILLER:  Yes, but it's also important to know that the other states that
Matt Brainard (Ph) provided is just absentee ballot requests and it's not
split by party. So, for Pennsylvania you also have to look at the request
from Democrats. You have to look requests from independents.

This analysis is not saying what happened, this analysis is not saying that
the electors should be given to a different person. This is looking at what
is happening in a global pandemic when we are having a massive amount of
the first time ever mail-in voters.

And so, to me, I was interested in looking at this data to try to get a
sense of how well is the system working, where is it doing well, where can
it do better?

MACCALLUM:  Well, I think it's really important to do this kind of
analysis, because we just had a completely unprecedented election with an
enormous amount of mail-in and lots of anecdotal evidence -- I know
separate from your work of, you know, people saying that they voted and
then they couldn't find their vote recorded on the web site when they
looked for it, or in cases that I've heard of separate from your work,
people who went to vote and were told that they had already mailed in a
ballot when they never requested a mail-in.

So, the work is important to go through these states and figure out what
happens so that we can get this right, because if there's really nothing
more important in the sanctity of the vote in the United States.

Thank you very much, Professor Miller. Good to have you with us tonight.

MILLER:  Thank you so much.

MACCALLUM:  You bet.

So, joining me now is Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. He has spoken out about
investigating potential voter fraud and he joins me now. So, Senator Paul,
good to have you here tonight.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY):  Thanks.

MACCALLUM:  I'm sure you heard the news at the top of the hour tonight
about the GSA beginning their process of the transition and Michigan has
certified their vote, Philadelphia county has now certified their vote, but
the president said there are still outstanding cases that they want to
continue to pursue and you hear in this instance, this mathematician, you
know, just really looking at this mail-in process, which in some aspects is
very perplexing.

PAUL:  You know, I think the first thing that we need to acknowledge is
that this was an unprecedented election since that normally 99 percent of
people show up in person. We can kind of police that the right people
showed up because you don't have the same people showing up again and
again.

They sign in, they show an I.D. and it's pretty easy to validate the vote.
But now we have an election where maybe a third to a half mailed in their
ballots. This is never, ever happened in our history, so we have to do
validate were they the right people?

And the left keeps saying there's no evidence or there is insufficient
evidence. But what Professor Williams has done here is he's taken a random
sample of Republican voters and found out that there is an extraordinary
number of Republican voters who said they voted that weren't counted and
then there's an extraordinary number of Republican voters who said I didn't
request a ballot, I didn't vote and yet they are recorded as having voted.

And when you take a random sample, when you do statistics, and you apply it
to the whole, now we have evidence of large-scale problems with the vote. I
think they can take this to court and show that this is a random sample
that represents a million votes.

Now we may be talking about 100,000 votes. That would be enough to tip the
difference, I would think that if we took this to a court, the court would
then mandate that you have to look at all of the absentee votes one at a
time. Not count them, but verify whether or not the person who you say
voted, you actually call them and ask them did you vote and who did you
vote for to verify the votes.

MACCALLUM:  Yes. I mean, it's mind-boggling, actually. How much room there
is for these kinds of mistakes and you hear these things anecdotally so
it's very interesting to hear this sampling of these numbers and what it
adds up to from this professor.

You know, the president indicated in this tweet tonight that they started
the GSA transition process. What -- you're a senator, obviously are
concerned about the Georgia election. We know that Joe Biden is heading
there to campaign. What would be your advice for President Trump tonight
with regard to his own position and with regard to that Senate race?

PAUL:  With regard to the Senate race, I think the president would be an
asset to campaign for the candidates down there. There's not been a
politician in my lifetime or even in the previous generation that's been
able to draw crowds and enthusiasm like President Trump. He's very popular
in Georgia. I think he would help quite a bit to go down there and campaign
for him.

MACCALLUM:  And what about the presidency and continuing to pursue the
legal avenues?

PAUL:  I think that this is an unprecedented election, we've never had one
like this. When a third of the people vote by mail, yes, we need to
validate that those are the correct people, they actually did vote. If we
are not willing to do that it means we're really not willing to examine
this election in its extraordinary fashion.

But it also means that the easiest way to validate an election is to vote
in person, I'm not against voting early or having early voting, but the
majority of the vote, the vast majority needs to be in person because
there's so many checkpoints.

Can you imagine calling on a million people in Philadelphia and saying did
you vote, who you voted for and checking if that was accurate? The first
thing you do is a sample like Professor Williams did and when you look at
his sample and apply it to the whole, you're astounded that there could be
100,000 invalid votes just in Philadelphia.

So, I think in the future, we have to go back to in person voting. We can't
just say here's a ballot, we are going to mail it to anyone. I think it's
ripe for fraud.

MACCALLUM:  Right.

PAUL:  Now we have scientific evidence that there may well have been
widespread changes in votes in Philadelphia and they could have affected
the election.

MACCALLUM:  Yes. Well, I mean we know Jimmy Carter and James Baker both did
a study way back and said mail-in voting has huge potential for fraud, so
we need to get this right.

Before I let you go, you set an outnumbered overtime today, it's getting
some attention. There's no indication any lockdowns have slowed this down
with regard to the virus, obviously.

I think the Wall Street Journal put it best when they said the virus is
insidious, it's largely spreading regardless of human behavior. Does that
mean that, you know, following the guidelines for Thanksgiving and all of
that doesn't really keep us safer, is that what you're suggesting?

PAUL:  I think if you look at the mandates in the lockdowns, and you can
look at chart after chart, state after state, country after country. As the
mandates become more severe, as the mask wearing has become more
widespread, the incidence of the inspection has gone up.

We are going up exponentially now despite all the mandates, so you can
argue there may be some benefit and I think there are benefits to N95
masks, the other masks don't work, and it would be a benefit if you are at
high risk to wear one.

But having everyone wear one is not a good idea in the sense that I don't
think it's necessarily helping. It's incredibly invasive and one point on
your herd immunity, your doctors were saying we need two-thirds. Well, in
New York City a third of the people have antibodies, so maybe you get to
herd immunity much faster with only a third being vaccinated.

MACCALLUM:  Yes.

PAUL:  I'm still for everybody being vaccinated --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM:  I think that's a great point. Yes.

PAUL:  It's interesting that we have a lot of antibodies out there and many
more people have had this and actually know it.

MACCALLUM:  Yes, and if you did massive antibody testing you probably could
get the vaccines to the people who need them more effectively and you would
reach immunity in a quicker way through that way. Senator, thank you.

PAUL:  Well, interesting -- all right, thanks.

MACCALLUM:  Yes, go ahead.

PAUL:  I was just going to say interestingly the way we know how we do the
antibody testing is also random sampling. They sample 3,000 people in New
York --

MACCALLUM:  Right.

PAUL:  -- they take that percentage, but then they extrapolate it to the
whole of New York and they find out that about a third of New York has had
antibodies, which wasn't good because a lot of people unfortunately died by
getting the infection, but the good news now is it's going to speed up herd
immunity as we get the vaccine, that it may come quicker than some people
think.

MACCALLUM:  Yes. It makes a lot of sense. Senator Paul, good to see you.
Thank you very much.

PAUL:  Thank you.

MACCALLUM:  So, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, speaking about New York
City proudly accepting an Emmy for leading his state through the COVID
crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY):  It has been a dark moment indeed. But what
strikes me most is that when things are at their worst, that's when you can
see people at their best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM (voice over):  Our very own Janice Dean lost both of her in-laws
during this crisis, a beautiful couple of her husband Sean, his parents.
They were nursing home residents. The governor failed to protect. She's
next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  So, New York state has lost more people to COVID-19 than any
other state in America, nearly 34,000 people lost their lives in the State
of New York and of course a lot of that in New York City. Now we have
learned the grim truth, that more than 650 bodies are still being stored in
trucks in Brooklyn. It's heartbreaking.

And just today it was announced that a field hospital will reopen on Staten
Island as the virus continues to persist in the city of New York. Still,
Governor Andrew Cuomo just accepted an Emmy for his leadership and use of
television to inform the public. The presenters saying, quote, "he
informed, he demanded and he calmed people down." Here's part of the
governor's acceptance speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO:  I wish I could say that my daily COVID presentations were well
choreographed, scripted, rehearsed or reflected any of the talents that you
advance. They didn't. They offered only one thing, authentic truth and
stability. But sometimes that's enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM (on camera):  Janice Dean joins us now, Fox News senior
meteorologist. She lost her mother-in-law and her father-in-law to COVID
during this crisis. Janice, you have been such a fighter in throughout on
behalf of your in-laws who were in a nursing home and so many others who
sadly suffered the same fate and were lost to their families. What goes
through your mind when you listen to the governor accepting this award?

JANICE DEAN, FOX NEWS SENIOR METEOROLOGIST:  I wish he had begun his
acceptance speech with, I'm sorry for your loss, something that we have
never heard from this governor. And he continues has self-congratulatory
tour. He started with his COVID death mountain poster which he sold on his
web site and then he had his book, his leadership book that he's been
promoting for weeks, even missing 17 meetings with the White House about
COVID and the pandemic and what they can do with the vaccines.

He missed 17 meeting so that he could promote his book and now the icing on
the cake. Emmy Awards and, it's just, it's so insulting, I can't -- there
are no words for it. I've talked to so many families that are just, they
are heartbroken, that this governor does not accept any responsibility for,
in some cases, his deadly leadership.

MACCALLUM:  Yes. It would be a good thing I think, I think leadership, you
know, humility and leadership is so important and to accept when you make a
mistake and the ramifications of it, it's a very powerful thing and it
would go a long way to so many of these families. This is some of the
Hollywood folks applauding his Emmy Award. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY CRYSTAL, ACTOR:  In the darkest days of the pandemic, your daily
briefings live from New York gave us hope, gave us clarity, gave us the
truth and gave us something that we were not getting from Washington,
leadership.

ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR:  Thank you for your leadership during these trying
times. We are New York tough, smart, disciplined, united, I love it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM (on camera):  So, lots of pats on the back there from Hollywood,
Janice.

DEAN:  I think Mr. Cuomo would like to be a celebrity. He likes to surround
himself with celebrities. He likes to do his book tour, interviews with
them. I say, governor, go to Hollywood because we would like a real leader
who cares about his residence of New York State.

MACCALLUM:  Janice, thank you very much. Our heart goes out to your family.
You've had a lot of loss and you've spoken up for so many other families
who are in the same position as you are and I admire you as always. Thank
you for being here tonight. Janice Dean.

DEAN:  Thank you, Martha. Thank you.

MACCALLUM:  So, on Friday we told you this story of marine corps reserve
PFC Thomas Johnson who was killed during the Battle of Tarawa in World War
II while fighting Japanese forces. He was the recipient of the silver star
in recognition of the courage that he demonstrated at the young age of 18
years old.

His remains were finally recovered by the nonprofit organization History
Flight on Betio island and have now been safely returned home to
California. This is just one of the many ceremonies of returning the
remains of these heroes from Tarawa.

So today, this afternoon, 77 years after his death to the day Johnson
received his proper funeral with military honors.

Our gratitude to his family and are glad -- we're so glad that Honor Flight
gave them that moment. That's THE STORY of Monday, November 23. THE STORY
continues. We'll see you back here tomorrow night at seven. Have a good
night, everybody. Tucker is up.



Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL
RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2020 ASC Services II Media, LLC.  All materials
herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be
reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast
without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may
not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of
the content.