Sen. McCain reignites fiery feud with President Trump

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 17, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Kennedy. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Tonight, is a resolution coming soon to stop the anthem protest on the football field? NFL owners, players and execs coming together today in New York to iron out how to settle the storm. President Trump has called on the league to suspend players if they kneel during the Star-Spangled Banner. Colin Kaepernick started the protest last season to raise awareness about racial inequality. He's now filed a grievance against the league claiming owners are colluding to keep him out. The NFL and players union issued a joint statement after the meeting, calling it productive. This Eagles player who attended had positive things to say.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I felt like the meeting went really well. Obviously, we've been invited up here to be able to speak with owners about some of the issues of injustice that we've seen in our communities and how as players we want to use our platforms. And we've just talked about how the owners could come alongside us and we could collectively collaboratively work together to actually create some change.


WATTERS: Outside the headquarters, black lives matter demonstrators held a protest of their own.


CROWD CHANTING: Take a knee against white supremacy.


WATTERS: OK. So two-part question for you, K.G. One, white supremacy, didn't know that was taking the kneel was protesting against. But two, positive development between the players and the owners, how do you predict this thing going?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Look, I think that it's going to, ultimately, go in the right direction because they want to bring some closure to this and have some resolution. It's not good, you know, for anybody. They sort of, OK, made the point and now you can go out and do community outreach and continue to strive on behalf of social justice, and whatever you like to express your opinion for in this country. It's why so incredible. But at the same time you can also do the job that you were contracted to do and abide by the NFL's rules. Roger Goodell, yes, showing some Leadership now, but unfortunately, you know, leadership needs to head off crises like this and be there to make sure that all sides feel they're being well represented, that their voices are being heard. The people are listening. Otherwise, then you have sort of this, you know, mismarks evolution of what was initially supposed to be about police injustice, police shootings, and now you're hearing them now spin it. It's got a side message which is white supremacy. So you've got to kind of figure out and follow the bouncing ball.

WATTERS: And it looks like the owners, Juan, are seeing ratings go down, stadiums. I think we have some pictures. Not all seats are filled up. That's a problem with attendance. And they want to wrap this thing up. And I'm sure the players want the heat off them as well. Do you think that's true?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yeah. I think the players would like to have some resolution. I think they don't like being disrespected. They don't like being called SOB's by the president of the United States. They don't being threatened first by the president in terms of calling NFL owners, many of whom are big fund supporters, to fire them and being told the owners they're afraid of their black players. Oh, boy. And then, of course, I think there's resistance even when Jerry Jones, the head of the Cowboys says he's going to put in place a rule. Quickly, the NFL said prior to this meeting today there is no requirement that the players stand. They would like them to stand.

WATTERS: A suggestion.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But it's not a requirement. There will be no punishment. So I think that in today's atmosphere, everybody would like to see some resolution. I disagree with you, by the way. I mean, the numbers in terms of the ratings, in terms of the capacity, you know, most stadiums are unchanged. There are some that are down slightly.

WATTERS: More down that are not.

WILLIAMS: Most are unchanged.

WATTERS: That's a fact.

WILLIAMS: My favorite team, the Washington football team.


WILLIAMS: . they went from 84 percent.


WATTERS: Ratings are down. Attendance is down.

WILLIAMS: . 84 to 82 percent at Washington football stadium at FedEx Field this last Sunday.

KENNEDY, CO-HOST: What if it's 2 percent next week and the week after that?

WILLIAMS: I don't know?

KENNEDY: That starts to add up.

WILLIAMS: Right. What I'm saying right now, we are in to this. Remember, last year, Colin Kaepernick was there starting this controversy, Kennedy, and we didn't see it. So my point though is I think the resolution is along these lines. What you'll see is the NFL saying we're going to invest in commercials, advertising about social justice issues. We are going to back criminal justice reform in the congress. We're going to take positive action so it's not just about kneeling but it's about some substantive change. And on that score, hats off to the NFL.

WATTERS: And that's a great idea. Speaking of Colin Kaepernick, he was invited to the meeting today and did not show up.

KENNEDY: It's really interesting because he really could be the face of this movement. And I agree with Kimberly. I think when you have something like this and you're really marching in the same direction, you're going somewhere, we have yet to determine where that -- where is. He should be the face. He should be the one saying this is our next step. Dana leaned over to me as we're watching some of the video after the meeting said, I want these people to get along. Absolutely.

WATTERS: Why can't we all just get along?

KENNEDY: In these communities, these football players are superstars. Not just to the fans but to the cops who are also huge sports fans. So how much of a difference could they make if they sat down with law enforcement and said, hey, these have been some of the circumstances I've witnessed in my life. These are some of my friends who've been pulled over and put into the system. What can we do to change this? This is how we do our job. How do you do your job? And how can we somehow bring the two together to make the entire issue better.

WATTERS: Great, constructive idea. As a matter of fact, last year, law enforcement deaths in the line of duty were up substantially. So they're under a lot of pressure as well. Dana, I want to play some sound from Martha's show last night. Interesting suggestion from former Green Beret and NFL player, Nate Boyer. Listen.


NATE BOYER, FORMER NFL PLAYER: I just think it'd be a powerful notion just to see two people that are obviously, you know, on opposite ends of the spectrum during this whole situation just as an example for our country, you know. We need to listen to each other more, whether you agree with others or not and just have these conversations.


WATTERS: I should have preview it, he was talking about Colin Kaepernick sitting down with President Trump.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think why not?

GUILFOYLE: Like a beer summit.


PERINO: Yeah, like the beer summit, but with sincerity. I do think that President Trump is in a great position, actually, right now. If the NFL now just came out and said we're for criminal justice reform. And you have bipartisan support in the house and the senate with some cosponsors to say we're for criminal justice reform, too.


PERINO: And why wouldn't you want to drive that forward and be the leader on that? I guess if it's there for the taking, make it happen.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I don't know if Jeff Sessions is going to buy in, Dana.

PERINO: But does he have a choice? If the president says I want this done.

WILLIAMS: Remember they undid so many of the kind of concentric -- local police department have about working with.

PERINO: No, I know. But I do think as the president said, especially now to Jeff Sessions, this is what I want done. The power of the president is amazing because he bring people together and say let's get this work done by the end of the day.

WATTERS: What an amazing photo op. Colin Kaepernick and President Trump. President Trump could look like the big healer in chief. He could look like the better man. And maybe Kaepernick after he met with the president might get signed. Might help with his P.R., Juan.

WILLIAMS: It might. He might take a knee.


WATTERS: If he does that, Trump got his secret service.


GUILFOYLE: Somehow I don't know if that's going to go so well. But, you know, (INAUDIBLE) you guys are familiar with him, he's also a CNN contributor, but he was saying on Saturday that it's not just about social injustice, and police crimes, or police excessive force, or brutality, it's about gender inequality, gender pay, the pay gap, and it's about housing discrimination. So the list is evolving.

KENNEDY: That is an extensive net.

GUILFOYLE: Right, and it's also about this. And then it's about dry cleaning is unequal in price.

KENNEDY: It really is. And when it's not environmentally friendly.


PERINO: I'm up for that, actually.



WATTERS: And we've had this discussion, Juan, because now the grievances have metastasized. It's 6 or 7 things on the laundry list. First, about police brutality, and now it's about dry cleaning.


WATTERS: She's joking, but it's very confusing and I think that added to the problem.

WILLIAMS: This is not -- but to me, you know, this comes back something dana and I were talking about. We're talking about Conde Rice saying, you know what, she can understand the complaint, but if you have strategically mounted an offensive that allows your critics to say it's about something else, you've made a mistake.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And so, here we have a situation where the critics and the players say this is about disrespecting the flag, disrespecting the anthem. I don't think that's what the players are about. I don't even think the players are about disrespecting police. They say they don't like police brutality.

KENNEDY: OK. But what about this? Scott Walker proposes that perhaps the NFL can address the problem within the league of domestic violence.


KENNEDY: And maybe that should be -- because obviously.

GUILFOYLE: And the homicides.

KENNEDY: . has to be addressed. Perhaps, it is getting to encompass too many issues. But that is a major issue that the NFL hasn't appropriately, you know, taken care of with some of their own players.

WILLIAMS: Right. But I think that goes back to the Ray Rice situation in Baltimore with the videotape of him hitting -- I think it was his wife or girlfriend in the elevator.


WILLIAMS: But that's not what this was about, and that's not what Colin Kaepernick started to do. So lots of things get piled on. So I was curious -- I was thinking to myself, what are they saying? Because, remember, (INAUDIBLE) so I had to rely on Jesse who says they're shouting - - end to white supremacy?


WILLIAMS: So to me, I don't see how that -- I mean, clearly, people have arguments. I know some people on the far left say this is about systemic racism in a society, and they want their heroes, the football players, to use their platforms to raise this issue. This is, by the way, one aspect, Jesse. Never gets raised in your calculation. So many of these fans are black people. So when you had Jerry Jones and these other people saying this and that, it's almost like, oh, the white fans are going to abandon us if you do this, and the white conservative Republican fans -- guess what, they're black fans and liberal fans who say, wait a second, we want people to be socially aware and care about their community.

WATTERS: Well, I think it's less of a race issue than it's about patriotism. And I do want to add that Mark Garagos, the high-price attorney for Colin Kaepernick, says that Kap was not invited to the meeting. Maybe some of the players wanted him to go.

GUILFOYLE: He didn't get his post?



WATTERS: That's right. It's an incomplete pass with Kaepernick.

WILLIAMS: Sports Illustrated didn't put him on the cover either.

WATTERS: That was a jinx, so maybe he didn't want that.

KENNEDY: The swimsuit issue hasn't come out yet.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's true.

WATTERS: That's right, it is 2017.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe he can wear his socks with the suit.


WATTERS: Just the sock. Coming up, ISIS nearly defeated in Raqqa. Details on that major victory next.


GUILFOYLE: Today we got an incredible update on the war on terror from the Pentagon.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS is losing in every way. We've devastated their networks, targeted and eliminated their leaders at all levels. Today in Syria, ISIS is losing its grip. After more than four months of operations, Raqqa is more than 90 percent cleared.


GUILFOYLE: I could watch that over and over again. Raqqa is the de facto capital of ISIS, and that is big news. U.S. backed forces are nearly in control of the city, the terror network on the verge of defeat. General Jack Keane credits the Trump administration for finally getting the job done.


GEN. JACK KEANE: The Obama administration has always been paralyzed by fear of adverse consequence. What happens if this happens? What happens if it goes wrong? Always paralyzed. This think should have been over a number of years ago. This new administration came in, new team around this president. New national security team saying we're going after this thing. We're going to bring it down as quickly as we can.


GUILFOYLE: Dana, comment on Jack Keane?

PERINO: Well, he has the best perspective, right? Because he was there at the beginning and he knows what happens if you have a vacuum. And I actually think that -- so this is great news. I do think though that once ISIS is defeated, then we have to ask the question what is the U.S. role going to be. We know what happens when we walk away. That's what General Keane was just saying.


PERINO: So we have a problem. Iran has been extending its influence in the region. And at the same time, you have another problem happening right now in Iraq just in that Kurdistan region where the big oil-rich region. So you have all the fighters that were countering ISIS, and that would be Turkey, Syrian-Kurds, Arabs, Iraqi-Kurds, Iranian-backed fighters and us. We were all working together to defeat ISIS. Now they're actually all fighting each other, so that they can deal with that region. So there are -- this is great news in terms of ISIS being backed down and to only having 10 percent of its territory left, but there are some big looming problems on the horizon.

GUILFOYLE: You know, Kennedy, Dana brings up such an important point, we get caught up in the victory of it, and the decisiveness, and that really this kind of accomplishments have been achieved rather quickly under the Trump administration with a focus plan on it. Fantastic. However, what do you do about all these warring factions that are now competing to control the territory that were united against the common enemy but now splintered against one another?

KENNEDY: It's interesting because that is the uniting factor fighting ISIS has been. And it's wonderful to see their defeat because they want to see us dead and they hate freedom. So they're antithetical to our wonderful way of life. However, the Kurds have been our biggest ally in the Middle East and a very reliable ally at that when we see in so many places shifting alliances. And we think we're friends with someone, we give them a bunch of weapons, and then they turned around and use them on us. The Kurds they want independence. They just passed a referendum. And they turn around and here, you know, the people they were fighting with to defeat ISIS are now attacking them in Kirkuk to Dana's point. And it's really frustrating, but at some point, it's so complicated, it's so convoluted, and it's so deadly. We spent $1.7 trillion in Iraq since 2003. What are we getting out of it? What are our American interests at this point? I think we should be supporting the Kurds. And I think we should be supporting their independence. At the same time, we have to look at places like Turkey and say, maybe you're not a good ally. Maybe you're not a good friend. Same with Saudi Arabia.


WILLIAMS: So what are you saying is Iraq? Because they don't want an independent Kurdish area in the north just like the Turks don't want the Kurds extending across the border.


KENNEDY: And I'm sorry but Iraq and Syria don't exist in the way that they did 15 years ago.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I mean, remember, I think it was Vice President Biden who said maybe we should just draw sections, you know, kind of divide up what was Iraq. But the thing is.

GUILFOYLE: We have to come to the table to do that, don't you think, Juan? To be very helpful to help facilitate that before they start taking matters into their own hands, kind of be the conduit for those discussions.

WILLIAMS: Right. So when you look at who won this effort, I think that the effort won -- as I understand by the Syrian democratic forces, mostly Kurdish. I thing we do have a debt to them. We supplied with tremendous airpower in terms of bombing. You know, I was just listening, oh, the Obama administration was so worried about consequences. I was just today looking through the material and I said thousands of people killed, 270,000 displaced, homes levels, I mean, so that you have somebody describing the conditions in Raqqa, Mosul, and Ramadi as Hiroshima-like. And I'm thinking, wow, I didn't know. But that's what it looks like now.

GUILFOYLE: You could imagine, right?


WILLIAMS: And remember, the displacement led to the immigrant crisis that spread through Turkey into Europe. So there's lots of consequences. And that's why I was so impressed by you two, Dana and Kennedy saying, now we have to think about where it goes from here because we want to control it. We do not want a repeat of what we saw after the Iraqi forces ended in war, and then we saw the creation of ISIS out of the remnants of that military force.

WATTERS: Well, Juan, prepare to be impressed by me.

WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.


KENNEDY: Never miss an opportunity.

WATTERS: Under President Obama, ISIS grew to control a third of Iraq. That's about the size of the state of Indiana. Now, under President Trump, ISIS controls 3 percent of Iraq, which is like the smallest county in Indiana. I'm not saying President Trump deserves a lot of the credit, but, you know, a lot of credit does go to these local forces. But he really unleashed hell on ISIS by loosening the rules of engagement, by letting Mattis go in there and starting to kill people, not just contain them.

GUILFOYLE: Returning the rules of engagement to what they were prior to the Obama administration.

WATTERS: Precisely. Lawyers weren't calling in airstrikes. They intensify the airstrikes. So I think ISIS now on the ropes is a good development. Yes, there's some ugly scenarios, but sometimes those are the ugly consequences of war. You said also there's a lot of problems with these armed militias. You know, it's like the Shiite militia now from Iran there, we have the Kurds there, they're armed. A lot of these people might settle some old ethnic scores. I like to stay away from that. I don't think we should divide the country into three. That's just going to increase Iran's power. You know, you need a strong bull work geographically against there. But the main issue here is, Kimberly, that ISIS doesn't control the vast landmass where they have control of oil profits.


WATTERS: Because the oil profits were generating.

GUILFOYLE: That's what they're doing.

WATTERS: . their finances which was generating their ability to wage war on the civilian population.

GUILFOYLE: You don't need a new ISIS.

(CROSSTALK) KENNEDY: Can I ask you a quick question because, obviously, we only have so much money, and we're really over leveraged in this country. It's obvious. Just look at the debt that we've got. If you had to choose between somehow propping up Iraq in parts of the Middle East or building the wall which is going to cost $90 billion, what do you choose?

WATTERS: Since Mexico is paying for the wall.


GUILFOYLE: A lot of spin in the Watters World. All right. President Trump is set to declare the opioid crisis a national emergency, but is congress actually fueling the epidemic? The bombshell report next.


PERINO: President Trump will make a major announcement on the opiate crisis next week. He's expected to declare the epidemic a national emergency. This on the heels of blockbuster "60 Minutes" report that exposed Congress for being manipulated by the pharmaceutical industry.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Why are these people sponsoring bills? When people in their backyards are dying from drugs that are coming from the same people that these bills are protecting.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you think that is?

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Because I think that the drug industry, the manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors, and chain drugstores have an influence over congress that has never been seen before.


PERINO: Congressman Tom Marino has withdrawn his name for consideration to be the nation's drug czar after being highlighted as a champion of a bill that weakened the federal government's authority to stop companies from disturbing opiates. So Juan, that was old fashion investigative news reporting that led to that report that had a consequence with one person withdrawing their name. There may be more to come from this.

WILLIAMS: I think there's a lot more to come, Dana. But, I mean, let's just stop for a second and look at the consequences of not only the drug companies but the middlemen leading them to the drugstores.

PERINO: The distributors.

WILLIAMS: Pumping these opioids into communities. Joe Manchin, the senator from.

PERINO: We have that, actually, can I play it?

WILLIAMS: Please, go right ahead.

PERINO: Joe Manchin.


SEN. JOE MANCHIN: This is how bad the system is. This has been a business plan. I have said this from day one. In West Virginia, I know Mingo County, I know Kermit, West Virginia, when you have less than 400 people and send 9 million pills down there, you tell me that's not a business plan that you don't want to make money off of it. My goodness. You've got to be stuffing pills down people's throat. Men, women, and children. This is uncalled for. It's criminal.


PERINO: That's what you're talking about, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Exactly. I mean, Jesse even like, what is going -- 400 -- and he's saying millions of pills? What are you doing? How can that be justified? So then, the congress gets involved, Dana, and where as previously it was that the DEA, the drug enforcement agency, could stop shipment if they looked like they were being overdone and headed to the black market, they could stop it on the basis of suspicious behavior. The drug industry then goes to congress and says oh, no, they're getting involved with free enterprise here. We should be making this decision. The standard is raised. It has to be emanate and substantial threat, which is almost impossible to prove, and as a result the flow of these opioids continues.

PERINO: Kimberly, do you think that the companies are going to see some new regulation out of this? Or will it just continue?

GUILFOYLE: I actually believe there's going to be new regulation. I've never seen the level of discussion highlighting this epidemic. Really like a focus on it. I thought during the campaign, with Governor Christie, I've seen it continue with President Trump.

Governor Christie was there discussing this with the president last week. So I think that this is something that he really wants to get done, at least, you know, especially for President Trump. This is something very personal to him. Having lost his brother to addiction. And I think he understands very personally and uniquely, like, the struggle the families go through that are crippled by this. And families destroyed.

PERINO: And the first lady has actually taken it on as one of her issues. Kennedy, what do you think about declaring this a national emergency?

KENNEDY: I think it fans the flames of hysteria. You've actually seen more prohibition on these prescription pills in various states. They've been cracking down on doctors who dispense them and pharmacies who also allow for these prescriptions. But what you're seeing is more prohibition and more deaths from opioids, including fentanyl.

And people aren't getting fentanyl from the pharmacy. That's what Prince died of. People aren't getting it from the pharmacy. Poor people with mental illness are getting fentanyl on the street, and they're getting addicted to it fentanyl; and they will openly talk about wanting to shoot fentanyl. They don't want to shoot heroin anymore.

And that's the problem, is you criminalize this...

GUILFOYLE: China is sending it in, too.

KENNEDY: ... when it really is -- it is a national health crisis, and we should be putting people in rehab. We should be helping people with their combined mental illness and drug addiction instead of throwing them in cages. We really have to shift the conversation. We really have to help people, because we're looking in the wrong place and stopping the wrong things.

GUILFOYLE: Dual diagnosis.

PERINO: Jesse, your thoughts.

WATTERS: I mean, the epidemic of opioids is really the story of the swamp. I think 15 years ago these drug companies cam and told Congress these pills were not addicted -- addictive. So Congress fast-tracks the approval process, and now you have these distributors pumping these pills into mining towns, into towns in the industrial Midwest where people do backbreaking labor and get paid minimum wage, into towns where people have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan and are using the V.A.

So they don't really actually kill the pain. What they do is, they mask the pain. They're not treating the underlying problem. The underlying problem can be solved through operations, through physical therapy, through diet, through mental health therapy. But that doesn't profit companies. Companies make profits when people continue to be in pain. And that's why they continue to get addicted.

PERINO: And yet there is a problem. If Greg were here, he'd talk about people who actually are in pain that need access to it.

WATTERS: They do, but they don't need it like -- they don't need a million pills in a small town of 400 people.

PERINO: That's -- I would agree with that, obviously. I can even do that math.

OK. Next up, Jane Fonda, guess what? She's back at it, going anti- American yet again. You decide. We'll play it for you next.


KENNEDY: Oh, Jane. Jane Fonda still isn't feeling the love for her country. She's hating on the U.S. again.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you proud of America today?

JANE FONDA, ACTRESS/ACTIVIST: No, but I'm proud of the resistance. I am proud of the people who are turning out in unprecedented numbers and continue over and over and over again to protest what Trump is doing. I'm very proud of that to the core.


KENNEDY: Oh, dear lord. She's not proud of America, but she sure is proud she went to Vietnam to sit on an enemy's antiaircraft gun.


FONDA: I don't regret going to Vietnam. I am proud I went. It changed my life, all for the good. The thing that I regret is that on my last day there, I made the mistake of going to a ceremony at an antiaircraft gun. I sat down and laughing; and then I got up and, as I walked away, I realized, "Oh, my gosh. It's going to look like I am against my own country's soldiers and siding with the enemy." Which is the last thing in the world that was true.


KENNEDY: Wow. It seems as though she's apologized for her trip to the Vietnam in the past, Juan. But I guess you can take the commie out of Vietnam, but you can't take the commie out of the commie.

WILLIAMS: Wow. I'll leave that alone.

I will say, I think she made a terrible mistake. I mean, it wasn't a popular war. I think even to this day, most Americans have a very negative view of the Vietnam War. But I think it was the idea that she seemed to be anti-American soldier and even anti-U.S. in the course of that.

Now, she says she's proud of the resistance today. I don't think anybody would argue with that. But the resistance back then, I think, is something that she damaged by sitting in the cockpit of that North Vietnamese.

KENNEDY: Antiaircraft gun.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I mean, that's crazy.

KENNEDY: Used to shoot down American soldiers.

WILLIAMS: I don't know how you defend that.

KENNEDY: So is it possible to live in this country where there is political disagreement and still be proud of it, Jesse?

WATTERS: Well what did Michelle Obama say? "This is the first time in my life I've been proud to be an American"?

So I just think Jane Fonda's renaissance helps Donald Trump. I mean, he cannot get better foils. It's either Hillary or President Obama, Jane Fonda, Kathy Griffin. They keep coming up. And kneeling during the anthem, rioting. I mean, God, you cannot ask for better enemies. So as long as Jane is in the news, I think that's good.

But she did give aid and comfort to the enemy, and I do not believe her saying that she was upset that she was anti-American soldier or anti- American. She went on a Hanoi broadcast...


WATTERS: ... did a radio interview where she told vicious lies. America wanted to colonize Vietnam. American soldiers were deserting at record numbers. American officers were drunks. Nixon is a racist murderer. I mean, it's insane.

And to say that she's not a traitor or didn't give aid and comfort when I think her photo op prolonged the Vietnam War. It brought North Vietnam away from the negotiating table. When soldiers came back, POWs, Americans from North Vietnam, and they said that they were tortured, she called those soldiers liars and hypocrites.

So Jane has been wrong about so many things. She's wrong again.

PERINO: Well, for some reason...

KENNEDY: She makes my blood boil.

PERINO: I know.

KENNEDY: And I can't let go of the Vietnam thing and the fact that she has absolutely no contrition. It drives me insane.

PERINO: I mean, she only feels bad that it looked like -- that the self- aware -- that her image took a hit.


PERINO: Right.


PERINO: So -- but also, what's weird about that is that she's so self- aware about everything else in her life. Right? So that she seemed to have a momentary lapse and that was -- I think she's figured out that that's the best talking point to get her out of those interviews and those situations.

I also don't understand why somebody in that position doesn't try to lift America up. That whoever the president is, that's a temporary thing. In four or eight years, that -- any president is going to be a former president. So why can't you try to lift people and say, like, "Of course I'm proud of this country"? It doesn't matter who the president is.

KENNEDY: And we are strong enough as Americans.

PERINO: To make people feel worse about their country?

KENNEDY: And -- and you know what drives me crazy if we've had such a wonderful conversation about Vietnam with the Ken Burns -- Ken Burns documentary.


KENNEDY: Which I talked about. And the point of that documentary was to heal some of those wounds...


KENNEDY: ... which are still simmering instead of -- and I think that's a very positive step. I think what she's doing is incredibly negative and divisive. She reminds me of Hillary Clinton in the way she makes excuses.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, and she makes it about herself. I mean, it's really disgusting to even hear her talk about it again. Tell that to all the people who lost family members or for the -- those in the military that bravely served in Vietnam. She's trying to, like, make light of it, to say, oh, she didn't know she was making funny faces. Bull.

She knew what she was doing. She did that at the time. It was purposeful, and it's just inexcusable, because by the way, who did she think she was to go over there and pass judgment on those that were serving this country and upholding an oath? And for her to still talk about it now, it just brings open, you know, old wounds.

WILLIAMS: Well, don't pretend that it was an ideal war. I mean, obviously, the president at the time...

GUILFOYLE: I'm not saying it was ideal.

KENNEDY: Incredibly difficult.

WILLIAMS: The president at the time was -- was lying.

GUILFOYLE: Her behavior was horrible.

KENNEDY: She didn't make -- she didn't make a bad situation any better.

WILLIAMS: No, she sure didn't.

KENNEDY: That's for darn sure.

WILLIAMS: I agree with you.

KENNEDY: All right. A new fiery feud appears to be brewing between President Trump and Senator John McCain. That's coming up next. Stay with us.



SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: To refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth for the sake of some half-baked serious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats then solve problems, is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past.


WILLIAMS: John McCain caught a lot of people's attention last night with that remark while accepting the Liberty Medal in Philadelphia. Now, it's been interpreted as a jab at President Trump, and he certainly took it that way.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You heard what he said yesterday, Senator McCain.

TRUMP: Yes, well, I hear then people have to be careful, because at some point I fight back. You know, I'm being very nice. I'm being very, very nice. But at some point I fight back, and it won't be pretty.


WILLIAMS: That sure got his ire. So what does the senator think about the warning? FOX News caught up with him.


MCCAIN: I don't comment on what the president says. I comment on what he does, and I will say that I have -- I have faced some pretty tough adversaries in the past. I'm not interested in confronting the president. I'm interested in working with the president.


WILLIAMS: So Kimberly, the heart and soul of what Senator McCain was lamenting was that the United States had occupied a leadership role in the world for most of the last century, and he sees us as withdrawing in terms of climate accords, or the Iran deal or trade deals. What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: I guess that's what he thinks. I'm not sure exactly in terms of the comments that he just made. But I mean, I personally don't see it that way. I don't see it that we're withdrawing. I think we still maintain a strong leadership position in the world. People know they can count on the United States. No country is more generous in terms of times of tragedy or natural disasters, in terms of providing humanitarian relief around the world, providing military support in the face of brutal regimes and dictatorships.

So I see the United States still standing up and taking ownership for those situations.

As it relates to President Trump, yes, he has used, you know, themes of patriotism and uniting the country, and I guess if you have an idea about him that's one way or the other, you can kind of, like, say, "Well, this is what he means by that or this is what he means."

What I think he tries to under his campaign promises. He was elected, and he wants to do the things he promised the hardworking men and women. And one of those things was that he wouldn't do bad deals.

And he said from the beginning of the campaign that the Iran deal was a bad deal, and he said that the climate deal was a bad deal in terms of the large amount of money that the United States was having to proffer for it and, you know, getting kind of return on. So that I think is being consistent with what his campaign message was.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, it looked like -- and clearly, he's saying, you know, history has assigned to the ash heap this kind of what he called "half- baked nationalism." Populism.

WATTERS: Well, I love John McCain, but he can be a real pain to Republican presidents. I know Dana can agree. He was a little bit of a thorn in George W. Bush's side, voted against the Bush tax cuts, was very, I would say, irritating when it came to waterboarding for President Bush. The Iraq war, not always very supportive, but he helped, you know, turn that around with the surge support.

Listen. He's already sunk Obamacare repeal. He's probably going to vote against the Trump tax reform package.

I do like what he said, though. I like how he said, "I'm not going to comment on what Trump says. I'm going to comment on what Trump does." I wish a lot of senators would do that, including Bob Corker, including Senator Graham. I think that's good advice for a lot of Republican senators.

WILLIAMS: You know, Dana, what struck me, nationalism, especially after the Austrian elections this past weekend.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: After what we've seen happen in Germany, after Brexit. It seems to almost be global. And here you see Senator McCain almost in a valedictory, saying this is not the way the world should be going.

PERINO: Yes, and I think that when you give a speech like that, that Senator McCain did, you almost have to understand, like, what's going to happen in the morning. What are people going to take away from this? And if it requires further explanation, then you probably should have put more of that in your speech.

So when I interviewed Condi Rice last week at the Bush Center, she said she's concerned about the four horsemen of the apocalypse. And it's nationalism, populism -- two other "isms." But basically this whole thing that it's not necessarily just President Trump's campaign promises. It's that there's a global movement around the world to withdraw.

That might be better for the American interests when it comes to President Trump, but John McCain from where he comes from and based on his experience, he sees it differently. And he has never been shy about saying what he thinks.

WILLIAMS: Kennedy, do you see us as becoming isolationist under President Trump?

PERINO: That was the other one. Isolationism.

KENNEDY: Isolationism? No, I would love for us to be noninterventionist. You know, if that were actually the case, I would delight in that.

GUILFOYLE: She's a Libertarian.


But I think what Senator McCain was saying, I think it was more of a direct attack on Steve Bannon, who's coming after...

WILLIAMS: Good point.

KENNEDY: ... Republican senators like his counterpart in Arizona, Jeff Flake, who's very much in trouble. And I think senator McCain is on the defensive for some of the people that he serves with.

WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing," so much fun, up next.


WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: Forbes magazine out with a list of the 400 richest Americans. Well, bad news for the man from Trump Tower. The president's net worth dropped by $600 million.


WILLIAMS: Forbes says it's because of a tough New York real-estate market, a costly lawsuit and expensive presidential campaign.

GUILFOYLE: On being president.

WILLIAMS: One other reason he might be losing money is because 16 of 17 pro sports teams no longer staying at any of his hotels. Not only that, bit the coach of the San Antonio Spurs had this to say about our president: "The man in the Oval Office is a soulless coward who thinks that he can only become large by belittling others." Wow. So I guess Greg Popovich not so much a failing coach, but he won't be staying there either.

WATTERS: Wow. Uplifting, Juan.


PERINO: How about I turn it around for you, Jesse?

WATTERS: There you go.

PERINO: Want uplifting? So my favorite country music star, Dierks Bentley, joined me today on "The Daily Briefing," and we discussed an upcoming movie that comes out Friday. It's called "Only the Brave." And he -- well, that is a movie about the 19 firefighters -- you all remember that, when 19 firefighters were killed? They're hotshot firefighters in Arizona. They were trying to protect Phoenix, and they got surrounded by the fire. There was only one survivor.

And so he performed the song "Hold the Light" for the movie, and this is what he said.


DIERKS BENTLEY, COUNTRY MUSIC STAR: A guy named Joe Trapanese, who did the music for the movie, had already the melody started and the idea of hold the light in the darkness, to reach out there and look for the light, look for hope, and let me be part of. And I'm so thankful because I'm so, you know, just proud to be associated with this film.


PERINO: And our own FOX News Michael Tammero, he saw the movie and said it's amazing. And so everyone should check it out. And everyone's already talking about possible Oscar cred...

GUILFOYLE: Award buzz, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, already, K.G.

WATTERS: Kimberly knows the buzz. Speaking of, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I do, and here's the buzz. A fabulous new book out by our friend and one of our colleagues here, Ainsley Earhardt. She's already the author of one New York Times bestseller, "Take Heart, My Child." And now she has a brand-new book out called "Through Your Eyes: My Child's Gift to Me."

And some of you saw Ainsley on the show this morning, on "FOX & Friends." It was very sweet. And there's her beautiful baby girl, Hayden. I cannot believe two years has gone by. I was there with her in the hospital after Hayden was born. It was just an incredible moment, to see her joy.

Such a wonderful person. Babysitting, taking care of Ronan, making an Eastern bunny cake with him, and I knew she'd be an incredible mom. So I'm happy to see this, and she's sharing the joys of motherhood and having this beautiful baby in her life with all of us.

PERINO: And the illustrations are gorgeous.

GUILFOYLE: Phenomenal. Absolutely beautiful. Central Park and everything, where she spends time with Hayden. Very proud of her.

WATTERS: Beautiful. So many of you know, some don't. It is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and I am rocking some hot socks. Right there.


WATTERS: Hot pink socks, actually.


WATTERS: You can check those out.

KENNEDY: And they match!

WATTERS: Those are Thorlos socks. So if you buy these socks from Thorlos, they're going to donate one dollar for every pair...

GUILFOYLE: And your pink pen.

WATTERS: ... and my pink pen -- to the American Cancer Society. So go check those out.

KENNEDY: Fantastic. My mom is a three-time breast cancer survivor.


WATTERS: Amazing.

KENNEDY: She's a fighter.


KENNEDY: And she's bullish that there is going to be a cure.

Of course, speaking of bulls, there was a baby bull who went missing from a slaughter house in Brooklyn, went on a rampage, knocked down a one room (ph), got hit by a car on his way to Coney Island. All he wanted to do was ride the Cyclone and not become your porterhouse. Run baby bull, run. He was darted by cops, who took two hours to subdue him, and ten he was roped up and...

PERINO: So wait, how did he get...

GUILFOYLE: What happened to him?

WATTERS: Speaking of porterhouse, I think we're going to Del Frisco's soon.

KENNEDY: They need to build a wall at the slaughterhouse.

WATTERS: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: What is wrong with you?

WATTERS: "Special Report" is up next.

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