Sen. Johnson: We need to make sure that federal workers are paid

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Sen. Johnson: We need to make sure that federal workers are paid

Trump rejects plans by Sen. Lindsey Graham to reopen the government; Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson weighs in.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," January 14, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: You are looking at Barron, Wisconsin.

Very, very soon, we're going to get the details on this man accused of kidnapping 13-year-old Jayme Closs and then murdering her parents. That's set to be formally charged in a Wisconsin courtroom, as I said, in Barron, Wisconsin very shortly.

According to the criminal complaint, Jake Thomas Patterson decided to abduct this girl after spotting her getting on a school bus some months back. When that hearing begins, of course, we will take you there live.

In the meantime, continuing what has gotten to be the same old, same old in Washington, D.C., day 24 now in this record government shutdown, partial or otherwise, the president slamming Democrats for failing to deal with it and rejecting a Republican plan to stop it.

So we, naturally, are, as we have been, all over it.

Welcome, everybody. This is "Your World." And I'm Neil Cavuto.

In a moment, we're going to talk to Virginia Democratic Senator Mark Warner on the president saying the Democrats are the ones who need to lead to end this shutdown, then Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson, who says the government needs to pay essential workers hit by this shutdown.

But we begin first with John Roberts at the White House, where the president is trying to reassure everyone it'll all work out -- John.

(LAUGHTER)

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I think people need a little more reassuring today than they did last Friday, because nothing much has moved over the weekend.

One thing that is continuing to operate during the shutdown, Air Force One.  President Trump is on his way back to the White House after addressing the Farm Bureau at their annual convention in New Orleans earlier today, the president talking to the Farm Bureau members about things that you would expect a president would talk to farmers and ranchers about, but with the also a specific emphasis on the need for border security.

The president acknowledging that we need to let people in the United States. He recognized the need for farmers and ranchers to have a large pool of migrant workers available, but that the USA simply cannot absorb everyone who wants to come here for a better life. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The southern border has been horrible for decades. And it's now because of the success of our country.  It's now at a level that we cannot put up with.

The Democrats have to do something. We need to have votes. Otherwise, we can't solve it without their votes. They now control the House. Let's see if they can lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: The president has repeatedly reserved the possibility of declaring a national emergency to build a border wall. That would likely result in an immediate lawsuit that ties it up. And, at that point, the president would be out of options, so he's not exactly champing at the bit to pull that trigger.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not looking to call a natural emergency. This is so simple, you shouldn't have to.

Now, I have the absolute legal right to call it, but I'm not looking to do that, because this is too simple. The Democrats should say, we want border security. We have to build a wall. Otherwise, you can't have voter security. And we should get on with our lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Now, we could go to a lot of cliches about the president's got his heels dug in, he's not moving the ball down the playing field, the Democrats are doing the same thing, but the bottom line here is, Neil, there's no movement on either side here, and none of the typical signs of dealmaking are out there.

So I couldn't tell you when this thing is going to end, and I don't think anybody could give you a reasonable forecast as to when it's going to end.  So just buckle up and live through the ride. That's all we can do.

CAVUTO: And it could be a long ride, to your point. John Roberts, thank you very, very much, my friend.

Well, the president is already taking aim at Democrats for prolonging this shutdown longer than need be. California Democrat Congressman John Garamendi telling me on "Cavuto Live" this past weekend it's the Republicans who are to blame.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, D-CALIF.: Why wasn't it done in the previous two years? And why do we now hold the entire government of America hostage for a $5.7 billion wall?

We really need to reopen government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson with me now. Senator Johnson is chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.

Senator, thank you for joining us.

SEN. RON JOHNSON, R-WIS.: Hello, Neil. How you doing?

CAVUTO: I'm OK.

Democrats blaming Republicans, Republicans blaming Democrats. You have urged that, in the interim, at least, essential personnel be paid, right?

JOHNSON: Yes, I mean, it's only fair.

Washington, D.C., is dysfunctional enough. And it is just true we have essential personnel in these government agencies. We require them to work.  The least we can do is pay them. And so I have introduced the Shutdown Fairness Act that would pay about 420,000 federal government workers that are deemed essential.

They call it accepted, but I will use the term essential. And as long as they're working and trying to keep this nation safe, they should be paid.  It's a pretty simple concept. I already have six co-sponsors. Hopefully, with this broadcast, we will have a flood of co-sponsors, both Democrat and Republican.

Hopefully, Leader McConnell will bring to the floor, and the president will sign it. It's the least we can do.

CAVUTO: Has -- have you heard from the president, Senator, whether he supports this?

JOHNSON: I haven't spoken to the president. But I have certainly given heads-up to the White House in terms of what I'm trying to accomplish here.

Maybe this will break the logjam.

CAVUTO: All right.

Let me -- your colleague Lindsey Graham had suggested if there might be a good opportunity to vote for three weeks to reopen the government, and then, by that time, if nothing has really been made progress on, go ahead and declare emergency powers.

The president is so far reluctant to do that, dismissed the idea of a three-week reopening. How do you feel about it?

JOHNSON: Well, the problem is, Nancy Pelosi already told the president, if you open up the government, I'm still not going to give you dollar one for the border.

And, again, I'm highly concerned about using that national emergency power and authority, primarily because, if he uses it, it will be challenged in court, and we won't get the wall built. And, Neil, we do need better barriers. Walls work.

They free up CBP agents to be redeployed at the ports of entry, so we can try and capture some of the heroin coming to this country. We have to fix these laws. This is a growing problem. It's primarily a problem now of unaccompanied children from Central America and people coming to this country illegally in family units, because we incentivize it.

It's a growing problem. Just -- just quick quotations and numbers. In 2012, a little more than 11,000 people came into this country illegally and apprehended as a family unit. Last year, 107,000 people came as family units, first three months of this year 75,000 people.

So Democrats who are minimizing this problem, saying it's not a crisis, it's -- it was a humanitarian crisis during the Obama administration in 2014, when 120,000 people came in as UACs in family units. Last year, 145,000 people came in.

This is a growing crisis. President Trump is right. We need the bitter barriers. And the easiest way out of this is for Democrats, stop being hypocrites. You have supported better barriers in the past. You say you want a secure border. Give the president the minimal amount -- $5.7 billion out of a budget that's larger than four $4,100 billion, it's not even a rounding error.

That is the simplest solution. But it doesn't sound like Nancy Pelosi is open to that.

CAVUTO: But I notice there's far more common ground than either side lets on, Senator.

For example, the same Democrats who are opposing this wall or whatever the president wants to call it were on board allowing President Obama to do 136 miles of just that when he was president.

The same number of Republicans who were saying they want a wall now were open to alternatives to a wall back in prior administrations. So is it your sense that what changed the dynamics here was the president holding the government hostage to getting what he wanted, that had he not taken that leap, we wouldn't be here now?

JOHNSON: No.

What changed the dynamics, according to Democrats, the wrong person won in 2016. They just have never recognized President Trump as a legitimate president. They don't recognize the mandate he received.

CAVUTO: But they did support him early on legislation that addressed this same thing.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So, do you think by holding or attaching it to the government and its continued function, Senator, in retrospect -- it's easy to play Monday- morning quarterback, trust me -- that that might have been the signature wrong turn in this?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, President Trump has been very up front, saying he would never support another omnibus that didn't include barrier funding.

CAVUTO: Right.

JOHNSON: And Congress presented him with spending bills that didn't include it. So I understand his frustration.

But here's my frustration with Democrats who say they want a smart border.  All the technology does, it allows you to track, apprehend, process and then disperse. And that's what we're doing. We have catch and release.  We're just dispersing people in the interior.

If we don't detain people, and they don't have an asylum claim adjudicated as valid, we order them removed. Only 7 percent of those individuals actually get removed. But we can't detain them anymore because of different laws and legal precedents.

So we actually have to fix those laws, change those legal precedents, if we actually want to solve this problem. Democrats have seemingly been unwilling to solve this problem.

CAVUTO: Do you get a sense, Senator, that this drags on quite a while?

Now, so far, the polls show that a lot of Americans, most are blaming it on Republicans, although, to your point, that number has gone down a little bit. It's still tipping in favor of Republicans are getting the finger, and not so much Democrats. That, again, could and likely will change the longer this drags on.

But I have heard some raise the possibility it drags on for weeks, months.  What do you think?

JOHNSON: Both sides seem pretty dug in, which is one of the reasons I want to pay these individuals. That will take some of the pressure off Republicans.

Plus, the other thing, I have talked to the chairman of the subcommittees on the appropriation bills that are outstanding, asking them to take a look.

And I would love -- I would love to hear what a bare-bones budget would look like, some kind of partial measure here that will keep pressure on the Democrats, because, again, what's really odd about this debate is, I have never heard a Democrat not want to spend money in the federal government.  They just won't spend $5.7 billion because of this is President Trump's priority.

But if we open up -- if we pay these people, if we fund the essential parts of government, that will take the monkey off Republicans' back and put a little pressure on Democrats. Maybe they will come to the negotiating table in good faith.

CAVUTO: And do you have any Democrats interested in this, Senator, beyond the Republicans you mentioned?

JOHNSON: Well, again, we just -- we just completed the legislation, the language, over the weekend.

We're introducing it. We just introduced it today. Hopefully, when they hear about a very commonsense approach, a fair approach to paying these individuals, we should have every Democrat voting for this. This should be...

CAVUTO: All right.

JOHNSON: This should pass as easily as a measure that we passed last week that said, when the government shutdown ends, we will pay everybody. Why don't we pay them while they're working?

CAVUTO: Senator Johnson, thank you very much. Good catching up with you.

JOHNSON: Have a good day.

CAVUTO: Well to the senator's point, in the meantime, the shutdown does continue. The fallout and the effect is sweeping, including at these security lines at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson. That's America's busiest airport.

It echoes what we have seen in other airports across the country, where people could be waiting, all because the government isn't opening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, the longer it drags on, well, the longer some lines could be at the nation's airports.

These are some of them forming at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, where the government shutdown is starting to impact travelers, and not just there.

Jonathan Serrie at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson Airport with the very latest -- sir.

Jonathan, can you hear me, bud?

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, I think we're having some problems with my connection.

But in case we're on, take a look at the lines here right now. They're at manageable levels, but that's a far cry from what it was earlier today.

Take a look at this video from this morning, lines of passengers extended from the TSA checkpoint through the central atrium, basically a large food court in the middle of the airport, and into the baggage claim. And TSA staffing issues caused problems at other major airports around the country.

In Houston, the ticket counter and security checkpoint in Terminal B of George Bush Intercontinental Airport are closed. So, passengers departing out of Terminal B have to check in and go through screening in neighboring terminals, before working their way back to the B gates.

Over the weekend, Miami International Airport had to close its Concourse G.  The airport returned the concourse to normal operations today. Airport officials say they and the TSA will continue to monitor staffing levels at checkpoints and make adjustments as necessary.

Nationally, 7.6 percent of TSA employees have taken unscheduled absences today. That's more than double the unscheduled absence rate reported on Monday of the same week a year ago -- Neil, back to you.

CAVUTO: Jonathan, thank you very, very much.

So how much of a security risk are we really looking at here? Let's go to security expert Aaron Cohen.

Aaron, the longer this drags on, then what?

AARON COHEN, SECURITY EXPERT: Well, the longer drags on, the more inconvenient traveling is going to be for Americans on a macro level.

But one of the interesting things I saw, in looking at some of that footage that your reporter was giving us, is the massive crowds, Neil, that are now forming outside the sterile area. That's a terrorist target.

So the real security risk, in my opinion, is the fact that you're in harm's way before you have even gone through security, because any idiot can now walk up to that crowd and detonate an explosive or open fire on those crowds.

And so it's a massive security threat as far as the congestion being created by those crowds due to the lack of screeners.

CAVUTO: I wonder, because we had sick-outs in Miami International Airport, I don't know to the same degree in Atlanta, where a lot of workers, TSA workers, not getting paid end up not coming to work.

They're few and far between, I should stress. And it's hardly the norm, but the fewer show up, the longer the lines. And I'm wondering, the longer this plays out, the more problematic the security.

What do you do if you're a traveler?

COHEN: You delay your travels, unless it's obviously a trip that needs to be taken, if it's a business trip or an emergency or something that's been pre-planned for a while.

And I would stay off the planes. I wouldn't be flying with that mess right there. I don't know if LAX out here is as bad as Miami and Texas is or Houston was in those shots. But traveling is just a nightmare in general right now. And the fact that we have additional security in the last 10 years has been -- has been annoying.

But now, with these bundles of lines, and the fact that we're losing, what is it, an eighth or a fourth or a sixth of the actual screeners -- and you know me, Neil. I never thought the TSA was that great anyways. I have always pushed behavioral profiling and I have said, hey, we should be handing this thing or looking to hand this thing over the FBI, and get this behavioral screening in place.

CAVUTO: Right.

COHEN: Because stop looking for weapons. Let's start looking for red flag indicators based on behavior.

But it is what it is until it gets fixed. But the fact is, it's a nightmare. And nobody wants to travel and have to go through this headache.

And we need to come to some type of solution to be able to ease this pressure, because it's just -- it's extremely annoying and unbearable.  That's where I come out.

CAVUTO: To put it mildly, Aaron. Thank you very, very much.

COHEN: To put it mildly, yes. Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, in the meantime, working for Russia, just think of that, people asking the president of the United States whether he was working for the Russians.

He, of course, is saying no, but it's ridiculous. But where do we stand on this entire back and forth and the president's alleged ties to Russia and Russian players and Vladimir Putin? Is that true? Or is that right?

Virginia Democrat Mark Warner on what worries him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I never worked for Russia.

Not only did I never work for Russia. I think it's a disgrace that you even ask that question, because it's a whole big, fat hoax. It's just a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, just the question itself and the president having to respond to it says something about the times in which we live, the president dismissing that New York Times report that the FBI was looking into the possibility the president of the United States was working essentially as a Russian agent.

Let's talk to Virginia Democratic Senator, the vice chair of the Intelligence Committee there, Mark Warner.

Senator, good to have you.

SEN. MARK WARNER, D-VA.: Hey, thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: Now, much has been made of the fact that the president, of course, with these private Putin conversations, instructed his interpreter to hand him over the notes of the translations, to not share them with anyone.

That raised concerns for you, right?

WARNER: Well, it did, Neil, because, I mean, the president's got the right to meet with other world leaders one-on-one.

But in traditional -- at least traditionally, presidents want to make sure that at least their top advisers get a full readout. And if you have got a one-on-one meeting, you would think you would want your secretary of defense, your vice president, your top leaders to get a look at some of the notes that the interpreter may have taken.

That -- that raises some questions. It also raises questions. Again, I know the president likes to dismiss the Mueller investigation, but there's been over 30 indictments. There's been seven folks that have pled guilty.

And there were questions raised, not just by our committee, but by an awful lot of folks from both parties, that wondered why Donald Trump throughout the whole campaign, who was willing to criticize virtually every other -- every other world leader and, for that matter, Republicans and Democrats alike, the one guy he wouldn't criticize was Vladimir Putin.

And then we had this meeting where the president and Putin were together in Helsinki. And I -- Neil, I got to tell you, I was embarrassed for our country, the way that Trump seemed to kowtow to the Russian leader there in Helsinki.

CAVUTO: Senator, on that issue -- and not to interrupt you there.

WARNER: Yes, sir.

CAVUTO: But the president had said -- and you can't blame him if this is the case -- that, soon after he became president, phone conversations he had with world leaders, including those of Australia and others, Russian ministers, had suddenly leaked out.

So he might have been unusually concerned that such conversations were going to be leaked out, this one included, and so, out of an abundance of caution, not to tell anyone because you're suspicious of everyone.

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: Well, again, that would make me -- if I was running that kind of operation, I would look at my folks who are around me and try to get rid of the folks who are leaking.

CAVUTO: Well, we don't know. When you don't know, you don't know, and a lot of people have left since, right?

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: Right.

But I guess, Neil, what I would say, though, is, why wouldn't the president of the United States want to share at least with his closest advisers what he's saying with someone who I think most Americans would agree is a rival, if not an adversary, in the form of Vladimir Putin, particularly since we now have bipartisan consensus, at least from the Intelligence Committee, that Russians and Russian agents tried to interfere in the 2016 election, in an effort to help Trump and hurt Clinton?

That much at least has been pretty well-established.

CAVUTO: But if you think that through, right, Senator...

WARNER: Yes, sir.

CAVUTO: ... if we were in the tank for Vladimir Putin, he wouldn't have ticked off Putin to the degree he did on a number of key decisions, including actions we took in the Middle East, the Syria withdrawal notwithstanding...

WARNER: Well, I...

CAVUTO: ... but, more to the point, when lecturing them on OPEC and production levels and telling them not to do this, and alienating himself, especially with the Ukrainian dust-up, and with the Russians to force them to cease and desist.

So, it's not as if he -- if that is the action of someone beholden to the Russians, he's -- he's spiked it sometimes, right?

WARNER: Well, Neil, I guess I would simply say, if you look at most of the sanctions have been put in place, they were put in place by Congress, not by the Trump administration.

I still think it would be hard for me to find an example where Donald Trump has actually said a bad word about Vladimir Putin. Lord knows he's said a bad word about everybody else in the world. And he's ecumenical, even in terms of American politics, in terms of saying things about Democrats or Republicans.

CAVUTO: But you really have to follow his actions. Let's say he hasn't said a bad word. And he had said some nasty stuff to him now and then, but, I mean...

WARNER: Well...

CAVUTO: But if he were beholden to the guy, he wouldn't do things that -- that infuriated the Russians, particularly speaking out the way did on Ukraine, et cetera.

Now, you're quite right. Now, that could just be cover or whatever.

WARNER: I'm not...

CAVUTO: But is it your sense, with the Mueller investigation, that you talk about indictments and all of that have been made, most of them having to do more with business dealings than outright collusion.

WARNER: Well...

CAVUTO: Is it your sense that that Mueller investigation in the end will be more about those business dealings than anything having to do with Russia? Obviously, investigations soon follow their own route. Bill Clinton's did.

So I'm wondering what you think will ultimately be that Mueller probe finding.

WARNER: I can tell you what -- what we have found, I mean, and some of this, we have already become public with.

Russians intervened. They used social media in massive ways. They hacked into our not-very-safe electoral systems. I think we have gotten better on a series of those fronts.

But it was a foreign government interfering in our political process to help one candidate and harm another. I think there is an extra high scrutiny, then, that is going to -- this president or any president who receives such kind of assistance is going to be under.

And if Donald Trump says that all -- there's no there there, then go ahead and let them the Mueller investigation finish, run its course. Frankly, if Mr. Trump wasn't out tweeting every day about the Mueller investigation, or virtually every day, chances are, it would have already been finished.

CAVUTO: Well, we will never know that, will we?

But let me get your sense, Senator, about the ongoing shutdown...

WARNER: Sure.

CAVUTO: ... now in its 24th day.

A number on both parties have looked at ways to improve this. We talked to your colleague from Wisconsin, Republican Senator Johnson, who wants to rehire or pay those deemed to be important and consequential federal workers who are right now laid off, about half of them, I believe.

How do you feel about that?

WARNER: I think we ought to get the government reopened.

And, listen, I'm for increased border security. I think we ought to determine how that money is best spent. But the thing I have -- I have started looking at it is, Donald Trump said he was a great dealmaker.

My -- Neil, as you know, I was in business longer than politics. I was then governor of a state that was -- I had a 2-1 Republican legislature.  But we got stuff done.

I actually think, when people -- when business schools or management consultants will look back on the way Trump has dealt with this shutdown, it's going to be a case study on how not to negotiate.

I mean, rule number one...

CAVUTO: But for your party as well, Senator?

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: Oh, listen, I think -- I think there needs to be giving on both.

But let me just go through really quickly.

CAVUTO: Real quick.

WARNER: If you're trying to do a deal, you try to make both sides come out win-win. There's none of that.

You try to make sure that, if you empower folks to negotiate for you, you don't chop their knees off, the way he did with the vice president, with Lindsey Graham and others.

Third thing is, you try to make sure you have got people who are going to tell you truth to power. And he doesn't have anybody in the White House.

And, finally, if you're running an organization...

CAVUTO: You could say the same about the Democrats, though, right?

WARNER: And if you're running an organization, and you want your work force to go through this, you don't leave your work force hanging out to dry, the way he has.

I actually think, again, we don't know how this is all going to play out, but I think business schools will write case studies about how not to negotiate the way Mr. Trump has done.

CAVUTO: But I guess it could work both ways, because I do see it, plenty of fault to go on both sides here, to your point, Senator.

But I do remember -- I don't know how you voted on this, so I apologize -- but I do know that a number of Democrats supported wall-building and that kind of activity, 136 miles' worth, during the Barack Obama administration.

So I'm wondering whether they get their -- throw up their arms in a fit, whether that's just theater and nothing to do with reality.

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: I wasn't here when that vote took place.

But what I would say is...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, a lot of your colleagues who are ranting and raving were.  You know it sounds weird, right?

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: But here's here's what I would say is, we need to spend more money on border security. I'm all in for that.

I think what happened was, they built borders and barriers in the highest populated areas, where it was the most needed. But technology has changed even since then.

I would...

CAVUTO: All right.

WARNER: Listen, if we could agree on a set amount and then let's say, let's leave it to the experts to decide how we can best secure our borders, I think we could -- both sides get to yes.

CAVUTO: Senator Warner, thank you for taking the time. We do appreciate it, sir.

WARNER: Thank you, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, I want to take you right now to Barron, Wisconsin, where the hearing for Jake Thomas Patterson, the man charged with abducting Jayme Closs, is about to begin.

They want to know exactly the timing of these events. He is already likely to be charged on two counts of murder and one count of kidnapping. Let's take you to Wisconsin.

All right, we are waiting to hear from the judge on this.

At issue here is, the man suspected of kidnapping Wisconsin teenager Denise Closs is now being arraigned in court here. At issue as well is, besides outlining the charges against him, two counts of murder and one for kidnapping, how it is he happened upon Denise Closs and making her his target.

We're told, after seeing her get off a bus, that he was first interested in abducting her. We do not know why last October he chose to kill her parents, storming through the door to make good on that, and to abduct her.  Of course, she spent the better part of 85 days holed up in his cabin, before she managed to escape.

And a nearby neighbor recognized her immediately. And she's OK. But they don't know the sequence of events, what led to her being targeted and, really where this is all going.

Former a Washington, D.C. police detective, FOX News contributor Ted Williams.

So much we don't know, in fact, why she was targeted and why her parents were killed, right?

TED WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, all I can tell you, Neil, is a great deal that we have now been able to learn through charging documents.

It appears as though Jake Patterson saw this girl getting on a school bus and decided that he wanted to kidnap her. He wound up shaving his head or changing his license plates, modifying his car, taking a shotgun, and using gloves.

And what we know from those charging documents, Neil, is that he went to that home, took a shotgun, blew the door down, went in, shot the father first. The mother and Jayme hid in the bathroom. He broke the door of the bathroom down, according to these charging documents.

And he wound up killing the mother, taking the child out, dragging her out of that home, taking her 66 miles down the road to his cabin. He kept up there for 88 days. He would hide her when relatives and friends would come to visit. He would hide under the bed and other places in the house.

This was a cold, cold-blooded killing, Neil. There is no other way to make out about this. This is so tragic.

CAVUTO: Do we know, though, Ted? Do we know -- and I might have misstated.

Obviously, the assailant, Patterson, allegedly broke into James and Denise Closs' home, her parents. And I'm wondering. A lot of people have looked at that and tried to say, did he know the parents? Was there any connection that we knew of the parents? Or did he know Jayme at all?

WILLIAMS: Well, Neil, there is only one connection that I'm cognizant of.

And that is that he worked at a plant that the parents worked at for one day. So, from what I understand, he absolutely didn't really know them.  He targeted this girl. He stalked Jayme. He watched Jayme.

And Jayme -- on two separate occasions, he thought about going in there, according to the charging documents. And he didn't go in because there were other people around. He planned this. This is what you call first- degree murder. If there's ever a case, Neil, that calls out for the death penalty, it's this one.

The unfortunate thing is, in Wisconsin, the death penalty has been abolished. It was abolished in the 1800s, as a matter of fact.

CAVUTO: But let me ask you, Ted.

The one thing that just doesn't add up to me is the distance between Patterson's home and the Closses' home and what triggered the interest in this particular girl, and then the connection that he might have had to the parents, James and Denise, because there was another time he apparently scoped out the property, opted not to go in because there were a number of people there.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CAVUTO: So, a lot of unanswered questions.

WILLIAMS: Well, there are quite a few unanswered questions.

But I think that the authorities are certainly on a good road right now to getting a lot of the answers. We now clearly have learned the motive. And the motive was his attraction for this young girl when he saw her getting on a bus.

It is my understanding, on that occasion, he was on his way to work. He was stopped behind this school bus. He watched Jayme get on. And at that stage, he had this fixation on her. And he made a determination that he was going to kidnap this young child.

CAVUTO: Yes.

If you can stay there, Ted, I want to bring our reporter Matt Finn into this just to bring -- update you on what you're watching out of Barron, Wisconsin.

The suspect in the Jayme Closs kidnapping, he is appearing in court, first time, formally charged with two counts of first-degree murder, one count of kidnapping. Again, this is happening in the Barron County Circuit Court in Barron, Wisconsin.

Matt Finn, maybe fill us in on some other things?

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Neil, right now, we have a producer inside of the courtroom who will update us as they can.

We're standing outside of that courtroom because we expect an immediate press conference from the district attorney after the initial appearance today.

And just a lot of very disturbing details coming out of this case today.  The criminal complaint indicates that Jake Patterson targeted the Closses, that he blasted through the front door with a shotgun. He killed James Closs in the doorway, and then walked through that home, trying to find Jayme Closs.

He found Jayme Closs and her mother, Denise, hiding in a bathtub. He first asked Denise to tape her mouth. Denise complied. And then he shot Denise Closs in cold blood dead in front of Jayme Closs.

He taped up Jayme Closs, this 13-year-old girl, put her in his trunk and drove roughly 70 miles north to Gordon, Wisconsin. The criminal complaint indicates that the suspect, Patterson, worked at a nearby cheese factory for just two days.

And on one of those mornings, he was driving behind a school bus on Highway 8, and he saw Jayme Closs getting onto that bus. And he said at that moment he knew that was the girl that he wanted to kidnap. And he went to great lengths to do so.

The criminal complaint, a portion of that reads -- and we could pull up a quote from that complaint. It says: "JLC," which is Jayme, "stated that she heard a gunshot and knew her father had just been killed. Jayme seated that her mother had her cell phone with her and used the phone to call 911.  JLC stated Patterson broke down the bathroom door and told her mother to hang up the phone."

"JLC," which is Jayme, "stated Patterson told her mother to put tape over JLC's mouth, which her mother did, and then Patterson shot her mother."

The criminal complaint goes to great detail describing the lengths that this man went to carry out this crime. He says he used a Mossberg shotgun because it is heavily manufactured and owned. And he used that in an effort to be -- avoid being detected.

Patterson also stole license plates from someone else's car and switched them out on his car on the night of October 15. Patterson shaved his head and face and put on a black ski mask to avoid leaving behind DNA-laced hair at the crime scene.

And police say, for nearly three months, Patterson made Jayme hide underneath his bed whenever there were guests in his house. He placed laundry baskets up against the base of the bed and put weight in those baskets, A, to hide her, and, B, to make it more difficult for her to get out from underneath the bed.

He would shut the door and play music inside of the room to muffle any sound that Jayme may make. And Jayme told police that she was extremely afraid to make a run for it, because Patterson, the suspect, told her that something very bad would happen her if she tried to escape or if she made any noise.

And she said at one point she moved one of those laundry baskets at the base of the bed, and he hit her, physically hit her.

CAVUTO: All right, Matt.

All right, they have apparently -- they have solved this connection problem with the prison where Patterson is staying. Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAVUTO: All right, there you have it.

Right now, Jake Patterson, the suspect in the Jayme Closs kidnapping, is already looking at facing two counts of first-degree murder, one count of kidnapping. He's also facing a very bail, a $5 million bail.

The defense lawyer is accepting that, as well as no contact with -- or Jake Patterson should have no contact with Jayme Closs or the family holding her right now, letting them live with her right now, and an aunt, I believe.

But the fact of the matter is that he is going to be sitting and stewing in jail when he waits for the next hearing, which is going to be sometime in February.

We have got FOX News contributor Ted Williams with us.

This is not unusual to have such a high bail, amid flight risk concerns and given the severity of the charges and the crime involved, right, Ted?

WILLIAMS: You're absolutely right, Neil.

It is a high bail. What we're looking here is in the eyes of a cold- blooded killer. One of the things that I was taken aback by -- and I thought that his lawyers, meaning Patterson's lawyers, would have asked for some kind of a psychological evaluation, because, quite naturally, what they are probably going to use at some stage is the insanity defense.

But what I am hoping, Neil, is that, at some stage, this guy will plead guilty and not put Jayme through a full-blown trial. This child has suffered psychologically after having been with this alleged cold-blooded killer for 88 days.

CAVUTO: You know, what is amazing in this, Ted, is the fact that he was really looking to get her, and on two other occasions had thought about it, on one occasion, a week before the actual kidnapping and killings, he had cased out her home

There were too many people there, so he thought better of it and would return only a few days later, cased out the home again, saw a number of people there, maybe not as much as the first time, held off, until, finally, on October 15 of last year, making his move.

Now, there's little in his record -- in fact, there is no criminal record, from what we understand. Social media history, again, we don't know of anything that stood out. But this gets to be a tough nut to crack in that sense, right?

WILLIAMS: It absolutely does, Neil. And you're accurate about that.

I think the fact that he tried to clean the shotgun down, tried to change his appearance, modified his automobile, he did all of these things, the premeditation, deliberation and malice of forethought, all of the things that are necessary for first-degree murder, are actually there.

Again, I'm being redundant when I say the sad commentary is, to me, this is a case that calls out for the death penalty. And, unfortunately, in the state of Wisconsin, the death penalty was abolished in the 1800s.

CAVUTO: Right.

All right, thank you, Ted, very much. Appreciate your expertise on this.

As Ted pointed out, if found guilty on these charges, at the very least, he spends the rest of his life in prison.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, markets were down today, although not as much you would think, as an ongoing shutdown continues to unnerve, you would think, investors here, but, again, not to the degree you would think, because we're still up in January.

So it could be the prolonged effect of this and the reality that this is the kind of thing that delays initial public offerings, it could also have an effect on the economy itself -- Mark Zandi, for example, over at Moody's, the ratings agency, was talking about the economic impact of this that could shave a little bit off first-quarter GDP.

Now, typically, that is made up for in future quarters once the government resumes operations.

But let's get the read from the Capitalistpig.com's Jonathan Hoenig, Seventh Capital's Monica Mehta, and Mayflower Advisors' Larry Glazer.

Monica, so far, on the consumer front, we're not seeing this having one effect or another. But, again, the read you got from some folks is that it could, if it drags on. Are you in that camp?

MONICA MEHTA, FINANCE EXPERT: Yes, absolutely, because it's not just the 720,000 employees that are furloughed.

It's the small businesses that cater to all of these government markets.  It's people who are counting on SBA loans. It's large companies that are waiting for regulatory approvals. The longer this drags out, it becomes a much bigger problem for the economy.

And we're not in the same shape that we were this time last year. There's a lot of new risk factors, including trade war with China, oil prices. Oil prices are actually a bit of a net negative for the U.S. economy, because so many big companies in America actually make their profits from oil.

So it's a complicated situation. And this is one risk factor we'd love to take off the table.

CAVUTO: Jonathan Hoenig, does this enter your equation when you make a market hunch or a bet?

JONATHAN HOENIG, PORTFOLIO MANAGER, CAPITALISTPIG ASSET MANAGEMENT: Well, Neil, I mean, it's certainly one factor.

And there's -- as Monica pointed out, there's just innumerable factors now facing investors. The shutdown is one, the trade -- the trade war. We have seen a number of warnings from major U.S. companies, and just a global slowdown, higher interest rates.

So, yes, it's one factor. But, more than anything, I simply look at price action. And I'll tell you, Neil, the bulls have really been trying to make a stand here. Today, we saw 21 new 52-week highs, 28 new 52-week low, so still more new lows than highs.

But that ratio has been much closer than we see in the last couple months.  So, again, bulls are really trying to make a stand here. But what is going to be the next leadership? Is it going to be financials? Is it going to be international stocks? Is it going to be pharmaceuticals?

And just yet, there's really no clear indication about where that growth in 2019 is going to come.

CAVUTO: You know, Larry, I know both parties are trying to make moves to try to say, it's not our fault, it's the other guys' fault. And already we heard what Republican Senator Johnson of Wisconsin offer a plan to pay at least half the federal workers who are deemed essential, I guess, to mitigate the damage.

But I'm wondering, in the scheme of things, and maybe because we get so used to these things, it might be a commentary on our times, but this is a collective shrug most folks are giving this.

What do you think?

LARRY GLAZER, MAYFLOWER ADVISORS: Well, Neil, look, there's no doubt this is not Wall Street's first rodeo with a shutdown.

And, normally, Wall Street investors don't get too concerned when it comes to shutdowns, because we have seen this before, we have gotten through it.  And, normally, shutdowns don't have much of an economic impact.

But, Neil, this may not be your grandfather's shutdown. This may be a little different. We love records, right?

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Grandfathers? I would settle for cousin, I mean, but go ahead.

(LAUGHTER)

GLAZER: Look, we love records, right? We love the record bull run. We love record low unemployment.

We don't like the record of the record-long shutdown. That's where it starts to affect what Wall Street feels close to home. Look, the capitalist system is in jeopardy when companies can't go public. You can't visit a company if the TSA isn't fully staffed. You can't trade commodities if the Department of Agriculture isn't giving you data.

So that's where it becomes a concern.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: That's where it gets to be a pain in the neck factor, right? Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

HOENIG: Yes.

GLAZER: What has me really worried is that companies start to use this as an excuse. We should ban the word shutdown in earnings forecasts. You can't use shutdown and you can't use China.

CAVUTO: Well, you're right about that.

Monica, what I worry about, though, it is going to give a lot of companies, retailers among them, maybe pause, right, and then to say, all right, whatever commitments we're making -- I think even former Fed Chairman Janet Yellen had raised this possibility -- where they sort of hedge their bets and don't make any big commitments of cash, because they don't know.

MEHTA: Yes, absolutely.

And I think so now the consensus is that we're not going to see a rate rise in 2019, and there's a 30 percent chance that we may actually see a rate cut. I mean, I think this is the reason why people hate Congress, regardless of who's in charge, because they just don't get things done.

And it's -- that's a bipartisan sentiment. We would never accept this kind of behavior from any other aspect of business, home. You know, you just can't throw your hands up in the air and say, I'm not gonna.

So, hopefully, they will sort this out.

CAVUTO: Jonathan, I mean, we look at this. A lot of people are paying attention, I know, to the prospects of a trade deal with China, maybe sooner rather than later.

If that doesn't materialize -- and we got some evidence today that the Chinese are surviving through this -- they had a record trade surplus with us last year -- it was up 17 percent -- in a weird way, are we getting it wrong, that China might be in better shape on this then we give them credit for?

HOENIG: Well, China -- China, Neil, has certainly been hurt by the trade war.

But, I mean, innumerable U.S. companies have also been hurt quite dramatically by the trade war. We just heard from Apple. What, a week ago, that stock was pretty severely. Lots of companies, we have heard about prospective job cuts as a result of the trade war.

So, trade, we always talk about as win-win. And the trade war, which investors have been, I think, a little bit of fool me once, fool me twice, because we have been told that this trade war is just wrapping up, on the way to being wrapping up time and time again, yet it's costing American companies literally billions of dollars month after month, and at this point, still no end in sight.

CAVUTO: Guys, I want to thank you all very, very much. We're watching it very, very closely.

And, to that, we're in the middle of earnings season. So that's something else we're going to follow here. Remember, it was a year ago when we were getting the first-quarter numbers or the -- coming from the fourth quarter.  We were seeing earnings growing at a 25 percent clip.

This time, they are ratcheted down to about a 5 to 7 percent earnings jump, again, nothing like it was, but can you imagine not meeting those estimates?

That's the kind of thing that will dominate the corner of Wall and Broad's attention, as it will ours. We will get you, and we will cover you, and we will be there for you.

"The Five" now. 
 
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