Rev. Graham: 'Christianity Today' is way off target, very left-wing magazine now

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," December 23, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Raymond Arroyo, guest host: I'm Raymond Arroyo in for Laura Ingraham. This is "The Ingraham Angle" from New York City tonight on this Christmas Eve-eve.

Nancy Pelosi's doubling down and refusing to send articles of impeachment to the Senate. Now there are new questions on just how long she can actually do this. Our all-star legal panel is here on that. Plus, I hit the streets to find out what Americans really think about impeachment. The answers might surprise you and AOC must not have cracked open a history book. She says the U.S. is a fascist country. The hot debate coming up and nearly 200 evangelical leaders are hitting back at the editor in chief of Christianity Today for urging the president's removal from office. We speak exclusively with Franklin Graham's whose father Billy Graham founded the now left of center magazine. And stay until the end of the show. Victor Davis Hanson is here on Trump's historic remaking of the federal court that has blocked so many of his policies. But first, Trump and Pelosi play Kris Kringle. As the year ends the president has delivered some major gifts to the American people. Whatever you might think of him politically or otherwise, the objective record is rather amazing. The president's policies have created an economy with the lowest unemployment in 50 years and the lowest levels of unemployment for Hispanics, African Americans, and women in more than half a century.


President Donald Trump: The economy is booming. Wages are rising. Crime is falling. Poverty is plummeting. Confidence is soaring and America is stronger than ever before. It's true.



Raymond Arroyo: Now, that is certainly a huge gift for all Americans.


Male Speaker: The great jobs number has let this market go from shrugs to hugs.

Female Speaker: This blows away expectations.

Male Speaker: This is the best number I've ever seen in my life.


Raymond Arroyo: Trump was also able to negotiate a free trade deal with Canada and Mexico, one that many said he would never get off the ground. Last week the House passed the USMCA, a remarkable gift to the American worker, one that both parties agree will make a huge difference in protecting the American market and U.S. industries.


Male Speaker: It's the biggest legislative achievement that President Trump will have had since Democrats took over the House of Representatives a year ago and that is notable. He's been working for this for some time and has been stymied and now you're seeing the House Democrats come to the table and accept this compromise trade deal on the USMCA.


Raymond Arroyo: I'll say. On the immigration front this year saw some of the highest levels of migrants at the southern border in more than a decade, but also the swiftest decline. The Los Angeles Times reports, "After countless promises and attempts to restrict immigration, 2019 may be remembered as the year in which President Trump got closest to fulfilling his central campaign pledge." In January, the president implemented a new policy requiring asylum seekers to make their requests and await court hearings in Mexico. He also got Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to do more to stem the flow of illegal migrants. That, coupled with the emergency declaration that allowed the president to redirect billions of military funds to the construction of his wall, went a long way to controlling immigration at the southern border.

The other big gift the president gave the American people was negotiating the first phase trade deal with China. Even his critics have to admit Trump is the first candidate in decades who called attention to China's trade abuses and moved to protect American manufacturers and intellectual property. But probably the longest-reaching gift Trump brought Americans this year are the 102 federal judges that he appointed, all of whom were approved by the Senate this year. Over the course of his administration, that total jumps to 187, including two Supreme Court justices. We'll discuss this with Victor Davis Hanson later in the show. But by any measure, the president has delivered in a big way in 2019. Now, Nancy Pelosi brought a gift of her own to the American people and the president this Christmas, one she labored over all year through.


Nancy Pelosi: None of us came to Congress to impeach a president. We do have to honor our oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.


Raymond Arroyo: Pelosi and her caucus have been focused on impeaching the president for the better part of a year. Once the Mueller probe sputtered, with the special counsel unable to find any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, Pelosi moved on to the Ukrainian call. Democrats fast-tracked impeachment and voted along party lines to support two articles. Now, here's the surprise. Unexpectedly, the impeachment has unified Republicans, lost Pelosi a member of her caucus, who flipped to join the GOP, and Trump's approval numbers are up from earlier this year. That's the thing about Christmas gifts. Sometimes they surprise even the giver. Merry Christmas. Joining me now to discuss the latest on this impeachment drama and where it goes from here is Robert Ray, former Whitewater independent counsel; Guy Lewis, former U.S. Attorney; and David Rivkin, constitutional law attorney. Gentlemen, the big news of the day; Democrats are teasing additional impeachment articles if former White House counsel Don McGahn testifies. Now, the House Judiciary Committee lawyers told the court, quote, "McGahn's testimony is also relevant to the committee's ongoing investigations into presidential misconduct and consideration of whether to recommend additional articles of impeachment." Robert, does this mean that they're going to try to revive the Mueller report? Have we heard the end of Mueller?

Robert Ray: I don't think so, but I think that's probably a battle that is to be fought many, many months down the road. January 3rd is the date the D.C. Circuit, an intermediate-level appellate court, will hear issues relative to McGahn's prior testimony, which is grand-jury information, and also about whether or not the House can compel his testimony over an objection asserting executive privilege. And no matter who wins or loses that case, the loser is going to probably file a petition for review in the Supreme Court of the United States, which is not likely, by the way, to be decided before the end of the Supreme Court's term at the end of June. So, I don't know how that would ever be ripe to be reopened now.

Raymond Arroyo: Wow. Guy, the DOJ told the court that their ruling was no longer justified since the president has already been impeached. Were you surprised that they're even begging McGahn to testify at this point?

Guy Lewis: I'm not surprised, Raymond, because, look, he was the White House counselor. Frankly, I think they made a huge mistake by not following through with the logical, normal process of trying to get his testimony, and now, by hinting that they should have, it just makes the whole process and the whole conclusion of impeachment even weaker, in my view.

Raymond Arroyo: Gentlemen, I asked people on the streets of New York City what they thought -- we're going to get into this now -- what did they think of Nancy Pelosi's latest move. Take a look.


Raymond Arroyo: What do you make of Pelosi withholding the articles of impeachment and not sending them to the Senate? Good idea?

Female Speaker: She's just trying to get the upper hand. That's all she's trying to do.

Female Speaker: Well, as you know, she does not know what to do [unintelligible].

Male Speaker: If she was sure about it, she would have sent it right ahead.

Female Speaker: He's not impeached. He's not impeached.

Female Speaker: I think she's a crazy old woman [LAUGHS].


Raymond Arroyo: David, it looks like people aren't really buying this delay. Could McConnell simply ignore this entire failure to communicate with the Senate and proceed to an acquittal? Could he do that?

David Rivkin: Not only he can do that, he should do that if Pelosi does not move the articles in the next, say, couple weeks and appoint the House managers. Let me explain. The House has the sole power of impeachment, and the Senate has the sole power to conduct an impeachment trial. Once an impeachment has been completed in the House, and it has been so completed -- the vote on the two articles -- the Senate has the constitutional duty to conduct an impeachment trial. Now, I'm not saying it has to do it within two days or two weeks, but it has to be within a reasonable time. It cannot be that the House can block the Senate from discharging its constitutional duty, and by the way, the House has nothing to say about what procedures the Senate should follow in conducting this trial. This is entirely for the Senate's sole [unintelligible], and [unintelligible] inadequacies in the Senate procedures are not justified. And in any way, she cannot possibly do that. So, let me say this. If she does not move the articles, the Senate should conduct a trial on its own. The Majority Leader should tell this to the House. He basically would have two options. He can either say, "Look, you're the prosecutors. You have the burden of production. You failed to bring it forward; you're not defending your own case. You lose by default." The other option, which I think would be more attractive, is for the Senate to appoint impeachment managers, outside counsel basically carrying the House's water. I think that would be probably more attractive.

Raymond Arroyo: Okay, I want to go back to Robert. Robert, your thoughts on this? Pelosi clearly thought she would squeeze some leverage out of this maneuver and somehow compel Mitch McConnell to create a trial to her liking, or at least present the witnesses that they've been begging for. Did she get this out of this move?

Robert Ray: Raymond, I don't think so. I mean, I don't really think that Speaker Pelosi, despite what she may think, has any leverage over the United States Senate. I agree with the general proposition that what the House has done is what it has done. The physical paper that would be the articles really is administerial action. The problem is the Senate rules, and I think Mitch McConnell -- you know, he knows the rules, and the rules at present don't allow him to go forward without the articles. So, I think the only solution would be, if the Republicans want to press this, and Nancy Pelosi withholds the articles, they could, with a 51-vote majority, just vote to change the rules.

Raymond Arroyo: Guy, they told us how urgent this was. This was supposed to be something that was so urgent, it had to be done right now; it had to be done before Christmas. Now Nancy Pelosi is just sitting on the articles of impeachment. Now, Lawrence Tribe, the law professor -- it seems he was the person who convinced Pelosi -- or his argument did -- that somehow, she could gain an upper hand on the Senate by withholding these articles. Does it work, in your estimation?

Guy Lewis: Raymond, with all due respect to Professor Tribe, this is wrong on so many different levels. Look, I prosecuted for the U.S. Attorney's Office and for the DOJ for many, many, many years, handled scores of grand-jury matters, indictments, and while it's not exactly the same, it is very similar. I mean, we as prosecutors would have to take the charging documents immediately over, file them with the court, and if we didn't do it, Raymond, we were subject -- the indictment could be dismissed; we were subject to sanctions. And so, for them to sit on this, for how long we don't know, I just -- I don't get it. I think the president and his team ought to be very aggressive on this, and if a trial is not held as the president wants, a speedy trial is not held quickly, then I think they need to either -- his team needs to either think about some kind of motion to dismiss, some kind of motion to compel. They need to be aggressors. You score more points by playing offense than you do defense.

Raymond Arroyo: David, very quickly, there were some reports that Pelosi was holding back, waiting until she gets a Democratic Senate, that she might sit on these articles of impeachment for a year, beat the president over the head with them throughout the election, not allow an acquittal. Does that strategy work? Is that a possibility?

David Rivkin: It's not a possibility. As I mentioned, the Senate trial has to commence. It's a constitutional duty. It's unlike legislation. If you move legislation of the House, out of the House, the Senate has an option of just sitting on it. The Senate has to proceed, and I believe she is going to blink and if she doesn't I think the majority leader is going to call her on it and proceed with a trial without her. But the whole thing is warping impeachment power. Look, it's not just about Trump. It's about the constitutional architecture. It's about misuse of impeachment power. It's about not only impeding the ability of the presidency to function, it's also frankly enormous disrespect of a Senate that's being manifested here. So, the behavior by the speaker is just deplorable.

Raymond Arroyo: I want to play something for you. This is Chuck Schumer making an argument that this is all about due process. That's why he wants these witnesses to come forward. Of course, Mitch McConnell has been saying it's not the Senate's job to do the House's business which is to prove the case. They shouldn't have to bring up more witnesses. Watch this.


Chuck Schumer: President Trump has said he wants due process. Well, our proposal gives it to him. The tradition of due process is that when you are accused you get to confront your accuser and make your case. We urge President Trump to do that through documents and witnesses.


Raymond Arroyo: Robert Ray, is that what this is about giving the president due process?

Robert Ray: Of course not, and it's the president's right and he can certainly waive it by filing a motion to dismiss and be done with this nonsense. I mean, the other thing is if the articles are indefinitely withheld public sentiment is going to turn against the Democrats even more than it has already and finally, Speaker Pelosi asked the wrong Harvard law professor. She should've asked Alan Dershowitz what his thoughts were.

Raymond Arroyo: Well, Noah Feldman, who they brought forward to testify during the House trial --

Robert Ray: Even he doesn't buy it.

Raymond Arroyo: Even he doesn't buy it. He's saying you got to communicate these articles of impeachment or the impeachment does not move forward. It's part of the deal. You've got to communicate it and then the House has to prosecute. Very quickly, Guy, if they decide not to prosecute right now, not to appoint House managers, does that stymie this or can Mitch McConnell then simply acquit it? Say we're moving to acquittal or dismissal.

Guy Lewis: I think Mitch McConnell's going to take this in his own hands. He's going to move forward expeditiously, very rapidly, and this thing is going to be over before the end of January no matter what.

Raymond Arroyo: Gentlemen, thank you all for your insight. Merry Christmas.

Male Speaker: Merry Christmas to you.

Raymond Arroyo: Thank you.

Male Speaker: Merry Christmas.

Raymond Arroyo: Well, it's no secret that the public's opinion, as Robert mentioned a moment ago, on -- of this whole impeachment drama has been swinging against Democrats and the media. The real clear politics polling average shows slightly more Americans oppose impeachment. But the polls don't give us the complete picture of what's really going on in the country. So, I hit the streets of New York today to ask Americans what they think of impeachment. Watch.


Raymond Arroyo: What do you make of this impeachment of the president?

Male Speaker: I can't say it on air.

Raymond Arroyo: Will it move your vote at all?

Male Speaker: Probably stronger in Trump's direction.

Female Speaker: I believe that the impeachment inquiry is a waste of time. The evidence of the -- his transcripts were out. He did nothing wrong.

Male Speaker: Just the fact that they just hate him from the beginning. Since day one they wanted to impeach him but he didn't step a foot in office. So, I mean, it's just -- it's all by hate. That's all it is.

Raymond Arroyo: What do you make of this impeachment drama?

Female Speaker: [bleep]

Raymond Arroyo: What do you make of it?

Male Speaker: Total BS if I can say that.

Male Speaker: A show that the Democrats are putting on just like they did with the Kavanaugh hearings.

Raymond Arroyo: Has it changed your view of the president and your vote in 2020?

Female Speaker: No. It's an absolute joke. I don't agree with it at all whatsoever.

Raymond Arroyo: Why not?

Female Speaker: It's a waste of time, money, and how nobody can like Donald Trump is beyond me. The man has done amazing things for this country.


Raymond Arroyo: Joining me now is Doug Schoen, pollster for Mike Bloomberg's 2020 campaign and John McLaughlin, Trump 2020 campaign pollster. Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. Doug, you saw the people I talked to on the street.

Doug Schoen: I did.

Raymond Arroyo: Now, they aren't buying this impeachment, not even liberals in New York would buy it. A number of these people were registered Democrats. They tell me they're displeased with Pelosi because they wanted this thing really moving ahead. They thought the train had left the station and he was going to be removed.

Doug Schoen: Well, the polling is bearing out what you saw, Raymond. Trump's numbers are going up on approval, in terms of his share of the vote against the five or six top Democrats and if this is in limbo for a while, I think this alone really hurt the Democrats because people will say basically what gives.

Raymond Arroyo: Does this help Trump in 2020?

John McLaughlin: Ironically. I mean, this is the impeachment backfires going on right now.

Raymond Arroyo: And you think a long trial would help him?

John McLaughlin: Not necessarily a long trial but there's no facts to this. So how do you have a trial? And the amazing thing is Donald Trump is a unique figure in history. I mean, this guy is so strong they've thrown the kitchen sink at him in this and there's nothing there. So, we know he was elected. Our poll that was done last week, the end of last week, 50 to 39. They know he's there to change Washington. And that's what he's doing. He's a bull in a china shop getting it done.

Raymond Arroyo: We're going to get to the -- some of your findings in a moment. I want both of you to react to this. This is CNN host Brian Stelter. Now he thinks he's found a scapegoat for the left's failure to sell impeachment to the public. I want to see if you buy this.


Brian Stelter: There's been barely any movement throughout the hearings and the debates on the floor of the House and then to the vote. People are exactly where they were, basically a 50/50 country. When you hear hype about movement and individual polls or when you hear Trump claim that he's suddenly gaining tons of support, just remember that it's a flat lie. One of the many reasons why is because the Fox News talk radio firewall is holding incredibly strong.


Raymond Arroyo: Oh, the firewall is holding. Doug, do you buy this analysis?

Doug Schoen: I'm a Democrat. I want the Democrats to win but this isn't a question of a Fox News firewall. This is a question of a case that's weak and an American people that want to talk about jobs, the economy, the environment, health care. Those are the issues people care about and for my party they do far better talking about those issues than this impeachment case.

Raymond Arroyo: John, I want to share with the viewers some polling data from your company. This is brand new. You guys found the generic vote for Congress is basically tied.

John McLaughlin: Right.

Raymond Arroyo: Forty-seven percent of voters choose a Democrat, 45 percent a Republican. But John, you say this is actually good for Republicans in 2020. Why?

John McLaughlin: Right, because statistically it's a tie plus those are 1,000 likely voters. They're people that are really going to show up. If the Republicans are that close history proves they could take the House and it's because the Republican voters in those Trump districts, that E-1 where there's 30 Democrats, they're really upset and they're basically reacting to it.

Raymond Arroyo: Doug, I want your reaction to this. John's company also found that the majority still see impeachment as political rather than legal, 50 percent, 66 percent of voters agree that impeachment has been a total waste of time.

Doug Schoen: Well, Raymond, it's hard to make a case that anything good has come of it for either side, much less the American people.

Raymond Arroyo: So, why is Pelosi holding these articles of impeachment and prolonging the pain for her own party?

Doug Schoen: She's trying to figure out what in a bad situation will work best for her having overplayed her hand.

Raymond Arroyo: Wow. John.

Doug Schoen: Well, I tell you what. The president, his strategy has been to show that he's a tough guy getting things done in Washington. It's the Frank Purdue strategy. And that's what we had Brad Parscale what they put out in the ads that during the World Series they showed this is a tough guy getting results and as Doug said, look at his record. Look at his accomplishments. Look at the low rate of unemployment, the seven million jobs created. $5,000 a family has gone up in income.

Raymond Arroyo: Before I run out of time, you two guys are like the oracles here. Where do these polls go now after Christmas?

Doug Schoen: I think they're going to stay about where they are. It's a very close election. The president's approval is about 45. Look, he remains vulnerable. The Democrats need to run on issues.

Raymond Arroyo: John, very quickly.

John McLaughlin: He's going to continue to grind up. This is a very strong president who's going to get stronger.

Raymond Arroyo: Gentlemen, thank you.

Doug Schoen: Thank you.

Raymond Arroyo: Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah.

Doug Schoen: Same.

Raymond Arroyo: Coming up. AOC claims the U.S. is a fascist country, now apparently socialism is the answer. And Bernie Sanders is trying to turn your Christmas dinner into a political food fight. How? Our political panel will tell you in a moment. Plus, Reverend Franklin Graham is here exclusively to respond to the once prominent Christianity Today calling for Trump's removal from office. Stay there.



Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: We need to fight to start this work, the establishment of an advanced society. As much as we like to say that the United States is the richest country in the history -- or, rather, in modern history, who cares about much gold is being amassed if we can't realize an advanced society with those resources? We're here to say that what we're living in right now is not an advanced society.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: It is fascism.


Raymond Arroyo: [LAUGHS] You heard that right. According to AOC, we are no longer an advanced society. We're a fascist country because we don't give the government more power to confiscate wealth and give it to politically favored classes. Who knew Venezuela and China were advanced societies? But if that's advancement, should we even know it or want it? Here to debate is Allie Beth Stuckey, host of the podcast Relatable, and Mark Levine. He's a member of the Virginia House of Delegates and a Democratic strategist. Mark, does AOC calling America a fascist country help Bernie Sanders with voters in the U.S.?

Mark Levine: People don't care what AOC has to say. She doesn't represent the Democratic Party. Nancy Pelosi represents the Democratic Party. People are focused on why the Senate is covering up Donald Trump's crimes. That's what they're focused on --

Raymond Arroyo: Wait a minute --

Mark Levine: -- or the wonderful article in Christianity Today --

Raymond Arroyo: -- I have to stop you. Just one second --

Mark Levine: Yeah.

Raymond Arroyo: -- one second. AOC doesn't represent the Democratic Party?

Mark Levine: Of course not.

Raymond Arroyo: She is the brain trust of the Democratic Party.

Mark Levine: Only on FOX News.

Raymond Arroyo: Well -- only on FOX News?

Mark Levine: Nowhere else.

Raymond Arroyo: Nancy --

Mark Levine: Nowhere else does anyone --

Raymond Arroyo: Mark --

Mark Levine: -- matter very much.

Raymond Arroyo: -- Nancy Pelosi moved the articles of impeachment because of pressure from AOC --

Mark Levine: Oh, that's silly.

Raymond Arroyo: -- and the rest of her caucus, right?

Mark Levine: That's ridiculous. No, Nancy Pelosi --

Raymond Arroyo: Oh, no? Oh, inform us then.

Mark Levine: -- did the articles because moderate Democrats said that the corruption from Donald Trump actively soliciting a foreign power to rig our elections in his favor was too much for even them to ignore. That's why they wrote an article. All the national security people that came forward and testified, all of Trump's people that testified under oath, people with Bronze Stars, Purple Stars [sic] --

Raymond Arroyo: Not one fact-based witness, Mark. Not one fact-based witness.

Mark Levine: All of them were fact-based.

Raymond Arroyo: No, they were all --

Mark Levine: Let me ask you this.

Raymond Arroyo: They were all --

Mark Levine: Why are they covering up the fact-based witnesses?

Raymond Arroyo: They were all once-, twice-, three times removed.

Mark Levine: Why won't they let [unintelligible] testify?

Raymond Arroyo: Okay --

Mark Levine: Why won't they let him testify --

Raymond Arroyo: -- I've got to let --

Mark Levine: -- let Giuliani testify?

Raymond Arroyo: Now you -- [shushing] you have to be quiet.

Mark Levine: They're covering up.

Raymond Arroyo: Do me a Christmas favor. Be quiet. Allie Beth, your turn. Your reaction? AOC is not important at all; Nany is the head of the party.

Allie Beth Stuckey: AOC has tens of millions of followers on Twitter, and I guarantee you most of them are not FOX News hosts or FOX News watchers. They are Democratic socialists who see AOC as the future of the party. We've seen Nancy Pelosi kowtow to the Squad several times in the past year since they have been elected. So, Nancy Pelosi would like to think she's the head of the party, and maybe in some ways she is, but unfortunately, the Democratic Party has given a lot of airtime and a lot of space to the Squad. That's why Bernie Sanders, a candidate for the presidency for the Democratic ticket, has AOC up there, and not Nancy Pelosi, speaking for him.

Raymond Arroyo: Well, Mark --

Allie Beth Stuckey: She says that this is not an advanced society. I would like to know some specifics from Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

Raymond Arroyo: Mark, doesn't -- isn't Bernie using AOC? I mean, she really needs -- he really needs her to pull in that demographic, and she is capitalizing on Bernie Sander by grabbing that far-left vote, which she knows his campaign is not going anywhere. She's going to take it and run with it when Bernie is dust.

Mark Levine: There's one socialist in the United States Senate; there's one socialist in the United States House. That's the two of them. I'm afraid you all really don't know how the Democratic Party works. Our focus is absolutely on Nancy Pelosi. She's the one that has our support; she's the one we're focused on. And I've got to say, we're focused on the crimes that Donald Trump has committed and whether or not the president is above the law. These are serious considerations. That's what Democrats are focused on, not what AOC has to say.

Raymond Arroyo: Okay, Bernie Sanders is looking to ruin Christmas dinner for millions of Americans. His campaign is sending something to supporters, young supporters, called family persuasion guides. They read, "It's up to us as students and young people to make the moral appeal to our older relatives to join us in voting for Bernie, because, let's face it, they won't be around for as long to deal with the consequences of this election, but we will be." I asked people on the street today what they thought of Bernie's approach to a politicized Christmas dinner. Watch.


Raymond Arroyo: Bernie Sanders' campaign has sent out something he calls a family persuasion kit, and it's to encourage grandparents and parents to vote for Bernie. Is that a good idea during the holidays?

Male Speaker: Yeah, if you're a fascist.

Raymond Arroyo: Do you think it's a good idea to encourage political acrimony and persuasion at the Christmas table?

Male Speaker: Pushing that agenda is kind of a bad look on his part.

Raymond Arroyo: Would you support any political campaign telling you, "Encourage your grandparents and parents to vote for candidate?"

Male Speaker: You have to have your own mindset. You have to think for yourself.


Raymond Arroyo: Allie, why is the left so intent on ruining Christmas for families? This is like Grandma Got Run Over by a Bernie [LAUGHS].

Allie Beth Stuckey: Politics has pervaded, invaded, infected absolutely everything, but you know, I hope at least these young people can report back to us. So, any parent or grandparent or aunt or uncle out there, if you've got a Bernie-supporting niece, nephew, child, grandchild coming home, be prepared to have a conversation with them and to tell them about the dangers of socialism. Maybe they'll learn a thing or two. I'm kind of excited about this.

Raymond Arroyo: [LAUGHS] Mark, shouldn't this be -- shouldn't Christmas dinner, Hanukkah dinner -- shouldn't this be a political-free zone? I mean, I don't think grandparents or parents want to feel the Bern right here, you know, right in the [unintelligible] zone.

Mark Levine: I don't know. When I celebrate the holidays, my family always talks about politics. It's what we talk about; it's what we care about. I think good families understand that you can disagree politically and still be good family members, and that's actually a good goal for all of us this holiday season.

Raymond Arroyo: Okay, I want to share a few bites from the last Democratic debate. The pandering was so extreme. This is a bizarre promise from Elizabeth Warren.


Elizabeth Warren: Here's a promise I make. I will go to the Rose Garden once every year to read the names of transgender women, of people of color, who have been killed in the past year. I will change the rules now that put people in prison based on their birth sex identification rather than their current identification.


Raymond Arroyo: Allie, does this work? There were 22 transgender people killed last year. Compare that with a thousand-plus women in domestic situations that were killed, or the hundreds of thousands of children aborted each year. Does appealing to that tiny subset of those electorate -- does that work for Democrats?

Allie Beth Stuckey: Yes, and most of those murders, by the way, were not hate crimes, although, of course, one murder is one too many. But, no, you're absolutely right; this is absolutely pandering. It's virtue-signaling. It doesn't mean anything; it doesn't make a difference in anyone's life.

Raymond Arroyo: Your reaction, Mark.

Mark Levine: All Americans deserve to be remembered. All Americans should be treated equally. All Americans who've suffered hard need to be remembered.

Raymond Arroyo: Well, I hope they remember all the names of those children who were aborted too during her rose garden ceremony. Let's get to this very quickly.

Allie Beth Stuckey: Amen.

Raymond Arroyo: We also saw Bernie Sanders at one point in that debate and they said, you know, old -- it's time for the old white guys to go away and Bernie Sanders said this.


Male Speaker: Former President Obama said this week when asked who should be running countries, quote, "If you look at the world and look at the problems, it's usually old people, usually old men not getting out of the way." Senator Sanders, you are the oldest candidate on stage this evening.

Bernie Sanders: And I'm white as well.

Male Speaker: Yes.


Raymond Arroyo: Allie, did I miss the punch line? Very quickly.

Allie Beth Stuckey: Oh, that was so awkward. Intersectionality is a heck of a drug because they have such a lack of diversity on that stage, leftists have to be self-loathing about their skin color in order to make themselves better.

Raymond Arroyo: Guys, I have to leave it there. Thank you, both. Allie, Mark, thank you so much.

Allie Beth Stuckey: Thank you.

Raymond Arroyo: Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas. Coming up, nearly 200 evangelical leaders across America signed a letter condemning Christianity today for demanding Trump's removal from office. One of those leaders is the son of Billy Graham who founded that magazine in the 1960s. Franklin Graham joins the Ingraham Angle exclusively next.



Mark Galli: I am making a moral judgment that he's morally unfit for a people who take the word -- the teachings of Jesus Christ seriously, teachings of the 10 Commandments seriously, that we can't at least say publicly and out loud in front of God and everybody that this man's character is deeply, deeply concerning to us and in my judgment has crossed a line and I no longer think he's fit to lead the United States of America.


Raymond Arroyo: That was Christianity Today editor in chief Mark Galli defending his editorial calling for President Trump's removal from office. The media ate it up, but now, conservative Christians are firing back. Nearly 200 prominent evangelicals are condemning the editorial writing in a letter quote, "We are Bible believing Christians and patriotic Americans who are simply grateful that our president has sought our advice as his administration has advanced policies that protect the unborn, promote religious freedom, and ensure that our foreign policy aligns with our values while making our world safer." One of the letter's signatories is the son of Billy Graham, who founded that magazine in the 1950s. Reverend Franklin Graham joins us now exclusively to respond. Reverend, thank you so much for being with us. Mark Galli invoked your father's name in that Christianity Today editorial. What do you think his reaction would be reading it?

Franklin Graham: First of all, my father would be very disappointed in Mark and would not agree with him at all. My father supported Donald Trump, believed in Donald Trump, and he actually voted for Donald Trump and if he were here today he would tell you that himself but you know listen, we're here at Christmas and let me just say something about Christmas, Christmas is about giving. It's about God's love. God giving his son Jesus Christ to take our sins and die on a cross and watching the news show tonight we see the evidence of sin all through Washington and around the world but God gave his son to take our sins and if we are willing to repent and put our faith and trust in Christ God will forgive us of our sins. So, Christmas is about God's love and it's about giving and this magazine is way off target. They're a very liberal left-wing magazine now and my father did start it back in the '50s and my grandfather Carl Henry was the first editor. My grandfather was the second editor and I remember very well my father worried about that magazine getting it up, getting it going. But over the last 20, 30 years he hasn't been a part of it and it's drifted to the left. And this magazine does not speak for these evangelical Christians. Two hundred leaders signed that letter. But it would've been many hundreds more if they'd had time to go get those names. It would've been thousands --

Raymond Arroyo: Reverend.

Franklin Graham: --- of evangelicals would've signed it.

Raymond Arroyo: Reverend Graham, I need to show you this because this episode, this editorial, really has brought out the worst in the media. MSNBC host Al Sharpton is also throwing stones at conservative Christians. Watch.


Al Sharpton: The reason it's offended is it's exposing all of them that they would take this shameless conman over the principles that they're preaching in the Holy season as we celebrate Jesus. They would sell Jesus out if they felt they could get something from it.


Raymond Arroyo: Reverend Graham, are you and the millions of evangelicals who supported the president selling out Jesus? Sellouts?

Franklin Graham: No. Well, no. First of all, I don't know where Al Sharpton's come from. I've only met him one time but he's had plenty of problems himself over the years. What we as Christians, and for me as an evangelical, I'm concerned about the direction of our country. I'm concerned about religious liberty. We saw under the Obama administration Christian businesses put out a business because of their religious beliefs and that was -- we were seeing many cases like that under the Trump administration these cases are disappearing. And we appreciate the fact that the president is putting conservative judges in that respect religious freedom and we need more judges and we need more religious freedom, not less, and that's not selling out, no. Is President Trump, is he a perfect person? No, he's not and neither am I. Has he failed in some ways? Yes he has, and I'm sure if he could go back and turn the clock back 20 years, he'd probably do things differently, and all of us would.

Raymond Arroyo: Reverend Graham, are you --

Franklin Graham: But I appreciate where Donald Trump is today.

Raymond Arroyo: Are you shocked by the judgments, the moral judgments, being rendered here not only in this galley editorial, but by the media who is amplifying this? That suddenly it's okay to judge people morally? I thought we weren't supposed to judge people's hearts or judge them. Now it seems we can do it all day long. Maybe you and I should make a list of naughty and nice for the whole year through, not just at Christmas.

Franklin Graham: Well, I promise you God has a list of naughty and nice, and he's the one who makes the judgments as it relates to morality, and the problem is all of us are guilty of sin. We're all immoral, broken people, and that's why Jesus Christ came at Christmas to take our sins.

Raymond Arroyo: Before I let you go, I've got to ask you about such a beautiful project that you at Samaritan's Purse undertake each year, Operation Christmas Child. Now, I'm going to show you the picture of the son of one of our producers. He participates each year, and he puts his gift -- that's little Teddy putting gifts in a little shoebox to ship out. You've distributed more than 135 million of these gift shoeboxes all over the world since 1993. Tell me how the program is going this year.

Franklin Graham: This year, we're close to 11 million boxes so far --

Raymond Arroyo: Wow.

Franklin Graham: -- going to about 110 different countries. Every box is different -- they're like snowflakes -- packed by individual families, but what's so important is we ask people to pray. Pray for the child that's going to get your box. We know God will hear the prayer of one righteous person. Could you imagine 11 million people praying for children, what God just might do for the children of this world?

Raymond Arroyo: Reverend Graham, thank you so much for being here. Merry Christmas. We wish you and your family a blessed one and thank you for your prayers and support.

Franklin Graham: Merry Christmas. Thank you.

Raymond Arroyo: Well, in the spirit of Christmas, my Fox Nation special, Christmastime in New Orleans, captures the music, the faith, traditions, and cuisine of one of our greatest cities at Christmastime. Actors Wendell Piece, Jim Caviezel, and some of the best chefs in the Big Easy join me for this toe-tapping special. See it now on Get your free trial, and don't forget the code, CELEBRATE. Up next, Victor Davis Hanson joins us to share what could be the most enduring aspect of Trump's presidential legacy, and my Christmas message. Don't go away.



President Donald Trump: We confirmed 13 more highly qualified, brilliant federal judges to interpret the law as written, bringing the total to 187 federal judges right now.


Raymond Arroyo: President Trump is touting what some consider his biggest accomplishment yet: getting judges on the bench. Now, Trump's total remake of the judiciary even extends to the very liberal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has blocked many of his policies, including the travel ban, rescinding DACA, and the border wall funding. And now Trump is appointing conservative judges to the Ninth Circuit, narrowing Democratic appointee holds there from 11 to three seats. Here to discuss is Victor Davis Hanson. He's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, and a regular here. Merry Christmas, Victor. Now, what does this mean for the future of Trump's policies in our country, this turnabout on the Ninth Circuit?

Victor Davis Hanson: Well, the Ninth Circuit is the biggest of all the federal appeals court. You know, it's 60 million people in its nine-state jurisdiction, so that in itself means a lot. But I think he's doing two things, Raymond. He's putting more traditional constructionist judges in there that are going to be less likely to, you know, parrot the progressive line, but more importantly, I think they're going to be less likely to entertain any injunctions. You know, before the 1960s, it was very rare for a federal appellate judge to overturn a referendum that millions of people had voted for, a presidential executive order, or a piece of legislation. So, I think they're not only going to be more traditional, they're going to be less likely to be activist at all, and it really means a lot to us on a state level, because here in California we have a super-majority of Democrats in state legislature. We don't have a single Republican statewide office. We only have seven congressional seats that are Republicans, and we have this Ninth Circuit, so there's no voice. Nobody has any voice, and I think what Trump is doing is he's saying to Californians, "If you vote to allow farmers to have water, that Ninth Circuit is not going to overrule that law and let water run out to San Francisco Bay" or "If you vote to suspend some sanctuary cities, it's not going to nullify federal law." And so, it means in California that if we do pass laws that are reasonable, the Ninth Circuit is not going to be so ready to nullify the voice of the people as it has so often in the past.

Raymond Arroyo: Victor, even the liberals at MSNBC are amazed at Trump's success with judicial nominees and appointments. Watch.


Male Speaker: Judges, for example. While Donald Trump has been president of the United States, he has supported and nominated and put in place 157, if I remember correctly --

Female Speaker: A staggering number.

Male Speaker: Yes.

Male Speaker: -- judges, 50 circuit court judges, since he's been president. It took Obama eight years to put in 55.


Raymond Arroyo: Actually, Victor, the number is 187 judicial confirmations for Trump.

Victor Davis Hanson: It is.

Raymond Arroyo: Put into context the Democrat obsession with impeachment while Trump is remaking the federal bench. Which has longer legs here?

Victor Davis Hanson: Well, the federal bench does. While they're giving all of this -- these soapbox lectures and pontificating about impeachment and going on cable news. Very silently Donald Trump with the federalist organization, Leonard Leo, they have got these wonderful nominees that are well qualified, brilliant jurists and systematically with Mitch McConnell they're just systemically changing the judiciary in a way that even Bill Clinton and Barak Obama didn't do at this point in their career. So, and they're doing it especially in this 9th Circuit, Raymond, as I said. It's the largest and the most prestigious and the most left wing and that's going to set a tempo especially when these judges start saying, you know what, that's an executive order. It's constitutional. We're not even going to entertain it or you know what, this law was passed by 20 million people we're not going to overturn it and I think that's going to be a profound sea change. It's just -- belies all the stereotypes of Trump that he's reckless, he doesn't know what he's doing. This is a systematic careful effort to change the judiciary the way the founders intended it to be.

Raymond Arroyo: Victor Davis Hanson, I thank you so much for your time, your insight as always. Merry Christmas. We'll see you in the new year.

Victor Davis Hanson: Merry Christmas. Thank you.

Raymond Arroyo: An important Christmas message next and what it means to keep Christmas. Stay there.


Raymond Arroyo: Welcome back to the Ingraham Angle. In Dicken's Christmas Carol Scrooge says, "I will honor Christmas in my heart and try to keep it all the year." At the end it says Scrooge knew how to keep Christmas well but what does it mean to keep Christmas well? A very holy woman I once knew said, "You may be the only savior people ever see. It's up to each of us to be that hope that light during this cold time." I had a friend tell me the other day that he invited a man who had no family to his home for Christmas dinner and I thought that's keeping Christmas well and showing that he truly dwells among us. I'm Raymond Arroyo in from Laura Ingraham. That last-minute Christmas gift all three books in my Will Wilder series are available at bookstores everywhere. They're great for the adventurers in your house and the young at heart and I do all the funny voices on the audiobook, so check them out. You'll love them.

On behalf of the whole "Ingraham Angle" team and Laura, we wish you and yours a blessed Christmas and a Happy Hanukkah. May we all strive toward the divine light this season. See you in the new year. Have a great night.

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