Rep. Nunes: Ratcliffe really knows the law, and that's what we need

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Rep. Nunes: Ratcliffe really knows the law, and that's what we need

Trump taps Ratcliffe for DNI; House Intelligence Committee ranking member Devin Nunes reacts.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," February 28, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening everybody. The Santa Clara county health department in California, confirming a short time ago that they have another case coronavirus in the state. The fears of this virus are weighing on the world tonight as the market tumbles in a slide not seen since 2008 and airlines cut hundreds of thousands of flights.

The Federal Reserve Chairman saying today that the virus is an "evolving risk" to the economic activity. Larry Kudlow, the President's top economic adviser says it is not time to panic. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: We've been through this many, many times before. And I don't think even though it's a front page story and nobody likes to see their asset values go down, I just don't think at this point it's going to have much of an impact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And in an exclusive interview with Fox business correspondent Susan Li, Apple CEO Tim Cook said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM COOK, CEO, APPLE: I don't - first of all, I don't really focus on the short term gyrations of the market. I think for me and with the way we run the company, we work for the long term and I see no long term difference between what was happening four weeks ago versus what's happening today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Susan Li joins me now from Fox Business. Susan, great to have you with us and that was really interesting interview that you did today with Tim Cook. Tell us a little bit about you know his - I mean obviously, he owns one of the biggest or runs one of the biggest companies in the world, that is so globally intertwined. So what is his take on the impact of this longer term?

SUSAN LI, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It was really interesting because Larry Kudlow actually quoted my exclusive with Tim Cook as saying that this is a bifurcation in the market mean that on one hand, you're looking at the worst week for the stock market but on the other hand you have America's biggest company, it's worth about 5 percent of the S&P 500.

Only five companies in history have had that type of influence and Tim Cook sounding actually positive because things are actually getting better in China. Take a listen, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOK: When you look at the parts that are done in China, we have reopened factories so the factories were able to work through the conditions to re- open. They're re opening. They're also in ramp and so I think that this is sort of the third phase of getting back to normal and we're in phase 3 of the of the ramp mode.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LI: And he went on to say that it's a temporary condition, Martha. Meaning, they might tweak a few knots but nothing wholesale when it comes to their supply chain and operating in China and they've seen this before. They say our supply chain has survived a lot of natural disasters like hurricanes, like fires. It's been intact. It's about resilience and I think Apple maybe a special case as well since they arguably are the most successful U.S. company to ever penetrate the Chinese market.

They get 20 percent of their sales there but then they're also hobbled by the fact that they assemble more than 50 percent of their iPhones so they might be a unique case, Martha. But I think the stock market action on Friday also is a positive because they didn't usually panic and fall off the cliff on a Friday and weekend if there really was a lot of fear.

Instead, we actually saw some buying Martha in the last 15 or 20 minutes of the trading session.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean that that is interesting. You know, it seems to me when you look at what the statement that Goldman Sachs put out, that they're basically not going to assume any earnings growth for American companies in 2020 as a result of this and a number of the firms on Wall Street really sort of you know sending signals that I think obviously the market overall over the last several days read as some real caution signals.

I think it's kind of tough to know who to believe.

LI: Well, we heard from Tim Cook and he says look, have things really change that much in four weeks? Not really. I mean in fact, I think the jobs number point to a very strong U.S. economy. China isn't falling off a cliff. It seems like China is actually getting better at containing the coronavirus.

You saw the lowest amount of new cases being reported today compared to the 2000 numbers that you always get. So there is - I would say that what we've seen in SARS and also back in 2003 and also what was on with 911 when stock markets fell 12 to 13 percent each time after that, they tend to recover and markets reward those that stick in these tough times.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean I thought his point was interesting and that he said that you know, the fundamentals of our business haven't changed and the business hasn't changed so it is in some ways more like a natural disaster in terms of what you're talking about, an unforeseen impact that hits the market.

But it really depends on how long the impact lasts and it's schools closed or theme park closed and I realize you know, I'm just sort of playing devil's advocate here because you know, there's a lot of big question marks still to be figured out here.

LI: Absolutely consumption although Tim Cook and I would imagine that a lot of people looking at the markets and know that that consumption is there. He says the demand is there but the fact that you had to close production and close the stores so you can't go and buy your iPhones. That's the problem. It's just a late consumption probably after this coronavirus is contained.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean you can see people pulling back perhaps if it gets worse on going to malls. I mean, one of the interesting things that we have you know, internet is how everybody buys most of these things. Right?

LI: Right definitely. Well, we saw that over the holiday period. Those are record holiday shopping period so consumers are still spending. They feel wealthy because of a great jobs, economy as well.

MACCALLUM: Susan, great interview with Tim Cook today. That was very interesting to watch. You don't see that very often from him. Thank you so much. Good to have you here tonight. So joining me now in studio Stephen Moore, former senior economic adviser to President Trump and distinguished visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

Steve, good to have you with us today. What do you - this market plunge is dramatic. I mean we haven't seen it since 2008 so I think it's - you know, I understand the effort to sort of quell the fears and calm people but on the other hand, that's pretty big deal.

STEPHEN MOORE, FMR SENATOR ECONOMIC ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Yes, you know the economy was really sailing along at a beautiful pace. You know we had the low unemployment and low inflation and businesses were starting to invest again and bam, you know we get hit with this.

You know, the one piece of advice right out of the gate, I give to investors, people who invest you know for their retirement or for an education fund or to buy a house. Don't sell on a down market. You know, it's the first rule of - but people tend to because they get - they get -

MACCALLUM: Especially when they have experienced such nice gains over the past year.

MOORE: But it's true that at the end of the day today, the markets actually rose by 700 points from its low. So I'm with Larry Kudlow. I think that this is containable economically. I think that you know this might not be a bad time to actually start maybe looking at some of the blue chip stocks.

But you're also right Martha that this does have a real economic impact. Obviously, we've seen in China where factories are closed down and where you see schools closing down. I don't think you're going to see anything like that in the United States but you always have to worry about it.

MACCALLUM: Yes, let's hope not. This is Mike Bloomberg at a rally in Memphis today, talking about all of this and President Trump. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This week, the stock market has plunged partly out of fear but also because investors have no confidence that the President is capable of managing the crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I mean this is interesting because the president said that one of the reasons that the market fell is because that investors lost confidence when they saw the Democratic debate which is -

MOORE: I thought that was a bit of a cheap shot by Michael Bloomberg because I actually think the president has you know, in his press conference, he's handled this so professionally. I think he reassured people. I do actually think there's a little bit of an impact in the Bernie Sanders affect.

You know you've talked a lot about it. I'm not sure that people are worried about a guy who's anti-investor and wants to raise capital gains and dividend taxes and anti-business but fundamentally, you know one of the things I looked at was what has happened in the past Martha, when we've had other you know, SARS and Ebola and other kinds of viruses.

And what you find is you get a big sell off like we've had this week and then as soon as you get either a treatment or you know fall off in the cases, the market goes right back up again so I tend to think that's what we're -

MACCALLUM: There's a lot been going with gangbusters.

MOORE: The only thing we don't know is when this is going to contain.

MACCALLUM: Yes, exactly.

MOORE: Is this going to be two weeks? Is this -

MACCALLUM: We just got a report tonight of another case in California and these are just you know that's just one person but the question is does this start to multiply which we all certainly hope it won't and we hope that it's under control.

MOORE: It should be - our public health system.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

MOORE: That we - we're so much better equipped at dealing with this and I think people think about it when they hear about Medicare for all and government take over healthcare system. It didn't work too well in China.

MACCALLUM: Here's a quick soundbite from the President on the Fed. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I hope that Fed gets involved. I think they made a lot of mistakes. They - but I hope the Fed gets involved and I hope they get involved soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So he's saying he hopes the Fed gets involved. Those are reports today from the Washington Post that that there is you know, that the economic team at the White House is considering all kinds of things, perhaps a targeted tax cut, perhaps you know obviously he wants the Fed to lower rates.

Are we going to see those kind of levers pulled in order to try to buffer this a bit?

MOORE: The one thing I think that should have - should have happened this week was the Fed should've acted instantaneously. They should have acted on Monday or Tuesday and come in and reduce rates.

We're seeing a big fall off in price right. Now look what's happened today. Corn prices, cotton prices, copper prices, oil prices, they're falling and that's because of this year. The Fed should have had that - headed that off.

Now they are probably Martha, the betting is that when they meet in March, the Fed will actually cut interest rates but if you're going to - why wait till March? Why not do it now at the height of the storm?

MACCALLUM: Steve Moore, thank you. Always good to see you.

MOORE: OK, thank you Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for coming in. So a short time ago President Trump named his pick for the Director of National Intelligence. Congressman Devin Nunes joins us live from Washington next on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: President Trump for the second time tapping Republican Congressman John Ratcliffe to serve as his Director of National Intelligence, taking over from Dan Coats who held the position previously.

Ratcliffe who was a member of the President's impeachment defense team, had previously been nominated for the job last year when it was first open but withdrew his name from consideration.

Fox news congressional correspondent Chad Pergram has this story for us from Capitol Hill. Hi Chad.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening Martha. You know, senators from both sides of the aisle, they want a permanent Senate confirmed Director of National Intelligence and this is a mulligan for John Ratcliffe who dropped his bid to be the DNI last year.

President Trump tweeted that Ratcliffe waited until the Inspector General report was complete with FISA but that's not what Ratcliffe said when he withdrew last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN RATCLIFFE (R-TX): I made the decision to withdraw from consideration because you know, if your political future comes down to the vote of 100 U.S. senators and you start out day one, down 47 to nothing because every Democrat is against you, my concern was there's not a lot of margin for error there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: At the time there were concerns about Ratcliffe's resume and whether he patted it so it's not certain how the Senate math changes to confirm Ratcliffe today. The top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee Mark Warner asking what's changed since last summer.

Ratcliffe serves on the House Intelligence and Judiciary committees. He was dogged in defending the President in impeachment hearings, last year. Republican South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham is a fan of Ratcliffe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'm OK with John. I mean, I've always liked John Ratcliffe. I think he's a very capable person. I personally don't even know why we have a DNI. I think it's become a redundant deal but bottom line is if the President would recommend him, I'd be favorably disposed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer says "President Trump has shown once again his lack of respect for the rule of law and the intelligence community. Republicans must join Democrats to swiftly reject the nomination of Mr. Ratcliffe.

Now another name we were hearing that was a possibility to become the DNI is Pete Hoekstra. He was the former Republican congressman from Michigan, Chair of the Intelligence Committee. He's currently the ambassador to the Netherlands.

You know President Trump tweeted last summer that the reason that Ratcliffe withdrew his nomination is he spoke with him and he told him "how miserable the confirmation process would be."

It's unclear if this confirmation process will also be miserable. Back to you.

MACCALLUM: Likely. We'll see. Chad, thank you very much. Here now Republican Congressman Devin Nunes, ranking member of the House Intelligence committee. Congressman Nunes, thank you for being here tonight.

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): It's great to be with you.

MACCALLUM: So is John Ratcliffe qualified for this job? Is he a good pick?

NUNES: Well, he's - he's a great friend of mine. He's been invaluable on the Intelligence Committee. He really, I think his strong suit is he really knows the law as a former U. S. attorney and that's what we need in that in that position.

I think you saw Lindsey Graham there mentioned about the DNI. It's really gotten way too big. It's become duplicative has Senator Graham -

MACCALLUM: Let me - I want to ask you about that because that position was created after 911 because the problem was that the intelligence agencies weren't keeping each other apprised of what information they had.

That's a pretty serious issue that came up on 911 that the FBI didn't know what the CIA was doing and that perhaps if they had and I remember George Tenet writing about this, if they had been talking to each other, we might have known what was coming.

So don't we need someone and doesn't that person need to be -

NUNES: So absolutely. That's why - that's why the DNI was stood up and created but what's happened, it's happened with all bureaucracies is they become bloated and now you have something that was supposed to be - I was there, I voted to create it.

The original reason to create it was for it to be a strategic planning arm really to look and make sure that everyone is communicating. What they started to do is they started a duplicate efforts.

In addition to that, you also have to look at the problems that we've had in terms of trying to get documents, trying to get things declassified. John Ratcliffe is the one who was in the middle of all of uncovering what really the - what I call, the dirty cops did at DO J and FBI.

He was one of the most reliable people that we had.

MACCALLUM: I mean, that's probably one of the reasons that a lot of Democrats are going to vote against him.

NUNES: I'm sure all 47 are going to vote against him.

MACCALLUM: They're going to see him as the President putting someone in to keep an eye on the intelligence agencies. That - that's what they're going to say, I would imagine.

NUNES: And one other important point that I want to make sure I point out. One of the jobs of the DNI was to figure out the security clearance process, to fix it and now the security clearance process today is much worse than what it was when we -

MACCALLUM: Well, maybe putting the right person in there, we can clean some of that up. I mean his qualifications are not all that different than Dan Coats who had the job. You know in terms of what his background is. Also on the intelligence committee as you say. So we'll see where that goes.

In terms of the briefing on coronavirus, you were in that room. Here's a - Chairman Adam Schiff said this. The President and Vice President don't inspire confidence and because the President has made so many false statements about so many things, you really can't rely on the White House says Chairman Adam Schiff.

What did you make of that briefing and what do you make of that statement.

NUNES: Well, probably the most important thing that we could do if we're going to stop anyone from meeting and I only say this half joking is for Congress to stop meeting. I was in that hearing, it was a lot of yelling, a lot of blame, a lot of name calling and look there's - this is a serious issue.

People are worried. You know, we don't know a lot about this because the Chinese have been so secretive about it and so the folks that were - that were claiming that the President just weeks ago was trying to you know, he was being racial, racist.

MACCALLUM: That he was racist. No, I know.

NUNES: And now that ends up being exactly the right thing to do.

MACCALLUM: I think the American people would be so happy if both sides sort of said you know what, let's put it outside and let's just deal with this. It's a - it's a health problem that's facing United States but it seems like everybody can't even help themselves from using all of these situations, any situation as a way to hammer each other.

NUNES: And American people actually might be happy if the Congress shut its lights down for about three months.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Everybody going to quarantine for a little while.

NUNES: Yes. We could use that.

MACCALLUM: Quick question for you about this Ukraine investigation that is now looking into the firing of Viktor Shokin so everybody remembers that a lot of this goes back to Vice President Biden and saying that he wanted him to leave, which was you know sort of the policy of the White House.

And Congress was also interested in in that at the time as well. So those people are going to look at this and say, there's investigation that that the president wanted. It's finally happening in Ukraine, is that what's happening?

NUNES: Well, the issues in Ukraine as always, go back to the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democrats. They can wish it away if, they can build narratives that they like but the truth of the matter remains that the Democrats paid operatives to go to Ukraine and dig up dirt on the Trump campaign.

And took an unprecedented step to have even the ambassador, Ukrainian ambassador, here in Washington DC, a diplomat, no less take shots at the Republican candidate for President so the fact that there were definitely shenanigans that went on Ukraine, that is a fact.

MACCALLUM: Right but the question is action is there anyone in this country, anyone connected to the president, encourage this investigation to begin which is now underway.

NUNES: Not that I'm aware of and I - even the whole argument -

MACCALLUM: Anybody over there about -

NUNES: Not only that but the folks that I have talked to in the past, never through all this and we're going back to impeachment hoax time here, but no one ever talked about the Ukrainians opening up investigations. Think about that for a second. It only takes a little common sense.

Ukraine's corrupt. Why on earth would anybody want Ukraine of all people -

MACCALLUM: Well, the President asked Zelensky to please look into it.

NUNES: Different. He didn't ask him to do an investigations and that's - that was the whole - that's the whole -

MACCALLUM: You should look into this. What's the difference?

NUNES: Look into this means I think what the President was talking about at the time was the same thing we were looking for right as Republicans. What we were trying to find or do they have any documentation as to what the Clinton campaign was doing into the 2016 election and why so many senior leadership of Ukraine, what they were up to?

I don't think there was any connection to Shokin or Biden or anyone.

MACCALLUM: And you just - you know just to close, there's no - you don't know of anybody in our government who has talked to them recently about opening up this investigation.

NUNES: I would think that sadly, I think our relationships with Ukraine are quite strained because you know, any Ukrainian you talk to now you're immediately trying to do something to Mr. Biden.

MACCALLUM: You do not want it to look like they were being pushed by anybody.

NUNES: And Joe Biden is gone. He's not going to - I mean, he may win South Carolina. He's not going to be the President of United States.

MACCALLUM: Well, we'll see. We'll see. Thank you very much Devin Nunes. Good to see you, Congressman. Thanks for being here. Coming up next, a Story exclusive with Chuck Hagel. Why the president, why the Republican Senator who served as Secretary of Defense under President Obama is putting lawmakers on blast in an effort to save democracy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So it is at the center of the latest Washington divide. The coronavirus triggering exchanges like this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: - so much attention to it today is that they think this is going to be what brings down the President. That's what this is all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do agree with Donald Trump's Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney that the coronavirus is the hoax of the day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The State department is doing everything it can to protect American citizens around the world -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe coronavirus -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot comment on what others are saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe the coronavirus is a hoax?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're working to keep people safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you can't even answer that question. It is shameful you can't even answer basic questions. I yield back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So the deep divisions catching the attention of 70 former senators from both sides of the aisle who are calling for a new caucus to navigate the business of the American people through the partisan tied and return to a more perfect union.

Here now is one of those former senators Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska who served as Secretary of Defense under President Obama. Secretary Hagel, good to see you tonight. Thank you very much for being here. What goes through your mind when you watch those - those kinds of exchanges and name calling?

CHUCK HAGEL (R), FORMER SENATOR OF NEBRASKA: Well Martha, unfortunately our congress has become captive to raw partisanship instead of compromising accomplishment and when I see those exchanges, especially on an issue like this, this is a national tragedy and it's a national challenge and could be a national disaster if we don't work together.

This certainly is an issue that would bring people together. The people of this country would expect their leaders, Republican, Democrat, to work together on something and I don't think it helps anybody or gets us to a solution or gets us to where we need to be when we go after each other than these - these rank just raw partisan ways.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I said the other day I think it would have been great to have seen someone on that Democrat debate stage, not attack how the President is handling this and instead of saying what you just said. You know this is a moment where you put all that aside and we pull together.

If you've got a good idea for what we should do, bring it to the fore, and let's - you know, let's find the best solutions here. How can this group of former senators have an impact on the folks who are over there right now?

HAGEL: Well, they're in charge. They're the 100 senators now that are running the show and the 70 senators that wrote that letter recognize that. And we were very careful not to go back into our background and say things were so well done we were there. It was imperfect as well.

But I think we can help at least encourage them to form a bipartisan caucus to get Democrats and Republicans in a room to start working on regular order.

For example, regular order means that we used to use the subcommittee and committee process to address our differences, to compromise, to actually pass legislation. Oversight legislation, policymaking.

Senate doesn't do that anymore. And passing budgets, you don't do that anymore. You don't pass appropriations bills. So, the Senate is really failing. And it's not one person's fault, it's not a president's fault, it's not a party's fault. This has been coming.

And we've allowed it to get to this critical point where we've got to do something about it because it can only function our government, our three coequal branches of government when each branch is playing its role.

And the Congress is just not playing its role now. And that letter that we wrote, and as you know, we had many Republicans and Democrats, many Republican leaders, former leaders, we had a former chairman of National Republican Committee Bill Brock signed that letter.

So, this is a bipartisan effort. Because I think what always govern or tried to govern every one of us who signed that, we're there because of the American people. And our interest is above politics, it's got to be. We take an oath of office to the Constitution of this country. Not to a political party, not to a president. But to the country. And that should be our focus.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HAGEL: And that should be our purpose. To work things out and compromise.

MACCALLUM: It feels like every issue that comes up becomes a political cudgel to be aimed at the other side and it is, I think disrupting.

Before I let you go, you ran for president at one time. What do you think of the current crop and are you surprised at how well Bernie Sanders is doing?

HAGEL: Well, I am. But also, after reminding myself just go back to 2016 when Donald Trump came on the scene and there were very few people in the Republican Party, the news media, who said that Donald Trump had much of a chance of getting the nomination, let alone being elected.

But there is something going on in our country. It's going on in every western democracy and that's a lack of confidence and trust in our institutions. Specifically, our politics, and government in Washington. But it's everywhere. In the media, it's everywhere. That lack of confidence.

And when you've got that volatility, uncertainty out there, you are going to have people like Bernie Sanders, a socialist, appeal to a lot of people on the left and right because they feel that they've been left behind.

Same, I think very much the same base that President Trump appealed to, these elitists in Washington and the east coast, they're not taking care of us, they're not watching out for us. And so, when you've got that kind of political environment, then the volatility rules, and political environments always dominate. They always do.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HAGEL: And one other point, I always said politics only reflects society. Politics does not lead, it reflects society. And that's very obvious today, I think.

MACCALLUM: Well, what we are seeing right now is a lot of interest in President Trump and a lot of interest in Bernie Sanders, that's coming from those grassroots outside of Washington, so we will see where it goes in 2020.

Always nice to see you, sir.

HAGEL: Thank you, Martha. I appreciate it.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much, Senator Hagel. Good to have you here tonight.

HAGEL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So after a brutal fact-check from the Washington Post, Joe Biden changes his story about being arrested while trying to see Nelson Mandela. The details next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We came back from South Africa trying to seem Nelson Mandela and getting arrested for trying to see him on Robben Island when he was in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think South Carolina will give your campaign enough of a boost heading into Super Tuesday?

BIDEN: I think I've got a boost already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joe Biden making his final push in South Carolina tonight ahead of the primary tomorrow, considered a must win for his campaign. The former vice president holds a comfortable lead, 20 points in that poll in the latest Fox News poll in South Carolina.

But earlier this week, he's faced some controversy when a story that he repeatedly told about being arrested while he was trying to see Nelson Mandela was deemed false by the Washington Post, prompting this clarification today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: When I said arrested, I meant I was not able to -- I was not able to move. Cops in Africa would not let me go with them, they made me stay where I was. I guess I wasn't arrested, I was stopped. I was not able to move where I wanted to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, joining me now, Marlon Kimpson, Joe Biden's surrogate and South Carolina state senator. Good to see you, Marlon. Thank you very much for being here tonight.

You know, I mean, it just -- it raises the question, you know, why? Why say that you were arrested right before the South Carolina primary several times on campaign stops when it just isn't the truth?

MARLON KIMPSON, BIDEN CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: Well, listen, we have a history of president Donald Trump telling the truth and in fact, telling the untruth. In fact, in South Carolina right now, he is lying about this economy. This economy was created by Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: OK. But two things, sir. First of all, I didn't ask you about President Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

KIMPSON: The fact is, if you look at the definition of arrest --

MACCALLUM: And second of all -- no, hold on. All right, hold on.

KIMPSON: I you look at the definition of arrest, you can perceive that you're being stopped by the police, you are not free to go on your wheel. And that's up to Joe Biden to explain that. But I think he's explained it.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, first of all. Let me just --

(CROSSTALK)

KIMPSON: And the fact is, is that he told -- he gave you his explanation of it.

MACCALLUM: OK. Which is fine.

KIMPSON: Unlike this president.

MACCALLUM: But, you know, but to get into, you know, I ask you about Joe Biden not about President Trump. And on second, on that front, if you think that the president doesn't tell the truth then why would you -- why would it be OK if Joe Biden didn't tell the truth, you know? One error doesn't make the other error OK.

But all that being said, he clarified what he meant and went out. But the problem for the campaign is that it provides this distraction from the focus of the campaign. And is that a problem, you know, when you are somebody working with him and wants him to win?

KIMPSON: It's not a problem. South Carolinians trust Joe Biden. Nobody in South Carolina is talking about Joe Biden's arrest record in South Africa. The reality is he's going to win big here tomorrow, it's going to give him a boost in Super Tuesday, and he will go on to win the nomination. We're not going to let this narrative derail the campaign.

MACCALLUM: OK.

KIMPSON: It's just not an issue here in South Carolina.

MACCALLUM: All right. I believe you.

KIMPSON: Go ahead.

MACCALLUM: I believe that people aren't, you know, talking about this all the time in South Carolina.

Here's Jim Clyburn who have a very strong endorsement to Joe Biden on CNN today talking about the down ballot impact of Bernie Sanders rise. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I was in Texas about three weeks with Eddie Bernice Johnson doing a banquet for her. I talked to the faith community down there, and they were very, very concerned about whether or not somebody you will do something or have somebody on the ticket that will cause down ballot carnage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, I mean, it seems to me that that's probably one of the strongest arguments for Joe Biden coming from Representative Clyburn.

KIMPSON: No, I agree. A lot of Democrats are very concerned about a socialist leading the ticket. If you look at the national data, we will lose 50 -- 60 states -- they will create tend to teach us a lesson. We will lose big time down ballot.

The reality is in South Carolina and the rest of the country, we are very supportive of President Barack Obama. Bernie Sanders called for the president to be primary. He waffled on gun reform in South Carolina, we're very supportive of the Affordable Care Act and gun reform.

MACCALLUM: Understood.

KIMPSON: Both of those major issues are tenets in the Democratic Party and that's why Vice President Biden will be our nominee.

MACCALLUM: All right. We'll be watching tomorrow night. Marlon Kimpson, thank you so much, sir. Good to have you with us tonight.

KIMPSON: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: President Trump descending on South Carolina tonight with a rally of his own, what he just said about the Democratic rivals jockeying to take him on come November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That is not spattering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: All right. So, President Trump in South Carolina on the eve of the Democratic primary tomorrow. It's a state he easily carried in 2016 beating Hillary Clinton by 14 points. Democrats battling it out. The president is hitting them from the stage of a pack during the night.

Here's what he said moments ago, going after somebody who needs a big night tomorrow, Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Now sleepy Joe would say, the unemployment rate in the great state of Ohio -- no, no. You're in South Carolina. Joe, Joe, you're in South -- they come up -- have you ever seen the guy that, no, no, it's South Carolina, it's not Ohio. OK.

Then he goes, all right. Iowa. Did you say Iowa? No, no. I did like seven times. If I did that once it would be the end of the road. Right? It would be end of the road. They'd say, Trump has lost it. They like to say that anyway, I guess so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Sean Spicer, host of the new show Spicer and Company premiering at 6 p.m. on Super Tuesday, March 3rd on Newsmax and former White House press secretary under President Trump, Marie Harf, executive director of Serve America PAC and a Fox News contributor, also a former press secretary.

Great to have both of you with us. So, Marie, he's going after Joe Biden who is well ahead in the South Carolina primary.

MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Joe Biden is probably going to have a good day, good night tomorrow, we should say. He's really far ahead in the polls and we'll see if that will give him a bump going into Super Tuesday.

Donald Trump is doing what he does best, he gives red meat to his base and that certainly works in these kinds of settings, but we will see if it works in the general election. The Fox News polling shows Joe Biden still beating Donald Trump head-to-head.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HARF: Another -- a number of other Democrats as well.

MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, when you look at the states where Democrats need to win, Sean, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, I mean, who on that Democratic stage can win those states with the possible exception of maybe Joe Biden?

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: May be. But I think tomorrow night Joe Biden, I agree with Marie, he's going to have a good night and you are going to walk out with the three Bs, Bernie, Bloomberg, Biden. And what that does is set up a contract that probably leads to a contested convention.

Because the Super Tuesday states are going to out about a third of the delegates and what's going to happen is, you're going to have someone -- no one able to get a majority before they had into Milwaukee. That's going to set up something that either the Bernie folks are going to feel like the election got stolen from them.

MACCALLUM: Or Bernie could come out on Super Tuesday with a whole --

SPICER: Sure.

MACCALLUM: -- slew of delegates.

SPICER: Right. But if he does, he still not going to get to a majority. And so, the question is, when they go to Milwaukee, are they going to let Bernie Sanders be the standard bearer for their party or are they going rest it from him.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SPICER: And either way isn't a good standard -- good solution.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Look at this Fox News poll. Fifty-six percent of those polled said that capitalism, they have a favorable opinion of capitalism. That's a pretty low number, folks, 56 percent. Twenty-eight percent say socialism sounds like a pretty good idea to them. Fourteen percent have no idea which one is better, capitalism or socialism.

SPICER: He say much about it, the education system.

MACCALLUM: Marie, you know, what do you make of it?

HARF: If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, he is going to have to define what Democratic socialism means to the American people, and that will be a question for how he does that. But when he's come out and says, you call me the socialist? Donald Trump has given billions of dollars of handouts to farmers because of his tariffs -- that's actually really what socialism looks like.

That's how Bernie Sanders will have to explain his programs to people. By the way, a lot of his programs quite popular among the American people despite the challenges with how you pay for that.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: I think Medicare for all is popular with a certain chunk of America.

HARF: It is.

MACCALLUM: But the one that doesn't get a lot of attention is that, he says he'd like to take over the electric grid and all of the utilities in, you know, like Mexico, right, where the government basically runs do these quasi-corporations all of the utilities in the country. And then I think people will go, well, what comes after that?

SPICER: The issue is, and Marie knows this. That politics is about perception. And the idea that you get stuck with the tag of being a socialist, you can't define it or describe it. Most people have a perception as to what that is.

And so, Bernie going out there and trying to say well, these corporate subsidies equal that, at the end of the day that's how the country has operated forever. Redefining socialism is not a good place for the Democratic Party to be going into a general election.

MACCALLUM: So, there were the Times piece --

(CROSSTALK)

HARF: The young voters --

MACCALLUM: Let me just say this. There's Times piece that said basically that there's enough superdelegates who are looking at the situation saying, I don't care what it does to the party, we're not going to let this happen.

SPICER: That's right.

MACCALLUM: And so, is that what's going to happen, Marie?

HARF: I think that would be disastrous if they -- if superdelegates took it away Bernie may not get a majority and then if it goes to a convention it's contested, that's the rules we should all play by them.

But what I was going to say to your answer about socialism, there is a generational gap here. Younger Americans do not have the same historical idea about socialism than older Americans do.

MACCALLUM: I mean, --

HARF: And so, that's an interesting generational gap as you head into election.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, when I was in college, I thought it sounded great. It's like, everybody got what everyone needed, why wouldn't we do it that way? It makes a lot of sense, you know. But Bernie -- Bernie Sanders still thinks that, you know, there is some good things about the Castro regime.

SPICER: Yes. I mean, he keeps talking about their literacy being a good thing. I mean, look, I think Marie is right. There's a divide between older and younger voters, I think that's reflected in that poll right now.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SPICER: But it's still not a good place to be having to define what socialism is.

MACCALLUM: Thanks, guys. Great to have you.

HARF: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: The Story continues next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Veterans of Iwo Jima from all over America are in D.C. this week ahead of tomorrow night's Iwo Jima Association of America gala to commemorate the 75th anniversary of that battle.

We tagged along as they took in museums and memorials dedicated to their service. And to the fellow marines who made the ultimate sacrifice. And for many the memories came flooding back. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BERGER, UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS: Every veteran on that campaign demonstrated the same uncommon valor. The persistence all the men who fought in the Battle of Iwo Jima symbolized the resolve to fight for the freedoms that you and I enjoy today. We must never forget what they did for the world.

TROY BLACK, SERGEANT MAJOR OF MARINE CORPS: The future is unknown but our history tells us that time and time again how we will remain dominant, how to fight, how to win, and how to always maintain our foundation as marines by those veterans who sit with us today.

SHAYNE JAROSZ, DIRECTOR, IWO JIMA ASSOCIATION: We took down all the vets after the Udvar-Hazy. The vets absolutely loved that. We then came back to the marine monument here and the commandant of the marine corps and the chairman of the joint chiefs had a special ceremony for the veterans.

FISKE HANLEY, WORLD WAR II VEETRAN: I got shot down over Japan. I'm a veteran. I got shot down in a B-29. Twenty percent of the bombs hit the edge of the island and blue blew sand in the air. And I am looking out my window and I don't like that. So, it was a totally lost cause.

This four-star general said you are a honorary marine now. That sand you blew in the air was only about eight inches thick and under that he said was solid Karl (Ph) rock. So, when we came in to land, we could not dig foxholes with our little shovels and so on. And so, 500-pound bomb holes were there made foxholes for us and you saved us. And I said, really? Iwo Jima is a great thing in my life.

BERGER: I heard somebody about 10 minutes ago capture it better than I could ever -- he says we served. He was a marine. He said we served. They saved the world. They saved the world. They did.

JAROSZ: I love being a marine. It's a piece of history. This will never happen again. It's monumental. To be able to be part of this and honor these gentlemen like this it's what it is all about.

BERGER: Everyone just take the opportunity, meet a World War II veteran, any veteran and to say thank you not just for your service but for giving us the great things we have in our nation today. Our freedoms.

JOHN THURMAN, IWO JIMA SURVIVOR: John S. Thurman, U.S. Marine Corps Fifth Division. I was in the first wave of Iwo Jima. I think it's an honor to those who didn't make it back. And I really feel that I'm still here. I made it. And I'm representing them. And I'm talking for them. Because I'm telling their story. This is an anniversary that I will never forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I will have the honor of being with those men tomorrow and tomorrow night as part of that commemoration.

That is The Story of Friday, February 28th. As always, The Story continues on Sunday. I will be in Florida to sign my new book about Iwo Jima called "Unknown Valor." And then on Monday night at 6.30. Bret Baier and I will host democracy 2020 town hall with presidential candidate Mike Bloomberg live from Manassas, Virginia. Have a great weekend, everybody. I will see you back here on Monday night. Take care.

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