Rep. Jim Jordan, Rep.-elect Chip Roy on why GOP lost House

This is a rush transcript from "Life, Liberty & Levin," November 11, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARK LEVIN, HOST: Hello, America. This is "Life, Liberty &Levin," and I'm Mark Levin and we have two great guests -- Jim Jordan, how are you, sir?

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: Doing fine, Mark. Good to be with you.

LEVIN: Chip Roy, good to see you.

CONGRESSMAN ELECT CHIP ROY, R-TEXAS: Good to see you, Mark.

LEVIN: You don't need much of an introduction.

JORDAN: I don't know about that.

LEVIN: Well, in 2006 May, you won the Republican primary race for the Fourth Congressional District of Ohio.

JORDAN: Yes.

LEVIN: And you've won ever since. You have 100% lifetime rating from the Ohio Taxpayers Association. You're one of the founders of the House Freedom Caucus. Chip Roy, I know you very, very well. You've been long time conservative activist in the State of Texas. You also were Chief of Staff to Ted Cruz for a period of time, and you're now a newly elected member of Congress from the 21st District of Texas.

ROY: Yes, sir.

LEVIN: Well, we had an important election and people are messaging about this election. We picked up a few seats in the Senate. We lost three dozen seats or so in the House of Representatives. I understood the President's message. He was all over the country campaigning. He was very, very focused on what he was campaigning about -- the economy, immigration. I understood the Senate side -- Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh -- among some other important things.

But here is the problem. I still don't know what the House of Representatives on the Republican side was running on. I still don't know what the message was and I would have thought with economy as it was going, and the President out there, while it wasn't a blue wave by any means, why did they take so many seats, Jim Jordan?

JORDAN: Well, you are right. I don't think we matched on the House side in our race. I don't think we matched the intensity that the President has displayed here in this town taking on the establishment, taking on the swamp, taking on this the town, and remember everywhere the President went, he made a huge difference. You talk about Missouri, you talk about Indiana, you talk about Florida - we've got a Freedom Caucus guy who is now the Governor of the State for Florida, one of our largest states.

LEVIN: Ron deSantis.

JORDAN: He came to Ohio on the Monday before. Projections were we might lose all state wide races, we won them all but one, and that's because the President came to Ohio. So the President - there was an intensity and energy about this guy that the American people appreciate. They saw that marched in the Senate what Senate stood up and defended Kavanaugh, but they haven't seen it from the House. I mean, have we replaced Obamacare, have we reformed welfare? Have we secured the border? Those are the three biggest promises he made to the American people.

LEVIN: The leadership there would say, "Well, wait a minute, we sent that stuff to the Senate." Is that true?

JORDAN: Some of that went to the Senate, only healthcare bill, we didn't do a welfare reform package yet, and we certainly haven't secured the border. We had a good bill, as you know, Mark that we all supported as conservatives that Chip was campaigning on the campaign trail, but we only got 193 votes because we could not get enough Republicans to do what we said we were going to do.

So the message should have been in this campaign, we've accomplished what we told you we were going to do, more importantly what you elected us to do in 2016. That should have been the message, but we couldn't say that, because all we really had done - all we had really gotten done was the tax cut.

So this is going forward, we have to regain the trust of the American people, and get accomplished those, so if you put us back in power, we're going to get those things done.

LEVIN: Chip Roy, what did you campaign on in your successful race?

ROY: So my message was pretty simple. I ran as Congressman Jordan just alluded to, I ran on securing border, I ran on healthcare freedom and I ran on balancing the budget, and these are things that Republicans have said they would do for a long time, but failed to do.

And if you want to know what happened, you don't need to look any further than the fact that Republicans literally failed to do what they said they would do over the last several years. I think that this is a clear symptom of leadership failing to do their job, to paint with bright colors, to use the language that Reagan used.

We had the opportunity of a lifetime to actually gain in a midterm, the American people were hungry. I can tell you, my district, they are hungry for leadership, they are happy to see the President shaking things up in Washington, breaking the status quo, getting rid of 15 regulations for every one new regulation. Getting us out of the clean power plants so called, getting us out of the Paris agreement, making sure we've got good judges.

But I can tell you this, had it not been for the Democrats blatant overreach in the Kavanaugh hearing, reenergizing our base, your base was demoralized in sitting back because the House leadership and the House Republicans weren't giving them a reason to support them. I don't literally even know what message was from House Republicans on what they were trying to sell. I know who I sold and it worked, and people listened.

LEVIN: But this is a good point, I can't even tell you today what the position of - in the aggregate, the Republicans, was in the House and I can't tell you what position is today going forward for the Republicans in the House. Is this why you helped found the Freedom Caucus? To bring to floor these conservative positions and principles.

JORDAN: Totally, our mission statement talks about countless number of families who feel like this town has forgotten them, our job to remember them and fight for them, and to do it with a smile on our face. I always tell people, you know, we're conservatives we've got the truth on our side.

I love what the Vice President - the Vice President Pence says a great line. He says, "I am a conservative and I'm not mad about it." Right? That should be our approach. We've got the truth on our side, but let's go fight - that is what your voters want. They want to see an intensity, a passion for things that made our country special in the first place.

They see that in our President. I mean, I put this list together and I said it for the last several months across the campaign trail. Think about this, in 21 months under his leadership, Mark, taxes cut, regulations reduced, economy growing at 4.2%, lowest unemployment in 50 years, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on the Court; out of the Iran deal, embassy in Jerusalem, hostages home from North Korea, and oh, by the way, we also have a new NAFTA agreement. That's pretty amazing.

But tell us, what was House, what was the Congress's contribution to that? Certainly, the Senate helped on the Supreme Court justices, and certainly we helped on the tax cut. But the other big things, the biggest promises we made to voters in 2016, we have not got those done. We've got to the same kind of energy and passion about getting those done that the President has on all the things he's accomplished.

LEVIN: Chip Roy, let me ask you this, securing the border, controlling spending, repealing government control over healthcare. Do you get a sense that the Republican Party in the House of Representatives is going to push that agenda even in face of the radicals who will taking over these various committees? Isn't it an obligations of the Republican Party to have their own agenda and get on the floor of the House, and get on TV and radio and press their case over and over again? I get the sense that everybody is out for themselves. I get the sense it's a bunch of squirrels that are not herded. What do you think?

ROY: I said something, the other day with some of the folks who have supported me and I said, "I am not running for Congress in order to run to get reelected," and that's unfortunately too often the case, with too many people in Washington on both sides of the aisle, that they get here and the first thing they start thinking about is moving levers to get reelected. That is not why you are here.

You are here because you know the greatness in country that is being held back by a government that is too much in the way of their ability to manage their own lives, at the state level and in their homes and their families. We will make a terrible mistake as Republicans, if we allow the Democrats lurch to the left, which they'll no doubt do in Committees and going after impeachment proceedings or whatever they might do. If we let that define the narrative instead of Republicans then painting with a bright picture about what America looks like when we allow people to live free; free from the burdens of government, we know we've got a message that will excite them and get them enthusiastic and not just our base, but Americans across the country.

And whether it's healthcare freedom, whether it's to secure the border, the basic function of the sovereign nation, to secure your border, and to make sure you have a balanced budget, in what world is that a partisan issue? Twenty one and a half trillion dollars of debt, $65,000.00 for every man, woman and child in America. That is extraordinary.

LEVIN: Two things going on. Republican leadership, Democrat leadership. They seem to be focused, myopically, it may not be easy, I mean, maybe they will have a majority of 17, something like that, these new members coming out of Republican districts, they're going to have to be a little bit nervous, a couple of dozen of them coming out of the Republican suburbs. They may be one termers if they are not careful.

But typically, what they do is they go left in Washington and then they go home and lie about who they are. So, these two sort of forces, if the Republicans in the House don't get their act together, they are going to be crushed by the Democrats on Senate side.

JORDAN: You're so right. You are so right, and Chip just said it, if we're not clear and compelling and articulate on issues that count, the ones you just talked about, we're about to enter a world with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker, Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, Elijah Cummings and Jerry Nadler running the key committees. We're going to enter that world.

If we're not willing to stand up and fight for the things that count with American people that they sent us here to fight for, we're going to be in trouble. I think it important to step back and think of the environment we're going into. And what - we saw it yesterday, we saw it this week, this past week with Jeff Sessions stepping down as Attorney General and all the comments that came from the left, from Nadler, from Elizabeth Warren ...

LEVIN: Constitutional crisis.

JORDAN: Oh, my goodness, so this is the world we're about to enter and if we're not willing to stand up and fight, and be clear and compelling about it. We're going to be in big trouble.

LEVIN: Well, I'm a little concerned about this. A lot of this depends on the ranking Republicans on these various committees, and if they are not prepared to take out the brass knuckles, it's going to be one ugly fight and with them on top and us on bottom constantly.

JORDAN: Every week. Be prepared to do it every single day in Congress. Because that's - it's going to be that intense, you are right.

LEVIN: Well, you know, and you watch some of these hearings that Republicans had, the House Oversight Committee as an example and the Judiciary Committee --

JORDAN: I'm on both, yes.

LEVIN: You are on both of them, what do the Democrats do? They disrupted them as if they were members of CNN or something at a press conference. They were disrupting the committee hearing, so the Republican message and effort couldn't even get out, I doubt the Republicans are even capable of that.

JORDAN: And we shouldn't disrupt for disruption's sake like they do, we should have the debate. We've got the truth on our side. Let's defend the truth, let's defend the facts. Let's have the debate. All too often what happens in Congress is we show up - my background is wrestling. Wrestling is you step on the mat, you shake hands, the rep blows a whistle and you go at it, and you are trying to kick his tail. But when it's done, you stand up and shake hands afterwards.

What we typically do is we get in there and we shake hands and right before the rep blows the whistle, we say, "Time out. We're just going to forfeit. We're just going to let you guys do what you want and we'll kind of maybe say a few thing ..." like this is - in the world of Maxine Waters and Elijah Cummings and Jerry Nadler and Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff, you had better show up with the attitude. We are going to take the fight to them.

ROY: And let's call them out for having prejudged all of this in the first place. They are campaigning on impeachment. Well, what is impeachment, right? It is the equivalent - you're a former Federal prosecutor, you know that, it's the equivalent of a grand jury, and yet you're going to - would you pick a grand jury and allow them to be filled with people that already prejudged the case, yet we know that is precisely what they have done. So let's call them out for.

Go back and get all of the remarks of saying they've already decided they are going to impeach Kavanaugh or impeach the President, and then let's get focused back and give speeches and go out and mobilize people to call the House out for failing to do their job and that's what we need to focus on, whether it's Republicans or Democrats, they have a job, balance the budget. We really shouldn't even leave town until we just get together and balance that budget and appropriate to that budget, that's what the American people have to do in their homes, it's what the State of Texas has do to do. Why do we even allow them to go there and leave town without balancing the budget?

LEVIN: Let me ask you both a question because I have been thinking about these coming investigations because they're all geared up. They are very excited on the left, as leftists always are when they are trying to destroy the other side. They go after they go after President's taxes, they go after the President's businesses, and they go after his kids' businesses. They go after all of this private activity. The Constitution provides for congressional oversight for legislative purposes. There no legislative purpose in getting the President's taxes. There is no legislative purpose in going into this business dealings or anything of the sort in this massive fishing expedition.

So if I am the President of the United States, I say, "I'll see you in court," because you know what, this isn't constitutional. All you are trying to do is destroy the ability of the executive branch to function. Are you guys prepared to make that argument?

JORDAN: Heck, yes, and because think about it in the context we're in. They want to do that, but when we want to get to the bottom of something the Federal government specific to the executive branch, more specifically the FBI and the DOJ did, that was I believe unconstitutional, where they took one party's opposition research document, dressed it up, took it to the secret court to get a warrant to spy on the other party's campaign, they want to stonewall that.

So we had better make that argument loud and clear and we better continue to get to the bottom of what the FBI did when Secretary Clinton's campaign paid the Perkins Coie law firm who paid Fusion GPS, who went and hired a foreigner to go talk to Russians to put together a fake dossier --

LEVIN: Do you think the Democrats are going to look into this?

JORDAN: They're not, but we better keep raising this issue because that is as wrong as anything I've seen. They are not going to focus on that at all of course, but they are going to go do the things you just described that are unconstitutional.

LEVIN: All right, when we come back, I want to pursue this issue of whether or not in fact, the House majority has the power to go into some of the areas they seek to go into -- better not, governmental related, better not really legislative related, but their purpose is to sabotage the executive branch.

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Welcome back, Chip Roy, newly minted, soon to be member of Congress. I want to get back to this issue of these hearings where they are going to be pushing out all of these subpoenas. I believe in congressional oversight, strongly. The FBI, the Department of Justice, the intelligence agencies, our tax money goes into these places. These are institutions that are authorized by Congress, they are funded by Congress, you have Federal employees involved in activity. It has nothing to do with some of these tax returns. It has nothing to do with a private enterprise that's worth billions and billions of dollars where members of Congress sit there and say, "I'm going to pretend I am an IRS agent, and I am going to dig into this stuff and I'm going to spew it out there and I'm going to give to my friends at CNN and MSNBC. I am going to sabotage this administration. I am going to drag it down."

Former Federal prosecutor, the Trump administration says, "We're more than happy to work with you on matters of official conduct, on matters involving the administration, however, I have a blanket rule out there, anything involving my family, and me, and our personal finances, you don't get anything." What about that argument?

ROY: Well, I think you are exactly right, and I think - you know, I think about through these lines that when we talk about separation of powers and what our job is in Congress to oversee the executive branch, and it's critically important that be done, that's meant for, as you pointed out before, constitutional purposes. It's meant about the power of the executive branch being used in its official duties in what it is trying to do, and whether or not it's constitutional, whether or not they are following the law, that's the job of Congress.

The job of Congress isn't to go down fishing expeditions for personal assault or going after the President's family. That's not what it's about. It's about protecting the Constitution and frankly, you want to make Article I great again, which is something I talked about on the campaign trail, Article I Congress, then Congress needs to reassert itself in governance, in passing laws, in not turning over power to the bureaucracy in the executive branch. They need to do their job in representing the people. That's where I think that we're missing the boat.

JORDAN: In the end, it is about freedom. There is a big difference between the IRS targeting people for their political beliefs and going after those folks and holding them accountable which we've tried to do. There is a big difference in the FBI dong what they did and us trying to hold them accountable than it is going after people's personal finances and what the left is now telling us they're going to try to do to the President and his family, that is - it's ultimately about freedom.

And I would argue today, and I don't mean this to sound overly dramatic, but I think freedom is under attack. You are seeing it from all - we had a hearing, Mark, where we had college professors and I asked this one college professor at this hearing, I said, "Professor, on a safe space or in a safe space on a college campus, could I say this sentence, Donald Trump is President," his response began with, "Well, Congressman it depends."

I interrupted him, and I said, "It's a fact, there is no it depends about it. He was elected on November 8, 2016. He was sworn in January 20, 2017. He lives at 1600 Pennsylvania. He is the President of the greatest country ever. There is no it depends." But that is where the left's crazy thinking when freedom is attacked. That's where it takes us.

So this is fundamental. This is so fundamental. We should hold agencies accountable when they come in after your personal liberties, any American's personal liberties. But when Congress is going to use their power to go after the President just because they want to dig into his business finances, give me a break.

LEVIN: Well, they will camouflage it. The very party that rejects so that is in the Constitution and its original interpretation, who will not waiver on the Constitution and say, the emolument's clause. You see they now found a clause, not a pretend clause. They found a clause, the emolument's clause and they will say, "This is why we need to determine if the President of the United States finances are appropriate or Russia collusion, to see if he got anything from Russia or anything like that."

That is no basis for oversight. What they are trying to do there is lay a fake foundation for an impeachment. The oversight function is a legislative function, they are trying to figure out - you all are trying to figure out appropriations. Maybe we need to rejigger an agency, maybe we need to eliminate a program or something like that. You don't get to look over President's shoulder and look at his finances.

Now, let me ask you this question, so if somebody is wealthy, and they get elected President of United States, will this now be the new pattern? If the Democrats can drag a wealthy Republican President through the dirt, now the Republicans, let's say this guy, Bloomberg gets elected, you know what? You're three or four times wealthier, reportedly than this President. We want your tax returns. We want to know did you ever talk to reporters, we want to know about all of your business - and so is this going to be the new trend?

ROY: Well, I think there is no question that when they sort of open Pandora's box, that is the direction that it goes, and then where does that stop? And where does it go with respect to people who are working in the administration and Congress?

But again, all of this stuff is taking all the eyes off of the prize of what the American people actually want to see accomplished. And you are talking about freedom being under assault. It is under assault because Republicans have just laid down on the ground, and they won't stand up to defend freedom.

Whether we're talking about what we're talking about here with the misuse of government power to go after people in the administration and the President's family or whether it is failing to actually articulate the cause of freedom and stand up on the issues that we believe in, of course, the left is going to take advantage of that. We saw that with - why so many Democrat run as openly socialist and Democrat in their agenda.

LEVIN: By the way, most of them lost.

ROY: That's right, but they also got millions of votes in part because some of our people did not stand up and proudly trumpet freedom and the issues that we know we want to stand by.

LEVIN: Isn't this one of the reason people - the conservative base love Donald Trump --

ROY: Yes.

LEVIN: As a matter of fact, during the Kavanaugh hearings, all of a sudden, there is Lindsey Graham. Now, Lindsey Graham is really appreciated by conservatives and so many more people because he gave that still "a Spartacus" type speech, right?

JORDAN: Yes, and sure enough, they want to see you fight for the things that count, that is what they want to see and they want to see that particularly in light of the context we are in now. Think about today's left. Today's left says, we're going to applaud Kaepernick when he disrespects the flag, we're going to embrace Governor Cuomo when stands up and says, "America was never that great," and we're going to cheer on Maxine Waters when she says, "Go out and harass anyone, anyone who supports the President," that's today's left.

And our conservative - and I think most Americans with common sense say, "We want someone to stand up and fight that," that's not who we are and what our country - that's not why our nation is such a great nation. Fight that and they see the President doing. They need to see more from Congress doing the same thing.

ROY: And that is why left is emboldened to put out things like Medicare for all, right, they are going out there saying, "You know what I believe? I believe in healthcare freedom or healthcare for all," allowing people to be able to access the doctors of their choice, to have somebody who can come to your house, you can pay him $100.00 a month and have access to and have their cell phone. You can have nurses, you can have insurance that you carry from one job to the next. These are all things that we can do if we'll stand up and fight for them to lower the cost of healthcare. And we go down that path for a while talking about it, but we turned over the field to the Democrats, by saying that we're going to play on their field on preexisting conditions and see them ground on that.

LEVIN: Isn't this one of the things Reagan used to do? Jack Kemp used to do? They used to say, enterprise zones, tax cuts across the board. They used to talk about freedom. They could be very positive.

ROY: Aspirational.

LEVIN: They used to embrace - aspirational - they used to embrace our principles and then the Democrats are stuck sounding like green-eyed shade bureaucrats.

ROY: That's right, and we instead seed the ground to the left and we say, as Republicans did in this election, we said, "Oh, well, we'll offer preexisting conditions coverage sort of because we need to, because you guys are talking about it," instead of proudly proclaiming what this country can provide in terms of low-cost awesome healthcare that people around the world flock to our shores to get because they are under the thumb of government run healthcare in Canada and England. Instead, our guys run to the hills. That needs to change and that's what we're going to be working to do.

LEVIN: We'll be right back.

ANITA VOGEL, CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: This is a Fox News Alert. I'm Anita Vogel. The death toll from the devastating wild fire in Northern California has grown to 29, matching deadliest wildfire in the state's recorded history of the state. The so-called campfire incinerated the town of Paradise practically wiping it off the map. Authorities there are announcing that the remains of six more victims were found today and that there are 228 people still unaccounted for. And at least five search teams are combing through ruins of the town, aided by a mobile DNA lab and a team of anthropologists. And another fire in Southern California killed two people in Malibu, bringing the statewide death toll up to 31. Gusty winds overnight and into Monday are expected to challenge firefighters who are battling to contain the fires burning in both ends of the state. I'm Anita Vogel, now let's go back to "Life, Liberty & Levin."

LEVIN: I'm back with Chip Roy and Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan, so the President of the United States through his Chief of Staff tells the Attorney General he wants his resignation. The Attorney General is a very decent man, a good man, and by the way, may run again for his old seat and I think he's an excellent senator. There may have been a mismatch in terms of the Department of Justice.

And so, they appoint his Chief of Staff, a former US Attorney to be the acting Attorney General. So first we have the so-called experts on TV saying, "That is not right. You've got to follow succession." Well, of course, that is wrong. So he is the acting Attorney General. Then we get the gaggle of leftists out there saying, it is a constitutional crisis unless the acting Attorney General recuses himself from the investigation. The acting Attorney General had nothing to do with anything. Why should he recuse himself?

JORDAN: He shouldn't.

LEVIN: And meanwhile Rosenstein is there with all kinds of conflicts. Can you explain that to me?

JORDAN: You are right, and Mr. Whitaker should not recuse himself. Mr. Rosenstein has a conflict he's had from the very beginning.

LEVIN: And what is that?

JORDAN: He wrote the memo that became the basis for firing James Comey that the left says, "Oh that's obstruction of justice." Mr. Rosenstein is now overseeing the special counsel whom he pointed, Robert Mueller and Robert Mueller is looking into was there obstruction of justice into the firing of James Comey? You've got to be kidding me. And we've pointed this out --

LEVIN: So he is a witness to that.

JORDAN: Of course. We've pointed this out from day one, but Mr. Rosenstein, says no, it is all fine. The other problem with Rod Rosenstein is, we have asked for the McCabe memos, sorry, you are not going to see them. They have even been subpoenaed by Congress. We have asked to see parts of the FISA, sorry, we're not going to show it even though everyone in Congress has a clearance. We've asked to see the Bruce Ohr 302s, we've asked to see Jim Baker, former --

LEVIN: Let me stop you there, 302s are the FBI interview notes.

JORDAN: Yes, those are the notes when Bruce Ohr whose wife worked for the company who hired Christopher Steele who put together --

LEVIN: You know all of this going to come to an end.

JORDAN: That's why we've got a lot of work to do between now and the first of year when the --

LEVIN: But my question is this, just as a - you're a former Federal prosecutor, just as a constitutional rationale matter, why would an acting Attorney General have to recuse himself because the Democrats demand that he recuses himself?

ROY: The Democrats are the same people. I saw something yesterday where Elizabeth Warren is saying this is a constitutional crisis. You remember in June of 2017, it was a crisis because Jeff Sessions was the Attorney General. I mean, they can't get any of their stories straight. They are looking for a crisis where there isn't one, and unfortunately, ignore the ones where there are problems.

And that's what we've seen time and time again, and frankly, it's partly though why the American people are so frustrated is seeing this continued pursuit, continued coming down a rabbit trail, and instead of focusing on issues they care about. None of this is making anybody's lives better, and taking care of their healthcare or taking care of food on their plates, making sure they've got jobs and food and shelter and clothing, all of this is DC being the swamp at its worse.

JORDAN: Here is one of the thing though guys about Rod Rosenstein. It's alleged that he said he was going to wear a wire and record the Commander in Chief of our great country. It's alleged that he was talking about the 25th Amendment, all in that critical time frame between March 9th when his memo was the basis for firing James Comey and March 17, 2017 when he named Bob Mueller. This is all supposed to have happened in that timeframe and he won't answer our questions. That is wrong.

LEVIN: They talk about the Saturday night massacre. This is like the - I want the younger viewers to know, like the Saturday night massacre, you know the Saturday night massacre, Richard Nixon - at least it is getting better. They have been comparing our President to Hitler, now they are comparing him to Nixon, so you know, we are moving down the line here.

But the Saturday night massacre, Nixon ordered his Attorney General to fire the special counsel, Archibald Cox. He refused and resigned. And then he ordered the Deputy Attorney General. He refused and he resigned and he did. Next in line, he directed Robert Bork the Solicitor of the United States, he said, "Look, I don't agree with it, but somebody has to do it." He is the President, he is the Executive branch," and he fired him.

That is why they kept him off the Supreme Court, by the way, has the President of the United States ordered anybody to fire Mr. Mueller?

JORDAN: He said just the opposite. He said just the opposite. Let him complete his investigation because there's nothing there and guess what? There is nothing there. There has been not one bit of evidence to show any type of coordination, collusion, conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia's influence to the election, but we know the Clinton campaign like I said before, hired the law firm who hired Fusion, who hired Christopher Steele, a foreigner, who then wend and did what? Talked to Russians to do what? Put together a fake dossier, that was the basis - this is what just - I cannot believe this happened in our country.

It was the basis for the FBI going to a secret court, to get a warrant so they could spy on the other campaign, and the Democrats say, "Oh, nothing there." What? Are you kidding me?

LEVIN: Chip Roy, what about media's role here? The media clearly - they can't disguise it anymore. They've sided one political party against the other. The obviously are very excited about what the Democrats are going to do. I mean, after the election, it was clear the Democrats were taking the House, Jake Tapper on CNN excitedly and repeatedly was talking about all the subpoenas that are going to fly, and maybe the I word - impeachment will be brought up and so they definitely have the media on their side.

We saw this press conference the other day where CNN's representative Jim Acosta, literally, was trying to disrupt and sabotage the press conference. The purpose of a Presidential press conference is for, we, the people to find out what is going on, not for people to become provocative and make news.

So you guys, the Republicans, you are not going to have the press, most of the press on your side but hasn't that always been the case?

ROY: Look, there is no question that there has been bias in media. I mean, I grew up as a child in the Reagan era, and I remember watching all of these press briefings. You have Sam Donaldson sitting there sparring with Ronald Reagan and so forth, but I think there is a certain edge to today's media that is a little different even and it's even worse.

What we saw with Acosta is terrible. But Acosta is all about himself. The White House for him is a prop, right? He is using that to leverage and promote himself. It's not about journalism and seeking the truth. He is making opinion news. He doesn't even need to be in the White House in order to do what he does, right? He can opine about it from the back benches somewhere. The reality is that they are using this for a show and to prop themselves up instead of honoring their responsibility in a free press and democracy to seek the truth wherever it may be.

LEVIN: Well that press conference and the media was an absolute disgrace and they disgraced themselves in front - not just the country, but the entire world and it is not their job to disrupt a press conference. They can ask tough questions, but - and also to push away - and he did push away the White House intern and so it was really quite disgraceful. We'll be right back.

LEVIN: Jim Jordan, immigration is a big issue. But apparently not to the majority in the House, but it's still a big issue to the majority in the Senate. So I assume nothing will come out of the House of Representatives out of the Democrats to secure the border because they believe that helps them electorally in every other way, and they actually want to change the nature of the electorate and the voter and turn some of these purple states blue and red states purple. Is there anything that can be done in House or anything the Senate can do?

JORDAN: We will see. I would argue, it's also a majority issue - for the majority of the country, it is a big issue. Look, I think it is tough because remember where they are at. Their leader of their party, Secretary Clinton said she wants a borderless hemisphere. That many of their members have said they want to abolish ICE and never secure the border. It's tough to work with - I mean, Chip said it best earlier. One of the things that defines you as a nation is you have boundaries and borders. Part of a being a sovereign nation is you should be able to control your border.

The idea that one major party in our country doesn't want to do that, it's tough to work with them. So I guess, we can if they see the light and actually want to have a border, security wall, secure the border, have it happen in a legal way, but it's tough, and you think about every issue from chain migration, asylum reform, sanctuary cities. The whole visa lottery, all of those things - they're not with us there, so it's going to be tough, that's why with elections, they're so important.

LEVIN: Let me make a suggestion to you on this. When Reagan was President, he never had the House of Representatives. He shut down the government six times on key issues that he wanted to take care of. The MX missile, the trident missile, other things and he got a lot of what he wanted and he went over the head of the Democrats in the House, and he spoke to the American people directly.

If the President of the United States wants to secure that border and the spending bills come - a massive spending bill, Mitch McConnell was very proud of themselves the other day that they were getting all of these appropriation bills, the biggest spending than any time in American history, and the Republicans better watch this.

Isn't it time to say, "Okay, now this is what I want, and this is what we're going to do or we will shut down the government, and when we shut it down, we will win more elections," because that is the pattern. The President takes charge, shuts it down, the American people see leadership, they want that border secured. It's that - in other words, we're not without power.

ROY: Absolutely, I mean, I was proud to be Senator Cruz's Chief of Staff in 2013 and worked with Jim and a lot of great folks in the House to try to make sure that we stood up to defund Obamacare because we knew it was going to cause premiums to go up and they've doubled and tripled since, so I am proud of what we tried to do there.

And frankly, we would have succeeded if some folks hadn't run to the hills crying in the corner and saying that shutting down the government is somehow going to cause this election when in fact, it doesn't.

It caused us to gain seats then in 2014, it caused us to be able to win the presidency in 2016. Immigration is one of those issues that we need to turn back around on the Democrats. I am tired of letting them take the high ground in their opinion that somehow they are pro-immigrant, when the worst thing they could do is in the false name of compassion, in open borders, have women and children getting sold into the sex trafficking business, have women riding on the top of train cars, empowering the cartels because we refuse to do our basic job as a sovereign nation and secure our border, we need to turn that back around on the Democrats.

It is they who have blood on their hands with what is happening on the border, to these children and these kids. And by the way, go down and spend a day on the border. Let's have hearings down in Loreto, Texas. Let's talk to the Border Patrol Union who is down there who endorsed me in my campaign and I was proud of it. The 72 miles of the Loreto Sector, how many miles that do you think have not just a fence, but have even a road that's navigable along the Rio Grande, two miles. They can't see the river because the cane is too thick. They don't have cell signals. They don't have radio signals. They don't have operational control of the border. The cartels do and it's because we refuse to do our jobs.

LEVIN: How do we fix it, and the answer to me, take it to them.

JORDAN: Remember this Congress, the one time the government was shut down is when Chuck Schumer said amnesty was more important than talking to our troops and the American people two days later said, "You are you are crazy," and he said, "Shazam, I'm going to open the government back up." He got the message.

ROY: But then we didn't take advantage of it.

JORDAN: We blue our chance just a few weeks later on the big spending bill. We could have gotten the border security wall if we would have been willing to engage in the debate and after all, we've got a guy in the White House who is pretty good at communicating with the American people, pretty darn good at it and if we engage the President or the President engages and we are unified in doing this, we can win some of these things.

LEVIN: Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget, almost every week night, you can watch me on Levin TV, Levin TV. Go to crtv.com/mark and sign up, crtv.com/mark or give us a call at 844-LEVIN-TV, 844-LEVIN-TV. We'll be right back.

You know, we're the majority in House, and a bigger Republican majority in the Senate, our President, he has to adjust the President on how he manages Congress, but he does have tools in his tool kit. We just talked about it, no bill is a law until he signs it. No appropriation is made until he agrees to it. Almost nothing happens.

You guys in Congress, soon to be, you look up there at the White House. You look at a very, very powerful position. The White House looks back at Congress. They say, "Well, these are very, very powerful people."

Here is the thing, Chuck Schumer is not the smartest guy in the world. This amnesty thing blew up in his face and the Kavanaugh situation blew up in his face. The President helped us win seats, so did Chuck Schumer. If not for Chuck Schumer, the radical left in the Senate, the whole Kavanaugh thing wouldn't have happened.

Same with the House of Representatives. The radicals are now in charge. Every single committee -- LA, San Francisco, Baltimore, Manhattan -- you know, it's a big country in between and they're going to be watching, too. These aren't the brightest light bulbs either. So there are governing opportunities for the minority in the House and there is certainly governing opportunities for the President and the majority in the Senate.

Here is my concern, unless they are willing to institute the battles, I look at the Senate. Mitch McConnell is there. He always goes out, we're not going to shut down the government and he has taken the most powerful tool a President has away from him to control and direct spending when he has the House of Representative that's hostile to him. How do you think this is going to play out?

ROY: Well, I think it is a mistake if Senate leadership takes those tools off the table. That is what they did in 2013, which led us to have to back away from where we were in trying to defund Obamacare.

Keep those tools on the table so that we can win the argument, and force the question, call the question. Let's take these things to the American people and not be afraid to run on the things and try to execute the things what we're running on.

I think spending is a core issue that we can focus on right now. We failed to balance the budget and do our job when Republicans had control of the House, now let's get busy doing our job and focus on balancing the budget and we can do that and force the question that President and the Senate Republicans will make us do that.

JORDAN: Yes, no one wants a government shutdown. The only one who has done it in this Congress is Chuck Schumer, but why is it when we are standing up doing what we were elected to do, what the American people sent the President here to do, what they sent the Congress members here to do, why is that somehow shutting down the government, this is - I don't want it, no one want it, but I do want to do what we were sent here to do. I do want to do what they told us that we should do when they gave us the privilege to come serve, so let's have that debate.

All too often, Chip is right, all too often, what we do is we don't even engage in the debate, let's have the debate, I think we can win because we have got common sense and the truth on our side.

LEVIN: And isn't the evidence that doing right thing is politically smart, too.

ROY: Absolutely, every single time.

LEVIN: And I'll even go further that doing conservative things are politically smart, too.

JORDAN: Yes.

LEVIN: A lot of the Republicans who lost these House races were not conservatives. They ran away from their principles, they were trying to cut the baby in half, they were imitating sort of soft Democrats, if you will, and so the base may not have turned out. All of this talk about female in the suburbs, I think a lot of these people who lost is because conservatives, they may have voted in the Senate, they may have voted for governors, but say said, "What the hell is the House doing?"

JORDAN: It never hurts to do what you say. It never hurts to keep your promises and when we do that, it's good politics and more importantly, it is good for the country.

ROY: It works every time.

LEVIN: We'll be right back.

Chip Roy, Jim Jordan, one question. Chip, are you optimistic about the next two years or not?

ROY: I'm absolutely optimistic because I believe in the American people and I believe that if you empower the American people and if we allow states to agree to disagree, allow Texas to be Texas, allow California to be California and we work together to empower the people, we'll succeed every time.

A thousand people a day are moving to Texas because of freedom because Texas is leading the world in oil and gas exploration and job creation and it's the place to survive. And I had a woman who came up to me and said, "You've got to win this election, Chip, because we need to save Texas from Washington, because I moved here from California two weeks ago," and I've got that on the trail all of the time, and I am very optimistic.

JORDAN: Yes, I mean, look, we are Americans. Of course, we're optimistic. Greatest country ever. There's a scripture verse I love, 2 Timothy 4:7 and Paul says, fight the good fight, finish the course, keep the faith. I believe the vast majority of this country believes that verse -- fight, finish, keep -- we keep doing those things, we are going to be just fine and we are going to continue to be best country ever.

LEVIN: And I have a different Bible verse, an eye for an eye.

JORDAN: Boy, does that not surprise me.

LEVIN: Don't forget it, Chip Roy. A pleasure.

ROY: Thank you, sir.

LEVIN: Good luck to you in the House.

ROY: Thank you.

LEVIN: Jim Jordan, go get them.

JORDAN: You bet, thanks.

LEVIN: See you next time on "Life, Liberty & Levin."

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