Rep. Gaetz on grilling Wray and Rosenstein at fiery hearing

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," June 28, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: So this is a Fox News alert. Good evening, everybody. I am Martha MacCallum, live tonight from Orlando. Where moments ago, we wrapped up the Florida Republican gubernatorial debate but we have also of course have been monitoring this tragic situation that is unfolding this evening in Maryland.

Hours ago, a gunman opened fire at the Capital Gazette newspaper in Annapolis, killing five people and wounding several others.

This is a live look at the scene right now. We do expect authorities will be giving us another update in about a half an hour from now. We will take you live to that.

As of right now, we know very little about the suspect. We do know that he is in custody, he's being questioned. He is a white male and we are told that he has not been cooperative with investigators thus far.

Meanwhile, witnesses describing the scene as chaotic. They say that people were diving underneath their desks as the shots rang out. Video also capturing dozens of people as they were running out of the building with their hands held high, we seen these scenes too many times in America and this is the response according to what was seen in terms of the police and their actions. Watch.


STEVE SCHUH, EXECUTIVE, ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY: The shooter is in our custody and being interrogated as we speak. I want to acknowledge the tremendous work of our public safety professionals today. They were on the scene in about 60 seconds.

But beyond that, they went immediately into that building without a moment hesitation and demonstrated incredible courage.


MACCALLUM: So Trace Gallagher has been reporting on this since it happened and he joins us live from our west coast newsroom with more this evening. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, the Associated Press is now reporting that police have finally identified the shooter, although they are not releasing his name and there are conflicting reports about his age. Some say he's mid-20s, NBC is reporting he is 39 and was I.D.'d using facial recognition software.

It took a while because he wasn't carrying identification and would not cooperate with police and had damaged his fingers, making it difficult to get prints.

But having his name now gives police access to his records and social media footprint, potentially opening the door to a possible motive. Police say the man walked into the Capital Gazette, shot through the glass door and then began shooting at employees.

Capital crime reporter Phil Davis tweeted, quoting, "There is nothing more terrifying than hearing multiple people get shot while you are under your desk, and then hear the gunmen reload."

Davis went on to give an interview to the Baltimore Sun, the parent company of the Capital Gazette where he said, quoting again, "I'm a police reporter, I write about the stuff. Not necessarily to this extent but shootings and death all the time. But as much as I'm going to try to articulate how traumatizing it is to be hiding under your desk, you don't know until you are there and you feel helpless." Ending with, quote, "I don't know why, I don't know why he stopped." Meaning, stop shooting.

We do know that police arrived within 60 seconds and there was no exchange of gunfire with the suspect, but the shooter was reportedly carrying fake grenades, smoke bombs and flash bang devices. And here's what police said about an explosive found on site. Watch.


WILLIAM KRAMPF, ACTING CHIEF, ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY: We did recover what we thought may have been an explosive device that has been taken care of. We have members of the bomb squad on scene. We don't anticipate having any more explosive devices.


GALLAGHER: Unclear if the fake grenade or flash bang is what police were referring to when they say explosive device. The Capital Gazette is among the nation's oldest newspaper dating back to the mid-1800s.

An editor of the paper released a statement about the employees that reads in part, quote, "We keep doing more with less. We find ways to cover high school sports, breaking news, tax hikes, school budgets and local entertainment. We are there in times of tragedy. We do our best to share the stories of people, those who make our community better. Please understand we do all this to serve our community."

He also requested no interviews. President Trump has been kept abreast of the news tweeting, quote, "My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Thank you to all of the first responders who are currently on scene."

Meantime, three people remain in local hospitals and the county coroner and investigators remain on scene trying to piece this crime together. We have heard very little from other employees inside the Capital headquarters. It was an intern who initially tweeted, "active shooter, please help us." Martha.

MACCALLUM: Awful. Awful. Trace, thank you very much. More as we get it throughout the course of the evening.

So, now to our other top stories tonight, some fireworks on Capitol Hill as lawmakers demanded answers from the top officials at the FBI and the Department of Justice.

FBI director Christopher Wray and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein fielded a series of pointed and fiery questions from House Republicans today, trying to get to the bottom of how their agencies handled the Clinton e-mail investigation, and the subsequently the Russia that they began. Watch this.


ROD ROSENSTEIN, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: I am the deputy attorney general of the United States. OK?

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: You are the boss, Mr. Rosenstein.

ROSENSTEIN: That's correct.

JORDAN: Why did you tell Peter Strzok not to answer questions yesterday?

ROSENSTEIN: I didn't give Peter Strzok any instructions.

REP. RON DESANTIS, R-FLA.: Horowitz what said his bias is the appropriate explanation for his conduct, do you agree?

ROSENSTEIN: I certainly agree with the findings of the inspector general report and I think those messages do indicate bias.

REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: We need a date when you found out the wife of your deputy was working for people who were actively trying to undermine President Trump.

REP. TREY GOWDY, R-S.C.: If you have evidence of wrongdoing by any member of the Trump campaign, presented to the damn grand jury. Whatever you've got finish it the hell up. This country is being torn apart.


MACCALLUM: Here now, Florida Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, among those demanding answers in that hearing today. Congressman, good to see you here in Florida.

GAETZ: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: So, I watched as much as I could this morning before we started getting ready for the debate of this hearing. And it was pretty heated in there. What did you think was accomplished today?

GAETZ: We learned that Rod Rosenstein won't tell us whether or not he even read the FISA application that resulted on officials associated with the Trump campaign.

I think there is a real transition that occurred today. This is going from just being Robert Mueller's probe to a probe that Rod Rosenstein is responsible for because he is ultimately who appointed Mueller.

And so the staffing decisions that demonstrate bias, the accountability kind of the cleanup of people like Peter Strzok and Lisa Page should fall to Rosenstein and we didn't get the answers we wanted today.

MACCALLUM: Let's take a listen to Representative Jordan. He is pressing Rosenstein over the releasing of documents which I know has been top of mind for all of you. Watch is part.


JORDAN: The House of Representatives is going to go on record saying you haven't complied with requests from a separate and equal branch of government, and you haven't complied with subpoenas, and you got seven days to get your act together. I don't know why you won't give us what we've asked for.

ROSENSTEIN: Sir, I certainly hope that your colleagues are not under that impression. That is not accurate, sir.

JORDAN: It did factor. We have caught you hiding information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, can we allow the witness to answer?


MACCALLUM: All right. How do you square that?

GAETZ: Well, there have been a number of circumstances where we found documents that were responsive to the request from Congress but they weren't produced to us. So that's deeply troubling.

Also I think you've seen Mr. Jordan's frustration bubble beyond just a small group of members on the judiciary committee so now the entire House of Representatives is taking a vote and virtually every Republican is saying, we do have a role for oversight. Rod Rosenstein has frustrated that oversight and we want the documents in seven days.

MACCALLUM: I mean, at the heart of what you are digging for is whether or not there was a political agenda in place to try to disrupt the Trump campaign. And whether or not some of these agents, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, took it upon themselves to try to instigate or set up a pretext for investigating the Trump campaign. Did you get any further down that road today?

GAETZ: I think both today and yesterday particularly where we got the chance for the first time to interview Peter Strzok. We learned a lot more about the ways in which the bias not only existed, but it actually manifested an investigative decision.

The inspector general, a Democrat appointed by Barack Obama even said that he could not rule out bias as the reason why the Hillary Clinton investigation was pushed aside and the Donald Trump-Russia investigation was elevated beyond what the facts would have called for.

MACCALLUM: So the main question is whether or not these agents tried to figure out a way to sort of poke holes in the campaign, the Trump campaign, to kind of put feelers out there and see if they put out that bait, would anybody bite? Would they would say, you know, sure, I'd love to hear some dirt on Hillary Clinton and that possibly it seem that it is suggested that they would then be entrapped in a situation where it appeared that they were doing something wrong. Is that you believe happened?

GAETZ: That's what the documents will show. Today when I asked Rod Rosenstein if there was any intelligence collected on the Trump campaign before the George Papadopoulos report--


GAETZ: -- he would not answer that question. Now if the answer was no, he clearly could have said no. Instead he said, it's classified, which seems to suggest there is information there that was intelligence collected on the Trump campaign and that would indicate whether or not this was entrapment or abating of some kind for political purposes.

MACCALLUM: So what do you do next to get the answers to those questions?

GAETZ: The question is whether or not our leadership now having heard from the entire House of Representatives on this question will say, either the documents will show up or restart the impeachment proceedings of Rod Rosenstein.

MACCALLUM: What about the president, is there more that he could do?

GAETZ: Well, you know, the president is in an awkward position here.


GAETZ: Because I think the bias is reflected against him. The president could declassify documents from before the Papadopoulos report. And that would tell us whether or not there was spying or intelligence collection on the Trump campaign and I've encouraged the president to do that.

MACCALLUM: We saw Trey Gowdy encouraging them to come to some kind of conclusion or to present evidence if they have it. What is your sense of the Mueller time frame right now?

GAETZ: Well, we don't know and that's what's so troubling. I mean, we're almost two years into the Trump presidency. My goodness, if there was evidence of collusion, I think the country should see it.

Unfortunately, now we got a circumstance were so many Americans are in doubt but fewer and fewer -- the latest CBS poll shows more than half the country does not approve of how Robert Mueller is handling the investigation. More than half of the country also believes that the Mueller investigation is politically motivated not based on the facts.

MACCALLUM: We'll see what Mr. Mueller comes up with and how it was carried out. Good to see you, congressman. Thank you very much.

GAETZ: Hey, you have a great job moderating tonight.


MACCALLUM: Thank you.

GAETZ: I think my man Ron DeSantis did a great job.

MACCALLUM: It was an interesting night. We'll see how it plays out. Good to see you, sir.

GAETZ: All right.

MACCALLUM: So up next, as more Democrats call to abolish ICE as the crisis at the border intensifies, questions are raised about a civil war brewing in the United States over the issues of borders and law enforcement.

Jason Chaffetz and Juan Williams, they are up next, live from Orlando.


CYNTHIA NIXON, D-GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, NEW YORK: ICE has strayed so far from its mission, it's supposed to be here to keep Americans safe but what it has turned into is frankly a terrorist organization of its own.




PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Extremist Democrat politicians have called for the complete elimination of ICE. We don't want ICE anymore. You know what happened to parts of our country? It would be overrun with the worst criminal elements you have ever seen.


MACCALLUM: So it's the battle of real immigration boils over in this country. The president is cautioning against a radical call from some who want ICE, the Immigration Enforcement Agency, to be abolished.

Wisconsin Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan is now introducing a bill that would eliminating ICE and a growing number of Democrats are pushing for that as well. Watch this.


NIXON: I think we need to abolish ICE. That seems really clear. They have strayed so far from the interest of the American people and the interests of humanity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can enforce our immigration laws through another mechanism, not ICE, which is out of hand.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, NEW YORK: We can replace it, and we can replace it with a humane agency that is directed toward safe passage.


MACCALLUM: Joining me now is Jason Chaffetz, former House oversight committee chairman and a Fox News contributor, and Juan Williams, co-host of The Five and Fox News political analyst. Juan, let me begin with you. What they are saying, those Democrats on the campaign trail, does not resonate with you at all, does it make any sense?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CO-HOST & POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. I mean you have a situation where, especially in the aftermath of the children being separated from their parents at the border, you know, there is lot of concern over whether or not ICE's behavior has been too aggressive and they are simply carrying out without proper accountability and proper review of their actions steps that, in fact, are anti-Democratic.

And whether they become more and more like just a, you know, an un-policed or unregulated agency of a government that's too big.

MACCALLUM: Well, I'm not sure, Jason, those who want to abolish ICE, what exactly they want to replace it. Because when you listen to the president on this he talks about, you know, how his party he believes is the party of law and order. And he said Democrats just want open borders and an increase in crime. But they're really not making clear what they would replace it with or how they would fix it.

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Now look, President Trump is absolutely right. All the problems, all the challenges in this world from the opioid crisis to gangs to all the problems that we are having in this country, and that's what the Democrats want to pick on are the ICE Officers that are going after the criminal element of those people that are here illegally. We got to have their backs.

Now they conflate the difference between the border patrol and Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. I've been out on the streets with these guys they do amazing work, they get the criminal elements off of their backs. And if the Democrats want to run on that platform as a differentiating factor going into 2018, they are going to lose, and lose by record numbers.

MACCALLUM: I mean, it's unmistakable that there is an energy in the country now that feels like almost like a civil war. And in fact, some people are calling at that. Charlie Hurt wrote a piece saying that he believes that there is a civil war going on in this country.

When he looks at things such as the shooting of Congressman Scalise, the assassination of police officers in their vehicles and the call to abolish ICE, Juan, you know, he feels that this clash between those who want more security and those who don't is causing that kind of strife. Do you agree?

WILLIAMS: No. I mean, this is so interesting. I think that there is tremendous political polarization in the country, Martha. I think there's no question about that. I mean, there's going to be polarization over the next Supreme Court nominee coming from the Trump administration for just that reason.

But when you are talking about immigration and specifics, I think what you have is people who are, I think, pushing the fair button and using the issue to stir up anxiety, and fear in the country.

I mean, recently we had a man who was spokesman for ICE, you know, say that he quit because there were just too many lies being told by Tom Homan and by Jeff Sessions, the attorney general.

And you have of course, the Oakland mayor who said she was going to try to alert people about the various ICE raids because again, she saw it as intrusive and the government acting in a way that was promoting fear and anxiety in her population.

MACCALLUM: Is that ICE -- let's play that. We have a sound bite from James Schwab, the former ICE spokesperson. We'll play that quickly and then get your response, Jason.


JAMES SCHWAB, FORMER SPOKESMAN, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: I could not fathom staying at an organization that was OK with lying to the American public. I hate that.

In 17 years in the military, at the Department of Defense as a civilian, at NASA and now at Homeland Security, I've never been asked to lie. I've never been ask to perpetuate a lie which is the same as lying.


MACCALLUM: Jason Chaffetz?

CHAFFETZ: Yes. No, that's terribly concerning. I believe that that gentleman also said that that was happening in the Obama administration. As the former chairman of the oversight committee, that's exactly the kind of person that we want to hear from and understand his story. No matter who is in the political office.

But let's understand that the Democrats have embraced the principles of the resistance movement. It's violent, it's aggressive, it's in your face. It scourge philosophy, it puts people in harm's way, particularly law enforcement.

I want more enforcement to know that the country has their backs. Let's go after the criminals, the people that are creating crimes in this country and make sure that they are out of this country.

And I -- if the Democrats fight as hard -- think about how hard the Democrats fight to protect the illegal aliens, it's unbelievable to me.

MACCALLUM: Chairman, thank you very much. Good to see you both tonight. The conversation continues as the story goes on this evening.

And this a live look now at Annapolis, Maryland, where we are watching as police are getting ready to give us an update on the deadly shooting at the Capital Gazette newspaper today. We're going to bring you that live as soon as it happens.

But first, this evening, another conservative justice likely on the way. And Clinton critics now saying that the blame lies with Hillary Clinton and how she ran her campaign. Governor Mike Huckabee is here on that. And what they are also saying about the Evangelical vote, next.



TRUMP: Our wonderful opponent. When is she going to get over it?


TRUMP: When does she get over it?



MACCALLUM: That was President Trump last night taking a jab at his 2016 opponent Hillary Clinton who for months now has been trying to explain the title of her book, "What Happened?"

Now a former advisor to her husband is suggesting that part of the problem was her campaign's failure to reach out to core groups like Evangelicals.

Matt Bennett reportedly saying, quote, "The Clinton campaign did do a miserable job of this, and there will be a correction around that outreach to particularly white Evangelical Democrats. Not a huge group, but will be better in 2020 than it was before."

Governor Mike Huckabee is a former presidential candidate of course, and a Fox News contributor and we are always glad to see you, governor. Good to see you tonight. Interesting comment from Matt Bennett, how do you think that would go for them?

FORMER GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE, R-ARK.: Not very well, Martha, because simple reason. There are two non-negotiables for most of the Evangelicals. One is absolute adherence to the idea of sanctity of life, every person has intrinsic worth and value.

Hillary Clinton believes in late-term abortion as do many Democrats. And they've shoved every pro-life Democrat out the door. The second is unqualified support for Israel. Again, Democrats use to be there, they used to lead on it, now they don't. And really, you've to realize, Democrats have alienated the Evangelical voters more than they ever have and I don't see it coming back soon.

MACCALLUM: All right. You know, in terms of this week and at the SCOTUS decision, obviously devastating for liberals and for Democrats in terms of these decisions that went down, also the fact that you are going to have another appointment to the Supreme Court by President Trump who is sure to be someone at least that he interprets as a staunch conservative. This is Joe Scarborough responding to how that all happened. Watch.


JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, MSNBC: When you elect presidents, this is what happens. They can complain about internet, this and that and the press did this and they should have done that, but the fact is, Hillary never had a message. She ran a horrible campaign.


MACCALLUM: So he is saying, you know, it's all Hillary Clinton's fault. She didn't do well in the campaign and this is what happened when you lose an election.

HUCKABEE: And thank God it happened because I would hate to think of Hillary Clinton appointing two people. The Democrats have gone nuts over this. I mean, they are melting down more so than the wicked witch of the west at a water park. It's just amazing to see them and they don't understand elections have consequences.

I believe it was Barack Obama who said that to us and he was right, he is still right. And we elected Donald Trump as president, many of us, those of us in the basket of deplorables are glad we did. And this is what happens. And we are going to get another outstanding justice, just like Neil Gorsuch.

MACCALLUM: Twenty seconds. The union decision is a big deal, we had so much news, we haven't had a lot of chance to talk about it but I know you think that's a very important decision.

HUCKABEE: Well, it is. And the short point is this, people ought to have the right to support candidates they believe in. They shouldn't be forced to give money to candidates they can't stand and this particular decision eliminates being forced to support candidates that are not their choice.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It's going to be very tough on the public sector unions across the board. Governor Huckabee, always a pleasure. Thank you so much, sir. Good to see you tonight.

HUCKABEE: Thank you. Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: That is our story for tonight. We will see you back in New York tomorrow night at seven. But stay tuned, there is a news conference coming up in Annapolis, Maryland this evening. We so expect an update on the deadly shooting at the Capital Gazette newspaper. At least five dead and several others injured. Tucker joins us live.

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