Release of US detainees clears path for Trump-Kim summit

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 9, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Pete Hegseth, today, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

We begin with a breaking news overseas, three Americans held prisoner by North Korea are on their way home. They were freed today and walked on their own from a van on to the plane of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo at the end his day long visit that included a brief meeting with Kim Jong-un. President Trump is grateful for their release.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Right now, flying back are three, what they were calling hostages, we call them fine people, three really fine people, seemed to be healthy, they'll landing at 2 o'clock in the morning at Andrews Air Force Base, and I'll be there to greet them. Nobody thought this was going to happen, and if it did it would be years or decades, frankly. Nobody thought this was going to happen. And I appreciate Kim Jong-un doing this.


PERINO: Their return clears the way to a historic upcoming summit between the president and Kim Jong-un. Mr. Trump had some news earlier on when that meeting will be taking place.


TRUMP: We're going to announce that in three days. Within three days.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Within three days?

TRUMP: Which is working arrangements.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Will it be in the DMZ?

TRUMP: It will not be there. A lot of good things can happen. A lot of bad things can happen. I believe that we have both sides want to negotiate a deal. I think it's going to be a very successful deal.


PERINO: Greg, President Trump was not going to go to this meeting if the detainees were still being held by the North Koreans, so this was the -- a smart move by the North Koreans that they really want to have it.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think the New York Times should be relieved to know that -- where Pompeo was, because I believe they were like, where's Pompeo? Why is he isn't here with the Iranian deal? Because he was doing something else.

PERINO: Yes, we have Sarah Sanders on tape talking about that earlier today.

GUTFELD: Did I jump the gun?

PERINO: No, not at all. It's actually the perfect segue, let's listen to it.


SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The fact that I'm standing here taking questions, the fact that the president took questions from your colleagues just two hours ago, demonstrates this White House's commitment to accessibility and to providing information to the American public. At the same time, the press has a responsibility to put out accurate information. Just yesterday, the New York Times accuses secretary of state for being AWOL. AWOL. When he was flying across the globe to bring three Americans home. That is an outrageous claim.


PERINO: So there, she was making your point.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know, I think the media may have to admit that despite all the flaws of Trump they seen to cover excessively on other channels, the United States elected a person with a unique skill set that is perfect for these kinds of events. He may not be Ward Cleaver, you know. He may not be Marcus Welby, M.D., trying to hit the audience.



GUTFELD: But, he has a skill set that presidents -- our past presidents may not have had and it's time to move on and kind of accept that this is what he might be good at. Get over the two-year tantrum. We might need some anti-grief counselors in the media to cheer these people up.

PERINO: Well, I just -- it is an interesting thing, Pete, that you have this historic opportunity, and you do wonder if people be able to get over any sort of politics. I mean, politics is infusing everything that we do at all times. But, everybody can be happy that these three.


PERINO: . detainees are coming home.

HEGSETH: The way you look at it you're welcome for fire and fury. You're welcome for the bloody nose approach. You're welcome for the military exercise. You're welcome for all the fear and the craziness that so-called mainstream media have. He's going to bring us to nuclear Armageddon. No, he's not. He's going to scare the bejeebers out of Kim Jong-un until he actually, finally, comes to the table and makes all these concessions up front before we even have a talk, which shows how serious they are about the fact that they believe that President Trump might actually take away their nukes or bomb them if necessary. That's the necessary prerequisite for actual peace. To take a perception of a crazy man to bring a real crazy man to the table to actually bring peace.

GUTFELD: What's a bejeeber.

HEGSETH: Bejeeber?



PERINO: Military term?

HEGSETH: No, it's a mid-western term, following for something else.

GUILFOYLE: He's following in Greg footsteps, the whole demo thing. That is like, what? He goes.


PERINO: But, Juan, I do think that the president is willing to tap the brakes on people getting a little-bit overly exuberant thinking that world peace is at hand, and the North Koreans are going to do everything that is asked of them when they come to the table. He does always say, you just heard him right before we started, there could be a lot of good things that happen, there could be a lot of bad things that happen, and he's trying to show everyone that he's aware that the North Koreans have pension for lying.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yeah, he should be. But, you know, so, I think everybody has high hopes that this -- those people are in good health. Obviously, Otto Warmbier was not in good health. The president, though, said -- people didn't think this could happen decades. I mean, these people have been held since '15, I think, is the longest '17 for two of the people who are coming home. And you just -- thank God that this is happening because we know that the North Koreans do not treat prisoners fairly. But, I think it's a crazy narrative to say, oh, it's because of President Trump's bellicose rhetoric that somehow you see the North Koreans suddenly acting more gracious. I think the fact is it's sanctions. I think it's pressure.

HEGSETH: It's part of it. It's all part of it. You pressure China with sanctions.

WILLIAMS: We've had sanctions on.

GUTFELD: But these are different years. These are sanctions on companies.

PERINO: And getting China, Kimberly, to come on board.

WILLIAMS: But I think that even with that the president, somehow, I mean, things get stepped on, you know? So, yesterday it was the Iran deal -- and by the way, New York Times in their stories said Pompeo was on his way to North Korea to hopefully bring home three people, so I don't know why you want to pick on the Times.

GUTFELD: Their headline was different.

WILLIAMS: OK. But, anyway, the article.

GUTFELD: I only read the headlines, Juan.


GUTFELD: I don't have time for your stories.

GUILFOYLE: He's not content oriented.

GUTFELD: Yes. I'm a millennial.

HEGSETH: You're with the people.

WILLIAMS: You're with the people. But the people, meanwhile, also we got the story about money, Russian money being funneled to Michael Cohen. Steps on again on the good news about the North Koreans.


GUTFELD: Only on the CNN newsroom.


GUTFELD: . step on great news.

GUILFOYLE: But you see what happens here. Juan is like master, you've got to keep your eyes on both hands because he'll distract, he'll deflect -- wait a second, we've been talking about how amazing the president's accomplishments is here. We should be celebrating the fact that these three Americans came home, good health, prosperity. That is the only one.

PERINO: Information.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and with information. So this is something -- when you look at the type of diplomacy it's almost like a destabilizing diplomacy that he engages in, because it's isn't anything that anyone seen before, experience before, so it throws the other side off their game. They're not sure what to expect or anticipate. And that really is the secret to his success as it relates to foreign policy and what we've seen in terms of how he handled himself diplomatically and working with other countries. Like, wait a second, we've better take this seriously and pay attention because he's liable to just do about anything.


GUILFOYLE: . typical playbook that we've been used to seeing.

HEGSETH: And, Juan, you say he steps on his good news with other news. He steps on good news with more good news. So, he scraps the Iran deal, and within that same day he's bringing back three hostages in a way that opens up the possibility for -- possibly you don't know, but an opening on the Korean Peninsula which hasn't happen for previous administration.

WILLIAMS: So, I think of it as just the opposite. I thought he was saying the good news is the release of the prisoners.


WILLIAMS: And once he's done then, everybody instead is frightened about what is going on with Iran. Does he have a plan B? Does he have an understanding? We've seen to have separated ourselves.

HEGSETH: The voters aren't frightened at all.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, I mean, the critics have been all over this, right? Especially the Democrats, right? So, from President Obama all the way.

PERINO: Can I interrupt -- I have actually a little bit of sound on that.

WILLIAMS: Go right ahead.

PERINO: . because you guys are so good at moving me along today, President Trump is getting a lot of harsh criticism for pulling out of the Iran deal for leaders who helped negotiated and other powerful Democrats, as Juan was saying. President Obama says the pull-out risks eroding America's credibility. John Kerry says it breaks America's word, and Nancy Pelosi said it endangers global security, defies comprehension. So, I'll turn to you, Greg, on that.

GUTFELD: All right. So, if you're mad about Iran and what happened, who should you blame? A, you blame Obama who left his party in tatters which enabled President Trump to be elected. Two, you blame Hillary who thought the election was in the bag. So they assume this deal is going to stay because they're going to have Hillary in there. You've got to blame Anthony Weiner because he presented the last scandal.

GUILFOYLE: And we blame him for everything.

GUTFELD: Exactly. So, all of that -- if you're mad, don't be mad at Donald Trump because he said he's going to do this. Be mad at yourselves for creating a deal that could be reversed. That wasn't really a deal but just basically.

PERINO: Treaty.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Not treaty, whatever.

PERINO: It's like a handshake.

GUTFELD: It was, but it's great. I loved -- I can't tell who's more hysterical, the media, the Democrats or the Iranians burning flags. I saw how the Iran supreme leader said that Trump corpse will be worm food. I think he's auditioning for "Morning Joe."


GUTFELD: That's exactly what I hear on "Morning Joe."

PERINO: There is one curious thing -- Pete, I'll turn to you on this about why -- you know the state department had a person there, a political appointee there with the Europeans trying to explain to them that they want to do a different deal, try to get to something where they could agree on the sunset provision. Remember on this deal -- on Obama's deal -- with sunset. And so.

HEGSETH: In ten years.

PERINO: . the Iranians would be able to get a nuclear weapon right after that. And I'm curious -- you have any insight as to what it was the Europeans were so resistant about changing that sunset position.

HEGSETH: I think they're resistant about changing anything that throws a deal that they're totally invested in. That they feel good about the legacy of a deal that they've got, that Barack Obama got, who is their international friend, and it's difficult to change a deal like that.

PERINO: Well, they also -- they also is making a lot of money, Kimberly. There's a lot of economic activity that was allowed under this deal.

HEGSETH: Absolutely.

PERINO: . Europeans in particular.

GUILFOYLE: Well, absolutely. So you can understand that. When President Trump said, OK, I understand, you know, if I were them I'd be upset too. But, he's got to act in the best interest of the United States. And what he sees is our, you know, global future and the national security and safety of America and, quite frankly, the world. This was not a good deal. I would really shutter at the thought that a president who researched it, met with people, discussed it and decided to make this decision didn't make it because he was afraid of criticism. Or that people would say, oh, wow, now look what you've done? You've torn down a legacy portion of Barack Obama.

I mean, it wasn't well thought out to begin with. The president shouldn't stick in a bad deal. That's why he also pulled out of the Paris Climate Change Accord because he analyzed it and he did the numbers. And, as I said yesterday, I just do not think that we should, in fact, fund a nuclear Iran. Especially, when they were not, you know, honest as it related to their inspections or anything else. They're self-inspecting, it was absolutely ridiculous. So, it wasn't something that was really good for the United States or, quite frankly, the world.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, I -- my concern, and I saw this in the papers today, is President Trump acting in the interest of the United States as opposed to simply being vindictive and saying I don't like Obama, I don't like the past deal, this is horrible, I'm a deal maker, I can create chaos and make people come to the table on my terms, because, wait a second, does it really make us more secure? Remember, twice this president has certified that Iran didn't violate any of the terms of the deal.

HEGSETH: Each time.

WILLIAMS: . the Europeans.

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, let me finish, Pete. So then, the Europeans and the International Atomic Energy all say no evidence of any violation. The president speaks yesterday, he doesn't have any evidence. Instead, he says, rotten deal, horrible deal. I'll get a better deal. But, what do we see right now? We see the United States isolated from its allies. President Obama said the real choice here is a nuclear Iran or we go to war, which is what Netanyahu wants, we go to war with Iran to take them out.

HEGSETH: He just hugged it out with.

WILLIAMS: . destabilizing the Middle East.

HEGSETH: He just hugged it out with Emmanuel Macron. Even Netanyahu loves the deal. We're not isolated from our allies.

PERINO: Last word to Greg.

GUTFELD: You have to understand, this is the pattern that we've seen. Start -- he comes in creates the chaos by turning the table over, that turns to a certain kind of uncertainty, so when you start to negotiate the other side doesn't know what you're doing. And he's left the door open.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: So, this is exactly -- when I see this as kind of a replay of North Korea. The North Korea starts and begins with chaos and uncertainty. The media and the Democrats are going World War III. Oh, there's more likely of war. This is complete deja vu. We will live through this six months ago.

GUILFOYLE: Let him do a new deal. I mean.

HEGSETH: A really good deal.

GUILFOYLE: Let him do a good deal. Let him do a deal based on the benefit of experience that what he's learned from this deal, what they think works and doesn't work. I'm not a big fan of, you know, Iran self-certifying saying, yep, no violations here from us, wink, wink, while they're continuing to build a nuclear Iran. That's the bottom line here. So, let the president go through it. Make strong choices based on facts and information. He did win the election. It is his prerogative. He's got a team in place now that he can work with to make some solid decisions as it relates to national security.

WILLIAMS: The problem is you want to negotiate a deal with North Korea on, guess what, nuclear disarmament. Oh, but we've stepped out of a deal that we've signed just a few years ago. And everybody in the world now is going to negotiate a new deal with Iran, because Iran, apparently, is interested in maintaining that deal from -- maybe the reason that.

GUILFOYLE: They want the money.

HEGSETH: How close the world -- we want a real deal not a .

WILLIAMS: Nobody says it was a bad deal except President Trump. And he said it was a political trauma.


PERINO: We'll see what happens. OK, coming up, the president pick to lead the CIA faces the lawmakers with the power to grant or deny her that position. The Haspel hearing highlights, next.


GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Pete. President Trump nominee for CIA director facing a grilling on Capitol Hill over enhance interrogation techniques.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: If this president asks you to do something that you find morally objectionable, what would you do?

GINA HASPEL, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: My moral compass is strong. I would not allow the CIA to undertake activity that I thought was immoral, even if it was technically legal.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the president gave you a direct order to water board that suspect, what would do you?

HASPEL: I do not believe the president would ask me to do that.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe the previous interrogation techniques were immoral? I'm not asking do you believe they were legal. I'm asking do you believe they were immoral.

HASPEL: Senator, I believe that CIA did extraordinary work to prevent another attack on this country given the legal tools that we were authorized to use.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please answer yes or no.


GUILFOYLE: All right. That was Kamala Harris, who I've worked with at the San Francisco district attorney office, speaking to the nominee -- grilling her in that sense. So, Greg, what do you make of these hearings and how did she hold up?

GUTFELD: They put the boring in water boring. That didn't work. No, Haspel -- she's a tough cookie. And clearly, she deserves the job. Did I read correctly that Khalid Sheik Mohammed wants to testify?

PERINO: Yes. No, he wanted to come in and question him.

GUTFELD: I think they should do. Let the committee do it. Let -- I would love to see the Democrats and the 9/11 mastermind on same side, you know. Finally in agreement and see what happens. I'll Uber -- I'll send an Uber from Gitmo.


GUILFOYLE: How generous of you.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's an expensive Uber.

GUILFOYLE: You'll get a five-star rating after that trip.

GUTFELD: Well, it's up to his behavior, how nice he would be to the driver.

PERINO: I tweeted last night that thousands of innocent were unavailable to comment.


PERINO: . on his outrageous request. The fact that we've even know about his request.


PERINO: . actually irritates me. Like, I don't ever want to have to hear from him again. He should, you know, rot. OK. So, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, has a tough reelection coming up, he's a Democrat running in the state that President Trump won by, like, 24 points or something like that, maybe even more than that. And so, he came out today and said he will vote for her. She is going to get confirmed. What I really thought was remarkable today -- OK, yes. I should give you full credit for that.

GUILFOYLE: No, because of this election.

PERINO: But, she -- she lived her life behind the scenes, her entire career. Most of it was spent undercover. And now, she has to go in front these people who live their life for cable news spotlight hits. And she did, I think, remarkably well, super calm about it. I do wonder about this one moment when Diane Feinstein, senator from California, goes after her about the destruction of the videotapes?


PERINO: That she didn't order them, she was the chief-of-staff to Jose Rodriguez who ordered the destruction, but the implication was that there were 92 videotapes of different interrogations of different terrorists, and she corrected the record and said, no, there were 92 tapes of interrogations of one terrorist. OK. So the misinformation about this entire program has gotten entirely out of control. And then, I would ask this, for the Democrats who thinks she's not qualified, do they ever think to ask Nancy Pelosi, why Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the house at the time -- or then minority leader, never said anything about this program being immoral or illegal. She knew about it from the beginning, they didn't say anything until after it was unveiled in the paper.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And, Pete, a lot of focus on that, and saying I didn't ask you that question. I asked you if it was immoral what you thought, and the question, of course, whether -- if the president asked you do it would you water board.

HEGSETH: It's all anti-Trump. It's all about -- this president is unhinged and he might ask you to do something illegal. Of course, that's.

GUILFOYLE: That's the narrative.

HEGSETH: The entire narrative against her is premise on the fact that Democrats would believe that we're being too nasty on Al-Qaeda. The reason we don't want her is she's too tough on Al-Qaeda.


HEGSETH: I don't want her -- listen, I'm being serious. You watch people jump from buildings on 9/11, we forget those moment. We're up against a vicious enemy who kills innocent. I don't want a CIA director taking techniques off the table. I really don't. What about the enhanced, enhanced interrogation techniques that we may need some day? I'm serious. And I think we live in this world where we want to step back, and whitewash, and moralize, and stand on our podiums in the senate committee and say we would have never done that. That's not true. Wait until an attack happens and we didn't see, and we need techniques to really get to it when our enemy's chops-off our heads. People are too foolish to think that we live in a world where we can fight this enemy with kid's gloves.

GUILFOYLE: And you should listen to the excerpts of people that are in the theater that are operating in these sites and understand exactly and know.

HEGSETH: That it worked.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And know the extent to which the enemy will go in order to injure, to harm, to kill, and to destroy, you know, western civilization. So, someone like this has been doing the tough jobs, while they've been sitting there moralizing and pontificating about how, you know, morally superior they are, Juan, except they've never been in the position or the shoes that she's been in.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm so glad to see all of you praising someone from the deep state, because Gina Haspel is deep state.

PERINO: Long live the deep state.

WILLIAMS: And I know how President Trump feels about the deep state. But I can see you guys, you're all for deep state today.


WILLIAMS: I'm struck by the idea that you have, and I say this to you, Pete, almost directly, you have admirals, retired generals, 100 plus saying we don't think Gina Haspel is the right person because if we embrace torture then our soldier, our sailors, then are going to all the more likely be tortured by people saying, well, the United States doesn't stand up for human rights, doesn't stand for the idea of values with regard to human life. There was an article in the New York Times.

HEGSETH: One man torture is another man's enhanced interrogation.


HEGSETH: You get your heads cut off, that's not torture, that's decapitation.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say.

HEGSETH: I'm sorry. We face an enemy that doesn't anywhere near live by our standards.

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, Pete. Not only is it -- in terms of my values as an American, I don't think -- I don't want my government torturing anybody. But you see Gina Haspel, today, saying, she will not restart any torture. That's what she said. She said she's not about destroying any tapes and somewhat regrets. So, I think, Gina Haspel is trying to make this right by saying she's not a torture. The article.


GUILFOYLE: So you endorse her.

WILLIAMS: No, I want to know -- I think it's about our values. And I think that lots of people, certainly, all the people who are her peers, and even her supervisors in terms of the intelligence committee say she's a pro, she's wonderful. This is about us and our value. There was an article in the times as I was about to tell Pete by a pregnant whom said she was at this Thai site where she was abused and tortured. And I think to myself the United States, we shouldn't put our brand on torturing a pregnant woman?


GUTFELD: So I didn't read the article. I'll go back and find out that if we indeed tortured a pregnant woman in a black site. The fact is, the government does a lot of things that we disagree with. You don't think it's right that the government uses enhanced interrogation techniques?


GUTFELD: Oh, bad.


PERINO: Juan, why would the Democrats be OK with John Brennan who is number 4 at the CIA at the time. Gina Haspel was more junior first. I mean, she was still in management, but she was not -- John Brennan gets confirmed by the United States senate, so why not her?

GUILFOYLE: Because it's President Trump's pick.

WILLIAMS: I believe she was in charge of a black fight. So, in other words.


WILLIAMS: Wait, hold on. In other words, if you are the one who is directly in charge, and then, secondly, responsible, and she says Jose Rodriguez told her to do it, but she agrees, destroying the tape and went ahead and did it. I think you have a more direct contact.


WILLIAMS: We've asked questions about President Bush. We've asked questions about the Justice Department at the time.

HEGSETH: It's all legal at the time, by the way.

WILLIAMS: Those people weren't there doing that to other human beings.


GUTFELD: A lot of them aren't human beings.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that's like political yoga here a little but, because it's like, OK, well, he's her supervisor, but you're not going to hold him responsible for it. She did it. She's qualified.


WILLIAMS: Dana and I go back and forth on this.

GUILFOYLE: . and not follow the law on the books, and refuse to do it, and refuse to take orders, and follow the chain of commands, and engage in something that was 100 percent legal and authorized at the time.

WILLIAMS: We don't know that.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, we do.

WILLIAMS: Dana and I go back and forth on this.


WILLIAMS: Dana is a big defender of this. But I'm just telling you the Obama administration decided not to go after, not to pursue it, and I think they've made the right call, correct? But that's not to say that if they had pursued it you wouldn't have been prosecution.


WILLIAMS: I think we're Americans and we should stick together. We made a mistake. But we don't need to repeat the mistake.

GUILFOYLE: Well, even her saying -- even her saying that she wouldn't do it wasn't good enough for you. Even though she does agrees then now in the statement she made with values you still don't want to put her through because it was a choice of this president.

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: The question is, is that what the senate wants to say to the world.


GUTFELD: The argument if you do X, that is not an American value, that's just an emotional opinion.

GUILFOYLE: It's emotional opinion. What else is emotional, the fact that the water boarding led them to Osama Bin Laden's house.

WILLIAMS: She never said that.

GUILFOYLE: Rob O'Neal said that in a tweet today.

WILLIAMS: Oh, she didn't.

GUILFOYLE: He was there. This is a midterm election alert, watch-out folks. If Democrats win back control of congress, Nancy Pelosi is coming after your hard earned crumbs, next.


WILLIAMS: Welcome back. Nancy Pelosi once dismissed the value of President Trump's tax cuts. She called them crumbs. Now she's threatening to roll back the cuts if she becomes speaker of House again.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a new ad that they put out after you said you thought you were going to win the majority that says -- the title was "All at Stake" that said that you would like to institute a single-payer healthcare program and cancel -- raise taxes, I think they mean; roll back the tax cuts that they passed this year. Is that -- what do you think of that?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Well, the second part there is accurate.


WILLIAMS: So that gives you a clue about how the Democrats are thinking about the president's taxes. And it's fascinating, because remember, President Trump, Senate leader -- Senate Majority Leader McConnell said, "Oh, boy, we're going to sell this big-time going into midterms." And what we've seen is a downturn, Greg, in terms of Republicans talking about the tax cuts in their advertising.

GUTFELD: Interesting. I think -- I've beginning to think that the only new blood the Democratic Party has is in the Antifa. I mean, their bench is as deep as a kiddy pool.

I hope she keeps going out there, repeating these promises. She is -- she is the least persuasive message. I mean, it's like they should say, "We'll give you measles." That should be the Democrat -- if you were --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: If you're undoing --

GUILFOYLE: Like a weird fungus.

GUTFELD: Yes, a fungus. No, I mean, "I'm going to undo the thing -- I'm going to undo the stuff that helps boost the economy and put money in people's pockets." That's your message.

It's a symbol of a party that's bereft of ideas. And the only weapon they have right now is that "hate Trump," which will work with their base. But I don't think America -- the economy's doing well, Juan. America is going to be, like, "What? Why would you change this? This is crazy."

Again, it would be like saying, "Hey, get measles."

WILLIAMS: So this is an interesting point. And believe me, the political pros are discussing it, because people ae saying when they ask about the tax cuts, they're not giving it much support. And everybody thought it was going to -- even Republicans are worried about the deficit exploding under this tax cut.

GUILFOYLE: Well, listen, I -- this is something very strange. It's like Nancy Pelosi is a double agent or something.


GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I think she's actually playing for the Republicans, because when she says things like this, this is not actually helping the Democratic Party whatsoever. Because you have 90 percent of Americans being able to benefit from these tax cuts. You see the economy doing very well, the stock market. There are positive economic indicators to suggest that this is, in fact, working.

So why is she all of a sudden -- is using this and pulling this out of the playbook? It's the old tax-and-spend Democrat approach. I mean, I know. I lived in San Francisco. I was all -- around it 24/7, and it's not working. That's why the president is putting wins on the board as it relates to the economy and taxes and now national security and also with diplomacy and peace.

HEGSETH: So Juan --

WILLIAMS: Marco Rubio said there's no evidence it's helping.

PERINO: That's not exactly what he said.

HEGSETH: And then he took it back.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's right. He took it back.

HEGSETH: So we're going to -- we're going to raise your taxes. We're going to open the borders, and we're going to impeach President Trump. That's basically --

GUTFELD: That's it.

HEGSETH: That's basically their campaign slogan.

GUILFOYLE: And then they're going to have an ice cream social.

HEGSETH: We'll all going to feel good about it.

WILLIAMS: I would feel good. Anyway --

HEGSETH: There you go.

PERINO: I do think that the Democrats are -- they're certainly not doing something right. Today just this afternoon, CNN's new poll on generic ballot shows that the Democrats are only up three points. Three months ago, they were up, like, 12 to 15 points, I think it was. And so if the election were held today, the Republicans probably hold on.

What we talked about earlier this week was the only actual economic message they've been talking about are these pretty progressive pieces of guaranteed jobs --


PERINO: -- free college, things like that, that they can't pay for.

The Republicans, however, are missing an opportunity to talk about something in the world of economics that people do consistently say they're concerned about, and that's healthcare.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

PERINO: And both parties are not coming forward with anything on that.

WILLIAMS: OK. Ahead, a man walks into a crowded elevator. Greg is going to tell you what happens next. Now, that's a tease, isn't it, America? Stay with us.


GUTFELD: Let's say you're in a crowded elevator and someone asks the guy in the back what floor he needs to get off on. In an attempt at corny dad humor, he says, "ladies' lingerie." A joke as old as elevators themselves and, for sure, not as uplifting.

Now, imagine someone registering a complaint against the man for that joke, demanding justice. This actually happened. Richard Ned Lebow, a London professor, was at a conference in San Francisco, in a packed elevator when he actually made that same joke. A female professor was also there, and she filed a complaint. Now, he faces disciplinary charges for what she calls misogyny, an act that I call bitter, sad and humorless.

The offended prof is from Women's and Genders Study Department, whose ultimate goal is to remove any semblance of humor from the universe.

Without humor -- without humor, even the lame kind, you cannot communicate. You can only litigate, smear and punish. Humor is the DMZ between people who otherwise would hate each other.

The man defended himself, saying he opposes sexism in all forms, but of course, you know that's never enough. You must beg.

The International Studies Association who held the conference condemned him, claiming he violated their code of conduct. They demand an unequivocal apology, which I translate as: Apologize, quit your job and live the rest of your life in shame. As of today, he's refused -- good for him -- calling this, quote, "a horrifying and chilling example of political correctness." He's actually wrong. It's just a bad joke and a worse reality.


GUTFELD: All right, Juan, I'm going to you. No one can be on this woman's side, including you. No one.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

I mean, you know, I mean, I read someone said lighten up. So apparently, she says that now he has been engaged in a campaign that I think would fit with your monologue. She says that he is engaged in public smear campaign of her, belittling her, making her words out to be frivolous, and she feels minimized.


PERINO: Well, that's what you get.

GUTFELD: That's what you get.

WILLIAMS: I just think this is overly much.

GUTFELD: Yes. I would put it, this is end result, Dana.

PERINO: Well, first all, ladies do wear lingerie. Right?

GUTFELD: Not just ladies, Dana.

PERINO: And also Peter -- that's true. I mean you could tell people more about that. And they'll learn more on the commercial break and later.

GUTFELD: That will be my "One More Thing" tonight.

PERINO: What if he was at Macy's and he said, "Men's clothing and shoes,"? Would she have been offended because women weren't included?

GUTFELD: Ah, you know what? He should have said, "Gender studies."

PERINO: No, I think that she was worried that because now we're told there is no gender, that her job's going to go away.

GUTFELD: Could be. I don't know.

HEGSETH: So Dana, you point out the obvious that women do wear lingerie.

PERINO: I've heard that.

HEGSETH: It's not OK to be pro-lingerie? Maybe an off-hand comment at the wrong place, but at least -- it's so lame.

PERINO: Peter makes this joke all the time. Every time we come in the elevator. I mean, I don't want my husband to be basically told he can't make a stupid joke.

HEGSETH: It just leads to more -- it just leads to more whispering.

PERINO: I mean, it's very funny.

HEGSETH: Yes, good point.

GUTFELD: It's the oldest joke, Kimberly, in the world. I remember hearing that when I was --

GUILFOYLE: I'm offended as a lingerie, former lingerie model.

GUTFELD: That's right, you were! I remember those days before the Internet.

GUILFOYLE: Great. Weirder by the minute.

WILLIAMS: Greg, Greg --


WILLIAMS: -- a quick question before we go. So then they were saying, but what about this guy or YouTube who has his dog --

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: -- do a Nazi salute.


WILLIAMS: And I was thinking, so where is the line? Because I agree with you on --

GUTFELD: He was found guilty.

WILLIAMS: That guy was -- that guy had to pay a fine.

GUTFELD: Yes, he had to pay a fine.

WILLIAMS: And then there's the controversy over the conservative writer Kevin Williamson at "The Atlantic." And he was joking, he said, about all abortions -- women who have abortion should be -- so where do you draw the -- I don't know. But I think the elevator, I'm not in that line. That's a crazy --

PERINO: Everyone should be encouraged to make this joke.


PERINO: Every elevator you get into, everyone should say, "Ladies' lingerie."

GUTFELD: "Ladies lingerie." That is true. You don't even have to be in an elevator. Just be anywhere. Just say, "Ladies' lingerie" wherever you go. No one will think you're crazy.

PERINO: Say "The Five" said it was OK.

GUTFELD: Yes, "The Five" said it was OK.

PERINO: And you will never get fired.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

HEGSETH: Good idea. Good idea.

GUTFELD: All right. It's graduation time. And we've got some wisdom to spread to the class of 2018, next.


HEGSETH: Well done.

Well, it's that time of year, commencement time, and yet again conservatives are shut out. Big shocker. None of the eight Ivy League universities -- now, they're not the center of the universe, but we'll use it as an example -- have invited a conservative-leaning speaker this year to deliver the keynote to grads. Only one since 2015.

Now, Juan is actually the only one at this table who got an offer to spread his wisdom to grads this season, but the rest of us are going to share our unsolicited advice anyway.

Now, I'm going to start selfishly. I've 11-second summary of what my speech, commencement speech would be like if I was able to give it. Take a listen.


WILL ARNETT, VOICE ACTOR (AS BATMAN): Are you ready to follow Batman and maybe learn a few life lessons along the way?

MICHAEL CERA, VOICE ACTOR (AS ROBIN): I sure am but first, where's the seatbelt?

ARNETT: The first lesson is, life doesn't give you seat belts.


HEGSETH: Live doesn't give you seat belts. That's good.

GUILFOYLE: What a great speech.

HEGSETH: You know, get ready for the real world. It's coming in.

PERINO: I'm surprised you haven't been invited.

HEGSETH: Yes. Send the invites to me here at FOX News Channel.

You came up with this topic, Dana.

PERINO: Well, just a couple of months ago, we were asked, "Is anybody here going to be giving commencement speeches" so that everyone could coordinate. And Greg and I both said, "No, but we bet Juan has," and sure enough he has.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

PERINO: My advice --

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, they -- OK.

PERINO: My advice, unsolicited advice, is to move. There -- check out the cities that have below 3 percent unemployment rate. They have a ton of jobs. They need people there. Don't be afraid to move. Get out of your comfort zone.

HEGSETH: Good point. Greg, you have some favorite commencement --

GUTFELD: No, I don't have favorite ones. I was looking at the most famous recent speakers at recent commencements, and I'll just read you a list. Bill Cosby, Eric Schneiderman, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Rose, Jeffery Tambor, Al Franken, Garrison Keilar, Chris Matthews, Tom Brokaw. Did I say Matt Lauer already?

My point is, I'm glad I'm not a commencement speaker. It made me --

HEGSETH: Consider the source.

GUILFOYLE: There's hope for you.

HEGSETH: Kimberly, I feel like you would give a stellar commencement speech.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and I have been asked once.

GUTFELD: Really?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, I do speaking engagements at high schools.

HEGSETH: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: You know, and that type of thing. But for college, I think it would be great. I mean, everybody here at the table here has such great experience and life experience and how, you know, we all got this point.

But I would say don't be afraid to, you know, be your own advocate. Don't be afraid of the -- you know, I took about it in my book. Because people get too afraid to put themselves out there and to make a positive move in their life for change. Like Dana, kind of coupled with yours in terms of don't be afraid to move.

I moved across country from, you know, San Francisco as first lady there. I took a big leap and jump, came to New York -- didn't know anybody here -- to embark on a brand-new, you know, exciting career that I was passionate about. And you don't get to those points unless you're willing to take those chances.

HEGSETH: Amen. So Juan, you're not giving an address but besides "Make America great again" what would your address be?

WILLIAMS: I like that one. Do you think I could get a hat, Pete?

HEGSETH: You could. I'll get you one.

GUILFOYLE: He knows a guy.

WILLIAMS: Because I think Kanye has one, so I could, you know.

No. You know, so I always say to people surprise yourself. You know, like go beyond the bounds. So it picks up on the whole idea that, you know, Dana said, you know, like, being willing to move. Be willing to get out and go and challenge yourself.

GUILFOYLE: Challenge. Yes.

WILLIAMS: Learn a foreign language. Travel. So many people don't travel. When you're young is the best time. I always envy the Mormons for sending young people out into the world. I think that's a great idea.


HEGSETH: Good idea.

GUILFOYLE: Don't be complacent and stand still in life. Right?

GUTFELD: You know what my advice is?


GUTFELD: Don't take any advice.

HEGSETH: Yes. Mine is life doesn't give you seatbelts. So unbuckle every once in a while.

PERINO: Great advice.

HEGSETH: Unbuckle.

PERINO: You may want to take that back.

HEGSETH: All right. "One More Thing" is up next. Stick around.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Kimberly.


(singing): Happy birthday to you

PERINO: This our 7th or 8th birthday together.

GUTFELD: You could actually jump out of that cake. Look how big that cake is. Look at the cake.

GUILFOYLE: We love you and adore you and you're one the best people I've ever met.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: I absolutely treasure you and such an amazing friend in my life. And I'm so happy to celebrate the day that you were born.

PERINO: With my mom's favorite cake, the lemon cake from Del Frisco. My mom would love it. Thank you, Kimberly. And it matches your dress, which is amazing.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, indeed.

GUTFELD: If you steal any, it won't matter.

PERINO: Thank you, everybody.

WILLIAMS: Are you the first born?

PERINO: Am I the first born? Yes.

WILLIAMS: Happy -- we owe something to your mom. She did a great job.

PERINO: Thanks, thanks everyone.

GUILFOYLE: And thank you for Del Frisco's, Felix, who also wished you a happy birthday, because we love you.

PERINO: Felix, my mom, Jan Perino, she loves this lemon cake. So she will be jealous.

GUILFOYLE: She does.

PERINO: Next time she's in New York we'll get it for her.

HEGSETH: This is for Dana.

GUILFOYLE: She's always like, "Give me the cake."

GUTFELD: Also the Clintons' favorite cake.

PERINO: All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: This is the Clintons' favorite cake.

WILLIAMS: How do you know that?

GUTFELD: Yellow cake.

GUILFOYLE: I thought it was me.

PERINO: I'm going to go. One month ago -- one month ago today this happened.


GUTFELD: You know what unicorns love? They love ambrosia salad fajitas. And strawberry bacon and marshmallow steak.

GUILFOYLE: Jasper does not like that.

PERINO: Jasper is like, "When can I get a hold of that thing?"

GUILFOYLE: It looks like a very evil unicorn.

PERINO: Happy birthday, Jasper. "Special Report" is up next. Hi, Bret.

GUILFOYLE: He's murdering it.

GUTFELD: He's eating the unicorn.


PERINO: So Greg is a wonderful uncle to Jasper, even though he doesn't want to be one. But he gave Jasper that unicorn, and this is what it looked like last night, a month later.

GUTFELD: Look at that.

PERINO: Slowly -- slowly it's being destroyed.

GUTFELD: That's abuse.

All right. What am I doing?

GUILFOYLE: Have a bite of cake.

GUTFELD: Oh, podcast. podcast. I have an interview with the great professor Bret Weinstein. He was the infamous, if you want to Google his name, you'll hear about the Evergreen State College controversy.

And if you're in Brooklyn tonight, you might see me at a Power Trip concert, if I can get over there in time. I don't even know.


GUTFELD: Grass, baby.


PERINO: Bless you.

WILLIAMS: The pollen count is really bad right now everywhere, but especially to Northeast. How bad you ask? Well, watch this video from Millville, New Jersey, as a backhoe taps a tree. You're going to want to grab a bag of tissues, folks.

Yes, watch this. That's pollen, clouds of pollen falling from above.


WILLIAMS: Blooming maple, birch and oaks are the main culprits because a cool April has led to a month of May with lots of late-blooming pollen- laden plants. People with allergies, well, you should keep the windows closed and head to the drugstore for those runny noses and headaches.

GUTFELD: That's tree porn. It's tree porn.

GUILFOYLE: That sounded like an advertisement for Claritin.

PERINO: All right, Pete, your turn. You love the cake.

HEGSETH: I do love the cake. The yellow cake. Thank you, Greg.

So as we know, they're moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in Israel. Well, on Tuesday, the Jerusalem mayor announced that a square near the new U.S. embassy in Jerusalem will be named United States Square --


HEGSETH: -- to honor President Trump.

PERINO: That's great.

HEGSETH: Happening on the 70th anniversary of Israel's independence. I mean, it wouldn't -- wouldn't be a square without President Trump.

GUTFELD: It's the biggest square there.

HEGSETH: It didn't have four sides.

PERINO: It's the biggest square, the best square, the most beautiful square.

HEGSETH: It's the largest.

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop. These people are mocking our president.

HEGSETH: We were saluting our president.

PERINO: We are just joining in. We're joining in. He does it.

OK. Well, that was fun. Thanks for the birthday cake, everyone. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.

Hey, Bret. I don't have anything funny.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: No? Enjoy the yellow cake.

PERINO: Thank you.

BAIER: Happy birthday, Dana.

PERINO: Thank you.

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