Ramsey Family Investigators Reveal What They Know About JonBenet's Murder

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," August 17, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: "Personal story" segment tonight, in 1999, the Ramsey family hired two private investigators to look into the intruder theory that someone entered the Ramsey home and killed little Jonbenet.

As I mentioned in the "Talking Points Memo," Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter did not really buy into that theory.

Joining us now from Colorado Springs are John San Agustin and Ollie Gray, the private eyes retained by the Ramseys.

Mr. Gray, we'll begin with you. Are you buying Karr's story that he killed Jonbenet?

OLLIE GRAY, RAMSEY FAMILY PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I don't know about his story that he killed her. I do know that he seems to have some knowledge about the crime. And he needs to have further investigation, which I think the D.A.'s office is in the process of doing.

O'REILLY: How about you, Mr. San Agustin? Do you believe this guy's story. And do you know what knowledge of the crime he might have that nobody knows ?

GRAY: You know, it's going to be difficult to respond to that question because we haven't seen what District Attorney Mary Lacy's staff has seen.

O'REILLY: All right, based upon your investigation, Mr. San Agustin, you came to what conclusion?

JOHN SAN AGUSTIN, RAMSEY FAMILY PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, I mean, if you look at the physical evidence in this case, we have foreign DNA in her panties and under her fingernails that matched nobody in the Ramsey family.

You have signs of an intrusion. You have a basement window that is open with a suitcase at the base of that window, along with some broken glass on top of that suitcase.

O'REILLY: Now why didn't Hunter, the D.A., buy that then?

SAN AGUSTIN: You know, sir, I have never got involved with Mr. Hunter so I can't tell you why he didn't explore the intruder theory.

O'REILLY: Surely, you must have talked to some of the police officers in Boulder and, again, they are laying it on and the police officers in Boulder didn't buy it.

SAN AGUSTIN: I think what has happened is that, immediately when this murder happened, the focus of the investigation was on Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey. And I think that the investigation lost all of its objectivity. They weren't able to explore that intruder theory because they already...

O'REILLY: They were trying to make the crime fit their theory.

SAN AGUSTIN: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: How do you think it went down, Mr. Gray?

GRAY: I think it went down just like you said, Bill. They created a scenario and tried to make the findings or create the evidence that would support their theory or their scenario. I don't think that it was Alex Hunter's office as much as a police department that didn't want to follow that theory because it was way out of their concept.

O'REILLY: What do you think happened, Mr. Gray, based upon all you know?

GRAY: As far as the starting of the case?

O'REILLY: The murder of JonBenet, what do you think happened there?

GRAY: I think we had an intruder. I think we had a pedophile. And the person is a vicious individual. And whatever went wrong, whether it was a kidnapping, started that way. And then changed over to the sexual assault-murder. It's just one of those things that went astray, but I definitely feel that it's an outsider, an intruder.

O'REILLY: All right. So the case really comes down to, gentlemen, the DNA. There's enough DNA, as you said, Mr. San Agustin, that the police have that, if it matches Karr, he's guilty. If it doesn't match, I don't think they can get a conviction, particularly if his wife said, "He was with me Christmas 1996 in Alabama."

SAN AGUSTIN: Well, I don't agree with the statement that it's either the DNA or it's not. There are other aspects of the crime scene that may point him there. We obviously have a piece of a paintbrush. We have an unidentified footwear impression in one of the rooms. We have a lot of evidence there at the scene that can still point this individual to that scene. So if you just say, you know, the DNA...

O'REILLY: But if the DNA doesn't match, you know, that means there was somebody else there. I mean, it just gets to be — the top of your head is going to blow off, you know.

GRAY: Not necessarily. You can always jump into the fact what we've also thought there was more than one person involved.

O'REILLY: Oh, you do? You both think there's more than one person involved in this?

GRAY: I think there's a possibility.

SAN AGUSTIN: Again, keep in mind, in that one room we have an identified footwear impression and an unidentified. Either the person was using two different shoes or we have two different individuals.

O'REILLY: All right, gentlemen, we appreciate you coming on tonight. Obviously, whatever comes in, we're going to let the folks know right away. Thank you.

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