Press puts down Trump ahead of high-stakes summit with Kim Jong Un

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 25, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I am Jesse Watters along with Jedediah, Juan, Katie, and Greg. It's five in New York and this is "The Five."

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Katie and Greg.

WATTERS: President Trump on his way to a second high-stakes summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. The pair is set to face later this week in Vietnam. President Trump looking to continue progress made during the first sit down and is optimistic North Korea will eventually give up its nukes.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think we can have a very good summit. I think we'll have a very tremendous summit. We want denuclearization, and I think will have a country that will set a lot of records for speed in terms of an economy.


WATTERS: Meanwhile, the mainstream media is already trashing Trump and throwing cold water on any positive outcome from the talks.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this visit just for lack of a better word a romantic visit?

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: The president says that he loved Kim Jong-un again this weekend. Love and kisses. I don't know. Do they send each other --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is so disturbing and dangerous.

SCARBOROUGH: -- a Valentine's card?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My worry is that this negotiation, this summit may be a dud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're saying the president is going to get played?

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: I think the president is just looking for good press. I mean, let's just be frank. He felt like he got a good press after the last one and he figures another photo op might do that.


WATTERS: Here's how you know how biased the mainstream media is. When he was tough on Kim, then he was going to create a nuclear holocaust. And now when he is engaging with Kim, it's a romance.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's interesting how this criticism is bordering on homophobia. The same thing they did with Trump and Putin. Remember, they had them making out. It's like only on the left can you get away with these kinds of slides that they think are somehow humorous. If any of us had done something like that with say a liberal like President Obama, we would be --

WATTERS: He was actually exchanging letters with the ayatollah and giving them cash.  WATTERS: So here's the thing. You got to address the human rights abuses. You can't just ignore that. But it is possible to pursue the external threats which are nuclear weapons, separating that from the internal injustices within the country. That is a longer pace. There are 70-some odd countries that criminalize homosexuality. We still deal with them. So you got to -- you can deal with this thing separately, the external threat, the internal injustice.

But if you conflate them which is what CNN is doing, putting them together, you will never solve an external threat because you're going to be too busy arguing over what internally is going on in their country. Therefore, you will never ever be able to say reduce the nuclear threat of North Korea and then every day will be January 13th, 2018 in Hawaii with the ballistic missile threat. Can I just go all Jordan Peterson?

WATTERS: Sure, whatever that means.


GUTFELD: This whole North Korea gambit is audacious and to most people absurd. But to get to some to some place realistic and practical, you have to start with a fantasy. For example, to get to astronomy, you had to start with astrology. That is a Jordan Peterson saying. And I do think it needed a political CEO to come up with something so absurd, simple philosophy of let's see what happens, because no one else was going to do this.

And we have all moved on from the absurd notion of engaging North Korea because we're actually seeing progress. So what you're seeing is the beginning of a fantasy to something real. And to Juan, the left should embrace this because you can throw it back at us and go, what about free health care? What about the New Green Deal? Those are fantasies that start audaciously and then move to something practical. In a weird way, Donald Trump is the guy you go to about green deals and free health care.  JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I am all for it. I'm all for Trump embracing the Green New Deal.  GUTFELD: You see my point?

WILLIAMS: I see your point.

GUTFELD: You started something crazy and you move to something good.  WILLIAMS: Hey, dude, I listened to you.


WILLIAMS: No, I take him seriously.

WATTERS: Of all the people, Juan says dude here.

WILLIAMS: But I must say it did sound like you were saying what's wrong with audacious?


WILLIAMS: I'm sure the people who are green new dealers are listening and saying Greg Gutfeld, unbelievable.  GUTFELD: No, that's my -- my point is that when you have somebody like Trump, you don't know what to expect. This is just one of those things. And to just sit there and keep making jokes like morning Bosso (ph), you know - -

WILLIAMS: On the other hand, you do have people -- you and Jesse say the media. But I don't think Dan Coats is the media.

GUTFELD: You're right.

WILLIAMS: Dan Coats is the National Security -- director of National Security.

WATTERS: He is not saying anything cynical and sarcastic. He is saying that, yes, they have stopped with the rockets and the nuclear testing, but we haven't seen any progress towards denuclearization and that's something that they want to accomplish in Vietnam.

WILLIAMS: But they stopped -- they pledged to stop the nuclear testing before the first meeting.

WATTERS: I think they are clear eyed about what to expect from the North Koreans, aren't they? They know this is not a regime. It always tells the truth.

JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah. The funniest part of that montage for me is that he would be doing this because he is looking for good press. Good press from who? These people have already decided that he's going to be a failure. I think he should be careful. I think Trump sometimes talks a little bit too much. I think he comes out --

WATTERS: You do?

BILA: I do.


BILA: I think he is very optimistic. He wants to come out. He is the dealmaker. He thinks of himself like that. He thinks himself as someone who is going to get stuff done that other presidents may not have been able to accomplish. In some case, that's true. But I think when he says this really bold things like, you know, Chairman Kim will make a wise decision, you don't know if he is going to make a wise decision.

Don't put that stuff out there. That's like Mexico is going to pay for the wall. Hold back a little bit. It's very easy to just say look, I'm going in there with the best of intentions. I hope for denuclearization. It's going to be good for their economy. I hope they take my side on this. I don't know what is going to happen. Let's hope for the best and see how it goes.

When you make those statements, it makes you feel then obligated to cave a little bit to get a deal done because it doesn't do him any justice. So I will just say be a little more cautious about it. Know who you're dealing. Know that this is a dictator that is not always reliable, that does high missile sites.

It's not like you're doing with an ally here. You're not. And just hold some of that back. And obviously, no matter what he does, the media's going to rail against him. If he didn't go, he would be someone who didn't care about diplomacy. So he can't win with them regardless. That's a big joke. But just for the people who support him --

WILLIAMS: Jesse --

BILA: -- hold back a little bit.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, I have to go out of character here.

WATTERS: Are you going to tell the truth?

WILLIAMS: This Trump bashing at this table has to stop. I just can't believe it.


WILLIAMS: I can't believe it.


KATIE PAVLICH, CO-HOST: Look, I don't think that one he says he will make this decision about economic prosperity, that he's expecting it. He's giving Kim Jong-un a choice. He is saying this is the only choice for you. We're putting this on the table. We are not coming in militarily right now even though I put that option on the table before. But this is really the choice that you should make. And he knows exactly who he is dealing with. He knows he is dealing with a dictator who loves movies, who loves western culture, who loves western sports.

He is trying to incentivize him to say look, you can be a western superpower. You can engage in all of these new cultural things for your country without having regime change. We are not talking about taking you out, man. We are just saying you can stay as long as you decide to embrace these cultural norms, clean it up a little bit, stop threatening us, and then we can move forward.

Eventually, the White House is going to get impatient. The president has said that he's not in a hurry. He is on a timeline. But eventually they're going to want something in return other than just stopping the missile testing. That is something that the second summit will hopefully provide.

Talking to him and saying look, we've had this agreement, you have exchanged no missile testing, but now it is time to talk about your nuclear program. And the Intelligence Community does say that you are still building sites. You're not getting rid of them. And it is about time that you stop doing those things. You're doing this in good faith and you seem not to be doing it in return.

GUTFELD: I think you have to be -- you have to be skeptical of course about this. You would be crazy if you weren't skeptical. But again, people were skeptical about the moon shot, right? When people talk about going to Mars, that's crazy, but people think about this. You think about these things.

Ending the Korean War, we were talking about ending the Korean War two years ago. That's going to happen. The Korean War is going to end and it has a lot to do with this insane process. This is a foreign policy moon shot. It's going to take time. I think the Korean War could take decades but we know it's going to happen.

WILLIAMS: I was skeptical about George Clooney's tequila.


GUTFELD: There you go! See, we can all change our minds.

WILLIAMS: But I must say, what are we putting on the table is what you hear from people in Washington say. Oh, so we're going to end the Korean War, for what? We're going to deal with diplomatic --

GUTFELD: What do you need?

WILLIAMS: -- station --

WATTERS: Juan, I will tell you what we're not doing.

WILLIAMS: Hold on.


WILLIAMS: The possibility that we recognize North Korea as a nuclear state. Why would we do that? I mean, you had Gina Haspel at CIA. You have Dan Coats saying these guys have no intention to abandon their nuclear ambitions.

WATTERS: I will tell you what we are not going to do.


WATTERS: We are not going to send them pallets and pallets of cash in the dead of night.

WILLIAMS: We didn't do it.

WATTERS: We did it with Iran, Juan. Remember that? Student activists confronting Senator Feinstein over the Green New Deal and it doesn't really go their way.  (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: There is no way to pay for it. I have been doing this for 30 years. I know what I'm doing.


WATTERS: More from that testy exchange up next.


GUTFELD: On Friday, a bunch of middle school and high school students confronted Dianne Feinstein at her office to demand she back the Green New Deal.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some scientists have said that we have 12 years to turn this around.  FEINSTEIN: Well, it's not going to get turned around in 10 years. What we can do is put ourselves --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, if this doesn't get turned around in 10 years, you are looking at the faces of the people who are going to be living with the consequences.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The government is supposed to be for the people and by the people.



GUTFELD: For once, an adult wasn't having it. Feinstein spoke truth to toddlers.


FEINSTEIN: Because there is no way to pay for this. I've been doing this for 30 years. I know what I'm doing. You come in here and you say it has to be my way or the highway. I don't respond to that. I've gotten elected. I just ran. I was elected by almost a million votes. I know what I'm doing. So, you know, maybe people should listen a little bit.


GUTFELD: My goodness. She is about five minutes away from telling them to get out of her yard.


GUTFELD: What does that remind you of? When Feinstein says to the kids, there's no way to pay for it, she sounds exactly like a Republican talking to a Democrat. Finally, sketcher is on the other foot. I'm sure some people thought Feinstein was too mean to the kinds who are no doubt parroting slogans programmed by adults who see the kids as conduits for the latest left-wing software.

But the truth hurts. And if you're going to use a kid as a political shield, you put them in the way of the truth. More important, if you don't feel a little grossed when you see kids used as props, there's something wrong with you. These kids are pushing a plan that bans fossil fuels in 10 years. Do you think in a few years they will feel the same way when they get their learner's permit?

But don't blame them. It's the parents, the teachers, the activists. They know that their untenable political positions require propaganda to survive. You got to get the pawns when they're young and then hope and pray they don't grow out of your stupid ideas. Jesse, I am going to start off and say that this works on both sides. I can't stand kids on the left, brats on the right. Do you remember --

WATTERS: You can't stand kids.

GUTFELD: Do you remember Jonathan Krohn? Does that ring a bell?


GUTFELD: This kid was all over Fox. He was like 13, right-winger.

WATTERS: I interviewed him.

GUTFELD: Of course you did.


GUTFELD: They tried to get him on "Red Eye." I said no. He's not on "Red Eye" ever because I know it's gross.

PAVLICH: He's a lefty.

GUTFELD: Yeah, he's a lefty.

WATTERS: I know he's a lefty.

GUTFELD: But he is actually a decent reporter. He goes to Syria. He's become somewhat of an individual.  WATTERS: So maybe these kids are going to turn out to be conservatives.

GUTFELD: Just like you, Jesse.

WATTERS: Just like me.


GUTFELD: Little Jesses.

WATTERS: Listen, you know, these kids have bedtimes. They shouldn't be running U.S. industrial policy. They can't play with matches. All of a sudden, she is supposed to say oh, you are right, great point, Susie. Let me go tell my staff that we are going to die in 12 years. It's funny how she handled it. It's kind of like a grandparent during Thanksgiving when the grandchild comes home from college and they start talking about global warming and the grandparents are like, it's freezing, we are going to Naples in two weeks, what are you talking about?


WATTERS: So I think there's two things going on here. One, on the left, when you're wrong, you get promoted. For instance, Al Gore said all the polarized caps were going to melt by 2014. Well, they are still there. What's her name? AOC says the world is going to end in 2030, but I bet we wake up in 2030 and she's even more powerful. It's called failing up.

What's also happening, the Democratic Party is now splitting into three groups, Greg. You have the adults and you have the children and the adults pretending to be children in order to win the election. The adults are like the Schultzs (ph) and the Feinsteins and know the things scam.

The children are like the AOCs and the Bernies that actually believe this stuff. And then you have the adults pretending to be children to get elected like Volker (ph) and Feinstein. They know it can't work but they pander to these people in order to get votes.

GUTFELD: Let's throw just one more piece of tape from that meeting. This is my favorite part.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are the people who voted you? You're supposed to listen to us.

FEINSTEIN: How old are you?


FEINSTEIN: You didn't vote for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are the ones who are going to be impacted.


PAVLICH: Reality check from Dianne Feinstein.

GUTFELD: Somebody who has had it. I mean, you didn't vote for me. Get out of here.

PAVLICH: You're 16. You can't vote yet or you're one of my illegal voters in California. Maybe that was it. But Jesse, kids can play with matches because they emit carbon dioxide.

WATTERS: Oh, that's right.

PAVLICH: It actually helps, you know --

GUTFELD: We are anti-arson here.

PAVLICH: I can tell you, as a child who won a recycling art contest when I was like nine --

WATTERS: Oh, my God.

PAVLICH: I can tell you this is all indoctrination. AOC got on her YouTube or whatever, her live feed and was talking about the world was going to end and we have to do something about it, which prove that these people believe in so much government that they think government is the only response to any of this and we are all going to die.

These predictions were made before. In 1970, Paul Ehrlich predicted that 65 million Americans were going to die off as a result of the environment. Well, that never happened. And so this is indoctrination. It's a leftist group that came into her office with a special interest project. They used kids to do it. And I thought she reacted pretty well.

GUTFELD: Juan, we mentioned AOC. I tried to keep our portions of AOC down to five percent.


GUTFELD: Throw the AOC out there. This is her talking about like what we should do in an apocalyptic scenario that we are facing now.


REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: It's gotten worse. I don't think that working on an issue for 30 years alone is what qualifies. And it's what makes someone qualified to solve an issue. It's basically like there is scientific consensus that the lives of children are going to be very difficult, and it does lead, I think, young people to have a legitimate question. Is it OK to still have children?


GUTFELD: I agree with her, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think you do.

GUTFELD: You know I do.

WILLIAMS: Yes, you do.

GUTFELD: She said all of her peers don't have kids. I am saying nobody -- kids just get in my way, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Is that right? And they emit greenhouse gases.

GUTFELD: Sometimes involuntarily all over you.  WILLIAMS: By the way, I think some of the polarized caps are melting. But I just go to say --

GUTFELD: The polarized.

WILLIAMS: I think Greg was trying to save you guys because things like turning points USA, a lot of young kids who are out there and used as the base of that --

PAVLICH: They are adults, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, they are kids.

PAVLICH: They are adults and college. They are not 10-year-olds.

WILLIAMS: I can tell you a lot of them are high school and college kids, and they don't vote.

PAVLICH: They are not 10-year-old babies.

WILLIAMS: What I mean to say, I thought Senator Feinstein who I have tremendous respect for, know her and like her very much, had an opportunity to engage those young people. I must say, I spoke at a high school this morning --

PAVLICH: You did in a realistic form.

WILLIAMS: And you know what I said to them? I said you guys don't vote. You don't give money. And that's what the senator was saying. You don't vote. You don't give money. But that's a pretty cynical thing to say to young people who are becoming politically-engaged, who are making a visit to Washington, a visit to their senator. She missed an opportunity there.

GUTFELD: I agree.  BILA: She knew that it was a trap.

WILLIAMS: There is no trap.

BILA: You have a bunch of kids there. They are reading rehearsed talking points. You have a grown adult standing right there. This happens all the time in schools. I worked at a school. You have an adult or a moderator or a dean or whatever it is and they want their agenda pushed so they hand kids a bunch of propaganda and then the kids repeated. She knew it. She was standing there saying this is --

WILLIAMS: Excuse me, if those kids came to you or to me, Jedediah, I think we could hold on to our positions that have been worked through but at the same time --

BILA: That's also edited, Juan. That's edited.

WILLIAMS: Hold on. At the same time, make those young people feel special. She didn't do that.

BILA: Juan, I would have said to those young people --

PAVLICH: Adults are lying to those kids and Dianne Feinstein --

WILLIAMS: Why are they lying?

PAVLICH: -- because they are telling them this is what we can do, it is totally reasonable, and she is the only adult who actually told them the truth.

BILA: She said we can't pay for it.

WILLIAMS: OK, I disagree. If you consider her truth --

PAVLICH: And the feelings are not --

WILLIAMS: -- because her truth agrees with you, Katie.

PAVLICH: You want to have this discussion on feelings and she was being honest about --

WILLIAMS: No, I am just saying, young people, those kids, they should be told that it makes a difference if go to your elected --

BILA: She said that.

WILLIAMS: -- representative, they will listen to you.

BILA: Juan, she said I am putting forth important climate legislation but we cannot pay for it. She doesn't want them to be delusional.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's not true.

WATTERS: They said the kids are going to be alive in 12 years. Is that a bad thing?

WILLIAMS: No, that's a good thing.

GUTFELD: I think about telling your kids --

WILLIAMS: Greg said he don't want any kid.


GUTFELD: What kind of parent tells your child, you're going to be dead in 12 years? That's a great parent. I'll go. I think using kids as a way to avoid a real debate. If I put a kid in front of me, you don't give your best foot forward. You can't argue with a kid. Maybe every Democrat should bring a child to the debate stand. That would be great.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. You mean I can't bring Jesse to work anymore?


WILLIAMS: I've been bringing you to work.

GUTFELD: Is Hillary considering a 2020 run? A former staffer says there is one reason she may enter the race.


WILLIAMS: The right charging Democrats with hypocrisy over taking money from wealthy donors. Senator Elizabeth Warren is now promising to end that. She says she will no longer hold fundraisers or even take phone calls from rich campaign contributors. This as Bernie Sanders continues to face criticism for his use of a private jet during the 2016 campaign.

A Clinton campaign staffer saying, "His Royal Majesty King Bernie Sanders would only deign to leave his plush D.C. office or his brand new second home on the lake if he was flown around on a cushy private jet like a billionaire master of the universe."

Meanwhile, another former Clinton advisor saying Hillary could still get into the 2020 race.


MARK PENN, FORMER CLINTON ADVISER: I think it depends upon how the field is shaping up. I think if the party looks too far to the left and there's no frontrunner, she will get in. I think if Joe Biden gets in, that probably means she won't run if he gets in. If he doesn't get in, I think the field will be open for her.


GUTFELD: Wow, Jedediah. Are you quaking?

BILA: I can't take Hillary 2.0. I can't do it. I really can't. Haven't we suffered enough? But Warren is the best, you know, saying, oh, I can't take money. Now, even if you agree with her and you are rich, she doesn't want your money. So, I'm curious because with these left-wingers, they always say that their goal is to get you out of poverty, lift you out of poverty.

So at what point when they lift you out of poverty do you hit an income level where you now the bad guy? What's wrong if someone had a lot of money and worked their way up the ladder and happened to be in line with Elizabeth Warren's ideology and wanted to support her, what's wrong with that? What about that twists are? I really want to know. Do you know?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think I have an answer, time of income inequality. Plutocrats are not popular with working people especially people on the west.

GUTFELD: Keep Pluto out of this.

WILLIAMS: Pluto out of it. So Jesse, I think that what she is doing is trying to shame other Democrats. She is saying, hey, other Democrats who are taking money from the big boys from Wall Street, you're going to get hit.

WATTERS: Do you remember the cartoon where Elmer Fudd would try to trap Bugs Bunny and he would set a trap and then Bugs would run around and Elmer would actually get caught in his own trap?


WATTERS: That's what is happening with the Democrats. They are laying traps for Republicans and then they are stepping in it. How are you going to raise money from poor people? She doesn't understand economics. Obviously she does not understand math either. How are you going to raise money from people who don't have money? And she can't talk to rich people. Is she going to hire a homeless guy and say, hey, buddy, take the elevator up to the penthouse. Tell Soros X, Y and Z. It doesn't even make any sense. Bernie is now going to not fly private. What he is going to get? Stuck on the tarmac on a commercial flight. And Mrs. Raleigh because there is maintenance on the aircraft.

Look at these other people, Kamala Harris says, she wants to get rid of Columbus Day and replace it with Indigenous People's Day. There goes the Italian vote. What is she thinking? You're not going to kiss a baby because you need consent from the baby now. It's so stupid. The Democrats are actually becoming more funny and entertaining than Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: That was great.

BILA: That was quite a monologue.

WILLIAMS: So, Katie.


WILLIAMS: I'm thinking to myself--

PAVLICH: But I don't want to follow that, but sure.

WILLIAMS: He was good. But I'm just thinking to myself, in fact contrary to what Jesse said, last week Bernie Sanders raised 6 million bucks in one day. It was pretty impressive.

PAVLICH: First of all, I'm wondering if Elizabeth Warren is going to stop taking phone calls from herself, because she is worth millions of millions of dollars. Right. So, how do you prove actually that you're not taking money from rich people. She first should give up all of her millions and redistribute her own wealth, if she is really going to hold herself to this campaign promise.

She is trying to distinguish herself from the other Democrats in a very crowded field. Bernie Sanders has her beat by a lot. He got 250,000 plus donations or $27 a piece. So, he has got the grassroots cred when it comes to real people, middle class, working class, the poor, Jesse donating to his campaign whereas she keeps trying to find these things that are - that haven't been really her forte in the past. But she is trying to distinguish herself in a crowd, I think.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Bernie said, he got the average donation was $27.

PAVLICH: Yes. Pretty good.

WILLIAMS: That's really Impressive. But I think we should wait for Greg on Bernie flying around.  GUTFELD: OK. So, the thing is, his defense for 342,000 miles of private air, jet use is - it's the best way to get around the country or the best way we can get around the country. He's right. Because as you said, you can leave whenever you want, if you have to get somewhere. But this defense applies for everybody using private jets. It is the best way to get away around because there are no lines, there is no TSA, there is nothing.

So, the only way to what Sanders is saying is the only way to escape the punitive hand of government force is to be part of the government force. The only way for a socialist to enjoy life is to be the socialist in power. It's better to be Santa than to be in Santa's workshop. But when the Democrats become Santa, America is Santa's workshop. We're all working for the fat man and the beard.

BILA: These are rich people living the lives of rich people vilifying other rich people because it sounds good. This is so dumb.

PAVLICH: Implementing policies that keep other people from becoming rich.

BILA: Right. Only them. They are only ones allowed to make money.

GUTFELD: The best part is it allows us to educate people on the differences between capitalism and free market system and socialism, centralism, centralized government versus decentralized, all that stuff. So, I think it's really helpful when this stuff comes up, but rather than calling them names, you've got to nail them for what they believe in.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But I think they believe in that there is too much income inequality--

GUTFELD: They haven't proved it.

WILLIAMS: You guys.

GUTFELD: I've always destroyed that argument, Juan.

WILLIAMS: All right. Let me destroy your argument. There is too much, too big to fail in this country. And when you get this latitude, you can talk about the big hedge funds that are closing plants in the Midwest. You don't talk about guys who are just making money, because they're--

GUTFELD: I talk about that all the time. You just never listen.

WATTERS: Call the names Greg. I want to call them names.

GUTFELD: Yes, you can. I want to call Juan a name.

WILLIAMS: There we go. Yes. Here we go. Chicago's Chief of Police, he's calling names, dropping another bombshell in the Jussie Smollett case. Hear from the next right here on "THE FIVE."


PAVLICH: New developments in the Jussie Smollett's case, after the actor's attorney slam the Chicago police last week and said, the Empire star felt betrayed by the system. The cops now firing back saying they have even more evidence that Smollett staged a hate crime attack.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you this Ram, there is a lot more evidence that hasn't been presented yet that does not support the version that he has.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is more because you presented quite a bit, I mean legal experts said that's the most that they've seen being presented.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Upfront like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there is still a lot of physical evidence, video evidence and testimony that just simply doesn't support his version of what happened.


PAVLICH: The goods and after being criticized for rushing to judgment on Smollett, DNC Chair Tom Perez is defending 2020 Democrats.


TOM PEREZ, CHAIRMAN, DNC: If the allegations that have come out in recent days are true, it's unconscionable because hate crimes - the fact of the matter are on the rise. We acted on the facts as we knew at the time. And here are the facts that we know today. Hate crimes are on the rise.


PAVLICH: All right. I'm going to ask for Gutfeld to fact check.

GUTFELD: Well, we've talked about this a lot here. What's important is you need to look at the increase in the rate of incidents, not in the increase in number, because increase in numbers is due to more reporting and they added a thousand agencies so to validate their work, they say it's an increase in number, but it's not an increase in the rate. Actually, if you look at the rate, it's on the decline.

The rate of incidents was higher. I think maybe 14, 15 years ago than today. So, the good news is, they're actually on the decline. It's hate crimes on the way up. When I went up to the Smollett thing that nobody has talked about is, if the Smollett thing had not been debunked last week, could you have imagined the Oscars last night.  Do you know how he would have had an opening speech? They would have had him singing instead of Lambert in front of Queen. The Oscars would be three hours of Smollett, but instead and this is the amazing thing. No one mentioned him and no one - and it's because they couldn't bear to look at that story because they were staring into a mirror and Hollywood only wants to look at a mirror, if they see what they like or if there is a Coke line on it.

WILLIAMS: In all honesty, I don't think anybody knew who Smollett was before.

PAVLICH: That's true.

WILLIAMS: Last week. But anyway, let me just say--


WILLIAMS: You and I.

GUTFELD: Trump supporters did.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But you and I have been over these numbers.


WILLIAMS: From FBI and you keep saying that, this is not true. It's absolutely true. There has been a spike in hate crime.

GUTFELD: But you never point out what it is.

WILLIAMS: Yes, it is. It's 17 percent.


WILLIAMS: One year to the next. And here's the thing that you're wrong. You keep saying, it's because they increase the number of people reporting by a--

GUTFELD: Thousand agencies.

WILLIAMS: Only - but remember Greg, the universe here was 5,000, so it's up to 6,000.

GUTFELD: Right. That's 70 percent.

WILLIAMS: Just a minute. And you still it's the case that only 2 percent of the law enforcement agencies in the country are reporting to FBI about hate crimes.

GUTFELD: Yes. So, it's not a rate of increase.

WILLIAMS: Most agencies don't even report.

GUTFELD: It's not a rate of increase.

WILLIAMS: And we know that several - that money people are ashamed to report.

GUTFELD: No one is ashamed.

WATTERS: Greg, you made a rookie mistake. You never get into an argument about facts with Juan. That's never going to turn out right.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I agree. Because he can have the facts.

GUTFELD: No, mine is correct. It's about the rate of increase.

PAVLICH: Jedediah.

BILA: I feel like I'm going to hear this conversation in my dreams.

GUTFELD: If you're lucky.


WILLIAMS: Can you imagine you and me in her dreams. You just stay asleep.

GUTFELD: We will be shirtless on unicorns.

WILLIAMS: Shirtless on unicorns.


BILA: Take my night, are you kidding me. Back to the Good Morning America. Katie is trying so hard.  PAVLICH: Superintendent of police from Chicago contrasting that interview with the first interview that Jussie Smollett did with Good Morning America claiming that this happened, saying that if you don't believe him, you're a racist. The media contrast there as well.  BILA: And she had to give this interview because the first one, I mean I think she really wanted him to come out looking strong and like he was telling the truth and it looked like that to many people, so now she came back and said, OK, we have to give a fair shot. I have to talk about Perez though, because he reminds me of what's wrong with the country. People have no shame.

That guy is not embarrassed to represent the DNC and to say, we acted on the facts as we knew at the time. What facts did you have? You had one guy's story at the time. You didn't know if it was true. You didn't bother to wait until the local police did their investigation. You came out. So, he's suggesting that there is justification that if anybody out there makes an allegation about anything and says it and puts that front and center, you're supposed to run a whole bunch of media reports.

Democrats can come out. Democrats running for President can come out and comment on it. They were calling it a modern-day lynching, when people haven't even run an investigation. That is different from TV commentators. This is the guy who is running the DNC. He should be humiliated. There is no shame left.

WATTERS: I would just say that the media led the Democrats over a cliff on this one. And Donald Trump can just say, these guys have poor instincts. I have great instincts and they guessed wrong. And as President I would guess right. Now, look at the terror attack situation. Whenever there is a terror attack and someone yells Allah Akbar and everybody really knows the truth, the media very reticent there, always want to wait to the facts come out. But if there is a hate crime and Trump people involved, lightning fast to convict.

WILLIAMS: Oh! Yes. That's why we're paying so much attention to that Coast Guard guy.

GUTFELD: By the way, Trump did send out a tweet about everything.

BILA: Cavanaugh, Covington. I mean it's getting to be funny.

PAVLICH: All right. We've got to go. Bill Maher taking a shot at Red State Americans. His absurd comments ahead next on "The Five."


BILA: Welcome back. Well, Bill Maher is mocking Americans who live in the middle of the country claiming they're jealous of blue states. Take a look:


BILL MAHER, AMERICAN COMEDIAN, TELEVISION HOST, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The most affluent and educated people are clustered in just a few cities. The blue parts of America are having a big Prosperity Party while that big sea of red feels like their invitation got lost in the mail. The flyover states have become the past over states. That's why Red State voters are so pissed off. They don't hate us. They want to be us. They want to go to the party.


BILA: Lovely. You know, Juan, I've got to say, there is a denseness on the left. Hopefully not with you, but this is why Trump won. I don't know how many times we have to say it, when you insult whole sections of the country and then you know maybe pull a Hillary and don't even campaign there. This is not a good strategy. Why do they think this is going to work with anyone outside of the top of the top of the top most elitist and maybe New York and Los Angeles?

WILLIAMS: What? High. Lots of piety.

GUTFELD: No, I'm just looking at the lower third. Never mind.

WILLIAMS: Wait. What did he say?

GUTFELD: It's a high snobity.

PAVLICH: Whoever wrote that--

WILLIAMS: Snobity. So, two things to say. One is, you could make the interpretation and in fact he is saying, hey Amazon, go locate in the middle of the country. Go to Red America to areas where there isn't that kind of economic activity, go there. That's one way and that would be a more generous interpretation.

BILA: Much more.

WILLIAMS: Than the one that you offer. But the second thing to say is that you know a lot of times there is just I think people like me don't understand. How can a third of a country remain no matter what happen, just remain locked into Trump. And so, people do ask questions, what--

WATTERS: Well, that's what we say about New York City, Juan.

BILA: That happens all the time.

WATTERS: That's what we are saying about New York City.

WILLIAMS: What do you mean?

WATTERS: No matter what, they all love Democrats. That's right.

WILLIAMS: It's like New York values Ted Cruz.


WILLIAMS: I don't think.

GUTFELD: No, it is. That's the same thing. What we're talking about really is a mirror. What we like - what Bill Maher is doing shorthand is exactly what we do when we talk about California and New York being the left coasts. He is doing the same thing, but he is using references from 1980 when he says that the red states are RD and the blue states are Wolfgang Puck. He might as well say well, the blue states are a mod and the red states are all in the family. He's out of touch.

The coolest towns in America right now are Marfa, Texas, Boise, Idaho, Nashville, Tennessee, Butte, Montana. The best eating and music isn't in Brentwood, California. Hardly. Culture has been democratized. He just never leaves his house.

PAVLICH: Well, on Hollywood always goes to red states to film their movies because the economics are better for them.

GUTFELD: That's true.

PAVLICH: And places like California and New York actually have the largest to Juan's point wealth disparity between rich and poor in the country. California is actually a poverty-stricken place that is fueled by the socialist programs that they've implemented over the years. New York, you can make the same argument.

So, this idea that middle America is jealous of California, New York, they aren't because people are fleeing California, fleeing New York. The Governor of New York is complaining about not having enough tax revenue because people are leaving, the numbers just don't add up.  BILA: He was talking about Jesse. Bill Maher was the guy in 2013 talking about how the taxes were so high, getting so high in California that they might drive him out. So, he knows full well that these policies in a lot of these blue states are just stifling people to death and driving them out.

WATTERS: Yes, everyone is leaving for Texas and Florida and I don't think red state people are angry. It's the left that's like lighting things on fire and punching people in the face and screaming at the sky. And I don't even know what the definition of educated is, because when I've done Walters Worlds, Venice Beach, Manhattan, those people are the oblivious ones. You mentioned food.

You can go to a restaurant in Iowa and get a locally procured ribeye perfectly cooked for about $20. You go to a Michelin rated restaurant in Southern California, you pay $70 for a little fillet that big and who is leaving that hungry.

BILA: That's right. Because rich often defines for me how much you can actually get with your money and educated, it doesn't mean you know whether you went to an Ivy League school. People around me in New York I'm the first person to say, I grew up not learning how to do basic things. I can't change a tire. I can't build a fire.

WATTERS: We love the poorly educated.

BILA: It's true. I mean people around the country do better - know how to. It's a different kind of smart. Not once not better or worse. I don't appreciate his general decisions.

WILLIAMS: No wonder, Warren Buffett still living out there in the middle of nowhere.

PAVLICH: Right. Well, One More Thing is coming up next.


WATTERS: Time now for One More Thing. Breaking nutrition news. This goes against everything anybody believes about food. New study.


WATTERS: Studies are always right.


WATTERS: Nutritionists (Chelsea) from New York City says, a piece of pizza is more healthy for breakfast than a bowl of cereal.

GUTFELD: Of course, it is.

WATTERS: They say pizza has more protein and pizza has less sugar.


WATTERS: And she's not recommending you eat pizza for breakfast. But it's a better option than a bowl of cereal.

GUTFELD: That's because cereals not - it's all corn syrup.

PAVLICH: And sugar.

WILLIAMS: Is she comparing this to Captain Crunch?

WATTERS: Yes, well maybe not honey.

PAVLICH: Cereals like a waste.

WATTERS: All right, Greg,

GUTFELD: Also, both pizza and Captain Crunch, they burn your mouth. You remember your skin falls off--

BILA: Captain Crunch doesn't burn your mouth.

GUTFELD: You've never had Captain Crunch mouth.

WATTERS: Those are thoughts of Greg, so watch out.

GUTFELD: It's time for Greg's cat off. You know the rules, I play three cat videos and the panel votes on the best one. Let's go to number one. Cat video number one. Look at him get a little scratch. That feel good. Look at him, he has never felt anything better. That's great. All right. I've had enough of this adorable little brat. Let's go to the next one. Here we've got. It looks like we've walked in on something, haven't we? And then he noticed it now. Now he's getting a little frozen up, it's like can't you guys leave us alone. We are in love. We are in love. Get a room. You cats. And look at this one. Everything in slow motion is 10 times better including a fluffy cat. Sometimes I feel like it is.

WATTERS: That's because you've had a lot to drink.

GUTFELD: That's true. Vote.

BILA: Cat massage one.

WILLIAMS: Number one.

WATTERS: Number one.

PAVLICH: Number one.

GUTFELD: I was going to go with number two with the intimate--

WATTERS: You're sick.

GUTFELD: Yes, because I'm a freak.

BILA: You're little dirty.

GUTFELD: All right.

WATTERS: Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: All right. So, you know spring training is underway in Florida and Arizona and I'm getting excited to be on it. So, here's an early tease for my fellow baseball fans. Take a look at this. Watch Daniele Gibson of the Arkansas razor back. She made history with four at bats in the first four innings. We'll look at this.

BILA: No freaking way.

WILLIAMS: Yes, there is a way. The six-foot Gibson is only the second division 1 softball player to hit a solo homer, followed by a two-run homer, followed by a three-run homer and then a grand slam. No, major league player has ever done that. Wow. Congratulations.

PAVLICH: Pitchers having a rough day. Rough day for the pitcher. OK. So, a Scottish woman saw, she was in Australia and she saw a snake slithering around her room. So, she went to look for it, couldn't find it. Then she flew all the way home. 9,000-mile flight. She unpacked and there was a python inside of one of her shoes - the luggage under the plane because it's cold blooded.

GUTFELD: Snakes on a plane. I've got to say it people. I've got to say it.

BILA: And really scary. So, if you see a snake, take it seriously and find it before it kills you. OK. I will be at CPAC on Friday speaking at 11:00 AM. I am moderating a panel on foreign policy. See you there.

WATTERS: All right. Jedediah.

BILA: I'm traumatized by that snake now. I have to congratulate Mitzi. Mitzi has just been adopted, once dubbed Britain's fattest cat, used to be 17 pounds, now 11 pounds. Finally found a permanent home after being returned to the same shelter four times for different reasons and--

GUTFELD: Because she's fat.

BILA: Just to add in you know 17 pounds isn't that big for a cat. My parents have a cat that's--

GUTFELD: Eating them out of house and home.

BILA: Eating them out of house and home. But congratulations to Mitzi. Beautiful story. Happy ending for her.

WATTERS: Maybe now the cat can make out with another cat.

GUTFELD: There you go.

WILLIAMS: How do you think they make that thing for humans.

BILA: I was thinking about that.

WATTERS: I'll get you--

BILA: That.

WATTERS: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."

"Special Report" is up next.

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