President Trump's immigration order

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 7, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and she plays kickball with caviar, Dana Perino -- "Le Five."

A big time drug dealer just commuted by President Obama crashed his car into another driver while fleeing a drug deal involving a kilo of coke. I know. What did you expect? Obama commutes 1,700 thugs so there are bound to be a few bad eggs, right? It's the same logic behind the Gitmo release. Sure, some will return to try to kill you, but at least we're doing the right thing.

It's worth a few bad guys getting through if you could demonstrate your moral superiority over jerks who favor radical notions like enhanced security, longer jail sentences and real borders. The left favors feel-good sentiment over safety where it eases liberal guilt. It's the exact opposite of a border, a travel ban, a new prison. It's a child's view versus an adult's.

If America wasn't so lucky to have a moat of oceans around it, these infants would turn the country into a porous hellhole. It'd be like Somalia: totally open, totally deadly. It's something that adults understand however. Restrictions enhance freedom, security maintains rights.

But for liberals, restrictions are mean and they can't bear being seen as mean. But the right doesn't mind being hated. It means we plugged some holes. We get it: A locked door is exclusionary and how dare your safety take priority over progressive emotions. But adults accept being unpopular and safe. It beats being admired and dead.

And remember how the left always champions safe sex? What's the key to safe sex? Protection. Extreme vetting is terror control for a careful nation -- an IUD for IEDs. It's a catastrophe condom, one that should always be on our nation's back pocket.

All right, so this is an eternal conflict, Kimberly, that we always deal. The right is always about safety. The left is always bring everybody in -- that mentality will never go away even though they're wrong.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Right and sometimes all those safety measures don't work either. So, here's the deal. So you have to look at it when you think about this, and somebody said this to me today I think, we're trying to make sure that people that want to do us harm don't get into this country, right? So, you lock your door at night.


GUILFOYLE: Yes, not because you don't like the people outside, because you love the people that are inside and you want to keep them safe.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: That's common sense. So it's not meant to be, you know, discriminatory on its faith. It's not a "Muslim ban." It is a travel suspension, but nevertheless, the way that this came across and the way it was put forward, people were not able to wrap their heads around it because it wasn't presented in the right way.

GUTFELD: It was pugnacious. I use this phrase, pugnacious. Eric, we're entering an area where security is now being viewed as mean-spirited. It's like it used to just be common sense.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes, until something bad happens then all of a sudden they were hey, what went wrong? I just realized during your monologue how close we came to not having a Gitmo to put dangerous people in --


BOLLING: Terrorists that we can actually interrogate and find out what's going on. That was one of President Obama's initial promises. I'm going to close Gitmo -- Obamacare and close Gitmo amongst other things. Thank God he didn't get -- he got close --


BOLLING: He had gotten like 30 or so, 20?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Forty-three or something.

BOLLING: Forty-three and out of several hundreds. I'm just happy we have that ability to put dangerous terrorists there still.

GUTFELD: Dana, I guess there's going to be a hearing on the immigration executive order. How do you think it's going to -- it's going to end up at the Supreme Court, don't you think?

PERINO: Well, I don't -- it could end up at the Supreme Court. I think that the federal government has a strong hand to play because I think the laws on its side and I think that when you finally hear the oral argument tonight in front of the 3-judge panel on the circuit court, that that will be very clear. And I think what's really important is to talk about the scope of it, how narrow is it.

And also there is concern that people have about, what does it mean for permanent residence? So, green card holders that will come up and there will be a chance for clarification. And I think the government will prevail. I actually think that they actually even could prevail in the circuit court.

GUTFELD: You know Juan, in your pretty little progressive world there would be no prisons and no borders and no locks. We'd all share everything and dance on unicorn tails.

WILLIAMS: That would be nice.

GUTFELD: It would be nice.

WILLIAMS: You have a unicorn in front of you --

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

WILLIAMS: -- that you can bounce (ph) except you lost its horn as we've often noted (ph).

GUTFELD: I can't tell you where I lost it. But anyway, is there a mid, I mean why is it that -- why is the left so fearful of actual security? Why is security always seen as xenophobic?

WILLIAMS: I don't even grasp what you're saying because it seems to me we live in a country where we have the highest prison population in the world.

GUTFELD: Thank God.

WILLIAMS: OK, but I'm saying that's the reality, right. You make the argument for guns everywhere and we have guns everywhere, right. So, it seems to me -- for all the terrible liberals you talk about, seems to me America is pretty much like a sanctuary, if you will, you know. We protect --

GUTFELD: Yes, a well-armed militia.


GUILFOYLE: And should keep it that way.

WILLIAMS: There we go.


WILLIAMS: We protect ourselves, but I mean, like today, Trump is speaking to a group of sheriffs and he says, oh, the murder rate is high as it's ever been. The highest in 50 -- he's wrong. It's almost the lowest in 50 years.

GUTFELD: But there are sites (ph).

WILLIAMS: This is the kind of rhetoric --


WILLIAMS: This is the kind of rhetoric that feeds, you know, the far right. It's like red meat. Oh, yes, run for your houses, get your guns. (INAUDIBLE) are terrible.

GUTFELD: Rather have red meat then dead meat.

WILLIAMS: But there's no dead meat. If we're talking about the murder rate, the murder rate is actually almost at its lowest. He's got to --

GUILFOYLE: Well maybe nationally but you have to look at other specific areas.

BOLLING: -- in certain cities it's also the highest it's been in 20 years in many cities.

PERINO: That's not what he said.

WILLIAMS: That's not what the man said. You're making excuses.

BOLLING: No, I'm not. I'm simply saying that there are -- look, OK, so he throws a lot of stuff out there all the time and the media picks up on an error he makes in a number. Meanwhile, look at all the other things that are going on that they don't talk about, like look at all these companies that are keeping jobs here.

Look, I know you're going to say it's a right wing talking point but to nitpick the fact that he said 47 years or whatever -- five decades instead of 20 years in certain cities --

WILLIAMS: You are trying to like say, well, he could be right if I find this box and over here on that. Look, he's wrong. And it just happen --

BOLLING: Can I just --

WILLIAMS: -- I think he's --

BOLLING: -- is he wrong about --


BOLLING: -- the murder rate is on the way up, on a rise, which is a problem.

WILLIAMS: -- specific cities but overall -- overall with an increased population, we have one of the lowest murder rates in our history and yet, I mean to me, when you hear this kind of rhetoric, it suggests overreaction and I think it's counterproductive because everybody wants to be safe. I don't think that's true but somehow, oh, there's these liberals over there who say, oh no, bring the criminals in.

GUTFELD: All right. Well, that's what -- the only criminals they won't bring in are the ones from Cuba who killed our cops. That's an interesting story. But we're not talking about that. Let's roll the -- I mean let's listen to an adult. This is Secretary Kelly warning of the risks if you suspend the travel ban. Do we have that tape? I think we do.


JOHN KELLY, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Let's just say for instance a person who is trying get to the United States to do some harm, some terrorist attack. He's coming in during this period that the courts have put a stay on our enforcement. We won't know that until an individual is a bad person until they do something bad.

It's entirely possible that someone that's coming in whether it's during this stay during the court action or previous to this period, they intend to do us harm.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D), MISSISSIPPI: But you don't have any proof at this point.

KELLY: Not until the boom.

THOMPSON: Not until what?

KELLY: Not until the act and blow something up or go into a mall and kill people. So, we won't know until then.


GUTFELD: Isn't that pure adult common sense? Either one of you, Kimberly and --

GUILFOYLE: Obviously it is. This is a man that will know, you know, he has a firsthand experience from all of this. He's very well-regarded in terms of his level of expertise. So when he gets -- he comes forward and offers this testimony, you take it seriously. And he has a nice way of explaining it and laying it out including boom.

Which is, yes, do you want to wait for the boom? Do you want to wait for a terror attack here on U.S. soil? Do we need more of those to like highlight the example, the importance of what we are trying to do here?

BOLLING: You know, and the point being this, do you wait until you look back and say, wow, what did we do wrong? Trump has said let's do this in advance of that. That's why the travel ban came down so fast so that terrorists who wanted to be terrorists -- ISIS who said they're going to infiltrate tour refugee system, didn't push people through the system very quickly before a ban, a temporary travel ban was in place.

Do you know who didn't -- who actually waited for the boom? Europe. Europe waited for the boom. Now it's booming all over Europe and they're going what we do? Now, how do we stop it? The problem is you can't. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. They are already out there. They're already throughout Europe and they're going to continue to hear the boom. We're just trying to hold off on the boom.

GUILFOYLE: -- spreading because of the open borders in Europe --

BOLLING: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: -- with their economic European community.

GUTFELD: Do you know what the curse is, Dana? Is when you prevent the boom, you don't get the credit, right. So it's like let's say you've stopped like -- what we're trying to do is stop the booming. So when there's no booming --

PERINO: It's like when you work in P.R., no one ever gives you credit for the story that didn't make it into the paper.

GUTFELD: Exactly. So their success will always be seen as excess, right. That's a good point. Their success will always be seen as excess.

PERINO: You could say that about President Obama too.

GUTFELD: Really?


GUTFELD: That alleged president.


GUILFOYLE: Juan says yes.


WILLIAMS: Thank you Obama.

GUTFELD: I'm joking.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. And you can say thank you Obama.


BOLLING: He's going to be able to go back to the border.


GUILFOYLE: Will you try it?

BOLLING: I'm kidding.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my god.

BOLLING: Just having fun.

GUTFELD: Yes, just having fun. Dana, would you like to finish your thoughts.

PERINO: I would say this about General Kelly, and I think that the Democrats should take a look at how professional he was today. He also did something I think that the Democrats might find refreshing, which is he said, "I should have done -- if I had to do it over again, I would've done more to brief the Congress on the E.O. I would have done more to make sure that it was all in place before he went forward."

And I think that either the Democrats listening on Capitol Hill today should find some comfort in that and also the people that are doing the oral argument today for the government can refer to that because it is more narrow in scope than originally believed. And then I would also say that for him, it's an example of how you actually need political strong leadership at these agencies and that the Democrats should stop trying to hold up everybody --

GUILFOYLE: That's part of the party (ph).

PERINO: -- the treasury department and others.

GUILFOYLE: You're giving a very honest assessment there. It's really true. There's been such a back push to not let these cabinet people get in. Too bad that General Kelly wasn't in place sooner than later. So when you're trying to because of exigent circumstances and national security, he's trying to put forward this executive order --

PERINO: But he was confirmed -- that is not the best example because he was actually confirmed and they didn't even tell him.

GUILFOYLE: But it was barely --

PERINO: He was out.

GUILFOYLE: -- barely in and that was not sufficient. He should have been in for a period of time to be able to sufficiently explain it, go over it and lay it out so that they didn't have this, because it's actually the reason why that it should be upheld is because it is much more narrow in focus than people and the media are alleging it to be, which is part of the reaction to it is the hysteria about misinformation and he could (INAUDIBLE) that.

WILLIAMS: Yes, hysteria at the airports, Kimberly, where people with green cards couldn't come back in the country because they -- Homeland Security people didn't know.

PERINO: And they admit that they could have done better. In fact you saw a whole process stories over the weekend saying we will do better and that's on the record comment.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm all for that. I appreciate your honesty, Dana.

GUILFOYLE: And they remedied (ph) that very quickly.

WILLIAMS: -- but I'm just saying, that's not a successful rollout. That's not saying, oh, it's General Kelly or the Homeland Security secretary --

PERINO: Well, they're going to have to deal with it tonight in court and then it will be behind them if they can.

GUILFOYLE: Right versus legal standing and the authority of the president to be able to issue such an executive order, which is constitutionally sound. You can object to the process, the rollout, the lack of like flowers and balloons for it but nevertheless, it's all --

WILLIAMS: One last thought on the cabinet secretaries though, when you see a guy like Mnuchin at treasury who somehow doesn't disclose $100 million, alarms don't go off in your head?

GUTFELD: What about the guy who didn't pay his taxes? What's his name? Geithner?

GJUILFOYLE: Well, when you're that rich.

GUTFELD: Remember that guy?

WILLIAMS: Yes, Turbo Tax --


GUTFELD: Yes, all right -- all right. It's always liberals holding things up.


GUTFELD: More to come from Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly ahead. He updated lawmakers on the border wall with Mexico and the administration's threat to withhold funds for sanctuary cities. We got next.


GUILFOYLE: Back now with more on Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly's testimony on Capitol Hill today. The secretary told lawmakers border patrol agents agree with the Trump administration about the need for a wall on the Mexican border.


KELLY: They very definitely said, yes sir, we need a physical barrier backed up by people like us, meaning CBP and local law enforcement with technology where it's appropriate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your timeline do you think that you'll have it secured?

KELLY: Well, I mean, it's hard to say. It depends actually, you know, on funding and all the rest of it but I would like to see that we would be well underway within two years.


GUILFOYLE: He also addressed the administration's threat to cut funding for sanctuary cities.


KELLY: We are giving grants to a police department or a city specifically to help us in the execution of, say, ICE's mission and that is not being done. It would seem to me it makes -- there's no point and then giving grants to the city to execute that, but again, if we're specifically giving grants for cooperation for removal of illegal aliens and given department city is no longer doing that, it seems irresponsible for me to continue giving them money.


GUILFOYLE: OK, so what do you make of this analysis on this? He's been consistent, Eric, saying that he thinks he would like it to be up within two years or at least a significant, you know, portions of it that are the most problematic.

BOLLING: Two years seems very, very optimistic, and I know they keep promising to get it done in two years. I've never seen anything built in two years, especially in 1,900-mile border. I just hope as General Kelly said that it was substantially underway, and I think he means -- you point out the Rio Grande -- literally traffic that goes back and forth in certain parts of the Rio Grande. Get that at least secured.

The money I don't think is going to be an issue, you know, $12 to $15 billion and a $4.5 trillion budget. They'll be able to find that. Some (INAUDIBLE) these important that what's going on though when he mentions that holding back funding to cities, sanctuary cities -- cities choosing to be sanctuary cities -- it strikes me that this is going to go to a court. Some lower court, a liberal lower lower court is going to say this is unconstitutional or wrong and the same thing is going to happen.

It feels like this is the Democrat play right now or the left play right now where they -- since you have a 4-4 tie in the Supreme Court right now, for example, what's going to happen tonight when the 9th Circuit listens this immigration argument. So, they will fight it out if they find that the stay is in order, then Trump could push that to the Supreme Court and then it's going to get stuck in a 4-4 tie and go back to the lower court, which just judged that there is a stay on his immigration ban.

So the left is playing this very smart. They can slow walk this nomination for the 9th Supreme Court justice because they would lose then. So, once you're down to 4-4, you go back to the lower courts and these lower courts are willing to take the liberal side of things.

WILLIAMS: Didn't the Republicans to do this to President Obama?

BOLLING: I think so.


PERINO: And won usually. I actually think it would be a good idea to get the sanctuary city questioned and answered by the courts and there's -- Neil Gorsuch, the nominee for Supreme Court will be confirmed by April, if maybe June at the latest. He's going to be there. By the time a case on sanctuary cities would make its way to the Supreme Court --

GUILFOYLE: He's going to be there.

PERINO: There's going to be somebody there so that there won't be a tie any longer. And I think that it would actually help settle a lot of questions if the court would rule on it. I think that they would rule against sanctuary cities but the question should be put to the court and the answer so that everybody can then figure out the right policy.

GUILFOYLE: Don't you think that's the right thing to do?

PERINO: I do. I've long thought that.

GUILFOYLE: -- budgets and organize in terms of where their finances are going to go. So, I think that needs to be handled expeditiously, Greg.

GUTFELD: I agree completely.

GUILFOYLE: Smart man.

GUTFELD: OK, but the wall can't be the only thing nor will it be because FBI is reporting that terror suspects are coming from Canada, not Mexico. So screw the wall. I want a retractable dome and I think it's actually possible --

GUILFOYLE: Like Lady Gaga.

GUTFELD: I think it's going to have -- and she could jump from it too. She's wonderful, by the way -- but if you're going to steal from somebody, I would steal from Victor Davis Hanson who said in a recent column that "Donald Trump may not be normal but his agenda is."

In the media, we're just not -- we're not used to seeing a normal, essentially centrist agenda. It's so normal that it's radical. The idea of getting rid of sanctuary cities is pure absolute common sense. Sanctuary city is another example of something that sounds good but is deadly.

It's like malaria that sounds like a strippers name, but it will kill you. So, I lost my train of thought after that --

GUILFOYLE: So make it a hunch.

GUTFELD: -- but what I'm saying is that what we're seeing now is a normal agenda but after eight years looks incredibly radical.

GUILFOYE: Yes, and I don't think there's anybody named malaria.

GUTFELD: You haven't been to my part of town.


GUILFOYLE: OK, I'm not going to touch that. Juan --

WILLIAMS: That's a good idea given what his thoughts I think.

GUILFOYLE: So, what he is saying here that actually some of these ideas, they make a lot of sense, they're more centrist but it seems that the left is objecting because of the person proffering these ideas.

WILLIAMS: No, I mean, gosh, you know, so many people on the right have been critical of the sanctuary cities idea and people on this very network have been critical of it. But the idea has won support from police chiefs around the country and they say -- and I know some of you say, oh, it's not true, but the police chiefs say quite explicitly they want people who are illegal immigrants in this country, reporting crime, giving testimony about people who commit crime, because it's a matter of public safety.

And they don't want people running away from police not cooperating with police. That's the argument. That's the heart and soul of it and yet, some of you say that's not common sense. I think that's tremendous common sense.

BOLLING: I don't know if that's accurate, Juan. I mean you've said this several times in the show but I'm --

WILLIAMS: Go talk to the police chiefs.

BOLLING: -- still waiting to hear the police chiefs and say --

WILLIAMS: The police chiefs (INAUDIBLE). It's on the record.

BOLLING: -- community because they might turn over someone from perpetrating crime in the neighborhood. I've yet to hear it.

WILLIAMS: They are. It's not a matter of letting them stay, Eric. They are there. There are 11 million illegal immigrants in our country.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but you don't get supported for offering information in a criminal case, you don't

BOLLING: We're talking about the criminals -- the criminal illegals.

WILLIAMS: Or people who have a criminal record, you're saying.

BOLLING: As well as others, but it's specifically --

WILLIAMS: Right. Everybody wants the criminals out. President Obama were called the "deporter-in-chief --

BOLLING: -- even if they're criminals, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Let me finish here. President Obama, remember, called the "deporter-in-chief" because he was pushing out so many illegal immigrants who had a criminal record.

GUILFOYLE: And not when President Trump is doing it nobody likes it. Thank you Juan for making our point. Well done.

WILLIAM: Oh my gosh.

GUILFOYLE: Stay right there. Next, we're going to bring you up to speed on the fight to repeal Obamacare. Back in a moment.


PERINO: An update now on the Republican effort to repeal and replace Obamacare. There is reportedly concern among some members of the conservative wing of the party that the process is not happening quickly enough. President Trump has indicated the rollout of a new plan could take a while.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: May be it'll take some time into next year but we are certainly going to be in the process -- very complicated. Obamacare is a disaster.

BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR SHOW HOST, FOX NEWS: Well, when are you going to have something ready?

TRUMP: We're going to be putting it in fairly soon. I think that yes, I would like to say by the end of the year, at least the rudiments, but we should have something within the year and the following year.


PERINO: House Speaker Paul Ryan says lawmakers are acting as swiftly as they can.


PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think there's a little confusion here. The legislating is going to be done this year. The question is how long does it take to implement the full replacement of Obamacare? And that's why honestly we've got to get Tom Price over at HHS, Seema Verma confirmed at CMS so they can get to work with replacing this collapsing law.


PERINO: I'm going to make a point for my great point journal as Kimberly pointed out. I just think that President Trump and Speaker Ryan together there as a tag team on that same issue were effective. They sounded super reasonable like we've got this. We know it's very complicated and Eric, one of the big problem is that Obamacare was frontloaded with all of the goodies up front, like all the sugar initially and so now if you're going to make changes, there are risks for that to be painful.

BOLLING: And not only that but the cost -- the longer you wait to replace it, you can repeal, as Speaker Ryan pointed out, replace right away -- repeal right away. It will take a little bit longer to replace. But as you take time, the cost are astronomical.

Remember, it's real cheap up front and then it was back loaded to the, you know, year four, five, six on where the cost to the U.S. government was going to be phenomenal. I think they need to get that one pushed through. I think they need to get tax reform pushed through. Those are two things that Americans -- the Obamacare one, the conservative right wants done right away. The tax reform will ingratiate himself with the entirety of the American population. Do those first. Work on the border wall. Take your time with the border wall; that will get done over time. That -- that's what I would do. I would focus firstly on tax and Obamacare.

PERINO: One of the things we're already seeing, Kimberly, is that, at a lot of these town halls, remember that, when the Tea Party went to the Democratic town halls in 2010 and had -- made their voices known, it made all the Republicans rethink whether they should support at all and, in any way, Obamacare. They ended up not doing so.

Well, now the left is trying to do the same thing to Republicans in their districts. And you're hearing that there's a lot of political pressure from people saying don't change our -- don't -- go ahead and make changes to the law, but don't change my benefits.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, I mean, I think that both are possible. You know, it just depends on how they are able to craft it. I think this is -- it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take some time by their estimates and by, you know, reasonable estimates of experts that say that it could take up to two years.

The idea is to make sure that nobody falls between the gaps. Nobody wants people to go and be in a worse position, to not have insurance or to pay more than they're paying now or to have less availability. The idea is to open it up, to make it more competitive, so that you can actually drive the costs down into a competitive market so that people have better choices at a more affordable rate.

And also to include more people, to make it so that it actually makes sense to get in, opt into a healthcare system, then saying, "Let me take my chances," in case anything terrible happens, and see how it goes.

PERINO: And a callback to the A-block, when you were talking about sometimes you have to be mean, even if it's unpopular. So good policy isn't always popular. Should Republicans worry about that, like looking mean?

GUTFELD: Well, even -- I mean, the left knows that bad policy can be successful. Let's face it.

Imagine digging a hole about the size of this table, a deep, deep hole, and pushing an elephant into it. That's Obamacare. It's a horrible idea.

GUILFOYLE: The elephant is GOP.

GUTFELD: But an elephant can't get out. It's an irreversible problem. That's -- a government program is harder to dismantle than a bomb. I mean, you put the elephant in, you can't get it out. He knew. He knew that it was bad. He even said it was bad, I believe. Didn't he say that there were a lot of mistakes -- there were a lot of problems with Obamacare?

GUILFOYLE: Bill Clinton did.

GUTFELD: But once it's there, you can't -- yes, you can't get it out. It's stuck there.

BOLLING: It was so bad, they mandated it.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes, yes.

BOLLING: That's how bad it was. If it was -- if it had any merit at all, they would let it live on itself.

PERINO: Do you think that sometimes -- Juan...


PERINO: ... polls of people saying THAT they're unhappy with Obamacare, it's not just because -- it's not just because they want it repealed and replaced. It's that they're unhappy that there's not a single-payer program. That President Obama didn't go far enough. Is that the fight they're going to try towage?

WILLIAMS: No. I think -- I think it's -- right now, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm listening to you guys. And I want to think "I shouldn't laugh out loud. You can't be rude to these folks."

You said, "Oh, Obamacare is going away right away. It's so terrible. Get it out of here."

GUILFOYLE: Nobody said that here.

WILLIAMS: This is like the dog that caught the car. What are you going to do now?


WILLIAMS: OH, yes. Everybody said, "Oh, yes, we have ideas."

BOLLING: Just kill the mandate, Juan. That -- then Obamacare goes away on its own.

WILLIAMS: Mandate, oh sure. Then you create chaos in all the insurance markets around the country.

BOLLING: No, no, no.

WILLIAMS: This is a situation where Donald Trump said just last -- just in January, Donald Trump said the minute that Tom Price is HHS secretary, it's out of here. In a couple of days, it's out of here.

Well, now here's February, and you have Republicans privately complaining, "Hey, this is going to be Republican Trumpcare, and we are going to be weighed down by this thing for all time. And we don't have a solution."

BOLLING: If you simply remove the mandate, then costs will start to...



BOLLING: Then you come in with a better option to replace it.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

PERINO: If you want a reading assignment that takes Eric's point and expands on it, there's 14 points that Michael Cannon writes about in National Review today, that could be taken right away while all the rest of the stuff gets worked out. So that's your reading assignment for tonight.

But don't go away. President Trump's daily battle against the media is what CBS reporter Scott Pelley calls "divorced from reality." Find out what that's all about that next.


BOLLING: President Trump is not letting up on the media, calling out the press again today for their grossly biased coverage of the administration. Listen.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I happen to know how dishonest the media is. I happen to know that stories about me that should be good, or bad. You know, I don't mind a bad story if it's true, but I don't like bad stories. Stories that should be a positive story, when they make them totally negative, I understand the total dishonesty of the media better than anybody. And I let people know it. I mean, the media is a very, very dishonest arm.


BOLLING: Well, that dishonest mainstream media keeps proving his point.


SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: President Trump told the U.S. military audience that there have been terrorist attacks that no one knows about, because the media choose not to report them. It has been a busy day for presidential statements divorced from reality.

KATY TUR, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: As we know, since 2000, there have been a couple dozen suspicious deaths of journalists in Russia who came out against the government there. Donald Trump has made no secret about going after journalists and in his distaste for any news that doesn't agree with him here. Do you find that this is a dangerous path he is heading down?


GUILFOYLE: So ridiculous.

BOLLING: Yes, take it, K.G. I'm just shocked that she would do that. I mean, I see the play that she's...

GUILFOYLE: How do you have a job when you say things like that?

BOLLING: She's playing that, you know, the whole Putin thing but, still, you've equated...


BOLLING: ... something bad happening and pointing it towards President Trump.

GUILFOYLE: Saying that journalists are going to be murdered here, KGB- style. Is what she's saying.

GUTFELD: But however, Trump agrees with her, because he said we kill people. Didn't he say the same thing?

GUILFOYLE: That's not what he was saying. You were absent.

GUTFELD: I know, I know. But I'm just making a...

BOLLING: A leap.


GUTFELD: By the way, I will say -- I will say that Trump is...

GUILFOYLE: Way to try to do the high jump.

GUTFELD: ... but it was -- No, that was a good point.

But Trump is correct in terms of what is underreported versus what is over- reported. For example, if you look at stories like climate change, police brutality, gender-neutral bathrooms, those get far more coverage than is merited. They do not deserve the same amount of coverage as radical Islamic terror. Terror isn't high on the list for reporters, because it's -- it's not as exciting to them.

They believe, as CNN stated this morning, that lightning is more harmful than terrorism, because it goes simply by statistical, like, the amount of times lightning hits people, which is an absurd argument, because lightning isn't intent on destroying your culture.

BOLLING: You know what blows me away, Juan? The media, the left media, the mainstream media is making such a huge thing out of President Trump saying it's OK to be at least friendly with Vladimir Putin. It's not a horrible thing to have such a contentious relationship with him.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sold 25 percent of our uranium production to Russia. You want to talk about a close relationship? That was a close relationship with Russia.

GUILFOYLE: Chummies. Chummy, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Look, you're talking about a business deal, and we're -- you -- this man is talking...

BOLLING: What's this...

WILLIAMS: He said, unbelievably, that somehow Vladimir Putin killing people, killing journalists, is equivalent somehow, because the United States, we're not innocents. And the United States and our leadership is engaged in activities? That's offensive. That's profane.

BOLLING: I think he was pointing towards leadership.

WILLIAMS: About leadership? That's what I'm saying.

BOLLING: Well, that's why President Obama did institute the most successful drone program...

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: ... in history.

PERINO: I mean, I -- that's really a stretch. And we all know that, if President Obama had said something like that...

GUTFELD: He did, and we yelled at him. Remember the exceptionalism thing?

PERINO: ... we would have gone crazy. Right. When he said we weren't -- America is not exceptional...

GUTFELD: We went ape crazy over that crap.

PERINO: But I think that Katy Tur crosses a line. If her argument is that America doesn't do this, then why put out -- put forward the suggestion that America is likely to, because that becomes so ridiculous that then it makes you want to support Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Of course, yes.

PERINO: Because the left overreacts.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's true.

WILLIAMS: I tell you what. I don't -- I don't have any sense that Katy Tur was talking about something literal. I think she was saying, "Hey, so he's -- he uses this kind of language. He suggests -- and he certainly is angry at the media." The idea that they put out this list. They put out this... GUILFOYLE:

GUILFOYLE: You don't want to give the president the benefit of the doubt...


GUILFOYLE: ... but you want to give it to her. But I think hers is very inflamed speaking...

WILLIAMS: I give -- I give President Trump benefit of the doubt all the time, Kimberly. But I'm saying to you right now, when he puts out a list or 78 -- says the media is complicit. They have their reasons for not covering. Greg, cable news lives for terror incidents.

GUTFELD: That is not true.

WILLIAMS: That is absolutely true.

GUTFELD: CNN has devoted almost all - years on police brutality. They ginned up -- they ginned up enough hatred toward the cops that the cops couldn't do their job. Meanwhile, they're doing specials on climate change...


GUTFELD: ... based on faulty climate models.

WILLIAMS: Look, let me just say...

GUTFELD: Meanwhile, terror is exploding.

WILLIAMS: Terror, overall day, we cover it. But...

GUILFOYLE: But we don't live for it.

WILLIAMS: ... the exception would be what happened in Quebec City the other day, "Oh, but it wasn't a Muslim who did it." Oh, that doesn't get covered.

BOLLING: That got covered.

WILLIAMS: Didn't get covered very much.

GUTFELD: It got covered. I saw it in the news.

GUILFOYLE: How about here?

WILLIAMS: No. How about what happened down in South Carolina? When black people get -- oh, that's not mass murder. That's not terrorism.

GUTFELD: We covered that.

WILLIAMS: That's my point. We do cover the -- but somehow it didn't make Trump's list. So when Trump puts out the 78...

BOLLING: GUILFOYLE: Covered the Quebec mosque killings.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That's how I know about it, but I'm telling you that there's a very -- in fact, somebody said to me today, "You know what? On Trump's list, no mention of terror attacks in Israel." None.

BOLLING: Are you suggesting, Juan, that other networks covered the Quebec mosque attack at a greater degree than FOX did?


BOLLING: And it was because it was...

WILLIAMS: I'm saying...

BOLLING: It wasn't a Muslim perpetrating the crime?

WILLIAMS: ... all of us -- I'm saying all of us, all of us cover terror...

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: ... to the end of the earth, because it gets ratings. It scares people. All the rest.

GUILFOYLE: OK, listen, but you sound like we're excited about it.

WILLIAMS: It's not the case that...

GUILFOYLE: I want to make a very clear distinction here that that is not the case. We don't live for terror attacks; we have an obligation to report the news.

WILLIAMS: And we do. That's my point.

GUILFOYLE: What's happening in the world.

WILLIAMS: Somehow Trump is saying the media is complicit. They have their reasons, he says, for not...

GUTFELD: I'm telling you, it has to do with context. We live in a -- we live in a world right now where the media doesn't believe terror is high on the priority list. They stated clearly...


GUTFELD: President Obama has said that lightning is more dangerous than terrorism. Alisyn Camerota said it today on CNN, parroted the same thing.

The media believes that certain things like climate change, gender-neutral bathrooms, bullying, the glass ceiling...

PERINO: What you're making...

GUTFELD: ... all of these things are more important than us reporting terror.

PERINO: What you're making is a superior argument to putting out a list of 78 terror attacks that were...


PERINO: ... weren't covered. That was -- that is a much better argument that the White House could have...

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, it's hard...

GUILFOYLE: The mainstream media, every time there's a terrorist attack, then they turn it into a push for gun control.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh.


GUILFOYLE: Does anyone want to talk about the 580 convictions for terror acts in the United States...

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, what's particularly offensive...

GUILFOYLE: ... since 9/11.

WILLIAMS: What's particularly offensive here is you have journalists who go out and actually cover...


WILLIAMS: ... on the ground.

GUTFELD: And they risk their lives. I agree.

WILLIAMS: They risk their lives and somehow President Trump is saying, "Oh, no, they don't want to -- they have their reasons," like somehow the media is the enemy.

BOLLING: All right, we need to go.

Ahead, Vice President Mike Pence made history on Capitol Hill today, casting the deciding vote to finally confirm one of the president's -- President Trump's -- cabinet members, Betsy DeVos. Our thoughts on that one when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: It's never happened before in U.S. history. Today, a vice president made his way to Capitol Hill to cast a tie-breaking vote to get a cabinet nominee confirmed. Mike Pence broke the 50-50 tie in the Senate on the vote to confirm education secretary nominee Betsy DeVos.


MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On this vote, the yeas are 50. The nays are 50. The Senate being equally divided, the vice president votes in the affirmative, and the nomination is confirmed.


WILLIAMS: So Dana, you had two Republicans, two Republican women, Murkowski of Alaska and Collins of Maine, who voted against DeVos. This is the first time we've seen any rupture in the Republican ranks. What do you make of it?

PERINO: Well, I don't think -- and it's really actually not even that big of a deal for those two senators. They had their phones ringing off the hook from their constituents. Like, some people think that those were fake calls; but they know their districts and their state, and they decided not to.

Plus, they also knew that they could vote against, and she would still get confirmed. And so -- because Pence was able to do the tie.

And I think the Democrats believed that this was some wonderful exercise in their ability to show the administration that they're really going to take it to them, and I just see it as a total waste of time. That while they've been trying to deny these nominees who are going to get confirmed, their confirmations, they are wasting valuable time in getting on board to try to figure out how they can be a part of the policy train, which is all the way well down the road.

WILLIAMS: So Eric, what about the idea that she is for schools...?

BOLLING: I think that's great, and I think that's something you might like. I'll just go very quickly. I think it's hilarious. The Democrats are, like, all over here now. "Jeff Sessions, we're going to pull this one."


BOLLING: "Rex Tillerson. Let's go with Betsy DeVos. Now Andy Puzder." And now here's the next one they're going to do it to, and they will fall one at a time...


BOLLING: ... and the cabinet will be filled.

GUILFOYLE: You know, no surprise here, especially with Collins. Obviously, I agree with what Dana said. Collins has very strong ties to the teachers' union and neither the -- the teachers' unions are not fans of President Trump or of Betsy DeVos.

WILLIAMS: You know, Greg, I'm a big fan of school choice.

GUTFELD: You are.

WILLIAMS: But I've got to say that Betsy DeVos has become so polarizing that it's almost like people are focused on her and not on the idea of changing schools for the better.

GUTFELD: You're absolutely right. It's one thing I don't get. Her harshest critics cannot deny their abject failure in educating the young through our public school system. And it's been an absolute disaster. They have no alternatives.

She supports choice, which the left only embraces when it comes to terminating a child but not when it comes to educating one. She's for private schools, charter schools, remedies for...

GUILFOYLE: Vouchers.

GUTFELD: Vouchers, you name it. And all they care about is protecting their butts.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just think that Betsy DeVos, you know, I'm a supporter, but I've got to say she did not have good hearings on Capitol Hill. Grizzlies, if you will recall.

GUILFOYLE: Well, now the...

GUTFELD: Just like a secretary named Betsy.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: All right. "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: OK, Representative Maxine Waters has been calling for Trump's impeachment. Now, I looked up impeachment. The grounds for impeachment are treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors. Not just that you don't like the guy.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: That said, let's listen to what she had to say.


REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: How can a president who is acting in the manner that he's acting and knowing that he's responsible for supplying the bombs that killed innocent children and families in...


WATERS: Yes, in Aleppo. And the fact that he is wrapping his arms around Putin while Putin is continuing to advance into Korea.


BOLLING: Crimea, not Korea. Congratulations to California's 43rd. There's your congresswoman.

GUILFOYLE: You know, that just really upsets me.

GUTFELD: Happens to all of us.

BOLLING: Yes, it does.

GUTFELD: For example...


GUTFELD: Greg's Awesome News."


GUTFELD: So get this. Ten years ago today was my first day on the job at FOX. Do you want to see how bad someone could really be on their job? Look at this.


GUTFELD: Hey, this is "Red Eye," a new show about politics, pop culture, and macrame. It's kind of like "Larry King," but without the dead guy. I'm Greg Gutfeld.

The first thing we're going to talk about -- this is our first show -- porn.


GUTFELD: Nothing has changed. I can't believe I'm still here.

PERINO: I can't believe you didn't get fired.

GUTFELD: Yes. I'd like to thank some people, but instead...

GUILFOYLE: My God. Shouldn't you be fired by now? What's your usual, like how long you've last...

GUTFELD: I've outlasted Men's Health now, ten years.

BOLLING: This is your longest, ten years somewhere?

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, it is.

BOLLING: Congratulations.

GUTFELD: Amazing.

PERINO: Well, we'll take anyone.

GUTFELD: Yes. Speak for yourself.

All right, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: What a gig.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's safe to say former President Obama is enjoying his retirement. New pictures show the former president on vacation in the British Virgin Islands with Richard Branson and trying a new activity, kite boarding. He told Branson he hadn't been surfing in eight years, something he truly loves, so before trying kite boarding, Obama spent two days studying, even practicing flying a kite.



WILLIAMS; Once on the water, a lot of falling, as you see. And even a race between the two, which Obama won. But Branson said after all Obama has done for the world, he couldn't begrudge him a well-deserved win at something.

GUILFOYLE: That was nice.

GUTFELD: His strings are always being pulled.


PERINO: Well, I want to welcome to the world a cute little fellow named Paxon Leo Allen Perino. He was born to my cousin Preston and his lovely wife Nicole last Thursday in Rapid City, South Dakota. They live in Newcastle, Wyoming. And he's a sweet little cowboy, and I just can't wait to meet him.


PERINO: Isn't he cute? That's my cousin Preston.

WILLIAMS: Congratulations.

BOLLING: Congratulations, yes.

GUTFELD: Adorable. Adorable child.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, we've got a new book that's out here in the FOX family by Todd Starnes, our good friend. And it's called "The Deplorables' Guide to Making America Great Again." And Todd reports from the front lines of the culture war in America. It's a great read, and you can check it out at DeplorablesBook dot...

GUTFELD: What's your favorite chapter, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: ... com. Chapter 15. Would you like me to read from it while you stare at me mesmerized?

GUTFELD: Yes, I would.

GUILFOYLE: OK, perfect. Here we go.

GUTFELD: Please start right now.


GUTFELD: All right. Anyway...

PERINO: So after yelling at us that we had no time, they want us to now stretch.

GUTFELD: Your ten years is coming.

BOLLING: It's August.

GUTFELD: August?

BOLLING: I'm be here 10 years in August.

GUTFELD: Yes. We have to have a 10-year party of some kind.

WILLIAMS: What are you going to do for me? I've been here 20 years.

GUTFELD: Twenty years at FOX?

WILLIAMS: Nineteen -- 1997.

GUILFOYLE: We haven't driven you crazy yet?

WILLIAMS: Oh, you're working on it.


WILLIAMS: I must say they're working on it.

GUTFELD: You were here at the start.

WILLIAMS: Just basically.


PERINO: All right.

GUTFELD: Crazy times back then, huh?

All right.

GUILFOYLE: Pull the rip cord.

GUTFELD: Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us.

GUILFOYLE: But not really. "O'Reilly."

GUTFELD: "Special Report" is next. Oh, we're all on "O'Reilly!" We're all on "O'Reilly."

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