President Trump's immigration agenda backlash

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 26, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and a gum wrapper is her yoga mat, Dana Perino, "The Five."

Donald Trump is moving ahead with so many executive orders it is making protesters' heads explode like spoiled melons.

So what's freaking them out? Is it the moratorium which is meant to figure out how to ferret out the fanatics from the friendly? Is it enhanced border security? Is it the removal of criminal aliens? Is it the ending of sanctuary cities? Is it hiring more ICE and border agents or giving more aid to crime victims?

I ask you, how are those impositions on our citizens? They aren't. But, gang crime in sanctuary cities, that's an imposition. Muslim terrorists infiltrating countries among migrants to butcher innocents and end civilization, I call that an imposition. But do those bother the protesters?

They claim to support women and gays, but do they protest when women and gays are killed in Muslim countries? In New York last night, they protested over Muslim rights, but who victimizes Muslims most? Muslim countries. CAIR, the Muslim group, claims Muslims are being targeted here, but doing so, don't they conflate the terrorists with the peaceful Muslims? And now, they target a man, Donald Trump, who identifies the evil by name, rather than targeting the evil itself. The protest mottos are resist and desist. The target is Trump. Not the target: Enforced clothing on women? The death penalty for adultery and homosexuality? Beating women for driving? Female circumcision? Honor killings?

I guess coming out against actual evil takes guts.

I want to go to this. It's a "Hannity" exclusive tonight with none other than Donald Trump. It's a clip of Donald Trump talking about radical Islam. Let's roll that:


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have evil that lurks around the corner without the uniforms. Ours is harder because the people that we're going against, they don't wear uniforms. They are sneaky, dirty rats and they blow people up in a shopping center. And they blow people up in a church. These are bad people. We are fighting sneaky rats right now that are sick and demented, and were going to win.


GUTFELD: OK, Dana, contrast that bluntness of language. I mean, sneaky rats, dirty rats.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Sneaky, dirty rats.

GUTFELD: Compare that to the previous person in that office. You got to admit.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: It's so refreshing. It's very refreshing and it's also like yes, I agree with that. And it can get you on the team and what the team is fighting against. But he used another word that hadn't been used in the last several years, and that was evil. And when you see the world between good and evil, it makes it easier to then defend yourself and to make important decisions.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Barack would have said small animals with little legs.

GUILFOYLE: It could not offend them.

BECKEL: I don't find it all that offensive. I mean, but out of all the order he's given out is not going to do a single thing to help the terrorism but it's all right. I think it was given by a friend today, a conservative magazine wrote that something like 85 terrorist actions in the United States, a vast number of them were from people within the United States.

One was from one of the countries that he listed. And in the end, they've already got very strong -- very strong enforcement before you can get in here. So, it's the least to talk about. It sounds like James Cagney, somebody you won't remember.

GUTFELD: But then, Eric, you can obviously say well, then if it's not that big of a deal, why the uproar? If it's kind of just a singular, basic, you know, he's doing this little -- it's a small deal, why the protesters going crazy?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I don't know why. They're protesting everything, every single executive action he does. They're protesting the following. The motorcade will go from this event to that next event and they follow him.

It's a big deal for us on the right because ISIS has promised to infiltrate the refugee program. They said -- and it takes time. They're going to continue to try and do it. So President Trump, what he wants to do is he wants the entire refugee program at least for 120 days, put a moratorium on it to find out how our vetting procedures are.

And then for 2017, he wants to cut back the program from 120,000 refugees total in half and then he'll deal with people coming from Muslim countries in yet another way. And I found it very interesting today, Theresa May, the British prime minister today used the same terminology that President Trump used.

She wasn't afraid to call Islamic -- radical Islamists terrorist. She went there. President Trump does it and I agree with Dana. It's refreshing that we can finally call them what they are.

BECKEL: Is it 50,000 total?

BOLLING: Fifty-five thousand refugees total.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Isn't it refreshing he actually speaks the way people can understand? He's not been trained to speak out of both sides of his mouth. He is speaking directly to the American people in terms they understand. There is no confusion or obfuscation when you talk about dirty rats and evil.

People understand that like, we got it. We got the message and he said he's going to do something about this. I like it. He's not afraid to use words and Bob, to answer your question, I mean, we had an administration for eight years that was frightened of semantics.

Frightened, cowering with a little blanket in the corner because they didn't want to call it radical Islamic terrorism. That is part of the problem if you can't even identify or name it because you're too worried that people might think something or you might offend jihadists or you might offend ISIS. We want to do far more than offend them so --


BECKEL: You're talking to public enemy number one of CAIR. You really (INAUDIBLE) for me how to --

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I remember that fondly (ph) about it (ph).

GUTFELD: But let's, I mean before -- I want to ask you that -- you know, you protested. Wouldn't you back those protesters if they understood the existential threat, like if they also protested --

BECKEL: Now, listen, this is going to remake the careers of a lot of really retired actors and actresses who have nothing else to do. I mean, it's a good industry to be in. I mean I went up to the Apple store, which (INAUDIBLE) moved, and I ran across all these cops and protesters doing something. I couldn't figure out what it was because I was trying to (INAUDIBLE) so that was obvious. I don't think it's doing as much good frankly.


GUILFOYLE: It's in the same spot, Bob.

BOLLING: And by the way, so you're on board with Trump's -- on board Trump on this initiative?


BOLLING: Wait a minute -- wait a minute.

BECKEL: Listen, you can't keep coming out with these. He came out with --

BOLLING: I thought it was --

BECKEL: No, no, no --

GUILFOYLE: No, you just did. You said the public enemy number one of CAIR.


GUTFELD: I mean, what is with CAIR? I think -- Kim, can I jump ahead to that thought?

GUILFOYLE: That's Bolling's friend (ph) too.

GUTFELD: This is Paris press conference. They can't even spell the word CAIR right.

BOLLING: That was super.

GUTFELD: By the way, that's a joke. Let's roll that.


NIHAD AWAD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: Make no mistake, whatever language is used in President Trump's executive orders on refugees, immigration, and visa programs, Muslims, we believe are the sole targets of these orders. These orders are disturbing confirmation of Islamophobic and un-American policy proposals made during the presidential election campaign.


GUTFELD: Eric, you know what bugs me about this?

BOLLING: Everything?

GUTFELD: They call this -- yes, everything. They call these proposals Islamophobic. So if you target, Islamic radicalism, they say you are hurting all Muslims. So they are conflating terrorist with the average Muslim.

BOLLING: Yes, and constitutionally you really can't go after Muslims. You can go after countries of origin. It just so happen to be predominately Muslim countries. That's what you have to do. But again, CAIR, we're waiting.

You know, the moderate Muslims that are against all this need to be a lot more vocal and just defending Islamophobia or calling out Islamophobia. It shouldn't be the only thing that CAIR should be doing. They should be encouraging moderate Muslims to turn over information on plots, on terror, on cells.

BECKEL: Amazing that CAIR only has press conferences when they want to attack us on something like this and when there's a terrorist attack, they don't say anything.

GUILFOYLE: No, I know but what are they? They're completely interested (ph) but not helping in any regard.

GUTFELD: Well, I have another great sound on tape of Donald Trump. I think this was with David Muir. You're aware -- you know who he is. He has really nice hair but --

PERINO: It's a hair contest last night.

GUTFELD: Yes. Let's watch.


DAVID MUIR, WORLD NEWS TONIGHT HOST, ABC NEWS: Are you all concerned it's going to cause more anger among Muslims around the world?

TRUMP: Anger? There's plenty of anger right now. How can you have more? The world is a mess. The world is as angry as it gets. Why you think this is going to cause a little more anger? The world is an angry place. All of this has happened. We went into Iraq. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq. We shouldn't have gotten out the way we got out. The world is a total mess. The world is a mess, David.


GUTFELD: Dana, he sounds like Joe Pesci from "Goodfellas." Every time I hear that --

GUILFOYLE: The world is a mess but your hair is amazing.

GUTFELD: Yes. What do you think?

PERINO: Did you want to go ahead?


PERINO: No, OK. I think that the rhetoric on this gets heated because of some that Eric was talking about, which is it's assumed that the United States government now is going to be targeting people based on their religion rather than on their region. And I agree though that there are problems and there are holes with for example the Visa Waiver Program -- is a really good program.

It makes it very easy to travel from the U.K. to the United States, meaning that your visa requirements are waived because we know where you're coming from.

But what we also know is that that's the pipeline for terrorism is be coming through there.

BOLLING: Because they don't leave. They jump their visas.

PERINO: Right. And a lot of them had traveled to Syria. And I think that the importance also of the word moratorium is good because if something happens on United States soil, he's going to be responsible. He will be held responsible. And I think 120 days for them to get themselves comfortable with the program that is in place for vetting is reasonable so we can be vigilant and compassionate of the same time.

GUTFELD: That make sense Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean look, I think that he is really speaking on message and talking about what he believes the world is like today, and I think there's a lot of good facts to support his theory. And his theories are backed up when you see that Syria is essentially a failed state.

We've seen an administration that has bent over backwards as it relates to Iran, that has not put America first in terms of our foreign policy and our diplomacy, otherwise, we would not be in this position. The failed redline in Syria. Relations with Israel not good. Relations with Russia not good. And so in this power vacuum you've seen terror move in. He's going to correct the course and it sounds like, right away.


GUILFOYLE: Well, it's true.

BECKEL: From his mouth to --

GUILFOYLE: Well look what he's doing. Look at his executive orders.

BECKEL: You know, the one thing I think they will complain about the press and Bannon came out today and said that the press were the enemy -- and to shut up. But you know where Trump got great press and front page of every newspaper?


BECKEL: Russia. Really, he did it. Every major newspaper had a positive story about Trump on the front page.

PERINO: How did you see all those?

BECKEL: Because they had it -- they ran it in "The Huffington Post"

BOLLING: Must be true.


BECKEL: Unlike the Trump White House, they actually had real pictures.

GUTFELD: Are we done here.


GUTFELD: We got more Trump to come, believe me. More on the backlash against President Trump's immigration agenda. Ahead, there will no longer be a meeting with the president of Mexico next week. I wonder if you can guess why. It rhymes with fall. Back in a moment.


BOLLING: Breaking this morning, Mexican president Enrique Pea Nieto came out swinging against Mr. Trump's executive order backing out of a meeting with President Trump planned for next week.


ENRIQUE PEA NIETO, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): I am saddened and I am against the decision by the United States to continue with the construction of a wall that for years, far from joining us, has divided us. Mexico does not believe in walls. I've said time and time again Mexico will not pay for any wall.


BOLLING: You cancel a meeting with the new president? (INAUDIBLE). Mr. Trump followed up this afternoon with this.


TRUMP: The president of Mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week. Unless Mexico is going to treat the United States fairly with respect, such a meeting would be fruitless and I want to go a different route.


BOLLING: Note to Mexico, do you really want to tick off your biggest customer for your oil, for your food and for your travel industries? In fact, 80 percent of your exports, Mexico, cross that border into the U.S. - - your biggest customer -- $270 billion worth per year. Now, Mr. Pea Nieto, are you sure you don't want to pay for the wall?

Bob, so Sean Spicer this afternoon floated the idea of the 20 percent border tax. We buy $270 billion worth of Mexican goods per year -- 20 percent, that's $54 billion per year versus a $10 billion border wall. Which one makes more sense here?

BECKEL: Well, it's more than $10 billion, but it's -- Karl Rove just said exactly the right thing which is when you have these kinds of tariffs, you're going to get (INAUDIBLE) price of goods. And so if it ends up being -- the American people have to pay that and they should have to pay that.

Congress said in amazing turnaround, the fiscal conservatives of last year said were going to appropriate $12 to $15 billion in new money not old money, new money, to get this wall started and it's just not going to go anywhere.

BOLLING: Kimberly, the theory being you threaten the border tax and they realize -- Mexicans realize that it's far cheaper to work with the new president on paying for the wall.

GUILFOYLE: All right, well, (INAUDIBLE) this was not a mystery. It was not a secret. He's been saying it. It's been chanted at rallies and campaign events across the country. He's never once wavered on it so they knew this was going to happen. And so now you're canceling it because wait, we're still talking about the wall. Well, of course he's talking about it.

It was one of the things he specified he was going to do to improve our security, was firm up the borders. So, you know look, I think it's just going to be a little bit of bit of this back-and-forth but nevertheless, you know, the president has an obligation and a message where he said is going to protect this country and keep us safe, and this is one of the principal tenets of it so, we got to get it done.

BOLLING: Dana, the optics of the Mexican president canceling the meeting.

PERINO: Well, I do think based on just things I heard and that the Mexicans had what they thought was an understanding with the new administration that the president, President Trump would not reference who would pay for the wall.

That they would come for the meeting like the wall would be discussed or he could talk about the wall but that they had been given some sort of assurances that they wouldn't talk about Mexico paying for it and then the Mexican government officials who are here yesterday felt like they had been denied that truth -- trying to be delicate here.

And so he is super unpopular back in Mexico. He has a 12 percent approval rating, not because of the wall but because of a lot of things. Because economic reforms that they've put forward have not taken place, because there've been some scandals involving his wife, that they didn't take that seriously. There are lots of things happening in Mexico including a deteriorating security situation.

So, I think that this is actually a popular decision for him over there. So, we don't have an ambassador yet to Mexico. I do think that it's -- they're a good neighbor in terms of the cooperation that we get, especially on security and so I'm hoping that cooler heads prevail and that they can have a meeting --

BECKEL: You're story is perfect. You'll be perfect for that job.

BOLLING: Let me -- can I do this with you Greg?


BOLLING: I hate these words (ph). I hate this 20 percent.

GUTFELD: Me too, I agree.

PERINO: But they already said it's not happening in an hour.

BOLLING: Well, they -- they backed it off to maybe a 5 percent.

PERINO: No, no, it was just something that we're talking about as a popular option.

BOLLING: Good. Good, because the numbers are insanely high --

GUTFELD: And what you are doing is your passing the cost of the border wall to the poor if you're buying cheaper fruits from Mexico or Corona beer. That will hurt college students on spring break. If you're Corona, your (INAUDIBLE) goes up. But this is what --

PERINO: Think about it now.

GUTFELD: Like if you live in the suburbs, which I did most of my life, this is what neighbors always fight over. The fence, the wall. In two occasions --

GUILFOYLE: So true, and who's going to pay for it?

GUTFELD: Yes, in two occasions on my mom's house, I remember the neighbors wanting to put up a fence, and you had to figure out who's going to pay for it without damaging that relationship with somebody you see every day. And so what do you end up doing, you split it. You only split it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, for once they don't pay so they owe it on --

GUTFELD: It's a split --


GUTFELD: You share the cost in effect.

GUILFOYLE: It has happened to me before --

GUTFELD: You share the cost in effect.

GUILFOYLE: You don't split it up and then like, come on.

BECKEL: Will somebody give me an answer to this, the president said that they jointly agreed they weren't going to have a meeting but wasn't it the president of Mexico who said they weren't going to have a meeting?

BOLLING: I don't know. I think it's highly disrespectful for Mexico to back out of a meeting.

BECKEL: -- the president said that they got together --

BOLLING: I'm not asking --


BOLLING: -- in the script. I toned it down because I thought you won't see it but you're mad about it but I think Nieto -- Pea Nieto owes the American people and president Trump on apology.

PERINO: For what?

BECKEL: For what?

BOLLING: Because he backed out of a meeting which you have a dispute, go handle it, talk about it. Come out of the press conference and say we didn't come to an agreement on things, here's what we should do but to back out I think was a big mistake.

BECKEL: If you had an agreement and then talk about this (INAUDIBLE) and Trump knows he's walking on --

GUILFOYLE: He's getting hit in the polls and they're trying to, you know, maintain some level of --

PERINO: Well, he has constituents and citizens as well.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, as well to respond to.


BOLLING: We send them somewhere between $150 and $200 million a year in just straight foreign aid and this kind of thing is not good. Look, it's my opinion.

GUTFELD: Just because it's Mexican doesn't mean you can't go Dutch.

BOLLING: Very nice.


BOLLING: You split it. All right, President Trump rallied Republican lawmakers at a GOP retreat in Philly today. We'll show you that next.


GUILFOYLE: This afternoon, President Trump rallied his fellow Republicans at a GOP retreat in Philadelphia. He told lawmakers this the dawn of a new era of American independence and laid out their joint agenda.


TRUMP: Our legislative work starts with repealing and replacing Obamacare and saving families from the catastrophic rise in premiums and debilitating loss of choice and just about everything else.

We will also pursue financial reform that will help striving Americans get the credit they need to realize their dreams. But to be a rich country, we must also be a safe country. That is why we will continue to stand with the incredible men and women of law enforcement.


GUILFOYLE: OK, another central theme that was very popular during his campaign across the country, make America safe again, focus on law enforcement, military rebuilding communities. Greg, what did you think about this?

GUTFELD: You know, he's an interesting -- he's not a normal president by any means. I finally realized that actually to him, he's treating it like any other job, meaning he wakes up and he puts on the uniform, the suit and tie. He shows up. He seems kind of agitated and irritated when he's not working. I don't think presidents are supposed to work this hard. I haven't seen somebody do so much. And then what it does --

GUILFOYLE: Isn't that refreshing?

GUTFELD: -- what it does to the media. He's like a giant fire hose spraying out news and we are like the dogs, just lapping it up because we can't stop. I think we are eating all the Halloween candy at once. We could get really sick.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that wouldn't be the first time that's happened to you. OK, Dana, so what do you think about the messaging, and by the way, is it a problem if he is? He's working hard. I mean Reince Priebus was on with Hannity saying I thought I worked hard and like outpaced everybody. He is outpacing the rest of us.

PERINO: They have a lot to do and a lot to promise. He also announced today that next Thursday he will announce to all of us who his Supreme Court --


PERINO: -- choice is, which I think is a week for those guys to be hanging out there to get beat up. So that's going to be a huge -- that's going to be a huge fight. One of the things that you see happening is that because Trump says things that then causes the media then to ask all the other Republicans, do you agree with that? What do you think of that?

There is an assumption on the press's part that the Republicans aren't able to spend any time working on policy because they're chasing all of these other rabbits and actually I don't think that that's true. According to people that were there today, before the president arrived, they have made significant progress on talks about Obamacare repeal and replace, tax reform as well as some regulatory cuts in an upcoming budget.

So, the Democrats also basically let it be known today that they've made a decision that they're posture is going to be 100 percent work against Donald Trump at all costs, doesn't matter. I don't think that a sustainable but that is a posture that they have. In the meantime, they're wasting valuable time where they could weigh in on the policy because the policy train is not stalled back at the station. It is already headed down the tracks.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's down field (ph). So Eric, what did you think of the comments today?

BOLLING: I think he's just summarizing where he's been so far and it's been busy week.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, really busy.

BOLLING: It's been four -- technically day four -- his fourth day of working and he's got a dizzying array of initiatives as you point out. From Obamacare to law enforcement to SCOTUS next week.

One I'm really, really interested in, and I'm hoping it doesn't get put on the back burner with all these other initiatives, is the tax reform. I think a lot of -- you know, we saw the Dow hit 20,000 yesterday. We saw -- there's a lot of optimism. Companies are saying they're keeping jobs here in America because of that lower corporate tax rate. And I think a lot of positives are coming from it.

I hope he gets to that sooner rather than later.

My concern is, with all of the other ones, especially the -- you know, this Obamacare repeal and replace issue, is going to occupy a lot of brainpower. I hope he can get to that tax thing soon, rather than later.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bob, you have something positive?

BECKEL: Something positive?


BECKEL: Always. I think his hair cut is terrific. Whatever -- whoever did that, they should have done it during the campaign.

The policy train has moved down the tracks. The problem is, it's got no engine. It's got no caboose, and it's got nothing in it that's worth a damn, frankly. I mean, there's nothing that Trump...

GUILFOYLE: So how did it move?

BECKEL: How did it move?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. How did it move?

BECKEL: A lot of hot air. That's how it moved.


BECKEL: You know...

GUILFOYLE: Maybe the environmentalists like it.

BECKEL: When Trump says -- says all these things, repeal and replace, they don't have a clue what they're going to replace it.

PERINO: That's not true.

BECKEL: No, they don't. They have seven different proposals, the Republicans. And Trump doesn't have an idea what he's going to replace it with.

BOLLING: Well, they'll get to -- look, they can just put something up there, but they said they want to work with Democrats to put something that -- that's acceptable to both sides. And by the way...


BOLLING: By the way, Trump said he doesn't want to leave anyone uninsured, which is not necessarily what another Republican president may have said.

GUTFELD: You could have -- you could have...

BECKEL: I do like that, but I think it's a pipe dream. But I think it's great. I wish it will work.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he says they have no idea, but they have seven proposals.

BOLLING: So in the A-block and in the C-block, you like something Trump has said. We're working you. We'll get you there. We'll get you.

GUILFOYLE: All right. This train is moving down the track. OK. The March for Life Rally is being held in Washington tomorrow. Pro-life activists will be getting a lot of support from the White House this year, and we've got a preview next.



DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're going to have a large crowd on Friday too, which is mostly pro-life people. You're going to have a lot of people coming on Friday. The press doesn't cover them.


PERINO: The president was referring to the annual March for Life in Washington tomorrow. Vice President Mike Pence will be there, the highest- ranking U.S. official to ever address the gathering in person. Also speaking, Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO DONALD TRUMP: I will be attending. We will have representation from the administration. This is a pro-life president. Their voices are heard. They come out every year, and this year -- this year they're coming to celebrate the election of a pro-life president and all -- and all that that means for the sanctity of life.


PERINO: This is a pretty big deal, Kimberly. Because in his inaugural address, President Trump talked about the forgotten man. And when it comes to this march, at least for the last eight years, it has been the forgotten march. But as of tomorrow, you have the highest-ranking elected official to ever address the march in Mike Pence, the vice president.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, which I think is a really powerful moment. I think people -- it's going to be very well-received. And also, when you think about it in terms of his constituency and the people that helped put him over the top, the evangelicals, the people that are pro-life, this is a very powerful opportunity to take the dialogue and focus it in a very positive direction, because we've heard so much with, you know, Planned Parenthood and, you know, pro-choice and now also with the Supreme Court justice pick coming up. And we're going to hear that pretty soon from the president. It's all kind of coming together very well.

PERINO: Well, the Democrats on the left are already coming forward with the Republicans' war on women; here it comes. Greg, you've seen it before.

But here's a poll that was just done by the Marist Knights of Columbus. They do this poll every year. This is -- again, this is women that they've polled on abortion, some abortion restrictions. This is not all abortion restrictions. But some limits supportive of that, 77 percent, which is the Republican platform. So there's actually probably more agreement than the left is willing to admit.

GUTFELD: Yes, but it's -- it's an issue the left doesn't like. This is -- this is actually a true, bona fide protest, because they are protesting for people who can't, the unborn. They can't hold picket signs.

Last Saturday, you saw a women's march for themselves. They they weren't even marching for women in Saudi Arabia or in Pakistan. They were marching for themselves in the west, because they were upset about an election.

This march is for the unborn, who cannot march. They cannot break windows at Starbucks or at banks. The sad thing is -- and no matter what Planned Parenthood says, abortion is never going to go away. So the only way to fight this moral evil is through expression and through protest, which is true awareness.

Pro-choicers should not be fearful of this expression, unless somehow inside it is calling out a sense of moral truth that they seem to know they are denying, and that might be the issue.

BECKEL: That was really stunningly good. Did you write that last night?

GUTFELD: No, I wrote it today.

PERINO: No, he just believes it.

BECKEL: Good. He does. It was great.

GUILFOYLE: Consistent.

PERINO: But what do you think that the reaction will be from the left, Bob?

BECKEL: Well, I'll tell you already. First of all, you said about a scorched-earth policy with the Democrats. They made that decision. That's right. I think it's a bad idea, frankly, but it's going to start two places. Supreme Court is going to be very important, and the Republicans have the problem there, because there are Republicans insisting that whoever the nominee is say that they are pro-life, which is not going to happen.

PERINO: But they all have already said that.

BECKEL: Well, but in one way or another, we're talking about Roe vs. Wade. It's very tough to do.

But the other thing is, the first person they've got their sights on is this new nominee for secretary of education, Devos.

PERINO: Yes, Betsy Devos.

BECKEL: And she is going to get beaten, I predict that easily. Because I think Republicans...

PERINO: You mean that you think she won't get confirmed?

BECKEL: She won't get 50 votes.

GUILFOYLE: She'll be defeated.

BECKEL: She won't get 50 votes, which is what it would take to get her confirmed. Because they're going to lose two or three Republican women on that, because she really is. I mean, she not only...

PERINO: I don't know. I might bet you dinner on that.

BECKEL: She has enough money -- she spreads enough money around but not in the right places.

PERINO: Let's get Eric.

BOLLING: We took a left turn.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, this is -- it's like -- OK.

BOLLING: Look...

BECKEL: A couple of...

BOLLING: My simple thought is that Vice President Mike Pence, I didn't know him when he was first tapped by Donald Trump. I've grown to really, really love this guy.

GUILFOYLE: He's so likeable, right?

BOLLING: He's fantastic, one good man. He's an evangelical Christian who never ran from his faith, actually put it front and center during the campaign, and I respect him for that.

GUILFOYLE: Remembered the debate? He was so good when he was on. It was really...

GUTFELD: Well, who was he up against? Remember that guy? Nobody does.

PERINO: Tim Kaine. Oh, that was a terrible debate. Remember that?

GUILFOYLE: Candy Kaine? Yes, that wasn't so good.

PERINO: Well, so we'll see tomorrow.

GUTFELD: Lido-Kaine.

PERINO: Because there was huge coverage of the crowd sizes for the inauguration and for the march of last Saturday. And tomorrow, thankfully also for these marchers, there's good weather for once.


PERINO: It's usually freezing. So...

BECKEL: Do you think that these Supreme Court justices will say that they're pro-life?

PERINO: No, I'm saying that all of those Supreme Court justices that -- well, I'm sorry. Those that are said to be in the mix, they had already publicly said...

BECKEL: Oh, I see.

PERINO: ... that they were pro-life.

GUILFOYLE: They're on the record.

PERINO: They're not having -- they're on the record, exactly.

BECKEL: I understand.

PERINO: What Kimberly said.

Up next, another clip from Sean Hannity's cable exclusive with President Trump that airs tonight. You're seeing it here first, because we're lucky. The president on the contentious subject of waterboarding, that's ahead.



BECKEL: That's Queen.

Welcome back. Torture was banned as an interrogation technique by President Obama in 2009, but President Trump may be considering lifting the ban to fight Islamic terror. The president addressed the controversial subject of harsh interrogation techniques in a new interview with Sean Hannity, airing tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern.


TRUMP: So waterboarding used to be used, because they said it really wasn't torture. It was the one step slightly below torture. That's why waterboarding...

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: That's why it was legal.

TRUMP: Torture is real torture. OK?

HANNITY: Fingernails.

TRUMP: Waterboarding, I'm sure it's not pleasant, but waterboarding was just short of torture. When, you know, all of a sudden they made it torture.

So here's the story. Look, I spoke with people the other day who are in this world that we're talking about. They said absolutely it works. Absolutely. Now, General Mattis said that he doesn't intend to use it. I'm with him all the way. Do I believe it works? Yes, I do.


BECKEL: All right, the GOP leadership of Congress made their position clear today on torture overall.


REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Torture is illegal. And torture is not legal. So -- and we agree with it not being legal.


BECKEL: Well, there you go. You have the president once again saying one thing and the leaders of the House and the Senate, Republicans, saying another. He's going nowhere with that torture thing. It's not going to go -- it's not going to happen. It's just another thing to talk about, talk to Sean about. That's nice.

GUILFOYLE: That's nice?

BECKEL: Yes. I mean, it's a typical thing. That would be a conversation the two would have.

GUTFELD: But it's good. You know why it's good? It's signaling that this is a new age. He's not saying, "Tomorrow we're going to waterboard." He's saying, "Maybe we'll waterboard." But it's telling the enemy that we're not telling you were going to do anymore. We're not taking things off the table. We're putting things on the table.

My problem is let's say you work in law enforcement; and you have a suspect in custody with information on a dirty bomb. And in your mind, is the threat of you going away for 25 years if you decide to do something to him to get the info. Would you extract the info out of this person, knowing you're going to go to jail for 25 years? I think that's the question. You shouldn't put that on the mind of law enforcement.

BECKEL: Depending on where the dirty bomb was.

The -- Eric, let me ask you a question. On a serious note, is it not a little bit difficult for these House and Senate leaders to have to stand up there and refute the president?

BOLLING: Yes, it is. You're 100 percent right. Because when you have a president who says what he says -- by the way, I agree with President Trump. Torture is illegal, but how you define torture is what -- is what you need to drill down to. And for -- I guess for a while now, and they've always defaulted to the Army Field Manual. Is the Army Field Manual going to be changed or not defining torture? Is waterboarding a torture technique or enhanced interrogation technique?

Is sleep -- extreme sleep deprivation torture or enhanced interrogation technique? Is loud music torture?

Think about what the other end of that is, though. These terrorists that were, quote unquote, sleep depriving or playing live music to or waterboarding. They want to kill Americans. They want to destroy Americans. They want to behead Americans. They're putting people in cages and dropping the cages into water.

GUILFOYLE: And lighting them on fire.

BOLLING: I would call that beyond torture.

Look, the question you have to ask yourself: do you reevaluate the Army Field Manual? Yes or no?

BECKEL: You know, two of those three things, my son does to me, tortures me. He doesn't water board, but the loud music and stuff keeps me awake. Let me ask you a question.

GUILFOYLE: I can relate to that kind of torture, Bob.

BECKEL: Yes. Are we going to make the announcement or not? OK, I won't say anything.

Listen, let me ask you this.

GUILFOYLE: There is no announcement.

BOLLING: What is it?

BECKEL: You have the secretary of defense, and you have the CIA, new director of the CIA, both being caught off guard by this, as well.

GUILFOYLE: What did he say, Bob? He said that he's actually going to defer to them.

BECKEL: Yes, great.

GUILFOYLE: And he's going to listen to Mattis; he's going to listen to Pompeo. But he gave his own personal opinion, which actually, in his statement that he made, is accurate about it. We've used it. It has been successful. Ask Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

So -- and you know what? And the lawmakers, they're entitled to their own personal opinions.

BECKEL: What I'm saying -- what have not made sense, though, they do have a little bit of a message problem in terms of getting the people who are responsible, either for making laws or implementing policy. And should it make sense for them to call them before they make a statement like that?

GUILFOYLE: Wait, shouldn't he talk to them before he makes a statement?

BECKEL: Well, yes, if they're the ones responsible for the policy. Sure.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he's the president of the United States. So he's the one that's going to set the tone and decide what his personal opinion is about it. But he did specifically state that he is going to follow their direction and their advice. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's actually quite clear.

BOLLING: Can I ask Dana a question?


PERINO: Thanks.

BOLLING: To -- to re -- to look at the Army Field Manual, to reevaluate, to change anything in it, I know the Geneva Convention recognizes it. Is it a big deal to do that? I mean, is it something that -- is it impossible to do, though?

PERINO: Nothing is impossible.


PERINO: But it would be really hard. And I think what Mattis and Pompeo would say is that it's not necessary. And I think that you have someone like Senator John McCain, the committee, who would say this is not happening.

But I thought that President Trump explained what we've been trying to say over and over again about the definition of torture and what it is and what was legal and what actually worked. And I thought that that -- I thought he was really good on that, and he says it in a way that is so plain. That -- is it more effective than other things?

The other piece, I think, is -- will be interesting to see, if this administration starts to do, and it has a little bit to do with that memo, which was just a memo of "Maybe we should do this," is do we go back to a policy where we are doing capture and interrogation in order to gather intelligence, rather than just droning in order to deal with the problem that way? And I think that you will probably see that, and it will be better for the war on terror.

BECKEL: Yes. You've got...

GUILFOYLE: And more Americans and military have actually been waterboarded then we've done to anyone else. Because they take SERE training. It is part of their training.

BECKEL: It is.

PERINO: Two guys.

BECKEL: It is? I don't want to be a SEAL.

GUILFOYLE: That's all, yes.

BECKEL: By the way, the Geneva Convention, they've been looking to open that thing up. There are about 15 or 20 disastrous issues that will go with it. That's why they can't do that.

"One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: It is time now for "One More Thing." Eric Bolling, please.

BOLLING: Let's bring the whiteboard back out. Remember this slogan, it's the economy -- Bob, you remember that one, "It's the economy, stupid"? Remember that one?

BECKEL: Yes, I do.

BOLLING: Here's -- look at the -- look at the trade imbalance. This is what we do in the United States. This is my point about us being the biggest customer to the rest of the world and why we have so much to bargain with, with these trade agreements. Rather than doing these group agreements, do bilateral agreements, one on one.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: We buy $2.3 trillion worth of goods annually. Our trade imbalance, we buy more than we ship out by $677 billion annually. Our biggest trading partners: China. They -- we send them $300 billion more than we take in.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: Nine point two million to Canada. Mexico, right here, almost $60 billion.

And this is the point I'm trying to make. You're the biggest customer in the world. You have a bargaining chip in your hand, and you make bilateral agreements. A lot stronger for you, rather than trade group agreements. This is where it's going.

BECKEL: You remind me of my...


GUILFOYLE: Gee, God, he's hanging on by a thread.

GUTFELD: You just added five I.Q. points.

BECKEL: You just -- no, that -- you just added $5 million to the lawsuit.


GUTFELD: It's time for a new thing, I believe.


GUTFELD: Ryan Gosling News.


GUTFELD: A lot of news in the Ryan Gosling world. For example, he's got a new wax figure at Madame Tussauds in Berlin. Take a look. Does that look like him?


GUTFELD: No. It doesn't.

PERINO: Anchor man.

GUTFELD: It looks like a guy who would steal your car.

PERINO: It looks like "Anchorman."

GUTFELD: Not your heart. They don't look at all like -- by the way, I don't understand the fascination with wax figures. Why do people go to these places and get pictures taken? It's not...

GUILFOYLE: You don't think that looks just like him?

GUTFELD: No, not at all.

GUILFOYLE: I think it does.

GUTFELD: It looks like Emilio Estevez.

Look at -- take a look. This is also, I think, British Madam Tussauds. That's -- who do you think that is? Can you see that?


GUTFELD: It's supposed to be Ronald Reagan.


GUTFELD: Looks like me...

BOLLING: It looks a little like you.

GUTFELD: Yes, after four bourbons. And I don't drink bourbon.

GUILFOYLE: All puffy and stuff?

GUTFELD: Yes, puffy. Swollen. Painful.

PERINO: Is that what bourbon does?

GUTFELD: I have no idea.

Kimberly, save me from this mortal coil.

GUILFOYLE: I will do my very, very best. OK, so I'm very excited about this. I have the pleasure this week...

GUTFELD: Oh, congratulations.

GUILFOYLE: ... to be able -- thank you -- to M.C. the 30th anniversary of the Best Friends Foundation. This is an incredible group. And that's Elayne Bennett there, is executive director. She's on the committee.

And it's a group that promotes self-respect through the practice of self- control. Participates with young people for guidance and support to reject bullying, relationship violence, and drug and alcohol abuse.

While I was there, and then you see some of the dancers there. One of them is a young woman who was part of this group, benefitted from it, Rosalyn Harris. Now, you will know her because she works at Busboys and Poets in D.C. And there she is right there. She's the one that received a $450 tip on a $72 bill from a Trump supporter. They were -- in his name. He's a dentist from Texas.

He said, "We may come from different cultures and may disagree on certain issues, but if everyone would share their smile and kindness, like your beautiful smile, our country will come together as one people. Not race, not gender. Just American. God bless." And that is from -- from the dentist -- what is his name? -- Jason White. Isn't that very nice? She was super excited to receive that. And I was -- I was lucky enough to meet her the other night.


PERINO: All right, so you know "FOX & Friends" has that segment, "Cooking with Friends"?

GUTFELD: Yes, it's fantastic.

PERINO: Have you ever done it?

GUTFELD: They've asked me, but...

PERINO: What would you cook?

GUTFELD: ... it's too early.

PERINO: Yes, you can't cook bourbon, I guess.

But Larry Gatlin was on this morning. Here's a look.


LARRY GATLIN, SINGER: It's called King Ranch Enchiladas, but the King Ranch is over a million acres. They're doing fine. So this is a career move for me. We're going to call them Larry Gatlin Enchiladas.

This is a mixture of some stuff and some other stuff.

STEVE DOOCY, CO-HOST, "FOX & FRIENDS": I think you need some chicken here.

GATLIN: There you go. Well, you take care of your knitting, and I'll take care of mine.


PERINO: So Larry Gatlin, a great friend. I forgot to mention yesterday, that "Short Stories" event in D.C., he's going to be part of that show. And he heckles us through the whole thing.



GUTFELD: He's like a Greek chorus, but a country version.

GUILFOYLE: He's very nice. I love him. Great voice.

GUTFELD: A sweetheart. I wish he would grow his beard back.

GUILFOYLE: Those enchiladas look delicious.

GUTFELD: I don't like him without the beard.


BECKEL: Well, you know, there's a place I used to play golf in Texas. It's called the Big Ben's Resort. It's a great place. Beautiful golf course.

Now, under the -- in Texas, you see that? That's the wall that's going to be built right there between the United States and Mexico. The problem is that that wall, under the current configurations, goes right through the Big Ben Resort.

PERINO: Golf course?

BECKEL: Yes. So the last four holes are in Mexico. The first 14 are in the United States. So my question for the administration is, do I need a passport to play the last four holes?

BOLLING: No, no, you go through the big, beautiful wall. The door in the wall.

GUTFELD: It will be like -- it will be a miniature golf course.

BOLLING: Exactly.

GUTFELD: You try to get the ball through the wall.

BOLLING: The hole.

GUILFOYLE: Once he gets on the other side, the door shuts behind him.


All right.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bob.

GUTFELD: Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is up next.

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