This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 4, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello. I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and a thermos is her bomb shelter, Dana Perino -- "The Five."
When they sent people, President Trump sends troops:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I've been speaking with General Mattis, we're going to be doing things militarily until we can have a wall and proper security. We're going to be guarding our border with the military. It's a big step. We really haven't done that before, certainly not very much before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Well, it's a plan, which means to the media it's a crackdown. Yet, any response short of waving the caravan through is drastic. But if you want to prove a need for that wall, send a thousand people to our border as a political stunt. I mean, are we sure Trump didn't plan this? He'll never get a better visual aid for his argument. Thanks, Honduras.
Fact is, all societies frown on line cutting, without a line you have chaos. The exception: dire need. At the E.R., a heart attack trumps a flu, even if the flu got their first. And that's why the caravan backfired. It was political, calculated, designed to challenge the idea of a border. And it hurts everyone who really wants to come here. Just ask anyone who did it legally.
And you wonder why Trump's approval climbs. Yes, there are daily shifts, but the story is the long-term trend, not the absolute level of approval. So why the rise, even as the media pushes collusion, Stormy and chaos? Could it be that America loves the underdog and the media has made Trump into that very thing by relentlessly demonizing him? Controversies become background noise to other things in life. The other thing being job numbers, tax cuts, terror, progress with a looming nuclear threat that is North Korea, and, yes, immigration.
So despite a panicky press, issues seem to matter more to you than the media's mud. And perhaps those obsessing over the latest rumor may actually be helping Trump out. How hilarious. The same network that elected Trump, CNN, may end up reelecting him.
We've said this before, Jesse, every time something happens, immigration wise, it's not about the wall. It's about Trump. They actually canceled the caravan. So, the caravan was coming here. They canceled it. Why? Because of Trump's reaction. Ergo, which I think is the correct word, Ergo Trump is the.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Wall.
GUTFELD: Thanks. There you go.
WATTERS: Can you use the line that you used?
GUTFELD: Caravan became caravant.
WATTERS: Very good. That's what we wanted to hear.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: You should have just stolen that.
WATTERS: I should. But, you know, I'm such an honest broker, Dana.
GUTFELD: You are.
WATTERS: Everybody knows. Look at how corrupt the media is. So, when Obama sends National Guards to the border, he's considered really tough. And then, Trump sends National Guard to the border and he's considered racist. Same thing with Syria. I mean, look, Obama said OK, let's pull out all the troops from Iraq, he was considered very intelligent. And then, President Trump considering pulling out troops from Syria, and he's considered reckless. I think the reason his popularity is going up is because he's defending the country with strength. If you look at what's happening on the border, all he's doing is defending the country. He's defending worker's wages. He's defending our safety. He's defending the territorial integrity of the country. He's defending national security.
The border patrol agents themselves want the wall. Let's give the workers what they want. I thought that's what Democrats wanted, Juan. And, if you're anti-wall and if you're anti-troops on the border, you must be pro- cartel. Because I'll tell you what, all the heroin coming across the southern border from Mexico to the United States, the cartels are sending it. Every time a migrant pays a coyote, the coyote then pays the cartel. The only people making money on the border are the cartels. The only thing that's going to stop the cartels are a wall and troops. How else are you going to fight the cartels? Not with the Peace Corps. Illegal immigration costs this country a hundred million dollars a year. The wall costs 200 billion. The wall cost 20 billion. I'm not very good at math, but to spend 20 to save a 100, that makes sense to me.
GUTFELD: Juan, I think he directed that at you.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes.
GUTFELD: You're from the cartel.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I know. I know.
GUILFOYLE: He confessed.
WILLIAMS: The thing about.
GUTFELD: Check his pockets.
WILLIAMS: The thing about listening to Jesse is you don't know where to start. You just listen and your heart gets.
WATTERS: Start by naming one thing I've said wrong.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh. I don't know how to start. For example, do you know, Jesse, that, in fact, most illegal drugs do not come across our southern border.
WATTERS: Heroin is coming across the southern border.
WILLIAMS: No, Jesse. Jesse, let me just tell you something. More people are killed by prescription drugs used illegally. I think it's something like twice -- two times as many as people killed by heroin. But, in terms of --
WATTERS: And we're fighting that crisis as well --
WILLIAMS: Slow down. You know what? If you can't win -- when I talk, I understand, but otherwise, let me talk. So, you have a situation where if you say this is because we want to stop drugs, it doesn't make sense because guess what? So many of the drugs are not coming across the border. They're coming from legal ports of entry where they are in airplanes or ships that illegal entry, and secretly stationed there, and that's how they they're getting in. Not across this border. Look, this is --
WILLIAMS: OK, fine. You go ask the people at the drug enforcement agency because that's what they say.
GUTFELD: Why are the people that work on the border so grateful to President Trump?
WILLIAMS: Because I think they'll take anything they can get.
WILLIAMS: If this was poor people, you guys would be saying, oh, those poor people, they just want the government to (INAUDIBLE). Why are we spending money for nothing?
WATTERS: Juan, so the border patrol workers are the only government workers you don't support.
WILLIAMS: No, I support everyone, especially support, by the way, our FBI and CIA, who are being always beleaguered and belittled by this president.
GUILFOYLE: Changing subjects.
WILLIAMS: But I just want to finish this point.
WATTERS: Only leaking James Comey.
WILLIAMS: No. But I just think it so important to say that what we have here is a president who is desperate. I think he's so upset by Ann Coulter attacking him for his failure to build a wall or to gain funding for the wall that now he says, you know what? I'm going to send troops. And, Jesse, here's another thing you're wrong on.
WATTERS: What's that?
WILLIAMS: Obama and Bush send troops. But guess what? They sent them, one, in a situation where those young people, the children were coming in big numbers, one. Or two, to add in terms of administrative aid, so that the border patrol agents.
WILLIAMS: He wants to send them there like a -- this is such baloney.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I'm going to shut you both down. I'm going to build a wall right here.
GUILFOYLE: It's going to be big and beautiful and pink. Here's the most - - one of the most ridiculous thing that Juan just said right now, which is, basically, Ann Coulter is like Helen of Troy, and the president got so upset with Ann Coulter being upset that he is now sending all of the troops to the border because he's worried about. Then I guess --
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think Ann Coulter -- he's worried that Ann coulter represents so many of the Trump people.
GUILFOYLE: He's symbolic of it.
WILLIAMS: He's going to build a wall. And guess what? There's no wall.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, guess what? He's going to build a wall.
GUTFELD: Would you stop saying guess what.
GUILFOYLE: And we have to mimic back to Juan, because then he understands what we're saying.
GUILFOYLE: Juan speak. It's Juan speak.
WILLIAMS: I appreciate it.
GUILFOYLE: He's going to build a wall and he's going to enforce the laws that are on the books, and uphold immigration, and make sure that we prevent against illegal entry. What is wrong with that? There's no inducting there. This is about being for justice and for honoring the laws on the books.
WILLIAMS: OK. My response to you is most illegal immigrants overstay their visas. They don't come across any border, including our southern border. And we do enforce the laws.
GUTFELD: All right, Dana.
GUILFOYLE: Well, they shouldn't be doing that either.
GUTFELD: Dana, welcome to the show.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Thank you.
GUTFELD: Good to have you here.
PERINO: Thank you.
GUTFELD: I believe -- when I look at Donald Trump, I always assume he has no ideology because everything seems to change. But, I kind of think that his ideology is based on order, and the idea that cutting in line in any shape or form is seen as somehow wrong.
PERINO: There's a fundamental value of fairness.
PERINO: -- that runs through everybody. In any culture, the children, everybody understands fairness.
PERINO: As you get older, you add things on to that on what you think is fair. One thing to the poll numbers that I wanted to bring up, is that Gallup had one the other day that -- it wasn't specific to President Trump, but it is about this moment in time if you take the last couple of years. It's the first time in many years that young people, now a majority of them, 61 percent believe that they will be better off than their parents. From about 2009, till maybe in the last year, that number was almost below 50 percent, and people started really worrying about the American dream, because every generation had done better. And so, the economy, I think, is part of that. Perhaps, law & order as well, but the fairness issue is one that everybody can understand.
GUTFELD: Yeah, I think that's why the caravan presented such a visual. Like, people laugh about the wall. But then you have this caravan and you go, the only thing that can stop a caravan is a wall.
PERINO: I also think the Hondurans -- the government of Honduras was not happy about the caravan.
GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.
PERINO: The Hondurans have tried to be very helpful to the president. They're cooperative on the DEA issue. They are asking for our support and help. Nikki Haley promised that they would have more of it. And remember, they were one of the only two countries, Honduras and Guatemala, that backed up the president when he wanted to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
WATTERS: To your point about fairness, Dana. I'd like to pose this question to Juan.
WATTERS: So, we have a nice little cafe underneath the building called Fresh, and that's where people lined up and go get their salads. Let's pretend you're lined up for a salad and you see someone just egregiously cut in front of you and start ordering a salad in front of you. Do you think that's fair, Juan?
GUILFOYLE: That's side of the building, not underneath. But, yeah.
WATTERS: OK. So, why is it fair when illegal aliens cross the southern border and cut in line for everybody else who's waiting to become U.S. citizens?
WILLIAMS: Who said it was fair?
WATTERS: You. You don't mind if they come in. You say, oh, they're coming in.
PERINO: He didn't say that.
WILLIAMS: I never said any such thing. That's your character, because you can't deal with the real argument.
WILLIAMS: The real argument is that we have a 47 year -- I think it's 1971 was the last time crossing that southern border was at this low a level. And yet, you have your guy, the guy that you and Greg are trumpeting and celebrating --
GUTFELD: I don't trumpet and celebrate.
GUTFELD: You're better than that, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say, when you guys are saying hosanna to Trump. Let me just tell you something.
WILLIAMS: There is no reality except that he is acting -- he's like the guy standing on the corner. I would send troops to the border, buddy. I'm a tough guy.
WATTERS: Three hundred thousand illegal aliens were caught crossing the border last year. Think about the ones we didn't catch. Seems like a lot.
WILLIAMS: It seems like we've got bigger problems, and President Trump needs to massage his ego.
GUTFELD: Kimberly, wrap it all up.
GUILFOYLE: No, I think the thing is that the president is going to do whatever it takes to honor his promises. It's something that he's actually been quite serious about it, and consistent about it, by enforcing the borders and immigration and the laws on the book. And if he needs to send troops, and he's going to do as well, within his right and his authority to do so.
GUTFELD: Yeah. I don't know how people -- this is the guy who ran on law and order. The three legged stool, national security, border and law enforcement.
GUILFOYLE: Ninety nine members of MS-13 arrested yesterday, too.
GUTFELD: All right. We've got to move on. Ahead, gun-control activists are lashing out at the NRA for yesterday's attack at YouTube, next.
WATTERS: Yesterday, a crazed woman who was angry with YouTube shot up the company's headquarters injuring three before killing herself. She used a handgun, not an AR-15. But gun-control activists like Michael Ian Black are once again blaming the NRA and the weapon which was possessed legally. Black tweeted, quote, another shooting. I'm going to politicize the bleep out of it and so should you. The NRA is a terrorist organization. I mean, what is with this guy, Greg?
GUTFELD: I don't know -- you know, I mean -- I'm no pun. He's been triggered by this issue. But I don't think -- this is the conversation that leads to actual solutions, emotional anger. You want a conversation with result. If you look at something like at The Five, we've been talking about a database. We've been talking about civil tags for people, felons, or people who are unstable, and that's happening. New York is doing a red flag policy on domestic abusers. Libertarians, they don't like me when I talk about this, but this is an actual -- you're targeting the person and not the system. And it actually could have prevented things like this. We know the police had contacted this woman after the parent called and said she might be a threat. And they -- that needle was placed back in the haystack. And I think -- you can have a conversation about actual solutions, but you've got to be rational about it. And that's how they got to these civil tags for domestic abusers. That's when we have a conversation.
WATTERS: And this was a pretty irrational tweet by this actor. He's not even taking into consideration any of the facts. He's saying I don't even care what the facts are. The NRA is at fault. Dana, does it just show you, kind of, the knee-jerk reaction to these shootings and what the truth is?
PERINO: Well, that's a lot of what twitter is completely is that people giving these hot takes. But, I think that the conversation also, in addition to the one Greg was just talking about, if he wants to train his frustration and anger, why not to the system with the police who were informed by the father that she's unstable. She might go after -- she's mad at the business. Now, perhaps, she doesn't fit a profile, right? She's not on this red flag list anywhere. Maybe they don't.
GUTFELD: They've got a man, too.
PERINO: And it's very unusual for a woman to go to a place of business and commit a workplace violence and a shooting like this. But we've seen this is a pattern in -- across the system. This is not just the police there in San Bruno. This is happening repeatedly. So, we do need to have some other way to address this stuff if you really, actually, want to save lives. But if you want to have a debate on twitter, we can do that.
WATTERS: We can. And you will lose. Kimberly, this shooting shattered all the myths that we've heard -- at least all the narratives about, you know, these white male shooters that are crazy and they go in and blast away. I mean, this was a female, Iranian immigrant, a vegan, an animal activist, obviously, a mentally unstable person with a 9 millimeter.
WATTERS: Not a rifle. And goes in and commit this atrocity.
GUILFOYLE: I'm glad you threw in vegan. You know, why don't they actually think about the fact that, you know, it's not about the weapon, it's about the individual, and what we can do also to engage and increase, you know, public safety. So, why don't these people, and the CEO's at Silicon Valley, and everywhere else, actually provide for safe environments for their employees to work and have proper security, et cetera, just like we need proper security at schools, and at movie theaters, and other places, venues, whether it's like the Bataclan in Paris, any place that is a soft target. You know, like, I was in Texas, yesterday. I felt very safe.
GUTFELD: Yeah, there's no soft target.
GUILFOYLE: And, yeah. And when I was in certain rib place or whatever, I was like, you know what, nobody is coming in this place to rob it or shoot it up. I was just like very relaxed and I had some extra ribs. Because it's really true, you see the signs on the walls and I thought to myself, very interesting, certain places you know, and they make it clear nobody is coming in there to mess around because they'll be met with deadly force if they do.
WATTERS: That's right, Juan. And, California, very stringent gun control laws, like, yet, these types of things happens. Sometimes, you know, laws and more rules and regulations, you can't always stop these crazy people.
WILLIAMS: Well, I must have missed the preshow meeting where you guys decided to whistle past the graveyard. But the graveyard is getting crowded with Americans who've been shot because of the easy access to guns. Now, I must tell you, I never heard of this guy, Michael Ian Black. I wouldn't know who he was if he jumped in and said let's have lunch. But I will tell you this, this is what he wrote, he said I assume nothing about the shooter's motives or affiliations. But I assert that easy access to firearms in this country makes the NRA an accessory to what happened. Now, to me, this is the important point, that we have too easy access to guns. So, you've get someone who's crazed, or someone who's disturbed, or someone who's mad at their wife or mad at their husband. And by the way, in the case of Texas, some very famous shootings like at the University of Texas many years ago, shootings happen everywhere and it's because guns are just plentiful. You get a gun.
GUTFELD: We started this off and I actually said that the only way to a practical solution is not beginning with -- like, we have to make a sweeping change with guns because we know that's not going to happen.
GUTFELD: What I talked about is exactly what you're asking for, which you civil tag a risk based on a judge's decision from talking to teachers or officers. That would have stopped it.
WILLIAMS: OK. But the Republicans in the congress or to President Trump. President Trump, initially, seemed like he was interested in this. But have they done anything?
GUTFELD: Well, I mean, I think it is happening. It's happening in New York.
WILLIAMS: Oh, it's happening on local. In other words, when local jurisdictions takes the step that's something. But why can't the federal government -- why can't our government help us?
WATTERS: Well, I think it's a state-by-state issue when it comes to civil tags. But, if I had seen those videos.
WATTERS: -- that she put out on YouTube, I might slap a civil tag based on that alone. That's crazy.
GUTFELD: I feel bad for her parents because, you know, it's just like -- to know that there's something wrong with your kid and you call the police and say -- you know, the parents did the right thing. They saw something. They said something.
GUILFOYLE: Great point.
WATTERS: And I don't even know what the police could have done. They found her in her car, you know.
WATTERS: And she said she slept and, you know, she was running away from her parents. It's a tragedy.
WILLIAMS: It is.
WATTERS: All right, pretty significant development on the Russia investigation involving President Trump, up next.
GUILFOYLE: An update now on the special counsel's Russia probe. Fox News has confirmed, Robert Mueller informed President Trump's legal team last month that the president is not a criminal target in the investigation, but is considered a subject or a witness. Our source said Mueller was at the meeting and the conversation was in the context of a possible interview with Mr. Trump. This doesn't mean the president is completely unclear yet. Here's Trey Gowdy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TREY GOWDY, R-S.C.: When I heard that, I wasn't sure what it meant because you never know where the facts are going to take you. I think if we weren't in a political environment, he probably would not have said that. But, you generally don't tell people that you're not under investigation because you don't know what the next witness is going to say. This is such a weird hybrid of criminality and politics that I think he felt a special obligation to say, look, you're not the target of the investigation. But if the next witness says something different, all that can change.
BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS: So, if you were his attorney, you would not say -- you wouldn't have a sigh of relief.
GOWDY: Heavens no. I will have a sigh of relief when the investigation is over, and even then, maybe not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: How cute is these two together, though. They can't just get enough. You too, Greg.
GUTFELD: When I heard Kilmeade's voice, I am going, God, why does he have to ruin everything, you know? Right now --
GUILFOYLE: You're a hater.
GUTFELD: I know. They're sending Greek counselors to MSNBC because their narrative is dead. So, what's next? He was Hitler. He's mentally unstable. He was a bigot, collusion. Why do they get creative and say Donald Trump is a robot created by artificial intelligence to ruin the human race, because you haven't used that one yet. The weird thing is, in New York, if you're living in New York or D.C., if you're not surviving and living off every Mueller rumor, there has to be something wrong with you, you know. I try to maintain a rational detachment, but that's like being a Dodger's fan in a Yankee's bar. I mean, I feel so out -- I look at this stuff and I just go, so let this thing roll-on. Why do we have to keep like -- I don't know.
GUILFOYLE: Exactly. Dana?
PERINO: So, this leak to whoever it was -- I mean, it was at other sources too. And we had a source that confirmed this meeting. And I think that one of the president's former lawyers is probably -- I'm having a good time talking to reporters.
WATTERS: Which one?
PERINO: Well, there's a few.
PERINO: But, really, I think that this is a distinction without a difference. And what you learn is that if you're not the target, you're a subject. It's actually -- there's nothing different from a month ago to today, to three months ago, to perhaps three months from now. Although, to that point, I do think that -- if you remember last May, when the investigation started under Mueller, there was indication that they wanted to wrap it up in three months, right? So, now, we're almost a year into it. And I do think that at some point, probably in the fairly near future, may be the end of June, this got to be wrapped up because, otherwise, it will look like it's trying to influence the midterm election, and we don't need any more questions about election integrity.
GUILFOYLE: Well, it's true. Because then, also -- it looks like a fishing expedition. They're trying to go through to get something because they are allow the access and trying to fair it through to see if there's anything that they can get, despite the fact that they weren't able to find what they were originally looking for.
WATTERS: I'm going to do my Dana Perino imitation and say there was a great article today by Byron York in the Washington Examiner called all the Trump Russia investigation on the rule of law. And I'll just summarize it quickly for you. I know you're very interested in this. The way they went after Mike Flynn was with the Logan Act, which was started in 1799, it was obscure law that's never, ever been used before on anybody. And it's to say that if you're a private citizen, you can't conduct foreign policy.
So Flynn is incoming national security advisor. He hops on the phone with the Russian ambassador about sanctions. Surveillance picks it up, and Sally Yates, the Obama holdover and Trump hater, comes in and sends Peter Strzok, the Trump FBI hater -- or the Trump-hating FBI agent, to go interview Mike Flynn without a lawyer present.
And then Flynn says what he says, and Comey comes back and says, "I don't even think the guy lied." But Mueller turned the screws to him so hard, and he was going to go bankrupt. He ended up pleading guilty to one count of perjury, and now that plea is under investigation.
You add the dirty dossier to that. And then, as the president is coming into office, Comey then briefs him on it with the other intelligence chiefs under Obama. Literally hours later, it leaks to CNN. I mean, you don't think this looks like a set up from the beginning?
GUTFELD: That -- that's a terrible impression of Dana.
GUILFOYLE: Dana, thank you. Oh, no. Now, now. My goodness. I hope you get a mom text for that.
WATTERS: I already got one from Juan.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. You didn't get a text from me.
WATTERS: About you. Just wait.
WILLIAMS: When you go low, you're trying to be like Dana, Dana will go high. Dana restrains herself.
WATTERS: That is true. I have no restraint.
WILLIAMS: You're attacking her for reading conservative magazines. Is that what's going on here?
WATTERS: No, just citing periodicals.
PERINO: I try to give credit where credit is due, and I read.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Stop it. What an elitist -- what an elitists attitude.
PERINO: I know. I'm very establishment.
GUTFELD: Don't you love it when talking heads read something and then act like it's their idea.
PERINO: I know.
WATTERS: Yes, at least I'm giving someone credit. Byron.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, Byron, don't ever forget what Jesse just did for you.
WILLIAMS: Yes, really.
GUILFOYLE: Ruined your career. R WATTERS: He's, like, "I don't want anything to do with that."
GUILFOYLE: Ruined the career.
WILLIAMS: So I think the truth of this situation was revealed by Ms. Kimberly Guilfoyle moments ago, but the audience may have missed it, because you did it in a kind of mysterious way of when it was asked, who's leaking the information.
WILLIAMS: What did you say?
GUILFOYLE: Begins with a "D," ends with a "D."
WILLIAMS: Yes, I think. And also, let me add to your --
GUILFOYLE: A mystery.
WILLIAMS: -- if we're putting this puzzle together, let me just say who quit about a month ago?
GUILFOYLE: Begins with a "D," ends with a "D."
WILLIAMS: And who has been encouraging the president not to talk to Robert Mueller. But after that information was conveyed to the president, maybe the president thought, "Hey, I'm not the target. If I can talk to Robert Mueller, I can get this thing out of my way." Oh!
And then the man that you suspect is leaking, he quits because he thinks, "This is too much. I can't deal with this president. He's not listening to his legal counsel." And apparently, no other conservative lawyers in Washington think that he'll listen to them. Hmm. A lot going on here.
GUILFOYLE: Days of our Juan. I mean, there we go.
All right. Ahead, is your information safe on Facebook? I don't think so. Dana is going to get to the bottom of it. She is going to explain it all to us next. Stay with us.
PERINO: Facebook has been under intense scrutiny for how it handles users' private data. Up to 87 million people may have had their information compromised by a firm called Cambridge Analytica. The social media giant announced that today, and it also admitted to something else. It's been scanning private chats on this messenger app.
CEO Mark Zuckerberg is scheduled to testify on Capitol Hill next week. I'm going to try to get some answers about all of that when I sit down with Facebook chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg on Friday. That interview will first air on "The Daily Briefing" at 2 p.m.
So Jesse, I turn to you first for interview advice for what you think I should try to ask when I get there on Friday.
WATTERS: Well, first of all, congratulations.
WATTERS: It's a very big interview. And I'm sure it's going to be really good. We're going to watch it.
I would ask her about some of these emails from WikiLeaks that we've uncovered that she was communicating with John Podesta before and after the election. She e-mailed Podesta at one point: "I want HRC to win badly, and I'm still here to help as I can."
At one point Podesta emailed her, "Looking forward to working with you to elect the first female president of the United States." Those would be some questions I would ask. But --
PERINO: Why would you ask that, though, if this -- we know that she worked as a political appointee in the Clinton administration, and she's not been shy about that?
WATTERS: I would say, is it appropriate for a multinational corporation that is supposedly balanced and, you know, respects all Americans' points of view, to be actively working with, kind of secretly, a political campaign without telling the company or the shareholders or the American people about it?
PERINO: Huh. OK, so I read that email differently. But OK, I'll take it under advisement.
WATTERS: You're not going to ask it.
PERINO: I'm not going to ask that.
Kimberly, this comes at a time when Facebook is looking at some possible regulatory measures. Right? They've even said at Facebook "We would be open to regulation." But that's also sort of fraught with peril. I'm not necessarily thinking that the government has all the answers.
GUILFOYLE: No, they don't. But I mean, that's also why Zuckerberg is going to have to go and testify. But what I find is fascinating, ask Sheryl, you know, does she plan on testifying? Because she, in fact, designed the advertising model that is sort of at the crux of this issue. So I'm very curious to see. I think it's such a pivotal interview that you were granted with her, to see what her answers are, because anything, obviously, that she's going to answer to you is going to have to be consistent, in case she is called later on.
GUILFOYLE: So I think it's pretty important.
PERINO: Another issue, Greg, is one about the algorithm and how sites are treated. Facebook says that it's neutral. But there are conservative websites that have been frustrated, especially ones that are not established brands.
PERINO: That are trying really hard to gain a following, say that they have lost followers with the new algorithm. And they're looking for more transparency.
GUTFELD: Well, first off, Dana, this interview with Ms. Sandberg is quite a coup. C-O-O.
WATTERS: Oh, because she's the chief operating officer.
PERINO: I got it. Got it.
GUTFELD: I shall shut up now for the rest of the show.
PERINO: But do you have any dinner -- dinner restaurant recommendations?
GUTFELD: In a pinch, we're talking about good Chinese.
GUILFOYLE: Or hot pot (ph) tonight.
GUTFELD: Obvious consequence to your point, everything, every response these days when you're in trouble is an overreaction. Thanks to social networks and to the cable news, the outrage machine is 24/7. So Facebook will undoubtedly overreact.
So what they'll do is, it will be a cascade of virtue signaling. I know you hate that word. But it will be a cascade of virtue signaling to reduce their bad press and go after conservatives, because they're being portrayed in the press as helping the right and helping Trump get elected. So they're going to have to get the media to think that they're not liberal [SIC] anymore, so they're going to start targeting smaller conservative outfits and perhaps larger ones, as well.
PERINO: But on the other side of that, I guess that old saying that if you're making everybody mad, maybe you're doing something right.
The left isn't happy with Facebook either, and especially this announcement today about 87 million users might have at least had some sort of touch to Cambridge Analytica. And they really think that Trump was helped by Facebook's model in which the Russians were able to influence it.
WILLIAMS: Yes, well, I don't think there's much doubt about. The question is why has Facebook been so reticent in coming forward and telling us what happened, especially in terms of relationships with the Russians.
And you know what's interesting to me is, I didn't -- I'd never come across this word until today, scrape. That they scrape your Facebook site for information on you. And they scrap and get not only, like, your religion and where you work but thinks you like and dislike, your opinions. And this is available, then, to create what they call the psychographic profile intended to influence how you vote.
And I think lots of people don't appreciate how much we are being manipulated in the modern era by that kind of device. I mean, this is new and different, and we've got to think about this as Americans.
In terms of your question, though, I think she's the No. 2 person at Facebook and, typically, people see her as the stand-up person. So Zuckerberg, like, went into a bunker for four days. Now, he's supposed to testify, I think, next week.
WILLIAMS: Right. But the idea that Sheryl Sandberg joined him in the bunker, people are criticizing her in the press for -- I think she put up one post, and it basically just echoed what Zuckerberg had to say. Zuckerberg today is saying, "We don't -- we didn't understand our full responsibility."
Is that the start or is there more to this? What are they actually going to do? Because it could influence their earnings.
PERINO: Well, they made news today with revealing that 87 million, and as I understand it, there is more news to come. So we'll find out. Thanks for the advice.
GUILFOYLE: What about your first question?
PERINO: My first question, I've got to think about it. I've got to work on it all night. I don't know. I'll think about it. There's a big range of issues. Right? There's --
GUTFELD: Does she have a dog? A really good icebreaker, Dana. Ask her if she has a dog.
GUILFOYLE: "Let Me Tell You About Jasper."
GUTFELD: In Silicon Valley, people can bring their dogs to work.
PERINO: OK, so that will definitely be my first question.
GUILFOYLE: And ask her if she's going to take over Facebook. There's a lot of calls for her to do so.
PERINO: I saw that. I saw that. Although that's like asking somebody if they're going to, you know, run against the speaker.
GUILFOYLE: Ask the question anyway.
PERINO: All right. Looking forward to bringing you that Sandberg interview on Friday on "The Daily Briefing."
Coming up, Hillary Clinton takes new swipes at President Trump and guess who? Fox News. Right back.
WILLIAMS: As you know, Hillary Clinton still has a big ax to grind about losing that election. She takes all kinds of swipes at the president and now she's lashing out -- well, it's once more time, if you will, at Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE HILLARY CLINTON: Fox News is always trying to impeach me. So somebody needs to tell them that doesn't apply to a private citizen.
When you've been accused of everything, like I have, and you realize some people believe it, it's really depressing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Kimberly, what do you think about Ms. Clinton saying that we at Fox think she won the presidency?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, it's pretty stupid, right? She's trying to be funny, but obviously, we know she didn't win. We're very aware of it. And so she's basically saying that, you know, we're stupid, that we just are, you know, imbeciles or something and trying to say that she won, therefore impeachment would be warranted. But whatever. Let her have some fun. She got some laughs, actually. So that was probably one of her better jokes, it turns out. Hillary, you go, girl.
WILLIAMS: So Jesse, one of her complaints was the NRA spent more money trying to beat her than anybody else, and she thinks some of that money may have come from the Russians. What do you say?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
WATTERS: I say hogwash, Hillary. She went from the most powerful woman in the entire world, and now she's in a library and someone is filming her on their iPhone the wrong way. I mean, it's just terrible looking.
I don't even know what to say about her anymore. I really don't. We've run out of things to say.
PERINO: Well, that will be -- she'll be -- she'll welcome that.
WATTERS: Hillary won. She beat me. She set me up.
WATTERS: I mean, I can -- it's a joke, Juan. I ate up too much time in the "A" block.
WILLIAMS: So -- so --
GUILFOYLE: Oh, you're aware of that? That was good. OK.
WATTERS: No side glances, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Those are daggers.
WILLIAMS: OK, so Dana, is there -- is there any legitimacy to what she says about the right -- and she sees us as part of the right -- just beating up on her because she it's a convenient target?
PERINO: I think that -- I think if you're sitting where she is.
GUTFELD: Look at that giant hand.
GUTFELD: You are small.
PERINO: I think she has a point, right?
But part of the problem is that Democrats don't have a new punching bag for the right, and they won't for a while until they go through a very painful primary like the Republicans did in 2015, 2016. That will happen. And it's not too far away. OK?
A year from now, we will be talking about who is actually going to be making it through some of these primary contests in the Democratic Party. I mean, this --
GUILFOYLE: Oh, dear.
PERINO: Life comes at you fast. So at that point, she will no longer be the punching bag.
WILLIAMS: So Greg, I oftentimes try to steer you by saying Hillary Clinton is not the president.
WILLIAMS: Why are we constantly beating her up? What do you think?
GUTFELD: Well, she makes Paul Bunyan's axe look like a paper clip.
But you know what? You were right, Juan, and I have an idea. This is an amazing idea. FOX News should give her a Sunday night show. Call it, like, "Hill of Beans" or something clever, "Has Beans." Anyway. And then you have her show an hour on Sunday that she gets to do it. The dividends from the content will just pay off for all the other shows, "Fox & Friends." All through the day, all week. Which is kind of an hour of Hillary content. It pays for itself.
PERINO: That's brilliant.
WATTERS: I like your other idea. The Democrats pay Hillary not to talk.
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. This is -- this is an insidious, crazy but brilliant idea.
GUTFELD: It is. It is.
WILLIAMS: Because guess what? The conservative audience would eat this up.
GUTFELD: It would. She'd get -- I bet it would be the No. 1 show. Well, not on the weekends.
WILLIAMS: What could -- what could The New York Times say if Fox gave her -- yes, I'm telling you.
All right. "One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: On the weekends.
GUTFELD: Take better care of myself. Juan, "One More Thing"?
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Greg.
Today marks 50 years since Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination. There are celebrations being held all around the country, including in Memphis where he was a shot.
I awoke this morning to a text from my son. There were pictures of him paying a sunrise visit to the King Memorial in Washington, D.C. He was with his boss, HUD Secretary Ben Carson. When the memorial opened, FOX asked me to take my sons, both of them, to visit, and I've got to tell you, it was a powerful, incredible generational transfer of history and memory.
I was 13 when King was killed, and it was quite powerful for me to be able to talk to my sons about what King's leadership meant for my life, for them, and for America.
PERINO: Wow. That is very powerful. I like to hear that story.
GUTFELD: You've got smart kids. Hard to believe. Had to work that in there. Dana?
PERINO: OK, so the Pentagon does a lot more than just protect Americans, they had help dreams come true, as well. Sixteen-year-old Cooper Smith got a personal tour of the Pentagon from none other than Secretary Mattis and General Joe Dunford.
Cooper has -- I hope I get this right -- neurofibromatosis. It's type 1. And wishes that he could serve in the military but he cannot, due to his disease. And while he loves and supports all the troops, he says the Army will always be the favorite, because his mom is a veteran, as well.
Cooper believes in civic responsibility. In his free time, he volunteers at Ronald McDonald House and Brenner's Children's Hospital. He is also organizing a book and game drive for his local community. So just wanted to point out that our military does a lot.
WATTERS: How do you say the word "tour"?
WATTERS: Tour. Tour.
PERINO: Really? Is that really? Mom text, please. Do you think that was appropriate?
GUILFOYLE: All of a sudden, Jesse -- what is wrong with you?
WATTERS: It's not T-E-W-E-R. It's T-O-U-R.
GUILFOYLE: Digs at Dana today.
WILLIAMS: I used to think -- I used to think it was just me and Jesse. But now I think he's in love with you, Dana.
GUTFELD: Kimberly. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: All right.
WATTERS: I've never been corrected before in my pronunciation.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh, he won't stop.
WATTERS: I'm done, I'm done.
PERINO: Are you watching?
GUILFOYLE: Somebody help us. He just can't stop.
GUILFOYLE: OK. On a very serious, important note, I've had the great honor and privilege and pleasure to work with an organization and nonprofit called Culture City. And Culture City is an incredible organization. There you see a public service ad that I filmed for them. It encourages acceptance and support for people with sensory needs and unique abilities like autism and PTSD.
And they have partnered with the NBA to make the New York City NBA store the first sensory inclusive retail store in the world. It includes training staff to interact with sensory sensitive customers, having sensory bags available with noise-canceling headphones and fidget tools, as well.
So young NBA fans living with autism were treated to a special NBA shopping spree, experiencing alongside Kyle O'Quinn from the New York Knicks. This is incredible this week. You see all the pictures from it. And it's impacted the lives of so many. I worked with Tiki Barber and his wife, Tracy, and Geraldo and Dr. Julian Manas and his wife, Michelle, that started this. Absolutely fantastic organization.
GUTFELD: All right.
PERINO: Jesse, you want to make fun of Kimberly?
GUTFELD: Jesse, want to get anything in there?
WATTERS: No, everything was pronounced correctly.
GUTFELD: OK. I'm sorry. My podcast is up. Go to FOXNewsPodcast.com. I interviewed this amazing actor named Daniel Roebuck. If you don't know the name, you know who he is. He's been in over, like, 200 TV shows. He will tell you and teach you how to act and be a successful actor. It's a great podcast.
Now it's time for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Greg's We've Got Nothing to Worry about News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: "Greg's We've Got Nothing to Worry about News."
We have nothing to worry about. Here's why. . Especially from Russia. Take a look.
This is their first postal drone making its maiden flight. It's actually trying to mail a letter. All the officials are out there. They're placing the letter onto the drone, and there it's going up. And I think it's going to be a success to find the actual place to mail it.
And it hits a wall. Well, so for now, no worries about those postal drones coming from Russia.
WATTERS: And these guys rigged the election. Sure, they did.
WATTERS: All right, Jesse.
GUILFOYLE: He can't stop.
WATTERS: OK. I don't like squirrels, they terrify me. I've had a few bad experiences. Well, one squirrel hurt itself.
WATTERS: And the squirrel is named Karamel with a "K." And it was in Turkey in the city of Batman, go figure. And they lost his arms in a trap, so they gave it a little animal wheelchair.
WATTERS: And I love this thing because now it can't attack me. Those of the types of squirrels I like, the ones that don't have sharp claws and can't spring at your neck.
GUILFOYLE: The ones with no arms? You're mean.
PERINO: How do you pronounce "caramel"?
GUTFELD: All right.
WILLIAMS: Payback! Payback!
WATTERS: "Care-a-mel," "car-a-mel."
GUTFELD: An episode you must not miss, here comes Chris.
GUILFOYLE: What a lunatic you are, Jesse.
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