President Trump, Seattle mayor spar over police-free 'autonomous zone'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 12, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Jesse Watters, Juan Williams, Greg Gutfeld, and Kennedy. It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is The Five.

President Trump telling Seattle leaders to shut down the police free zone, or he will. The president calling out Democratic politicians after hundreds of protesters took over a section of the city and after police abandon a precinct.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not going to let that Seattle be occupied by anarchists and I'm not calling the protesters --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you talked to the mayor?

TRUMP: No, but I've got to see a performance that I've never seen, I mean, you think he was a weak person in Minneapolis, the woman, I don't know. Has she ever done this before?

If there were toughness, you wouldn't have the kind of devastation that you had in Minneapolis and in Seattle. I mean, let's see what's going on in Seattle, but I will tell you if they don't straighten that situation out, we are going to straighten it out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Those comments coming amid reports of armed guards and possible extortion in the so-called autonomous zone. The protesters making a list of demands including defunding the police, degentrification, and free college. Seattle's mayor is pushing back against criticism and just downplaying the matter entirely. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JENNY DURKAN (D-WA), SEATTLE: Roughly gathering and expressing First Amendment rights, demanding we do better as a society and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. It is patriotism.

We've got four blocks in Seattle that you just saw pictures of that is more like a block party atmosphere, it's not an armed takeover. We have block parties and the like in this part of Seattle all the time, it's known for that.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: How long do you think Seattle in those few blocks looks like this?

DURKAN: I don't know. We could have a summer of love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I got to go to you, Kennedy. You know this part of the world for pretty well. What do you think is going on, get your thoughts, Kennedy?

KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, I grew up in Portland, I lived in Seattle. I love the weirdo atmosphere but this has gone so far beyond that. Because what you're seeing is really a totalitarian takeover of people who want a one-party state, there is no longer a freedom of expression or free exchange of ideas.

And it's interesting because you talk about degentrification, what does that mean? How do you write something like that down if you're passing something through the city council? You know, how does a local government mandate something like degentrification?

And that's the problem with these broad terms, is they ultimately have fascist outcomes and it actually reminds me of Greg's, I believe second book "Not Cool" where --

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes.

MONTGOMERY: -- people are beholden to the mob, and they no longer think for themselves. It's no longer about individual rights, freedom of expression or anything like that. You're really just doing everything to appease a group of people to whom you want to appear cool and that's what Seattle's mayor reminds me of.

PERINO: Greg, you are not necessarily a reader of crystal balls but you did see coming, and "Not Cool" is one of the commentary on the show for a while, and now all of a sudden this theory of what could happen if they actually got their way is now happening in Seattle.

GUTFELD: Well, I might blow my horn now since both of you had led the way. "The Joy of Hate" predicted cancel culture, "Not Cool" predicted this kind of revolutionary change.

You can't make demands when you are succeeding, right" I don't understand that. This is not a divorce. You are leaving the country, so the demands are off the table. OK.

So here, I'm going to be fair. The bad thing about this is they are doing it on other people's property. That's wrong. The good thing is they are experimenting, they are putting their money which they have none where their mouth is.

So, if they actually do OK, maybe they can get some land and leave us alone. And again, I respect them more than the people like John Legend who are pushing for defunding the police from their gated mansions, at least these freaks are going out and giving it a shot.

But the thing that is lost on the left and Kennedy mentions it, places where there is little law and order is not freedom, it's actually the least free you can find if you go Sudan, it's ruled by criminals and warlords because they have no security.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: By the way, just an update, I haven't checked in with human resources about being Fox News' warlord. I'm waiting to see the health -- I'm waiting to see the health benefits, because it's hard when you are pillaging and the 401K package which I'm investing in hemp and tattoo ink.

PERINO: OK. Well, you keep us informed --

GUTFELD: I shall.

PERINO: -- on the warlord negotiations.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Juan, I'm curious about the idea of, some of these things that they come up with like a demand for free college. This is a -- now this is just everybody's demand. Everybody's demand. And you know, somebody like Joe Biden has already said, OK, we'll head in that direction. I don't understand how the whole free college thing works in this scenario. Why would the mayor be able to give that to them?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: I don't think the mayor can give that to them, Dana, I think this is an expression of young people who are frustrated at the high cost of higher education in this country.

But look, this is all, to me, just a political play and it's morally selective outrage by a president who wants to paint these young people as anarchists and terrorists and they are terrible people, and in fact they are young people as the mayor said who are engaged in things like poetry readings, free speech, art, in an art district in Seattle and the mayor said it's lawful. She is supporting it, as you just heard.

But Trump wants to turn them into bad guys, and you know why? Because then he can play dirty harry, he can dominate them. Right? These are a bunch of kids. But he needs something at this moment.

And by the way, I didn't hear the right-wing echo chamber go off in 2016 when you had actual armed men takeover federal property in Oregon and threaten people and interfere with federal workers, no. Then there was like crickets. So, I think there's a lot of hypocrisy here because I think Trump knows he's not doing well in handling these protests.

GUTFELD: But you also play down what was going on too, Juan. Whenever there was like, it's largely a protest, just a few bad apples, so let's -- the hypocrisy can be spread evenly. Right?

WILLIAMS: No. Wait a second. Wait a second, I do think this has been overwhelmingly peaceful --

GUTFELD: See? There you go.

WILLIAMS: -- legitimate protests about outrageous situations.

GUTFELD: that's my point.

PERINO: Jesse, did you know that this idea for an autonomous zone apparently, they are going to try it in Nashville tonight? The governor saying that's not happening, but the mayor, Mr. Cooper, I don't know what he said so far, but he's been out there with protesters but he won't let somebody like John Rich's little kids play in the little league game this weekend. Like everything is a mess. It's no -- it's not just this little six block area, it could actually spread.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, I don't see John Rich tolerating an autonomous zone in Nashville. No, I don't think it's going to go over too well with people in Tennessee.

But can we back up for a second? If Greg is a warlord at Fox --

PERINO: yes.

WATTERS: -- that is the softest coup we've ever witnessed in world history. And also, why is everybody kissing Gutfeld's butt so badly? Like, I'm about to throw up over here. I mean, the guy's ego is as big as Trump's at this point, does he need more stroking? He does not.

And also, to Juan's point, Juan, I've never seen a peaceful protest injure 700 NYPD officers, and cause hundreds of millions of dollars in property damage. OK? So, let's get that straight.

And as someone who does not consider themselves that mature, when Jesse Watters feels more mature than elected mayors and governors of states, we have a real problem on our hands. Like, you wouldn't let your children --

PERINO: We do.

WATTERS: -- like lock themselves in a room in your house and start making demands of their parents, right? No. You'd kick the door down and they would be grounded for the rest of the summer. I mean, this is not sleepless in Seattle, this is spineless in Seattle. This might be, probably the worst thing that come out of Seattle since "Grunge."

PERINO: Very good.

WATTERS: I don't say this lightly.

MONTGOMERY: You take or you walk that back, Jesse Watters or mark on will give you the business end in his arms.

WATTERS: No. Never.

MONTGOMERY: No, no. You do not have the right to lecture the world about Seattle music, particularly "Grunge" or anything in the 90s. But what I will say is this movement --

WATTERS: Sorry.

MONTGOMERY: -- allows the city council and the mayor --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I don't apologize.

MONTGOMERY: -- to conveniently not pay attention to the homeless crisis. Homelessness in a wealthy city like Seattle --

PERINO: Yes.

MONTGOMERY: -- has gotten out of control and now they don't have to address that because they can talk about the summer of love. You know? And I guess homelessness is just camping --

PERINO: Yes.

MONTGOMERY: -- never mind the women and the vulnerable who are sexually assaulted in situations like that, this according to the Seattle chief of police talking about CHAZ.

GUTFELD: CHAZ.

PERINO: I can't imagine that this is going to go on for much longer, but something has got to happen. All right. Coming up, the media being criticized for its coverage of Seattle's free zone, we'll take a look at that right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: The media keeps making excuses for anarchy, watch as they downplay coverage of the chaos in Seattle and attempt to spin the radical takeover of the area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The so-called autonomous zone now complete with barricades, a clinic, and free food.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And almost a street fair like atmosphere with free food, art displays, and outdoor movie nights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these people in the street, there's food being served, there's a medical tent, people are camping out. There's live music at night. They are watching movies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: But the Seattle police chief is painting a much different picture. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARMEN BEST, POLICE CHIEF, SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Our calls for service have more than tripled. These are the responses to the emergency calls of rapes, robberies, and all sorts of violent accident have been occurring in the area they were not able to get to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: All right. Greg, this is an interesting opportunity to look at fake news because during the whole Russia scandal, they could say whatever they wanted about collusion and you couldn't really see it. But now that we are seeing live pictures of not so peaceful protesters, or chaos in Seattle, to watch the media tried to say you're not really looking at this, you're looking at something completely different is a little jarring.

GUTFELD: There's a great example, Brian Stelter playing down the riots and the looting in New York City saying it was the big lie, and his proof was the garbage can that they removed out in front of his building was replaced the next day. So, there were really no big riots or anything because you know it's just a blip.

Forget about the fact that 450 businesses were destroyed. The media needs to marginalize or ignore anything that undermines their profit design which is a, A versus B equals profit, i.e., conflict. So, riots are played down as demonstrations, looting has now got a racist connotation according to an old white male at the L.A. Times which is an example of course of the soft bigotry of low expectations when you assume that looting means black.

I wonder if the media wants a race war, you know, when Chris Cuomo claims that Trump supporters are, you know, are looking at the people begging for change should be put down. When you say put down, what does that mean? I don't think he means insult.

WATTERS: Yes. That's -- that was a little over-the-top. Juan, what do you think about Greg's point, you know, you reference to L.A. Times executive editor, he says looting is racist, the word. What should we call it instead of looting? Should we call it liberating someone else's property?

WILLIAMS: No, it's criminal. Just call it for what it is. But I don't -- I don't know, I didn't understand, I'm not in that conversation. I'm in this conversation.

Jesse, we saw the images of a local reporter in the middle of that Seattle protest. No violence, no chaos, and you said to the viewers, you can see for yourself. Well, what they see for themselves is a peaceful activity.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It happened at night.

WILLIAMS: Look, there's -- OK, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I don't know if that's the only thing you see, Juan.

GUTFELD: It happened at night.

WILLIAMS: All they said look for yourself.

WATTERS: And they keep getting interrupted by people.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I see. I don't know. I don't see anything and I haven't read or even heard of any kind of craziness going on. To my mind, look, the big point here is there is no evidence of antifascist groups being organized in any of these movements, all the arrests all over the country after all these protests two straight weeks, no evidence of any organized political effort except for white supremacist posing as antifa to try to stir up trouble.

GUTFELD: My God.

WILLIAMS: That's about it.

WATTERS: Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think Trump --

WATTERS: Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think what's going on here is Greg is looking for a boogeyman - -

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Juan, you're supposed to be the hardest journalist to take on that. That's not a good look for you, man.

WILLIAMS: -- that doesn't exist. Yes.

GUTFELD: So those men were beating up women?

WILLIAMS: No, let me finish. I think that you (Inaudible) looking for a boogeyman --

GUTFELD: Because African-Americans (Inaudible) and they were white supremacists?

WILLIAMS: Hang on, Greg. Hang on, Greg. Hang on just a second.

GUTFELD: No.

WILLIAMS: Trump is looking for a boogeyman, he thought he had it with that 75-year-old in Buffalo which he tried to paint as some kind of terrorist, then America says what are you talking about?

WATTERS: All right. Juan, we've heard it, Juan.

WILLIAMS: This guy is peaceful and the police ran him over.

WATTERS: Let's move in around.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: We saw beatings.

WILLIAMS: Yes, you heard the truth.

WATTERS: Let's move in around.

GUTFELD: Brutal beatings and they weren't the white supremacist, Juan.

WATTERS: OK. Dana Perino, Juan says that, you know, --

PERINO: Yes?

WATTERS: -- he hasn't read or seen anything that is troubling in this -- in this little autonomous zone. I mean, there's been multiple reports about armed guards shaking down business owners, there's been fires, they won't let police in. I mean, I don't know if I just have a feeling of a tea party took over a little section of Seattle, there would be tanks rolling in.

PERINO: Definite -- yes, it would be, you know, Lester Holt would be there to cover for sure.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: I'm not saying that against NBC but, I mean, that's how big the story would be, like the networks would send their anchors to cover it. They would be on the ground there.

I don't know if you all remember a book a few years ago there was a journalist who took a leave from her job to do a book, she called it nickel -- nickel and dime, and she worked low-wage jobs for a year and then she wrote about the experience.

So perhaps some of these reporters think that it's no big deal and it's just the summer of love, maybe they should just go and live amongst them for a year and get a book contract and tell us how it goes at the end.

The other thing I would say is Seattle is a beautiful place in the summer. It has the most wonderful place to visit. Who in the world would go and buy a ticket to like want to go to Seattle right now? So, it's not just that these blocks, maybe everybody is having a great time with their block party, but I think it's hurting the entire city, hurting the region.

Why -- if you are thinking of expanding your business why would you do it there? Why wouldn't try to go someplace else? So, I think that the implications of this will be a lot greater than we know from just like the summer of love that the mayor is talking about.

WATTERS: Yes, Seattle losses in the long run for sure. You know, you can downplay it all you want, Kennedy, but you just saw the police chief on tape saying call times are delayed, they can't respond to assault or burglary or battery, I don't see a lot of love there.

MONTGOMERY: And how are they protecting certain people in the city who are sort of hoovered up into the autonomous zone? And I think we should be listening to the chief of police in Seattle, because here is an intersectional woman. She happens to be a woman of color. She's a woman --

PERINO: Yes.

MONTGOMERY: -- in a male dominated profession where a lot of her white male counterparts have been videotaped bringing harm and death to primarily black men. And those are the catalyst for a lot of these protests, and the climate hasn't gotten any better.

I think she comes from an interesting place, and I think that maybe we should put a little bit more weight in her words right now. I still don't understand how this resolves itself when you have the left essentially cannibalizing itself.

So, here you have a media that is now being populated by college kids who are bubble wrapped in their own safe zones and now they are adults working as journalists the truth is compromised. And it has become a subjective narrative and it's only going to grow more and more subjective.

So, if you have the black lives matter movement being overtaken by CHAZ, where does the media put more importance as the left cannibalizes itself?

WATTERS: I can't take the word CHAZ seriously.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I love how you say CHAZ.

MONTGOMERY: CHAZ. My God.

GUTFELD: It's a great name.

WATTERS: All right. Up next, Americans pushing back against Democrats radical plan to defund the police. Plus, President Trump's latest reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. The majority of Americans not on board with calls to defund the police. Sixty-four percent saying they opposed the movement in a new poll. President Trump slamming the idea while also backing the idea of police reform. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to see --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you say --

TRUMP: I want to see really compassionate but strong law enforcement, police force, but law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say no to chokeholds?

TRUMP: And I don't want to see mistakes. Yes. I don't like chokeholds. And I think the concept of chokeholds sounds so innocent so perfect and then you realize it if one on one, no, if two on one that's a little bit of a different story. With that being said, it would be, I think a very good thing that generally speaking it should be ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: All right. Jesse, let me begin with you on that point. You saw in the interview with Harris Faulkner the president saying, you know, he thinks that chokeholds can be innocent but he thinks they should be ended. What do you think?

WATTERS: I think he's totally right. I think this president has a very firm grip on reality. You don't obviously want to just come up from behind and slap a rear naked choke on someone until he passes out. But if you are in a scuffle with a guy, if he's bigger and if it's one on one you might just need to gain a little leverage in like a wrestling move scenario until you have backup some.

So, it's obviously a case by case basis, but yes. In general, you don't want to use a chokehold in general. I had four police reform ideas. Ready? Number one, defund the traffic police. They need to stop with the tickets, there's too many people walking around this city handing out parking tickets. Enough. OK?

The second thing is mandatory body cams. They pay for themselves. I don't care how expensive it is. Three, beef up internal affairs, I say triple the internal affairs budget. That way you can smoke out the bad apples. And this immunity thing like, OK.

So, you can sue the police officers but you're not allowed to sue the teachers or the mayor or the guy that's running the subway? No, no, no. If the police can be sued, everyone working for the city can be sued. And you know that's not going to happen.

So instead of that, when you appoint an arbitrator to make sure someone gets a slap with a disciplinary action make it so that the police union can appoint their own guys the arbitrator. Make it an independent person that it will be more fair.

WILLIAMS: Way to go, Mayor Watters. All right. So, Greg, as you saw, the Post say most Americans don't buy into this defund the police stuff, but what they do like is police reform of the type that Jesse was just talking about. Where are you on police reform?

GUTFELD: Well, I like Jesse, I have three solutions. The broader criticism of the police is that it's a monoculture, right? It's a monoculture. It lacks different perspective. So, if you focus on the crisis points, it's police and young black men. The solution isn't police versus young black men, it's police and young black men.

In their neighborhood, black men shouldn't hate the police, they should be the police. And the only way to kind of like undo a monoculture is to introduce unique perspectives. And what a unique perspective young, black men would have in the police force because they would be able to probably communicate better in their own community. Now, New York -- NYPD has done a good job with this. Minneapolis, not so good, but they were trying.

I also like number two, the National Police misconduct database which was introduced, I believe, by Democrats, because it introduced statistics to people who avoid them, the media, activists, and Democrats. What happens if those numbers undermine the narrative? I'm interested in seeing that.

And my final solution which you know, is coming, we need to decriminalize all drugs. Legalize, monetize, and then quantify because so much crime on the street is due to suspects and cops in tussles in resisting arrest because people are high, they're victims of their own substance abuse.

If you can create viable products, legal progress, that are quantified so people can handle the oblivion that they choose -- executives have martinis when they get home. A guy should be able to understand what he is putting into his body so cops don't end up in violent confrontations because they can't control somebody and the person isn't aware of what he's doing. So those are three contracts -- constructive solutions.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. Thank you. Hey, Kennedy, one of the things that's surprising, I think, to lots of people in the polls this week is a tremendous rise in support for the Black Lives Matter Movement. And I wonder if the President is not missing something in terms of a huge cultural shift that's taking place in the country right now and risking that he gets left behind.

KENNEDY, FOX NEWS HOST: There is a shift and there's a much larger conversation happening. And part of that is layers of frustration, because you know, the wants of the protesters has not been met, and we've seen it in incident after incident. So right now, what both sides need and which both sides are lacking is curiosity.

And you have really a strain of fascism going throughout the far left, where they want to shut down any opinion that's contrary to theirs. But also, the President has been good in other aspects of criminal justice reform. And I think when he looks at this issue this larger issue through that lens and has a conversation and does a little bit more internalizing, that would be good.

But also, in terms of defund the police versus police reform, police reform and talking about reforming public-sector unions, that's a great conversation to have. And when you have a series of specifics that people are putting forward like Jesse and Greg, you know, the mayors of Watters and Gutfeld bill, they have their own specifics. If you have that versus something as broad and nebulous as defund the police which could mean anything to any number of people. That is bad, specifics are good. That's where we need to go.

WILLIAMS: All right, so I want to go live in Mayor Dana Ville. Dana, what do you think of this rise in support for Black Lives Matter? And is Trump missing out, Mayor?

PERINO: Well, first of all in Dana Ville, dogs would have a leash-free policy in the parks, which would be something -- no more tickets for dogs being walked off the leash. That would be one thing.

I do think that the President doesn't understand that there's a possibility here like a Nixon goes to China moment. And he has that ability. He is not ideological. He's not a typical politician, right? We keep hearing that. And I feel like sometimes he should trust his instincts to go ahead and listen.

Now, he is a great convener. He has the power to convene and bring people to -- a lot of -- some people have even declined to meet with him, but he is willing to listen. He wants to get things done. And you know, this -- I feel like if they could get a do-over on the last couple of weeks, they might try to do that.

Hopefully, as the week comes to an end, we can all remember the memory of George Floyd. And we can think about moving forward together as Americans United in the ideals of this country that our founding fathers established for us.

WILLIAMS: You're the best, Dana. Straight ahead, Democrats being accused of hypocrisy for condemning Trump rallies after they back the protests. So stay with us to hear that story on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KENNEDY: Democrats in the media who cheered on the nationwide protests over George Floyd now say Trump rallies pose a coronavirus risk. And Joe Biden fumbling around trying to attack President Trump for holding a rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma on June 19th. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's going down to Texas on Juneteenth, right? The first major massacre literally speaking of the black Wall Street right, years ago. He's going to have a rally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: All right, President Trump with some words for Sleepy Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, Joe is not all there. Everybody knows it. And it's sad when you look at it and you see it. You should see it for yourself. He's created his own sanctuary city in the basement of wherever he is and he doesn't come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: All right, so Juan, obviously, Joe Biden is going to continue to have these problems and these gaffs and these conflations because these are two critically important events. And he's sort of jumbling them into one thing. What can you do with your Biden problem?

WILLIAMS: I don't feel like we have a Biden problem.

KENNEDY: Come on, man.

WILLIAMS: I don't think people, if you look at the polls, think that there -- I'll give it. Well, if you want to create a problem, Kennedy, I can try to help you out, but I just don't see a big one here. I think lots of people might get confused about, you know, what happened in terms of Tulsa and the riots in the early 20th century. I don't -- I don't know.

But I do think that when we come to this argument about Trump and his rallies versus the protest in the street and the common thread of coronavirus, there's an important distinction to be made, which is that I think the protests were organic. What Trump is talking about is something that's planned. And you would think that he wouldn't want his people to get sick.

I understand they haven't laid out all the terms yet. Maybe they'll have consent forms and a light for people who come to attend. But we know the president doesn't like social distancing, he doesn't like the masks. This was the problem with the convention in North Carolina. He didn't want social distancing, and the governors there said, there's got to be it, so it's going to be a problem.

I don't -- I don't know how they're going to handle it, but I imagine they're going to try to keep their people safe. That should be the baseline.

KENNEDY: All right, so Jesse, the Democrat Party is obviously the party of science, except for the part when it comes to the Coronavirus and the transmission. Because the Coronavirus now has its own intelligence and it can choose to attack people who go to Republican rallies, and it can choose to abstain from hurting people who go to protests because that's clearly what the science is saying if you listen to the hypocrisy about public gatherings. Is the Coronavirus really that choosey?

WATTERS: Yes. The -- it's a -- it's an invisible enemy and an intelligent enemy, Kennedy. And you know, to Juan's point. Juan, like a three-week protest, that's pretty planned. Like people plan to leave their house and go outside with 20,000 people. I mean, it's maybe organic the first night, but the next three weeks after that, it's pretty planned.

Are we really doing this? Like, are we really going to pretend like we just didn't have like three weeks to the media saying it's OK to get out there in a crowd? Like -- and then literally 24 hours later, it's not OK when Trump does it? Like, what -- you can't get away with that. Like, are we seriously supposed to believe that they're now really concerned about transmission?

No, it's because they know these rallies are blockbusters and it's how Trump and the base gets their juices flowing. And they don't -- they're not going to look very good next to Joe Biden's little tiny sleepy rallies. So they're just trying to kneecap them and pretend it's in the interest of public health. We're not falling for it.

KENNEDY: Well, I think that's what happened, Greg, was a lot of people saw protesters out on mass close to each other. And when you know, you could be attacked with tear gas, what do people do when they interface a tear gas? They cough, they cough all over each other.

You know, talk about super spreaders, that was the perfect storm. So now what do you have? What do you have going forward? Because was the lockdown similar a political tool to harm the economy so the President's not reelected. And if there is no lockdown, if the protest show we can all interact and hire people and spend money, isn't that good news for the president? So don't you have to shut that down?

GUTFELD: The -- I mean, the -- I think that the irony of it is when -- I can't remember when the first day of the protests. It might have been last week Monday. I said -- I believe I said this on the show that the shutdown is over. Because once everybody saw everybody going out, we knew that was the last day because you could not explain this logically to everybody else you had held captive under house arrest.

So it's one of the great things that the protests did was it opened the doors for everybody. Once they took off, the shutdown was over. So the protests had a lot of good things. It had a lot of bad things, riots, and looting, but the good thing was it allowed all of us to leave.

The protests are good, the rallies are bad, according only to the media. The protests energize the media, but they but the rallies make the media feel really bad because it's something they can't control. They can't control that narrative.

KENNEDY: So, Dana, what is the good news here?

PERINO: Well, I would -- I would point out to something -- the media really focused on the fact that there is going to be a waiver that you sign. If you want to attend the Trump rally, you sign the waiver that says, I won't sue you if I get coronavirus because I came to this rally.

And I thought that that was very interesting. And I hope that when the administration moves forward to work with the Congress on the fourth stimulus bill coming out of the pandemic, that they do offer litigation protection for businesses, because that's what the President is going to need at his rallies. And I think it's, it's obvious to everybody that in order to get the economy really going more quickly, you have to protect these businesses from frivolous lawsuits.

KENNEDY: All right, very good. "FAN MAIL FRIDAY," that's up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: I'm glad we didn't show a bridge during that song. All right, "FAN MAIL FRIDAY." We're answering questions. The first one is a great question from Heidi. Who is your favorite sibling music group? Meaning, a band that had siblings, not your sibling. Kennedy, quickly. I know you have one.

KENNEDY: Hanson.

GUTFELD: Oh, terrible choice, but OK.

KENNEDY: MMMBop.

GUTFELD: Yes. How about you, Jesse, band made of siblings, your favorite sibling bad?

WATTERS: Jackson 5.

GUTFELD: Oh, that's OK. It's kind of strange, but you know, it didn't end well. Juan?

WATTERS: No.

WILLIAMS: That's what -- Jesse took my answer. That's what I was thinking of. I don't know who else I would call on. I don't know, I guess like Sister Sledge or something like that.

GUTFELD: I saw you as in Everly Brothers, but maybe I'm wrong. Dana?

WILLIAMS: No, I like the Everly Brothers.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I was -- I couldn't come up with one, and I was going to say Milli Vanilli because I couldn't think of anything else, and I don't even know if they're brothers. I know that they -- I know that they like played during the --

WILLIAMS: I don't think so.

PERINO: But the Pointer Sisters -- the Pointer Sisters?

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go. Yes. believe it. Milli Vanilli, I don't think they're brothers and I think that didn't end well either. Kennedy, I think you're going to be impressed with my choices. I was going to say the Gatlins but that was -- that's just because I like Larry. But you know what, Jesus and the Mary Chain.

KENNEDY: Jesus and the Mary Chain, yes.

GUTFELD: Boards of Canada, Boards of Canada, The Replacements. The Replacements, Kennedy.

KENNEDY: The Stinsons.

GUTFELD: What?

KENNEDY: The Stinsons.

GUTFELD: Yes, The Stinsons, The Stinsons. OK, from Frenchifirecracker, there's an old friend, what has someone borrowed from you but never given back? And keep it clean, Dana.

PERINO: I can't -- I can't think of a thing.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: I don't have anything really worth borrowing. Not really.

GUTFELD: Oh, that's a terrible thing to say.

PERINO: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: You know, I'm surprised because, Dana, my answer was -- Dana, my answer was going to be people take books and I never see them again. They say they're bringing it back. I never -- and I don't care. Take the book.

GUTFELD: Movies too. Same thing back --

WATTERS: Yes, I don't have that problem.

GUTFELD: Jesse, you're the borrower of lawn tools, right, lawnmowers?

WATTERS: Yes, I borrow things from other people and don't give them back. I don't really have the problem the other way so I don't know what to say. You should see my basement.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know, I just may. Kennedy?

KENNEDY: My loyalty and undying affection.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

PERINO: Going to answer.

GUTFELD: Wow. Somebody stole my golf clubs or borrowed them and never returned them in Pennsylvania and I'm not going to say who it is because it's not worth mentioning his stupid name. And they were my dad's golf clubs, that creep. Not my dad but the guy who stole them. Is that it?

WATTERS: I knew they weren't your clubs.

GUTFELD: Yes, it is. "ONE MORE THING" is up next. We learned so much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time for "ONE MORE THING." I'm going to kick it off. Chris Christie and his wife, Mary Pat have done something really amazing. This is for business owners in New Jersey, so listen up. They have launched a short-term loan program for small businesses in the state that had been affected by the coronavirus. So it's called the NJ30DayFund.

This is modeled off of a nonprofit in Virginia. It starts this week. The fund will start with $100,000 from the Christie family. They've already started to receive additional donations. And right before the show, Mary Pat told me they got another $100,000 donation.

Basically, it's forgivable loans up to $3,000 for businesses owned and operated by a New Jersey resident. They have to have between three and 30 employees. The application process is super quick and you can expect an answer in three days. So if you're in New Jersey, this is you, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__NJ30DayFund.com&d=DwICAg&c=cnx1hdOQtepEQkpermZGwQ&r=tgDLkJy54PfJyWJwul3dKe54qGxqO7b7d5vjo7RcZds&m=Cpl0Pd38PHm2xTAvHNMtGmQvvsQPY4OXzp0jOxLi4Uk&s=Bd5ssSjdXdhHRqa-rL1czMYOe13LWhDQygH8H2Wj12w&e= . If you have a business that will qualify, it's a great way to keep things going as we try to reopen up and get the economy up and going again. All right, Greg.

GUTFELD: All right, the "GREG GUTFELD SHOW" tomorrow night 10:00 p.m. I got Terry Schappert, Joe Concha, Kat Timpf, Tyrus. Joe Concha was the guy who predicted that the "GREG GUTFELD SHOW" would be canceled in like a mirror on the second show. So we're having him on, and I'm going to roast him. Now let's do this quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Animals are great. Animals are great. Animals are great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: It's been a pretty stressful time, so maybe we need a little bit of massage. Check out this little guy giving his other furry friend a nice back massage. I think that's a Swedish massage. I know. It doesn't like it. It doesn't like it. But you know, you got to -- you got to figure out the you know, the tension level and just keep at it, and pretty soon, it all works out, right you little cats?

PERINO: Yes, great. It's super cute.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

PERINO: I need a cat like that. All right, Jesse.

WATTERS: All right, I don't think Jasper can do this, Danna. Take a look at this talented dog.

PERINO: OK.

WATTERS: I don't know who's walking who.

GUTFELD: That's crazy.

WATTERS: That's just --

GUTFELD: That is so wrong.

WATTERS: That's a -- that's a trick. That's a trick. I don't know if I could teach Rookie to do it. Speaking of tricks, "WATTERS' WORLD" 8:00 p.m. Saturday night. We have Rudy Giuliani who I will not be busting on. And we have someone from CHAZ who's been reporting from the new country in Seattle to tell us what it's really like there.

And new developments in the Bill Clinton-Jeffrey Epstein relationship that you've never heard anywhere else tonight on "WATTERS' WORLD" on Saturday.

GUTFELD: Nice.

PERINO: All right, Juan, we've got a little over time. We've got about 20 seconds for you.

WILLIAMS: All right, so here we go. Do you guys believe that a six-year-old can fly? Well, take a look at Nicholas Bubeck. The Arizona boy started putting together wooden airplanes for fun during the pandemic, and then he started selling them around the country at Creations by Nicholas. It went great. Way to fly, Nicholas.

Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2020 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.