President Obama blames Fox News for the Democrats' inability to reach voters

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 30, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi. I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and a matchbox is your bobsled, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

President Obama figured out why the Dems lost the election: It was Fox News. Sure, initially, he blamed his own party, but then he added -- quote -- "part of it is Fox News in every bar and restaurant in big chunks of the country."

Yeah, that's it: Fox News is in every bar and restaurant. Yet, you will find us right next to the live pandas riding giant flaming unicorns made of leather and creamy nougat.

But he is kind of right. "Chunks" of America do watch Fox. But the idea that businesses blares the network tells you how detached Captain Sulk really is. Most Americans don't shout their politics, much less blast it from their TVs while serving you fried pickles -- that's the left.

True, the country is divided, but it's not right and left. It's left and not left. It is because for liberals, politics is personal and therefore extremely loud. For the rest of us, we prefer community over calamity. Case in point: Who did Mr. Obama give this interview to? An interview where he blamed the media for lying and dividing? Rolling Stone. That lefty snot rag that pedaled the UVA rape hoax and sanctified the Boston bomber with a cover. If that is not divisive, what is? But he went there for comfort. Rolling Stone soothes Obama's synapses. It is always on in the bar of his mind.

So as his job winds down, Mr. Obama will go down as one of our most persuasive leaders. Yet he couldn't -- he couldn't persuade himself to get beyond his own safe space. As he watches President-elect Trump cheerfully road trip from one city to the next talking to thousands of Americans, Mr. Obama has got to wonder, why the hell didn't I think of that?

So, Kimberly, it is always our fault, isn't it? We're the bad guys in every story.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: And we're the good guys. It's a complicated duality.



GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: Very Freudian.

GUILFOYLE: Obviously. So I think it's interesting because he does give us a lot of time and attention and kind of like props.


GUILFOYLE: Because he is talking about us. He is saying that Fox News is this powerful. The ratings backed up that we're the most watched, right, in cable news, and beating networks across the board, and entertainment and sports as well. So the empirical evidence is there. The president is talking about it. And then you look and you see, OK, do you want to give us credit for it? No. I think you should give credit to the American people that got involved and all the people that came out and voted and supported their candidate.

GUTFELD: Juan, is he seeking scapegoats? Is FNC always for him a proxy for people who he doesn't want to mention? Like is he just saying, these are people you know.

GUILFOYLE: Deplorable?

GUTFELD: You know what we're talking about.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Really? No, I don't think so. I once had a conversation with the president. And he was -- we were talking about do whites support President Obama.


WILLIAMS: And he was saying, well, you got to draw a line. Because guess what, whites in the south did not vote for Obama, but a lot of whites in the north did. I was curious about looking it up. He was right, you get into Michigan, Wisconsin, go across into Ohio, they were all Obama supporters.

GUILFOYLE: You fact checked them?





WILLIAMS: But here, he is saying in this interview, hey, guess what, a lot of those people who voted for me before no longer are hearing the Democratic message. And part of that he said -- I just want to emphasize, he said Democrats are doing a lousy job of getting on the ground, of communicating that message that you know things like what he sees as beneficial -- I know you guys don't. But the Affordable Care Act, minimum wage, family leave, you know, these are things that he thinks are beneficial to that group. And he is saying, Fox News is out there and Fox News sells this message that oh, I disrespect, all Democrats want to do is take away your guns. Not yours, Greg. You get to keep yours. And therefore, you know, somehow you can never vote for a Democrat.


WILLIAMS: And I think -- so you are right. He is a little bit in the -- he said it doesn't help to get in the fetal position.


WILLIAMS: But this did come across as whining about Fox News. And I know, they can't stand Fox News.


GUILFOYLE: You fact checked that?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I don't have to fact check that one.


BOLLING: What bars are you hanging out in giant pandas, leather and flaming nougat?

GUTFELD: Captain Harry's. It's downtown. Lou goes there.



BOLLING: Look what's going on, President Obama now says stop watching Fox News. Donald Trump to his credit went on all the other networks. Hillary Clinton came on this network I think three times in 2016. But prior to that, it averaged maybe one to one and a half per year. The Democrats don't come over here. The high level ranking Democrats typically don't come over here. But guys like Donald Trump spend a lot of time on CNN and MSNBC. I wonder how many voters he turned who are hard core liberal Democrats -- that he turned to vote for him. Now we know in refuting some of Juan's numbers here, whites increased by 1 percent from Mitt Romney to Donald Trump. African-Americans were up by 6 percent -- I'm sorry, 4 percent and Hispanics were up 6 percent.


WILLIAMS: In terms of voter turnout?

BOLLING: In terms of Donald Trump's people who voted for Donald Trump, the smallest increase of groups -- of racial groups was whites.

WILLIAMS: No, no. Whites went up for Trump.


BOLLING: By 1 percent.


BOLLING: By 1 percent only.


BOLLING: Like 4 percent for blacks and 6 percent for Hispanics.

WILLIAMS: For a Republican.


BOLLING: My point is this, if you are willing to go on other networks, if you're willing to spread the field, you might actually win an election. A Democrat might consider the next Democrat that wants to run for president, maybe you could.


GUTFELD: You were saying through the primary, going after Sanders supporters.


GUTFELD: Harder than Hillary was, I think. Dana, his point about divisiveness is not news. But we have been trying to point that out to him for years. There's some culpability here in his party, because they're the party of identity.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah, you see that right now. There are fights on the Democratic side in the House when they had the leadership meeting today to re-elect Pelosi to be the minority leader. There are fights with the congressional -- within the Congressional Black Caucus and leadership positions in the Hispanic Caucus. So, yeah, they are caught up in identity politics. It trips them up. I think the other thing that has happened is that conservatives are right leaning, Republicans, all that big group, they have become better at social media than they were in 2008. President Obama knew that digital space very well. He wasn't afraid of it, had everything going for him.


PERINO: And that's one of the reasons the youth vote was so captured by him, because he was talking directly to them. And they had cat people for Obama.


PERINO: He would micro-target all the way down. The other thing is that when he was talking about this being a communications problem for them, I always sort of -- like a cat, when you rub it the wrong way, because it's not a communications problem. They have a fact problem. It's not the PR people's fault. They were out outfoxed by Fox.


PERINO: And the fact that he gave it to Rolling Stone really does bother me. I think that that is a discredited magazine.


PERINO: And it was only a place many it would be comfortable.


GUILFOYLE: That was surprising.

PERINO: Do you go to any -- I know one restaurant in New York, at least that plays Fox. It's west Side Steak House on Ninth Avenue. Other than that, the only place I have been recently where they had Fox News on it in airport bar was in Wyoming.


PERINO: . where you might expect it. Other than that, it's always sports or CNN.


GUILFOYLE: New York Athletic Club has us on.


GUTFELD: Fox isn't even on at Jiffy Lube.

PERINO: Did you ask for it?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: Demand it.

GUTFELD: I will, I will. Since you brought up Nancy, so Nancy held on to her job, Nancy Pelosi. Here is her discussing this wonderful day.


NANCY PELOSI, U.S. MINORITY LEADER: I have a special spring in my step today because this opportunity is a special one to lead the House Democrats, bring everyone together as we go forward. This does afford an opportunity, so that the Congressional Democrats can go forward and remove all doubt, and never again will we have an election where there is any doubt in anyone's mind, where the Democrats are, when it comes to America's working families.


GUTFELD: So, Kimberly, she has a spring in her step. Don't most robots do?

GUILFOYLE: But not in her words. I don't know what was going on there. That wasn't particularly you know inspirational. I have known her a long time. I don't think it's one of her best speeches. I don't know. This is probably her last hurrah. Put it that way.

GUTFELD: Shouldn't the last hurrah have been the last hurray?

GUILFOYLE: Right. I don't know what to tell you. It's like Weekend At Bernie's or something.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I mean, you know, we talked about hope and change. Democrats were hoping for change, and they're getting more of Nancy.



WILLIAMS: The thing is, it's so interesting to me, too. Ryan, the congressman from Ohio, said he won his district but guess what, Hillary Clinton lost that district in Ohio. And he said, you know what, a lot of the Democrats at the top including Pelosi don't know how to talk to people in his district.


WILLIAMS: And he thought he could do it, he is a younger guy. He is in his 40s.


GUILFOYLE: Do you think this was a mistake?

WILLIAMS: I don't think it was a mistake because this is about money. Pelosi raises a lot of money.

GUILFOYLE: That's all it is about.


WILLIAMS: I don't think it's all about because I think the women -- Democratic women were strongly behind Nancy Pelosi, including some women who were critical of her leadership. So I think for Democrats, it's like, OK, Nancy Pelosi is there. She can bring in the bucks. The Democrats are definitely, definitely struggling right now. But the question is, can you hold her feet to the fire in terms of getting some real change, getting away from the identity politics, which is a huge argument right now inside the party?

BOLLING: So I come from two worlds. I come from the sports world first, and then I came from the trading world, Wall Street world, two worlds of meritocracy. Where if you produce, you stay, you promote, you play, you get bigger, you get better. For some reason, politics and maybe even media are the two places where the meritocracy just falls apart. Nancy Pelosi, under her reign, has lost 69 House seats. The Democrats have lost 69 house seats during the time she's been minority speaker, majority speaker, whatever. That doesn't -- if you were losing like that in a football team, game, you would be.

GUILFOYLE: You are fired.


BOLLING: Try something new, Democrats.


GUILFOYLE: They're being tone deaf.

BOLLING: I agree with Juan. I disagree with you and I agree with you. I think it is about money, but I think it's only about money, because there are a lot of bright, young, up and coming Democrats that could do a better job in my opinion uniting the Democrats as a group.


WILLIAMS: Tim Ryan would not have pleased you. His politics are almost identical to Pelosi.


GUILFOYLE: They're afraid to do it.


GUILFOYLE: They're afraid to take her on because she raises all the money. That's it.


WILLIAMS: That's what I say.

GUTFELD: Reinforce a loss in 2020.

PERINO: Good. Pretty much what she got was a participation trophy. What you have with eighth grade graduation, which I cannot stand, the graduation before the high school graduation.


PERINO: It's like that. The other thing that she might be able to do -- if you look around at the Democratic leadership right now, they're all like 66 and above. So can she find a way to bring some of the younger members to more prominence, so that they actually get a chance to be known throughout the country? She might.


GUILFOYLE: They got to do something.

PERINO: Put them on Fox News.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. They need to wake up. If that wasn't a big sign with what happened with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren that the people who vote Democrat want change, Hillary Clinton losing again, they're never going to learn their lesson.


BOLLING: They were looking to pick up 30 House seats in the last election. They would have been happy with 20, they would have been OK with 12. They got 6.


BOLLING: That's blatant failure. Wait until the next election cycle. It will get worse. All right.

GUTFELD: Excellent. Next, president-elect Trump warns about the refugee threat to America after the Islamic refugee attack at Ohio State. Stay tuned.



GUILFOYLE: On the campaign trail, president-elect Trump warned we must stop taking in refugees, we cannot properly vet from volatile regions like Syria or Somalia. And on Monday, a Somalia refugee went on the attack at Ohio State, injuring 11 before a brave police officer shot him dead. Mr. Trump tweeted about it this morning. He wrote ISIS is taking credit for the terrible stabbing attack at Ohio State University by a Somalia refugee, who should not have been in our country. Bill O'Reilly thinks the president-elect call for extreme vetting of refugees is spot on.


BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR SHOW HOST: This was a major campaign issue between Clinton and Trump over Muslim immigration. The Democratic Party angry that the Republican Party wants to limit immigration from terrorist states like Somalia, Donald Trump was branded an anti-Muslim bigot. But step back for a moment. While most refugees who come to the U.S. are good people, a significant number are not. And when you have radicalized countries like Somalia where ISIS and al-Qaeda are widely accepted, shouldn't there be extreme vetting as Mr. Trump has proposed?


GUILFOYLE: OK. Extreme vetting. So this is part of the mandate that he feels that was put forward by the campaign by the movement that he created, Greg. And now, we have another example of terrorism here on our soil.

GUTFELD: I want to know how he was vetted. That's important because the problem with self-radicalization, that happens after you are vetted. And I think that extreme vetting isn't enough when your country's culture feeds this concept of grievance. Remember, this is a guy who came here supposedly, allegedly happy who then immediately or in time saw himself as a victim of Islamophobia. That's a grievance identity structure that is created by the culture. They profile them in a paper. They fed a victim narrative. And I definitely think there is a concept -- I can't think of the psychologist's name, about greeting people with wounds. This guy felt he was wounded. And you go to campus now and the campus hands you your wound. You are a victim. And that causes you to say, I'm going to lash out. Jake Tapper re-tweeted this article last night. It explains this. We are elevating victimology and turning people into terrorists.

GUILFOYLE: They hand you essentially, Dana, your victim card when you walk into college campuses these days.

PERINO: Yeah. And then you can find your safe space or not.



PERINO: I do wonder about that transparency, how much can the government tell us about his vetting process? That would actually help because if you want to move to more extreme vetting, so what does that mean? We need a baseline.

GUTFELD: How old is he?

BOLLING: Eighteen.

WILLIAMS: Eighteen .


GUILFOYLE: They're investigating whether he lied about his age to try to get in.


BOLLING: How do you vet someone who has no history?


BOLLING: They are showing up. You don't know what their past is about. I'm sorry, Dana.

PERINO: No, I'm good.

BOLLING: Can I throw in here, look, Donald Trump said we need to limit immigration, Muslim immigration or immigration from certain places. You can't say by religion, you can't say Muslim, and you can't say by race, but you can say by country of origin. And it's not new. It happens all the time. It happened in a prior Republican administration, as well where you can say these countries have high incidents of terror, whether it's Somalia, Yemen, Syria et cetera. If you go by geographic location, you can do this and we should be doing this. But again, to let someone in and say you have extreme vetted them without knowing a darn thing about their past, where they come from, what their history is, have they ever been jailed, have they ever killed anyone, what is their school history. You just can't do it. You have to take a minute and say, no, we need to stop this for now. And hire a lot of people to figure it out.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And by the way, Juan, what's wrong with actually enforcing the immigration rules and laws that are on the books now? You have to call it extreme vetting to actually just do the job to represent and follow the laws that are on the books. That's really what this is about.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so.


GUILFOYLE: He's not saying shut down the refugee program.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. And by the way, Bill O'Reilly -- I'm so sorry, I heard him saying, he said, you know, the family's record was clean when they came here in 2007. There was nothing that would have said, stop this family. And of course, the young man back then, I guess he was nine years old. So what we're talking about is.

GUTFELD: We're talking about America.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And we're talking about self-radicalization. According to the FBI, there's no indication he was in contact with any terror group. This is something that was going. So what you are talking about, Greg, the kind of victim -- taking on the victim identity and the injury and he was upset about something going on in Burma.


WILLIAMS: That's all true. I wanted to just go back on you, Eric and say, there are 100,000 Somalians that have come here since 9/11. And if you are going to pick out this one kid and say because of this one kid who was, as Greg said.


WILLIAMS: It's not like we don't vet people coming into the country.


BOLLING: Many, many U.S. government administrations have done -- they have halted immigration from certain countries where there are high incidents of terror going on.

WILLIAMS: We do that, too. We already do that. You don't want to acknowledge it.


BOLLING: Some of the Somali communities are having to people defect to ISIS.


GUILFOYLE: We can make exaggeration and you can operate and use the facts. Bolling, give me a second. All right. Never mind.


BOLLING: It's ridiculous what he said. Did I ever insinuate we should kick off.



WILLIAMS: You said don't allow people to come into the country because they are coming from a country with -- OK, go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: Will you let me talk now and finish what I have to say, either one of you? Over 40 Somali-Americans are fighting for ISIS. This is a serious problem. It's not limited to one individual. And not only that, this runaway open border system with uncontrolled illegal immigration is also crippling our school public education system as well. So there are far reaching ramifications for the economy, for the borders, for immigration, education, all across the border, national security. Terror is happening here.

GUTFELD: Can I answer.

BOLLING: Yeah. Go.


GUTFELD: As long as the country refuses to counter the anti-West narrative with a pro-West narrative, we don't do that. We don't talk about why our country is exceptional.

BOLLING: Maybe we will.


BOLLING: Make America great again. Again, that was the whole point about -- behind the again part that people were freaking out about on the left.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, anything?

PERINO: I would just say that the country as it re-examines the vetting process, it also needs to think about how do you solve this problem at its source? That's the only way to stop the refugee problem. They don't want to leave the countries. But if we don't want to participate and help them figure out a way to have a place where they can safely live, then the western world is going to have this problem. So solving it at its source is actually the solution.

GUILFOYLE: It comes to our shores. And Syria is the perfect example of that. We need to do something there to fix the problem.

Ahead, the art of the deal, president-elect Trump convinces air conditioning company, Carrier, to keep their jobs in America. A huge victory for our incoming leader. Details when The Five returns.


BOLLING: America First, it's president-elect Trump's guiding principle. He believes American jobs should stay in America and delivered that message loud and clear to air conditioning company, Carrier, after it said it would shutter its plant in Indianapolis and move its manufacturing south of the border.


DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT-ELECT: I would say, if you leave, there are consequences, Carrier. Here is what's going to happen. You are going to leave Indiana, you are going to leave Indianapolis. I wish you a lot of luck in Mexico. Enjoy the heat. Enjoy the heat. And I hope you build a really beautiful factory. But here is what's going to happen. Every single air conditioning unit that you make, we will be charging you a 35 percent tax, every single one.


TRUMP: And just yesterday, Carrier announced they would be keeping that AC plant in Indiana which is in the middle of, wait for it, America. This Carrier employee who speaks for thousands is extremely grateful.


ROBIN MAYNARD, CARRIER EMPLOYEE: I would like to tell him thank you for going out of your way and taking your holiday away from your family and working on the Carrier and employees deal, and sticking to your word and going to bat for all of us at Carrier and keeping our jobs here. And I would like to thank him and Mike Pence for doing it so quickly.


BOLLING: The reason why I love the idea of a businessman as president is exactly this Carrier situation and that employee. Think about it. We have a president-elect who picks up a phone and starts dialing a CEO and things get done. So first Ford, now Carrier, the president-elect even before being sworn in is already delivers on a major campaign promise, keeping jobs here in America. Now, that's something you haven't been able to say in like forever. So, Juan, you have to admit, this is good. This is what he promised. And already before even being sworn in, jobs are sticking around.

WILLIAMS: I just think this is a sucker's deal here. I just can't believe it. I mean, not only is Carrier, which is part of United Technologies, sacrificing I think it's $65 million in savings, Eric, by not moving, you got to realize things that Greg talks about all the time, globalization, automation and then guess what, United Technologies which would have lost some of its Pentagon defense contracts, is able to say, "Oh, no, we're part of Carrier. We did a good thing," and so then they get tax breaks.

And it's not a free market, which I know you love. You love the free market.


WILLIAMS: But this is not a free-market deal. So what does it say to the average American worker? "Oh, Donald Trump will come rescue you," when we know that's not the case.

BOLLING: Actually, I'll push back a little, but I would say it is more of a free-market deal, because the deal that Carrier got is that they'll be able to -- they'll have some tax incentives to stay. And they said, "You know what? It's a good deal."

I'm going to throw it at you. Rexnord, Cardone, LMI Aerospace, Manitowoc Food. There are other companies that said they're going to move to Mexico who are now putting it back on the table.

GUTFELD: Well, that's because we don't know what the carrot or the stick is. I'd want to know what's going on.

Like a deal -- the end result is -- of the deal is not the deal itself. It's what happens after. And we don't know what happens after.

Remember, we -- you know, President Obama made some questionable deals, like Solyndra. We knew what happened. It was a disaster. So you've got to wait.

But this does illustrate a difference between President Obama and President-elect Trump. President Obama, would he have talked to these folks? Probably not. He would have had a beer with Professor Gates. That didn't work out too well for the ensuing four years. It created a narrative that we've all been trying to escape from.

In this case, you know, you have a president-elect who will get up, get on a plane, fly somewhere and schmooze to save 1,000 jobs. That's the difference.

However, I just want to know, what is the -- what is the -- if you're threatening tariffs, that's bad news. That ain't capitalism. That's worse than anything I can think of.

BOLLING: But he added tax incentives.

GUTFELD: Which is good.

PERINO: Right. So there's probably a lot that we don't know. But I would say brilliant P.R. move. I mean, works really well. You've got to imagine the Obama White House is probably pulling its hair out.

GUTFELD: What's left.

PERINO: What the -- what the president of the United States can do is set the conditions for economic growth as they see fit. And so I think that what you've seen since the election is -- there's nothing tangible yet. The election's only three weeks ago. But already you can see American companies thinking, "OK, wait, let's take a pause. Maybe this is going to be a place we're going to be able to stay and do business."

That's not a bad thing. That's, like, an intangible thing. It's just a feeling. But you can bet that these companies are going to be saying to the transition team and then to whoever ends up in the administration that, "OK, if we're going to stay here, we're going to need something on corporate tax reform," et cetera. All the things that need to be done to set the conditions for economic growth.

BOLLING: K.G., Donald Trump during the early part of the campaign, had said, Nabisco. Remember, Oreos, wanted to see Nabisco back here? They're on the table. Here's the big one. The auto industry, nine of the last 11 auto plants in North America were built in Mexico. That's 2 million vehicles that are going to come out of Mexico next year. That could be a good incentive to bring some production back here.

GUILFOYLE: Sure. I'd love to see more manufacturing here, whether it's cars, or goods, textiles, anything that we can to get things back here, create American jobs. God knows that we have an ever-increasing population and also an immigrant population, documented or not coming in. Everybody needs jobs. So that's one way to get the economy going.

I think this is a step in the right direction. I'm glad that he followed through on it. Didn't even wait until he took office. He delivered on a promise that he said that he was going to do. So this is a perfect example. Hopefully, other people, other companies take the lead and say, "OK, we're going to try and do something, too, to show that we're all in on this" and manifest change.

GUTFELD: Could companies pretend that they're leaving in order to get the meeting and...

GUILFOYLE: And get good will?

GUTFELD: Yes. How's that?

BOLLING: Why don't we just offer the incentive to all American companies?

GUTFELD: Exactly, exactly.

BOLLING: And make it just an even playing field.

WILLIAMS: You know, I have a real concern about my cookies. Am I going to have to pay more now for a simple Oreo cookie and milk?

BOLLING: No. Probably not.


BOLLING: Probably not going to change.

Let me tell you one thing, though. Since Donald Trump was elected president, the stock market has risen like crazy, maybe because a lot of companies are going to keep some of their own money that they've earned.

All right. Ahead, the very first item on President-elect Trump's post- inauguration agenda, Vice-President-elect Pence reveals it next.


PERINO: President-elect Trump has vowed to repeal and replace Obamacare, and he plans to get the process started as soon as he takes office, according to Vice-President-elect Mike Pence.


GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IL), VICE-PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will be the first thing out of the gate. The president-elect's made it very clear he wants the Congress, when they convene in early January, to take up the task of repealing and replacing Obamacare first.

And the appointment of Dr. Tom Price as the head of Health And Human Services, someone who literally for the last half a dozen years has been in the forefront of efforts not only to repeal Obamacare but to put forward common-sense free-market solutions that will lower the cost of health insurance without growing the size of government is very exciting and should be a source of great encouragement to millions of Americans.


PERINO: So Eric, this is something that America has been waiting for. Right? Like, there's going to be changes to Obamacare. What's it going to be? I'm -- I'm watching with fascination, because I don't think it's going to be as easy as some people think. But I do think that they might just go ahead and repeal and then wait to replace.

BOLLING: And so we had the big discussion yesterday on how is this going to work? And Juan pointed out accurately that Price's -- this was Price's idea in 2009 that we were kind of looking at.

But Paul Ryan came out with a statement I believe yesterday or this morning saying, "Hey, this is great news." Congressman Pence -- Price's plan. That Paul Ryan would like to work with him, and they'll put together something that works for everybody.

So it wasn't -- yesterday wasn't...

PERINO: A starting point.

BOLLING: It was a starting point, not a finishing point. And I think you're right. It's going to be tough, especially if they do it that way where they say, "Good-bye, let's start all over."

One of the issues that you had was the tax credit doesn't cover a deductible, but nor does Obamacare. So if people won't be in a worse position, they may be even in a better position.

WILLIAMS: I think Obamacare covers much of the -- in fact, for 85 percent plus of people on Obamacare, it covers the deductible.

But here's my thing. Right now when they say right out of the box, I come back to what Dana Perino was just talking about. Exactly how do you replace it? So let's say you do away with it. You say, "This is such a -- it's an abomination."

GUTFELD: Obama-nation.

WILLIAMS: "Obama-nation." There we go.

And then you say, "What about these 20 million people who got coverage? What about the people who said, 'I like keeping my kid on till --?' What about people are pre-existing conditions?"

"Oh, no, You can't take care of them, because we have no mandate," which I know is a big objection of yours. "And we don't have a plan."

So even -- even President-elect Trump once said, "You can't just put these people out on the street."

BOLLING: They're not on the street. They still have Medicare and Medicaid. So that's always going to be there. And you have emergency rooms, which we had before, until another plan is floated that's acceptable.

WILLIAMS: And drive up my -- every time you and I get sick, we'll pay more. And the insurance companies will get richer.

BOLLING: Kind of like now.

PERINO: I think that all remains to be seen.

But Kimberly, I think that some patience is warranted. It really only has been about three weeks since the election. Nobody is going to have this solved in -- within the next 30 days.

GUTFELD: Very clever.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's true. I mean, but already, we're seeing some things happen. And I think the transition is going very well. And he's made some good appointments, including in this critical area, where he's made a promise to the country that he -- and to his supporters that he's going to do something and really large magnitude of change...


GUILFOYLE: ... with respect to repealing and replacing Obamacare, putting something in that is going to be great that puts patients first, that's going to be affordable, where there are options so that people actually get quality of care for a very good cost-effective price.

That's what anybody wants, isn't it? To be able to take care of their family members, make sure that they're -- the elderly, the young, those that are most vulnerable on the bookends of society, to be able to get quality care.

So I'm excited about it. I think it's great. And I like the appointment.

PERINO: You know what would be an interesting job for this next administration? Is the head of White House legislative affairs. You have to go up and you're -- basically, that person has to work with both the Republicans and the Democrats to try to bring everybody together.


PERINO: Would you want that job?

GUTFELD: No. I just think this is going to be fun, because Republicans get to pretend to be liberals. They get to construct a government program. And what happens if Republicans are better at it...

GUILFOYLE: Do a good job.

GUTFELD: They're better at it. They could be -- they're basically Democrats with a business degree and a better calculator.

And I'm also curious: where is AARP now? The folks that were the apostles for Obamacare, where is the AMA? We should check our...

PERINO: The pharmaceuticals.


PERINO: Where's big pharma?

GUTFELD: Yes. They're on milk cartons they're so missing.

GUILFOYLE: Wait. Do you have your card yet?

GUTFELD: Yes. I got the magazine, and I tore it up, because it's AARP, or "Arp."

BOLLING: Can I point something out? You make a very good point. You end up with a system that is government-run but not mandated, which is my big problem. And when you do that, you create competition instead of killing competition.


BOLLING: And that's how you drive down prices, create a government option like do you in the post office. You can put a letter in the mail or you can pay extra and go get -- you know, could be better service to be FedEx or U.P.S. That's how you keep prices down. That's why a stamp is still whatever.

WILLIAMS: They're talking -- by the way, AMA, big supporters of Tom Price. They like him. Right?

But what you're going to see now is things like states put in control of some of this money. This is the idea of block grants. And that will just drive down -- drive down quality of care in some cases.


WILLIAMS: Because eligibility will be set by states. And so you get a state that says, "You know, you're not eligible. You're not eligible." I just think it's...

PERINO: I don't know. I think...

WILLIAMS: I hope that what you said is right, Greg. I hope that Republicans do a better job.

BOLLING: You're not mandated to buy that exact government option, the single payer, then all you're doing is creating more competition. That drives prices down.

WILLIAMS: Competition?

PERINO: I think local control could be better. Because as a state -- as a governor, you understand your state even better.

GUILFOYLE: You understand the needs.

PERINO: I think so.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I think it's more tailor-made approach, versus one approach, one fit for all. We know that doesn't work.

PERINO: Well, we'll have to see.

GUTFELD: Will we?

PERINO: Yes, we will have to see.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: We're not going to solve this in the next five minutes.

GUTFELD: Can't we?

PERINO: Up next, one-time Trump critic Mitt Romney had a lot of nice words to say about the president-elect yesterday after they dined in New York. You're going to hear from the secretary of state contender when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: President-elect Trump and Mitt Romney apparently letting bygones be bygones. They met for a second time yesterday as Mr. Trump considers picking Romney for secretary of state.

Mitt Romney addressed reporters following the dinner and shared these very nice words about the president-elect.


MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have to tell you, I've been impressed by what I've seen in the transition effort.

I happen to think that America's best days are ahead of us. I think you're going to see America continuing to lead the world in this century. And what I've seen through these discussions I've had with President-elect Trump, as well as what we've seen in his speech at the night of his victory, all of those things combined give me increasing hope that President-elect Trump is the very man who can lead us to that better future.


WILLIAMS: So Kimberly, one of the things he said is, "You know what? Donald Trump achieved something I never could. He won the general election."

But of course, this is the same Mitt Romney who said he was -- that Trump was a fraud, that he was hitting on married women, that he condoned vile assault that demeaned our wives and daughters. So what should we think when he comes out and now says Trump is the best thing since sliced bread?

GUILFOYLE: Well, it seems like he's had a change of opinion, as evidenced by that statement, in terms of what he believes are the qualities that President-elect Trump has to govern and lead the country. And that's based on one-on-one time and sit-downs with him and going over not only, you know, foreign, international affairs. I'm quite certain they talked about different things with the economy, as well.

So let's see what comes out of this. His name certainly has not been removed from the list of contenders, of serious contenders for secretary of state. Nobody doubts Romney's qualifications to be able to take that position. But there are many that feel that others would be better suited, like Rudy Giuliani or somebody, that sees and has always seen eye to eye with President-elect Trump and been supportive of him. I mean, ultimately, he's got to make the decision.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Eric, Jean Georges.

BOLLING: Nice restaurant.

WILLIAMS: I was going to say, have you been there?

BOLLING: No, I've never been there.

WILLIAMS: How did you know it was a nice restaurant?

GUILFOYLE: I have. And they have cotton candy.

BOLLING: I -- all the Jean Georges restaurants are.

GUILFOYLE: But I lived in the building.

BOLLING: So can I just...


BOLLING: Look, rather than speculate on who the next secretary of state is going to be, can I just point out I think the transition is going very smoothly? And it's going at a brisk pace. You have -- look, you have treasury, Mnuchin; and you have attorney general, Sessions; commerce, Wilbur Ross.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Draining the swamp.

GUTFELD: The swamp is Goldman Sachs.

WILLIAMS: That's what is...

BOLLING: The three big ones that are left, in my opinion, state, defense and energy. And good for him for taking his time. Look, it looks like it's a very...

WILLIAMS: Is this -- is he just playing with this guy like a mouse? A cat and a mouse?

BOLLING: No idea. I don't know.

PERINO: What if Romney is?

WILLIAMS: Tell me what you mean.

PERINO: I'm kidding. What if, like, at the end of the whole process, Donald Trump were to offer it to Romney, and he said, "Never mind. I don't want do it." I'm not suggesting that's what's happening. I'm just playing the other mouth.

GUILFOYLE: Well, now also Ambassador Bolton is scheduled...

PERINO: And John Bolton had a meeting today or is having a meeting.

GUILFOYLE: With Pence in D.C. and will meet with President-elect Trump at 1:30 on Friday here in New York, according to Bill (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

PERINO: Can I just say one thing?

WILLIAMS: Of course.

PERINO: Is that I do believe that forgiveness is the most important trait of a leader, be it Donald Trump or Romney or whoever. You know, I remember watching when the five presidents got together in the Oval Office after President-elect Obama was elected. And he was -- they were all there together. And you think, like how much forgiveness it takes in that room for all the things they've said about each other and they -- their ability to let it go is pretty impressive.

WILLIAMS: So what I'm hearing, Greg, is that Petraeus not really a candidate. You know, and if so -- it really comes down to Giuliani and Romney. And maybe John Bolton.

GUTFELD: It's a lot of speculation. But did you see those pictures from last night? Mitt looked as comfortable as, like, a hemorrhoid with a migraine. It's just like -- and you could see Reince -- that Reince was like the kid at Thanksgiving. Mom and Dad are over, and he's hoping that the eyes lock, and they finally get back together, because they've been separated all year. And he's like, "Can't I get these people to get along?"

GUILFOYLE: "Parent Trap." "Parent Trap." Remember that?

GUTFELD: Yes, "Parent Trap."

But anyway, I'm with Scott Adams on this. He said this in an interview with Joe Rogan. There's no such thing as hypocrisy in politics. To the original thing that you said to Kimberly.

Mitt can say this three years ago; and then you can change and say something else in politics.

BOLLING: It's politics.

GUTFELD: We're like fish. We have short attention spans. We just move on.

GUILFOYLE: Any other grooming or wardrobe adjustments?

GUTFELD: My tie is a little crooked. But we'll get to that later.

WILLIAMS: You look lovely.

GUTFELD: Thank you, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Lovely, lovely, lovely.

GUTFELD: We'll see you later tonight.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.


GUTFELD: It's time for "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: OK. Here's an important one. There's a -- there's a fund called Staff Sergeant Joseph D'Augustine Fund. It's set up to help out to kind of surprise returning vets when they come back with holiday gifts.

There's a website called Secret Santas for Vets. And it's -- the website is And honor -- in honor of Staff Sergeant D'Augustine, who was a Marine who was killed in action in 2012 after -- during his second tour of duty in Afghanistan.

So if you want to help out, if you want to get involved or you know a vet who needs to be surprised at holiday time, go to

WILLIAMS: Very cool.


WILLIAMS: So it's that time of year again. People all around the world getting set for winter and frigid temperatures. And that includes Domino's. Domino's, Kimberly, in Japan.

Check this out, Domino's Japan trying to train reindeer to deliver pizzas.


WILLIAMS: Not robots, Greg.

You heard that right. If you live in Hokkaido, your delivery man could actually be a delivery deer. The company is hoping to train reindeer to deliver pizzas to customers at times of heavy snow.

The company is working with a Japanese research center to ensure, Dana, that the delivery deer stay safe. They'll be monitored, and they'll be careful about how much weight they have to carry.

PERINO: Robots would be easier.



GUTFELD: Delivery costs 12 bucks.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. They better not be doing that 30 minute or less thing. They're going to lose a lot of money.

PERINO: That's right. But if you're snowed in, you can wait.

I just have a short one. You know I like podcasts.


PERINO: There's a new one...


PERINO: ... that I have -- was new to me. I can't actually say the word. It's kick-a-s-s.


PERINO: Apparently, I'm not allowed to say it, and we're not allowed to show it. Ben Mathis is the host of it. If you go to iTunes and subscribe, I promise you, your commute will improve.

I did an interview with him out in California, and all of us should do interviews with him. And in particular, he wants to talk to Greg about artificial intelligence.

GUTFELD: That's as-inine. All right.

PERINO: That's what it is. And there's a new "I'll Tell You What" podcast that just posted. We talk about frog's legs and Flowbees.

WILLIAMS: He's terrific, by the way. I've done one with him.

PERINO: Ben Mathis?


GUTFELD: K.G., you've got food.

GUILFOYLE: What else is new? Right. Time for...


GUILFOYLE: Kimberly's Food Court.


GUILFOYLE: It sounds like, "Say it now -- do it now." OK. Or whatever.

OK. "Napoleon Dynamite." Do you remember this movie?

GUTFELD: Lovely movie.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, OK. So it was a smash hit, and that was back in 2004. Thanks in part to scenes like this.


JON HEDER, ACTOR: Are you going to eat your tots?




GUILFOYLE: OK. I love this. I've put pigs in a blanket in my pockets, my coat pockets at good parties that have a lot.

OK, so Burger King has reunited now with those two characters. Jon Heder played Napoleon, and Efren Ramirez, who played Pedro, for this new commercial promoting the return of the cheesy tots.

Now, they are actually only for a limited time. I think that means if they are good, they'll stay on there.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Good idea.

GUTFELD: Excellent. You want to hear...


GUTFELD: You want to hear...

GUILFOYLE: Even without ketchup.

GUTFELD: Do you want to hear a better idea?



GUTFELD: Greg's Nickelback News.


GUTFELD: All right, America. Talking about cruel and unusual punishment, in Canada, a Canadian police force has threatened to play Nickelback to any drunk drivers when they are arrested over the holiday season. So they will get you; they will arrest you; and then they'll put you in the back seat of a car and force to you listen to Nickelback. That, my friends, will keep anybody from driving drunk. OK.

GUILFOYLE: That picture looks like you are in the band.

GUTFELD: I am in the band.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, yes.

GUTFELD: Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" up next.

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