Politics and Thanksgiving: Tips to navigate potential minefields

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Gutfeld on how to talk politics at Thanksgiving

Tips to navigate your way through awkward holiday dinner talks.

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 20, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kennedy, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and she circled the Earth in a gravy boat, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

A new poll shows that 53 percent of Americans say talking politics with someone they disagree with is stressful and frustrating. This is surprising. It means there are 47 percent who don't find talking politics with someone they disagree with to be stressful and frustrating. I don't believe it. Around this time, I usually do a monologue and how to reduce political tension at Thanksgiving dinner.

It never helps. No one ever listens and why should they? Taking advice from a TV host is like taking a ride from a stranger. It's risky and you often end up dead. So instead of avoiding politics, let's go all in at Thanksgiving. But first you must find the right way to insert it into dinner conversation. Here are some examples. Wow, these mashed potatoes are really hot almost as hot as our economy, which under President Trump grew at a 3 to 4percent rate.

Looks like we have more dinner rolls than people, much like jobs under Donald Trump who helped create 4 million of them in just two years. So, gramps, why don't you carve the turkey, just like President Trump carved our bloated bureaucracy when he cut 16 rules and regulations for everyone created saving us $8 billion.

Looks like we ran out of gravy, much like what happened to our doctors under Obamacare. Thank God, Donald Trump repealed that mandate. Am I right, grandma? I'm stuffed, much like the Supreme Court is with two sterling appointments in Justice Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. May be the kids can clear the table just like Trump cleared the country of MS-13. Honey, can you take out the trash?

Just put it on the curb next to the Paris Climate Accord and that awful Iran treaty. Oh, I love some pumpkin pie. Doesn't the color remind you of Donald Trump's gorgeous hair? So that's it. If you can't avoid politics, why avoid politics? Instead, set the tone and the table with the truth because if you don't, someone else surely will.

All right, I'm going to go to the people who have the conflicting Thanksgiving table routine. And, Jesse, do your parents go hard on you for being an unpaid spokesman for Donald Trump?

(LAUGHTER)

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, I'm paid.

(LAUGHTER)

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I'm glad he said it. I'm just going to say it --

WATTERS: Very funny. I thought that was a really good monologue.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

WATTERS: That's one of your better ones.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: What? I wasn't being sarcastic. I thought it was a really good one. I would say the key to surviving my Thanksgiving is respecting your elders because, you know, during the Bush years, I got a little cocky. You know stocks were up the surge worked. And my parents, you know, are liberals and my grandfather is a communist.

GUTFELD: Really?

WATTERS: So, we're around the dinner table in, you know, 2006 or 07 and I started quoting Limbaugh. And all of a sudden, grandfather slams his fist on the table and says you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Drooling, screaming, whole table went quiet. Mom starts to clear. But he forgot he was angry. And so, the next thing you know, he's like, hey, Jesse, past the pumpkin cheesecake. But that's what's great about old people they forget why they're angry. And you just have to learn, you know. Sometimes it's good to know, you know, which bear not to poke.

GUTFELD: Is he still with us or --

WATTERS: God rest his soul.

GUTFELD: Yes, because I was wondering if he was watching.

WATTERS: If he was still here, he would not be watching The Five.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: You have a communist granddad. All right, Juan, so you're the father to two Republicans and, I believe, one liberal, am I right?

WILLIAMS: That's true.

GUTFELD: OK. So on Christmas, does the liberal get better gifts?

WILLIAMS: The liberal is my daughter.

GUTFELD: I know.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, I give them all great gifts.

GUTFELD: Do you ever end up on teams around the dinner table with your two sons and you and your daughter teaming up against them, politically?

WILLIAMS: You know, one of the things that you missed in your monologue was a lot people actually agree on things, even if they may be liberal or conservative. There's a lot that they agree on like, you know --

WATTERS: Like infrastructure.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: No, how about, like, not insulting the guy who took out Bin Laden, you know. Oh, how about --

GUTFELD: He had it coming.

WILLIAMS: He had it coming. Yeah, because what did Trump say? He was a Clinton supporter. How about not saying that you're CIA -- let's just ignore them. We have something better. We don't agree with your conclusion. Or maybe --

GUTFELD: These are liberal talking points.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. That's right. At the dinner table like you were saying. Maybe you could say, you know, a dinner table with Trump and Vladimir Putin and -- was it Kim Jong-il, you know, and you can say I just believe everything they say. It's good with me. Whatever you guys say, just past the turkey.

GUTFELD: Hmmm.

KENNEDY, CO-HOST: I think that it's impossible not to talk about politics. Not only that I think everyone wants to talk about politics. The difference on Thanksgiving, especially if you're hosting, you have to set the rules and you have to let people know don't take things personally. Like, it's OK if we disagree and you can have a competition and you can even keep score. You can have a yellow pad and a tally with the columns and hash marks, and whoever gets the best barbs in gets the biggest piece of pie. I don't have a problem with that at all. But you have to let people know not to take it personally. So when someone says something that you disagree with, don't react like it's a personal slight. And that why we have to distance ourselves from politics in this country. It's not the only thing that defines us. And politics as we all know talking about it, it can be very passionate but it could also be so much fun.

GUTFELD: Yeah. You know, Dana, no one talks politics at your place because you're too busy telling them about Jasper.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah. Dogs are the great equalizer, actually. You can always find common ground with people to talk about your pets and your love of pets. If things get really bad and no one -- you have that uncomfortable silence, you can bring up a dog. I'm actually very skilled at making sure that everyone realizes we all agree.

GUTFELD: Oh, interesting.

PERINO: Yes. I'm very good at that.

KENNEDY: You and Juan are saying the same thing. One year I had an experiment. I wanted to bring up the most uncomfortable topics that I possibly could.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow.

KENNEDY: And at that time, the two winners were, because it was 2003, O.J. Simpson, and my grandmother was very upset because a lot of people -- it was a very heated conversation. Of course, this was before the big documentary. And the other was what do you want your funeral to be like?

GUTFELD: That's nice.

KENNEDY: Yeah.

GUTFELD: So that makes politics actually -- yeah, you found something that people then revert back.

PERINO: You can also ask people like what was their best vacation of the year? And then you can talk about travel. Like, there's things to talk about --

WILLIAMS: What about -- if I was Jesse's grandfather and I said these young people, they're so idiotic. They don't know anything. Oh, let's forget -- yeah, let's forget about it. We'll go with Jesse.

GUTFELD: My solution, drink a lot of wine and play music really loud and that is the solution because then you can't hear anything.

PERINO: That's perfect.

GUTFELD: All right, they're telling me -- a Fox News alert now. We're learning that President Trump has submitted written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller in the Russian investigation. Remember that thing? For more details, we go over to John Roberts. John?

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS: Hey, good afternoon to you, Greg. I was just checking the date because this thing is pretty much been a year in negotiating. It was November 21st of 2017 that Robert Mueller's office first reached out to the president's outside legal counsel to say that he wanted to sit down interview with the president regarding the issue of Russia and collusion by the Trump campaign to throw the election and possible obstruction of justice and the firing of James Comey. After a long and torturous -- the president's attorneys this afternoon submitted a number of written answers to questions that Mueller wanted answered about Russia and collusion, only nothing to do with obstruction of justice.

In a statement, the president's attorneys, Jay Sekulow and Rudy Giuliani, said they thought that the request for information regarding obstruction of justice went too far. Rudy Giuliani saying, quote, it has been our position from the outset that much of what has been asked raises serious constitutional issues and was beyond the scope of a legitimate inquiry. This remains our position today. The president has nonetheless provided unprecedented cooperation.

The special counsel has been provided with more than 30 witnesses, 1.4 million pages of material, and now the president written responses to questions. It is time to bring this inquiry to a conclusion. Rudy Giuliani, counsel to the president. We do not know, Jesse, how many answers the president provided, but we do know that it is substantially less than the 49 questions that special counsel Robert Mueller had handed over to the president's legal team back at the beginning of March. So, we'll see where this goes.

A lot of people believe that Mueller is in the closing stages of the Russia investigation. There could be other leads that he pursues from here, but the president trying to close the door on this by providing these written answers. At the same time, by the way, another headline has emerged. The New York Times saying that earlier this year, the president asked his then White House counsel, Don McGahn, to get the Justice Department to prosecute Hillary Clinton and inspector -- former FBI director James Comey. McGahn, according to the New York Times, told the president that that would be a very bad idea, could lead to his impeachment, and refused to do it. Now, we should point out the same time that he was allegedly asking McGahn about this, the president was saying quite publicly that he thought that Comey and Clinton should be investigated and/or prosecuted. So, I'm not sure how much further this goes, but asking the special counsel to actually do it would be a significant development.

GUTFELD: All right, thanks, John. So, Dana, nothing here about obstruction, it's just about -- whatever.

PERINO: Well, so what the president decided to answer only questions on collusion and not on obstruction. And for Mueller, that might be enough. I don't know. We'll have to see. It will never be enough in the eyes of the media or for the Democrats who were about to take over on the house. So while this is a great way to try to get this off your plate before Thanksgiving so the president and the first lady can have a Thanksgiving where they hopefully don't have to talk about this, that's what they're thinking. But this is starting to wrap up. Mueller is going to sentence or going to move forward with the sentencing hearing on December 4 of Mike Flynn. There will be more information around that. So, I think after Thanksgiving while there is a lame duck session where they're going to try to get a few things done, confirm some judges in the congress. There's going to be a lot of activity in the Mueller investigation. And maybe it does wrap up by Christmas.

GUTFELD: You know what? I think this is disgusting, Jesse, because the story took away from the pardoning of the turkey yesterday.

WATTERS: There could be more pardons after this whole thing wraps up. Also, just a small correction, you said investigation, it's actually pronounced witch hunt. The investigation is silent.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: It's interesting the questions that were not answered, like you said, Dana, the -- I feel like the legal team for Trump has beaten back the obstruction inquiry, which I think it's a positive for him. You know, on the negative side, you don't know who he's interviewed, Robert Mueller. You don't know what they have. There's still could be other indictments coming down, small ballplayers, probably. But you don't know how these things could play out. I do find it interesting and John brought that up about the president wanting the investigator to go after these other players on the left. And if you think about when this whole thing started, it was supposed to pursue any Russian collusion and anything that can kind of spread out from that. But if you look at that, an honest investigation would have looked into some of the FISA abuse allegations, some of the dirty tricks that were played on the Trump campaign with regard to spies and FIA abuse --

PERINO: I think it might be in there.

WATTERS: We have not heard anything leading me to conclude that that's even been looked into at all. So, listen, I'd love a surprise. I'd love a surprise. I just don't see --

PERINO: Careful what you wish for.

WATTERS: I know. But, hopefully, everybody -- I didn't know Melania and Donald Trump talked about the special counsel investigation over Thanksgiving. That's news. Did you break some news?

PERINO: No. Did I say that?

WATTERS: Yeah, you said --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- talk about it over Thanksgiving.

PERINO: Well, I've never met them. Well, I've met him, but -- I don't know.

GUTFELD: What do you know, Dana, that you're not telling us.

PERINO: I know nothing.

GUTFELD: Oh, geez. Kennedy, will you be talking about this at your Thanksgiving dinner?

KENNEDY: I think this is actually really fun to talk about because you get to speculate what might be in the Mueller report because no one really knows.

GUTFELD: Right.

KENNEDY: At this point, hopefully, we don't have dueling memos from Adam Schiff and Devin Nunes.

WATTERS: I miss those days.

KENNEDY: We just might --

WILLIAMS: By the way, how do you spell that?

KENNEDY: Nunes?

WILLIAMS: No, Schiff.

(LAUGHTER)

KENNEDY: Juan, this is a family show.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The President of the United States would, you know, reduce himself to such juvenile behavior, Kennedy.

KENNEDY: That is so --

GUTFELD: Yeah, actually, that's new.

KENNEDY: In this day and age, I don't know what's happened to decorum.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Somebody get the fainting couch.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: It's just disgusting. But I think Jesse is absolutely right. I think there could be some surprises in here. And I hope that this investigation doesn't just tackle things that might have happened between this administration and the Russia during the campaign and afterward. I hope it sets a precedent for what we might find out in the future on some of these FISA warrant applications.

GUTFELD: Juan, what do you foresee coming out of this investigation? What do you think is going to be on the Mueller report?

WILLIAMS: Well, I was on Fifth Avenue today and I saw Trump shoot a guy. And while he was doing it, all the Trump supporters said, doesn't matter to me. No big deal. And Trump said I told you. I told you. And I think that's what he wrote in the Mueller --

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: Nothing you find, nothing you say is going to impact my base anyway so go right ahead. I'm not answering your questions --

GUTFELD: But not just the base. I mean, people -- this has been going on. This is the most prolonged rectal examine in history.

WILLIAMS: No.

GUTFELD: They're not finding anything.

WILLIAMS: What did they do on Bill Clinton? I mean, you go back on --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: -- they've had a lot. So, I mean, these things went on for five years. So, it's not the timing, although, I think it would be good to get it done because 2020 is going to be so hyperbolic and aggressive. But I must say, the idea that they can decide what they're answering, I'm not answering, is an issue because then I think people in the house now with subpoena power and the like, will feel more empowered to go at Donald Trump about obstruction. The idea that he was going to go after Jim Comey, who I believe is a Republican, Jesse, is not just --

WATTERS: This is very nonpartisan, Juan.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Anybody he doesn't like says the king is going to have their head chop off. But that is terrible -- I'm looking at authoritarian behavior --

KENNEDY: Juan, let me put this to you very quickly. Don't you think if Robert Mueller was so interested in obstruction that he would have compelled the president to testify either in writing or in person about it?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, he doesn't have that. He has to go through justice, right? He has to go through, now, Matthew Whitaker. But he used to have to go through Rosenstein and Sessions --

KENNEDY: Don't you think Rod Rosenstein would have thrown the door right open?

WILLIAMS: No. And to the contrary, I think that what you're doing is trying to play the politics. Just like what you see from Giuliani and the Trump legal team. They're understanding the politics. But they are acting in a very aggressive manner to try to determine the limits of what Mueller can do. I don't think --

KENNEDY: I think a Democratic president will think that.

GUTFELD: We have to go, Jesse.

WATTERS: Another big story, the White House is responded to today, reports that Ivanka Trump used private email to conduct official business. President Trump blasting comparisons to the Clintons server scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They weren't classified like Hillary Clinton. They weren't deleted like Hillary Clinton who'd deleted 33. She wasn't hiring. She wasn't doing anything to hide her emails. There was no server in the basement like Hillary Clinton had. You're talking about a whole different -- you're talking about all fake news. Hillary Clinton deleted 33,000 emails. She had a server in the basement. That's the real story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: The media, of course, fired up about the hypocrisy over those revelations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The arrogance, the incredible arrogance with a little measure of stupidity thinking that after watching this campaign, which she had a pretty good seat for, and then not, you know, being scrupulous about your email practices is pretty remarkable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At Trump rallies they chant, lock her up, lock her up. Who are they referring to, Hillary or Ivanka?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What she said about her, he's doing. And Hillary's emails, she's got the emails situation. He's in the middle of a constitutional crisis pretty (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: OK, another one. How many are those? Greg, fair comparison or not?

GUTFELD: Let me get to that point. This is the hypocrisy, the accusation of hypocrisy is the gamble you took, all right? In which the downside is you only face accusations of hypocrisy if you win. So think of the two options. You can go after Hillary over her email scandal and loose and never have to face the accusation of hypocrisy, or you can go after Hillary for her email scandal and win and face this silly little business. I do think that the key word here is hundreds of emails which for me is a day. So, it's like, you know, maybe there was a day or two in the transitionary period that she did it. But, I mean, generally, in that position, you go through tens of thousands of emails. So I think that it's not a fair comparison by numbers. However, we find out that there's more and she did it over a long period of time, then that's a different story.

WATTERS: And, Dana, her spokesperson said listen, less than a 100 emails were official government business. A lot of it had to do with arranging travel and logistics for her schedule and her kids.

WILLIAMS: Yoga. I think it was yoga.

WATTERS: Yeah, the wedding, right.

GUTFELD: And the grandparents pictures.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

WATTERS: This was for a six-month period of time, just at the beginning of the administration --

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop.

WATTERS: -- not for the whole four year span. Is it fair or unfair to make a comparison?

PERINO: Look, none of this is fair, OK. Like none of it is going to be fair. But can you understand why the opposition to President Trump would jump on this? Absolutely, you can understand it. So that's why you try to have -- you follow the rules so that you don't open yourself up to this problem. I do want to fact-check one thing on the president.

WATTERS: Sure.

PERINO: Said that the private server was in the basement. It was not. It was in the bathroom.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: So we have to make sure that we've got the fact straight on that.

GUTFELD: I have a bathroom in the basement, I think.

WILLIAMS: You live in an apartment.

GUTFELD: Maybe it's a bucket.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: I don't want to know what's in your basement. All right, Juan --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Can we all joined hands and say, lock her up, lock her up. I mean, this guy was out there last week saying lock her up. And then today we find out he's actually asking the White House counsel --

WATTERS: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: -- to prosecute. And now, his own daughter and his son-in-law are using a private server?

WATTERS: They aren't using a private server.

PERINO: No, they're not using. Juan, fact-check.

WILLIAMS: What you've got is -- these people engaged in an act of hypocrisy so blatant --

WATTERS: Really?

WILLIAMS: -- and obnoxious. I'm amazed that you can sit here and not say, you know, this isn't right.

WATTERS: Did Ivanka acid wash 30,000 emails under subpoena?

WILLIAMS: We don't know. Let's ask Cheryl Mills.

WATTERS: Did Ivanka take the fifth like Cheryl?

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. Instead, guess what, you don't have anybody looking at this, no FBI, nothing like that, Jesse. Instead, it's Abby Lowell, her lawyer who is telling us these things. We don't know.

KENNEDY: Oh, you mean just like Cheryl Mills when she was conveniently acting --

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying. And that's what she said. So now, why don't we apply the same medicine right here, Kennedy?

KENNEDY: We would. And so, that's like applying the same medicine to strep throat as you would to stage 4 cancer, and that's --

WILLIAMS: The media overplayed Hillary.

KENNEDY: No, here's what I would say and I will grant you this, it's really irresponsible of Ivanka Trump to do this and open herself up to this kind of criticism.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. Somebody spoke the truth on The Five.

KENNEDY: And because everyone -- after what we've been through with Hillary Clinton, everyone should be more responsible when it comes to emails. So you don't invite these kinds of comparisons, which are false comparisons. We're not talking about Hillary Clinton sending emails. And the way she tried to minimize that story was so incredibly offensive and really skirted accountability which he claimed to be taking. We're talking about her sending top secret and classified information over a private server that had very little security and almost no oversight. And then, in addition to that, deleting 30,000 emails of which we do not know the content, and then miraculously 600,000 of them show up on Anthony Weiner's laptop. I mean, the levels of irresponsibility. I am not excusing what Ivanka Trump did. I'm just saying it's not the same thing so let's stop pretending that it is.

WILLIAMS: It is the very same thing, using your private email to send out government communications --

KENNEDY: Our government communications -- all government communications --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But guess what? When you're talked about classified, that was all done subsequently. At the time, Hillary Clinton who was secretary of state said none of this --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Let's not forget that Clinton wiped the server and I'm talking also about Hillary.

WATTERS: OK. On that note, did on Obama appointed judge just give the caravan the green light to enter America? Find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The border battle intensifying after a federal judge temporarily bars the Trump administration from refusing asylum to migrants who might cross the border into the U.S. illegally. So instead of filing claims at legal ports of entry, the ruling allows migrants to apply for asylum anywhere no matter where they cross. The judge argues that this is what U.S. law requires. President Trump ripping the decision and vowing to take the fight all the way to the Supreme Court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This was an Obama judge and I'll tell you what. It's not going to happen like this anymore. Everybody that wants to sue the United States, they file their case in almost. They file their case in the ninth circuit and it means an automatic loss. No matter what you do. It's a disgrace what happens with the ninth circuit. We will win that case in the Supreme Court of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So, Kennedy, what do you make of this? The judge also saying that in the response that he got from the Trump administration, the president would have authority to simply close the southern border if he just wanted to do it on his own.

KENNEDY: Yeah, they're putting up that concertina wire and those jersey barriers. And it's very interesting, obviously, both sides are fighting for the narrative. But it just seems inappropriate to me that once again we have an immigration issue that is making its way from the bottom up through the judiciary when it really should be dictated by congress.

I really feel like congress has abdicated their responsibility. And, Jesse, earlier, you were joking about infrastructure being the issue that brings two sides together at the Thanksgiving table. These two sides really figure out what to do about immigration. They're not going to be able to have comprehensive immigration vote for people who are seeking asylum, we need to do a better job of defining that and really figuring out for those who need help, figuring out how to get that aid to people without turning this into an entitlement heavy welfare state.

I don't think that's within the purview of the United States government. It's a big complement to this nation that people want to come here and be safe and work and be free. Having said that, we do not have appropriate systems for accommodating that.

WILLIAMS: And, Jesse, I just want to come at you with some numbers here. It said --

WATTERS: Don't come at me with numbers, Williams.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: Is that scary?

WATTERS: Bring it.

WILLIAMS: All right. So 70 percent of Americans according to a poll say that people who qualify for asylum should be allowed to make their application, and only 21 percent of people in Arizona, California, Texas, New Mexico, see the caravan as any kind of threat.

WATTERS: Fake polls. I was looking for the red wave, so I don't trust polls these days, Juan. I don't know if I can believe those.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Wait, the red wave? I thought you were looking for a blue wave?

WATTERS: Well, never happened. Let me hit you with a number of my own, 500 MS-13 among the caravan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

WATTERS: That's a DHS number. They have paid informants on the inside of the caravan. So what they're going to do is they're going to roll the dice when they come seeking asylum. They're going to say if you have 500 MS-13 in the midst of a 7,000 large caravan, this judge is saying, you know what, we'll take our chances that we grant this person asylum from MS-13, then they skipped the hearing and then they go slice and dice everybody up. I'm not willing to take that risk, Juan. I'm just not. And I think the president as the commander-in-chief is interested in the safety and security of the American people.

These asylum applications have skyrocketed because the Central American countries have realized there's a little loophole in our system. You can't do this if you're Canadian. You can't do this if you're Mexican. But, if you're from Central America and you show up and you say I fear prosecution or persecution, then they will let you in. Persecution for fleeing violence or poverty, there's poverty everywhere.

There's violence everywhere. An ACLU lawyer comes and tells them what to say and then they're home free in this country. And even the local Tijuana mayor doesn't want the caravan there. The guy actually called them bums. I'll say that racist, but it can be because he's Hispanic himself.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. I think he would scrub the words from the Statue of Liberty, give us your poor, people yearning to breathe free --

WATTERS: I love the Statue of Liberty, even though it came from France.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. So Dana, it's been a rough two days here, because you've had the president pull the troops that he sent in the midst of the campaign from the border now. And now you have the judge saying people should be allowed to apply, no matter where they cross the border.

PERINO: DOD said two things. One, that the -- not all the troops are coming back. But the troops that were sent have accomplished the mission that they were supposed to set up, which is what Kennedy was just saying in terms of putting up the barriers. And they get to come home, so I guess we should be happy about that.

The issue, though, for -- on this is, to Kennedy's point, that Congress definitely has a role here. And I don't know if the administration is going to win this like they did on the -- on the --

KENNEDY: Travel ban.

PERINO: Muslim ban, the travel ban that they had to -- that they had to redo, because the statute is very clear. It says Congress is this, and Congress has this responsibility.

I don't think that the judge is being partisan here. I think that nine Kavanaughs on the Supreme Court would probably have a hard time supporting this. But could the court support something if the Congress actually does its job and fixes something? Absolutely. And I think that might need to be where the focus should lie as soon as the new Congress gets put in place.

WATTERS: and it looks like we just got a statement from Sarah Sanders, White House press secretary. It says, "This decision will open the floodgates to allowing countless illegal aliens into this country."

WILLIAMS: All right. So Greg, I wanted to put you on the spot and say --

GUTFELD: Why not? You always do.

WILLIAMS: Do you think that, at this point, given what we've seen, that maybe Trump was engaged in some fearmongering over the caravan?

GUTFELD: Hardly.

WILLIAMS: And (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with the terms?

GUTFELD: Hardly, hardly. This was a manufactured political phenomenon. The poll that you're talking about presents a naive set-up. It's really not about a present-day caravan. It's if that caravan succeeds, what it means about how many come after. If you don't stop it here, then it will never stop.

And the fact is, if you want to fix immigration, this is a thumb in the eye. And it's actually incredibly arrogant. It's an arrogant challenge to the United States. The caravan is an abuse of our system. In fact, the whole principle -- the whole principle of a caravan is precisely to overwhelm a system that's already under stress.

So these activists look and go, "These guys are having problems. We could actually rush -- rush the border, because they can't handle it. and we make them look bad."

So if you actually are saying, you know, "Look, this sucks. This is not a good thing," you are -- you are seen as bigoted or as racist or you hate people.

Think if you apply this phenomenon to arenas beyond your border. You're waiting in line at the DMV for an hour, but 100 people rush in. Because they rush in and overwhelm the system, you lose your space, and somehow maybe 10 percent of them get ahead of you.

That's what this is. It's arrogant. It's meant to overwhelm and divide and anger people. That's why it's wrong.

WILLIAMS: So I think -- I thought you changed your argument, because I thought, remember they were diseased. They were terrorists. They were Middle Eastern terrorists. They were MS-13.

GUTFELD: I never said they were diseased. You're putting words in my mouth, Juan.

WILLIAMS: This is the -- you said was coming, and I just thought --

GUTFELD: That was not my argument. That was not my argument. My argument has always been about process, due process.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. Well, good. OK.

GUTFELD: You should see, because I've said it.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, no. I said --

GUTFELD: You're changing my opinion right now.

WILLIAMS: I think the argument that was being put forward by the administration was --

GUTFELD: I'm putting forth a different argument.

WILLIAMS: -- are invading America, not overwhelming the immigration system.

GUTFELD: It is actually an assault on a system.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's fine. OK.

GUTFELD: We don't -- OK, thank you.

WILLIAMS: Were Dem -- I'm sorry.

KENNEDY: No, no, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: All right. Are Democrats heading for a major divide? The revolt against Nancy Pelosi is just one of the looming problems. That's next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Kevin.

GUTFELD: What about Kevin?

PERINO: Oh, my gosh. That was a commercial break flub. OK, we were talking about someone named Kevin.

GUTFELD: Don't be so fakey.

PERINO: Now the real segment. I'm so sorry. I'm going to get fired again.

Democrats may have taken back the House, but the party is apparently now splintering at three key issues.

WATTERS: I'm going to take over. All right. For 16 House Democrats who signed a letter vowing to oppose Nancy Pelosi as their next speaker.

This as a new poll says 40 percent of Democrats would like to see someone other than Pelosi assuming the leadership role. Meanwhile, the embattled Democratic leaders criticizing those in their own party who want to investigate the Trump administration, telling The New York Times, quote, "Yes, on the left there is a Pound of Flesh Club." Greg is a member of that, I think. "And they just want to do to them what they did to us. That's not who we are. Go get somebody else if that's who you want."

And then there are progressives like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She is now supporting a campaign to primary incumbent establishment Democrats to move the party further left.

Dana, have you recovered?

PERINO: Almost. I'm sorry. It was just, like, one of those things that happened. But Jesse, you read that very well.

WATTERS: Thank you very much.

PERINO: It was like your first -- like, you didn't even, like --

WATTERS: I didn't skip. But I wanted to ask you. There's some deal now going on?

PERINO: OK. So I'll do the breaking news. This has happened in this hour. Marcia Fudge, who's a congresswoman from Ohio, she had said she was going to wait until after Thanksgiving to announce her decision on whether she would challenge Pelosi for the speakership. Apparently she has. Remember, they had their meeting last week in her office?

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: And Marcia Fudge has ow decided she is not going to do that. This is according to reports. And she is going to accept Pelosi's suggestion that Marcia Fudge head up a subcommittee on elections.

WATTERS: And you predicted this would happen.

PERINO: I did. Well, all I said was that if you raise your hand and say, "I might challenge you, but" -- you might be able to, like, get a bridge in your district or something. Or more work. So --

KENNEDY: It's the Murkowski rule.

PERINO: It is.

KENNEDY: It's what Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski have been doing in the Senate for two years now. And now smart Democrats have figured that out. "If I make a bunch of noise and make Nancy Pelosi just scared enough that I get something out of it but don't really hurt her, it benefits me in the long term. It also raises the profile." No one would have known the name Tim Ryan if he hadn't have challenged her --

PERINO: That's true.

KENNEDY: -- for leadership two years ago.

PERINO: Seth Moulton, too, up in Massachusetts.

WATTERS: Will this work at FOX? Should I make more noise? Should I be complaining more?

PERINO: Make more noise.

GUTFELD: Yes, that really works at FOX.

WATTERS: I'll keep my head down. Enough said.

PERINO: Greg, would you like to comment on anything that just happened?

GUTFELD: Well, I think there's going to be a lot of interesting conflicts coming up for the Democratic Party. For example, you have a president who actually does like to compromise, because if it leads to a deal, which he loves, he will compromise.

So the problem is, will Democrats refuse to cooperate with a leader who might give them what they want, because they've been calling him Hitler Junior for two years? And I think the Dems are going to look really bad if they slap down an outstretched hand, which I think Trump might do.

The other thing, too, is I think the real battle for smart Democrats in 2020 is in identity politics. They have an opportunity to craft a new message of unity that targets the healing of divisions. Within their party had outside their party. It's the antithesis to modern leftism, the identity politics and the oppression versus oppressed idea. But I think it would -- I think it would resonate especially now.

PERINO: But we do have an issue that I want to talk about which is the new representative-elect, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC.

GUTFELD: AOC.

PERINO: Yes, AOC. She is suggesting, Jesse, that maybe she'll give her full support to a new national campaign to mount primaries to sort of moderate Democrats so that you get even more progressives to win in those districts.

WATTERS: She's like the left-wing Steve Bannon. Just running around the country and primarying moderate Democrats. That's going to be a big headache for the national party, and I think Nancy Pelosi has a lot of work to do reining this person in. I mean, this is like a Tea Party on the left now. You're going to go out and maybe nominate some kooky left-wingers that can get out of the primary, and they're going to get shredded in the general.

And we saw Tea Party Republican candidates go down in flames, because they weren't ready for prime time in the Senate races in the last decade. But you know, I think Pelosi has got a firm grip, and she'll be fine.

Pelosi said some things I even agree with, Dana. She says, "I don't think we should be running on abolishing ICE and impeachment, especially in competitive House districts. We're going to lose those if we do that." And she also said on the Mueller probe, if Mueller comes out with something that only the Democrats like and it's not convincing to Republicans to say, "You know what? This is impeachable," then they shouldn't go for impeachment, and I agree with that.

PERINO: All right. Juan, I'll give you the last word.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think there's lots of very interesting politics here, and much of it has to do with the Congressional Black Caucus. I'm just making something that's plain to the viewer who's seen a picture of Marcia Fudge. She's black.

And nobody --

KENNEDY: She used to chair that caucus.

WILLIAMS: Right. But nobody in the Congressional Black Caucus signed that letter put forward by Tim Ryan of Ohio. And of course, both Ryan and Fudge are from Ohio. They know each other very well.

And the second thing to say is there is no candidate, right, at this moment running against Nancy Pelosi. We cited a poll number at the top of the segment saying 40 percent of the caucus says, "I would like to have somebody else." Well, the vote is next week and guess what? There's 40 percent who say, "We want to Nancy Pelosi."

And guess what? You talk to the people in the American unions. You talk to people in terms of the churches in this country. You talk to people who are the organizers in this country, especially people involved with health care, the No. 1 issue in the midterms, and they all say Nancy Pelosi is one of the greatest speakers of the House ever.

But if you talk to Republicans, this is kind of odd. Donald Trump says he's going to help her get votes if necessary. He wants her to be speaker. I don't understand. I think it's Machiavellian. But nonetheless, Republicans love beating up on Nancy Pelosi.

KENNEDY: Which is why --

PERINO: She showed them. They won 40 seats. So she did a good job for her side.

GUTFELD: You read this?

PERINO: All right. Chipotle facing backlash after firing a manager seen in this video. Over 10 million people have viewed that clip. But now the restaurant is forced -- the restaurant chain is forced to make a big apology. And we've got the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KENNEDY: Chipotle cooking up a controversy, and it has nothing to do with a microbial colon (ph). The chain now apologizing after firing a manager who refused to serve a group of black customers. As you can see in the video that has now been viewed by over 10 million people, the manager insisted the group of men pay before they get their food. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what we got to do? What we got to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You never have money when you come in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We never have money.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not going to make food unless you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that? What do you mean? Hold on. Hold on, hold on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: Oh, mercy. Critics cited racism, but it turns out there's more to this story than was originally reported, of course.

The manager says two of them skipped out on their bill just days before the dispute, and one of the men had even bragged about ordering and not paying before in this post from three years ago, writing, quote, "Dine and dash is forever interesting." That was just one of the many quotes that he had from his Twitter. He also wrote, "Ay man, I think Chipotle catching up to us, fam. Should we change locations?" And this July, he tweeted, "I caught myself taking the Chipotle tabasco sauce the other day. LOL. Not because I needed it, but because it felt so natural to me."

What's a manager to do here, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think you should go by the rules. And I think that's what we saw in the Starbucks case and now this case. Because these guys are thieves. Right? So you shouldn't encourage people to be stealing from your business. That's ridiculous.

But you've got to have, I guess, a protocol or a routine, the way that you handled it. She handled it sort of ad hoc, and that's what got her in trouble. And I'm so glad that Chipotle has come back now and said, "Hey, listen, obviously, these guys were thieves, and we are going to back up our employee, who was protecting the business."

But the problem is you should know if you're the manager how to deal with this. Because you couldn't get locked into some racial dispute that really is not relevant to this discussion.

KENNEDY: I agree -- Greg.

GUTFELD: In this world of social media, nuance and patience is evil. Social media now forces companies to act immediately because they're -- the fear of being dragged online by large groups. So they'll crush an employee the moment they can do that.

KENNEDY: And they did. They fired her.

GUTFELD: Companies are run by -- companies that are run by their P.R. and H.R. will cut you loose, despite -- well before facts coming in. And because they're just -- they're more terrified of the Twitter mob than anything else. And I think corporate virtue signaling is actually worse than personal virtue signaling, because they don't account for facts, only for appearance. And as you said, life isn't always what it seems.

The real jerks, not just Chipotle, but the media. There were tabloids. There was one tabloid headline that said Chipotle may rehire a manager who refused serving black men. That was what they put on Twitter. How screwed up is it? I almost went there. They chose cliques over clarity, and they smear an innocent woman. And I won't say who the tabloid is, because they're in the building.

KENNEDY: Oh, mercy. So Dana, is there -- is there backlash for Chipotle here? And do they internalize this?

PERINO: This is what I would do, so when you hire somebody as a manager, you expect them to manage. Meaning that they should use their own brain, and they should figure out how to handle a situation so that you don't have to. That's why you hire a manager. There's a job -- there's a shortage of workers in America. She obviously has proven that she can manage.

GUTFELD; She was helping the company.

PERINO: She dealt with the situation very well. Whoever needs to hire a good manager, don't let Chipotle rehire her. You should hire her.

KENNEDY: Yes, she was look -- she said she was looking out for her team and there were, you know, people working behind her who were clearly frustrated.

KENNEDY: Jesse.

WATTERS: Well, fake news travels really fast. This had 10 million views on the Internet, and the truth only has a few, because no one is going to see that after-the-fact. They're just going to think this is a racist situation, and then they're going to go along with the rest of their day.

I feel bad, because I dined and ditched one time out in Long Island in high school.

GUTFELD: Of course you did.

KENNEDY: Last week?

WATTERS: No. In high school. And I didn't even know what I was getting myself into. My buddy wanted to do it. And I think he was paying. So I didn't really dine and ditch. I just kind of ditched, and I dined for free, because he was going to pay for it.

We ran out of the restaurant, and they chased us out. We got in the car, and we sped off. And the poor waitress didn't get the tip. So I feel bad, and I'm sorry --

PERINO: You should go back there and give her a tip this weekend.

WATTERS: -- to the Barefoot Peddler out in Long island.

KENNEDY: Oh, wow, you even named the restaurant.

WATTERS: Yes. Did I just admit to committing a crime?

GUTFELD: Yes, you did.

KENNEDY: Thank God.

GUTFELD: Turn yourself in.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Take a selfie.

KENNEDY: Well, guess what's up next? "One More Thing." Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Well, "One More Thing" -- Jesse.

WATTERS: All right. Special edition of "Mom Texts."

PERINO: Good.

WATTERS: All right, this one is a doozy. "Jesse, any political arena is fraught with name-calling, as well as wretched accusations by all sorts of players but not by the president of the United States. To normalize this behavior, calling a woman horse face, demeans you and makes you appear crass and awful and also misogynistic, as well as off the mark. Catch yourself before you fall over the edge of what's right, Jesse."

GREG: Oh! That's meaningful.

WATTERS: Here's another one. "How do we all seek a more civil discourse if you continue to fan the flames?" Yikes.

KENNEDY: Little fire bug there.

WATTERS: Yes. And "You need to be better informed regarding issues of sensible gun control measures."

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

WATTERS: "Stop making sweeping and generalized and inaccurate statements about what Democrats are seeking. Note those who won the election on this issue, just as reported by Dana."

PERINO: Thank you, Mom.

WATTERS: Lastly, "The caravan is real, Jesse. The point others were making was that Trump only stoked caravan fear for election purposes! He hasn't mentioned it since!"

All right, Mom. Hey, Mom, I'm on "Hannity."

WILLIAMS: I wonder why.

WATTERS: Be sure to watch that.

PERINO: -- more material for you.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: Dana.

PERINO: OK, so one of the best people at FOX News behind the scenes as a producer named Eldad Yaron (ph). And we all love Eldad (ph). But we have to celebrate his son today, because Ariel Yaron (ph) is ten years old, and he and his team at the Prospect Park Youth Running Club in Brooklyn won the gold medal at the U.S. Track and Field Association regional championship over the weekend.

The club was founded ten years ago by Coach Sean Rice. It's run by him along with an all-volunteer staff. And the team now advances to compete in the Junior Olympics Cross-Country National Championship --

WATTERS: Wow.

PERINO: -- in Reno, Nevada, next month. It's the most prestigious youth cross-country competition in the world. He only started running when he was eight years old. I've been watching his progress on Instagram. I talked to Eldad (ph) about it. Obviously, Eldad (ph) is very proud, but so is everybody at FOX News. Go, Ariel (ph).

WATTERS: Go, Ariel.

WILLIAMS: That was great.

GUTFELD: It's not that great. It's running.

WATTERS: It's faster than you, Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, I'm not -- I'm not trying to win anything, Jesse.

WATTERS: Clearly.

GUTFELD: Do I have a thing I throw to?

GRAPHIC: Greg's Fine Wine News

GUTFELD: "Greg's Fine Wine News." Hey, if you want me to do a "One More Thing," just send me a bottle of wine and name it after -- name it after me. This is from Che Rene. Che Rene Vineyard in New York City. It's a blend of different grapes, French and American hybrid, kind of a pinot noir. I always have a problem saying that. Thank you guys. That's -- they're in, I think, Slate Hill, New York.

All right. Juan.

WILLIAMS: All right. So on Thanksgiving, it's a tradition for many families to throw around a football. You know that. Well, it looked like a souped-up pickup game on TV last night, but it was an NFL game. Everyone was running deep, throwing deep. Interceptions, fumbles.

KENNEDY: Amazing.

WILLIAMS: So entertaining. In fact, it was historic, 105 points, the third highest scoring game in history. First time two teams scored over 50, and of course, one team scored over 50 and lost. But for fans, it was football heaven.

GUTFELD: Kennedy.

KENNEDY: Great game. So euphemisms are dead. Arthur Posey has proven this in New Orleans. He went into a restaurant and said, "You all are about to close right now, because I'm about to get a bomb and blow this place up." He was not talking about explosives. He was talking about relieving yourself in the bathroom.

So parents, a word to the wise. Mom, don't say you're going to drop kids off at the pool, because someone will call CPS. And if you say you're taking the Browns to the Super Bowl, you will be arrested -- for lying.

WATTERS: Oh.

GUTFELD: Set your DVRs and never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next. Hello, Bret.

KENNEDY: Hi, Bret.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Potty stories are the best. Thank you. Thanks, Greg.

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