Police report on Gray's death won't be released to public

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 30, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly
Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Melissa Francis and Greg
Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is The Five.

Freddie Gray protests have spread across the country. They stretch coast to
coast last night. A very large one is now underway in both Baltimore and
Philadelphia. Earlier, the mayor of Baltimore tried to calm the public by
vowing justice will be served and invoked race while doing so.


Gray. Believe you me we will get justice. If we're going to do it because
we're going to work together because, if with the nation watching, three
black women at three different levels can't get justice and healing for
this community, you tell me where we're going to get it in our country.


GUILFOYLE: Today, police turned over the findings of their investigation to
the state Attorney General's Office. Prosecutors will now determine whether
to charge the six officers suspended in the case. Freddie Gray suffered a
critical spine injury on April 12th during his arrest. He died a week
later. The question is, did he injure himself after being placed inside
that van or was he injured by police? According to the Washington Post, a
prisoner inside the vehicle told investigators he could hear Gray banging
against the walls, apparently trying to hurt himself. A family member of
one of the officers involved says police were not to blame.


DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW ANCHOR: The person that you are directly
related to is --


LEMON: Is African-American.


LEMON: What did he say happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He believes that whatever happened to Mr. Gray
happened before he was transported.

LEMON: Did he hear screaming? Was he in the back -- going in the back going
crazy maybe and yelling and moving around?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was -- he was irate and he was cursing, he was
yelling and he was kicking. And that's what was heard. Six officers did not
injure this man. Six officers didn't put him in the hospital.


GUILFOYLE: But some, like Dr. Siegel said it wouldn't have been physically
possible for Gray to have injured himself in that manner.


DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS MEDICAL A-TEAM: You could sustain a brain injury
and you could get a head injury that way, you could even get a neck injury
but let me be clear, there's no way that you could sever your spine by
bashing your head against the wall or the side of a car or anything like
that. That is not going to be to end up being the cause of a severed spine
in this case.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So some conflicting opinions already, but we don't know
exactly what happened. Perhaps, there should be cameras inside custody and
a transport vans as well given these types of situations. Juan, what's your

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know, we don't know. I mean,
that's the fact, right? But what you clearly see is that people are trying
to figure out what's going on and I think that's worthwhile. Now, I don't
understand why it's the case that the report that's supposed to be issued
tomorrow is not going to be public. Apparently, it's going to the state's
attorney, she is the black woman when they are talking about the three
black women --


WILLIAMS: She's talking about Loretta Lynch, the attorney general, Ms.
Mosby -- Marilyn Mosby who is the state's attorney and the mayor Stephanie
Rawlings-Blake. But, you know, to me -- even that is not going to please
some of the people who we see here in the streets. I mean, I've heard
already people putting town Loretta Lynch, because she's pro death penalty,
pro police. She's opposing to legalization of marijuana -- so if people
want to find something they're going to find something.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Eric.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So new news came out today that there
is, in fact, a fourth van stop that they hadn't known about before, because
that report was turned over today, a day early. Day earlier than they said
they were going to turn it over, the police was turning it over. And also,
that there was a head -- there was a head injury on Freddie Gray that was
consistent with a bolt inside the back of the van.


BOLLING: So -- again, I don't know either, one -- no one knows what really
happened, the only time they will really know is when, when the autopsy
report is released. I can't figure out why they wouldn't get that to that
right away. They should really have released an autopsy report -- at least
get a cause of death and now we can start working with the rest. I don't
know if it's self-inflicted in the back of the van. I don't know if there
was a rough ride by the cop who is driving the van. I don't know if the
cops administered some -- you know, street justice. I don't know. I don't
one knows. So a protesting and the rioting and the burning of buildings are
very much premature and the response is very much premature. We should wait
and find out what happened in that autopsy and then find out what the state
-- the prosecution is going to do if they're going to go after --


BOLLING: The cops or not.

GUILFOYLE: Premature aside, I mean, there -- I don't think there is any
appropriate time to be burning and rioting, causing physical injury to
others or to property, regardless of what the investigation -- you know,
results in. Depending on what we find out.

MELISSA FRANCIS, GUEST CO-HOST: No, absolutely. I mean,
you look at what's going on in the meantime and there are so many reports
out there from people in the area who say, you've got the guy Liam Flynn,
this is guy who owns an Irish bar in the area where the rioting is going on
and he says, look, this is April, I have to pay for my permits this month,
I have to pay my taxes, I have to make payroll. We have the curfew going
on. I'm going to lose money. You know, they interviewed somebody else who
is down there, who cleans houses, she said the buses aren't stopping on my
block because they don't feel safe. So I'm paying for taxis to go to work,
because I'm going to fired if I don't show up, I'm losing money. You know
they have guys that were working on that construction site that got burned
down which was going to have 60 units of affordable housing. They are
saying no one will look me in the eye, and I may not have a place to go to
work anymore. I mean, there are lot of people, regular people, working
people like you would see out there marching, who are losing their
livelihood right now as we sit -- we don't know even know what actually

GUILFOYLE: Right. And that -- that's the disturbing aspect of it, because
this is a city and community that was already in struggle. You know, that
they already had these kind of problems when this is just really just
exacerbated the situation.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, I've been thinking about my
language that I've used this week and that may be I've been offending a lot
of people and I was thinking that maybe it's time I changed my language.
Instead of maybe calling them thugs, I should call them undocumented
transgressors (ph), would that be better? Or maybe law compromisers and I
don't think looter is a fair word to use, maybe property deleter (ph) or
wealth spreader or goods transfer operator. I don't know. What three words
do networks and commentators and activists hates? Wait and see. Because
wait and see is boring but assuming the worst is electrifying. By refusing
to wait and see and instead running with rumor or half-stories, we end up
with these horrible, horrible events all over from Ferguson, now to
Baltimore. We -- as everybody has said, we don't know and the media when we
push things that we don't know but want to be true, we are complicit in all
of this, in this violence, because we are fanning the flames. We need to
declare a state of emergency on the media.

BOLLING: Is there -- if does anyone have -- K.G., do you have a credible
reason, logically reason why they wouldn't release an autopsy report?

GUILFOYLE: Well, perhaps they are worried about it fanning the flames, just
already so much discontent. I mean, I think the public has a right to know
whatever the truth is, because to be quite honest, it's like it's going to
leak out --

BOLLING: Cause of death.

GUILFOYLE: Anyway --

BOLLING: Cause of death will clean up a lot of answers as to who is --
right. Rioting is never justified. But protesting might be, or getting
statements -- I think there are six cops involved in this and only five
have given a statement.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: I think there's still cop out there who -- the driver of the van
if I'm not mistaken.

GUILFOYLE: The driver of has it. Yeah.

BOLLING: He hasn't even given a statement yet. So, if people are agitated,
if people are ticked off that they're not getting what -- appears to be
justice in their mind and you have an autopsy report that confirms
everything that they believe in, then they may have a right to be lining
the streets like that, but if it's a different case completely. Self-
inflicted, happened when he hit the bolt then maybe that would dissipate
some of this.

GUILFOYLE: But there could be multiple things that happened. They're going
to have to do a whole -- you know, forensic examination, do the autopsy and
determine the manner and cause of death. They're also going to have to see
whether or not maybe the bolt in the head is directly related, right?

BOLLING: But that's what the --

GUILFOYLE: Approximate cause --

BOLLING: Of cause of death --

GUILFOYLE: Of the cause of death or could be another injury.

FRANCIS: But if you can see, there are so many reasons. I mean, if you --
so if you have -- if you hurt the back of your head and you have been hit
with a bolt and then they could say, did someone shove his head in the bolt
or was he having an asthma attack and - you know, (inaudible). I don't
think that we're -- we always want but, you mean, you talk about the media,
we always want the smoking gun, the definitive answer. This seems like one
of those cases where we're probably not going to get it.

WILLIAMS: But we don't know. But let me just say, I think we're in the
weeds in this conversation here. Because to me, one thing that I really am
upset about to -- with the media is, I don't think that what happened with
the kids who got out of school, Douglas High School and started ripping and
roaring and tearing up the place, had anything to do with Freddie Gray
except --


WILLIAMS: That it was an excuse for bad behavior.


WILLIAMS: And to break into a store and looting and those people it seems
to me are -- you know, it was criminal behavior, I'm glad that mom was
smacking that kid around.


WILLIAMS: OK. But the reason that I think we have the picture of the people
out here in Baltimore and Philadelphia, in New York last night, has to do
with this wider perception that you know what? If you are poor, black,
Hispanic in America, and you're living this in those communities, the cops
come in and they beat up or they push you around and nobody ever says, hey,
that's not right. So Freddie Gray, he's no angel, this guy was not only
selling drugs apparently, he was using drugs had done two years, right? But
-- is it -- the question is, OK, can -- it does mean that the cops have the
right to bead up Freddie Gray? I don't think so.

GUTFELD: Well, we don't -- again, we don't know. And --

GUILFOYLE: Well, no.

GUTFELD: The thing that scares me is the truth --


GUTFELD: Truth is always going to be the casualty, if you are concerned
about the fear of rioting or the fear of the mob. That mentality always
argues against -- because if the truth is unpopular, you know you are going
to have a riot, so then that's going to play upon the decisions you make --

WILLIAMS: But wait --

GUTFELD: And that's the scary part.

WILLIAMS: But wait a second. You're -- conservatives, libertarians, it
seems to me should -- all together concerted in their opposition to the
force of government, exercised with some excessive element.

BOLLING: What -- are you talking about? You are talking about the police
exercise --


BOLLING: Excess force on Freddie Gray? --

WILLIAMS: No, anybody. But in general --

BOLLING: You know, your last comment you had me. You had me your -- I was
agreeing with you 100 percent when you said the kids they got out, they
were ---


BOLLING: They were concerned --


BOLLING: Until you flipped it at the very end --


BOLLING: Saying you had something to do with -- we brought it back to
Freddie Gray, again.

WILLIAMS: No. No. No. --

BOLLING: Juan --

WILLIAMS: Not the kids. --

BOLLING: Are you not saying --

WILLIAMS: The people marching now.

BOLLING: Right. But -- what they're -- they're marching about income
inequality and opportunity --

WILLIAMS: You think that's it?

BOLLING: They're not marching about --

WILLIAMS: Is that Gray?

BOLLING: Freddie Gray.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I thought they were marching about police -- what they
consider to be police brutality.

BOLLING: Didn't you just say they're using the Freddie Gray incident, get
out of there --

WILLIAMS: No. Those are the kids.

BOLLING: But, what are these people doing? --

WILLIAMS: No. I think this is much more than a bunch of high school kids, I
tell you that.

BOLLING: I don't know, Juan. It seems like -- it seems like they're --
they're protesting their -- the lack of opportunity in the, in the African-
American community.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you think that? OK.

BOLLING: The lack of -- look, the income levels between black and white in
Baltimore alone, 60,000 for with white families, 32,000 for African-
American families. I think that's where a lot of the agitation and a lot of
anger --

GUTFELD: But -- but the agitation should be directed towards liberal
progressive governments of the last four decades.

BOLLING: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Now, that's where the conversation is --

GUILFOYLE: That ruined the city --

BOLLING: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: Like you said yesterday, yeah.

WILLIAMS: You know, I -- I always say -- you know, we always joke about my
son's being Republicans, but I think the reason they're Republicans is,
they grew up in the District of Columbia under democratic mayors,
democratic city council, democratic school board and absolute dysfunction
and Marion Barry going around, you know, with --

GUTFELD: But also --

WILLIAMS: . drugs, but --

GUTFELD: You were also a good parent, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, that doesn't matter -- I hope that -- that's not the
reason. But I'm just saying, you know, this is a real conversation about
whether or not you have failed liberal policy. I think it goes a little bit
far in some of the Republican blogs. I remember Spiro Agnew, who was the
governor of Maryland, when they had riots in the '60s --


WILLIAMS: And Pete Wilson out in California. But --


WILLIAMS: There's no getting away from, the fact that certainly these
Democrats didn't help the very poor in the poorest areas and poorest black
and Hispanic.

GUILFOYLE: But -- why aren't they processing them?

WILLIAMS: Well, good point.

GUILFOYLE: Why aren't they processing their failed policies and the
destruction of cities, because of these liberal policies? I don't know --
some idea. All right, coming up on The Five, live reports from the ground
in Baltimore, Geraldo Rivera, Leland Vittert and Mike Tobin, stay tuned.


BOLLING: Why did the mayor of Baltimore instruct her city's police force to
stand down on Monday night? Our Leland Vittert tried to get answers
directly from the mayor before Al Sharpton's press conference. Watch what


LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS CORRRESPONDENT: What do you have to say to the
businesses that are looted, because of your order to stand down?

AL SHAPRTON, MSNBC HOST: Can you excuse me one minute.

VITTERT: You don't have anything to say?

SHAPRTON: Can you --

VITTERT: Nothing to say to business owners? What about to the police who
were injured?


VITTER: I'm sorry -- hey, excuse me. Hey. Why -- why can't we ask
questions? We can't ask questions?

SHARPTON: You can --

VITTERT: You are a public official and we can't ask questions?

SHARPTON: You will have the opportunity --

VITTERT: I can ask questions?


VITTERT: And you're going to -- and you will answer them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse us. Excuse us.

VITTERT: You will answer our questions then now? Then you will answer our

SHARPTON: At the press conference, we will answer all questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse us. Excuse us. Excuse us.

SHARPTON: Relax. Relax

VITTERT: Whoa. Whoa. Well, you'll push members of the media but you won't
protect businesses from looting, sir?


BOLLING: And Leland joins us now. Leland, did you ever get any answers?

VITTERT: Nope. And shockingly enough, the press conference that was
promised didn't happen. It was a community event that we showed up at, we
figured out the mayor was going to be there and during the community event
a lot of folks spoke on and on, they had a big day and those kinds of
things. And during one of the periods that the reverend was up there with a
lot of folks talking, the mayor slipped out the back with her security
details so -- there you go.

BOLLING: So -- you got pushed, Leland. You got pushed by one of the mayor's
staff, one of the Sharpton's staff by Sharpton himself?

VITTERT: Got pushed by -- pushed and shoved by a lot of people. You know,
when you're in one of those kinds of situations, I was just focused on
trying to ask the mayor some questions. She is a public official. We were
causing her no harm. We certainly weren't a threat to anyone at that moment
there, as if it was going on. My only interest was trying to ask a public
official about a story that we had done and I thought it was a legitimate
question. And the pushing and shoving just sort to began as she kept
pushing her way past us and you saw Reverend Al, try to push his way past
me as well and then it was just security guards that it kind of got into it
with not only me and sort of threw me to the side. Some of the Baltimore
police departments -- finest, who look after the mayor, but then also you
had the guys being pushed and shoved around not only me, but also some of
the folks who look after us out here.

WILLIAMS: Hey, Leland. I don't understand. Why was she deferring to Al
Sharpton? She's the mayor.

VITTERT: Well, that's really the stunning question. And I'm -- I'm guessing
this is, Juan, is that you have a public official here deferring to Al
Sharpton, and Al Sharpton being more than happy to insert himself into this
situation. It had nothing to do with the good reverend. It all it had to do
with was a public official answering some very simple questions. Why did
you order police to let folks loot these stores and ruin the livelihoods of
so many of her residents, number one. Number two, why did you order police
officers to not protect themselves and fire back with beanbag rounds and
rubber bullets and those kinds of things? Why did you order police officers
to retreat? And also, why did you order police officers not to wear the
appropriate protective gear and a lot of them ended up getting hurt. I
talked to officers who said, my friends got hurt as a direct result of
these orders. Those are questions that a public official should be simply
be willing to -- at least answer, even if she doesn't have to -- have a
good answer, maybe, I'm sorry or I was wrong or I'll learn from this or
whatever it may be, but it was pretty stunning.

FRANCIS: Leland, I'm confused. Why was it that Al Sharpton was the one that
was getting to decide whether or not you got to ask her question? I mean,
I'm under the impression that he is a television host, somewhere.

GUTFELD: Where did you get that impression?

FRANCIS: You are with the media since when I'm in. I've never been to a
press conference where there is another anchor whose up there, who's
deciding whether or not the other news people are allowed to ask questions
or not. I mean, in what capacity was he introduced while he was there and
was he taking the night off from his duties at MSNBC?

VITTERT: I have no idea. I have been out -- out here on the street for the
past four days or so, so have no idea what the good reverend has been doing
on television. But, I can tell you we, we heard the mayor was going to be
there and that's the reason we showed up was to interview the mayor. And we
kind of had this inkling that she may not be too keen to answer questions
so, before the event got started, we kind of staked out, we figured out
where she was coming from with the help of some folks and that's when we
kind of -- we walked up and when to her. Why Al Sharpton decided to insert
himself in this? I'm not really sure. The event later, he took center stage
and talked about a lot of things and offered prayers and promises of coming
to fight for justice here. It seemed to be his event that she showed up at,
but why he chose to do that, I -- I can't answer.

GUTFELD: We act as if -- as if we're surprised that --


GUTFELD: Reverend Al inserted himself into a controversy. He -- he would
insert himself into anything if it meant get -- I better stop there.

BOLLING: He's a victim though.


BOLLING: All right. We're going to leave you right there, Leland. Thank you
very much. Another tense night in Baltimore and another tense encounter
between Geraldo Rivera and the same protester who got in his face Tuesday
night. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it to my face.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm agitating who?

RIVERA: You are agitating me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who am I -- and what -- who the (beep) cares about with,
whether or not I'm agitating you.

RIVERA: I see here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you see?

RIVERA: I see it. You're agitating --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you see?

RIVERA: A kid is getting his face in my face.


RIVERA: And he's trying to stop me from doing my job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in your face and I'm telling white America stop not
giving a damn about black people.


BOLLING: Gerald, you are with another group that is -- are, are you in the
moved again? Are you getting pushed out of an area again, Geraldo?


RIVERA: No, Eric, I'm with the Knick all star, Carmelo Anthony and which in
400 and 500 demonstrators --

CROWD: We want peace.

RIVERA: Chanting, "We want justice, we want peace." Carmelo, can you tell
the audience, we're live, why are you here?

is where I grew up in these streets. So I feel, I feel the youth's pain
but, you know I'm here for a peaceful protest. This is a peaceful march.
You know, we kind of got a bad connotation about what's going right now
with our youth. I have been trying to get a hold of them, just talk to
them, you know keep them positive right now, keep them, keep them uplifted.
They need some guidance man, so I had to come back and at least show my
face and just be part of the community.

RIVERA: And what does your presence mean to these young people?

ANTHONY: I was -- I was one of them, so they know that. So they can see
anybody else and when I come back home it's a different type of love and a
different feeling. They feel like it's hope again when they see somebody
like me who was once one of them come back and be a part of this.

RIVERA: That sounds great. And Mr. Simmons, Russell, the hip hop mogul, why
are you here?


RIVERA: I'm sorry, you look just like him. So Kevin, why are you here?

talked to the phone and saw everything going down we said, this is our
city, it's part of us, we have to come back, we want people to protest in
peace. We don't want people to protest and tear the city down. We want to
lift the city up. So we are going to rebuild Baltimore brick by brick, town
by town, street by street. That's our job (ph).

RIVERA: OK. All right, Eric, this is a demonstration that has been going on
for several miles, you can tell it's quite a workout, it started in West
Baltimore at the CVS, the burned out CVS. And now they are marching -- are
you OK? Now they are marching to city hall. Now, the one thing, Eric, you
and I may disagree on, I heard Leland's report. The thing about -- the
thing about Al Sharpton, however, you may hold him in low regard, he is by
many of these folks considered, the leading civil rights speaker in the
country today. However, obnoxious you may consider him, back to you, Eric.

BOLLING: All right. K.G. has a question.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Geraldo, so, take us through last night? I mean, how do
you feel in general, you're being received? You had that one altercation
with the same guy. But other than that, have people been receptive to the
point that you are there trying to cover the story and listen to what they
have to say.

RIVERA: I'm, I'm sorry, you're - you're breaking up there.

BOLLING: Geraldo --


BOLLING: How are you being --


GUTFELD: He's always like that.

BOLLING: How are you being received right now? Are you -- did they realize
you're there to cover the story, get the word out?


RIVERA: Some of these -- real folks. How do you feel about me being here,
just close to me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all about justice for Freddie Gray.

CROWD: We want peace.

RIVERA: And tell me what justice will mean to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Freddie Gray.

RIVERA: Does that mean the policemen have to be indicted?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love Baltimore, we want peace.

RIVERA: Tell me why -- you are here now. Why are you here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I want justice. I mean, we want everybody to be
treated equally. I want everybody to be exactly treated the same way. If it
was somebody of any color that was treated the way Freddie Gray was
treated, then I would want him to have justice the same way.

RIVERA: And what happens if the police are not indicted? You know they're
saying now, that maybe the injury was self-inflicted or an injury -- an

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, it could have been an accident --

CROWD: We want peace.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until we get the facts out there, we want, we want to
know them. We want transparency.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know. We want transparency for everybody to see what
exactly what happened.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then -- then everybody can make their own decisions. But
right now, nobody knows anything.


RIVERA: Well, they know that they made a second stop and that police van
that was unpublicized.

CROWD: We want peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. It was unpublicized and things like that --

CROWD: We want peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring up a suspicion and it looks kind of funky, you
know it look, it looks as though -- we don't know what really happened. So
-- I -- I have no idea what happened, I think most people don't know what
happened -- have an idea what happened until we figure out what happened, I
think we want the answers.

RIVERA: You know, Eric, the loud mouth gets the most attention. These are -
CROWD: We want peace.

RIVERA: Much more representative of the people in and around Baltimore --


RIVERA: Who are upset about the death of Freddie Gray. It's not about the
anarchists, so the ones who took off from school and looted, it's about the
real, real folks, Eric.

BOLLING: Although -- Geraldo, I want -- I want to bring that up. The last
couple of nights you've been -- you know, it in -- you've gotten in the
face of protesters who are angry not necessarily about Freddie Gray, but
more about white privilege, white media, they had grievances that go beyond
Freddie Gray, right?

CROWD: We want peace. We want peace.

RIVERA: They --

CROWD: We want peace.

RIVERA: They got in my face and I won't -- I won't take that time to, you
know -- obstructionist abuse. You know, I have my own pride and my own
professional space and those kids didn't want to make a message, they
wanted to obstruct my broadcast, because I'm Geraldo and because I work for
Fox News.

BOLLING: Geraldo --

RIVERA: To scream at me, OK? OK, Eric, back to you.

BOLLING: Greg (inaudible) --

GUTFELD: Yeah, I'm good.

BOLLING: All right --

GUTFELD: I was just going to ask him why he wasn't shirtless, but --

BOLLING: (inaudible) Geraldo, good job. We're going to let you go right


BOLLING: All right. We're going to say thanks to (inaudible) -- very
quickly, quick around on -- your thoughts.

GUTFELD: Well, you know, we have professional football players that are
visiting high schools right now and celebrities weighing in, their presence
is great, it's warm and it's positive and it's fuzzy, but then they leave.
Ray Lewis isn't going to be there to help a kid with his homework or go to
the parent teacher conference. So this all feels good and looks great but
then they --

GUILFOYLE: Or Carmelo --

GUTFELD: Then they leave.


WILLIAMS: And what they say -- that's what they say about the white
community that you know --


WILLIAMS: React to a riot or violence --


WILLIAMS: But it's not a concerted effort. This is interesting that you see
a Carmelo Anthony, Russell Simmons, all these stars. The question is does
black leadership, black folks who have made it offer positive role models -


WILLIAMS: Instead of the rappers who say, you know, it's a rite of passage
to go to jail and you like -- and dress like people who just got out of

BOLLING: Well -- they're wrapping us. One quick thought, Stephanie
Rawlings-Blake lives in a gated community named Rockman Ridge and she goes
back to that every night apparently according to our (inaudible). All
right, up next, the serious consequences resulting from the decision to
give a stand down order to police on Monday night.


GUTFELD: On Monday we watched as Baltimore police retreated from the
rioters, making these bulls-eyes for bandits. Businesses were then shut and a baseball game
was played to no one so no one would get hurt.


state of emergency every decision that's made is going to be scrutinized.
The Orioles wanted to make sure that they were able to continue to play.
We had to make sure that we protected our police resources, so the best
decision based on what was available was made.


GUTFELD: Those empty stands were an empty stand. For such appeasement
energizes those who pretend to champion the underclass when, in fact, they
seek destruction. This is not about race but radicals. Forget facts; they
want friction.

Radical idiocy abounds. You can't call a thug a "thug," but you can call the police an "occupying force." This leads to imitators in New York blocking tunnels and traffic. Who does this hurt really? "The Man"? Please, you're only hurting people trying to get home from work. But activists don't care. They're in this for themselves.

Sure, a Baltimore CVS burns, but if you get your pills at a Brooklyn store who really cares? They claim the protest was in solidarity but with whom? The folks whose buildings burned? The people who lost the senior center? The stadium vendors who lost business?

The solidarity was with other campus cretins who treat black suffering as a nighttime hobby. Shouting at cops is their aerobic tantrum, recorded for ego-stroking playback in their comfy, well-lit dorm.

Fanning the destruction just to say they were there, these are the casual collaborators of minority pain. They don't suffer the outcome. Their buildings don't burn but they get a neat story to tell their friends back home.

Just to point out the mayor and the governor deny that there was a stand
down, but our reporters stand by their sources, and I believe them.

Melissa, why close the game?

FRANCIS: I mean, they were only afraid of what would happen, I guess.

GUTFELD: So the terrorists win.

FRANCIS: Well, I mean, the problem is the solution is slow, and it's labor
intensive. You look at some of the things that have gone on in Watts.
That story about the Watts Bears where the police went into the projects,
and started a Little League game with eight -- the eight- and nine-year-
olds and they took them out in order to build a relationship between the
kids and community so that people on both sides were humanized.

This is something that creates change over years, and you have to go many
times a week and coach these kids, and nobody wants to put in that kind of
effort and see that change slowly. It doesn't have the same worth.

But over the long-term, it does make a difference. There were 46 murders
in that project, where they got the kids six years before they started the
team. After that there was only one. That's labor intensive. It's slow,
not a big change.

WILLIAMS: Gregory -- Gregory, let me just tell you that the guy who --
Peter Angelos owns the Orioles. But his son is the chief operating
officer. And he said, "You know what? This is going to take resources
away from the cops to have them direct traffic, because everybody is going
to the game." But the second thing is he said a stand for justice, protest
legitimate American protest is called for because he said something is
wrong here. Now, you disagree with that.

GUTFELD: Yes, I do. I do think that once you stop the daily life of a
community you actually are sending a signal to people who want to paralyze
commerce. Remember, part of the protests are subversives who are at every
protest. This is their career. Their design is to undermine probably the
most successful capitalist society that ever was. This is part of it, is
to paralyze commerce.

WILLIAMS: Well, what if you throw out the anarchists and the jerks and
say, "You know what? There are people here who have legitimate concerns."
Can you hear that?

GUTFELD: Absolutely. I can hear that.

BOLLING: Can I jump in? I think, look, MLB decided to shut the game down,
as well. So that was kind of their decision, and if we stand by what we
say, free market, they decided to do it, that's their choice to do it.
They didn't want the bad publicity if something bad happened. I get it.

But Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, I'm going to have to go back at this one more
time. She either has to be the mayor or stop playing the mayor on TV.
She's not doing the city of Baltimore any good.

She lives in a gated community. She goes back to the gated -- you asked a
valid question yesterday: has she visited the cops that were hurt? We
don't think she has. She's the secretary of DNC. She has aspirations
possibly of a Senate seat, possibly a Senate seat.

Does she want to be the mayor of the city of Baltimore and make the place a
better place? Then lead. Stop going on TV. Stop hanging out with Al
Sharpton. It does nothing for the people of Baltimore.

GUILFOYLE: The thing is, though, it's clear that she's getting direction
from other people. I think from the administration, from the DOJ and
clearly overtly from Al Sharpton who's basically saying, "Hey, you stand
behind me." I mean, it's so offensive.

You're a female, fantastic. Be the mayor. Get out in front, and don't let
that guy be a joke and stepping in front of you and acting like he's
running the show, I would, like, tell him go sit down.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. There's no evidence that the administration is
directing the mayor of Baltimore. I must say I'm amazed at what happened
with Al Sharpton. I don't get it.

BOLLING: Juan, she's acting more like a Democrat who wants -- who has
higher aspirations in the Democrat party than the mayor of Baltimore. Do
you agree or not?

WILLIAMS: I think she's acting like she's confused and overwhelmed.

FRANCIS: It's so tragic what happened there. I mean, Geraldo is talking
about the fact that Al Sharpton is one of these main people who is going to
be out there and leading the movement. He is not out there in the streets
with them. I mean, here is an opportunity to harness some real passion for
positive change, and instead, he's hogging camera time and standing in
front of the mayor, blocking FOX News from asking her questions.

GUTFELD: All right. They're telling me I've got to go.

One last point, though, about the mayor. A lot of people defend the mayor
as being overwhelmed and stressed out. That's kind of sexist. I mean,
it's like would you say that about a man? The man is overwhelmed.

WILLIAMS: I would say that.

GUTFELD: Maybe take a nap. You would never say that.

WILLIAMS: I would say it.

GUTFELD: You're sexist, Juan. I have called you out.

WILLIAMS: You got me.

FRANCIS: I think he would -- if he behaved that way you would say that
about a male, as well. Sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble.

GUTFELD: My bubble?

BOLLING: That's not going to go well in the break.

GUTFELD: Ahead, how some in the media have been helping fuel the anti-
police protests.


WILLIAMS: There have been some people in the media who have been offering
responsible commentary on the riots over the last week.


STEPHEN A. SMITH, ESPN HOST: Our ancestors, considering our history and
what they had to go through and the sacrifices that they had to make to get
us to this point, our ancestors would be ashamed.


SMITH: Of how we're conducting ourselves.


WILLIAMS: You go. Others, not so responsible commentary.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is a black woman. Barack
Obama is half black, half white but is identified as a black president, and
they're using the word "thug." Now Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has since said
-- has apologized. The president seems -- if we're to believe the White
House press secretary defiantly sort of doubling down.



WILLIAMS: Man, I'm just about to faint on that one.


WILLIAMS: Anyway, and then there's flat-out dangerous remarks like this.


MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: We can't continue to frame law
enforcement and the police forces in America as simply a bunch of good-
natured people and there happen to be a few bad apples amongst them.
That's not the right analysis.

Something about the job itself and the structure of law enforcement in
American -- an occupying force -- they're an occupying force in the hood.
That's my issue.


WILLIAMS: Kimberly, occupying force? I mean, now he's like -- he's going
towards the language of apartheid. I mean, this is craziness.

GUILFOYLE: No -- yes, it's very irresponsible language. It's
inflammatory. I don't know why he's saying that. Because he's basically
just taking, you know, a brush and -- against all police officers saying
they're all bad, their intentions aren't good, they're an occupying force.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's exactly what he said. He said stop thinking of it
as a few bad apples, and he said it's the overall job. That's their job.

BOLLING: He is 100 percent I don't think. It's opposite day in Marc
Lamont Hill's world. Law enforcement officers are good. Are there bad?
Yes, any profession has them, as you've so aptly proven just a minute ago
Juan, with two of those three sound bites.

Law enforcement, firefighters, military, they risk their lives every day,
they can be killed at any given moment. And this is the thanks they get?
Stupid comments like that?

Lamont Hill, you're a good guy. I've had -- we've had drinks with him
before, nice guy. You've got to stop, though. I mean, he's trying to
carve a niche out for himself.

GUILFOYLE: It's just weird for a guy that loves "The Golden Girls," right?

WILLIAMS: So let's give him so the credence, that people in those
communities people feel, "Oh, my gosh, the cops come in. They're not
protecting us. They're just keeping us away, like a line, a thin blue line
between us and the downtown business community or the more affluent black.
As you point out, the mayor lives in a gated community, black and white
community, is that fair?

FRANCIS: Can I point out we don't even know what happened in this
situation. I mean, we keep going back because we have no idea what
actually happened.

WILLIAMS: What about speaking generally?

FRANCIS: But that's the problem is everyone is speaking generally, and
that's where we're going wrong. And what about -- I mean, are we going to
talk about Alex Wagner? Could you get away on this network with saying --
I mean, I don't even want to repeat what she said, because someone is going
to cut it into a slice and put it up on the Internet somewhere. I mean,
can you imagine? That was amazing.

WILLIAMS: I don't know -- are we half something in here? I don't know.

GUTFELD: Alex Wagner is not a half racist. She's a whole racist. She
questioned the president's blackness? MSNBC is a blithering bucket of
bigots. She just rose to the top.

Marc Lamont Hill, friend of mine, he should explain his revolutionary ideas
to the employees at the CVS, not in an air-conditioned studio. Explain
himself to the people whose buildings burned.

And Stephen Smith, you can count on him to spit in the face of lockstep
leftism and the progressives who have destroyed the city. He has never
been scared to do that. Good for him. Alex Wagner, what a joke.

BOLLING: No more invites to the White House, I bet. I bet she's no longer

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something. You know what he should do? He
should talk to the little old lady lives behind bars in a corner house and
can't go to the grocery store. Talk to her about this.

Next we will go back to Baltimore for another live update from the scene.
Stay with us.


FRANCIS: So we're all talking about Geraldo and his march down there. You
know when celebrities coalesce -- there he is -- when celebrities coalesce,
everything is going to be OK. Doesn't that instantly -- Greg, doesn't that
instantly make you feel so much better? I mean, you've got Russell
Simmons, it looked like down there. You've got Carmelo Anthony. When the
celebrities show up it's all going to be better.

GUTFELD: No. You know what? I don't buy into any optimism. This is a

FRANCIS: You don't ever.

GUTFELD: No. This is a very depressing time for America, I believe. I
think we're watching cities fall apart after decades of experimentation
with progressive beliefs, and we're going to continue doing this.

FRANCIS: I think we have Geraldo now. We can hear -- if you want to go to
Geraldo Rivera. He's in the middle of this march in Baltimore City. What
are people around you saying, Geraldo?

Baltimore loves justice and loves peace; it's a peace and love kind of
crowd. It's a very integrated crowd in every way, both racially, it seems
economically, chronologically, they represent a pretty good cross-section.

Carmelo Anthony was indeed here. It was not Russell Simmons. It was
another Def Jam hip-hop mogul Kevin Lyles, but there are other sports
figures here as well, entertainment figures; and they have attracted a very
significant crowd.

They marched from the scene of the CVS burning there, symbolically there in
West Baltimore, several miles, 400, 500 of them perhaps, making the message
that they want justice.

What my fear is, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that justice for this group means the
officers will be indicted, tried and convicted. I think we have lived
through, with Michael Brown and Eric Garner and not to mention Trayvon
Martin, a totally different situation, where those hopes were dashed and
they were disappointed. You know...

WILLIAMS: Geraldo -- Geraldo...

RIVERA: ... what that means, I don't know. But I do know that there is a
kind of -- I used the term last night malignant skepticism to this

WILLIAMS: Geraldo.

RIVERA: I think that that is accurate.

WILLIAMS: Geraldo, it's Juan Williams.


WILLIAMS: Do you think that we're past the riots now? The curfew is on
tonight, but are we past the violence?

RIVERA: They don't -- you know, what do you think about the violence that
happened? Do you want to talk? You would you like to say anything about
it? All right. You know, I think -- you know, I talked to them. I talked
to them. This wasn't that crowd. This wasn't that crowd.

What about the violence? Do you condemn the violence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never do we condemn the violence, because we understand
that that is a reaction. When you have people who have been peacefully
protesting to get the system that has been out there not meeting them with
peace, then they act out that way. These are kids that are looking for
answers, and they're not getting them.

RIVERA: You know, the people who were hurt were poorer people, people
struggling. Is that a way to get the message out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it is not, and we're not condemning them in any
way. We're not saying what they're doing is right. I was at Security Mall

RIVERA: I've got to go. I'm out of time. I appreciate it. The rain is
coming also. I think that might signal a real end to what has been an
exciting afternoon. Back to you in New York.

FRANCIS: OK. Geraldo Rivera, thank you so much. "One More Thing" up


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: All right. So while we've been tied up with Baltimore there's
been other news that's been going on. We haven't really been able to cover

Hillary Clinton, only 10 percent of the foundation goes to actual charity.
And then there was this: yesterday she called for revamping the social
justice -- the criminal justice system in America. She said we should let
a lot of people out of jail, but there are a lot of -- by the way, good
idea, but there are a lot of people in jail. Why again? Let's watch.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This bill would have put more
police in the street, would have locked up violent offenders so they never
could get out again, would have given more prison construction money
available to the states and as well as the federal government. It's a very
well-thought-out crime bill that is both smart and tough.


BOLLING: Which was in '94, which also got signed, which also incarcerated
about a million -- 1.2 million people.

GUILFOYLE: It was a nice video, though.

GUTFELD: I wonder where those flowers are.



GUTFELD: Greg's real estate corner.


GUTFELD: Very, very, very exciting developments in Dubai. Let's go to
this, the world's highest cat condominium being erected as we speak. Each
apartment will run a cool 1.5 million catnip. And each condo will come
with an in-ground scratching post and a koi pond so you can eat fish
whenever you like.

GUILFOYLE: Wow. Is that in Andy Levy's apartment? OK.

GUTFELD: You would know.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, sushi (ph). No.


WILLIAMS: Hey, so listen to it this. Michael Moore, the famous director,
you know, wild liberal, here's what he has to say on Twitter. "Here's my
demand. I want every African-American currently incarcerated for drug
crimes or non-violent offenses released from prison today." And then he
adds, "Next demand: disarm the police. We have a quarter billion Second
Amendment guns in our homes for protection. We'll survive until the cops -
- the right cops are hired."

Yes, you'll survive, but somebody who actually needs a cop to protect them
from thugs -- anyway...

GUILFOYLE: Who can survive him? Insufferable.

All right. When in doubt, you want it to end the show on a good note,
bring in a baby. Right? Here is a dad playing a little cranky baby like a
violin. It's cute.





GUILFOYLE: I don't know if it's healthy, but it's being a little bit

FRANCIS: And you've got to laugh so that you don't cry along with the baby
when you're in that situation.

All right. I don't want to let Greg hog the catnip here, but if you're not
feeling great going into the summer season look at Sprinkles the cat. This
poor cat was abandoned in a foreclosed home.


FRANCIS: That is a 33-pound cat. They said that the cat has the paws of a
nine pound cat. I don't know how you determine that. Poor Sprinkles.
It's the equivalent of a 700-pound human. So if you're feeling bad...

GUTFELD: So Michael Moore in a fur coat.

GUILFOYLE: That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

GUTFELD: Sorry. Couldn't resist.

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