Police officer resigns after violent detention of teens at Texas pool party

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 10, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and she plays handball against the matchbox -- Dana Perino, "The Five."

Yesterday, a police officer in a small Texas town resigned over an incident at a pool. We know this because the incident was caught on a camera phone, instantly making a local conflict a national phenomenon. It's nuts. And with national phenomenons come the media convulsion, the descending of otherwise jobless activist, the placement of said incident into a "larger trend," all without pause for sober assessment.

If you were a space alien, how would this look to you? Well you'd notice a trend. Number one, local goes national. Two, teams form to take sides immediately. Three, someone gets punished. Four, rinse and repeat.

How would the story have unfolded before the iPhone? It would have stayed local and they'd deal with the rowdy kids and the overzealous cop right there. But now it's PC ping pong: We rush to defend or condemn before processing what's seen, and race always takes first place.

Each day we're greeted with a new Zapruder film, ugly tape that invites outrage. A fight in the store, a cop pepper-spraying someone. No one records the good stuff because you can't sell that to a restless, jaded public. And that's what we are. Imagine if you were doing your job -- a salesman, a banker, a plumber -- and some guy's filming you 24/7. And as you work, he just stares and hums. And when you screw up he posts that on Facebook. Congratulations, you're now a cop.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for outing the bad ones. But in a world of tattle tales, who have no idea what the hell you put up with everyday, if I were a good cop I'd point the cameras at us.

All right, I want to throw to this -- sound on tape of the attorney for the Eric Casebolt. Let's go to that, shall we?


JANE BISHKIN, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE LAWYER: Eric regrets that his conduct portrayed him and his department in a negative light. He never intended to mistreat anyone, but was only reacting to a situation and the challenges that it presented. He apologizes to all who were offended. As he commonly said, he is -- he's facing possible criminal charges so he has to prepare for that.


GUTFELD: So Kimberly, a local story in a small Texas town, we have a national press conference where an attorney has to say, a police officer has apologized. Is this over or should we make this a bigger, bigger story?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: You mean this particular case?


GUILFOYLE: Of Casebolt.


GUILFOYLE: Right. I think he tried to like get out ahead of it by saying, look, I'm gonna step down but the word is that he was getting death threats, his address was released. He was becoming a very dangerous, untenable situation for his family. So a mistake by the officer does not justify violence against him or his innocent family members. So what I don't like to see is the hysteria and pandemonium that is created by rushes to judgment, where people say, this guy should be taken out -- the whole thing. I still think are going to do an investigation. Let's see what happens. I'm not entirely sure what charges they are going to bring against him in this particular case. I don't know. I mean good luck to them on that.

GUTFELD: Dana, OK, so you got these rowdy kids, right? You got a cop that probably -- he admits the emotions got the best of him. That now becomes a data point in a narrative that yet again, cops are brutal racists. Does not -- and that's where it always leads.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, and then people connect dots. I mean, you announce --


PERINO: You could through and you could -- even in this past year, year and a half, you could name several instances where Megyn Kelly last night led with Baltimore because there are developments in that story, the Freddie Gray case, and there will be more on that. So I agree with you. All these local issues are now becoming national issues. They don't necessarily have national solutions. The only thing that they really have is national media attention. The solutions are still --


PERINO: Local. And that's why I -- I try to exercise some caution in looking at all of these things as we don't know what is like on the ground there. I don't know what McKinney, Texas is like. I don't know what the pool situation was. I don't know what the cops were dealing with. But I am also for ensuring that law enforcement has the ability to exercise their judgment and their discernment. They have to make snap decisions. Sometimes they are wrong and he will have to pay the consequences for that, possibly. But condemning an entire police force? All the police in America for these local instances seem very -- like a slippery slope.

GUTFELD: Eric, the little one makes a good point. It's like we have, we have --

GUILFOYLE: Her, not you.

GUTFELD: We have national press that kind of leads, but it's the local solutions that matter. At the end of the day, I hate saying that but it's the problem for the local communities.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah, and look, one of the things in the monologue, I agree with a lot of -- the one part that I would say -- I would push back on is rather than not embracing the technology of the cell phone, I would like to go the opposite spectrum and say, you know what, let's go out and put a body cam on cops. Now, this is very popular among cops because the vast, vast, vast --


BOLLING: Majority of cops are good cops. Once in awhile you'll come across one that's bad, and he is the one that all the media will point to. The Al Sharpton's will point to. The race baiters will point and say, see all cops are like him. Well, get it all on tape and see the good stuff that they do. So when someone starts pointing a finger at this guy, Eric Casebolt for pulling his gun. Yeah, but look at this. He had just come from --

GUILFOYLE: Two suicides call.

BOLLING: A two suicides, right. And so he could pull that tape and say, this is what I dealt with an hour before I made that call. So -- was I wrong? Possibly, I was wrong. Maybe I was wrong. I don't know. But there's a reason for what I did. And then --

GUILFOYLE: He was first on scene.

BOLLING: He may not have to resign.


BOLLING: And maybe people would say, he's not -- look, he made a mistake. He's a good cop, so he doesn't have to turn in his badge.

GUILFOYLE: His whole career is done now.

GUTFELD: Juan --


GUTFELD: Cell phones are valuable for obvious reasons.


GUTFELD: Because you see things that you haven't seen before. Should -- as they say, should there almost be like a protective, almost like a -- like why can't there be an army of drones that are up there watching what cops do? Because -- or what, what the populist does? Because if we gonna watch the cops --

GUILFOYLE: I think there are.

GUTFELD: Yeah, there should be.

WILLIAMS: I think there are.

PERINO: I thought we had a big debate about that last week?

GUTFELD: Did we?

PERINO: Sorry.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Where we said we couldn't do it.

GUTFELD: I don't -- I don't think that --

PERINO: On numbers. We're talking about looking at people and --


PERINO: Recording their actions. And if you get called to a suicide -- to prevent a suicide and as a cop, you go on the body cam like, now look, the guy was really about to commit suicide. We have health privacy laws that prevent us from even talking about anybody's health care. But yet, now we're talking about body cameras that would actually film someone's attention to it.

WILLIAMS: No, but that -- the contrary point --

PERINO: I don't think it's a good idea.

WILLIAMS: The contrary point is you have privacy right. The question is how do -- how do the cops handle the tape that exists? But it's not to say they shouldn't have the body camera. In fact, the police chiefs around the country are almost unanimous in saying they want the cops to have body cameras and it's a number of police unions to say, yeah, we're all for the body cameras. So --

GUILFOYLE: Like because they felt they also operating --

PERINO: So what's the whole of that?

GUILFOYLE: Protective mechanism for the police --



GUILFOYLE: Were accused falsely many times of these deeds.

WILLIAMS: Yes. So it would clear up people who are falsely accused, which is a great point.

BOLLING: Honestly --

WILLIAMS: And the holdup though is irresponsible to -- you are saying about local solutions. No, oftentimes it fringes the funding.


WILLIAMS: The funding, not only for cameras but how you store the material? That will come with the help of the federal government. Federal government can help you to get these body cameras. And the idea of the training and saying, when there are bad cops that the federal government will take a look. I think again that's an important function of our government.

GUILFOYLE: But wait --


GUILFOYLE: Now federal government checking the cameras?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BOLLING: No, no.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: The federal government has the rights. Somebody feels that their rights have been violated, that's interesting to me.

BOLLING: Stop, stop. You had the intent in the last part.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Then you blew it.

BOLLING: Then you released it that they don't.

GUILFOYLE: The whole bottom fell out.

BOLLING: There is a program right now --

GUILFOYLE: That was terrible at the end.

BOLLING: There's a Federal program which allows us against federal -- feds getting involved with. We don't want them to have access to that. That's got to be a local police department. And if a local community wants to subpoena the tape they can do that.


BOLLING: Funding, though, can come --

GUILFOYLE: Now you gonna squeeze (ph) them out.

BOLLING: On a matching grant. And we have this right now, President Obama approved 25 million bucks, police departments around the country can come with matching funds and they can take some federal money, take their own money and get body cams. We need a lot more money and -- but I just -- I think it solves -- by the way, you know when this is really gonna matter? If God forbid there's a massive race blowup in this country over the summer, you know where you can feel the tensions rising everywhere. If that -- if they just start this right now, let's get the cameras on cops right now so that we can avoid situations before they happen, not after.

WILLIAMS: You know, and this is, this really interests me because once they stated about the story is --

GUILFOYLE: One step closer to red box (ph).

WILLIAMS: This happens in a suburban community. This is no hard ass town. You know it's a tough neighborhood. You know, this is no tit.


WILLIAMS: And these are not poor black people overwhelmingly, these are kids, and they're -- and so I think that's what caught the attention. Now, when crazy is then all of a sudden, all these activists type show up and want to make it Ferguson or want to make it Baltimore. This is not the case. This is a joke. And then they got the hands up. And as you know from watching the Fox News channel, even the Justice Department, even the Obama Justice Department has said, that was a hoax. There were no hands up in Ferguson.

GUILFOYLE: That was a lie.

WILLIAMS: So -- but guess what? The national people now, they have taken to this. And I think they undermine their own credibility when they do that because much as the officer was wrong, in as much as Steve (ph) overreacted to a bunch of teenagers in bathing suits, who obviously weren't hiding anything. I think when the activists come in, they hurt themselves and they hurt the larger issue of dealing with cops who get out of control.

GUTFELD: I think that's a fair point and a fair point to end on this segment and go to -- we just had a presser on the manhunt. Very important news here, it was Governor Cuomo telling us what's happened with these missing inmates. Go for it.


ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: We need to find these escapees. They are dangerous men. They are killers. They are murders. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't do it again. They are gonna be more desperate than ever. So we're doing everything we can. It's a top priority to find them and to bring them back.


GUTFELD: So Kimberly, we have Breaking News, press conference telling us that we haven't found these people.

GUILFOYLE: I had know I was holding my --

GUTFELD: This is amazing Breaking News -- your thoughts?

GUILFOYLE: He said you are very dangerous and we need to find these people.


GUILFOYLE: Did you pay attention?

GUTFELD: Yeah. You have always want -- you always say they're very dangerous, do not approach them. Just once I'd like them to say, please approach them. Go up to them. Tell them your name --

GUILFOYLE: Tackle them.

GUTFELD: Invite them over for coffee.

GUILFOYLE: Body slam.

GUTFELD: We know not to approach them.

GUILFOYLE: We know. They are very seriously dangerous individuals and there's probably -- it's probably (ph) very badly in some kind of shootout with the police. We've seen this before. So let's see what's going to happen. But I -- I was hoping he was going to say something like, we've got a good lead and we're close or something of that nature.

PERINO: That was a CYA press conference.

GUTFELD: Right. And you know what it says?

PERINO: That it will make it look like they're doing stuff.

GUTFELD: And they were thanking people. I mean, yeah. What did --

PERINO: Thank you so much for sitting here every day as you do at 5 o'clock, it seems -- basically, it was the equivalent of that.

BOLLING: Can I add a little something to that? I think when beyond CYA, I think this was Governor Cuomo has had a tough time lately with some -- some would say questionable decisions getting out in front of it. I mean, the minute this thing was announced, he was up at the prison --

GUILFOYLE: Inspecting.

BOLLING: Walking through, photo ops all over the place. Here's the pipe they cut through, here is me climbing down ladders. Is this -- this is far different from some of the other things that he's --

GUTFELD: He's funny.

BOLLING: The way he's handled other things (ph).


GUTFELD: He's funny, actually. It's a good point, Juan. It's always about pipes with Cuomo. We can't handle fracking.


GUTFELD: We can't handle fracking and he can't handle escapees who made it out through a pipe.

BOLLING: E-cigarettes.

GUTFELD: Yeah, e-cigarettes.

WILLIAMS: E-cigarettes.


WILLIAMS: He doesn't like those, either. You know what's loved? I find so fascinating. I love these stories. The one about this one, the point about this story that fascinates me is apparently, there was a woman.


WILLIAMS: Working at the prison. And she was involved in helping these guys who were making material.


WILLIAMS: Or clothes or something.

GUTFELD: Tailor. They were tailors.

WILLIAMS: Tailors, OK. And then, she becomes different. And the theory is that she helped them get the tools. And now she's checked into a hospital.

GUILFOYLE: Because she had a big panic attack when -- it actually worked and they escaped. I mean, wow.

WILLIAMS: But she got used, apparently.

GUILFOYLE: Well you, know what? There's a nice jail for her. So she can contemplate.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you're a -- you see that's why you're a prosecutor.

GUILFOYLE: Of how she should have made a better decision.

WILLIAMS: You have no -- wait, what if --

GUILFOYLE: People have choices in this life, Juan. They should exercise them responsibly.

WILLIAMS: Maybe she got seduced.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, please.

PERINO: Who cares?

GUTFELD: Ever since you were made commander --

GUILFOYLE: How many times.

GUTFELD: Of the star trek enterprise --

GUILFOYLE: Do you love it?


GUILFOYLE: (inaudible)


GUTFELD: I could never do that. Do you have a final thought?

PERINO: Nanu nanu.



GUTFELD: Well, that's Mork, for God sake.


GUTFELD: You're confusing Mork, with Mr. Spock.

GUILFOYLE: No, that's nanu nanu version --

PERINO: Well, doing that thing, they do that too?

GUILFOYLE: Of Mr. Spock.

GUTFELD: I don't know. Now you can --

GUILFOYLE: Now Mr. Spock had the pointy --

GUTFELD: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Situation

GUTFELD: President Obama -- you remember him? He's sending hundreds of U.S. troops overseas to fight ISIS. Will that help? We're going to discuss that on a show called The Five.


GUILFOYLE: Just days after the president admitted he didn't have a complete strategy, yet to fight ISIS, his administration announced as many as 450 additional troops will be deployed to Iraq as advisers. Here's Josh Earnest, on why the decision was made and why it took so long.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What can we do to better support the strategy that has been laid out by Prime Minister Abadi, and what can we do to capitalize on those elements of our strategy that have proved effective in Iraq. And the best way for to us do both of those things is to essentially, expand the capacity of our train, advise and assist mission in the Anbar province.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What took your administration so long to find that this is -- that we need to take?

EARNEST: The specific request that was received from Prime Minister Abadi did not come until after the fall of Ramadi.


GUILFOYLE: On Monday, President Obama blamed the Pentagon for not finalizing a strategy for him. But the former head of the defense intelligence agency says it's not the military's role to set policy.


LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: The president has to be very clear about what it is that we want to do. He has then had to be, then has to put the right structure, framework, people in place to accomplish that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And I agree with that.

FLYNN: Yeah, I mean, I just -- I was stunned by his comments, two days ago or three days ago -- stunned.


GUILFOYLE: Stunned. That's the reaction. We still don't have a strategy yet, Eric, and this is even like what, a year later when he was talking --

BOLLING: I thought --

GUILFOYLE: We don't want to put -- you know, the cart before the horse and we're still waiting. We're still waiting.

BOLLING: Yeah, 10 months since he said we were -- we don't want to rush, right. We don't want to rush into the strategy. Look, so here's -- 450 trainers are going to go to Iraq. It's kind of like the football team that sucks and you try and fix it by hiring more coaches. If the Iraqi army doesn't want to fight for Iraq, it doesn't matter how many trainers you send. I'm not suggesting --

GUILFOYLE: I don't think that's a fair assessment.

BOLLING: Why not?

GUILFOYLE: I think that --

BOLLING: Because they're not gonna be (inaudible) --

GUILFOYLE: The criticism has been that they're not --

BOLLING: Combat.

GUILFOYLE: At varsity level. That they're not ready for primetime yet --


GUILFOYLE: To they're not adequately trained.

BOLLING: So it feels to me like he -- the administration is caving to the pressure of sending some people over there. They're going to get 450 over there. I mean is that really gonna change the game? It's gonna be a game changer? I don't think so. I think maybe helping the Kurds fight this thing, or at some point going, wow, is there -- is a three-state solution the best answer to this after all, and somehow negotiate a three-state solution between the three? Again, you know where I am. The more money and people and equipment we send over there, the more money and equipment ends up in the hands of the bad guys and the people end up dead.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So instead, we give them the caliphate discount card? Everybody sign up now. We get you a newsletter. I mean, I don't think that's the solution, though. OK, Dana.

PERINO: I think that the president is second guessing himself and the military a little too much. I think that there would be more support for additional advisers or whatever he wants to call them. I think he just would have to make that case. But if I -- if I were the president in the White House I'd go back to basics and ask these basic questions. Do we have a compelling national interest, yes or no?


PERINO: If we do, then what are we going to do about it? If we don't, what has changed since he told us that we did? And if you -- to take those three things and can answer them, that will help you try to find the strategy. I would say that the president right now, has got to start thinking about what kind of situation does he hand off to his successor. It's only 18 months away.

GUILFOYLE: A messy one. I mean, that can be wasted in five minutes of -- you know, well, we're not sure. Let's not be premature. Let's not rush into a strategy. We've been hearing that for awhile. I think we expect more of the same, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I think the obstacle is ourselves, we've -- it is a triumph of a certain ideology that portrays any kind of American concern as aggression. But I don't -- I personally, I don't see the difference between sending our best fighters to Nigeria to slaughter Boko Haram and sending 3,000 troops to deal with Ebola. I don't see any difference between getting rid of a homicidal tyrant and sending aid to Haiti over an earthquake. It's not up to the world to tell Americans what aid they should decide to get. You can't just say, send us your doctors and your money. If you're going to borrow our lawn mower, you better law -- mow the damn lawn or we're going to mow it for you. And we can't keep sitting here and going like, laboring under the illusion that because we're far away, we don't have any input? That the distance didn't stop 9/11, they did -- they flew the planes here. Ocean privilege does not exist anymore. The world is small. We cannot rely on distance anymore. We have -- nobody around the world can tell us where we're going to go, if we believe that our interests are at risk.

WILLIAMS: Right. So here's the thing for me. You guys are sitting here saying, oh, there's no strategy. The president -- I just think that's way overblown. You're talking about a military strategy. And let's have an argument about it beginning with the fact, that I don't see the Iraqis doing anything for themselves. And I think that Ash Carter of the defense secretary, let's go back to what he said. These guys don't have the will to fight. They weren't driven out. They drove themselves out. I mean, these guys -- come on. So OK, so now we have a situation --

GUILFOYLE: Maybe because they felt ill equipped and weren't properly trained.

WILLIAMS: Well, they were -- no, come on. We have say --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yeah.

WILLIAMS: You know we've trained a lot of people --

GUILFOYLE: President Obama's the one that pulled us out of there before they were ready.

WILLIAMS: You are making things up.

GUILFOYLE: I just (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: You are --

GUILFOYLE: No, I'm not.

WILLIAMS: Because listen --

GUILFOYLE: No, I'm not.

WILLIAMS: We trained a lot of people, but it doesn't matter if you train them and they don't have the will to fight, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: And then, but now you so, you know better because you're in the hearts and minds of every single one of those Iraqi people that signed up to fight? Come on.

WILLIAMS: No, OK. I'm saying that's what we said. That's why -- that's what he said.

BOLLING: They definitely are laying down -- they've laid their -- down the arms that we've provided them and the training that we -- and they've left it there and --

GUILFOYLE: And why is that?

BOLLING: They flee, city after city.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's variously (ph).

BOLLING: Because they have no will to fight.

WILLIAMS: There you go. I think that's right.

BOLLING: That is really part of it.

WILLIAMS: And part of is --

BOLLING: You don't have the will to fight. The peshmerga has the will to fight.

WILLIAMS: And right, the Kurds.

GUILFOYLE: And the Kurds.


WILLIAMS: OK, but let me just make this --


GUILFOYLE: But they are also, very trained, skilled --


GUILFOYLE: Super fighters.

BOLLING: No, they are not.

WILLIAMS: We are training --


WILLIAMS: We are training --

BOLLING: The Peshmerga Kurds.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WILLIAMS: We are training a Kurds --


WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you. We are training the Kurds --

GUILFOYLE: the Kurds are very good at fighting.

WILLIAMS: They are all good.


WILLIAMS: No, they're committed, right?


WILLIAMS: Because they have a sense they've got something to lose. They're fighting for their land. But let me just say, we have trained the Kurds. We've trained the Shiites -- the Shiites, but the Sunnis are the ones that so far this Shiite-led country has not allowed us to train. Now, under the president's new plan, we're going to get some of the Sunnis in and we hope that the Sunnis are gonna be willing to make the fight.

PERINO: I say Kimberly, you're exactly right.


BOLLING: And can I -- Can I do to one thing your lawnmower analogy is perfect. The problem is these guys, these Iraqis, keep giving our lawn mower to the bad guys and they're mowing our lawn with our own lawn mower.


GUTFELD: The issue is, of these 400 people are --

GUILFOYLE: What kind of crazy thing is that?

GUTFELD: Are gonna help pinpoint places to bomb, that's a good move.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, exactly.

BOLLING: No doubt. Agree.




GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: I think that's what it is.

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, some of the worst advice ever given to college graduates in America, Dana, has that next.


PERINO: Millions of college grads are saddled with the heavy burden of student loan debt. So what's the solution? Don't pay it off, according to Author Lee Siegel. And in an op-ed in the New York Times on Sunday, Siegel actually brags about defaulting on his loans and he's encouraging young Americans to do the same.


LEE SIEGEL, AUTHOR: I don't advocate that people go out and destroy their lives. But, what I was saying if that's -- an ideal situation, when things will only change through some kind of crisis, which is the way social change occurs. In an ideal situation, if everyone put their foot -- collective foot down and said, enough already. And there was kind of national boycott of loans, the system might change.


PERINO: So Jordan Weissmann of Slate had a great response, if you're interested we'll put it on our Facebook page. He said "After pursuing, not one, not two, but three degrees from an Ivy League University, Siegel chose to default on his student loans at taxpayer expense because he felt that paying them back would have hampered his ambitions of becoming a writer."


PERINO: Spectacularly bad advice?

GUTFELD: Yes. Especially, since he's such a bad writer and he's choosing symbolic statements over common sense. If he's telling students to default, that will force government to garnish their wages at 15 percent, which is more than a 10 percent they would owe in a repayment plan, that's also from a Weissmann article. The interesting thing here is that, he -- would you ever -- you, so you would not pay the school loan. Would you ever do that for car loan? No, because they can repossess your car. But they can't repossess your education because you already have it. It's like dining and dashing. He's basically telling you to eat the meal and then run. The solution is the same as dining and dashing. When you catch that person, you make him go into the kitchen and do the dishes.

That jerk, Lee Siegel should be forced to go back to that campus and work as a janitor on the weekends or at work, or just do some serious menial labor, because he's a crook. And he's a stupid crook, and he's a dangerous crook; and the Times should not have run that article.

PERINO: I agree. I think that the Times should not have done it. But look at the other people that they've had in recently like Putin. Let me ask you something about -- so the mortgage debt bubble, that was a huge one. The student loan debt bubble is now even bigger than that was.

BOLLING: It's exceeding $1 trillion. So if you look at Siegel's op-ed, he nails it right. He calls himself out in the very first line of the op-ed. It says, "I went with my mother to the local bank, a long-defunct institution." The reason why the local bank is a long-defunct institution is because low lives like you walk on the loans. You shouldn't be doing that.

It got so bad that the government said, "I'll tell you what. We'll now back the loans that you people like Siegel are defaulting, walking away from." So now the taxpayer's on the hook, too.

So all those people that you think you're -- you know, you're doing your social justice thing by telling kids to walk on the loans? Those are jobs. Those are people who are losing their jobs at the banks. Those are also taxpayers who are working hard, paying their taxes to support all those defunct loans that you're recommending right now.

I think he should go one step further. He should have to write some stupid inane B.S. for, like, I don't know, a year. He can't write any misleading (ph) columns or books.

PERINO: Kimberly, in your book, "Making the Case," you have what I think is very good financial advice. One of the things that could happen if you were to take Siegel's advice, OK, let me just tell you something. You would rack up collection fees. Your credit score takes a hit. It's very hard to ever get that back.

As Greg said, your wages could be garnished. You could lose your professional license.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

PERINO: Or your driver's license.


PERINO: You could be ineligible for future federal aid, and you could be ineligible for repayment plans and loan forgiveness. Which means you're totally on the hook.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, you really are. And this is really irresponsible. Because what you're doing is, this to me is committing a crime. You are intending to commit a fraud and steal. You are no better than a thief or a felon if you do this. Because if you take something you have no intention to pay for it, that's stealing.

GUTFELD: No, you know why, though? He said it because he's white. He has white privilege. He doesn't think he's committing a crime because he's a white liberal.

GUILFOYLE: Dual diagnosis. White privilege with...

WILLIAMS: If you're a black kid, you try it -- you're a black kid you're going to have hell in your life.

GUTFELD: Exactly. But he's a comfortable writer.

WILLIAMS: This -- his is entitlement gone bizarre. So I think all of you are kind of nailing the obvious. I just think this guy is nuts. I just think he's rude. I think he's narcissistic and selfish. I just don't like it at all.

Because I think education is a gift. And if you didn't make the decision that you're in, and I'm promising I will pay the money back, you should pay the money back. You should make an effort. But let me just say...

GUILFOYLE: The American taxpayers are going to pay for this guy.

WILLIAMS: Well, no question. No question.

GUILFOYLE: ... using -- using -- the use of America's steel (ph).

WILLIAMS: I think -- but I think you guys are hammering the obvious point here. I think the not-so-obvious point is the political point. Which is that he is playing into populist Elizabeth Warren sentiments that say, "Oh, you know what?" I think he wrote something like this. "Oh, the big tax fraud people. They get off. The inside traders, they get off. All of the folks on Wall Street with their inside nepotism, they get off."

GUILFOYLE: Yes. He's an Occupy Wall Street kind of guy.

WILLIAMS: Exactly. This is what this is about. But it is misguided. You are hurting people, Lee Siegel. You're hurting people.

PERINO: You know who paid off all of his student loans?

BOLLING: Every one?

PERINO: Senator Marco Rubio. That was in the New York Times yesterday, and they're giving him a hard time.

GUILFOYLE: They gave him a hard time.

BOLLING: Saying that he really wanted to follow his passion, and it wasn't fair that he couldn't follow his career passion because he had student loan debt, it's so...

GUILFOYLE: Entitlement.

BOLLING: How many millions of people have to take a job to pay off loans?

PERINO: And also -- it's also a very good reminder that parents, as you sit down before your kids go to college this semester, this fall, sit down with them and really talk to them about the major and what do they want to achieve. And you have to do a little bit of cost calculation before you enter into that.

WILLIAMS: Come on, Dana. So what are you going to say, that because I was a philosophy major, I had no hope?

PERINO: I think philosophy major, that's a -- that's actually a very good major. It teaches you great critical thinking.

WILLIAMS: I don't know, because I'm thinking -- my mother said what kind of job will that get you?

PERINO: OK, we've got to go. I'm going to get in trouble. I introduce another topic. All right. Let's go on to this one. Jerry Seinfeld thinks there's something creepy going on in America, and it's hurting the world of comedy. That's next on "The Five."


BOLLING: Last week Jerry Seinfeld revealed why he won't perform on college campuses anymore. Politically-correct students can't take a joke, and Jerry thinks P.C. is killing comedy. Last night he said the problem stretches beyond just universities.


JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: I do this joke about the way people need to justify their cell phone. I need to have it with me, because people are so important.


SEINFELD: You know, well, they don't seem very important the way you scroll through them like a gay French king, you know?

I did this line recently in front of an audience. And comedy is where you can kind of feel, like, an opinion. And they thought, what do you mean gay? What are you talking about gay? People say, well, that's offensive to suggest that a gay person moves their hands in a flourishing motion, and you now need to apologize. I mean, there's a creepy P.C. thing out there that really bothers me.


BOLLING: Greg, you know, it spills into the media. But now into comedy, too.

GUTFELD: Well, here's the thing. Jerry Seinfeld is today's Rip van Winkle. Because he's just waking up to something that has really been going on for 40 years.

Remember, Big Brother was supposed to be government. Big Brother is actually the activists. The actual -- the protester is now the biggest threat to free speech that we have ever seen.

And he should probably stop whining, because he's very wealthy and he can speak up and speak out and sponsor events on campus to talk about these speech easies which are like prohibition. You had speakeasies where the booze flowed. Now have the language flow. Sponsor events where you can have comedians go over there and where restrictions are restricted. People can say whatever they want. He could actually do it. He's got the power.

BOLLING: Juan, you had some...

GUILFOYLE: You turned that into a positive statement.

BOLLING: You got some blowback for just speaking your mind.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Obviously being a journalist and being on FOX, you get blowback. But I'm going to tell you something. I get blowback when I'm on college campuses. Because if you challenge orthodoxy. And what's interesting about this for me is, if you challenge liberal orthodoxy. If you say to the kids, you know what? Think about what you're saying. Think about what you take as an assumption. Think about how people have to live. Think about what the police do, the earlier segment about the fact they're human beings, too.

Oh, all of a sudden you're not fitting into the existing narrative that they've all bought into, and now you're the bad guy. This is very interesting to me, that liberals are buying into this.

Now the interesting part of this argument is that somebody wrote back to Jerry Seinfeld and said, "Hey, why don't you make fun of the people in power, rather than making fun of women or poor people or minorities? Why is it -- gay people? Why is it always that kind of archaic old-line power structure?" That was interesting to me.

GUTFELD: But he doesn't. I don't -- he doesn't make fun of women. He doesn't -- he doesn't make fun of minorities.

BOLLING: How about having to even respond to those types of demands from the public.

Your thoughts on Jerry Seinfeld?

PERINO: I thought that maybe it is that jokes go out of fashion. Like the types of jokes go out of fashion, that they change. So that good clean fun was in favor for a while. Then there was, like, the profanity-laced. Remember Eddie Murphy? I thought it was hilarious. But I don't know if that would have been funny to my grandmother. And kids today, I think they laugh at two things: Republicans and cat videos.

BOLLING: That's a good point.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: Probably don't push back on conservative humor.

PERINO: They think that's hilarious.

BOLLING: ... conservatives.

GUILFOYLE: I think, you know, he makes a good point. Because now he's saying that comedians even need to, like, think twice or three times, check the list. Get it approved, you know, I don't know, before they make some jokes if they don't want to get in trouble. So I'm all for maybe the speakeasy situation.

BOLLING: Stay right there, because mark your calendars for the first time ever, I think. I agree with Bob Costas, the sportscaster willing to run his mouth on everything from gay marriage (ph) to guns may finally have made a good call.


BOB COSTAS, NBC SPORTSCASTER (via phone): I wish Caitlyn all the happiness in the world and all the peace of mind in the world.

However, it strikes me that awarding the Arthur Ashe Award to Caitlyn Jenner is just a crass exploitation play. It's a tabloid play. In the broad world of sports, I'm pretty sure they could have found -- and this is not anything against Caitlyn Jenner. I'm pretty sure they could have found someone who was much more -- much closer to actively involved in sports who would have been deserving of what that award represents.


BOLLING: And personally, I think the one they should have picked, Lauren Hill, the college basketball player who spent her last days raising awareness of cancer in young people. That person, Lauren Hill definitely should have won that award for courage, in my opinion. So K.G., your thoughts.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. No. I second that. I think that would have been a fantastic pick. And I think appropriate, in keeping with the nature of that award. To designate it to someone like this, a young woman who's trying to create awareness of, you know, the terrible disease of cancer and that it does strike down young people, you know, in the prime of their life.

BOLLING: Juan, the Arthur Ashe Award for courage in sports has been given to some -- I don't know -- questionable characters, as far as their ties to sports. Your thoughts on this pick.

WILLIAMS: This is all -- I think Bob Costas is exactly right. This is all about money. "Vanity Fair" putting Jenner on the cover, all these magazines, all these stories.

I just think, you know what? People again this is so P.C. We're being, you know, progressive about this. No. I think you're just shutting down arguments and making people feel like you've got to buy into this. And it's all about making money for these media organizations.

BOLLING: Yes. Making money.

PERINO: Yes. I have to say I'm tired of the reality star driving of the news. Because you could do that almost every night now, right, so they get the reality show, and then they get the news coverage about their reality show.

In this case, I would like to have a right not to have an opinion. I don't want to have to care about everything. But what Jerry Seinfeld was talking about in terms of the mob mentality, the P.C. mentality, that also extends to something like this, where you have to have a particular opinion, and they want you to express it or else then you are also a sexist racist whatever, bigot.

GUTFELD: You know what it is. It's like in the "A" block, we were talking about this idea that you have to pick a side, right? If you don't have an opinion. In this case you have to pick a side. But it has to be...

PERINO: Their side.

GUTFELD: ... their side or you are a bigot.

I will -- I take some kind of offense with Bob Costas when he was talking about the broad world of sports. That's sexist.

PERINO: So rude.

BOLLING: Well done. Well done. All right.

GUTFELD: Apology. He must apologize.

GUILFOYLE: Immediately.

BOLLING: That Bob Costas.

All right. Does Hillary Clinton have an uphill battle for the African- American vote in America? That's coming up next on "The Five."


WILLIAMS: Last week Hillary Clinton made a push to expand voting rights in a bid, clear bid to appeal to minority voters, a group still struggling in today's economy. Unemployment among African-Americans almost double the national average, while their poverty level is nearing 30 percent.

This morning's Washington Post says as a result, some black voters are disillusioned. Of course. They're wondering if the first black president wasn't able to make our lives better, hmm. Does that mean Hillary Clinton should automatically get our vote?

What do you say, Dana?

PERINO: I think that they have a right to ask the question. And I thought that she did -- she had a broader speech. But the thing that was picked out and that her team really pushed into the media was this voting rights issue.

And if I were her, knowing that she's going to have to make sure that she gets voters to the polls, especially African-Americans, I would be talking about how to improve economic opportunity, school -- access to better school and maybe even school choice. That could be a bold thing that she could talk about. And also safety in their communities. I think those are the three things.

However, there's another thing going on here. She really only has to worry about turnout in five states. OK? Because she knows she's going to win California and New York. So there's pretty much only she needs to talk to African-Americans in Virginia, Florida, Iowa, Colorado and Ohio to get to that magic number of 270.

WILLIAMS: You know, Eric, what strikes me is, I don't think she's going to take Dana's advice. But I do think that she is going to demonize Republicans. In other words, "I'm not Barack Obama. You're not going to be voting for me as a fellow black person or the first black president."


WILLIAMS: "But don't forget the bad guys on the other side."

BOLLING: So OK, so yes, you're right. You're probably -- that will be the likely strategy.

But one of her biggest support groups is Wall Street. One of the biggest reasons why the income inequality gap in America has widened under President Obama is because Wall Street, the top echelon, the top maybe -- I don't know -- 5 percent are making more. They're not -- the bottom 20 percent isn't keeping up. It's going up but it's not keeping up.


BOLLING: I believe in free markets, and I'm in favor of that system. If you can make more, make more and go ahead and do it.

However, if you're talking income equality, which is a catch phrase for the left, more of the same is going to create a continued widening of income inequality.

So she hasn't shown us anything that's going to be different from President Obama. So you could look at it as Hillary Clinton as a third Obama term. And you're going to get more of the same. High unemployment among African- Americans. High poverty rates among African-Americans. And a widening income inequality.

GUILFOYLE: So Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: So she's going to have -- yes.

WILLIAMS: ... if you -- if you're a Republican and you're trying to reach out to minority voters, or let's say women, even, who are -- again she's counting on women to turn out in big numbers. What do you say as a Republican?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, Republicans are going to have to make the case for themselves to say just don't blindly check the box again for the Democratic Party. What has the Democratic Party done for you lately? Are you satisfied with what President Obama did? Do you want a continuation of that?

Or do you want to make a brave and courageous choice and be fearless and do something better for your families and for your children and for the future of this country and stop penalizing entrepreneurship. Get the economy back on the right track. Small businesses, educational and opportunities with new jobs for those kids that are graduating. That's what moms care about.

WILLIAMS: Well, they should hire you and Dana, I'll tell you that.

GUILFOYLE: We're running, obviously.

WILLIAMS: But I've got to tell you. So here's the thing. I was reading this Washington Post article. And the guy says, "Hey, you know, I made history voting for Obama. But it didn't make a difference in my life."

GUTFELD: Yes. It's time to wise up that nobody fares well under an expanding nanny state. And we've watched decades of harm of an unbridled government interference.

A president that represents all Americans helps black Americans most. Both parties are at fault. You have the arrogance of the white left that they know they can do anything, anything and blacks will still vote.

Then you have the ambivalence of the right, who have conceded votes of millions of people, because they've kind of given up. And these millions, millions of blacks and minorities, Hispanics, actually share conservative values. They do. It's been shown in surveys. But they don't know how, and they have to learn to communicate better...

GUILFOYLE: Yet the courts...

PERINO: You know what is very cynical?

GUILFOYLE: ... don't support them.

PERINO: If some on the right wanted to drive divisions, they would talk about her support and expanded support on immigration.

WILLIAMS: Here we go.

PERINO: That's how you could actually split that vote.

WILLIAMS: I think you're going to have a campaign. "One More Thing" up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "One More Thing," Dana.

PERINO: I need a graphic that's "Dana's Family Vacation Recommendations."

GUTFELD: But then everybody would leave.

PERINO: That would be funny.

GUILFOYLE: That was long.

PERINO: OK. My family recommendation. Something I got to do on Monday. I went to the Ronald Reagan library in Simi Valley It is spectacular. I went with my friends Tracy and Joe Schieber (ph). That's Macy English, their daughter. And I went with my husband. That's actually John Highbush, who runs the library. And I did a little book event there for "And the Good News Is."

But the crowning achievement of the day was that Macy English, as a surprise, was asked to come up and lead a gathering of about 1,200 people in the Pledge of Allegiance. And she didn't even blink. She was just perfect. The library is so inspiring and well done and put together. You should really consider taking your family this year.

GUTFELD: Simi Valley is awesome. They need a -- they need, like, a motto, "See Me in Simi."

GUILFOYLE: And you had a great picture on Instagram. That was really cute.


GUILFOYLE: Hi. Who likes pantsuits? Not me. Let's take a look at the...

GUTFELD: OK, Captain Kirk.

GUILFOYLE: Whatever. Look at -- I do like this picture. This is Hillary Clinton joined Instagram.

BOLLING: Red, white and blue?

GUILFOYLE: But it's all, like -- I like that it's color-coordinated like that.

BOLLING: Does she have five of each?

GUILFOYLE: Color blocks. Like the flag.

PERINO: She might have to change multiple times in a day.

GUILFOYLE: All pantsuits. That's a pretty cool shot. Right?

GUTFELD: That was cute.

GUILFOYLE: I think that's adorable. That's why I did it.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's very nice.

WILLIAMS: I think they need the FOX fashion department in here.

GUILFOYLE: I know. Where's my Marta (ph)?

GUTFELD: ... people...


GUTFELD: "Greg's Coats -- Goats in Pajama News."


GUTFELD: All right. It's a big trend in Brooklyn, goats in pajamas. Interesting here we've got a lot of goats walking around, looking very stylish. You know how you make a goat smile? Say, "Goat cheese."

I can make you laugh at the dumbest jokes ever.

GUILFOYLE: No. You take them out of Afghanistan.

GUTFELD: That was a stupid joke.

PERINO: It's a clean one. It's funny.

GUTFELD: All right, all right. Eric.

BOLLING: OK. Ever really want to catch a foul ball at a baseball game? Ever really want to do it with a bare hand? How about taping yourself doing it? Watch this.

Now that's amazing. That is Mike De Graves, and that's a GoPro that he filmed the whole thing with. It was the Biloxi Shuckers against the Mobile Bears, minor league. But that was pretty cool.

GUTFELD: Juanzo.

WILLIAMS: So Mark Lazarus, the NBC Sports chief, well, he loves hockey. He's showing it, getting good numbers, but he has a complaint. Too many beards. Look at Patrick Kane. Look at Henrik Lundqvist.

The chief of NBC sports says we want to see faces. He wants the faces to be recognized and fans to root for their heroes. So no more James Harden, no more Brian Wilson. Cut the beards, gentlemen! If you want to be famous and get endorsements.

GUTFELD: That's beardist.

WILLIAMS: Beardist?

GUTFELD: Yes. You hate hair. What have you got against hair?

WILLIAMS: Have you ever had a beard?


PERINO: Probably not.

GUTFELD: "Special Report" up next.

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