O'Reilly and Univision's Jorge Ramos Debate Illegal Immigration Chaos

This is a RUSH transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," July 7, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: Now for the top story tonight, reaction [to illegal immigration chaos]. With us, Jorge Ramos, news anchor for Univision and the author of the new book "A Country for All: An Immigrant Manifesto."

All right. Say you were the governor of Arizona, and you have 1,100 guys and gals convicted of violent felonies in one county in the Phoenix capital city area. What do you do? What do you tell your people?

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JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: Well, the problem is if we keep on repeating misinformation, people are going to believe it.

O'REILLY: But I just gave you actually the latest factual information.

RAMOS: And I can give you three indisputable facts. First, crime is down in all the country.

O'REILLY: No, just the one I just told you.

RAMOS: Yes, according to -- I'll get to Arizona. According to the Department of Justice.

O'REILLY: And that's what I said.

RAMOS: Despite the fact that immigrant population has more than doubled in all the country.

Second, American Majority's foundation found that in the states, including Arizona, with the largest immigrant population, crime has declined more than in other states.

And finally, this is important, according to the FBI…


RAMOS: …crime has gone down in Arizona. So are you going to argue with the FBI?

O'REILLY: I'm going to tell you this. I gave right in the "Talking Points Memo" the most accurate information available. And we got 1,100 people sitting in Maricopa County jail charged with violent felonies. Eleven-hundred. That's a catastrophe. That's a catastrophe.

RAMOS: And I'm giving you also the information.

O'REILLY: But you're not dealing with that fact. These are illegal immigrants crossing into Arizona, committed violent crimes. I'm appointing you governor of the state. What do you tell your people?

RAMOS: What's really important is that most immigrants, Bill, and this is very important, most immigrants…

O'REILLY: Jorge, you're just dodging my question entirely.

RAMOS: Most…

O'REILLY: It's like I'm not even here.

RAMOS: No, most criminals are not terrorists, because you're only talking about…

O'REILLY: That's what I want to talk about.

RAMOS: …only minorities.

O'REILLY: That's why the law was passed.

RAMOS: Exactly.

O'REILLY: To deal with these 1,100 people today.

RAMOS: And they are here because many Americans, thousands of American companies are hiring them and because millions of Americans, including you and me…


RAMOS: …benefit from their work.


RAMOS: But you had four…

O'REILLY: Go ahead.


O'REILLY: You're the governor of the state.


O'REILLY: You're the governor of the state. You got 1,100 people in one county charged with violent crimes hurting people. What do you do about it?

RAMOS: Well, this is a federal issue. It's not a state issue.

O'REILLY: OK, so you're the governor, and you say to people, I'm not going to do anything.

RAMOS: No, no.

O'REILLY: It's a federal issue. We'll let them do it. And they haven't done anything in 30 years.

RAMOS: No, what I'm saying is that you simply cannot misrepresent reality. What we are seeing is it's just a minority.

O'REILLY: Jorge, there's 1,100 people. That's reality. They've hurt Americans.

RAMOS: But I'm telling you the facts about what's going on with crime…

O'REILLY: But you don't know what to do, Jorge. Be honest.

RAMOS: Of course…

O'REILLY: You don't know what to do.

RAMOS: This is what we have to do. We have to deal with 11 million immigrants who are living in this country. They have no rights. It is incredible. The Declaration of Independence says, Bill, that all men are created equal. Right now in Arizona and in many parts of the United States, many men and women are not treated as equals. And you know, Bill, that is completely, totally un-American.

O'REILLY: Look, Jorge, do you -- what you're saying isn't wrong. I don't mean to be overly harsh to you. You're not saying anything wrong. You just simply don't know what to do with the violent criminal aliens. You don't know. And so therefore…

RAMOS: It's not that we don't know.

O'REILLY: …you lose your authority…

RAMOS: No, no, no.

O'REILLY: …to criticize the state of Arizona who's trying to protect its citizenry.

RAMOS: No, what I'm saying is that…

O'REILLY: You don't know, Jorge. I've asked you 14 times.

RAMOS: No, no, you are misrepresenting reality because you want people to believe that that tiny minority.

O'REILLY: It's not tiny. It's 1,100 people in one county. It's not tiny.

RAMOS: The vast majority of immigrants contribute much more to the economy and to this country.

O'REILLY: So we let these people run wild then?

RAMOS: … than what they take away, no, no, that what they take away from this country…

O'REILLY: So you let them run wild.

RAMOS: No. And more…

O'REILLY: What do you do? What do you do?

RAMOS: Most immigrants are not criminals. Most criminals are not…

O'REILLY: All right, Jorge.

RAMOS: …of course…

O'REILLY: Let me try to get it another way.

RAMOS: Let's do another one.

O'REILLY: You don't like the Arizona law, OK. You don't want it there. The Arizona law is there to make it easier for the state police in that state, all right, to know who is there legally and who is there illegally. You don't want them to know that. You say it's the federal government's job.

RAMOS: It's a federal issue.

O'REILLY: But you know as well as I do the federal government hasn't done its job.

RAMOS: Let me tell you something. Here in New York, if you are a Latino or an African-American, you are more likely to be detained by police than if you were white, according to The New York Times.

O'REILLY: Because the majority of crimes are committed in those neighborhoods.

RAMOS: Let me finish. Just imagine what's going to happen in Arizona with a law that promotes racial profiling. If I were right now in Phoenix or Tucson, Arizona, I could be detained by the police.

O'REILLY: That's not true.

RAMOS: Simply because of my accent.

O'REILLY: No, you'd have to be involved in another police matter.

RAMOS: You have to let me finish. Simply because of the color.

O'REILLY: You're wrong.

RAMOS: Simply because of the color of my skin.

O'REILLY: That's wrong.

RAMOS: Or simply because…


RAMOS: Or simply because of my accent.

O'REILLY: That's not true.

RAMOS: I just came back from South Africa. It is amazing what they have done in 16 years…

O'REILLY: All right.

RAMOS: …against racism.

O'REILLY: Jorge, it's like I'm invisible here.

RAMOS: No, no.

O'REILLY: If you go to Arizona, they can't stop you unless you're involved in another police matter.

RAMOS: And Arizona's going exactly the opposite way. I'm not saying that people in Arizona want to create an (INAUDIBLE) system.

O'REILLY: All right.

RAMOS: What I am saying is that the talk in Arizona right now shamefully resembles what we saw in Africa and South Africa.

O'REILLY: I disagree 1,000 percent.

RAMOS: Of course.

O'REILLY: The book though is very provocative. I want people to check out Jorge's book "A Country for All." And we appreciate you coming in and taking the fire.

RAMOS: Thank you so much.

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