This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 16, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, FOX NEWS HOST: Some very new disturbing information to report tonight on Wednesday's assassination attempt on GOP lawmakers.
FOX News can confirm that authorities found a list of six names of Republican members of Congress in a van belonging to James Hodgkinson, the left wing gunman who opened fire at a practice for the annual Congressional baseball game. The news adds to the mountain that Hodgkinson's specifically targeted Republicans when he went on his shooting spree wounding five including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise who remained hospitalized and in critical condition.
Representative Trent Franks of Arizona was one of the names on Hodgkinson's list. Martha MacCallum asked him about it tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TRENT FRANKS, R-ARIZONA: There are certainly many indications now that the shooter was premeditated in his actions. I have been notified that there is an investigation and that, yes, that I might be involved in that investigation. But, you know, I certainly can't go any further than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Can you imagine Greg if you get this information and your family members in hearing this, that your name was on the list, and here this guy was just opening, you know, like shooting pinballs, guns at people trying to take as many people down as possible, and you are one of those intend to targets.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes. I mean, we just heard about this, some thoughts, who were not on the list where the cops who killed him. So we have to be reminded that if they weren't there, everybody would have been killed. He had a list. He was determined. And I still believe we should act as if that's the reality that the cops weren't there. So, we remind ourselves what we missed, what could have happened. And when you think, look at this perpetrator, he flies in the face of the media approved stereotype, he is an older white man with a gun. He should be a redneck Nazi. He should be Fox viewer in a red hat that says, "Make America Great Again." But sorry, he's a left wing MSNBC watcher.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. At this hour too. All right. So, Dana, what do you make of this information? It's important to have security especially because of the succession. In terms of the majority whip position, et cetera.
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Right.
GUILFOYLE: But wow, and I -- they didn't say that Steve Scalise was on the list.
PERINO: Right. And perhaps, I think, I don't know if he is a member of the House Freedom Caucus. Because all the members that were on that list -- and I'm not, I don't know if Scalise was a member of that party. So, it obviously wasn't random. And so he knew what he was doing. And this idea that it comes to the baseball field and asks, are those Republicans or Democrats? They're practicing. I would imagine, he actually probably knew that and perhaps we'll find out more. The one thing about security for these members of Congress is very interesting. So, only the leadership has actually afforded 24-hour security.
PERINO: Because imagine trying to provide 24 hours security for 535 members of Congress. One of the things that members of Congress have been asking and Congressman Marsha Blackburn was talking about this the other day, that they have asked the Federal Election Commission for permission to use some of their campaign funds to supplement security for times when they feel like they might need it. Like at a town hall meeting or, you know, some place where they're meeting with constituents or they're out in the open where they feel like they need it.
And the -- is sort of, I don't think they haven't said no, but it sort of dragging their feet on it but seems to me that if it would give some members of Congress some confidence to be able to go out and do their work, that would not be taxpayer funded dollars, they would have to make a decision to use campaign funds to pay for that. I feel like the -- should go ahead and approve that. At least in the interim to give people some confidence because I'm that other members of Congress think that they are probably on other list out there. Hopefully, that is not true. But if you don't have any other way to protecting yourself, I think this seems reasonable today.
GUILFOYLE: I think it's reasonable. I think it's a good idea and did it better to be safe than sorry. Because certainly there's a fact pattern here, you know, Juan that warns perhaps letting them do this and making this accommodation in the interest of legitimate public safety and personal safety for our elected officials.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, of course, I mean, you want to have a security, interesting and difficult situation here is, take the White House. Now, you can even drive down Pennsylvania Avenue. You don't have access. The capital is, I mean, that is supposed to be basically a Congress that American people are supposed to be able to go in there and talk to elected officials.
In recent years, they've made some changes in terms of meeting space by creating that Capitol Center that so many people may now be familiar with is actually underground but that is where so many meetings with the constituents take place. And then in the last two days, seems the shooting, Kimberly. You have had meetings between Speaker Ryan and the Minority Leader Pelosi about added investment in security specifically the Capitol police.
Just having more Capitol police on the grounds and potentially as Dana was discussing, at some of this town hall meetings but the question is, how far do you go with security? Because we are an open society into democracy and you want to be able to speak to your representatives.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. That's the whole point and a lot of them are making, you know, that exact argument which is I think is an important point, and then you found out that there's list, with people on it, Jesse, and you'd say, whoa, am I on a list somewhere? You know, that's the problem.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes. I think having a list crystallizes how partisan attack this was. There's really no getting around it anymore. It was a partisan political assassination attempt. And this guy watches MSNBC, the guy, you know, was a campaign volunteer for Bernie Sanders. Imagine if it was a Trump volunteer who watched Fox News Chanel.
I'm just trying to think of the reaction if it had been the other way and just try to -- some of the hypocrisy. It almost seems like today, the media kind of wants to move on from the story. I was watching a lot of cable news today. I was reading a lot of the paper, and there's a real appetite to say, you know what, we talked about it, we had the baseball game, let's move on to Russia.
WATTERS: I don't think that would happen if it was the other way around. And it's not time to move on. I think it's time for some soul searching among everybody but especially on the Left. To say, what are we doing out here?
WATTERS: Are we accessories? Are we exciting? These people out there now on social media, if you're not having any boundaries on social media, and you're not doing it to someone's face, and you're doing it anonymously, and there's a million of you and you're traffic in the same kind of vile. It makes it feel like acceptable to slander someone or encourage violence against someone because there's really no barriers there. And then when you get down to the real world and start pulling triggers, that's the problem. There's no division between the reality of real life and stuff on the internet.
GUTFELD: I mean, there is an argument for the fact that if you create an outlet for that, then you reduce the reality of it happening on the street. If the internet was around in the 80s, in the 70s, would John Lennon be alive? Because Mark David Chapman would've been harassing him from faraway rather than -- we don't know that it's hypothetical.
GUTFELD: But I want to go back to the security question. There was a story today about a Tennessee homeowner who caught those two inmates who killed those prison guards. He held them. He was a citizen with a gun. He held both of these incredibly dangerous murderers. On the ground, until the police came, he was a Texas homeowner. I'm bringing this up in the story to illustrate that guns save lives. Those guys were on the run. They were on the run. They murdered two prison guards. They were going to kill more. A homeowner with a gun prevented the deaths of others, the same way that those police officers who may not have -- been there, Scalise wasn't there.
GUTFELD: Save those lives. So, where there is a gun, people's lives are saved.
WILLIAMS: Well, since you open the discussion. Because again, I think that we should honor the tragedy that took place. And I don't think that it's the appropriate time to have a discussion by gun control. But far more people who have guns kill themselves, kills their friends and family. And to me, it was the idea that professional with guns act in a way that protects us.
GUTFELD: Oh, absolutely. And legal gun owners, I'm sorry, Juan, legal gun owners are professional. You're smearing people who owned guns right now.
WILLIAMS: I'm not smearing anybody.
GUTFELD: You're saying that they can't handle a gun.
WILLIAMS: No, I'm saying --
GUTFELD: Every gun owner I know trains and goes to the range.
WILLIAMS: Okay. In this case, what we have here, someone who had a permit from the state of Illinois --
GUTFELD: Should have had it.
WILLIAMS: Oh, well, that's my point. You said that if every gun owner that was trained in a professional --
GUTFELD: No, that wasn't your point.
WILLIAMS: This guy is never --
GUTFELD: You said only professional should have guns.
WILLIAMS: Yes. I think police.
GUTFELD: And that's wrong.
WILLIAMS: But here's my point, you have a situation where this guy us given a gun permit.
WILLIAMS: And I think if you look at his background, if that witness had shown up in the domestic abuse case, he would have been able to get it. But he gets it.
WILLIAMS: And then he perpetrates this horror. And by the way, you know, we were talking about the partisanship and he had this list. You know now, there are several Democratic candidates who have said that they are not running.
WILLIAMS: Because they have had threats against their lives and that they are stirred. They live in fear.
WILLIAMS: When you talk about not getting good people into public life --
GUTFELD: Who is threatening though? Other Democrats or could have be Hillary versus Bernie --
WILLIAMS: Let's not get into, but I am saying, they're deranged -- there are a lot of deranged people who take any opportunity, any cause, they've align themselves with something, and then all of a sudden we are having a political discussion, want to attribute blame the one side or the other.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. But today, we also got an update on House Majority Whip Steve Scalise and he's on everybody's mind. And doctor say that he is still in critical condition but miraculously somehow they think he will make an excellent recovery. Even though he arrived at the hospital Wednesday at imminent risk of death. President Trump said these touching words about the Congressman earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My dear friend Steve Scalise took a bullet for all of us. And because of him and the tremendous pain and suffering he is now enduring and he is having a hard time. Far worse than anybody thought. Our country will perhaps become closer, more unified, so important. So we all owe Steve a big, big thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. So Dana, that was very nice commentary, and this is someone who is very good to President Trump and candidate Trump when he was running for office.
PERINO: Yes. I think that President Trump actually would have been like this to any member of Congress whether they had supported him or not.
GUILFOYLE: I agree.
PERINO: I also feel like this is the week where he found out what it's like to be the comforter in chief for our nation. It won't be the first time that he has to play that role. Unfortunately he knows that there will be other times to come. But I think he set a really good example on a high bar for himself today.
GUILFOYLE: Excellent. Jesse?
WATTERS: Yes. There is a New Jersey Democratic political strategist named Devine who actually said this. He said, he has little sympathy for Scalise because of his lack of support for gun control. Also tweeted, we are at war with selfish, foolish, and narcissistic rich people. Why is it a shock when things turned violent? #HuntRepublicanCongressmen.
WATTERS: Forty eight hours after the shooting, the guy is hashtaging, HuntRepublicanCongressmen. I can't even believe it.
GUTFELD: He cannot be hired again.
WILLIAMS: That is awful.
GUILFOYLE: I mean, ever again, it's awful. Right? I mean, it's unbelievable. All right. Give your final comment.
GUTFELD: Well, I think that one of the stories that is not brought up enough is medical expertise. The reductions in homicide is directly related to new improved surgery, new improved techniques. If you had the same medical technology as you did in the 70s. We always talk about our declining homicide rate. One of the reasons is because we are saving people.
WATTERS: Like casualties and wars.
GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And that's where they learn it. I think because the battlefield is where they learned it. So, I mean, we don't want to get deceived by the fact that, well, in some cities the homicide rate is still going up and others is going down. But a lot of it is, the reductions are because we're just better in saving lives. It's interesting.
GUILFOYLE: All right. And protecting lives as well.
President Trump fired up his opponents again with another eye opening tweet on the witch-hunt. Coming up, next. Stay with us.
WATTERS: President Trump hitting back hard today on the Russia investigation with this new tweet. "I'm being investigated for firing the FBI director by the man who told me to fire the FBI director. Witch hunt."
He is apparently referring to Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein who recommended the President fire FBI Director James Comey. Rosenstein appointed Special Counsel Robert Mueller to head up the Russian investigation which is looking at Mr. Trump for obstruction of justice if an anonymously source, the Washington Post story is to be believed. Mike Huckabee says that a lot of these leakers are lying to try and take down the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: That's who we need to start questioning, who are these sources? Look, people close to Donald Trump, if they're talking, they don't belong in a circle of trust. The truth is, that's not whose talking. These are people who are making this stuff up to make Donald Trump look bad because I'm convinced that there is an attempt to overthrow and I used that word, purposely, overthrow this president, and that is anarchy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: So you are hearing a lot of this now in the press about maybe suspicions that Comey had this conversation with the President and he then leaked this memo in order to spark a special counsel investigation of the President. And people are suspicious of that and they're saying, maybe people are trying to take this president down from within.
GUTFELD: First of all, Rosenstein, is that his name?
GUTFELD: So, he is in charge, because his boss Jeff Session had to recuse himself --
GUTFELD: And there's a possibility that Rosenstein will recuse himself with leaves you with racial brand. And if she recuses herself, it's the guy in the Trivago ad.
GUILFOYLE: I like him.
GUTFELD: Yes. You know, he is dressing better.
WATTERS: He's there.
GUILFOYLE: He's incredible. Yes.
GUTFELD: Donald Trump is in a video game right now called, get Trump. And he started to gain, he put the coin in, I'm old school on inauguration. And for the next four years, he's navigating through different levels of attacks. Oncoming monsters, different kinds of weapons. When one weapons fail like collusions then there is another weapon called obstruction. What weapons could it be next up to that? So, he's actually trying to get through and play the game for four years. Right? And do his job. But he's got to get through all of these. It's like playing Doom. If you remember, that was my favorite game. But it is, it gets Trump, someone should do it.
WATTERS: So, you were in the White House. And you know people that were in the White House, when there is that special counsel investigation going on with the Scooter Libby deal. The level of anxiety right now, where would you put that in the Trump White House?
PERINO: Well, based on my experience. So, I was Karl Rove's spokesperson during that whole time, and he writes very eloquently about what that was like and both in his book and then his column in the Wall Street Journal, Tuesday. And then today you have a column by Mike Penn who worked for Bill Clinton and he writes in The Hill about what was like for them in the Special Counsel and both of them saying, if there is no evidence of the underlying crime, then the investigation should end.
PERINO: Because everybody was caught up in these things, these ancillary things. But that said, I think that Jimmy Gorelick who is Jared Kushner's lawyer had the best response of anybody and actually the White House has referred everything to her.
PERINO: Because she said, yes, duh, no doubt, there's an investigation of course, we expected this. By, you know, by Governor Huckabee suggesting that there are more nefarious things happening. And I actually think that that is causing more problems because then we're like, who could that be?
And they're putting fuel on the fire when actually Jimmy Gorelick is your best role model on this. She's like, yes, there's an investigation, we totally expected this. Nothing to see here. We're not worried about it.
And if you look at what the President did today, you both talked about Congressman Scalise but the people policy which we're about to talk about on this show, this is a big accomplishment. A campaign promise fulfilled and they focus on that. And I think if you didn't tweet that thing about the witch-hunt, you probably would have had that fully in the can today.
WATTERS: That's not about the point.
WATTERS: Juan, we're talking about the -- you're welcome, Tucker, I mean, Dana.
We're talking about the hysteria on the one side. But then when you look at three, I think probably the top legal minds besides Kimberly Guilfoyle in the country. Ken Starr, Alan Dershowitz and Jonathan Turley, constitutional scholars, they all say that there is no obstruction of justice case here. Who do you believe? The Washington Post or these three people.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no, I mean, people who have done other obstructions of justice cases including the ones against Clinton say that there is more evidence here for an obstruction case.
WATTERS: Ken Starr was the --
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. There are other people who participated in these efforts. And so, it's a matter of, you know, what chef you want to call into the kitchen. But I mean, I don't know how it plays out there. I mean, to me the big news today is you have, you know, staff told to preserve records. You have the President's lawyer Michael Cohen saying he's hiring his own lawyer. We know that Vice President Pence has hired his own lawyer. They are now going to apparently interview people who want of the lead, communications people for the campaign.
So, and we know that it goes beyond. I mean, one of the things about the Trump tweet, that was so interesting was to suggest, as Greg was saying, well, maybe now, it's not about collusion now it's about obstruction. But in fact, the investigation goes on. It's not only collusion it's also potentially obstruction, and now there is this financial piece that involves Jared Kushner. So, we have it on many levels.
But I think the most intriguing thing that happened now is this Rod Rosenstein put out a very strange announcement that said, don't believe any anonymous sources that come from foreign governments is thinking, well, is he talking about news of where he came out, or something more coming that apparently is being intentionally sourced and placed by foreign governments trying to hurt the United States. This is really why it's getting deep.
GUILFOYLE: It's really not. I think it's very superficial and it's bordering on asinine. Because there is no evidence to support this. There wasn't last week or the week before. There's still isn't now. All of these people, just so you know, already had attorneys. This is no new developments. Michael Cowen, Jimmy Gorelick has been representing Jared. She has the strong favor of the President in terms of he trusts her and respects her. And that somebody that worked with the Obama administration. The bottom-line is, it is smart to have a lawyer. Don't you all have lawyers that represents you and you call them.
GUTFELD: I think I need one.
GUILFOYLE: You need them for other reasons.
GUTFELD: I need a whole group of lawyers.
GUILFOYLE: The thing is it would be ridiculous if you didn't have given what's going on in the climate. But if you remember, we went down this road before because it was The New York Times that five sources before, they said it was collusion with the President, right?
GUILFOYLE: Anonymous sources. And now again, mysteriously it's always the member. Five anonymous sources. So, when you see Rosenstein saying, okay, you know, I don't believe, you know, anonymous sources. Yes. Don't think your teeth into story that over and over again say, anonymous sources. I heard a man testify the former FBI Director Comey say that he didn't think that the President was trying to obstruct. He specifically told the President he -- investigation three separate times for collusion. So where exactly is the story here?
WILLIAMS: I think --
GUILFOYLE: The story is that people trying to undermine the presidency of the United States.
WATTERS: All right.
WILLIAMS: Comey said pretty clearly, he took it as a direction.
GUILFOYLE: Where was that in the transcript?
WATTERS: He also said it wasn't obstruction.
WILLIAMS: But I think the most interesting thing before we ran Jesse is that there's so much talk this weekend about whether Trump will in fact fire Mueller. That to me is, I think it's a crazy idea but apparently not ruled out at this junction.
WATTERS: Well, he does like to fire people.
Directly ahead, President Trump turns up at heated rally in the Miami calling on Cuba to return a fugitive cop killer to the U.S. Details when we return.
PERINO: President Trump was back on the road today holding a rally in Miami where he is dramatically demanded that Cuba return a brutal cop killer to the United States. This woman, Joanne Chesimard also known as Assata Shakur shot and killed a New Jersey state trooper back in 1973. Instead of spending the rest of her life in jail, she's been living a good life in Cuba for over 30 years after escaping from a New Jersey prison with the help of her pals and the Black Liberation Army.
President Obama made a big splash when he reopened diplomatic relations with the communist island in 2015. But he made no mentioned on Miss Chesimard when touting his Cuba initiative outraging New Jersey state troopers of all stripes. President Trump is taking a much stronger line with the country demanding the communist send back Miss Chesimard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I say put an end to the abuse of dissidence. Release the political prisoners. Return the fugitives from American justice, including the return of the cop killer Joanne Chesimard. The harboring of criminals and fugitives will end. You have no choice. It will end.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So if you have been watching "The Five" for several years, that's not the first time you've heard of this (inaudible). Greg, you actually brought our attention back in 2013.
GUTFELD: We've talked about her four or five times. Chris Christie brought it up once and we've been covering it. She killed a New Jersey state trooper named Werner Foerster, and she's been free ever since. And trump went right after the deal, and we got nothing in this deal.
Trump was right to kill this deal because it is a deal, because we got nothing in this deal. Obama didn't even ask for Chesimard or Morales the bomb maker. So what Trump is doing is that that deal is done, we want (inaudible), we want a better deal. We might not be equal in the deal, but we are going to get these people back. I want -- maybe this is controversial, I don't care anymore.
GUTFELD: You can make a direct -- you can make a direct link between from Chesimard to the Alexandria shooting, because there's a love affair with left-wing radical violence which began in the late 1960s and you saw that with the weather underground, the black panthers, even before that.
GUILFOYLE: You're right.
GUTFELD: Angela Davis who supplied gun that killed the judge. We have Chesimard who killed a cop. Chesimard was never retrieved because to some, she was a romantic hero. When you're a radical leftist, you can kill, you can kill.
PERINO: It's actually interesting because, you know, I watch "Madam Secretary," and not too long ago, they had an episode of the re-opening with Cuba, and they have this Chesimard-type character, but actually in the show, she actually didn't commit the crime.
GUTFELD: Right, of course.
PERINO: And they convinced her to come back. And she comes back to a hero's welcome.
PERINO: Isn't actually adequate. Kimberly, the president also talked...
GUILFOYLE: Don't you hate creative license?
PERINO: The president also talked very passionately about human rights conditions and basically saying that -- and since President Obama made that deal, the conditions have actually worsened in the country.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, again, this is another example of a bad deal, just like the Iran deal. Why not, you know, use the power and the might of the United States to effectuate good throughout the world? For example, bad shame on you, do not harbor fugitives and people who execute police officers, and why don't you get something in return for once to do something and do the right thing?
Why do we have to bend over backwards and play by their rules and on their terms when we actually have power and influence and leverage to actually accomplish some greater good? This was the easiest thing in the world for President Obama to ask for at the time.
Instead, he gave them everything, we get nothing back in return. I think what President Trump did makes a lot of sense and again, it was something that he honored and obviously Marco Rubio has been pressing on this issue for quite some time and you could tell that he was delighted.
PERINO: And yet, Juan, the policy was not completely rolled back. The Obama-- basically, the wet foot, dry foot policy has not changed. The embassies remained open. What does change, you can travel, but you can't go (inaudible) cultural trip anymore, it has to be actual travel.
You're still allowed to send money to family if you are there. But the one thing that changes is that Americans doing business there, you actually have to pay the business, not the military. I think that's one of the biggest things that President Trump did today.
WILLIAMS: Right. I mean, you know, the argument that comes from the left is, you know what, he didn't change that much. The embassies will still be open as you just said, the (inaudible) is there in terms of trade, you keep going.
PERINO: Yeah, (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: They also allowed to use U.S. dollars. The reason that it is not reasonable is that what you get is we had a failed policy that has allowed a communist state to remain in place at our doorstep for 50 plus years.
And President Obama was making an effort to try to change this dynamic and part of it was taking American democratic values into Cuba and encouraging our economic interest because I think it would demonstrate to the Cuban government and the Cuban people, in specific, the virtues of capitalism.
What we're doing now is pulling back. And, you know, Ben Rhodes, who was the leader in terms of the Obama efforts said today, he said Trump doesn't care about human rights in Cuba.
GUTFELD: Because he got to make a deal with Iran.
WILLIAMS: Trump is making a political play here and somehow you get some of the old Cuban-Americans, not the younger ones, who want to see change, buying into this.
PERINO: But why...
WILLIAMS: This is a total political move.
GUTFELD: Rhodes is a fraud.
WILLIAMS: I'll quote Jeff Flake, who said, you know what, he's talking about having a Republican senator to just lift this whole embargo. Stop it.
PERINO: Jesse, one of things that President Obama didn't do was to try to separate out the payment act, the payment issue, the payment actually. If you go there, you're actually paying the Cuban military which was perpetrating a lot of the humanitarian issues.
WATTERS: Right. So...
GUILFOYLE: (inaudible) the money.
WATTERS: Yes, so now, we don't have to pay the military and that's good. So if you go over there, you pay the people, because the people are not doing too well over there in Cuba. I mean, it is shocking we have a communist nation (inaudible) like that that is jailing and torturing dissidents and trafficking with North Korea.
GUILFOYLE: And harboring fugitives in Venezuela.
WATTERS: And harboring fugitives in Venezuela. I honor President Obama's desire to change the dynamic in that relationship and open up that country, but he did it in a wrong way. You don't reward a dictator and go over there and do a wave at a baseball game.
And send all that dollar over there and it goes directly to the military and then let these cop killers stay. This deal had no teeth. President Trump came in there and said we are going to rip this deal up and we are willing to go back to the negotiating table. I think that's a win for America.
PERINO: We got to run or else we won't have time for "Facebook Friday."
PERINO: All right. Directly ahead, a young woman is convicted of manslaughter for sending texts. We will tell you what that's all about after this quick break.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Carter's actions and also her failure to act where she had a self-created duty to Mr. Roy since she had put him into that toxic environment, constituted each and all wanton and reckless conduct. This court now finds you guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: That was a Massachusetts judge convicting 20-year-old Michelle Carter of involuntary manslaughter. A major surprise to most legal observer. Ms. Carter back in 2014 sent a barrage of texts to her teenage boyfriend telling him to kill himself. Conrad Roy III soon thereafter committed suicide. Ms. Carter now faces up to 20 years in jail when she's sentenced on August 3rd.
Now, just to draw the picture for you, he was in a car and he's texting with her, and the gases are collecting in the car, and she tells him to get back in the car where he died. Now, Massachusetts doesn't have a law against encouraging suicide, but you got a situation where she says, she cared for him, he was terribly depressed, and I don't want to have him live this way anymore. Kimberly, what do you think?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, well, I mean, I think it is very clear that she had a direct role that was essentially a cause of his death. She tried to take a chance by saying, okay, I'm going to go with the judge. She thought she would fare better than going in front of a jury trial. Wrong. She has sociopathic tendencies. Very clearly this person is a danger to others.
That's been demonstrated. There are over thousand Facebook and text messages between them to substantiate and document this. All she had to do was let a family member know. Instead, she might as well put a gun to his head. I think that she even acted even further than involuntary manslaughter.
I feel that she acted with implied malice which is acting in conscious disregard of a known risk. This man was suicidal. He was depressed. That has likely resulted in great bodily injury or death. And she kept telling him to get back in the car to kill himself. So, feel a little bit better when she is behind bars.
WILLIAMS: So, Jesse, you have the ACLU now saying, wait a second, if you do put in a law like that, it would impede end-of-life discussions among family members, your doctor, what do you say?
WATTERS: I don't know. It's a tough call. I mean, if the ACLU says something, it usually go the other way.
GUILFOYLE: You're a risk taker.
WATTERS: In this case, it seems like she is liable. She is culpable. I think it is just like yelling fire in a theater or, you know, maybe not putting the gun to someone's head, but if you're egging someone on to that extent and you have to be liable either as an accessory, inciting something, I don't know what the correct legal terminology is, you know, free speech has limitations.
It is not completely free. And if your free speech ends up causing someone to die, as a direct result, then I think you have to face the music. She is going to face it. Twenty years is a long time.
WILLIAMS: Well, we don't if she will get 20 years, but she is going to get something apparently now. Dana, one of the interesting aspects is that she was not present. Let's just be clear. She's not present at the scene. They are communicating. But today, his family was quite pleased with the verdict.
PERINO: They were -- I think it's difficult and sort of groundbreaking because now the evidence that you're using is text messaging and social media. That is kind of breaking new ground in legal front. I think Kimberly could have used those types of things in court.
PERINO: I would say that the prosecutor today, I thought it very well, she said, there are no winners today.
WILLIAMS: That's a sad case. Greg?
GUTFELD: Three things. I do think there is a winner. Justice. Number one.
GUILFOYLE: Not reality winner.
GUTFELD: Number one, if the ACLU is worried that they should impede end of life discussions, that's good. Because end of life discussions should be extremely difficult. Because end of life discussion is usually quote for putting mom and dad to sleep. So, it's important to make that as difficult as possible, not make it impossible, but make it hard, make it hard.
Number two, why did she do this? According to the prosecutors and I believe this to be true, for the drama of it. To be famous as a grieving girlfriend. Very Romeo and Juliet of this kind of like thing. It's like the majestic death scenes. The third thing is, you know, she didn't kill him with her hands, but she goaded him to death.
How similar is this to the discussion that we've been having in the last week about goading people to death or to commit death? This is a (inaudible) seems to me to be very related. Especially through the internet that you can actually cause somebody to do something. I don't know what the answer is, but I think today was the right answer.
GUILFOYLE: I think you made an absolutely outstanding point because you see kind of the nexus (ph) and all these connected together. And why have we produced now, coming up a generation of Americans, they have no empathy for others, they have become incredibly desensitize through the use of social media that you can hide and bully others over social media, over Twitter, on Facebook.
And then also encourage somebody who literally entrust you with their life, supposed to be a loved one you're looking after, to kill themselves and a beautiful life of a young man ended.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think that is the negative side. I think, you know, when you think about people coming to end of life and looking for a way possibly to end on their terms, you also have to consider what is going on. She was on it.
GUILFOYLE: It's completely dissimilar. That is with terminal illness.
GUTFELD: In other countries, they are allowing young people to commit suicide based on depression.
WILLIAMS: We are talking about end of life. Anyway, don't move, we are going to have this discussion other time. Don't move because "Facebook Friday" is something far more uplifting.
GUTFELD: "Facebook Friday" ran out of a TV theme song, so I'm moving on to movies. One of the greatest movie ever.
GUILFOYLE: Are you mailing it in?
GUTFELD: No, but I'm going to mail this in Facebook. I'm going to go to you, Juan, first. From Grant J. What three things, not people, would you want to have during a zombie apocalypse?
WILLIAMS: Oh, boy.
GUTFELD: I bet you not gun control.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'll take it because that's the living apocalypse.
GUTFELD: That only the zombies love guns.
WILLIAMS: Look, I tell you what, it must be the wrong movie. I must have turned it on to the wrong movie. But I think the thing I would just to be creative about it would be I would say property rights to cemeteries because that would high and then I would be able to sell a property once the zombies are gone.
GUTFELD: Very clever. Very clever. Kimberly, what three things would you want to have during a zombie apocalypse?
GUILFOYLE: All I want is to pick people.
GUTFELD: Well, you can't.
GUTFELD: You can pick zombie people.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. I would like to have an extra sharp machete.
GUILFOYLE: I would like to have some explosives.
GUILFOYLE: I would like to have some sort of like a bayonet stabbing something, oh, at least a 6-inch blade.
GUTFELD: There you go.
GUILFOYLE: You put it ear to ear.
GUTFELD: That's how you stop a zombie. I just want to make that clear, America.
GUILFOYLE: Or human.
GUTFELD: Okay. Jesse?
WATTERS: I would just have one thing. Just one long thing of fabric I would wrap myself to look like a zombie and then I will just blend in.
PERINO: What if they heard your voice?
GUTFELD: "Watters' World" would be great in a zombie apocalypse.
WATTERS: We actually did a zombie run "Watters' World" edition last year.
GUTFELD: Talking to zombies.
GUILFOYLE: You'll never love those.
PERINO: Okay. I'm starving right now, so I'm going to go with a food theme. I want chips and salsa, frozen (inaudible) plain salted dark chocolate.
PERINO: Peter, if you're listening, please bring that in the car.
GUILFOYLE: Wait a second, when did you have a frozen (inaudible)?
PERINO: I never had one. They have them two blocks down. And because I don't drink before shows, I've never had one, but I saw one and I want one.
GUTFELD: Yeah, that's for sure. Three things I would want...
GUTFELD: ... in a zombie apocalypse...
PERINO: I haven't had one.
GUTFELD: I would want a knife and a fork and a plate because I would immediately become a zombie. Once you're a zombie, you wouldn't be scared. So, why are running from zombies if there is a zombie apocalypse? Just become a zombie and all of a sudden you're fine.
GUILFOYLE: Why would you bring a knife and a fork and a plate?
GUTFELD: If I knew this is a zombie apocalypse, I would kill myself so I still look great.
WATTERS: The zombies use their mouths. They don't use utensils.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute.
GUTFELD: No, I would be a really cultured zombie.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, wait a minute. After the last segment, you can't kill yourself.
GUTFELD: No, I mean in the zombie apocalypse.
GUTFELD: And I would be a very cultured, sophisticated zombie. I would have zombie dinner parties. They can all come over and have a plate. We would listen to really good jazz.
GUILFOYLE: You know what? You should stick to robots.
GUTFELD: All right.
GUILFOYLE: Because you're better with that.
GUTFELD: "One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: Let's (inaudible), shall we?
WILLIAMS: I can put my legs there.
GUILFOYLE: Okay, perfect.
GUILFOYLE: "One More Thing" (inaudible) Jesse, what do you have?
WATTERS: Everybody was wondering, probably not, where I went yesterday. I went to Shakespeare in the Park. There is a little soundbite.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The actor himself looks (inaudible) hand gestures and tweets. He was like on his phone all the times.
WATTERS: Was your favorite part when Trump was assassinated?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was one of the highlights.
WATTERS: Or low lights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: That's right. Watters' World Saturday night at 8 o'clock. "Watters' World" goes to Shakespeare in the Park.
GUILFOYLE: That was kind of a quick clip.
WATTERS: I don't want to give away everything.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Juan?
WILLIAMS: Father's day is Sunday, happy father's day. This week, I was talking to "The Five" producers. And all of a sudden, one of them, Robert Samuel, got a call, his wife had just gone into labor. He left in a hurry.
I'm happy to report she gave birth to Robert Lee Samuel IV. And we should note the baby's great grandfather, Robert Lee Samuel Sr., is in the hospital right now. We are keeping him in our prayers.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, pray for him.
WILLIAMS: And then a few days later, guess what? I learned that Colleen Williams (ph), editing supervisor for Fox's Washington bureau, gave birth to a beautiful baby girl named Kylana (ph). I hope I got that right. Colleen's husband, Amik (ph), is very proud and way to go. What do you say? What's the proper pronunciation? Kellyanna (ph). Welcome to the world.
GUILFOYLE: Beautiful name.
WILLIAMS: Happy father's day everybody.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, and we are praying for Robert Samuel's father too as well.
GUTFELD: Time for this. "Greg's Amazing Plugs." Anyway, tomorrow night, my show at 10 o'clock. It's great. We got Kat, Tyrus, Dave (inaudible). Huge, huge surprise at the end of the show. You got to stick around for it. It will all blow your mind. And then my podcast. Go to foxnewspodcast.com.
Here is why. Stewart Copeland, legendary drummer for the police. You want to listen to this podcast. He talks about his family. His dad was an original CIA agent behind some of the biggest, most unbelievable coups around the world. It will blow your mind.
PERINO: It's a good podcast. I listen to it.
GUTFELD: Oh, thank you, Dana.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. Dana?
PERINO: So what if a golden retriever has been attending Lucky Puppy Daycare Center for nine years, always afraid to jump into the pool. That changed a few days ago after he pulled away from one of the caretakers. He finally took the plunge after nine years. He got to have a little swim. Look at how happy he is to.
GUILFOYLE: How much was that bill? Nine years of puppy training?
GUILFOYLE: Time for "Honoring Heroes." I want to congratulate 90-year-old World War II veteran William Tobin who graduated yesterday from high school in Vernon, Connecticut. Back in 1944, Tobin left high school early to serve in the navy during World War II. When he returned, he married, he built a home, and he raised three beautiful kids.
GUILFOYLE: A high school diploma was always something that was on his bucket list. Yesterday he got to fulfill that dream. God bless him and all of the veterans who served, and all of the fathers out there. Very happy father's day to all of you out there. God bless you. Have a great weekend. Mr. Hannity is up next.
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