ObamaCare fan finds she can't afford it

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 19, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Tantaros, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City -- and this is "The Five."


TANTAROS: Well, President Obama just wrapped up an interview that we'll tell you about in a moment.

But, first, when the president started to realize that this Obama rollout was going to be a big problem, he tried to convince Americans that we would be better off under his plan. He tried to find success stories like this.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I recently received a letter from a woman named Jessica Sanford in Washington state. Here's what she wrote, "I am a single mom, no child support, self-employed. And I haven't had insurance for 15 years because it's too expensive. I was crying the other day when I signed up, so much stress lifted."

That's what the Affordable Care Act is all about.


TANTAROS: But that single mom's excitement quickly turned to disappointment. Jessica Sanford has now learned the Affordable Care Act isn't going to be affordable for her after all.


JESSICA SANFORD, SINGLE MOM: It was a huge disappointment and especially since I had -- my story had been shared by the president, I felt like -- I just felt really embarrassed that he had, you know, quoted my story and then come to find that the Washington Health Plan Finder, the Web site here in our state, had grossly miscalculated or they're having a problem figuring their tax credits. And so, at least for right now, I don't -- I'm not going to be getting insurance.


TANTAROS: Well, millions of Americans are frustrated with the president and his deceit and it's showing in the polls. Opposition to ObamaCare has just hit a record high, 57 percent oppose it. And Gallup says more than half the country doesn't think the government should be involved in our health care in the first place.

So, Greg, before we get into the poll numbers, most politicians use these stories.


TANTAROS: Like Sam in Iowa, I was on a farm and met John, a small business owner.


TANTAROS: They can come back and bite politicians if they're not vetted properly. This one turns out to be a horror story, much like the woman they initially put on the Web site, who wasn't even a citizen. Now, two women are embarrassed.

GUTFELD: Yes, you know you're in trouble when you're props are falling apart. It's like a grade school version of Pippin.

You know, I think Obama is a genius because he realizes that laughter is really the best medicine, and ObamaCare in a way lowers your stress by being hilariously incompetent. So, in a way he's making us all feel better by being such a disaster.

But I have to say, you know, the big question here is this problem for him temporary or is it forever? Because he's been able to extricate himself from everything and move on as if nothing has happened. But this to me feels like quick sand. This is his greatest achievement and it's flimsier than his first pitch.

I mean, I don't know how he gets out of this.

TANTAROS: That was a bad pitch.

GUTFELD: It's the worst pitch. By the way, I mean, no, the greater good is now the worser bad. He's taught everybody when big government succeeds, big government is evil.

TANTAROS: And, Dana, if you look forward to 2014, you have to anticipate a lot of these businesses are probably going to start to drop coverage because that employer mandate will be running out right up into the point of the midterm elections.

So, tell us a little bit about how a president gets these stories? I mean, should he be angry at the person that handed him the story? Maybe the same person that told him the Web site was good to go.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, the interesting thing for him is that later on, that woman Jennifer Sanford, she actually doesn't blame the president. This is amazing. She says she doesn't blame the president. She doesn't blame the White House. She actually blamed the state.

This has never happened to any other president. He has some sort of ability to just have all negativity rebound off of him on to somebody else. And so what they do is the political office will gather all sorts of people sending in information on Twitter or Facebook and they'll just scour it and look for good stories to tell.

And I think storytelling when it's factual can be very powerful because it helps you think about, oh, OK, so that explains like that my neighbor or my sister or my mom, OK, I can visualize it. That's why Americans and all humans have told stories over the years. It helps you explain something. When it turns out not to be true -- obviously, that's the problem.

I want to mention one thing about what President Obama said earlier today in this interview. He talked about what they have learned with respect to setting up marketplaces, is setting those things up is very challenging mechanically.

And I think that's the lesson that Americans are learning right now, is that government doesn't set up marketplaces well. The marketplace exists, and leave it alone and then we'll hopefully have the results that we would want. Not hopefully. That's how the marketplace works. It does work.

GUTFELD: It can't make anything. It can only take things when it tries to make something.

TANTAROS: Eric, Senator Marco Rubio had an excellent editorial where he warned about another problem that we've talked about here and you've talked about on "CASHIN' IN," and that is the subsidies that are going to be flying out the door, especially to these insurance companies. I would have to imagine, if you're a shareholder, if you're investing in one of these companies, Eric, you've got to be pretty furious and you want to know what are the financial implications.

If I'm an insurance CEO, I'm going -- you got to prompt me up. You promised me all these new enrollees. Where are they?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes, we talked about a little bit yesterday. And what the concern is, is that ObamaCare pushed the insurance companies to take high risk insurees. They said you have to do it, pre-existing conditions, et cetera, along the lines. And they weren't sure how much it was going to cost them.

Insurance companies pushed back and little known fact in the ObamaCare said, don't worry, we got the backside. If you're paying out too much money, we're going to come back and pay you for it. But CBO never scored it. So, it was never part of how much ObamaCare was sold to us it was going to cost. So, we don't know.

I've been doing homework for two days on this and I can't find it. I've called the Kaiser Foundation. Our brain room can't figure it out. It could be in the billions of dollars of transfer payments that's going to come from Congress to go the insurance companies.

But we've talked about what this is. We're talking about this woman, Jennifer Sanford. She's having a problem with the real issue here with ObamaCare. It's not the Web site. Remember the analogy it's a hooker with a cold sore, the cold sore --

PERINO: Stripper.

BOLLING: Stripper with a cold sore -- cold sore is going to go away, but she's still a stripper. But we're finding out ObamaCare is worse than a stripper. She's a hooker. The costs are skyrocketing.

Hold on --

TANTAROS: Actually, shouldn't be that she still has herpes?

BOLLING: The tax credits are going to cost billion upon billions of dollars, helping out the insurance companies are going to cost billions. But again, the big one, I'll say it again, it's the deductibles, the families that can't afford to put the $3,000 or $5,000 up in front that they're going to have to do, if you have ObamaCare, you have to -- it's to go out of your pocket first. Maybe you'll get your tax credit.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Do most of them have deductibles now?

PERINO: Not like this.

BOLLING: Not this size, nowhere near -- some of these deductibles, Bob, are 10 times what these families are used to paying.

TANTAROS: Ten times, and his poll numbers have taken a hit, Bob. You know polls very, very well. The president was out today and he was trying to spin these negative polls. Take a listen to President Obama trying to spin. Basically, his new argument is -- well, it's all relative because in Washington, everyone is doing bad.


OBAMA: We just have to break through the stubborn cycle of crisis politics and start working together. More obstruction, more brinksmanship, won't help anybody. It doesn't help folks politically. My understanding is nobody in this town is doing particularly well at the moment, when it comes to the opinions of the American people. But it certainly doesn't help anybody economically.


TANTAROS: Is that the right message, Bob? Well, I'm not doing well, but Republicans aren't either, so who cares? Whatever.

BECKEL: It's -- right now, Obama is in a position where he's getting perilously close to not -- I mean, I think it would be very difficult to pass any major piece of legislation in the remainder of the second term. When you get down around -- you hover around the 40 percent mark, something has to come along to bring that back up and I don't see anything on the horizon save some war or something that we don't know about that's going to do that.

Now, having said, the real issue as far as I'm concerned is what does it do to the Democrats in 2014? I don't think you can take the emotions and feelings about ObamaCare today and transplant them 12 months and say, OK, that's going to be the election. One thing we are seeing in states where the state decided to take on this project themselves, they're doing very, very well. California, Kentucky, Minnesota, Connecticut are running way ahead of what they projected where people signing up.


BECKEL: It's the states where they had to go to the federal --

BOLLING: Stop, Bob.

BECKEL: Wait a minute, which were almost all Republican states.

BOLLING: No state is doing no insurance market, state or federal, is doing above what they projected.

BECKEL: California --


PERINO: In Kentucky, they have lost --

BECKEL: California, Kentucky and --

PERINO: In Kentucky, more people have lost their plans more than have signed up for a plan.

BECKEL: Well, if you can believe, I suppose with all these things with the statistics where he keep hearing, I know the governor of Kentucky says that the thing has been highly successful. In California, they signed up triple what they did the first two weeks.

BOLLING: Yes, but that's not what they projected.


BOLLIING: They projected 500,000 by the end of the first -- by the end of November 15 --


BECKEL: In California?

BOLLING: No. Totally, by November 15th, they got 100,000. They got 20 percent of what they projected.

BECKEL: I'm talking about individual states.

PERINO: Oregon didn't sign up a single person.

TANTAROS: I actually get -- I get what Bob is trying to say.

I get what you're trying to say.

It's all relative. That's the argument they're trying to make, right? So, they're saying instead of these thousands and hundreds of thousands they predicted, 12 people signed up maybe in the states that was 15. So the numbers we got last week from Kathleen Sebelius were slightly better in the states, but they are way below as Eric points out what the White House said they would be.

Greg, here is the future of the argument leading in to 2014 what Bob said, he foreshadowed -- President Obama did that as well today. He says basically we wouldn't be having all these problems if Republicans would have been more invested in making this work.



OBAMA: What was already going to be hard was operating within a very difficult political environment and we should have anticipated that that would create a rockier rollout than if Democrats and Republican were both invested in success. One of the problems we've had is one side of Capitol Hill is invested in failure and that makes I think the kind of iterative process of fixing glitches as they come up and fine tuning the law more challenging.


TANTAROS: Aha, you heard it! It's the Republicans' fault.

GUTFELD: Well, apparently, he believes that one side is invested in failure while the other side achieves failure. The thing you got to point out, you know, last night, he had this conference call and you had to find a Web site to get on the conference call to talk about the failed ObamaCare Web site. It turned out the Web site that you needed to get on to discuss failed Web site also failed.

So I'm wondering if they're going to get another Web site up to discuss the failed Web site that was used to discuss the failed Web site. In this way, that is the beauty of bureaucracy, incompetence continues to breed jobs. And it will never end.

TANTAROS: It will be the Republican --

GUTFELD: It's the jobs program that's ever worked.


PERINO: That conference call was -- the invitation was sent out to his partisan army. So, when he talks about brinksmanship and political crisis and governing that way, do you really think it's a good idea then to just focus on your Democratic army?

I also think that he sounds increasingly and constantly resentful and antagonistic and aggressive toward opponents that are pointing out. I mean --


BECKEL: Don't you think he should against Republicans who did absolutely nothing about health care? Nothing, zero?

GUTFELD: But, Bob, you are one that say, that when somebody tells you have a problem, you should admire that person, right?

PERINO: Who did zero?

BECKEL: Republicans did zero.

PERINO: Did zero on what? Because they didn't vote for a bill they disagree with, you think --


BECKEL: No, no, it's not that. But what I believed all along that the Republicans basically think that entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid should go away and go back to the states.

TANTAROS: How was that their fault, though, Bob? Even your advice was to stay away and let Democrats own this mess.

BECKEL: No, what I said --


TANTAROS: What do you expect them, to try to fix it?

BECKEL: What I said, when you asked me that, the question politically. What I'm saying is the Republicans -- Obama is right to this extent. The Republicans have done nothing about dealing with the health care crisis in this country except harp on ObamaCare. They have offered up nothing that makes any sense to me.

TANTAROS: That's why we're here (ph).


BECKEL: Some on Social Security but not on Medicare.

BOLLING: You've given you alternatives, Bob. You don't want to hear them.

Here's the answer, though. There's one solution and this is only solution he's going to have to come to, has to -- you have to remove the mandate. You just can't do it. You can't fine people for not having insurance they can't get and don't want.

BECKEL: And then the whole thing falls apart. It falls apart at that point.

BOLLING: And it should. And it should.

BECKEL: Well, that's my point. You guys want this all to fall apart.


BECKEL: You want to see Medicare and Medicaid go away.

TANTAROS: It's never about getting people coverage. It's just about getting votes.

BECKEL: No, it was not --


GUTFELD: You know what I think they should do, they should name a book case after ObamaCare.

TANTAROS: That no one can put together the failure?

GUTFELD: Yes, and falls apart after three months.

PERINO: The return line (INAUDIBLE) is longer than the purchase line.


TANTAROS: All right. Ahead, more credibility problems for the administration and it's not just ObamaCare. Yes, new developments in the IRS scandal and the administration possibly cooking the books on job numbers during last year's election. Remember that?

And later, George Zimmerman back in court. We'll tell you what happened, coming up.


GUTFELD: You missed the best break ever.


GUTFELD: Dana just flipped out on Bob. But Andrea just flipped out on Bob. Then Bob yelled at Eric. And Eric said shut up. And then Andrea said something. It was awesome.

Anyway, I lost my train of thought.

Oh, "The New York Post" reports that a Census Bureau fudged data to make the jobs outlook appear rosier. According to census documents, the worker Julius Bachman (ph) was told to make stuff up by higher ups. One insider says the deception happened during a time when Obama really needed help to win re-election, of course.

I say this is deja vu, but I don't want to offend the French. But this is really getting old. Solyndra, Fast and Furious, the IRS, the DOJ, Benghazi, Snowden, ObamaCare, the IRS again, now the Census. It's like the scandals are chocolates on a conveyor belt and President Obama is Lucy.

You remember that.

So what did "The New York Times" do? They blamed Republicans for questioning their lack of trust in Obama. Amazing. It's like blaming a sane person for not being as crazy as you.

But that's not the issue. Politicians lie, that's how they reproduce.

But it's not really about Obama's lie. It's about the willingness to parrot them to the masses. The real culprit is the propaganda machine, that fifth column of columnist will say anything to protect their guy.

The media are the paid witnesses who come forward not to report a crime, but to establish an alibi. He didn't lie. It's a glitch. It's your fault for having subpar policies.

So the media swallows the lies and regurgitates them as fact, all to hide a simpler fact, there is no there there. President Obama has now become the Oakland of presidents, better seen from a speeding train on Pluto.

Eric, I want to go to this because you interviewed Jack Welch a while ago, about this very topic. In which you guys were way ahead of the curve and you were discussing this odd thing going on with the census or the unemployment numbers.

Let's roll this tape.


JACK WELCH, FORMER G.E. CEO: Look, I don't know what the right number is, but I'll tell you, these numbers don't smell right when you think about where the economy is right now.

BOLLING: The problem is the household survey which is the unemployment rate.

WELCH: Phone calls.

BOLLING: Phone calls, 60,000 phone calls. A little room for error in that one, though.

WELCH: Assumptions. Little room for assumptions.

BOLLING: You're being nice.

WELCH: It's just ironic that these --

BOLLING: Why are you being nice now?

WELCH: It's just -- no, I'm not being nice. I'm saying what I believe -- it's just ironic that these assumptions all came this way the month before the election. You draw your own conclusions.


GUTFELD: Now, Eric, now, is that could be seen as conspiracy theory, but when you have this stuff coming out now, what happens?

BOLLING: So, I'll tell you how that came about. For about a couple months prior to that, I was watching the numbers and they weren't adding up. I'm trying to figure out why the unemployment rate kept going down right in front of the election last year as no jobs were being created, 100,000 in a month, yet 500,000 people were somehow not counted. I said Congress should look into it.

I happened to host for Neil Cavuto one day and I said, can we get Jack Welch? And when Jack Welch comes in, and says the same thing. I've just called conspiracy theorist, I was taken apart for this conspiracy theory.

It turns out they weren't right. We were right. They had been cooking the books. A leak came out late last night, "The Post" reported it, they didn't know what to do, so they started fudging numbers and they were cooking the books.

The problem is they did it right in front of the election.


BOLLING: This was the month of the election.

GUTFELD: And, by the way, potential example of a similar experience with Benghazi and the IRS where they hide stuff and the media happily hides it for them.

TANTAROS: I was going to say, the intentional deceit that they went to, and the great lengths that they went to, to help him get an A on the exam. It was like they knew Obama couldn't get that A, so they helped him cheat.

So, they fudge the numbers. I think even "The New York Times," in very, very small print when this was going on actually explained that they did change the formula. Oh, that's interesting. They changed the math to get that job number.

They also had to create a lie, as you point out, about the video in Benghazi. They had to target conservative groups. I mean, think about that, Greg, they were so unsure of themselves they had to go to this level in so many different ways and if you can keep your doctor, you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.

I mean, the level of lies on every issue, from health care to foreign affairs is jaw-dropping. But that's what they had to do. That's how not confident they were that President Obama could actually win based on his record.

GUTFELD: Bob, no surprise that the Census Bureau denies systemic manipulation, but even you yourself have said that, you know, they -- the White House does engage in certain dubious behaviors to win elections.

BECKEL: I didn't know it was quite that easy to cook the books. But, apparently, it may be. But I don't -- with all this stuff, with all this purportedly lying and cover-up and all the rest of this, it's just amazing to me that for some reason, this is all coming out now and not before.

Was this something that Benghazi, which I still think is a ridiculous argument all the way around. The IRS thing I still think is an important issue. But the rest of these things, I mean, cooking books and putting your best foot forward, I don't know of a presidential campaign of an incumbent president in history that has not cooked up their best --

BOLLING: Cooking -- having the -- Department of Labor changing the statistics.

BECKEL: Do I think that's OK? No. Would I have done it if I could have? Yes.

BOLLING: So, for the first time in four years, the unemployment rate went below 8 percent.

BECKEL: If I could have done it, I would have.

BOLLING: The week of the election?

BECKEL: Yes, if I could have done it, I would have.

BOLLING: Not whether you would have. Is it right to do it?

BECKEL: Is any of this stuff right? When you control the government, you're going to put the best foot forward you possibly can in everything you possibly can and be deceitful about it. If you want me to go back to every incumbent president running for second term, you know, we could -- Nixon is the paragon of this.

BOLLING: If you can cook the books, go ahead and cook away?

BECKEL: No, I said if you can cook the books that easily --

GUTFELD: Obama bought a restaurant.

BECKEL: If Obama, look --

TANTAROS: Top chef, he's top chef.

BECKEL: If he's done all this stuff this bad, let's just impeach him and get it over with.

GUTFELD: Finally, you're speaking my language. Dana, I just want to --

BECKEL: It's so overwhelming bad rap that I can't take it anymore.

GUTFELD: Census Bureau says, we have no reason to believe there was this manipulation. They deny all allegations of fraud.

However -- then, you have the House Oversight Committee saying, you know, we're taking this pretty seriously, we're going to investigate these claims. What do you make of this?

PERINO: Well, I think I was actually one of the people that said you are a conspiracy theorist, Eric, because I didn't believe that the Census Bureau and the bureaucrats could be that organized.


PERINO: But this whistleblower comes out yesterday, last night, "The New York Post" writes the story. And it is chilling to think that you have so many people in the government that work for the taxpayers that are willing to help a partisan election.

The interesting thing on the two states where they were making the phone calls, in their report, though, unemployment rates in those two states actually went up. So they say there are more whistleblowers to come out and there's more evidence. I think to have a full case, a finalized case, we need to see the rest of the evidence.

GUTFELD: All right.

BOLLING: Quick thought, though. So, look what happens. They play around the numbers in the BLS. They promise you, you can keep your doctor and we know that you couldn't (ph) -- they knew that they were saying it even though they couldn't. And then he gets reelected.

Don't forget all this stuff happened prior to that election.

TANTAROS: Oh, and al Qaeda is on the run. Don't forget that one.

BECKEL: It is on the run. We're trying to get around this table --

TANTAROS: It was on the run right until the consulate --


BECKEL: Around this table, he takes no credit for killing bin Laden.

TANTAROS: Right before our consulate.

GUTFELD: I gave him credit for that.


BECKEL: Yes, that's right. His responsibility for making sure that no people stood up there and took care of security in Benghazi, I mean, (INAUDIBLE). Just dump on him some more and we'll keep dumping and dumping and dumping. And then you leave the Republicans free of any responsibility for any of this stuff.

And I get back to this argument about, you know, you say about entitlements and the rest of it -- I still believe the Republican Party has contributed nothing to help Obama get anything done. Nothing.

TANTAROS: They didn't want Republican help.

GUTFELD: That's considered a compliment.

BECKEL: Obviously, it is. Around here it is, that's for sure.

TANTAROS: Yes, we don't want any part of it.

GUTFELD: I think America is like -- it's now become a giant bumper sticker, "It's not my fault."

BECKEL: Let's remember, they reelected him.

GUTFELD: I know. And now, they're paying for it.

All right. Coming up, one of the biggest movie producers literally, he's quite large, in Hollywood trashes America. He's quite handsome.

Next to him, the Toronto's adorable mayor. He trashes his city council.

And George Zimmerman continues to trash his life.

When "The Five" returns.


BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody.

Let's do another fan favorite lightning round of hot topics and provocative comments on today's news.

On today's menu, a Hollywood heavyweight, literally, a crack head mayor, and questionable character -- three pieces of sound, six minutes, let's go.

First up, Hollywood big shot producer and guy who should be thanking his lucky stars the gene pool dumped his substantial back side in a capitalist country.

Harvey Weinstein says he's embarrassed of America.


HARVEY WEINSTEIN, FILMMAKER: This is the only country where we don't have health care. Countries embarrassed around the world. And this is the only country in the world where we don't have a gun law. I've watched you talk about that.

Quite frankly, it's embarrassing. Obama is not embarrassing. The country is embarrassing.


BOLLING: Harvey is embarrassing.

Ands, go ahead.

TANTAROS: We don't have health care? Where does he live? There is no health care in the United States? He also said that countries embarrass us around the world.

Whose fault is that? President Obama's fault. I mean, was he paying attention with Vladimir Putin? I mean, seriously, I agree with you party is the embarrassment.

BOLLING: How likely that he should move? What do you think?

GUTFELD: Well, you know what, he reflects unanimous distaste for Hollywood, for America that's found in Hollywood. He's driven by guilt. It's like hating your parents.

He's gotten so much from America that he detests it. And he is the last person to be talking about embarrassment. I mean, the guy -- look at him.

BOLLING: I know.

TANTAROS: Countries that buy his movies, by the way, too.

BOLLING: The guy's produced some of the biggest movies ever in American history, but he's embarrassed by us.

PERINO: Well, just because he's talented as a movie director doesn't mean he's a good political spokesperson, in which he is not obviously for the country. I also just wonder where he's traveled in the world, the developing world and third world has no health care. That's what no health care looks like. It's quite different than America.

BOLLING: Quick thought on Weinstein, brother?

BECKEL: Yes, it was Obama's fault.

BOLLING: OK, very good, leave it right there.

Next up, a regular on American airwaves these days, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford took a break from doing crack and alcohol, got a little feisty with Matt Lauer this morning on the "Today" show.


ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: All they did is stab me in the back. And over issues, seam issues that I've admitted to that they do but nobody knows about it. That's dictatorship. And it's all personal. They aren't talking about my record.

We've all made mistakes, Matt. I'm not perfect. Maybe you are. Maybe other people are. I've made mistakes. I admitted to my mistakes.


PERINO: Is that Ben Bernanke?

GUTFELD: For every night this guy is on drugs, he's not in the constituent's wallets. I'd rather have a guy binging on crack than binging on bureaucracy and taxes.

BOLLING: Dana, he actually said, he wants to run for prime minister someday.

PERINO: So, Canada's long national nightmare continues. I heard that on the way up to Canada on the trip that people were saying to Matt Lauer please, please don't give him anymore attention. But he's an attention magnet. He can't stop.

BOLLING: On our Twitter and Facebook, people said why do we keep talking about it, because it's interesting, isn't it?

BECKEL: He's far less embarrassing than Obama is.


BOLLING: Very good, very good.


TANTAROS: You know what, Bob literally took the point and just pulled it out of my mouth. No, just kidding.

I think, finally, it's not one of our mayors. We covered Filner, we talked about the Weiner, we talked about Spitzer. For once I'm actually glad we're talking about one that's not our own.

BOLLING: Very good.

The last loser on the rundown -- recently acquitted George Zimmerman back in a familiar prison jump suit, this time domestic abuse, here is the 911 call that landed him in hot water.


DISPATCHER: Where is his weapon at?

SCHEIBE: He just put it down. Do not push me out of my house. Please get out of my house.

He knows how to do this.


SCHEIBE: He knows how to play this game.


BOLLING: Let's bring it around the table.


BECKEL: This just underscores my point about you allow a gun in the hands of a guy like this who is psychotic, obviously. In my mind, it just proves that he shot and killed a poor teenaged kid and the guy she should have been in jail for murder and not been allowed to go out there and terrorize this woman. Put guns in hands of unstable people like this, give them the front of whatever that ridiculous law is in Florida about stand your ground and you're going to find people like this and they're much more dangerous than Trayvon Martin ever was.

GUTFELD: My point is this story is always in my mind reflected the flaws of the media when discussing stories like this. They give you two choices here. Either you're for Trayvon Martin or you're for George Zimmerman. I always was on the feeling that Zimmerman was a scale (ph). He's a guy that was looking to be a hero. And he should not have a gun.

And that Trayvon Martin was not an innocent person to begin with. But the fact is he didn't deserve to die. These two -- something happened between these guys that we'll never know. But I don't know why we always had to choose a side on this thing. It just wasn't any good all around.

BOLLING: Media likes to choose sides.

TANTAROS: They do and they want us to. And the reality is none of us was there to know exactly what happened.

But, look, a jury ruled. I just don't understand why when your life hangs in the balance the way that Zimmerman's did why you then go and behave like this. It points to a larger problem. At least Casey Anthony went away, at least she behaves now, at least she keeps her head low.

George Zimmerman now is abusing women?

BOLLING: We have to go, but I just have to push back a little bit because what he did yesterday doesn't have any bearing on what he's accused of doing a couple years ago.

BECKEL: Same person.

BOLLING: Same person.

BECKEL: Same mindset. Same idiot.

BOLLING: We're going to have to leave it there.

Next on "The Five" -- selfie is Oxford Dictionary's word of the year. Bob is upset because his favorite pastime twerking didn't make the cut.

Stick around for our best picks of the best selfies even including our own, coming on "The Five".


PERINO: Why bother asking someone else to take your picture if you can do it your selfie? Nice job, Joshua.

Selfie craze has become such a worldwide phenomenon that Oxford Dictionary just made it their word of the year. Everyone seems to take them these days. Kim Kardashian certainly has it down to a science.

And the pope even took a self portrait.

So when was the word first born? Oxford traced it back to an online post all the way back in 2002 from a self-proclaimed drunk Australian man who uploaded a pic and wrote a quote, "Sorry about the focus, it was a selfie."

Today, it's a very social day in American history or something like that, I don't know they kept running teleprompter.

So, OK, here is the thing. Michelle Obama had a cute one with their dog Bo. She got in on it. President Clinton had one. Check him out. There he goes.

President Bush even got one with the troop. But is this old fashioned. Look at that camera. One of the policemen handed that to him.

BECKEL: He got a picture of himself. He's got a camera in front of him right there.

PERINO: See? It's like a triple selfie. Someone taking a picture of you taking a picture of somebody else. It was like what Greg was explaining earlier. There is also this other one I like from space, it was an astronaut, which was -- that's a very cool one.

So we've all been doing it. We know the most famous one. What is the most famous selfie of the year? Anybody?

BOLLING: Don't say it. Kardashian.

PERINO: No, Weiner. He started the whole phenomenon.

GUTFELD: I thought you're going to say Geraldo.

PERINO: No, I would never say that. I would not do that.

GUTFELD: Yes, don't say Geraldo.

PERINO: Eric, did you have one you want to call for?

BOLLING: Yes. I didn't really want to do this. It's not a selfie thing - - Josh talked me into it. Roll it.

PERINO: OK, Eric --

BOLLING: It's coming.

PERINO: Oh, that's cute.

GUTFELD: Wait, an American flag in your selfie, Eric? That's a surprise.


PERINO: That's a good one.

OK. What about you, Bob? Do you have one?

BECKEL: I never ever heard of the word selfie until today. I don't know what it is. You took one -- apparently that is us in the green room.

PERINO: That is us.

BECKEL: All I can say is selfie this, I have no interest in it at all.

PERINO: OK, Andrea, do you have one?

TANTAROS: I do. I take selfies like sometimes to see if this outfit looks good. But I'm very bad of it. When I cut my hair, I took a selfie to show my family and say do you like it. And then there is the before.

BECKEL: You look like, never mind --

TANTAROS: And then there is before. See, it helps for girls --

PERINO: You look like Kate Middleton in that picture.

TANTAROS: I do? If you have long arms I find you can take really good selfies.

PERINO: Yes. Greg, do you ever run into that problem?

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

Do you remember the me generation? Now we're the look at me generation. And it's pathetic.

Remember, no one is as interested in how are you perceived as you. And I think year we're in a weird spot and defines this generation of all these idiots and asses like this wherever they go.

Knock it off. Nobody cares. You know what? If you can't find somebody to take your picture, don't take your picture.

PERINO: I took a cute one of us, though.

GUTFELD: That's not a selfie.

PERINO: That's, what?

GUTFELD: That's a bilfie. That's a bi-selfie.

BOLLING: Can I restate my vote for the best of the year? Do you have Jasper's loaded? That would be the best.

PERINO: I wasn't allowed.

TANTAROS: I thought Greg would like selfies more because then you're not bothered by people going can I take your picture, because knowing you, someone asks, will you take my picture? You'd go no.

GUTFELD: I like it when people --

PERINO: Do you know what the runner up word? Selfie won the Oxford Dictionary contest.

Twerk, that's a dumb one.


GUTFELD: Showrooming.

PERINO: Bitcoin.

And binge watching.

TANTAROS: On, I binge-watch.

PERINO: Binge-watching, I kind of like that one.

GUTFELD: Is that when you eat a lot of watches and throw them up? That's terrible. A lot of college kids are doing that.

PERINO: You can really tell time well.

GUTFELD: Ruins plumbing, see if you can take watches out of there.

PERINO: OK. I'm going to read this thing again. I started to earlier, today is a very special day in American history. President Abraham Lincoln delivered his Gettysburg address exactly 150 years ago. But how much do our kids know about on this date? We're going to tell you.

GUTFELD: I bet he wasn't honest.


REPORTER: What political party did Abraham Lincoln belong to?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man. I don't really know.


PERINO: Maybe it doesn't matter.

OK. There's more when "The Five" returns.



BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For score and seven years ago --

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT: Our fathers brought forth on this continent --

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: A new nation, conceived in liberty.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: And dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.


BECKEL: That was a clip from filmmaker Ken Burns project commemorating the 150th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's famous Gettysburg address, which we're remembering here today. All five living U.S. presidents participated with other noble Americans.

Lincoln's speech was one of the greatest in history and one we should all remember. But the truth is, some college kids don't know much about honest Abe.


REPORTER: What political party is Abraham Lincoln part of?


REPORTER: Take a guess.

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: Can I just have some options?




REPORTER: Take a guess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say was he a Democrat?


REPORTER: You got right.


BECKEL: All right. And, Greg, this probably underscores your point about the children who go to colleges to get themselves brainwashed about what is anti-American and socialism. Are you surprised that these kids didn't have any idea?

GUTFELD: No, because the Democrats with the help of academia, have managed to obliterate their leading role in race warfare. They were pro-slavery, pro-KKK, they are against rights for blacks, they didn't even have equality in public accommodations. They managed to make the Republicans look racist when they in fact invented it.


BOLLING: Follow up on that, can I go next?

OK, this is something that somehow has been lost in translation over the years that the 13th amendment which abolish slavery 100 percent Republican support, only 22 percent Democrat support. The 14th Amendment which granted citizenship to freed slaves 100 percent Republican support, zero percent Democrat support. And the 15 Amendment, which granted blacks the right to vote, 100 percent Republican support.

I'm just telling you -- those are the facts, Bob.

BECKEL: Speaking as -- Andrea, let me ask you, speaking as a racist myself here, that the -- now that we turned this into a bash Democrat segment, what about the fact that kids don't know much about the history? I mean, history seems to be the most important thing we can have and more and more people have no track of history at all?

TANTAROS: I think it's President Obama's fault. No, I'm just kidding, Bob.

The schools have gotten away from basic history, reading, writing, arithmetic. They are teaching the kids to do soup and compost. I mean, it's a larger problem and I agree with you. But I remember a friend of mine showed me his young child, an elementary school's textbook about history, and I have to say, Bob, if you read it, you would think Lincoln was a Democrat, the way that it was phrased.

I remember being outraged, thinking, they can't write it like that. And I do think that there has been a push by Democrat to long co-op Lincoln's legacy and maybe hide the Democratic Party and their behavior when he was president.

BECKEL: Do you agree with that, Dana?

PERINO: I am going to offer a contrary view. I think it doesn't matter if he is Republican or Democrat in their minds, they see him Abraham Lincoln as a great president. And I think that is fine with them. He belongs to the ages. He gave a speech that was so full of confidence.

It takes a confident person to get up and give a speech, that is so short and panned by everyone at the time. And, in fact, the editorial -- the paper that editorialized about it actually apologized this past weekend because they panned it back 150 years ago and they are still apologizing for it.

I think Abraham Lincoln is a great American president and I don't it matters if he's Republican or Democrat.

BECKEL: Exactly right, people do not forget that he was giving this before the bodies had been buried at Gettysburg, all of them that had not been buried. It was a tremendous --

GUTFELD: Why is he only --

PERINO: But he was a Republican.

BECKEL: OK. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: No, just cover.

TANTAROS: It's time now for "One More Thing".


TANTAROS: I'm doing my hair.

Dana is next.


PERINO: I was yawning.

GUTFELD: You were.

TANTAROS: You were yawning and I was doing my hair. We had a Bob moment.

PERINO: I just needed oxygen.



TANTAROS: We are on.

PERINO: My turn right now?


PERINO: "One More Thing"?


PERINO: OK. Do we have the music? Dun, dun, da, da, dun (ph). That's how we did one more thing.

We complain about daylight savings time because it's dark here early, but we have friends in Barrow, Alaska, who yesterday had their last sunset until January 22nd. They are all the way up there, Barrow, Alaska. They great people, they are four hours behind, they try to watch "The Five" when they can. The sun will not rise again until January 22nd. Sixty-five days away.


PERINO: All right. So send them good wishes.


BOLLING: OK, very quickly, again. A year ago going into the election, the numbers did not add up, watch.


BOLLING: We are missing, 342,000 jobs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean missing?

BOLLING: We are missing them, Steve. People that are not longer unemployed but the economy only created 114,000. I've never seen 342,000 jobs in one month.

Here's what I think -- if this doesn't correct a week from Friday, if this number doesn't fix itself, somehow saying we miscounted last month, I think Congress should investigate the Department of Labor.


BOLLING: All right. So, the left thought I was crazy. "Media Matters" put this headline up on of those stupid Web sites, "Bolling Pulls out of Thin Air," yes, right. Jon Stewart called me crazy. Crazy conspiracy theorist, bottom line, the numbers didn't add up.

PERINO: You should demand an apology.

BOLLING: You know, John, I'd love to talk to you sometimes, my man. Maybe.

TANTAROS: Wow, they go after you a lot.


GUTFELD: Look at this. It's my new book. You can pre-order it now.

BECKEL: God, we're starting this already?

GUTFELD: It's called "Not Cool" and it's how the desire to be liked by people who hate you can destroy your life and create disorder. You can pre-order at retailers or go to ggutfeld.com and you can preorder it there. That's my Web site. I'm telling you. This book, I'm telling you, will change your life.

Look at that, it's beautiful too.

PERINO: It looks like a self-help book.

GUTFELD: It's not a self-help book.


BECKEL: Don't forget, that book is called "Not Cool," and we want you to buy it because we're going to be advertising every single day here.

John Kennedy, this is the 50 anniversary of Kennedy's assassination this week. And he established the United States Peace Corps, if you look at the executive order.


JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT: I have today signed an executive order providing for the establishment of a Peace Corps on a temporary pilot basis. I'm also sending to Congress a message forwarding authorization of a permanent Peace Corps. This call will be a pool of trained men and women sent overseas by the United States government or through private institutions and organizations to help foreign countries meet their urgent need for skilled manpower.


BECKEL: Two hundred forty thousand Americans have gone to the Peace Corps. I was one of them, and I'm proud to have done that.

TANTAROS: All right.

PERINO: Agree.

TANTAROS: I'm on again, though? Just kidding.

All right. Emerson College in Boston for just one day on December 4th had decided to name its journalism school, the Ron Burgundy School of journalism, you know? It's kind of a big deal, folks. And you get that if you saw the movie. That's very, very funny.

Although, is there no one else that they can name the school after? What does that say about the media? Right? There's no one else, they named after the fictitious anchorman.

All right. That's it for us of "The Five." Thanks for watching. We'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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