NY lawmaker claims Cuomo covered up COVID data for financial interests
Democrat Assemblyman Ron Kim explains how governor allowed top donors to dictate coronavirus policy on 'The Story'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," February 18, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Thin Mints, too. Hi guys. Thank you very much. Thank you, Sandra and John. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Martha McCallum live here in New York. And right, now on THE STORY. We have an exclusive interview with The New York Democrat who is standing up to Governor Cuomo. He says the governor harangued and threatened him in a 10- minute phone call at his home to try to scare him into submission. The doctor, the governor's office denies this.
Ron Kim joins us live with his side of the story in moments. And by the way, this is really ramping up now, the FBI is investigating the governor's actions on nursing homes in New York during COVID. And also we've got President Biden and Kamala Harris on the campaign trail saying that they would be open to reparations paid in some way to the descendants of slaves. So, now, that topic is back on the docket on Capitol Hill watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): That is what we need a reckoning a healing reparative justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black Americans asking for a hand up not a handout.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Kimberly Klacik and Richard Fowler join us soon on that. We will also share with you my interview with Rush Limbaugh, way back in 2007. We had a really interesting conversation for about an hour at his EIB studios in Florida. We're going to show you some of this unearth video in just a little while. But first today, the year-long COVID battle lock, over lock downs comes head to head with this simple but hugely important question. And this kind of squishy non-answer to this very important question about the validity of lockdowns. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Contrast states like Florida and California. California basically in lockdown and their numbers aren't that different from Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's so much of this virus that we think we understand that we think we can predict that's just beyond, a little bit beyond our explanation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: A little bit beyond our explanation. I mean, this is the central question when you look at what's happened to the United States economy. So, you've got California and their way of doing things versus Florida. And it turns out that the numbers are in fact, similar. California's total number of COVID-19 cases as a percentage of their population is about 8.8, almost the same as you see in Florida.
Now, look at deaths as a percentage of that also very similar in the numbers that you can see here separated by two-tenths of a point even though each of these Governors Newsom and DeSantis took very different tactics in terms of how to handle this, in their states. Hard to really imagine any more important question, when you look at what we've faced over the last year. Congressman Michael Waltz represents his home state of Florida and he joins us now. Congressman Waltz, good to have you back on the program today. Thank you for being with us.
REP. MICHAEL WALTZ (R-FL): Yes. Sure, Martha.
MACCALLUM: A bunch of things I want to get through with you actually, you know, so your thoughts on that, first of all. Because, really, the central question, when you look at the havoc that has been wreaked in the economy, all across, I look, you know, outside my window here in New York, you know, half the windows are boarded up. Everything's closed. Thousands of people have left the city. These numbers show that it didn't, it didn't necessarily matter in the outcome.
WALTZ: No, that's right. I can answer his question. Biden's COVID advisor for him, it's lockdowns don't work. The data's prove that now, and common sense does work, and that's showing to be the case in Florida. And I would add one more thing to the statistics that you showed is Florida has one of the oldest populations in the country, and yet our numbers are the same, our economy is open, our kids are in schools.
And you know, companies like Disney are voting with their feet, with their major operations in both California shut down. They're moving it to Florida, and then the people are voting with their feet. But Martha, I think it really underscores really the governing philosophy difference between liberalism and conservatives. Liberals think government has all the answer. And Conservatives believe that people can make those decisions and the school issue I think, is the best case of it.
And Florida, we've been open since last August, and we give families the choice where they can go to school in person, they can do hybrid, or they can do virtual, if perhaps, they have someone that is vulnerable and exposed. But people you know, whether it's business owners don't want to get their customers or their employees sick. We let people decide what to do with their money, how to handle this virus and make the best decisions for themselves and that has not been their approach there.
MACCALLUM: Yes, and Governor Desantis, he said since the beginning, he wasn't going to find businesses that chose to stay open. He gave them the freedom to decide if they wanted to be open or didn't want to be open and people the freedom to decide whether or not they felt safe shopping, or not safe shopping. And when you look at these numbers, it turns out that it's roughly equal and you think about the benefit to the economy, to the businesses to the kids that got to go to school.
And as you say a lot of people are voting with their feet because they seem to be behind that idea. Speaking of teachers, watch this exchange on the "Today" show with Kamala Harris on the question of whether or not the Biden administration believes that they should go back to school and teach in the classroom or whether or not they should be vaccinated first. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you reassure teachers who are listening right now that it is safe for them to go back to school, even if they are not vaccinated?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Teachers should be a priority. Is it safe for them? Well, I think that we have to decide if we can put in place safe measures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CDC's own science says, schools are not a source of community risk.
HARRIS: Well, so here's the thing, what the CDC what they have recommended, are exactly that recommendation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You know, I am sorry, I have to, you know, just sort of chuckle because, you know, all through the Trump administration, right. Every time the CDC said something, it was gospel. And if the White House, you know, if there was any daylight between what they said and the White House and President Trump said, it was, you know, Armageddon, right. That's right now, you know, she's pointing out, oh, well, that's just their recommendation, why? Why do you think that is? Why do you think they hesitate to come down on the side of what the CDC is telling them?
WALTZ: Yes, that's the easy answer to and that's for the power of the Teachers Union, in democratic politics. I mean, it's just, it's straightforward, because we are demonstrating right now, we do not have massive debt mass deaths amongst our students, or teachers. You can do this in a way that makes sense. And in many of those lockdown states, the private schools are open. The thing that has me so upset about it, Martha is it's just class warfare.
If you're wealthy enough, you can send your kid to private school. If you're a white collar worker, you can stay at home and work with them. But if you're a construction worker, a maid, a waitress, what do you do with your kids locked down at home? And it's, it's, it's just wrong on so many levels, and why they won't own up to it and just take a common sense approach. One can only point to pure politics.
MACCALLUM: Lots more to talk about but we got to leave it there. I'm sorry. Representative Waltz, we'll see you soon, I hope. Thank you very much.
WALTZ: All right, for sure.
MACCALLUM: So, the FBI is probing Governor Cuomo's nursing home response. Ron Kim, a New York Democrat, who has been publicly pushing back on his own Governor, he's a Democrat, and so as Governor Cuomo. Now, he says that Governor Cuomo called him at his house at eight o'clock at night and yelled at him, threatened him for 10 straight minutes. The governor says that did not happen. Mr. Kim joins us with his side next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So, Governor Andrew Cuomo's actions during COVID now under FBI investigation. He also reportedly threatened to "destroy" Democratic New York Assemblyman Ron Kim, if Kim didn't help cover up the nursing home scandal. That is according to the New York lawmaker, who says that the Governor yelled and berated and threatened him during a 10-minute phone call to his home at 8:00 in the evening. The governor's office denies this. Assemblyman Ron Kim joining the program once again. Mr. Kim, good to have you back again. We're going to be with you in just one moment. But first we want to bring in Bryan Llenas with the update on all of this live from New York for us. Hi, Bryan.
BRYAN LLENAS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Well, look, New York State Democratic leaders in the assembly are reportedly getting ready to move to strip the emergency pandemic powers away from Governor Andrew Cuomo and it's an effort that's been led by Democratic Assemblyman Ron Kim, who accuses Governor Cuomo of abusing his power of obstruction of justice for purposely withholding nursing home death toll data for months from state lawmakers and the public because of fear of political consequences.
Now, Kim was in the private meeting where Cuomo's top aide, Melissa DeRosa, admitted this and he believes withholding the data kept the state from understanding the full extent of the crisis and it costs lives. The FBI and U.S. Attorney in Brooklyn are now reportedly investigating well yesterday, Governor Cuomo dismissed Kim and then attacked his integrity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): My office, more than me, has had a long and hostile relationship with Assemblyman Ron Kim. He has a meeting last week with other legislators and members of my staff. On the tape at the meeting, he says positive things. There's then a story that moves in the New York Post where he says the exact opposite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LLENAS: Blindsided, Kim then revealed that Cuomo called him last week in a loud angry voice and threatened to destroy his career if he didn't back down on his claims of a cover up. Today, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio blasted Cuomo and defended Kim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: That's a sad thing to say, Mika, but that's classic Andrew Cuomo. A lot of people in New York State have received those phone calls. You know, the bullying is nothing new. I believe Ron Kim, and it's very, very sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DE BLASIO: Cuomo's office says Kim is lying and the Governor denies any cover up. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Bryan Llenas, thank you very much, Bryan. Here now in a Fox Exclusive, Democrat New York Assemblyman Ron Kim, whose uncle, a veteran died in a nursing home after battling COVID-19. Mr. Kim, thank you for coming back to the program. We appreciate it. Can you explain to us, you said you were at home around 8:00 about to give your kids a bath and you and your wife and the phone rings and the governors on the other line, what does he say to you?
RON KIM (D), NEW YORK ASSEMBLYMAN: Well, the first words that came out of his mouth was asking me if I were an honorable man. And he continued to yell and let me know that I haven't seen my, his wrath and his anger. I'm sorry, my daughter. Thanks. Thanks.
MACCALLUM: It's OK.
KIM: Sorry.
MACCALLUM: No problem.
KIM: That he will, you know, the next day that he can call up, go out tomorrow and start telling the world about how bad of a person I am and pretty much ruin and finish my career and my livelihood. And he also said, you know, he's been biting his tongue for months about me.
MACCALLUM: Why would that be? Even before all this happened, why would that be?
KIM: I don't know. I mean, I mean, I think it was all just part of a ploy, in retrospect, and, you know, to pressure me and scare me into issuing a statement. That night, he specifically said, don't do this tonight, not tomorrow, which is to lie about what I heard in the meeting. Saying, you know, he actually asked me and belittled me and said, are you a lawyer? And I said, I'm not then you, you obviously -- Sweetie, I'm sorry, Sweetie, sweetie. Hazel, please, baby. Sorry. Thanks, baby. I'm sorry.
MACCALLUM: It's OK. It's a Zoom world that we all live in now. It's quite all right. So, you know, he says he didn't threaten you. His, his staff said: "Mr. Kim is lying about his conversation with Governor Cuomo Thursday night. I know, because I was one of the three people in the room and the phone call occurred at no time did anyone threaten to destroy anyone with their wrath nor engage in any cover up." What do you say to them?
KIM: Yes, I mean, his team every day, they defend different versions of the facts and truths. But as the Chair of the Asian Committee and lawmakers like me, you know, we are constantly pursuing the singular truth behind what happened in our nursing homes. And the truth is, the Governor allowed his top donors to dictate policies, writing business-friendly policies, like legal immunity for nursing homes that we talked about. And he orders the state government to cover up life and death information, and took away our, ability, the lawmakers, our ability to legislate and change the outcome of this pandemic.
MACCALLUM: So, you're saying that he was, and I just want to go back, I know we spoke about this last time. But you say there was a financial interest that was part of this? Can you explain that to everybody, what his motivation was?
KIM: There was a legal immunity provision that the governor put it into a budget that most people did not even know about. I voted against it, many of us did. He only passed by one vote last year on that budget. It's giving legal immunity. A get out of jail free card for some of the worst nursing executives in the state of New York.
And record show that he received close to $1.25 million for last several, several months leading up to a pandemic from the same industry who bragged about writing the bill. They sent out a press release on April 3rd, that we got it done. This is the immunity that we deserve. This is the gold standard for the entire country.
MACCALLUM: So, you're saying that he, you know, essentially, they moved these patients from the hospitals into the nursing homes, and then they gave the nursing homes cover for whatever might happen there. So, these families would not be able to sue to say that their loved ones had been mistreated. They basically, they had to be hands off according to this legislation, correct?
KIM: Correct. And if we had the real data, Martha, imagine if we had the real information, we would have been able to repeal that toxic immunity right away. That is the point. And that is the real reason. We believe that there was a cover up of the information, because they were listening to the business interest behind nursing homes. So, 65 percent of nursing homes are for profits in the state of New York.
So, they are driven by quarterly profits, not saving people's lives. But when you give them that kind of legal immunity, they're not spending the money. They're not doing everything possible to hire staff and buy PPE, and give them that card. And if I had the data, my colleagues and I would have fought to repeal that provision.
MACCALLUM: Do you think he hangs on to the governorship?
KIM: You know, I don't want to -- I know, this whole thing has turned to about the governor and my, you know, experience with them. But as a lawmaker, I'm still focused on policies. Even today, if they call me and say I want to work on these policies, you know, and undo all the mistakes that they've made, I will be there in an hour to work with them, and that's my job. Others can go, you know, investigate and do all the things necessary to hold them accountable. But right now, I still want to get it right. There's still people waiting in the nursing homes that didn't have any protection.
MACCALLUM: And Bill de Blasio, the Mayor, backed up your account just you know not familiar with your specific account but saying that didn't surprise me at all that he's heard a lot of that kind of bullying from the Governor. So, I hope you'll come back and keep us posted. And I also want to talk to some of these heads of these nursing homes and learn more about their policy and the immunity and how that that impacted their decision making process in the course of all of this. Assemblyman Kim, thank you so much. Good to have you here. Say hi to Hazel.
KIM: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: All right. So, the White House now chiming in on the heels of a hot debate on Capitol Hill as the issue of reparations returns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BURGESS OWENS (R-UT): It is impractical and a non-starter for us United States government to pay reparations. It is also unfair and heartless to give Black Americans the hope that this is a reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Kim Klacik and Richard Fowler next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: America has a history of 200 years of slavery. People aren't starting out on the same base in terms of their ability to succeed, and so we have got to recognize that and give people the, a lift up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you are for some type --
HARRIS: Yes, I am. Yes, I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Then-Candidate Kamala Harris backing reparations for the descendants of slaves. And now, the issue is getting its first serious consideration under the Biden Harris administration through a bill that was introduced by Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, and it was debated in the House watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: Now more than ever, the facts and circumstances facing our nation demonstrate the importance of HR-40, and the necessity of placing our nation on the path to reparative Justice.
OWENS: Reparation is not the way to write our country's wrong. If we're sincere about repaying Black Americans for a loss, let's give us back, give us back our history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Kimberly Klacik joins us now, she is the President of Red Renaissance; and Richard Fowler, Senior Fellow at the New Leaders Council and Fox News Contributor, good to have both of you with us today. You know, Richard, let me start with you. You hear the back and forth, and I guess the question is, you know, is slavery in America the reason that we have racial disparities today? Or is it is it coming from something else?
RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I definitely think that slavery is the reason why we have racial disparities today. And I think it's really important for us to look back at history, Martha, and see what we can learn. And here's what we have, here's what we do know. In 1988, Ronald Reagan passed the law allocating $1.6 billion to Japanese Americans in reparations, because they were internment camps. They were in internment camps during World War II that was for one war, right? That wasn't for 200 years of slavery.
That wasn't for Jim Crow. That was just for one war. What HR-40 does is, it doesn't cut checks to Black Americans. What it says is, let's study the ideal of reparations, let's study the economic impact of enslavement does it have? Does it have precursors? Does it have impact in today's society? And what are the economic outcomes of that? And what should we do about it as a nation and I don't understand why we can't pull up the rug and actually have a conversation and do a study about the impact of enslavement in America?
MACCALLUM: I don't know about you, but when I hear that administration is going to do a study, you know, to me, that's like, OK, well, we'll talk about it later. You know, it's because it's just sort of an appeasement move to say, we're going to do a study, maybe I'm wrong, maybe this will actually lead to something. But that seems to be where it is right now. Kimberly, you know, the same question to you. Are the issues that the racial issues that we have in this country? Do they go back to slavery? Or, or is it something, something else that is more evident, or more the reason for what we see today?
KIMBERLY KLACIK, PRESIDENT OF RED RENAISSANCE: Well, I agree with Richard, you have to look at history here. I mean, let's be honest, slavery happened across the world, and it was tragic. But we have to look at what happened after the fact. You know, first, you have to determine first, who pays for what, right. And a 13 states that joined the Confederacy, you had 28 percent of Black Americans in those states that actually owned black people as well.
They were slave owners, then you had the Cherokee Indians and other Indian tribes that also old Black people. And so, when you look at the numbers, today, you only find five percent of white people that are generationally connected to slavery. So, are you asking that five percent to take on that burden? And then secondly, you have to prove the fact that slavery is the reason that some black people are struggling today, and others are not. Like Richard and myself, we don't live below the poverty line, but back in the 1940s, you had 80 percent of black people living below the poverty line.
But you got to the 1960s, you only had 47 percent, living below the poverty line, and we were able to make that jump without reparations. So, you have to really look at what's going on here, because in 1965, when they introduced the welfare state, I think that's what is to blame for the problem that we see today. When you ask the black woman to marry the government, rather than marrying the father of her children, we started to see the decline. And I think it is a broken family structure and the poor education system, in my opinion.
MACCALLUM: For sure there's a lot there, go ahead and respond.
FOWLER: There's definitely a lot there to unpack. But I think it's really important, like Kim said, to go back in history, and if Ronald Reagan in 1988, could do it for the Japanese Americans after one war, less than a decade worth of time. And I think it's important for us as a country to say, what is the real impact of enslavement? The idea that in the 1865, we said, you're free, and you could go, and we didn't deal with the roots of slavery, the idea that you had no culture, no identity.
MACCALLUM: But what about the argument that Kimberly makes? I just want to interject one of the things that she said head on, which is how do you figure out who actually has to do that, right? You've got this smaller percentage of people who had any connection to the families that actually did that, you know, why should families who had no connection to that whatsoever have to pay for what happened with what their ancestors did a long, long time ago?
FOWLER: That's a great question, Martha. And in 1865, General Sherman had the answer. He said he wanted to allocate confiscated land, from traders, to slaves. And one year that was reversed. So, I think we would the place to start is, where was that confiscated land? What's the value of that confiscated land? And how do we reallocate the value of that land to the American people saying the government made the decision to take that land away after a government --
MACCALLUM: And then it was over, it was overwhelmed as you say. All right, it's a big topic. Richard and Kimberly, thank you very much. Good to have both of you with us today. Thanks, guys. All right, so go ahead and dig into the video archives here at Fox finds my interview with Rush Limbaugh, one of the interviews that we did together. This one was 14 years ago. I hope --
1530
MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Thanks, guys. All right, so ahead, a dig into the video archives here at Fox, finds my interview with Rush Limbaugh, one of the interviews that we did together. This one was 14 years ago. I hope you'll stick around to see that it was a quite an interesting afternoon. And coming up next, Trump voters as the former president reemerges, do they want him back?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Breaking this afternoon, Dallas police confirming two officers were shot earlier today. Police Chief Eddie Garcia tweeting, "We've had two officers shot responding to a shooting call, prayers up please." The department later confirming one officer was taken to a local hospital and treated for his injuries. Both are said to be in stable condition at this hour.
And the former President Donald Trump slowly reemerging a bit this week, calling on Republicans to ditch Mitch McConnell, promising to support primary candidates who will "make America great again" and remembering his friend, Rush Limbaugh. But when it comes to Trump's political future, a sampling of a more than more than 1,000 people by Quinnipiac, this particular poll is, revealed that Americans are split on whether he should be able to hold office again. Fifty-five percent saying no according to that measure.
So right now, we invited back two voters who we spoke with throughout the campaign of 2020, both of whom in the end supported President Trump. Christopher Formoso is a Finance Manager from Miami and Colleen is a stay at home mom from Cleveland. Great to have both of you with us today.
So yes, I guess it's a simple question, Colleen, and I'll start with you. You know, given everything that has happened over the last few months since the election, would you want the former president to run for president again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, absolutely. I like what he stood for. I didn't vote for him first time around but somewhere in the middle, I decided to start following just to see what he was about. And I really particularly like his fight for human trafficking. That is absolutely what sealed the deal for me.
I am a mom of three young children and the fact that we had a president that was willing to stand up and speak about it. He spoke about it. I would watch the coronavirus, his briefings faithfully. He'd always talk about his fight against human trafficking in the end. And, you know, amongst many things, he brought up our economy like gas prices were down. He's done a lot, and that is what drew my attention to him. And I would absolutely vote for him again. He did a fantastic job.
MACCALLUM: OK. Christopher, as you look back over the months since the election, a lot has happened. Did it change your feelings at all about President Trump?
CHRISTOPHER FORMOSO, TRUMP VOTER: Not really. I still love what Trump did during his presidency, from policy standpoint, though. From his behaviors and the fact that he lost the election, I feel it's time to move on from Trump political standpoint. We have great guys like Dan Crenshaw, my governor, Ron DeSantis, those are the type of guys that I see as leaders of the Republican Party and who I would like to see run in 2024.
MACCALLUM: So, Matt Gaetz agrees with you, the congressman from Florida. Here's what he had to say about "if not Trump, then who" that question. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): What Ron DeSantis didn't say, which is the truth, is that the Biden folks know that if Donald Trump is not the candidate in 2024, the leader of our movement will be Ron DeSantis. He is a strong potential presidential candidate in 2024. The Biden team knows that and so they're trying to somehow cast aspersions on the Florida experience. Because you know what, throughout America, there's a lot of Florida envy right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: A lot of Florida envy right now. Let me just ask you, back to you for a second, Christopher. You know, when you listen to that, you say you would support Ron DeSantis for governor. You know, what do you do about the fact that President Trump has said that he wants to get involved in some of these 2022 Senate races, that he wants to try to primary, people who maybe didn't line up with him even in his own party. What do you think about that?
FORMOSO: I hope that Trump -- you can say that on the sidelines, maybe room for certain guys. I would like for him to promote Ron DeSantis. He's done an amazing job as governor. Schools are open. My kids are back in school. I'm so (inaudible). And it worries me how so many kids in the country can't go back to school. It's sickening. But now, I hope Trump stays at a sideline, just promotes other people to be running for office, not himself.
MACCALLUM: All right. We'll check back in with you both. Thank you so much for being here today. Colleen and Christopher, good to see you again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Thanks, guys. So when we come back, an interview that I did with Rush Limbaugh more than a decade ago, and his response to this personal question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: When I told people that I was doing this interview with you, a couple of them said, you know, I'll never forget the day that Rush came back from his experience in rehab. And what it was like listening to him, very strong, you know, man, humbled by this experience. And I'm curious how all of that colors who you are today? How did it change you?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Breaking right now, our moral and public health imperative, that is what DHS says it's fulfilling as it begins to vaccinate a limited number of ICE detainees. ICE releasing a statement a short time ago, explaining that it is up to each state to decide when detainees are vaccinated as part of their overall plan. The push to vaccinate undocumented immigrants has come under fire most prominently from White House Minority Whip Steve Scalise, who calls it a "slap in the face to Americans."
And it is often said politics is perception, a phrase that may be getting some news today after a journalist tweeted this photo of Texas Senator Ted Cruz boarding a flight to Cancun yesterday, as its takeoff Jacob pummeled by a snowstorm that has left millions without power and over 20 people have lost their lives in this horrific situation in Texas.
So now, the senator, a short time ago said, with school canceled for the week our girls asked to take a trip with friends. Wanting to be a good dad, I flew down with them last night and I'm flying back this afternoon. He said he's in constant communication with local leaders regarding the storm. Among those criticizing crews, the Lincoln Project, the anti-Trump group took some time away from battling an enormous scandal involving sexual harassment to take a dig at the senator, so back to business at least for a moment for the Lincoln Project.
And the controversy around the group and calls to shut down, those calls continued today. Let's get the latest from our correspondent who's been all over the story. Gillian Turner, joining us from Washington. Hi, Gillian.
GILLIAN TURNER, FOX CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. So the Lincoln Project's leadership is now acknowledging really for the first time the string of crises that it's facing. They're putting out their real first PR effort to address these allegations of sexual misconduct against John Weaver and their mounting financial troubles. In a new statement they say, "We've been operating like a campaign and we know that we now have to put in place some organizational structures and processes to continue our evolution."
Responding to reports that management has spent tens of millions of dollars and siphoned off huge sums to shadow firms operated by the group's co- founders. They say they'll put together "a stewardship report for our donors that will break down expenditures so that our donors understand how we spent their contributions."
This though, might not be quite enough for former employees who are claiming the leadership should knew about dozens of sexual harassment allegations for months, but stayed silent, allegedly allowing John Weaver pretty much unfettered access to young men.
A statement from former employees reads, if the Lincoln Project's leadership knew Weaver was a serial predator in March, but continued to place interns recommended by Weaver in the spring and summer, the Lincoln Project knowingly put some of us and our LGBTQ colleagues in danger. A former executive director with the Project, Sarah Lenti, agrees she says leadership knew about allegations a year ago, but stifled them in order to continue raking in millions of dollars in donations to fight President Trump.
So today, Martha, the Lincoln Project in the statement also says they feel really good about where they're headed in 2021, and they're continuing to take in a lot of money. But top political operatives now including our own Karl Rove are predicting quite clearly that the boom times are over for the Lincoln Project. Maybe the whole business is going to shutter quite soon, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Good coverage. Gillian, thank you so much.
TURNER: Thanks.
MACCALLUM: Gillian Turner in Washington. So joining me now for the debut edition of a new segment called "Wise Words," from the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, Deputy Editor Dan Henninger, Columnist and Editorial Board Member Bill McGurn and Columnist Jason Riley, also a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Gentlemen, great to have all of you with us today.
Let's do a quick around the horn on whether or not the Lincoln Project survives. And then, I want to talk to you all about Rush Limbaugh. Dan, your thoughts?
DAN HENNINGER, DEPUTY EDITOR, WALL STREET JOURNAL EDITORIAL PAGE: I think it'll probably survive, maybe on less money. But, you know, their politics has become a multi-million dollar industry. There is so much money sloshing around out there. We see the amounts raised in campaigns these days. And the Lincoln Project apparently managed to raise about $85 million.
But this is an industry without a lot of accountability. And obviously, much more was needed at the Lincoln Project. So, it is hardly shocking that this sort of thing would occur when there's so much money coursing through its coffers.
MACCALLUM: Bill, one of the things that jumped out at me and the statement that they put out today was that they said, we have to stop treating this like a campaign. And I couldn't help but think, you know, so is that how you handle a campaign with, you know, trying to figure out where the money is going and covering up potentially for some of these sexual harassment charges?
BILL MCGURN, COLUMNIST, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, I thought this is all about campaigns. I mean, it was about denying Donald Trump presidency and going after some other Republican senators that it didn't like. I agree with that, look, there's so much money that they raised, and there's still millions left that will probably go on in some form, but I think it's very diminished. And even without the scandal, I'm not sure how it would have survived in a post-Trump war.
You know, they need Donald Trump in a way to continue going. And once he was gone, really the need for the Lincoln Project, I think, diminish.
MACCALLUM: Yes. He was their raison d'etre. Jason, your thoughts.
JASON RILEY, COLUMNIST, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes. Just to pick up on what Bill was saying, I think this is like any number of organizations that achieve their objectives, and now they're searching for relevance and purpose. And while that process is taking place, you're seeing a lot of infighting and finger pointing, and corruption, frankly.
And, you know, I don't know what the Lincoln Project stands for anymore. Increasingly, it's hard to distinguish them from any liberal political organization, in which case at least I'd like some truth in advertising.
MACCALLUM: All right. I want to get your thoughts on Rush Limbaugh. And I want to start because, you know, yesterday, I mean, and deservedly and fittingly, it was, you know, a lot of reminiscing about Rush's moments on the radio and his different appearances and who he is as a man. But there's also just a lot of attacks flying all over the place, on social media where that's, you know, sort of par for the course in a lot of ways.
But I want to play some of this reaction to his death from the other networks. And I want to get your reaction to, you know, the other side of the attacks that he weathered all those years. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFF BENNETT, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: The Rush Limbaugh show quickly became known for its extreme conservative slant, and Limbaugh's, at times, racist and bigoted commentary.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: What I heard was a guy who took white Americans out there in the hinterlands, and fed them of narrative of you're the victim.
AL FRANKEN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, listenership of 20 million people. He spewed lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Those people out there in the hinterlands. You know how they are across the middle of America. Jason, let me start with you. Your thoughts.
RILEY: Well, I always thought Rush is very entertaining, and that's what I found so appealing about him. I listened to him when I was in college in the early '90s, on the way to and from campus in my car. And, you know, this was a time of surging political correctness and multiculturalism, and identity politics. And Rush was very politically incorrect, and he had a field day going after the liberal extremists.
And I was always amused that they got so upset with this one guy. They had ABC and CBS, and NBC and NPR and, yet, Rush Limbaugh had to go down. And then, they spent 30 years trying to take him down and I always found that curious.
MACCALLUM: Bill?
MCGURN: Yes. I think Rush accepted that if you stand for something, people are going to try to tear you down. I first met him when I was at National Review in the early '90s, when he was starting out. And, you know, he was funny. He used to say, I don't demand equal time, I am equal time. And he was just brilliant at his craft. I mean, he dominated radio for about a third of the life of that the industry has been around.
MACCALLUM: That's true.
MCGURN: And I remember when the liberals were trying to start an alternative to Rush Limbaugh, it just told me it would fail because he said they didn't understand the people and the humor. He said the humor wasn't about sneering about people. He said for the liberals, he said they are the entertainment show. I think he was just a genius --
MACCALLUM: All right. I want to play a quick sound bite, if I could, from this interview that we did over a decade ago. It was on the personal side of his own struggles. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You know, what do you say to people who, you know, are not among the 20 million people out there who listened to you all the time? And who hear phrases like that and say, gee, you know, that's pretty pompous. What do you say about that?
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK HOST: I don't care. I do my program for the audience. And it's building the talent on loan from God, I actually mean. I think I'm blessed by God. Cutting edge, I am. I'm leading a movement, leading a broadcast revolution on AM radio. I'm very confident about myself and I don't mind telling people of the things I like about myself, and I'm not -- I don't believe in false humility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Dan?
HENNINGER: Rush was blessed, and let me explain one way in which he was indeed blessed. He's thought to have been mainly a culture warrior, fighting as his critics were just suggesting because they are subsumed with the culture wars. But Rush Limbaugh was able also, Martha, to talk about things like tax policy or deregulation, supply side taxes. He was very interested in economy that was growing for everybody.
His gift is blessing, which is that he was able to explain ideas like that to anybody. He was an every man and he explained it in a way that anyone could understand. And that's why it developed in this such of an enormous, powerful movement.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, gentlemen. Great to have you here. We'll do a lot more of that in the coming days as we remember Rush Limbaugh. Be sure to catch -- thank you all.
Be sure to catch Limbaugh's legacy and exclusive collection of shows and specials. This is now streaming on Fox Nation. We're also going to make the interview that I did with him available as well. And up next, the moment we have been waiting for, the Mars rover prepares to land in the most terrifying seven minutes that NASA has seen in quite a while. They expect a successful landing when we come right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So right now, while all of this is happening on Earth, NASA is landing its latest rover on Mars. Perseverance is much more sophisticated than any of the other rovers, complete with a helicopter that will become the first craft to fly on the Red Planet. Can you imagine this, capturing images of the Martian surface. Correspondent Phil Keating live in Miami on this great assignment today on the mission. Hi, Phil.
PHIL KEATING, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Touchdown has just been confirmed and it's a celebration out in Pasadena, California. It's at Jet Propulsion Laboratories Mission Control Room, which was on pins and needles all day following this every step of the way.
But the spacecraft was sending a heartbeat tone, so they knew it was on track, telemetry attitude, everything was going great. And the seven minutes of terror just expired, and now everybody is waiting for the first image, which I'm told will be a low resolution image from the Martian surface, probably a landscape shot. And then all of the great high resolution images will be coming in over the next days, weeks and a couple of years.
The rover launched back in July from Kennedy Space Center in Florida, and it's on track. Well, it landed 300 million miles over seven months. And NASA is calling it the final descent, that seven minutes of terror. That's when it went through Mars's atmosphere, 2,800 degrees burning on that heat shield. Coming in to 12,000 miles an hour and then it slowed down to a giant parachute.
Landing crane with reverse thrusters, and then it dropped down to a gentle two miles an hour. And again, they just confirmed that touchdown did in fact happen and it appears everything went smoothly. And that this rover, Perseverance, is going to be in great shape for an estimated two year to 10 year mission. It's equipped with 19 cameras and two microphones so that we will be able to not only see Mars, but you will also be able to hear what it's like to be on Mars.
It targeted landing in just a little crater which they used to be a lake bed, so they're really hoping to core out and finally get some definitive proof that microbial life once existed on the Red Planet. Martha, exciting day.
MACCALLUM: Three hundred million miles away, that's a number that's hard to wrap your brain around.
KEATING: Yes.
MACCALLUM: It's astonishing, what an achievement. Phil, thank you so much.
KEATING: Yes.
MACCALLUM: Tomorrow we'll take another look at my 2007 interview with Rush Limbaugh as we remember him. That's "The Story." We'll see you back here tomorrow, everybody. Thanks so much.
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